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Law Meets Gospel

Josh S. Tatum

Law Meets Gospel informs faith communities about legal and law-related issues. Each episode addresses a legal or legal-related issue that leaders in churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, and other religious communities face as part of day-to-day business. Host Josh Tatum is an Indianapolis lawyer who works with faith communities, nonprofits, businesses, and individuals across the country on a variety of legal issues. He earned joint degrees in law and theology from Vanderbilt University. Josh ...



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Law Meets Gospel
Nov 29, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Before Martin Luther became a monk, he was a rather successful student whose father encouraged his path into the study of law. Informed in part by his brief stint in law school and other encounters with lawyers in his day, he developed a distaste and distrust for the profession as a whole. Derek Nelson, coauthor of Resilient Reformer: The Life and Thought of Martin Luther, helps explain what a lawyer did in sixteenth-century Germany, what studying the law would have been like, and what Luther...
Law Meets Gospel
Nov 21, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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When organizations lack accountability mechanisms, they can become stagnant. When someone suggests implementing some accountability or asks specific questions about current practices, the person responsible for that aspect of the faith community's life often takes it as a personal attack. But when a community values accountability as a necessary part of good stewardship, moments of accountability can serve to improve the organization's mission. Developing a culture of accountability takes time,...
Law Meets Gospel
Nov 7, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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All states authorize clergy to perform marriage ceremonies. But each state has its own definitions and procedures. For example, some states have narrow definitions of who qualifies as clergy, sometimes even requiring registration. And the consequences of not following these procedures can fall on both the marrying couple and the minister. Related In re Peacock, 788 S.E.2d 191 (2016) How to Get Arrested for Marrying Same-Sex Couples (July 11, 2013) Congratulations, Amy and Hunter!...
Law Meets Gospel
Oct 31, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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October 31, 2017, marks the five hundredth anniversary of Martin Luther's ninety-five theses, which sparked the Reformation. The ripples of the Reformation still can be seen in the Church and society. Law Meets Gospel marks the occasion with Josh explaining the inspiration for several aspects of the podcast. Law Meets Gospel is inspired by Luther's teaching about Law and Gospel within Christian scriptures. Josh's sign-off, "As you work to meet the worlds need, be wise, be bold, and be...
Law Meets Gospel
Oct 24, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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What happens when someone gives a gift to a religious organization that no longer exists? Leaders should consider several things before dissolving an organization to make the answer more certain. First, ensure the organization uses clear language that is also consistent with applicable statutes. Second, determine whether any denominational entity has already been designated as a corporate successor. Third, if there is no denominational entity, consider designating a corporate successor. Fourth,...
Law Meets Gospel
Oct 18, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The federal district court for the Western District of Wisconsin recently held that the Tax Code's housing allowance violates the First Amendment's Establishment Clause. The decision in Gaylor v. Mnuchin, (W.D. Wis., Oct. 6, 2017), deals with 26 U.S.C. § 107(2). It does not affect the exemption from taxed income based on the value of a church-owned home, traditionally referred to as a parsonage, which is found in 26 U.S.C. § 107(1). Josh explains how the housing-allowance exemption works,...
Law Meets Gospel
Oct 10, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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If history is any indication, every worshiping community's life ends sometime. If that happens under the U.S. Tax Code, there are limits on how assets must be distributed. Musical instruments, books, and furnishings can't just be given to the donors who funded them. Fair prices must be received. And any assets left at the end of the legal entity's existence must be transferred to another charitable entity, like another house of worship, a denominational entity, relief agencies, or social...
Law Meets Gospel
Oct 3, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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What should you do if a leader of your religious organization is accused of sexual abuse? Assess the facts. Contact and coordinate with law enforcement. Contact denominational leaders. Disclose the facts to the congregation and invite other victims to report. Offer counseling to victims. Call your insurer. Prepare for negative responses and turbulent times. And remember that you're not alone. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes Google Play RSS Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast...
Law Meets Gospel
Sep 26, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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If your religious organization has a website, it should have at least a basic privacy statement informing users what information you collect on the site, who has access to it, what you do with it, and how you protect it. Resources Does Your Church or Ministry Website Have a Privacy Policy?   Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes Google Play RSS Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast...
Law Meets Gospel
Sep 19, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Religious organizations should be respectful when posting photos, videos, and audio from public events they host. Although nonprofits are exempt from the Child Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA), they should adhere to its requirements for children under thirteen to respect children's privacy and avoid possible regulatory implications. Before posting, it's best to obtain permission from adults and parents, which can be done by announcing that photos will be used for promotional materials and...
Law Meets Gospel
Sep 12, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Religious organizations and other nonprofits are not subject to the rules under the Child Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA), but COPPA's rules provide a good example of how to deal with information collected from children under 13. It requires verifiable parent consent, online privacy statements, and options for parents to control how providers use their children's information. Since it sets the standard in the United States for protecting children online, Josh encourages religious...
Law Meets Gospel
Sep 5, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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A federal court declared Obama-era overtime rules invalid just in time for Labor Day. On August 31 the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas issued an order explaining that rules implemented under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) during the last months of the Obama administration overreached the Labor Department’s ability to interpret FLSA. The decision can be found here: Nev. v U.S. Dep’t of Labor, No. 4.16-cv-00731-ALM, (E.D. Tex. Aug. 31, 2017) (Memo. Op. and Order)....
Law Meets Gospel
Aug 29, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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How do you know whether a representative has the authority to enter into an agreement on behalf of an organization? In short, the governing documents and resolutions of the board of directors can authorize a representative. But many organizations are not careful with following these formalities. Josh discusses what can go wrong when they don't, using the case discussed in this post as an example. Related N.Y. Sup. Ct.: $1 million religious arbitration award vacated due to lack of authority of...
Law Meets Gospel
Aug 22, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Does your organization use compensatory time instead of paying employees overtime? Stop! Many mistakenly believe that nonprofits are allowed to give employees time off to make up for earned overtime. But this isn't true. If an employee is subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), that employee must be paid time and a half for any time worked over forty hours in a seven-day work week. While some church employees may not be subject to FLSA, for those employees who do, it's important to...
Law Meets Gospel
Aug 15, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The conclusion of Josh's discussion with Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer. Dave and Josh talk about the possible practical implications of the decision, including what we might expect in future litigation. [caption id="" align="alignnone" width="150"] Dave Roland, Executive Director and cofounder of the Freedom Center of...
Law Meets Gospel
Aug 8, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The third part of Josh's discussion with Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer. Dave and Josh talk about two cases remanded by the Supreme Court. One involves a voucher program in Colorado. The other involves a textbook-renting program in New Mexico. [caption id="" align="alignnone" width="150"] Dave Roland, Executive Director and...
Law Meets Gospel
Aug 1, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The second part of Josh's discussion with Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer. Dave and Josh talk about the separate opinions by Justice Stephen Breyer, who concurred only in the judgment favoring the church, and Justice Sonia Sotomayor. [caption id="" align="alignnone" width="150"] Dave Roland, Executive Director and cofounder of the...
Law Meets Gospel
Jul 25, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh talks with Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer. [caption id="" align="alignnone" width="150"] Dave Roland, Executive Director and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri[/caption] See also Trinity Lutheran Church, Inc. v. Comer, No. 15-577 (U.S. June 26, 2017) Coverage of Trinity Lutheran Church decision  1719 Background on...
Law Meets Gospel
Jul 18, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Conflicts of interest are an inevitable part of doing any business, including for religious organizations. Josh talks about what a conflict of interest is, potential downfalls resulting from mishandling conflicts of interest, and key practices to handle conflicts of interest responsibly. Churches and other faith organizations should use disclosure statements annually to identify potential conflicts, adopt policies about how to handle conflicts, and regularly follow up and update these...
Law Meets Gospel
Jul 11, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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In most jurisdictions, to do business in an organization requires either a meeting or a unanimous written consent. In this episode, Josh discusses some of the reasons religious groups might not allow decision-making without a meeting, the minimum requirements of a meeting, and how to act without meetings, namely through unanimous written consent. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes Google Play RSS Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you...
Law Meets Gospel
Jul 4, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Consensus is a noble goal in leading organizations to action. But when organizations require consensus, it can lead to a different kind of tyranny when one dissenter stands in the way of doing anything. Josh shares some thoughts about how best to value consensus without requiring it in governing documents. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes Google Play RSS Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets...
Law Meets Gospel
Jul 1, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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From educational materials to hymns and worship, worshiping communities and other religious organizations use content created by others every day. Attorney Randall Cloe explains how licensing of copyrighted materials. He discusses the various clearinghouses to find licenses for music. He outlines the potential consequences of infringing copyright. And he and Josh briefly discuss the exception for religious materials used in worship.   [caption id="" align="alignleft"...
Law Meets Gospel
Jun 20, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Churches, synagogues, mosques, and other houses of worship and religious organizations, their employees, and their volunteers create content every day. To what degree should they worry about protecting it? How does copyright law provide them rights to protect them? Attorney Randall Cloe gives tips on copyrighted material for creators. He tells listeners when to take the step of registering copyrighted material and how to enforce when someone infringes copyright. And he explains how long...
Law Meets Gospel
Jun 13, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Copyright is the most important category of intellectual property for religious organizations.  Attorney Randall Cloe explains what is covered by copyright law. Copyright is created at the time of creation. Holders of copyright are granted the following rights: reproduction, derivatives, distribution, performance, display, performance by digital audio transmission, attribution, and integrity.   [caption id="" align="alignleft" width="150"] Randall D. Cloe, Owner...
Law Meets Gospel
Jun 7, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Religious organizations use and create intellectual property every day. But what is intellectual property? Attorney Randal Cloe of Carmel, Indiana, [caption id="" align="alignright" width="150"] Randall D. Cloe, Owner of Cloe Legal, LLC[/caption] explains the history of protections for intellectual property in American law. The protections seek to protect the fruits of creators' labor. Intellectual property can be divided into three main categories: patents,...
Law Meets Gospel
Jun 7, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh talks with Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the center's mission. The Freedom Center of Missouri is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization dedicated to research and public-interest litigation in six key areas: freedom of expression, economic liberty (the right to earn a living), property rights, religious liberties, limited government, and government transparency. [caption id="" align="alignnone"...
Law Meets Gospel
May 23, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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[caption id="" align="alignright" width="170"] James G. Blaine in the 1870s[/caption] The U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer on April 19, 2017. The church is challenging Missouri’s exclusion of religious groups from the state’s grant program for playground surfaces, which is based on the state's constitution. The relevant amendment is one of many often referred to as "Blaine Amendments." Josh interviews Dave...
Law Meets Gospel
May 16, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer on April 19, 2017. The church is challenging Missouri's exclusion of religious groups from the state's grant program for playground surfaces. Josh speaks with Dave Roland of the Freedom Center of Missouri about the argument, the justices' questions, and how the Court's decision could affect religious organizations across the country. [caption id="" align="alignnone" width="150"] Dave...
Law Meets Gospel
May 9, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The U.S. Supreme Court is considering a case in which a church asserts that Missouri's exclusion of religious organizations from a generally available grant program for playground surfaces violates the Free Exercise protection of the First Amendment and Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. To discuss the background of the case, Josh interviews Dave Roland, the Director of Litigation and cofounder of the Freedom Center of Missouri. [caption...
Law Meets Gospel
May 2, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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There are many ways that faith communities can help immigrants make their way after they arrive in the United States. In this episode, immigration lawyer Dallin Lykins shares some of these, how the current political debates about immigration affect immigrants' experiences of American life, how the refugee system works, and where people of faith and lawyers can go to connect with immigrants who need help. Resources for faith communities mentioned in this episode American Immigration Lawyers...
Law Meets Gospel
Apr 25, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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[caption id="attachment_397" align="alignleft" width="300"] Used under Creative Commons license by Nick Youngson at http://NYPhotographic.com through http://picserver.org/i/immigration.html[/caption] During a heightened time of debate and anxiety, many faith communities have joined or are considering joining what's known as the "Sanctuary Movement." The concept of sanctuary has historical roots, but it isn't legally supported. Faith communities and other...
Law Meets Gospel
Apr 18, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Immigration law affects every employer, including religious organizations. [caption id="" align="alignright" width="193"] Dallin Lykins represents clients in matters involving a host of immigration issues.[/caption] Dallin Lykins of Lewis & Kappes in Indianapolis explains Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), the history of deferred action, what DACA means for millions of people in the United States, and what changes to DACA religious employers can...
Law Meets Gospel
Apr 11, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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[caption id="" align="alignright" width="188"] Dallin Lykins represents clients in matters involving a host of immigration issues.[/caption] Immigration law affects every employer, including religious organizations. Dallin Lykins of Lewis & Kappes in Indianapolis provides religious and other employers an overview of immigration issues they need to know about. Dallin mentioned these websites for people looking for help about basic immigration questions: U.S....
Law Meets Gospel
Apr 4, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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American law has many protections of religious freedom. Among these are various means by which religious people and organizations can seek exemptions from otherwise-applicable legal requirements when those rules would burden their religious beliefs. This episode discusses the development of those exemptions under the First Amendment, the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, and state versions of the Religious Freedom Restoration...
Law Meets Gospel
Mar 29, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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While I advise to use the current edition of Robert's Rules and explained several reasons in the last episode, there are also good reasons to use a different parliamentary authority. Here are three: It's one size fits all. Much of the procedures included in Robert's Rules are unneeded for the majority of nonprofit boards. My suggested resource for this is Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief. Robert's Rules is not based on consensus-building, which today's leadership models emphasize....
Law Meets Gospel
Mar 21, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Parliamentary experts differ on whether to use Robert's Rules of Order or a different set of rules for meetings. I recommend Robert's Rules for many reasons. Here are five: It’s by far the most popular and well-known set of parliamentary rules in the United States. It addresses pretty much every situation your organization might come up against. (A result of having been tested and adjusted over 150 years.) Its goals of protection of the rights of members and those whom they represent are...
Law Meets Gospel
Mar 14, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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The U.S. Court of Appeals recently interpreted Indiana's Nonprofit Corporation Act to decide whether the term of a director for a family foundation had ended. If it had, her reelection and a gift from the foundation would be void. But the statute, the foundation's bylaws, and the electing resolution all provided that directors would serve until the later of their term's end or their replacement taking office. The case emphasizes that organizations should understand their state's statutes and...
Law Meets Gospel
Mar 7, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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It's important to understand your state's statute governing how not-for-profit organizations do business. Statutes have mandatory rules, default rules, and minimum standards. Not understanding these provisions can cause problems. Find the text of the American Bar Association’s 2008 Model Nonprofit Corporation Act, Third Edition here: http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/real_property_trust_estate/joint_fall/2008/black_letter.authcheckdam.pdf The complete history and comments of...
Law Meets Gospel
Feb 28, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Follow your bylaws! They are a contract among members, set out the community's identity, and are the ultimate authority if a dispute arises.   Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast publishes.
Law Meets Gospel
Feb 21, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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What are the consequences of repealing the Johnson Amendment? Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast publishes.
Law Meets Gospel
Feb 14, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Does the prohibition against 501(c)(3)s, including churches, supporting or opposing political candidates pass constitutional muster? What are the main arguments for repealing the prohibition? These are the opinions from one of the cases discussed: Branch Ministries v. Rossotti, 211 F.3d 137 (D.C.Cir.2000) Branch Ministries v. Rossotti, 40 F.Supp.2d 15 (D.D.C.1999) Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel...
Law Meets Gospel
Feb 7, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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President Trump promises to "totally destroy" the Johnson Amendment. What's the Johnson Amendment? This episode answers that question: what it is, why it's the law, what political activity it prohibits, and what political activity it doesn't. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law...
Law Meets Gospel
Jan 31, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh talks with Shelley Jackson and Pastor John Hickey about what religious organizations and nonprofits should do when they find themselves out of compliance with Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) rules to wrap up their conversation about overtime and minimum-wage statutes, regulations, and practices. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to...
Law Meets Gospel
Jan 24, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh talks with Shelley Jackson and Pastor John Hickey about the Obama administration's proposed changes to the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) regulations, the court stay, and strategies for employers to consider while the final rule is uncertain. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law...
Law Meets Gospel
Jan 17, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh talks with Shelley Jackson and Pastor John Hickey about characteristics that might cause the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) to apply to a church and to categories of employees, especially clergy. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast publishes.
Law Meets Gospel
Jan 10, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh speaks with Shelley Jackson and Pastor John Hickey about the ways in which participation in interstate commerce can mean FLSA applies to individual employees. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast publishes.
Law Meets Gospel
Jan 3, 2017 Josh S. Tatum
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Josh speaks with lawyer Shelley Jackson and pastor John Hickey about overtime and minimum-wage requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets Gospel Podcast Patreon.com Sign up to contribute an amount you choose for each episode the Law Meets Gospel Podcast publishes.
Law Meets Gospel
Dec 27, 2016 Josh S. Tatum
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Law Meets Gospel is a podcast informing faith communities about legal issues hosted by Josh Tatum, an Indianapolis lawyer who works with faith communities, nonprofits, businesses, and individuals across the country on a variety of legal issues. In this episode, Josh describes the history of Law Meets Gospel and his vision for the new podcast. Subscribe to the Law Meets Gospel Podcast iTunes RSS Connect to Law Meets Gospel @LawMeetsGospel www.facebook.com/LawMeetsGospel Support the Law Meets...