we saw how well karl rove did in 2012. i don't think he could plan that far ahead to create the tea party in 2010. that was a creation of what happened in 2009 and 2010. not just with barack obama but with george w. bush a big spending republican who spent us into debt. he gave us medicare part b. >> jon: but they don't ever talk about it in that matter. they say the deficit is from bush. >> that pisses me off. i was here in 2004 his a book before the election in 2004 i said bush is bankrupting us. his foreign policy is going to bankrupt us. we're going to lose the next election and going to wreck the economy. now i'm being attacked for writing things like this saying we seriously we probably shouldn't drive the beer truck off the cliff. i'm saying the same exact thing. i'm against big government republicanism. >> jon: you are saying the past ten years have all been because we didn't listen to you? >> exactly. exactly. at least the republican party. now you know! not you. i don't think i would have ever influenced you but

and will we have the karl rove, 501 c 4s, will karl rove in that world all start screaming abut this. saying this is unfair. you are fryitrying to shut us d. if they do. what they're arguing against is enforcement of the law as written. >> i think that's absolutely correct. the same way that this tape party targeting scandal was a phony scandal as revealed on the show. it was initiated. by a republican staffer in the cincinnati office. and there was never any obama administration involvement what so ever. i think you will hear this same dishonest characterization of the motivation to make this change. there are two things to keep in mind there. the first thing is -- all of the groups like the karl rove groups who are complaining that this is some effort to suppress their political activity. the 501 c 4 gives organizations like karl roves, the cloak of secrecy. they like dark money. they want big contributors. the millions of dollars. have contributors never, never identified. i think you will hear the claim this is an effort to suppress speech by conservatives. the rules will obviousl

karl rove wrote publicly what he was up to. the democrats didn't catch up to it in 2010. the democrats just going to have to sit there -- until 2020. until the next redistricting census before they can actually seriously take on the problem. awe off the demographic change favor democrats pretty extraordinari extraordinarily. in the late decade. some changes will start to overwhelm even the effort of redistricting. some of the redistricted districts don't have a huge margin. they don't win 65-35. 55-45. so as the demographics change. some will be worn down. we are stuck with this for a decade. >> one of the striking things abut th about this is that the republicans don't play it safe once they get elected within the new district. they, they, in the past when you would see redistricting like this t. the w this, the winner would play down the middle. they know there are mixed voters in the district. the republicans with the 55 levels of the majority in their district go, pretty far. in the republican direction. once elected. >> there is always the threat of the primary from

our campaign to karl rove. >> what about the obama handout covered up implying that i was a crook. >> i endorse him and throw my full support behind him. >> i have known hillary clinton as a friend, a colleague. i had no doubt that hillary clinton is the right person to lead our state department. president clinton, you need to appoint him secretary of explaining stuff. i like that. >> joining me now is msnbc.com executive editor rich are wolfe author of "the message" and jonathan allen, upcoming book is "hrc: state secrets and the rebirth of hillary clinton." jonathan, as the hillary clinton expert here of the panel, she has traveled a long road from that presidential primary debate stage to where she could today, watch the president of the united states drape the medal of freedom around her husband's shoulders. >> i was waiting for president obama to recommend president clinton for sainthood. >> he's got a few more years. >> perhaps that nobel prize that bill clinton never won that obama did. look, over five years a lot has changed. there's been both a political necessity for barack

karl rove, laura ingram had a field day throwing around your name this morning. take a listen to this. >> beautiful. >> every democrat listen to debbie wasserman schultz, do exactly that. obama care every single day. it's a great thing, everybody loves it. don't pay attention to the ordinary people. there are a few malcon tents, go out there and push this issue every single day. you know what, i don't know what you're smoking, because debbie wasserman schultz says that democrats should embrace this and run on it because it's a winner. >> well, good. i hope debbie wasserman schultz and her words of wisdom emanate throughout the democratic stratosphere and i hope they permeate the candidates' campaign structures. >> all right. so let's have your words of wisdom. based on that that can permeate throughout the democratic stratosphere. the law in and of itself is just that. it's a law. so now everybody has to learn to live with it and this is a big, big lift for our social structure in terms of the promise that we're making to each other. our social contract. do you t

just because karl rove writes numbers on a whiteboard doesn't mean his math works out. i think we've had his moath in the past. obama care is designed to replace junk policies with good, affordable health care, which is good for the consumers in the long run. consumers are going to win. here is a number. here is a number that you will not find on karl rove's whiteboard. 17 million americans qualify for subsidies under obama care because they are low-income americans. this is what it's all about. there is absolutely no point in republicans continuing to go out and continue to slam obama care. they're committing political suicide. it is the law. it's not going anywhere. all republicans are doing is digging themselves deeper into the hole they are already in. you can sit out there and listen to this garbage. the only thing they have left is republican lies and misinformation. i'm having fun doing this show more now than ever. it's fun to come on the air and debunk all these lies. in states that have set up exchanges, obama care is working like a charm. in kentucky. now we

rove. this was dreamed up. >> this is something to keep an eye on for people who think they shouldn't vote in midterm elections like 2014. the state goes as the state goes by majority vote. they're trying to do it by congressional district. if they can get it changed like that they basically can went the presidency with a dramatically lower number of votes than the other side had. >> right. in these same states where they redistricted so dramatically they're proposed to have the electoral college linked to a congressional district. if they had that last election, mitt romney would be president despite a popular loss. >> that's a vast majority of the number of congressional districts, and all they have to do is use that to rubber stamp a victory in the house and a victory in the presidency. >> and they're obviously not proposing this in big red states like texas or south carolina. this is in only states where the republicans happen to control the legislature. >> besides reapportionment, the

and gop bag man karl rove is all over fox without a word of support for cuccinelli while he schemes and whispers against the scenes against conservatives nationwide. >> i'm not a media critic. let's go to the argument, the people i grew up with like tom ridge, and all those guys we grew up with in my youth that were regular republicans, someone notched to the right of center are responsible for a man who wants to get rid of birth control, who wants to have person hood. this guy is pushing the envelope. and then he blames them for watching. >> this is the first time in 40 years that a party has won the governorship when they had their own member in the white house. it's the first time i think in a century that the same party hasn't won the governorship of virginia twice in succession. so they've broken all kinds of barriers here with cuccinelli. i think there's something else that we ought to know which is that because of obama care they were rallying toward the end of the race. you talk to the pollsters for mcauliffe, and they'll tell you that from june on, they were 2 to 4 points ahead

karl rove's nonprofit group is estimated to have spent almost a billion dollars since 2010 on various financial campaigns. the group americans for prosperity prosperity, they have been spending millions as well. sheldon adelson has given tens of millions to -- those groups which take the millions and millions and millions of dollars especially from big dollar donor donors and they use it for various cam pains, those groups remain untaxed under the guise of social welfare organizations. political operations funded by undiscloseded donors at least for the moment are considered to work for the cause of social welfare and that's how you get a billion dollars where you don't know where it came from or what's to become of the organization who made it happen. today the obama administration proposed new rules to specify exactly how much and what kind of political activity these wealthy nonprofit groups could engage in and still qualify as tax exempt social welfare groups. these new rules would not just set clearer limits on spending, they would prevent these groups from funding political ads

rove, and former de evan bayh. karl we talked about this at great length in our opening debate. how much trouble is obamacare in? the website, cancellations, the whole deal going forward. >> big trouble. the president's job approval rating is tied for the lowest in his term, disapproval rate at its high efpl. the law has gotten more unpopular in the last week or so. these problems are going to continue. let's put this in perspective. the individual market is being affected. there are about 150 million people who get insurance through their employer. # -- 90 million will be unaffected. those are plans governed by erisa. a total of about 75 ph-bgt plans. in 2010 the department of health and humans services said at least 14 million people are going to lose coverage. that would be 20% of the people in america governed by obamacare who today have health insurance would lose it. other estimates are as high as nearly 50% of people who have health coverage subject to obamacare are going to lose it. that's going to be rolli

but karl rove said democrats didn't have a problem when it was groups backing them. >> it is hypocritical. and it's interesting it only started to happen when conservatives started to do what liberal have done for decades. >> reporter: it's clear these rules are going to be a huge fight. it's thought they won't be in place for the 2014 cycle. but will likely be a factor in the 2016 presidential election. doug? >> mike emanuel, thank you, mike. >>> stocks headed into the holiday on a high note. the dow gained 24.5 for another record close. the s&p 500 up 5. nasdaq gained 27. >>> up next, new images and documents from last year's benghazi terror attack. but here is what some of our fox affiliates are covering tonight. fox 5 in las vegas on a judge's decision to reject o.j. simpson's request for a new trial. simpson contended his defense was inadequate in his robbery trial in 2008. fox 4 in dallas with another judge's ruling ruling a merger between marlins and us airwaames airways a little closer to reality. and this is a live look atlanta hartsfield. the big story, another huge holiday trav

rove, and president bush, and that's going into this very bizarre case, and the latest he has taken to banging his head on the wall of his cell. >> the brother of rob ford will face a, quote, public flogging. last week mayor ford fessed up to smoking crack. tomorrow toronto's city council is expected to vote on a motion to ask the province of ontario to remove the mayor if he didn't agree to take a leave of absence. the mayor says he is not going anywhere and is hawking official mayor bop bob ford bobble heads. he sign them at city hall. they had a line out the front door. hundreds of people lined up to buy these bobbleheads. all around the concerner, and by the time the last person was inside the building, they had run out of the bobbleheads. now they're for sale on ebay and other places for hundreds of dollars each. thankfully the proceeds go to the united way charity, not to maintain anybody's habit of any kind. >> we have heard from the suspended miami dolphins lineman and the team's owner. now there's word the player who said his teammates harassed him for more than a year will

karl rove this week was talking about the overarching trend confronting republicans. and i take your point that your job is to elect republicans to the house. one of the things he said was the country is becoming less liked. an arise in the latino and african-american population. until the populations economically rise, you're going to have a more democratic electorate. do you worry, not in your specific calling but more generally about the fate of your party? >> sure. i think we have to always have a positive agenda. i think we have one. i think we need to be better at messaging that agenda. because we aren't always good at that. we can improve. and i think that agenda needs to cut across demographics, age, everything else. it's an agenda about believing in the individual as opposed to big government. it's an agenda -- frankly, i try to promote in my sub committee on communications and technology about future innovations and what america can be because of what we are and the creative brilliance we have. and the need to harness that more and create more jobs that pay

. >> what's karl rove's gps -- cross roads gps. how is that different than any other pac? >> well, it's different. first of all, it's different because it can take unlimited amounts of money. >> and it's also anonymous. >> it's anonymous. so people can run money through there in any amount. what you get on the finance disclosure, you get nothing. what you get in the tax disclosure as what you were looking at earlier is anonymous donor. person. democrats actually have some persons like that. there just respect as many persons like that in the democratic party giving money. when they do, they're guys like george sorros who is not afraid to say he's providing money. he, in fact, says i'm putting it in. that's what everybody ought to do. >> in the old days before you were born, judith, the few in the country and in the world said this country is run by the millionaires. it pretends to be a democracy. this crowd wants it to be as bad as the communists said we were. they want it to be a country not run by voters but by millionaires. thank you and we'll be right back. [ male anno

karl rove said in march i could see a gop candidate supporting marriage equality in 2016. how bullish are you to change. >> we now have gay rights groups praising the pope and republican groups praising russia. lets not forget the one political conservative cheney who doesn't even have an actual heart supports the right for his daughter to get married. current new generation leaders in his party don't. they are out of state with history, voters, their own base. far right of republican voerts, the young folks they even support marriage equality. >> all it does is make problems for republicans. the cheney family drama, don't go there. now she's opposed to her sister facebooking comments. it serves to make this a front burner issue when it doesn't have to be. >> this is happening in a much grander context where republicans are not giving no vote. they fought doma in the court. >> reproductive freedoms consistently undermining and cushing at every level. >> voting rights, equal pay, immigration reform isn't just waiting for a vote in the house. it's almost like after rebuildin

you're seeing now karl rove and i think bill whalen in the "wall street journal" saying republicans you've got is that going to play with the o tea party? >> if one married women did, hei would have won the governorship by seven points. behind by double digits and six to eight points.ik looked like he was really going to get blown out. a call for the democrats who wag really going out there after social issues. even birth control as well as co gun ntcontrol. then in the final two weeks,esaid as we began to see w problems with obama care he was going to go after that and makee it a referendum and he almost won. >> this race came down to the wire because of obama care. that message will go out across america tonight. >> what do you see as the lessons from christie's victory in new jersey and from the narrow loss in virginia? >> if you're trying to elect somebody in the state of virginia, which is populated heavily by government workers by and heavily populated in normally republican areas down in the tide water where you have got the shipyards, don't shut the government down within two month

you're seeing now karl rove and i think bill whalen in the "wall street journal" saying republicans you've got to down play this issue like abortions. is that going to play with the tea party sph >> cuccinelli carried voters 18-24. cuccinelli carried independents by 9 points. if unmarried women had broken as married women did he would have won the virginia governorship by 7 points. >> for those of you who didn't follow it closely, cuccinelli was behind by at one point double digits then six to eight points. looked like he was going to get blown out and particularly as juan says, the democrats were going after him on social issues like abortion and even birth control swell gun control. and -- birth control as well as gun control. then in the final two weeks as we began to see problems with obamacare he was going to go after that making referendum in obamacare and he almost won. here's cuccinelli from election night. >> this race came down to the wire because of obamacare. that message will go out across america tonight. >> what do you see as the lessons both from christie's victory in new j

karl rove practiced on texas, started by taking out ann richards out of the governor's office and went on the redistricting they did there, focused on democratic women. they got rid of five women in the legislature. and they have put in the most conservative, the most reactionary and the most anti women state house, you know, possibly in history. and women -- and their male allies are slowly going to take that back. i don't know that we can do it in 2014. it's possible. but we can't do it ever if we don't start trying. and the idea that texas is going to someday eventually go purple and then blue, it will, but it will happen faster if national democrats get involved and help texas people do it themselves. >> all right. joan walsh, sarah slaman. great to have you on "the ed show." we'll have you back. you're a fresh voice, no question about it. and with a lot of enthusiasm and common sense. and i appreciate the fact that you went oafter the senate talking about the filibuster. that's really what it's going to take. if we're going to have change in this country, the senate is going to ha

early this week at the atlantic, karl rove talked about the republican coalition being in a state of flux. he says now they are starting to sort out. i think we're past the point of greatest warfare. how do you see the warfare affecting your job? >> i think the democrats have a number of primaries that are causing in-party warfare. nearly everyone of those faces are solid republican seats. nearly everyone -- you cannot say that about the democrats. look at the chalice to mike mcintyre. -- challenge to mike mcintyre. a candidate has been picked that did not get into the runoff last time. they pick someone else. and former member of congress is a third candidate. it is a jungle primary. republicans are not the only party that has primaries. democrats, where they have them, i think that is a serious challenge in a primary. they will be weakened as a result. >> on health care, the republicans have to unite around alternatives? >> a, we have, and b, we can lay out how we would have a patient- centered health care system. the challenge we have is that we have a law on the books that the pr

for example -- now that dan rather situation, no one ever brings out -- karl rove said they put that story out there so they could take it like a feisih and workm. -- and worm. dan rather left, i thought that was a sad situation for them to put false information out there for somebody to grab hold of you -- grab a hold of and then you have the financial experts on their to talk about what happened with the financial breadown. freddie mac and fannie mae were the last to jump into that circle of all that financial mess that went on. folks come on repeatedly, a lot of republicans sayingferent other ones, that fannie mae and freddie mac were the main reason why this financial mess -- you know, things like that just get you upset. the thinga bout it is you have the experts on c-span talking financial all that started, and fannie mae and freddie mac got on because they were forced to do something to get their little -- host: gotcha. we appreciate the input. if you wanted to go to our see -- videoa nd library and see what we have done with regards to fannie mae and freddie mac, type in thes