1 00:00:16,37 --> 00:00:20,18 My name is Christine Christman I'm the executive director of the water and then 2 00:00:20,19 --> 00:00:26,04 arrange members may my team and I have the honor of protecting Grand Traverse Bay 3 00:00:26,05 --> 00:00:30,25 and its watershed and all of the water that flows into it so this means that we 4 00:00:30,26 --> 00:00:30,77 work on 5 00:00:30,78 --> 00:00:38,83 a local level to protect the water that we all swim in fishin boat in. And 6 00:00:39,11 --> 00:00:43,80 all the water that flows need the ground as well so these efforts really require us 7 00:00:43,81 --> 00:00:47,86 to stay on top of threats to clean water and as 8 00:00:47,87 --> 00:00:52,18 a result of testing that was recently done at Blair and in response to 9 00:00:52,19 --> 00:00:56,68 a lot of citizen concerns and questions that we've been getting we decided to hold 10 00:00:56,69 --> 00:01:02,55 this community forum to provide information to our community about efforts that are 11 00:01:02,56 --> 00:01:07,87 happening both locally and throughout the state we wouldn't be here tonight without 12 00:01:07,88 --> 00:01:12,85 the support of our sponsors so I want to make sure everybody knows who they are our 13 00:01:12,86 --> 00:01:19,16 present in sponsors include Bay Books global remediation Technology Inc the Great 14 00:01:19,17 --> 00:01:23,75 Lakes Environmental Center and the League of Women Voters of women our county 15 00:01:24,45 --> 00:01:31,11 thank our 16 00:01:31,12 --> 00:01:36,28 supporting sponsors include the northern Michigan Environmental Action Council 17 00:01:36,60 --> 00:01:41,17 Northwestern Michigan college's fresh water studies program and S.O.S. 18 00:01:41,18 --> 00:01:48,16 Analytical. Thank you if 19 00:01:48,17 --> 00:01:52,26 you haven't already they have information in the back and so make sure that you 20 00:01:52,27 --> 00:01:52,53 take 21 00:01:52,54 --> 00:01:56,14 a minute to go out and learn more about the organizations that are working really 22 00:01:56,15 --> 00:02:00,04 hard on issues like peace and other things so 23 00:02:00,08 --> 00:02:03,68 a few things to let everybody know up north Media Center is here recording 24 00:02:03,69 --> 00:02:09,10 tonight's event so you can go to up north Media dot org to see tonight's recording 25 00:02:09,11 --> 00:02:09,72 as well as 26 00:02:09,73 --> 00:02:13,23 a collection of other community events as they have it most likely will get posted 27 00:02:13,24 --> 00:02:13,48 within 28 00:02:13,49 --> 00:02:18,70 a week and will end the evening with an opportunity to ask our panelists questions 29 00:02:18,74 --> 00:02:23,46 so as we go through the presentation if you have questions keep them in mind jot 30 00:02:23,47 --> 00:02:27,01 them down and we'll have opportunities at the end for everybody's questions to get 31 00:02:27,02 --> 00:02:32,01 answers so now I'll turn it over to Morgan Springer the news director and reporter 32 00:02:32,02 --> 00:02:35,60 at Interlochen Public Radio Morgan has been with I.P.R. 33 00:02:35,61 --> 00:02:41,21 Since June 2015 and her work on the series irredeemable and Michigan juvenile 34 00:02:41,22 --> 00:02:41,99 lifers has won 35 00:02:42,00 --> 00:02:50,16 a National Award for Best Series welcome Morgan thank 36 00:02:50,17 --> 00:02:54,38 you Christine and thank you everyone for being here. There was 37 00:02:54,39 --> 00:02:59,07 a recent report that came out from the Environmental Working Group it's out of D.C. 38 00:02:59,40 --> 00:03:05,31 And what the report said is that Michigan has the most known sites of contamination 39 00:03:05,32 --> 00:03:05,70 which is 40 00:03:05,71 --> 00:03:10,98 a serious issue on the other side of the coin of course is that Michigan was the 41 00:03:10,99 --> 00:03:12,66 1st state to form 42 00:03:12,67 --> 00:03:17,45 a task force and actually test municipal school and tribal water system so we 43 00:03:17,46 --> 00:03:18,95 actually know where 44 00:03:18,96 --> 00:03:23,92 a lot of the contamination sites are and can do work to address it so tonight's 45 00:03:23,93 --> 00:03:25,84 speakers are going to talk about what P. 46 00:03:25,85 --> 00:03:29,96 Fast are how to address the contamination and talk 47 00:03:29,97 --> 00:03:35,04 a little bit about the local sites here. As Christine mentioned please just write 48 00:03:35,05 --> 00:03:36,93 down your questions so that you're ready in the Q. 49 00:03:36,94 --> 00:03:42,72 And A section to ask those questions our 1st speaker is going to be. 50 00:03:43,11 --> 00:03:48,87 Steve Sliwa Steve is the executive director of the Michigan pee fast action 51 00:03:48,91 --> 00:03:54,51 response team or am part and part was as I mentioned the 1st pee fast task force in 52 00:03:54,52 --> 00:03:54,93 the U.S. 53 00:03:54,94 --> 00:04:01,54 And it's launched in 2017 and Steve has been part of part since 20 named teams 54 00:04:01,55 --> 00:04:06,35 executive director in February and he's been working for state government for 32 55 00:04:06,36 --> 00:04:12,18 years before I am part c lad to waste management and radiological Protection 56 00:04:12,19 --> 00:04:16,79 Division and the state's Department of Environmental Great Lakes and energy 57 00:04:16,83 --> 00:04:20,83 formerly known as city Q. So please welcome Steve 58 00:04:22,16 --> 00:04:27,05 thank. 59 00:04:35,56 --> 00:04:37,36 You very much you are to. 60 00:04:42,51 --> 00:04:42,94 Be here. 61 00:04:57,02 --> 00:05:00,43 So I wanted to do this. First. 62 00:05:04,01 --> 00:05:09,41 Before they. Were why we were concerned. 63 00:05:11,35 --> 00:05:13,31 So these. 64 00:05:18,37 --> 00:05:24,92 Organs when they. Were ready to serve the life of the 65 00:05:25,24 --> 00:05:26,48 service the white water. 66 00:05:35,79 --> 00:05:42,68 And the. So who are watching further so her or 67 00:05:43,53 --> 00:05:50,52 us is not right in saying that but we bought some things we say 68 00:05:50,73 --> 00:05:56,69 he gave us in the Wes And so this is just to show you the there are 69 00:05:56,70 --> 00:06:01,65 a number of different ones that we're talking about was it. 70 00:06:03,49 --> 00:06:05,46 Different priorities we don't know 71 00:06:05,47 --> 00:06:12,20 a lot of all the we're focused on really about. Wars This is what 72 00:06:12,21 --> 00:06:18,59 they're. The West of those you probably know most of. Those they've been around 73 00:06:18,60 --> 00:06:25,09 long as you are actually out of circulation. And space 74 00:06:25,36 --> 00:06:31,99 and there are replacement or in. Your best one to replace the imagery 75 00:06:32,65 --> 00:06:38,94 of things and being. It's easier to say probably what. 76 00:06:41,68 --> 00:06:47,68 It is to go through the unit. Where they are medical procedures. 77 00:06:48,78 --> 00:06:53,14 It's firefighting foals so after. 78 00:06:56,94 --> 00:07:01,11 So we're moving service well among one another he uses just 79 00:07:01,12 --> 00:07:07,86 a minute or 2 they are really strong our bond which means they don't 80 00:07:07,87 --> 00:07:14,48 regard the man fire and. Even with the in our 81 00:07:14,61 --> 00:07:20,85 shoes in the tissues the other that enables. All this all this is 82 00:07:20,86 --> 00:07:27,80 a work. Letter in any 83 00:07:28,39 --> 00:07:32,07 number. Of years. 84 00:07:36,94 --> 00:07:43,79 But again you know. You're literature about and 85 00:07:44,06 --> 00:07:45,67 there's really not 86 00:07:45,68 --> 00:07:52,30 a really really structure or yet because these are really really burgeoning isn't 87 00:07:52,31 --> 00:07:58,57 it. I'm like this here because it is 88 00:07:58,58 --> 00:08:05,20 a consumer. Really broad skill which helps us to illustrate the 89 00:08:05,21 --> 00:08:11,61 problem with the fast is that we're certainly cycling them through our egos this 90 00:08:12,40 --> 00:08:13,31 way and for you see 91 00:08:13,32 --> 00:08:21,17 a very little best example at. Least in the. Industrial 92 00:08:21,18 --> 00:08:27,97 Age is all that at some point is past its useful life and it is up only handle 93 00:08:28,34 --> 00:08:32,02 it we know that. We are looking for 94 00:08:32,27 --> 00:08:38,00 a slowly of what's in that way if they didn't go in through each it 95 00:08:38,20 --> 00:08:44,22 a way of the elite is of that are these really the. Legion goes to the public 96 00:08:44,42 --> 00:08:51,34 always water treatment plant which is it is an. Either or he lives 97 00:08:51,35 --> 00:08:57,60 in the BIOS or goes into waste goes. Into service for 98 00:08:58,05 --> 00:09:03,73 where the end of it as oh him hand up and he listen through our Beatles as 99 00:09:03,74 --> 00:09:07,06 a network really. The. 100 00:09:08,62 --> 00:09:15,40 1017 you know Michigan is you know I think maybe it is it does for the 101 00:09:15,41 --> 00:09:21,39 nation move very bold moves in no. There's this is something is going to require 102 00:09:21,43 --> 00:09:27,77 all state agencies to deal with the environment. Resources 103 00:09:28,22 --> 00:09:34,75 Human Services even need partners in the worlds and 104 00:09:35,22 --> 00:09:37,68 the burden of military veterans affairs that has 105 00:09:37,69 --> 00:09:39,58 a lot of this ill it is with an hammer 106 00:09:39,59 --> 00:09:45,62 a in the city fire and why is it fair to work 107 00:09:45,63 --> 00:09:47,03 together as 108 00:09:47,04 --> 00:09:53,98 a teen to understand better what is going on with the environment in it 109 00:09:53,99 --> 00:10:00,51 I relate this example here of Britain downside of this is the oldie 110 00:10:00,85 --> 00:10:07,50 I noticed he 32 years it's big government we're the one in our the agencies are. In 111 00:10:07,51 --> 00:10:11,84 action to get the phone call when I know you don't have it will change for me and 112 00:10:12,03 --> 00:10:13,53 we're working together as 113 00:10:13,54 --> 00:10:20,35 a. We're trying to be as transparent as we possibly can which 114 00:10:20,36 --> 00:10:26,82 means we throw everything that we. Will lead an organized fashion to find it 115 00:10:27,19 --> 00:10:32,77 and with as many stakeholders this weekend whether it's biggest read citizens' 116 00:10:32,78 --> 00:10:39,05 groups you know we blow out of communities lake this to. You because we've got 117 00:10:39,06 --> 00:10:45,79 a story we want to hear back or do you want your. One of the 118 00:10:46,06 --> 00:10:51,89 2 highway here is ever her has the ability to was invited. 119 00:10:53,15 --> 00:10:57,43 In so we got it on low that are running and we're trying to develop one right now 120 00:10:57,80 --> 00:11:03,36 one day when the evening I'll be on some of this is a conference with 121 00:11:03,37 --> 00:11:08,13 a number of people from some of the unions around the state and then to be another 122 00:11:08,14 --> 00:11:09,66 129th of 123 00:11:09,67 --> 00:11:16,08 a save all of us more pieces by. Her So the we can better 124 00:11:16,09 --> 00:11:22,78 understand I want more mission and services and ensure that the end aren't in the 125 00:11:22,94 --> 00:11:29,75 future. Or our scale just decided by site by site. That we've been 126 00:11:29,76 --> 00:11:36,50 using Sol our. So I like to say that 127 00:11:36,51 --> 00:11:37,41 Michigan has 128 00:11:37,46 --> 00:11:44,36 a managed main others untrue because we have standers that 129 00:11:44,37 --> 00:11:51,29 are today and the related state is huge and we actually have an forcible surface 130 00:11:51,30 --> 00:11:54,86 water action standard today and the Oregon is the one in 131 00:11:54,87 --> 00:12:01,76 a state as one and the standers. They enable us to drive 132 00:12:01,77 --> 00:12:08,69 investigations and. Across the state much more rapidly than most other cities do 133 00:12:08,84 --> 00:12:14,16 you know. It is in our Mena base that on any kind. 134 00:12:15,60 --> 00:12:22,21 Recommendation of 70 parts only and drinking water. We've been using it we 135 00:12:22,22 --> 00:12:24,95 don't actually hammer I'm C.E.O. 136 00:12:24,99 --> 00:12:31,86 Today and in the process it into her waters. More routine basis will live 137 00:12:31,87 --> 00:12:38,04 up to the end. So all yes Michigan and is actually 138 00:12:38,05 --> 00:12:44,72 49 situs the fishes place that the Empire members said these are the 139 00:12:44,73 --> 00:12:51,32 ones to remove all vision because they have concentrations in brown water. And the 140 00:12:51,53 --> 00:12:52,14 Raiders were 141 00:12:52,15 --> 00:12:58,65 a standard and we are looking at hundreds or. Bases 142 00:12:58,96 --> 00:13:05,23 and these are. All neat upsides all industrial slaves. 143 00:13:07,23 --> 00:13:12,70 Didn't even military installations in places where we've had you know paint fires 144 00:13:12,75 --> 00:13:19,46 and they've used them all and eventually It's got into groundwater. Though the 145 00:13:19,47 --> 00:13:26,17 border they do know though is when we eat it inside it and him an Asian in brown 146 00:13:26,18 --> 00:13:32,90 water 1st thing we do is we look our sectors down green which. 147 00:13:33,91 --> 00:13:40,23 Room right residential Well that could be and by this source and we've read much 148 00:13:40,34 --> 00:13:46,42 heat we go out start testing those wells in the newer way to to identify if there 149 00:13:46,43 --> 00:13:52,87 is any in the. Reach from that source of contaminate and as soon as we 150 00:13:52,88 --> 00:13:59,35 find that somebody has us in there drinking water or private residence what. 151 00:14:00,41 --> 00:14:05,72 Did it lead to what are resigned to the rigidity even if the grasses Frazier's the 152 00:14:05,73 --> 00:14:11,91 and see that the arts were going like. It was we're still investigating we don't 153 00:14:11,92 --> 00:14:18,85 know that. TIME So the good news is that there's nobody around these say is 154 00:14:18,86 --> 00:14:25,56 that it has been handed water. You know they did the 155 00:14:25,57 --> 00:14:32,17 evaluation of our water resources programs in this area been thrown the 156 00:14:32,55 --> 00:14:37,77 routine testing our waters is just to see what other animals rather we've been 157 00:14:37,78 --> 00:14:44,44 doing for peace ease Murray we did he that is to that end we 158 00:14:44,67 --> 00:14:47,40 and to finish testing where we have 159 00:14:47,80 --> 00:14:52,90 a fish studies to see you know what are the next time I don't eat was in there 160 00:14:52,94 --> 00:14:59,38 we've also added to the in the program and that is business. 161 00:15:00,68 --> 00:15:07,49 And identifying sources of. Industrial use your own leaders 162 00:15:08,07 --> 00:15:13,36 in the move out of you the F one thousands of birds in there is no Muslim or 163 00:15:14,04 --> 00:15:20,42 Buddhist or as soon as we identify WE ARE didn't do this do that or used to be use 164 00:15:20,43 --> 00:15:26,61 it out. But we got it right and that's what is in the. Law. 165 00:15:29,02 --> 00:15:34,99 All should go back home we also were you know fighting flow on our waters you know 166 00:15:35,08 --> 00:15:41,99 trying to understand. Why those goals are being generated. Ended. 167 00:15:43,50 --> 00:15:50,39 While we're still trying to address. So he 168 00:15:50,40 --> 00:15:54,81 knows that areas using technology to its fullest The answer is yes this is in the 169 00:15:54,82 --> 00:16:01,61 RID OF BOTH will begin with the drone often in us where we want to 170 00:16:01,62 --> 00:16:07,86 find we're in the ground water receding into an Atlantic. This is one way of. 171 00:16:10,88 --> 00:16:13,55 We're also doing a lot of studies and moaning 172 00:16:13,56 --> 00:16:17,54 a lot of research is this it has allowed me don't know. 173 00:16:21,37 --> 00:16:27,89 When people ask you to borrow. It when you bought it you know or are 174 00:16:28,69 --> 00:16:35,09 in this state do what's the impact on farm deals on soil ground water surface water 175 00:16:35,09 --> 00:16:39,11 . And so we had in the 1st of the nation study 176 00:16:39,83 --> 00:16:46,10 a one wastewater treatment plants. And see if we did better understand what 177 00:16:46,62 --> 00:16:51,60 there is already. Landfill these. 178 00:16:53,48 --> 00:16:59,91 Technologies the options are very limited right now you know to get the 179 00:17:00,60 --> 00:17:03,20 bridge in waterways waters you really only have 180 00:17:03,21 --> 00:17:09,17 a few options for it to be to partner. Residence reverse osmosis 181 00:17:09,62 --> 00:17:15,75 auctions and so tomorrow morning it will be that down to East Lansing and we're 182 00:17:15,76 --> 00:17:22,13 hosting you. Know. People around the country say you know what's 183 00:17:22,95 --> 00:17:29,52 being done and what can we do the old rooster Michigan needs to address. As we head 184 00:17:29,64 --> 00:17:35,84 here and that we hold leads to if technologies conference leader of this year are 185 00:17:35,88 --> 00:17:41,45 really in over 3 to Michigan a better image than 186 00:17:41,50 --> 00:17:47,10 a nation. Really. 187 00:17:48,66 --> 00:17:54,58 Michigan has tested all of this of the water supplies 188 00:17:55,32 --> 00:18:01,80 and 1st in the nation to do that's under suppliers who testified last year in and 189 00:18:02,00 --> 00:18:08,96 you know then information alone really. Understand what's. In our 190 00:18:09,70 --> 00:18:16,30 inner heating water and what they were firing in the results for the testing moon 191 00:18:16,34 --> 00:18:23,33 or what we do next with we are to test them on. Really good news though 1st 192 00:18:23,34 --> 00:18:24,60 of all we did find 193 00:18:24,61 --> 00:18:31,43 a couple of communities who had high concentrations of current was one in knew 194 00:18:31,44 --> 00:18:38,41 that our on do not drink the water. With the one they were switched over with. 195 00:18:40,01 --> 00:18:46,95 So all good news bad news and good news is that we are 100 who are drinking water. 196 00:18:49,63 --> 00:18:49,94 As 197 00:18:50,16 --> 00:18:56,70 a way. 90 percent of our water supplies are not that 198 00:18:57,34 --> 00:19:04,05 so that's good news in only in others. But it was so 199 00:19:04,06 --> 00:19:10,36 low the scientists is really now saying go worry about that and all all. 200 00:19:11,42 --> 00:19:17,27 Eyes for maybe you know the monitoring but you don't need to go in there. Because 201 00:19:17,28 --> 00:19:23,58 that might be. Back. In only. 2 supplies 202 00:19:23,62 --> 00:19:29,41 actually. The wires so they were 203 00:19:29,42 --> 00:19:36,05 a little higher then 10 but less than that actually And so this is doing 204 00:19:36,06 --> 00:19:42,60 horribly monitoring in. Next year's see if the various regions chain and we're. 205 00:19:43,63 --> 00:19:49,54 Rivers. You know get these do go over there you know post or what are your options 206 00:19:49,91 --> 00:19:55,76 you know he did he. Had treatment you know so if you know you hear all of the 207 00:19:55,77 --> 00:20:02,13 museum and will sources of area reviews are where. So 208 00:20:02,62 --> 00:20:09,62 then you got all this on loses in wire the Governor is it over she did 209 00:20:09,66 --> 00:20:16,06 we need to of not enforceable waters the airs that you know we're not getting 210 00:20:16,07 --> 00:20:22,70 anything the federal nor enough and so he let me other states 211 00:20:22,88 --> 00:20:28,08 whether it's me Jersey New York her Mont Massachusetts Maine or out there are who 212 00:20:28,65 --> 00:20:31,54 have come up with used. The N. 213 00:20:31,55 --> 00:20:36,66 Word she's Muslim good one students all right I'm wrong because we've already got 214 00:20:36,67 --> 00:20:43,37 a lot of information the other states we know what's in our water supply. So she's 215 00:20:43,38 --> 00:20:49,17 Alyssa to them is no one has asked him her to point 216 00:20:49,18 --> 00:20:52,26 a science advisory work through to come up with 217 00:20:52,27 --> 00:20:59,09 a basic values or down houses they think we should be regulated in our drinking 218 00:20:59,10 --> 00:21:05,13 water. In this at Les let's initiate rulemaking process 219 00:21:05,48 --> 00:21:11,41 and start or developing new rules that will encourage those standards with other 220 00:21:11,42 --> 00:21:17,40 considerations Libby's ability than. Now. Over 221 00:21:17,41 --> 00:21:24,31 a month in for school. Well one of the reasons that 222 00:21:24,32 --> 00:21:29,12 she said let's get as team scientists together to the virus machine this is just 223 00:21:29,16 --> 00:21:35,74 one of the. Way This I did with his other hill those 31 of the geology 224 00:21:35,75 --> 00:21:41,98 isn't enough what. Is around what's happening across the country The 225 00:21:42,02 --> 00:21:48,64 Lovells that you see under $97.00 you are. Somebody who are in each one of those 226 00:21:49,45 --> 00:21:56,28 as it needs to be and so we've had outside scientists experts in their field to get 227 00:21:56,29 --> 00:22:03,01 behind the methodology of the studies that all these other states and are. Put out 228 00:22:03,02 --> 00:22:08,82 over the past day and come up with make sense for the mission was. 229 00:22:11,99 --> 00:22:15,78 And this is fine here really the issue was the fact that we have 230 00:22:15,79 --> 00:22:20,83 a Science of Finding we were proved that is working today they were pointed it will 231 00:22:20,87 --> 00:22:25,98 and they will and there we were in it will be released publicly to the ever heard 232 00:22:25,99 --> 00:22:32,87 members on June 27th along with it are. In good 233 00:22:32,92 --> 00:22:39,50 Me rules out of this process by then legislative rule making process 234 00:22:39,70 --> 00:22:44,67 a lot of that is out of our control we're going to be and he is basically on 235 00:22:44,68 --> 00:22:51,39 schedule. Really which is the know how hard is not 236 00:22:51,54 --> 00:22:51,84 just 237 00:22:51,85 --> 00:22:59,44 a bunch. Of us aren't part of all you know maybe. One 238 00:22:59,45 --> 00:23:04,65 of these late meeting him maybe fish or in is 239 00:23:04,66 --> 00:23:11,08 a one year area down. Don't need to be here with. Mark 240 00:23:11,60 --> 00:23:16,14 it's not you don't want to be the 1st of the nation with that stuff because it was 241 00:23:16,15 --> 00:23:22,56 a sweet love. For eating and him and his wife. Service 242 00:23:22,57 --> 00:23:23,57 waterfall rather 243 00:23:23,82 --> 00:23:30,43 a little bit in the news lately is Michigan's method changing we don't 244 00:23:30,50 --> 00:23:37,43 eat the whole I know that and I mean on the phone or today not name but again with 245 00:23:37,43 --> 00:23:43,42 . What we know is ingestion is the main and server you don't want 246 00:23:43,87 --> 00:23:50,74 even earth is the old one. So you know. We talk 247 00:23:50,75 --> 00:23:57,63 a little bit of. All the words or that means the even the 248 00:23:57,64 --> 00:24:03,03 one of the water that's not where that's not what it is basically the incidental 249 00:24:03,07 --> 00:24:04,63 Jeff you would be 250 00:24:04,64 --> 00:24:10,92 a add weight to give that aura. You know the message is not to not recreate visions 251 00:24:10,93 --> 00:24:17,76 wires. And he. You know with cars and others 252 00:24:17,77 --> 00:24:24,68 Daisy it is also trying to study. What is happening to people who are exposed 253 00:24:24,69 --> 00:24:30,61 to higher concentrations in the risk of. Letting him down Earth so they're starting 254 00:24:30,62 --> 00:24:37,44 to do the thing and eventually the databases you can associate any it will increase 255 00:24:37,44 --> 00:24:44,10 . With. US if you're going to do that 256 00:24:44,71 --> 00:24:51,31 with the pollution prevention side less avoid creating more space and this is one 257 00:24:51,32 --> 00:24:58,32 way we can do of all our fire. Fire is leadership has gone out and 258 00:24:58,33 --> 00:25:04,70 checked with. Our crossed state ready and found they have 37000 259 00:25:04,71 --> 00:25:11,19 gallons of the concentrate in their. Mid in they never were used to 260 00:25:11,55 --> 00:25:18,23 and so here arises of the elections will. Get legislators or 261 00:25:18,51 --> 00:25:21,15 to do that as year and we should go. 262 00:25:26,95 --> 00:25:33,92 For those easy. Words in your words. They have 263 00:25:33,93 --> 00:25:38,98 to stop and we were there and so it was 264 00:25:38,99 --> 00:25:44,16 a fresh In one of the issues that. They have to train with every year and. 265 00:25:46,04 --> 00:25:52,89 So Urban has. Got agreement that the real home run with 266 00:25:53,15 --> 00:25:53,80 the how to use 267 00:25:53,81 --> 00:26:01,10 a bridge in the Woods Hole. And wave. And so 268 00:26:01,10 --> 00:26:06,03 . It is not as though her were really you know your. 269 00:26:08,49 --> 00:26:14,09 Me. 270 00:26:15,81 --> 00:26:22,27 Kid he sees it then next. Meaner and deviousness see here 271 00:26:22,28 --> 00:26:26,80 environmental policy analyst in the miss you Department of Environmental replace 272 00:26:27,60 --> 00:26:33,24 the mediation and development division is the point. Here for me now. 273 00:26:34,52 --> 00:26:37,38 Those are the. D.D.D. 274 00:26:37,39 --> 00:26:39,77 Had not as easy time do you have 275 00:26:39,78 --> 00:26:45,89 a little say clearing house at that steely with Chance to him and if. 276 00:26:47,52 --> 00:26:53,81 So what I'd like to do now I just click and. It goes away I. 277 00:26:55,97 --> 00:26:56,74 Want to bring my how. 278 00:27:15,59 --> 00:27:21,04 I see. OK now we got the technology down all right. 279 00:27:22,89 --> 00:27:25,07 So what I'd like to do is take 280 00:27:25,08 --> 00:27:31,51 a little detour before beginning my presentation and on this detour into level shed 281 00:27:31,52 --> 00:27:38,40 a little light on on where this presentation is going in and so I 282 00:27:38,41 --> 00:27:38,53 have 283 00:27:38,54 --> 00:27:42,39 a lot of friends that are environmental activists very concerned about the environment 284 00:27:43,10 --> 00:27:47,11 but none of them are actually working as an environmental science and scientists 285 00:27:47,12 --> 00:27:51,45 are in this industry in what I started to notice a couple years ago 286 00:27:52,27 --> 00:27:58,44 a lot of them were getting really excited about news articles about the environment 287 00:27:59,21 --> 00:28:05,65 and it just kind of baffled me when I was thinking in my mind you know why are they 288 00:28:05,66 --> 00:28:12,02 getting so excited Why don't they know about this extensive environmental 289 00:28:12,26 --> 00:28:18,92 infrastructure that we have in place that protects us. For example the eco alone 290 00:28:18,93 --> 00:28:24,21 has hundreds of environmental scientists engine ears toxicologists geologists 291 00:28:24,29 --> 00:28:28,18 a couple of my comrades are back there geologists. You know we have all these 292 00:28:28,19 --> 00:28:31,85 people in addition to that we have the E.P.A. 293 00:28:31,86 --> 00:28:37,20 The Centers for Disease Control and several universities conducting environmental 294 00:28:37,21 --> 00:28:43,100 research and if there's an emergency once again eagle would respond along 295 00:28:44,01 --> 00:28:49,48 with the local fire departments the Coast Guard the National Guard and there's also 296 00:28:49,49 --> 00:28:54,10 a wide array of private response firms available. 297 00:28:57,11 --> 00:29:01,76 When it's not about it little bit more and I realized that they didn't know about 298 00:29:01,77 --> 00:29:07,48 it this infrastructure and so what I'm hoping in this presentation is to give you 299 00:29:07,49 --> 00:29:10,04 a little bit of a glance into the amp 300 00:29:10,05 --> 00:29:15,66 a structure that we have in place. And what I'm going to do is start with the 301 00:29:16,12 --> 00:29:22,93 aqueous film foaming aqueous film forming foam Yeah tons 302 00:29:23,26 --> 00:29:27,71 of easy to get tongue tied OK It's called a triple F. 303 00:29:27,72 --> 00:29:31,87 And that's all I'm going to call it from here on out. So it was developed in the 304 00:29:31,88 --> 00:29:37,31 1960 S. And most a triple F. Currently in stock contain P. 305 00:29:37,32 --> 00:29:41,60 Fast this applies to phones used in the past and being sold today 306 00:29:44,14 --> 00:29:46,82 a triple F. Is used by all the armed U.S. 307 00:29:46,83 --> 00:29:52,80 Forces NATO and fire departments all around the world. A triple F. 308 00:29:52,81 --> 00:29:57,02 Contains $40.00 surfactants which is a P. 309 00:29:57,03 --> 00:30:00,85 Fast ass. And these give the a triple F. 310 00:30:00,86 --> 00:30:05,68 a Low surface tension which allows them to spread out and this is very effective in 311 00:30:05,68 --> 00:30:11,61 . Fighting flammable liquid fires so the P. 312 00:30:11,62 --> 00:30:15,91 Fastest origin piece assets were originally produced by 3 M. 313 00:30:15,95 --> 00:30:21,96 And were based on the whole. For floral acting self self an 8 P. 314 00:30:21,97 --> 00:30:28,57 Fots chemistry. Alphabet soup but in 20013 M. 315 00:30:28,58 --> 00:30:33,54 Cease production of that compound due to the discovery that 316 00:30:33,55 --> 00:30:37,95 a wide number of people in the US were were ingesting this and it was affecting 317 00:30:37,96 --> 00:30:42,24 them so at that time other companies began to produce other formulations of 318 00:30:42,25 --> 00:30:42,89 a Triple S. 319 00:30:42,89 --> 00:30:49,63 . OK now we're going to go to the tires retreading 5 this is over in Blair 320 00:30:49,64 --> 00:30:55,50 township near Grand. This this image was 321 00:30:56,14 --> 00:30:57,87 a screen shot from an E.P. 322 00:30:57,88 --> 00:31:03,73 A video that was produced about this player. And I recommend going online and 323 00:31:03,74 --> 00:31:04,87 looking for it because it's really 324 00:31:04,88 --> 00:31:10,64 a good video and what I want to point out is this is one of those large excavators 325 00:31:10,65 --> 00:31:17,39 that you see on construction sites. You know. This is the 326 00:31:17,40 --> 00:31:23,94 pile of tires and of course that's the flame but this was one big flame. 327 00:31:26,07 --> 00:31:28,26 Carl's retreading it was 328 00:31:28,27 --> 00:31:35,24 a tire recycling facility and Ron on December 29th 2005 fires started 329 00:31:35,25 --> 00:31:39,84 in one of the shredding machines and it ignited the scrap tires that were piled up 330 00:31:39,85 --> 00:31:46,24 as high as 30 feet it burned for several weeks Blair elementary and several homes 331 00:31:46,25 --> 00:31:53,04 were evacuated. So the Michigan Department of 332 00:31:53,05 --> 00:31:57,73 Great Lakes and energy environment and energy are still getting used to seeing this 333 00:31:58,40 --> 00:32:01,38 formally of the new and the E.P.A. 334 00:32:01,39 --> 00:32:07,56 Both mobilized technical and scientific assistance teams firefighters tried using 335 00:32:07,57 --> 00:32:08,42 the triple F. 336 00:32:08,43 --> 00:32:13,12 To extinguish the flame but it didn't work. So what they eventually came up with is 337 00:32:13,47 --> 00:32:18,35 to go behind the flame in the pile of tires and dig huge crater and then they use 338 00:32:18,36 --> 00:32:23,56 this heavy equipment to push the burning tires in to the hole and they buried it 339 00:32:23,57 --> 00:32:29,47 and that finally put it out. So from 340 00:32:29,48 --> 00:32:36,46 1906 to 1999 Carl's tried to. Clean up the site but they just didn't 341 00:32:36,47 --> 00:32:42,05 have the resources and in 2000 and the E.Q. 342 00:32:42,25 --> 00:32:48,64 To Carole's and in October 1980 judgment was passed against the firm and they 343 00:32:48,68 --> 00:32:54,69 holding the responsible for the cleanup. So in 1909 they abandoned the property and 344 00:32:54,70 --> 00:33:00,54 filed for bankruptcy so from that time on the D.E.Q. And the E.P.A. 345 00:33:00,58 --> 00:33:00,99 Conducted 346 00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:07,100 a cleanup that ran until 200-3650 tons of scrap tires were 347 00:33:08,01 --> 00:33:11,69 removed and we found 4 feet of pirate lit 348 00:33:11,70 --> 00:33:18,47 a coil on the ground water was actually floating down at the bottom 349 00:33:18,72 --> 00:33:25,00 and was about 25000 gallons that were removed. OK after the clean up 350 00:33:25,68 --> 00:33:27,68 groundwater was monitored by the D.E.Q. 351 00:33:27,69 --> 00:33:34,65 Intel before 2003 to 2008 to assure that contamination was completely taken care of 352 00:33:37,18 --> 00:33:39,50 after it came to light that a triple F. 353 00:33:40,48 --> 00:33:41,61 Contained teeth as 354 00:33:42,38 --> 00:33:48,01 a set of groundwater samples was collected downgrading from the Carl's site from 355 00:33:48,02 --> 00:33:53,23 temporary monitoring wells and this was done in spring of 2018 at that and at that 356 00:33:53,24 --> 00:33:55,59 time that was my project this is 357 00:33:55,60 --> 00:34:00,39 a picture of one of our environmental contractors using what's called 358 00:34:00,40 --> 00:34:02,09 a geo pro with kind of 359 00:34:02,10 --> 00:34:06,95 a neat little track vehicle that can get out into rough areas and this operators 360 00:34:06,96 --> 00:34:09,47 drilling a hole. Taking 361 00:34:09,48 --> 00:34:15,12 a water sample and then the filling the hole back in and moving on. OK now I'm 362 00:34:15,13 --> 00:34:20,16 going to leave her here. OK OK So this is 363 00:34:20,17 --> 00:34:24,54 a view of the site here's the old corals retreading site we've got groundwater 364 00:34:24,55 --> 00:34:28,45 flowing to the southeast. Menards kind of 365 00:34:28,46 --> 00:34:34,32 a mile out of this way and you know just to give your perspective and then these. 366 00:34:36,30 --> 00:34:40,57 These are the points where we took those temporary samples architect yet samples 367 00:34:40,58 --> 00:34:45,85 from temporary Wells OK going to back up or go aside just 368 00:34:45,86 --> 00:34:52,83 a little bit. Steve talked about the standard at 70 parts per trillion. 369 00:34:54,31 --> 00:34:55,16 And I just want to spend 370 00:34:55,17 --> 00:35:00,87 a moment with that parts per trillion What the heck is that it's somewhat like 371 00:35:00,94 --> 00:35:06,60 taking an eyedropper and dropping liquid into an Olympic sized swimming pool about 372 00:35:06,61 --> 00:35:07,52 that so it's 373 00:35:07,53 --> 00:35:13,88 a very small number. And there's another character coming on scene here. 374 00:35:15,11 --> 00:35:17,34 It's the P. Fault her for 375 00:35:17,35 --> 00:35:22,92 a walk tonic at that so the 70 parts per trillion is based on any combination of 376 00:35:22,93 --> 00:35:29,87 the P 4 was. Plus the P 5 plus. And I'll 377 00:35:29,88 --> 00:35:31,11 give you an example here 378 00:35:31,12 --> 00:35:35,89 a moment OK One of the samples that we collected from one of those temporary well 379 00:35:36,75 --> 00:35:41,72 found people out at 60 parts per trillion P. 380 00:35:41,73 --> 00:35:46,67 Phosphorus that same sample was 260 parts per trillion. 381 00:35:48,86 --> 00:35:52,93 So the total was $320.00 there was another sample that had 382 00:35:52,94 --> 00:35:59,60 a combination adding up to $161.00 parts per trillion so results for both of 383 00:35:59,61 --> 00:36:05,79 these were over the cleanup criteria so based on that 384 00:36:06,94 --> 00:36:08,80 we decided to take a look at 385 00:36:08,81 --> 00:36:14,58 a couple of drinking water wells in the area we tested Blair elementary school and 386 00:36:14,59 --> 00:36:15,05 then there was 387 00:36:15,06 --> 00:36:19,30 a residence kind of right close to where we were sampling so we sampled both those 388 00:36:19,31 --> 00:36:25,94 well. The school sample came back totally non detector anything everything that we 389 00:36:25,95 --> 00:36:31,59 tested for that was really good news now the resident had 6 parts per trillion 390 00:36:32,30 --> 00:36:37,35 total peace asked with no detections for the people or the people US Those are the 391 00:36:37,36 --> 00:36:40,47 2 guys that we're really worried about right now people and P. 392 00:36:40,48 --> 00:36:47,39 Fuss and it was still pretty low. We decided though to be extra 393 00:36:47,69 --> 00:36:54,62 cautious at this point and we. Were started out sampling residential wells 394 00:36:54,66 --> 00:36:58,57 on the east side of Sawyer road and we called study area 395 00:37:01,51 --> 00:37:05,66 so this is another top down view we've got our ground water flowing Here's the 396 00:37:05,67 --> 00:37:11,50 Carrolls site flowing Here's the residential area and this is where we collected 397 00:37:11,51 --> 00:37:16,79 the samples from as their private wells we did that in August and July and August 398 00:37:16,86 --> 00:37:21,86 2013. P. 399 00:37:21,87 --> 00:37:27,88 Fast compounds other than peaceful and people were detected in 6 samples at really 400 00:37:27,89 --> 00:37:32,02 low concentrations. P. 4 and or P. 401 00:37:32,03 --> 00:37:38,59 5 were detected in only 3 of the wells the highest combination was just $8.00 parts 402 00:37:38,60 --> 00:37:44,87 per trillion so pretty low well under there 70 parts that we're looking for. Out of 403 00:37:45,02 --> 00:37:50,76 an abundance of caution the grantor health department distributed bottled water and 404 00:37:50,77 --> 00:37:56,94 filters to homes were anything was detected in October of that year or 405 00:37:56,95 --> 00:38:00,99 2018 the health department and Blair township posted 406 00:38:01,00 --> 00:38:06,00 a public engagement event where people could ask questions kind of like this. About 407 00:38:06,01 --> 00:38:12,67 25 people from the area study area showed up and we had local media attend as well 408 00:38:14,17 --> 00:38:18,96 all right so going back to what all this data means. The number I'm in distribution 409 00:38:18,97 --> 00:38:24,03 of residential drinking water wells in the study area demonstrated that we had 410 00:38:24,04 --> 00:38:30,41 really low levels across the area but well below the 70 parts per trillion. 411 00:38:32,62 --> 00:38:39,47 So what do you do. All right so to address to assess long 412 00:38:39,48 --> 00:38:43,100 term trends because that was just one set of sample in the summer spring and summer 413 00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:47,60 . We decided to install 414 00:38:47,61 --> 00:38:53,32 a set of 7 minute permanent mama tree wells between the current site and the 415 00:38:53,33 --> 00:38:56,99 residential area and we're going to sample it quarterly for 416 00:38:56,100 --> 00:39:01,27 a 2 year period so we're going to get seasonal variations temperature and all that 417 00:39:01,28 --> 00:39:06,06 sort of thing the wells are installed in March and the 1st round of samples was 418 00:39:06,07 --> 00:39:12,40 collected in April they take about 6 weeks to process in the lab and so we should 419 00:39:12,41 --> 00:39:18,77 be getting less reports any time now. This is just another over 420 00:39:19,12 --> 00:39:25,51 head. So this is where we installed the permanent Wells Here's carols this is 421 00:39:25,52 --> 00:39:28,95 pretty close to where we took the 1st set of samples and then here's the study area 422 00:39:28,99 --> 00:39:33,19 down here and player township. And this is 423 00:39:33,20 --> 00:39:35,50 a picture of one of our environment contractors using 424 00:39:35,51 --> 00:39:41,01 a larger deal probe to install the permanent wells and that was in March and I 425 00:39:41,02 --> 00:39:42,23 think that yeah it. 426 00:39:46,79 --> 00:39:53,36 Thank. You. Thank you Dave 427 00:39:53,52 --> 00:40:00,08 and our final speaker you can give it to Dan Yeah thanks our final speaker is Dan. 428 00:40:01,58 --> 00:40:05,19 He works at the Grand Traverse County Health Department as their environmental 429 00:40:05,20 --> 00:40:09,99 health director he has his master's in environmental sciences from the University 430 00:40:10,00 --> 00:40:14,87 of Michigan and he's going to talk more about the response in player township 431 00:40:15,67 --> 00:40:22,13 Thanks Dan. All right thank you and good even. 432 00:40:23,59 --> 00:40:27,49 Well as Dave was talking about kind of the nuts and bolts of what was going on 433 00:40:27,50 --> 00:40:33,06 there and the discovery of us and the eagle I'm sorry. 434 00:40:34,56 --> 00:40:36,30 Still it really is going to take 435 00:40:36,31 --> 00:40:42,46 a long time. Anyways Eagles response to the sites and 436 00:40:42,76 --> 00:40:46,22 basically. I've got some of the 437 00:40:46,26 --> 00:40:49,36 a little bit of overlap of what would it was talking about but kind of give you 438 00:40:49,37 --> 00:40:55,37 a perspective of how the health department. Our response and in 439 00:40:55,38 --> 00:41:00,46 a situation like this so you know as you can see up here I mean that kind of was 440 00:41:00,50 --> 00:41:06,29 the same picture that Dave had of the tire fire and so. This is just 441 00:41:06,30 --> 00:41:09,45 a picture of the school that they put up there and just to kind of give you 442 00:41:09,46 --> 00:41:14,87 a little breakdown. So just really quick Dave already kind of went through 443 00:41:14,88 --> 00:41:21,39 a lot of this stuff but we were notified in June late June of 2018 that there was 444 00:41:21,40 --> 00:41:28,03 that. Compounds be fast compounds were found on the site due to the tire fire and 445 00:41:28,04 --> 00:41:32,97 the use of the foam and at that point you know I you know being the environment 446 00:41:32,98 --> 00:41:37,72 alter Archer I was kind of paying attention what was going on statewide with P. 447 00:41:37,73 --> 00:41:41,54 Fast but you know I wasn't really thinking that I was like OK I wonder if this is 448 00:41:41,55 --> 00:41:44,54 going to you know be an issue here in trying to you know think about potential 449 00:41:44,55 --> 00:41:50,21 sites and you know we have the airport which you know wordsmith and and you know 450 00:41:50,22 --> 00:41:54,10 some of the other military airports and what I can't Gramling have had 451 00:41:54,11 --> 00:41:56,09 a lot of problems but we have 452 00:41:56,10 --> 00:42:00,56 a lot of city water infrastructure around those places not really any wells that I 453 00:42:00,62 --> 00:42:04,21 that I know of that there are some there are very few and far between so I'm 454 00:42:04,22 --> 00:42:06,56 thinking OK well you know that's good from 455 00:42:06,57 --> 00:42:10,15 a public health standpoint so if it is there you know at least you know people are 456 00:42:10,19 --> 00:42:14,85 protected they have good drinking water and then of course the state was going 457 00:42:14,86 --> 00:42:18,20 through their state wide surveillance of community water supplies so things were 458 00:42:18,21 --> 00:42:22,75 happening we were you know doing surveillance and then and then we find this out 459 00:42:22,76 --> 00:42:26,72 and the 1st thing I thought is oh my god that elementary schools right there you 460 00:42:26,73 --> 00:42:33,09 know this is this is really bad so thankfully the school was not attacked you know 461 00:42:33,10 --> 00:42:37,19 that was like the best news I could have received and you know I'd yeah dance 462 00:42:37,20 --> 00:42:43,10 a little jig in my office right so. But a residence 463 00:42:43,16 --> 00:42:48,43 a residential Well residential We found 6 parts per trillion of fast so I'm 464 00:42:48,44 --> 00:42:53,38 thinking OK well it's moved off site you know now what do we do so as in our work 465 00:42:53,39 --> 00:42:59,48 with Department of Health and Human Services in Eagle talking about this trying to 466 00:42:59,49 --> 00:43:04,50 come up with a plan and really we kind of put a lot of thought and effort into 467 00:43:04,82 --> 00:43:10,23 a sampling plan for that area there is thankfully also municipal water in that area 468 00:43:10,24 --> 00:43:10,86 but there are still 469 00:43:10,87 --> 00:43:14,82 a lot of residential wells people that having. Connected so kind of the 1st thing 470 00:43:14,83 --> 00:43:20,31 that we had to do was consult with the township in figure out OK who is on 471 00:43:20,32 --> 00:43:21,56 a well and there's there's quite 472 00:43:21,57 --> 00:43:26,84 a number of them as you can see we had 29 wells that were sampled. 13 households 473 00:43:26,85 --> 00:43:29,86 total so it's just 474 00:43:29,87 --> 00:43:33,58 a kind of that breakdown like our relationship to health departments relationship 475 00:43:33,59 --> 00:43:33,92 and in 476 00:43:33,93 --> 00:43:40,78 a situation like this. We operate under the public health code OK and we 477 00:43:40,79 --> 00:43:46,55 all do to Nixon eagle the Private Health and Human Services definitely does but 478 00:43:46,56 --> 00:43:52,26 there's other facets that eagle operates under like the Safe Drinking Water Act So 479 00:43:52,27 --> 00:43:59,20 we all have our our kind of. Sale like what we 480 00:43:59,21 --> 00:44:05,49 do what we do well in our expertise area OK so we're working together in this area 481 00:44:05,53 --> 00:44:10,52 the Department of Health and Human Services there toxicologists they're there to 482 00:44:10,53 --> 00:44:15,29 consult with us to kind of work through these problems talk about the health 483 00:44:15,30 --> 00:44:21,82 effects things that could be concerns for citizens and really kind of drill down 484 00:44:21,83 --> 00:44:27,58 on you know what how to convey messages to people about what is being found in 485 00:44:27,59 --> 00:44:33,70 their drinking water OK And then we're there to kind of communicate that those 486 00:44:34,53 --> 00:44:39,20 that information to the people to make communicate with the media to hold meetings 487 00:44:39,21 --> 00:44:42,44 and we're doing this all in like I said partnership so there's there's 488 00:44:42,45 --> 00:44:49,16 a lot of collaboration here and then eagle of course is working on kind of the you 489 00:44:49,17 --> 00:44:55,85 know the nuts and bolts of of sample lean and. Working with the consultants 490 00:44:55,86 --> 00:45:00,06 and basically pulling all that together so they're they're gathering the data. 491 00:45:03,30 --> 00:45:07,03 So Dave I thought you're going to have the slide and I'm glad you did so I got it 492 00:45:07,04 --> 00:45:12,98 so. So this kind of shows you know these are the monitoring was 493 00:45:12,99 --> 00:45:15,23 a geo probes that found the P. 494 00:45:15,24 --> 00:45:21,97 Fast and then this is the kind of the results of the wells that we that we sampled 495 00:45:22,34 --> 00:45:27,66 in this is kind of like this is the key to the results there so we did not like 496 00:45:27,67 --> 00:45:28,76 Dave said we did not have 497 00:45:28,77 --> 00:45:35,69 a lot that had the people walk for Wes in their wells so it was low the ones that 498 00:45:35,70 --> 00:45:38,46 were found Robo and then the P. Fast total P. 499 00:45:38,47 --> 00:45:45,20 Fast was was relatively low so that's good the problem OK just to talk 500 00:45:45,21 --> 00:45:46,06 about people as 501 00:45:46,07 --> 00:45:52,71 a general in the health of facts to get more in detail with that. OK So 502 00:45:53,14 --> 00:45:53,35 there's 503 00:45:53,36 --> 00:45:58,71 a lot that's not known about us but what we do know we do know that there is 504 00:45:58,72 --> 00:46:05,33 a likely correlation between increased cholesterol decrease vaccine effectiveness 505 00:46:05,54 --> 00:46:10,85 increased risk of thyroid disease the increased risk or decreased fertility in 506 00:46:10,86 --> 00:46:16,36 women lower infant birth weights in increase in high blood pressure in pregnant 507 00:46:16,37 --> 00:46:20,35 women OK And then there also may be 508 00:46:20,36 --> 00:46:23,55 a risk of kidney testicular cancer so 509 00:46:23,59 --> 00:46:26,81 a lot of this information comes from previous studies and there was 510 00:46:26,82 --> 00:46:31,19 a huge study in the how and the how River Valley based on 511 00:46:31,20 --> 00:46:36,29 a Dupont. Clacks class action lawsuit there was 512 00:46:36,36 --> 00:46:41,02 a settlement there and probably the largest medical surveillance in the history of 513 00:46:41,03 --> 00:46:46,11 the country I think 70000 people gave blood samples and their blood was analyzed 514 00:46:46,15 --> 00:46:50,06 and there was you know just like I said one of the biggest medical surveillance 515 00:46:50,39 --> 00:46:53,18 studies in the history of our country and that is where 516 00:46:53,19 --> 00:46:58,81 a lot of this has come from amongst animal studies and you know other other studies 517 00:46:58,85 --> 00:47:03,78 that have been going on but you know obviously further research is needed I mean 518 00:47:03,79 --> 00:47:08,44 there's there's also an indication that there may be liver disease that's involved 519 00:47:08,45 --> 00:47:08,89 with P.P. 520 00:47:08,90 --> 00:47:13,48 Ass and also ulcerative colitis isn't something that's something else that's kind 521 00:47:13,49 --> 00:47:20,28 of popping up on the radar so this far as like the cancer links and 522 00:47:20,29 --> 00:47:24,24 that's the thing that people kind of like to focus on when they're asking questions 523 00:47:24,25 --> 00:47:29,87 of what not because it's scary right probably the most the key the cancer link is 524 00:47:29,88 --> 00:47:35,82 not as clear as some of the other the other issues that we're seeing up here these 525 00:47:36,13 --> 00:47:42,54 are very seem to be very clear in the data the cancer link is not so much but it's 526 00:47:42,58 --> 00:47:49,44 but it's possible. So back to the Health Department's response and 527 00:47:49,45 --> 00:47:52,79 that's kind of blurry I apologize for that but these are just kind of show 528 00:47:52,80 --> 00:47:58,58 a couple of press releases that we put out there just kind of updating the public 529 00:47:58,59 --> 00:48:03,74 updating people what's going on updating the media and as Dave said that we did 530 00:48:03,75 --> 00:48:04,23 have 531 00:48:04,69 --> 00:48:11,56 a community open house at Blair township OK And we just want to be sickly beep 532 00:48:11,62 --> 00:48:12,96 keep people informed this is kind of 533 00:48:12,97 --> 00:48:17,99 a shot of that open house there were people are welcome to come in and ask 534 00:48:18,00 --> 00:48:22,18 questions and really kind of have a one on one discussion we had 535 00:48:22,70 --> 00:48:28,11 a great partnership with Blair township we had Department of Health and Human 536 00:48:28,12 --> 00:48:34,24 Services there Eagles their grandchild was county health care and also Michigan 537 00:48:34,25 --> 00:48:38,47 State Cooperative Extension some dieticians were there because they're also worried 538 00:48:38,48 --> 00:48:43,95 about OK if we're telling people not to drink their water and we weren't telling me 539 00:48:43,96 --> 00:48:48,31 we're giving people alternate water but they're worried about nutrition and you 540 00:48:48,32 --> 00:48:51,79 know kids drinking too much pop or juice or what that so and that's 541 00:48:51,80 --> 00:48:54,73 a real concern you didn't you don't really think about that but when they contact 542 00:48:54,74 --> 00:48:57,48 me I'm like yeah that's that's a good message to give people just 543 00:48:57,49 --> 00:49:01,58 a to let him know that you know that's not that's not the route that we want to go 544 00:49:02,04 --> 00:49:07,17 in just to kind of give you an idea of what. Some of the point of use filters look 545 00:49:07,18 --> 00:49:10,96 like that were installed we were using an aqua sign 546 00:49:10,97 --> 00:49:15,35 a filter and this is the point of use that the regular faucet is still there and 547 00:49:15,36 --> 00:49:21,32 this is this is this faucet runs directly from the filter OK so I have received 548 00:49:21,33 --> 00:49:24,53 a few complaints about that because it does give 549 00:49:24,54 --> 00:49:28,22 a very small kind of pencil thin stream so if you think about it you're trying to 550 00:49:28,23 --> 00:49:28,54 fill up 551 00:49:28,55 --> 00:49:33,95 a big pot of water to boil you know noodles or something for spaghetti it's kind of 552 00:49:33,96 --> 00:49:38,89 a pain right but but that's what you know we want to make sure folks were were 553 00:49:38,90 --> 00:49:44,89 protected and that was the bottom line. You know as Dave said. This is these were 554 00:49:44,90 --> 00:49:49,46 very low numbers OK so we were using an abundance of caution and we just want to 555 00:49:49,47 --> 00:49:56,43 basically alleviate anybody's fears about about using the water in basically bias 556 00:49:56,47 --> 00:49:59,94 a little bit of time to figure this out like what are we going to do long term 557 00:50:03,34 --> 00:50:10,25 so some of the questions that came in from concerned citizens I just want to let 558 00:50:10,26 --> 00:50:13,55 you know what some of those were because you know there are some there are some 559 00:50:13,56 --> 00:50:18,11 good ones and some that I had to really kind of do some digging and get back with 560 00:50:18,12 --> 00:50:20,01 them but you know 561 00:50:20,09 --> 00:50:23,63 a lot of people asked you know are my current medical problems are they 562 00:50:23,64 --> 00:50:26,02 a result of drinking this water they are 563 00:50:26,03 --> 00:50:29,42 a result of drinking pee fast contaminated water and that's 564 00:50:29,43 --> 00:50:34,06 a great question and all I could say was Well you know possibly you know looking 565 00:50:34,07 --> 00:50:37,12 down that list of possible associations with with P. 566 00:50:37,13 --> 00:50:41,08 Fast as far as health effects if you had any of those I can't say that it's not 567 00:50:41,09 --> 00:50:45,73 from that although I could say that the water that you're drinking that was 568 00:50:45,77 --> 00:50:51,16 recently tested is very low but the other thing I can tell him is as it always men 569 00:50:51,17 --> 00:50:58,15 like that OK this fire happened 232324 years ago right so it has that level has 570 00:50:58,16 --> 00:51:05,15 that it we basically we have one data point OK soon to have more but we 571 00:51:05,16 --> 00:51:09,73 have one data point from those rather residential wells that basically tells us 572 00:51:09,74 --> 00:51:13,54 that it was there it tells us the concentration but that concentration could have 573 00:51:13,55 --> 00:51:17,75 been different 10 years ago so you know and if someone has lived there for 574 00:51:17,76 --> 00:51:21,15 a long time you know I just didn't know I don't know the answer those questions I'm 575 00:51:21,16 --> 00:51:25,93 never going to know the answer to those questions so I'm just you know wanted to be 576 00:51:25,98 --> 00:51:32,47 give them as much information as possible. And then you know one of the other 577 00:51:32,48 --> 00:51:36,88 common questions was how did their well you can why is are well contaminated I mean 578 00:51:36,89 --> 00:51:41,88 this this is always way the site is not extremely far away but it's it's fairly far 579 00:51:41,89 --> 00:51:46,99 away and some of these people there wells even though they're older night early 580 00:51:47,00 --> 00:51:51,13 1970 S. Wells there are about 100 feet OK and they go through 581 00:51:51,14 --> 00:51:55,40 a couple confining Clearly years so they want to know like well how did this happen 582 00:51:55,75 --> 00:52:02,00 well those wells because original 972 there was no requirement for gravity and what 583 00:52:02,01 --> 00:52:08,94 I mean by grouting is when wells are drilled today they you have to put 584 00:52:08,95 --> 00:52:15,24 a layer of grout around the casing of the well in that protects groundwater that 585 00:52:15,25 --> 00:52:19,36 protects your drinking water from any surface contaminants or contaminants that 586 00:52:19,37 --> 00:52:23,41 might be in the shallow groundwater from going to the casing and basically 587 00:52:23,42 --> 00:52:29,73 following the annulus the hole when the casing was driven down to the water that 588 00:52:29,74 --> 00:52:35,53 you're drinking none of those wells in 1902 were grout it OK so if there's water I 589 00:52:35,54 --> 00:52:40,78 think the Geo probes sampled water and I think where they got the big hits were 590 00:52:41,09 --> 00:52:45,39 around 35 to 40 feet somewhere in there so as 591 00:52:45,40 --> 00:52:50,66 a casing is going through that upper Aqua for in traveling down to the deeper off 592 00:52:50,67 --> 00:52:54,16 are going to play layers if that water that contain any water is hitting that 593 00:52:54,17 --> 00:53:00,34 casing and it's not crowded it can certainly travel down that casing OK in just 594 00:53:00,35 --> 00:53:03,33 emphasize how small 595 00:53:03,97 --> 00:53:10,27 a parts per trillion is I mean for to get to get into that lower aquifer it is so 596 00:53:10,28 --> 00:53:13,72 small I mean Dave mentioned a drop in a one pick 597 00:53:13,76 --> 00:53:15,78 a limp excite swimming pool and I've got 598 00:53:15,79 --> 00:53:19,52 a couple other analogies that I like to. So let's say we're taking 599 00:53:19,53 --> 00:53:24,71 a trip to the sun it's the 1st 6 inches if you're talking about one part per 600 00:53:24,72 --> 00:53:29,86 trillion in the trip to the sun I mean think about how you know ridiculously small 601 00:53:29,87 --> 00:53:36,74 that is another one is. One second in 32000 years 602 00:53:37,45 --> 00:53:43,09 that's pretty small right so you think about the potential for you know 603 00:53:43,13 --> 00:53:47,91 a large volume of this material that was applied on the ground to get into that 604 00:53:48,03 --> 00:53:52,33 that aquifer that opt for the or drinking at that minuscule level that we're 605 00:53:52,34 --> 00:53:58,61 looking at I mean it's pretty you know it's pretty probable right so. 606 00:54:01,10 --> 00:54:06,90 Another common question that I get to is I live 2 miles you know this is an example 607 00:54:06,91 --> 00:54:11,31 question but I live 2 miles or live 5 miles or or whatever I look to the west of 608 00:54:11,32 --> 00:54:15,27 Carl should I give my my well tester I live in Belair township should I get my well 609 00:54:15,28 --> 00:54:22,10 tested and you know at this time we were you know open to anybody that was near the 610 00:54:22,60 --> 00:54:27,88 study area if they called us or contacted us and they you know we talked it through 611 00:54:27,89 --> 00:54:33,75 and they were down gradient you know we could we could get them tested but really I 612 00:54:33,76 --> 00:54:37,85 would be wrong wonderful it was to the southeast if you were to the west you know 613 00:54:37,86 --> 00:54:42,76 you're not being affected by by Karl's OK the groundwater flow is in that direction 614 00:54:42,77 --> 00:54:47,20 that's where the contaminant plume is is going. So there was 615 00:54:47,21 --> 00:54:52,15 a lot of I think that was probably the most the most of the calls I got were just 616 00:54:52,16 --> 00:54:55,16 from people in the area that just want to know if they should have their wells 617 00:54:55,17 --> 00:55:01,85 tested or their well tested and it really depended on the proximity to Carl's and 618 00:55:01,86 --> 00:55:04,26 where you were if you were se 619 00:55:04,27 --> 00:55:10,64 a Carl's That was our study area that's those are the wells that we tested. Another 620 00:55:10,65 --> 00:55:15,42 good question Another common question was well even though I'm not there I just 621 00:55:15,43 --> 00:55:18,93 want to know if I have or I'm not in the study or I just want to know if I have P. 622 00:55:18,94 --> 00:55:24,06 Fasten my water you know I want to get tested how do I do that well at the time 623 00:55:24,27 --> 00:55:26,06 last summer there really wasn't 624 00:55:26,07 --> 00:55:30,69 a whole lot of options for for people to have their own tests done yet you could do 625 00:55:30,70 --> 00:55:36,78 it really expensive and I tried to basically talk people out of it and I don't 626 00:55:36,79 --> 00:55:43,42 think anybody actually did it but now as time has moved on there are more options 627 00:55:43,43 --> 00:55:47,83 and I would caution anybody in this audience or anybody watching that there are 628 00:55:47,84 --> 00:55:49,79 people saying that they that they can do 629 00:55:49,80 --> 00:55:52,83 a water test for you very inexpensively for P. 630 00:55:52,84 --> 00:55:57,74 Fast they're not using the standard method OK A lot of them are not using the 631 00:55:57,75 --> 00:56:03,42 standard method so we've got to be careful about that OK Another thing is there's 632 00:56:03,47 --> 00:56:06,91 train consultants that we're actually taking the samples so we have so many 633 00:56:06,92 --> 00:56:10,26 products that have P. 634 00:56:10,27 --> 00:56:16,74 Fastened you know who's got your tax code onsite you know. Just 635 00:56:17,35 --> 00:56:19,74 women's makeup deodorant you know there's 636 00:56:19,75 --> 00:56:23,58 a number of things that we use every day that have that have these per 40 to 637 00:56:23,59 --> 00:56:25,83 compounds and M and there is 638 00:56:25,84 --> 00:56:30,35 a very specific way to take this sample OK you can't breed that you can't wear 639 00:56:30,36 --> 00:56:33,09 deodorant you can't wear makeup you can't you know there's 640 00:56:33,13 --> 00:56:38,62 a laundry list of things you can that you can't do when you take the samples so I 641 00:56:38,63 --> 00:56:42,81 just want to caution people to you know really see if you if you really want to do 642 00:56:42,82 --> 00:56:43,54 it you have to use 643 00:56:43,55 --> 00:56:46,84 a certified lab and you really got to know what you're doing when you're when 644 00:56:46,85 --> 00:56:53,60 you're sampling and then another question that we've got you know because we are 645 00:56:53,61 --> 00:56:58,95 lucky we have municipal water supply in front of all these homes but I will say you 646 00:56:58,96 --> 00:57:03,12 know in this area the incomes are low OK people don't have 647 00:57:03,13 --> 00:57:08,01 a lot of money. Will someone pay for me to connect to the township water and that's 648 00:57:08,02 --> 00:57:14,07 something you know talking to them there are some avenues that we're looking into 649 00:57:15,51 --> 00:57:19,44 to possibly do that OK and we have some things going on right now which I want to 650 00:57:19,45 --> 00:57:25,18 talk about a little bit later so just to back up 651 00:57:25,19 --> 00:57:31,37 a little bit about about our response we decided with Department of Health and 652 00:57:31,38 --> 00:57:37,100 Human Services really is fires in our decision tree what we were going to do OK 653 00:57:38,33 --> 00:57:42,91 because we knew that we got the sample results back we knew that they were under 70 654 00:57:43,43 --> 00:57:49,90 OK we knew the levels were under 70 which is the current guideline OK but 655 00:57:51,20 --> 00:57:56,72 we wanted to be we wanted to offer an abundance of caution we wanted to alleviate 656 00:57:56,73 --> 00:58:01,94 people's fears and we wanted to be basically be able to find out if there's going 657 00:58:01,95 --> 00:58:05,67 to be any other problems with further sample and if this is going to go up is going 658 00:58:05,68 --> 00:58:11,25 to go down we don't know so we wanted to provide an alternate water source in the 659 00:58:11,26 --> 00:58:16,62 beginning we had to provide bottled water we told people not to drink their water 660 00:58:16,63 --> 00:58:23,26 and we had to provide bottled water so we contracted with Pepsi Co. And had them 661 00:58:23,27 --> 00:58:27,89 delivered rates of blanched player township hall were people they were gracious 662 00:58:27,90 --> 00:58:32,78 enough and you know which is great because we didn't have to offer staffing or 663 00:58:32,79 --> 00:58:37,04 anything for this while there are the offices were open people could come up come 664 00:58:37,05 --> 00:58:38,98 and pick up bottled water and we set up 665 00:58:39,34 --> 00:58:45,04 a voucher program we sent to her dropped off vouchers to all the affected people so 666 00:58:45,05 --> 00:58:48,84 they basically went in there you know they have their their card they could pick up 667 00:58:48,84 --> 00:58:54,52 . You know so many cases of water per week and if they needed more all they do is 668 00:58:54,53 --> 00:58:58,36 let us know and we could we can handle that. But it was 669 00:58:58,37 --> 00:59:03,95 a very successful collaboration people appreciated it and you know we basically 670 00:59:04,23 --> 00:59:11,19 were able to do that intel we could get filters install OK So on the filter side of 671 00:59:11,20 --> 00:59:13,10 things we were also able to work with 672 00:59:13,11 --> 00:59:19,61 a local company owned soft water to get them to go to all the places all the homes 673 00:59:19,62 --> 00:59:20,71 that have the P. 674 00:59:20,72 --> 00:59:25,45 Fast contaminated wells and they did they went to the homes and they installed the 675 00:59:25,46 --> 00:59:29,68 filters and they did this in a relatively quick fashion and they did 676 00:59:29,69 --> 00:59:36,58 a very good price so they're in really. Also Pepsi Co who is locating here on 677 00:59:36,59 --> 00:59:38,63 off so they did this it at 678 00:59:38,64 --> 00:59:44,28 a very very inexpensive price and they you know because they wanted to help out the 679 00:59:44,29 --> 00:59:51,12 community and we appreciated that so. And just so you know the state 680 00:59:51,13 --> 00:59:56,92 funding that was out there reimburse the cost for all of this OK all of this the 681 00:59:56,93 --> 01:00:00,77 filters bottled water all this that was going on so. 682 01:00:05,42 --> 01:00:11,24 Already pretty much talked about insulation but the Aqua Sana filter is one of the 683 01:00:11,25 --> 01:00:12,32 few N.S.F. 684 01:00:12,36 --> 01:00:18,54 Certified filters that will remove the P F O S N P F O A compounds and they do 685 01:00:18,55 --> 01:00:25,24 a really good job at it it's. Activated granular granular activated carbon and 686 01:00:25,65 --> 01:00:32,46 they remove you know 9790 percent of the compounds in the water they 687 01:00:32,47 --> 01:00:36,91 last the cartridges last for about 6 months so we give them extra cartridges and 688 01:00:36,92 --> 01:00:41,73 basically it beeps and tells you when you have to change the cartridge and we've 689 01:00:41,74 --> 01:00:41,88 had 690 01:00:41,89 --> 01:00:47,77 a few folks that know how to do it or they wanted some help so we had Owens go up 691 01:00:47,78 --> 01:00:53,89 there and change the filter form so but basically as I said before 692 01:00:54,70 --> 01:01:00,84 this is removing the exposure OK we're removing the exposure we want to basically 693 01:01:00,85 --> 01:01:02,34 buy some time to come up with 694 01:01:02,35 --> 01:01:08,98 a long term solution I think in this area we're stream of the lucky 20 years ago 695 01:01:09,03 --> 01:01:09,27 there was 696 01:01:09,28 --> 01:01:14,43 a water system that was that was put in in those folks have been pan on their tax 697 01:01:14,44 --> 01:01:20,03 rolls over that 20 years for their front footage on the property and it basically 698 01:01:20,04 --> 01:01:25,01 was paid off like last year so if anybody does you know if they were going to hook 699 01:01:25,02 --> 01:01:30,12 up the cost is really just the meter and the cost of having the contractor run the 700 01:01:30,13 --> 01:01:36,66 line from the main up the road up to the house so there's no other costs involved 701 01:01:37,48 --> 01:01:43,84 at this point although that you know it's you know anywhere between $3505000.00 so 702 01:01:43,85 --> 01:01:49,96 snuff in the SCAF that and especially for the folks that live in this area. You 703 01:01:49,97 --> 01:01:50,43 know it's 704 01:01:50,44 --> 01:01:54,88 a lot of money so this is just kind of showing you what the filter looks like these 705 01:01:54,89 --> 01:02:00,65 are the carbon filters right here the change and then again just the point of use 706 01:02:01,60 --> 01:02:07,57 salt that's installed at the sink so. So like I said the good news is everybody's 707 01:02:07,58 --> 01:02:12,95 got access to the municipal water and by the way Blair township the wells were 708 01:02:12,96 --> 01:02:19,03 tested as part of the statewide surveillance and they came back not attacked so 709 01:02:19,72 --> 01:02:23,21 that's good as well. So 710 01:02:23,22 --> 01:02:29,93 a couple of options we worked with county finance we have some revolving loan funds 711 01:02:29,94 --> 01:02:36,61 that are from community block grants that were available years ago. It was kind of 712 01:02:36,62 --> 01:02:41,59 the program was kind of defunct and working with our county finance director Dean 713 01:02:41,60 --> 01:02:48,24 bot we were able to get the funds kind of back up and running and we are 714 01:02:49,07 --> 01:02:49,72 we can offer 715 01:02:49,73 --> 01:02:54,26 a 0 percent interest loan through the Northwest community action agency with no 716 01:02:54,27 --> 01:03:00,38 payments and basically the loan gets paid back when when the house sells so there's 717 01:03:00,47 --> 01:03:06,93 about 5 households I think that are in the process of getting that going but in the 718 01:03:06,94 --> 01:03:13,64 meantime we recently became aware of. The eagle grant to pay for homes to 719 01:03:13,65 --> 01:03:17,77 connect to municipal water if they had wells that were contaminated with P. 720 01:03:17,78 --> 01:03:22,48 Fasts So we started the loans and then we had this come on so basically we we just 721 01:03:22,49 --> 01:03:22,65 had 722 01:03:22,66 --> 01:03:27,95 a meeting about this late last week and we're going for the grant with Blair township 723 01:03:27,96 --> 01:03:33,29 the township the water supply owner or operator owner I guess is the one that 724 01:03:33,30 --> 01:03:38,62 applies for it and i'm help you know we're kind of pull all together getting this 725 01:03:38,63 --> 01:03:43,36 grant application out. To see if we can get you know because it's better to get 726 01:03:43,37 --> 01:03:45,76 a grant and I have to pay it back right than 727 01:03:45,77 --> 01:03:52,31 a loan. So in the meantime the loans are just on hold and we're going to try to get 728 01:03:52,32 --> 01:03:57,18 the grand if the grandson successful the loans can still go forward but anyways 729 01:03:57,19 --> 01:04:02,19 that's where we're at right now so I believe that's all I have in this is just 730 01:04:02,20 --> 01:04:04,44 a I just threw this up here just kind of a 731 01:04:05,10 --> 01:04:07,81 a map of the water system in this area so there's 732 01:04:07,82 --> 01:04:12,68 a school and as you can see it's this is the area that we're there we're talking 733 01:04:12,69 --> 01:04:17,68 about basically. Thank you 734 01:04:17,69 --> 01:04:24,23 Thank you thank you Dan And thank you to all of our 735 01:04:24,24 --> 01:04:29,54 speakers and now it's your turn I hope people jotting down your questions you can 736 01:04:29,55 --> 01:04:34,97 come right up here and I will hold the microphone when you ask so anyone who wants 737 01:04:34,98 --> 01:04:35,41 to come up. 738 01:04:42,87 --> 01:04:49,51 Sir I can come to you so you guys can still line up their. Help our. 739 01:04:53,23 --> 01:04:59,83 First OK. Charles Weaver I'm with naming them also with the local Sierra 740 01:04:59,84 --> 01:05:06,57 Club I got one comment and one question. Into the presentations by 741 01:05:06,58 --> 01:05:13,02 Eagle and by Him part you use the the 70 parts per trillion is 742 01:05:13,03 --> 01:05:13,86 a is 743 01:05:13,87 --> 01:05:20,33 a dividing line my research says that is no longer valid and to dictate to continue 744 01:05:20,34 --> 01:05:22,47 using that is is a bit of 745 01:05:22,48 --> 01:05:28,93 a travesty what we're trying to do. Decide that question is 746 01:05:29,48 --> 01:05:36,44 with with peace in the ground water does it tend to disseminate as or 747 01:05:36,45 --> 01:05:42,75 goes further down the groundwater stream or does it does it does what goes down 748 01:05:42,76 --> 01:05:48,80 water tend to increase the further down it goes as it is accumulates or not does 749 01:05:48,81 --> 01:05:54,65 that make sense. A stark and you know. 750 01:05:55,73 --> 01:06:02,61 Day Please do. So right part asked the team of scientists 751 01:06:02,62 --> 01:06:08,06 last year what. The appropriate level should be given the E.P.A. 752 01:06:08,07 --> 01:06:13,88 70 parts per trillion should it be lower and one of the stark conclusions of their 753 01:06:13,89 --> 01:06:19,51 report was yes Michigan we need to go lower than 70 and so that was the process I 754 01:06:19,52 --> 01:06:23,77 was explaining we're going to start with drinking water and we've already assembled 755 01:06:23,88 --> 01:06:27,92 another team of scientists to look at what's happening all across the country all 756 01:06:27,93 --> 01:06:32,01 the health studies the methodology is for determining you know what the levels 757 01:06:32,02 --> 01:06:36,89 should be and they're going to be giving us numbers for not only the P.F. 758 01:06:36,90 --> 01:06:41,88 Away and P F O S We've asked them to look at all of the other contaminants that we 759 01:06:42,51 --> 01:06:48,04 analyze for there's at least 14 in the drinking water method and tell us which ones 760 01:06:48,05 --> 01:06:48,52 we should have 761 01:06:48,53 --> 01:06:52,48 a standard for and what that standard should be the health based value and then 762 01:06:52,49 --> 01:06:53,43 that will go into 763 01:06:53,44 --> 01:06:58,13 a rule making process for it and forcible drinking water standard There's only one 764 01:06:58,14 --> 01:07:02,55 state the country that handsome forcible standard today that's New Jersey and it's 765 01:07:02,56 --> 01:07:04,88 only for one of those compounds P.S.N. 766 01:07:04,89 --> 01:07:09,55 And I think it's like 13 parts per trillion So you're right the trend nationally is 767 01:07:09,56 --> 01:07:15,50 down and so and like I say the good news is we can evaluate our public water supply 768 01:07:15,51 --> 01:07:20,51 data so we know upfront what are the implications of any rule making to lower that 769 01:07:20,52 --> 01:07:26,53 standard So regarding the high to geology everybody I've talked to says that the 770 01:07:26,54 --> 01:07:31,58 SAS compounds do not behave like all of the other contaminants that we 771 01:07:31,59 --> 01:07:37,63 traditionally have been addressing in groundwater and so some of the sites that we 772 01:07:37,64 --> 01:07:39,89 are now addressing for P. 773 01:07:39,90 --> 01:07:43,45 Files contamination of already been cleaned up for things like chromium and the 774 01:07:43,46 --> 01:07:43,93 O.C.S. 775 01:07:43,94 --> 01:07:49,31 And other contaminants that we decided to add the fast to the the monitoring wells 776 01:07:49,44 --> 01:07:55,87 and lo and behold we've got it so the models that we used to to discern where the 777 01:07:55,88 --> 01:08:00,17 containment booms were going don't work is well for P 5 S. 778 01:08:00,17 --> 01:08:06,90 . Agree it just is this is the only site of work done but it doesn't behave. 779 01:08:07,73 --> 01:08:14,21 It just doesn't behave so I would be an educated guess that it doesn't 780 01:08:14,32 --> 01:08:19,46 accumulate as it sounds great but I can't tell you that with any certainty. 781 01:08:24,29 --> 01:08:28,15 Bill Bill Sigman managing director of pure water works I think it's kind of 782 01:08:28,16 --> 01:08:34,02 perspire important to put this issue in perspective this is one of many persistent 783 01:08:34,03 --> 01:08:38,95 toxins and they're persistent both in the human body and in the environment because 784 01:08:38,96 --> 01:08:44,74 there just isn't anything in nature that has the ability to break them down. Of the 785 01:08:44,75 --> 01:08:44,98 P. 786 01:08:44,99 --> 01:08:51,91 Fast that we've spoken of here there was over 15000 that were actually produced during 787 01:08:51,92 --> 01:08:58,69 that time period up into 2002 of those 15000 we've only examined 6 we have 788 01:08:58,70 --> 01:09:03,76 a long chain in short chain organic center occurring with these and they do not act 789 01:09:03,77 --> 01:09:08,61 like anything else with Sac I'd like to just say Steve you mentioned something 790 01:09:09,48 --> 01:09:15,27 presumptive remedy and why wouldn't that presumptive remedy since we have something 791 01:09:15,55 --> 01:09:21,26 that we know is able to exorbitant carbon why are we concerned about other routes 792 01:09:21,27 --> 01:09:23,27 of exposure including germ 793 01:09:23,28 --> 01:09:29,63 a logical. So Dan may want to weigh in on us 794 01:09:29,64 --> 01:09:35,49 a little bit too but so right now the primary route of exposure that's of concern 795 01:09:35,50 --> 01:09:40,56 is ingestion and that's the ingestion pathway is where we've got like the C 8 study 796 01:09:40,90 --> 01:09:46,89 that he referred to you know you can associate ingestion in blood higher blood 797 01:09:46,90 --> 01:09:52,44 serum and what that might mean for health effects and again I don't know that 798 01:09:52,45 --> 01:09:59,02 there's any risk exposure but the primary one that we're focused on right now is 799 01:09:59,06 --> 01:10:05,86 ingestion and drinking water is is primary in that. Yeah I 800 01:10:05,87 --> 01:10:10,89 would agree with that I mean I think there are some From what I've in my research 801 01:10:10,90 --> 01:10:16,35 some studies out there that are looking at. Dermal exposure but the by far the 802 01:10:16,39 --> 01:10:23,36 biggest exposures lead through either through or water and when water is high Yes 803 01:10:24,29 --> 01:10:31,18 that is the primary route and it's not. Like Steve 804 01:10:31,19 --> 01:10:37,66 talked about the biosolids on our. Planet. In even you know food 805 01:10:38,07 --> 01:10:44,87 packaging that was using. So we're getting you know in everybody 9090 806 01:10:44,88 --> 01:10:49,26 percent of blood samples that were screened across the country you know we have in 807 01:10:49,27 --> 01:10:55,91 our body 98 percent. Is just you know that classic in toxicology 808 01:10:55,92 --> 01:11:01,84 the the those in the exposure so you know hopefully most of us it's 809 01:11:01,85 --> 01:11:07,15 a very small amount but if we're exposed to contaminated drinking water or 810 01:11:07,16 --> 01:11:12,43 contaminated food then that's really what we're concerned about just one quick 811 01:11:12,44 --> 01:11:17,74 follow up when we see that foam at the edge of the river around logs and we see 812 01:11:17,75 --> 01:11:24,65 that fall on that site at the edge of some of our lakes is that always P 5 and what 813 01:11:24,66 --> 01:11:31,46 concentration does that have to when we see film that is P 5 some related what is 814 01:11:31,47 --> 01:11:38,22 that concentration so. Yeah great question because we know home is 815 01:11:38,23 --> 01:11:43,59 naturally occurring just given you know some of the other chemistry on the water so 816 01:11:43,97 --> 01:11:48,72 you. Go to our website W W W Michigan G.O.P. 817 01:11:48,73 --> 01:11:53,65 Forward slash P F A S response because we've got information on there about how to 818 01:11:53,66 --> 01:11:54,80 identify whether it's 819 01:11:54,81 --> 01:12:00,98 a related fall but in basically you know you're not supposed to be 820 01:12:01,53 --> 01:12:05,37 touching it playing it but if you happen to be in it you would notice it has 821 01:12:05,38 --> 01:12:11,80 a different consistency it's often peer white and the thing to know about it is we 822 01:12:11,81 --> 01:12:15,57 don't have a standard method for sampling collecting 823 01:12:15,58 --> 01:12:21,75 a sample so as you know it's full it's error and so it uses zip lock bag and how 824 01:12:21,76 --> 01:12:25,98 much you collect we're trying to standardize that we've been asking we asked E.P.A. 825 01:12:25,99 --> 01:12:29,82 For some help on that but when we have collected the samples we found 826 01:12:29,83 --> 01:12:36,01 concentrations in the parts per 1000000000 range and that's why you'll see the 827 01:12:36,02 --> 01:12:39,95 advisories out there play in the fall and don't let your kids put it in their mouth 828 01:12:39,96 --> 01:12:45,91 because it's super high concentrations relative to the 70 parts per trillion that 829 01:12:45,92 --> 01:12:47,62 you see in the drinking water standard 830 01:12:54,57 --> 01:12:59,08 I'm George Roman and I just want to know what the Emerald gold procedure was you 831 01:12:59,09 --> 01:13:05,84 used to measure this and the 2nd question is can these be removed by each 832 01:13:06,69 --> 01:13:10,15 R O So there's 833 01:13:10,16 --> 01:13:14,45 a couple of analytical methods that are being used for drinking water the go to 834 01:13:14,46 --> 01:13:21,39 method is method 537 and they just came out with an updated version 537 835 01:13:21,40 --> 01:13:22,37 point one which adds 836 01:13:22,38 --> 01:13:29,01 a few more compounds so 537 has 14. Compounds of looks at and there's been 4 more 837 01:13:29,02 --> 01:13:33,03 added to the 537 point one there's no labs really around right now that are 838 01:13:33,14 --> 01:13:36,75 validated by 37 point one there's also 839 01:13:36,76 --> 01:13:41,58 a method with place of talk to Lucian to and there's an 80 S. T.M. 840 01:13:41,59 --> 01:13:48,19 Method out there Michigan. For $24.00 pounds and 841 01:13:48,99 --> 01:13:49,56 there's a there's 842 01:13:49,57 --> 01:13:54,98 a couple other methods there that are for those more complicated matrices easily 843 01:13:55,03 --> 01:13:57,26 waste waters and whatnot where the E.P.A. 844 01:13:57,59 --> 01:14:03,24 For drinking water just isn't generally political and so far removed like I said 845 01:14:03,25 --> 01:14:09,04 there's very few good or very few options available granular granular activated 846 01:14:09,05 --> 01:14:15,21 carbon or gas or short ionized presence which may last 847 01:14:15,22 --> 01:14:16,57 a little longer or there's 848 01:14:16,58 --> 01:14:23,57 a breakthrough or another option work very similar way to what carbon does and then 849 01:14:23,61 --> 01:14:29,41 our all we've had some pilot test done with reverse osmosis you can land the 850 01:14:29,42 --> 01:14:35,21 leeches in they've been able to remove the past compounds down to 90 problem is 851 01:14:35,22 --> 01:14:41,22 what it does concentrates the virus into a much lower volume and so remember 852 01:14:41,23 --> 01:14:47,26 a cycle so now what do you do with that and it's the destruction technologies that 853 01:14:47,27 --> 01:14:53,53 are the big challenge we have right now. Oh thank you. 854 01:14:55,20 --> 01:14:59,18 Nicole Runnion and I actually live in Lima not County so I know this is 855 01:14:59,19 --> 01:15:02,96 a different I live in I had lived in 856 01:15:02,97 --> 01:15:06,84 a house for 13 years and the previous owners for taxidermists and they did this 857 01:15:06,85 --> 01:15:10,87 business out of their house we had our water tested when we did it was fine but of 858 01:15:10,88 --> 01:15:15,50 course that was well before this all came to light is there reason for concern. 859 01:15:21,94 --> 01:15:27,22 I realize I cannot foam but you know in light of I will reign in everything. 860 01:15:29,43 --> 01:15:35,78 It's Zoe I don't know if there is as well and will stay who's 861 01:15:36,10 --> 01:15:41,05 for. Her back. Or who it is 862 01:15:41,69 --> 01:15:48,27 a has to be you know what it is to be surprised to see it whether it is ready with 863 01:15:48,99 --> 01:15:55,04 those 3 legs that. He uses you know he will as. Ready 864 01:15:56,03 --> 01:16:02,97 this or this of those who. Else you know it's 865 01:16:02,98 --> 01:16:08,64 in raise even with other than you might go away but other mayors may with her legs 866 01:16:08,99 --> 01:16:14,46 this will I would say still there with you know what's the role it actually is to 867 01:16:14,47 --> 01:16:21,41 do. For health or whole movie or was it was that short 868 01:16:21,42 --> 01:16:27,23 circuited. You know the movie with 869 01:16:28,20 --> 01:16:34,62 particular was that. I was sort of the. Core of the 870 01:16:35,27 --> 01:16:42,19 place you where are you all with. Your well. What is it. 871 01:16:43,26 --> 01:16:48,60 You know you're here 100 feet away that. You know 10 minutes or any. 872 01:16:50,84 --> 01:16:53,74 News of your own greedy and again there's 873 01:16:53,75 --> 01:17:01,66 a lot of questions there. Are to keep. With 874 01:17:01,67 --> 01:17:06,94 the way with it and then well this is very early and we know that much of our show 875 01:17:07,38 --> 01:17:14,29 here is you know. I am or often are. 876 01:17:15,73 --> 01:17:21,40 I'm area just about 6 months ago former. Employee. 877 01:17:22,52 --> 01:17:29,46 Came on the scene right after people. For this is my stuff from. But I 878 01:17:29,47 --> 01:17:34,15 have to say that Michigan responded to that well before most of the other states in 879 01:17:34,16 --> 01:17:38,41 the nation and that's because you know we're the 1st ones deal with has 880 01:17:38,42 --> 01:17:44,22 a Suisse in the nation the way we did so we're much for along the curves in 881 01:17:44,23 --> 01:17:48,17 a lot of other states that way and thank you for the work that you do but my 882 01:17:48,18 --> 01:17:53,93 questions are so since I came on the scene back in those days and this may be 883 01:17:53,94 --> 01:18:00,69 premature to ask you this question but how to speed Fass rank with the other 884 01:18:00,70 --> 01:18:06,76 notorious chemicals that have infiltrated our environment such as P C V's 885 01:18:07,09 --> 01:18:08,23 D.D.T. 886 01:18:08,56 --> 01:18:11,86 Mercury were this one going to fall. 887 01:18:17,40 --> 01:18:24,15 So I think part of the answer is look at what we're doing and so I'm 888 01:18:24,16 --> 01:18:27,57 not aware that we've ever arranged ourselves from 889 01:18:27,58 --> 01:18:32,47 a communication and cooperation structure in state government before like we have 890 01:18:32,48 --> 01:18:39,41 now to address people yes just because number one recognition of how base of in 891 01:18:39,75 --> 01:18:40,10 Bio 892 01:18:40,11 --> 01:18:45,41 a cumulative persistent these compounds are and how little we know about them you 893 01:18:45,42 --> 01:18:49,16 know you know Governor Snyder then and Governor Whitman are now have said you know 894 01:18:49,17 --> 01:18:53,49 what we need to keep all of the state agencies focused working cooperatively 895 01:18:53,50 --> 01:18:58,99 together and with our local and federal partners as well because this is important 896 01:18:59,31 --> 01:19:02,06 there's so much we don't know if so where does it fit on 897 01:19:02,07 --> 01:19:04,08 a scale you know that might be 898 01:19:04,09 --> 01:19:08,76 a question to ask you know 1010 years from now after we figured more of this out 899 01:19:08,80 --> 01:19:15,28 but again I'm not aware that we've ever gone as comprehensibly as we have with the 900 01:19:15,29 --> 01:19:18,87 fast and trying to understand where it is in the environment and address it as 901 01:19:18,88 --> 01:19:25,74 quickly as we have. That the chemicals are came up to this but yet they do 902 01:19:26,22 --> 01:19:31,76 behave differently through the soil column so do we really understand the mode of 903 01:19:31,80 --> 01:19:33,09 bio accumulation for P. 904 01:19:33,10 --> 01:19:39,88 Fast compounds I mean are they are they live up to look like organic. 905 01:20:08,93 --> 01:20:15,70 Molecules but they're not the fide so all. May not have fish 906 01:20:15,71 --> 01:20:21,73 advisories or say in other. Consumption advisories on these compounds 907 01:20:23,79 --> 01:20:30,57 Well I would I would say that is that what you're saying is true. But the 908 01:20:30,58 --> 01:20:31,89 different compounds and there's 909 01:20:31,90 --> 01:20:36,09 a lot of different compounds they have different length carbon chains and they have 910 01:20:36,10 --> 01:20:41,45 different half lives and really the body burden is in the blood in the in the liver 911 01:20:41,49 --> 01:20:47,64 in the kidneys. So it's really it's really in there and it's so pervasive in the 912 01:20:47,65 --> 01:20:52,18 environment and really the problem is that doesn't break down doesn't break down in 913 01:20:52,19 --> 01:20:57,48 the environment so everything that's out there I mean we don't know really how long 914 01:20:57,49 --> 01:21:02,81 it's going to be out there so I mean we may be exposed to this frequency. 915 01:21:05,24 --> 01:21:06,12 And a P.C. 916 01:21:06,13 --> 01:21:11,16 These are circuits for that I mean they don't bring down either right right one 917 01:21:11,17 --> 01:21:16,15 last question now sit down limited to action limited quantification we're talking 918 01:21:16,16 --> 01:21:23,07 about 8 parts per trillion as as possibly an action level Lisa Tekton 919 01:21:23,18 --> 01:21:23,82 What's 920 01:21:23,83 --> 01:21:31,63 a level of texture and quantification for these compounds. I 921 01:21:31,64 --> 01:21:37,77 can sort of recall. But it might be or well in so I think it depends on the method 922 01:21:37,78 --> 01:21:42,27 in the maître see that you're testing so for drinking water the E.P.A. 923 01:21:42,28 --> 01:21:47,95 Method is very prescriptive and it tells the labs you know how to do this and how 924 01:21:47,96 --> 01:21:52,02 to report it and so the reporting limit under the E.P.A. 925 01:21:52,03 --> 01:21:57,90 Method is 2 parts per trillion now we've seen with the method with isotope dilution 926 01:21:58,32 --> 01:22:04,60 there quantified they can actually I've seen reports like 1.5 parts per trillion I 927 01:22:04,61 --> 01:22:09,15 couldn't speak to the accuracy of that but we're talking very very low parts per 928 01:22:09,16 --> 01:22:11,44 trillion and the methods that are being used. 929 01:22:17,70 --> 01:22:24,24 In time for one or 2 more Quest. I am 930 01:22:24,41 --> 01:22:27,71 a metal stat I was wondering you've talked a little bit about quite 931 01:22:27,72 --> 01:22:31,91 a bit about Blair township wonder if you could touch on the other sites in our 932 01:22:31,92 --> 01:22:35,83 region in Leon County specifically that the Environmental Working Group. 933 01:22:36,86 --> 01:22:41,98 Interactive map has flagged as having contaminated drinking water looks like 934 01:22:41,99 --> 01:22:46,89 there's 2 sites in the North Port area one in Leland one in Lakeland and one that 935 01:22:46,90 --> 01:22:53,87 was noted as other. Other known site but specifically those 234 936 01:22:54,36 --> 01:22:59,73 as having some kind of contamination it doesn't give in that map to disappear vide 937 01:22:59,74 --> 01:23:03,10 what those figures are but I wonder if you could address that for 938 01:23:03,11 --> 01:23:09,87 a region here where the school. Looked like 939 01:23:09,88 --> 01:23:15,05 Leo if you because it's looks like it's in the process proximate locations directly 940 01:23:15,06 --> 01:23:19,68 if you look at the map it goes down to the looks like the building site but but to 941 01:23:19,69 --> 01:23:26,50 a North Port one in Leland one in Lakeland on one south south of science fact. So 942 01:23:26,51 --> 01:23:31,40 all star and I have not read thoroughly that report I haven't had time to but my 943 01:23:31,41 --> 01:23:35,76 understanding is what they did is they looked not only at the 49 sites that I 944 01:23:35,77 --> 01:23:41,78 presented up there but they also looked at other data from like our public water 945 01:23:41,79 --> 01:23:48,17 supply testing and I believe some of the 192 sites that they put on their map are 946 01:23:48,18 --> 01:23:54,39 the 62 that I mentioned where we found of that 10 parts per trillion Actually I 947 01:23:54,40 --> 01:24:01,07 think they included any detections in the water community water supply or schools 948 01:24:01,83 --> 01:24:07,77 well and so those are the ones where we are now doing quarterly monitoring this 949 01:24:07,78 --> 01:24:12,02 we've already taken the 1st round of Coralie monitoring and we'll do this for 950 01:24:12,03 --> 01:24:17,90 a year just to see if the levels are fluctuating at all and again some of these 951 01:24:17,91 --> 01:24:21,24 could be down near 1011 total D.F.A. 952 01:24:21,25 --> 01:24:26,52 Esle 14 S compounds could be making up that total but we want to get 953 01:24:26,53 --> 01:24:32,17 a better handle on do those concentrations change over time seasonally and or 954 01:24:32,18 --> 01:24:36,46 whatever other reason. To have 955 01:24:36,47 --> 01:24:44,47 a Mark Preston. Oh 956 01:24:44,48 --> 01:24:47,62 you know thank you Trisha Denton and I'm 957 01:24:47,63 --> 01:24:52,20 a former geological survey division of state like I want a database employee with 958 01:24:52,21 --> 01:24:55,52 a background in environmental science also but my question is 959 01:24:55,53 --> 01:25:00,72 a follow up regarding can you can you give I have some understanding of this but I 960 01:25:00,73 --> 01:25:04,18 think for the folks here in the crowd could you give 961 01:25:04,22 --> 01:25:09,56 a more detailed explanation of how these substances do to the nature of their 962 01:25:09,57 --> 01:25:15,90 structure behave in the human body. Why we're not worried about them being fat 963 01:25:15,94 --> 01:25:20,75 a cumulative but the impact they have within the bloodstream and how they wrap 964 01:25:20,76 --> 01:25:26,38 themselves around and then cause problems with liver kidneys those other structures 965 01:25:26,39 --> 01:25:31,29 that would otherwise remove toxins from your body and evacuate them out of your 966 01:25:31,30 --> 01:25:35,77 body can anybody speak in more detail about how they behave in the body due to 967 01:25:35,78 --> 01:25:36,60 their structure. 968 01:25:53,32 --> 01:25:59,14 It is really it was. The size of the deal. 969 01:26:01,27 --> 01:26:01,51 It's 970 01:26:01,52 --> 01:26:08,33 a 40 House or so sometimes. You know I didn't. And it was not 971 01:26:08,42 --> 01:26:13,26 her then. Which she uses this prominence. 972 01:26:15,77 --> 01:26:21,89 Also So it is basically you know our lives are very open and water you know 973 01:26:21,90 --> 01:26:26,61 something in there this is basically the either one of those and. 974 01:26:29,02 --> 01:26:35,55 You know awfully well all's in the substance so of the best explanations not to 975 01:26:35,56 --> 01:26:42,42 have that it will. Interfere. With process right is really on the whole 976 01:26:42,47 --> 01:26:47,17 the whole process and. Basically is 977 01:26:47,18 --> 01:26:53,71 a man and we should not involve should be in there watching the water 978 01:26:54,50 --> 01:27:00,65 we're the are not with the feeling. That. So. 979 01:27:02,24 --> 01:27:07,79 We should be more immediately answer next or. Human Services. 980 01:27:09,56 --> 01:27:12,00 And it's only there that if we. 981 01:27:16,69 --> 01:27:20,89 Well I was just going to say and go back to that one slide that we had where we had 982 01:27:20,90 --> 01:27:26,52 just some of the acronyms there that they they don't all behave the same way and so 983 01:27:26,53 --> 01:27:30,60 this is something keep in mind if you're doing your own research for Wes I think is 984 01:27:30,61 --> 01:27:35,19 one of the compounds that we found as bio accumulating in us in the half life is 985 01:27:35,20 --> 01:27:40,08 like I was 7 years or something like that versus some of the shorter chain ones 986 01:27:40,09 --> 01:27:45,24 they're half life is to us like an aspirin ours so again it's 987 01:27:45,25 --> 01:27:49,37 a big class of chemicals we only know something about 988 01:27:49,38 --> 01:27:53,05 a very small number of them and even though as we know they don't all behave the 989 01:27:53,06 --> 01:27:59,68 same way. In. This report the scientific 990 01:27:59,69 --> 01:28:05,81 evidence. In the nation Michigan this is on the in her website correct. 991 01:28:07,14 --> 01:28:10,83 Right and I'm not the best one for navigating but it's out there it is out there 992 01:28:10,84 --> 01:28:13,76 about the documents part right and this is 993 01:28:13,77 --> 01:28:19,49 a this is an excellent document and it does get into the. Toxicology. 994 01:28:22,92 --> 01:28:28,71 Really anything you want to know what's going on. In the state. Kind of. 995 01:28:30,01 --> 01:28:33,80 Breakdown of the history and. It's pretty technical but. 996 01:28:37,32 --> 01:28:40,89 All right thank you all so much for coming in another round of applause.