tv Face the Nation CBS November 3, 2013 10:30am-11:30am EST
michael hayden who ran the national security agency when some of our allies phones were attacked. we'll get analysis from david ignatious of the "washington post," david sanger of the "new york times." cbs news chief legal correspondent jan crawford and cbs news political director john dickerson. as we approach the 50th anniversary of the kennedy assassination we'll talk to former "life" magazine editor dick stolen and granddaughter of abe da bra ma'am zaputa it's a lot but that's what we do at "face the nation." >> schieffer: good morning again we welcome to the broadcast the chairman of the
senate intelligence committee california senator diane feinstein. thank you so much, senator, for coming. you have been a big defender from the beginning of the national security agency but you were clearly upset with the revelation that we were tapping german chancellor angla merkel's cell phone, you said it was a big problem that the empty was unaware. do you believe that that the president didn't know this was happening? >> i can't answer that. i don't know. but i think where allies are close tapping private phones of their's particularly of the leader, the leader is what i'm talking about has much more political liability than probably intelligence viability. and i think we ought to look at it carefully. i believe the president is doing that and there are some exceptions. >> schieffer: do you think that the national security agency has gone too far?
>> well, let me say something about the nsa. i believe the nsa is filled with good patriotic people who want to do the right thing. they follow the orders they're given. the administration controls intelligence. the national intelligence framework is put together by the administration. it begins with the director of national intelligence, it goes to the white house, it's the president, it's the nsc the cabinet and then the framework is formed. now, what happens is, people add to it, state wants this, department of state wants to know this. or somebody else wants to know that. priorities are ranked. as i understand it these are the priorities. one, terrorism. two, support of our military abroad. three, nuclear counter proliferation. four, hard targets. and now cyber. and those are the main areas.
so essentially the nsa is told to do certain things and it does it. what i think we need to do, we work very well with the house committee and leadership, mike rogers and congressman rupersberger is review of the intelligence framework of how all this gets together. what the criteria for inclusion are. then we ought to take a look at all the programs that fall under this because it's not just the metadata collection program which is section 1215. and 702 which is the e-mail program from afar. that's been the big news up to now. these are other programs that are formed in different ways under -- >> schieffer: what you're saying is a full review then decide where we go from there.
>> yes. the white house is doing it. and we're going to begin it if we can get the appropriate staff. >> schieffer: let me ask you about this. a german politics actually visited with edward snowden who dumped all of this information out in to the public arena. met with him last week in russia. he said he would try to enlist his help to investigate the nsa and suggested that he be brought back to this country and given clemency. what would be your reaction to that? >> my reaction would be negative. first of all, this is an american, he was a contractor he was tested. he stripped our system, he had an opportunity if what he was was a whistle blower to pick up the phone to call the house intelligence committee, the senate intelligence committee and say, look, i have some information you ought to see. and we would certainly see him.
maybe both together, maybe separately but we would have seen him and we would have looked at that information. that didn't happen. and now he's done this enormous disservice to our country. and i think the answer is, no clemency. >> schieffer: in other words, if the united states could get their hands on him you would suggest that he be prosecuted. >> that's correct. >> schieffer: let me shift to the roll out of obamacare. this thing seems to be a disaster. it's nothing like the administration said it was going to be. so many things that were supposed to happen didn't happen. where are we on this? >> i think where we are is the divide between policy and technology. it's pretty clear i think to those of us that have been watching this roll out that the technological base was not sufficient. and that the website didn't
function. i felt, and i said this directly to the president's chief of staff, they ought to take down the website until it was right. they believe they need to keep it running that and they can sort out of difficulties that they brought in technological experts from a broad base of the private sector that by the end of november it can be sorted out. and be functioning properly. i don't think there's ever been any website started to do what this website does in the size of this one. i don't make excuse but i think that is pretty much fact of what's happened. >> schieffer: the president said in the beginning that one thing was that if you like the health care program you had you could keep it. we now know there was debate within the administration before he said that as to whether that was actually a promise that could be kept.
should the president not have made that statement? >> well, as i understand it you can keep it up to the time, i hope this is correct, but this is what i've been told, up to the time the bill was enacted. then after that it's a different story. i think that part of it, if true, was never made clear. it is really very unclear right now exactly what the situation is. and, yes, that's a problem. but i think it has to be said. this is a very large major priority and if it can get up and running, it can be, i think, a very positive thing. the big problem here is there are so many destroyers. in the house, in the public, in the private health care sector that just want to destroy. that's not helpful. >> schieffer: i take your point. but the fact is the thing doesn't work. >> the fact is there's a
problem with the startup. i won't go so far right now as to say the plan isn't going to work. once it gets started up. >> schieffer: let me ask you one other thing, quickly, a man walked in to the los angeles airport friday, opened fire on tsa officials with an assault weapon. does this put more pressure on you to revive your efforts to get another assault weapons ban for congress or is that dead? >> well, let me just first of all say, because this happened in california, it happened in my constituents. i have some wounded and dead constituents. let me just pay tribute to tsa agent hernandez. a father of two children, with a wife, shot point blank at his station doing work he believed in and to me is a very, very special person. so to, all of those, my deepest sorrow. having said that, the weapon was
a .223 mp15, the mp stands for military and police. clearly designed not for general consumption. but through practice now general consumption. same gun that was used at aurora. i'm sure i would do a bill, i mean i believe this down deep in my -- bjorn borg do you think there is any way that such a bill could pass? >> no, i don't. i think there's a hammer lock on the congress by the gun owners and gun people and it doesn't matter. now, it's going to be interesting to see whether this weapon was outlawed in california and whether it was purchased in california. >> schieffer: all right. senator, thank you so much. >> you're very welcome, bob. >> schieffer: now to lansing, michigan, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, mike rogers. congressman, what about this
idea, you heard what senator feinstein said about granting clemency to edward snowden and bringing him back to help investigate the national security agency. >> well, the only investigation here is to what extent he knew about the material that he stole and who else he worked with. certainly the russians are not allowing him to stay in the country of russia because they think he's just a nice guy there. is clearly more to this story. i think that is a -- if he wants to come back and open up to the responsibility of the fact that he took and stole information, he violated his oath, he disclosed classified information, that by the way has allowed three different terrorist organization, affiliates of al qaeda to change the way they communicate, i'd be happy to have that discussion with him. but he does need to own up with what he's done. if he wants to talk through why he did it those things that would be the appropriate time and the appropriate way to do it. >> schieffer: you would not
be willing to give him any kind of clemency, i take it? >> no. i don't see any reason. i wouldn't do that. he needs to come back and own up, we can have those conversations if he believes there's vulnerabilities in the system he'd like to disclose you don't do it by committing a crime that puts soldiers' lives at risk in places like afghanistan you don't do that. somehow harrison card here. >> schieffer: with every revelation more pressure to reign in the nsa. do you think that needs to be done? >> you know, this is at the whole problem. we focused a lot on the nsa, bob, but not a lot about what the threat s. you think about the programs all which are legal have the most oversight of any programs in the united states government. it's happened under when the democrats control the congress, when the republicans control the congress, when a republican controlled the white house, when a democrat controlled the white house. the question now isn't how you
reign in the nsa, the object, are they following the law, are they protecting civil ribber -- liberties that's what the oversight committees do. i work well in that function of oversight. the question is, what are the threats to the united states. who is using u.s. networks right now to steal intellectual property like the chinese, the russians and others. we've had cyberattacks against the united states this year from a nation state that exceeds over 300 different 'teams destroy some financial services networks that affects every american. we haven't talked about those things. we've got al qaeda spreading around the world in a way that is frightening, think about it. last year alone some 15,000 terrorist-related deaths. it is the nsa, the cia and others charge to make sure that zero of them happen here. zero. that's our standard. and so what we've asked hem to do is go out and collect information that protects america so every politician in washington, both republican and
democrat are seized up by this hyper partisanship can't wait to put out a press release how terrible our intelligence service are. it's a deer caught in the headlights how he deals with what all of us have done very careful work both republicans and democrats to oversee engaging in the activities that protect american. >> schieffer: do you take him at his word when he says that that we're told he didn't know about, for example, that we were eve dropping on the german chancellor's cell phone, could that that be right? >> i think there going to be some best actor awards coming out of the white house this year. best supporting actor awards out of the european union. this is a bit shocking to me that folks who are actively engaged in espionage efforts around the world, that is a french word, after all. some notion that there is this big mystery under all of these years that some people just
didn't have an understanding about how we collect information to protect the united states. to me is wrong. unfortunately that -- all of this is that victim of this hyper partisanship where people can't wait to get out in front of the cameras and say, boy, i sure don't like those intelligence services. here is the problem, bob. we did this in the 1930s. we turned it off 1929, secretary of state at that time where they were collecting information to proceed america said, we shouldn't do this, this is unseemly. turned it off. that led to a whole bunch of misunderstanding that led to world war ii that killed millions of people. we did the same darn thing leading up to the osama bin laden effort where we didn't want to talk, didn't coordinate, didn't want to get certain things it led to 9/11. that took the lives of 3,000 americans. we learned a valuable lesson. need to focus on the bad guys, they are not u.s. intelligence agencies. u9q good guys at the end of the day. >> schieffer: let me ask you about one of the alleged bad
guys which we apparently killed last week during a drone strike in pakistan. was this a big deal? >> it was a big deal. i'll tell you why it happened. by the way all of those intelligence agencies, i mean all of them that people of both parties decided are bad, contributed to leading up to what is a very difficult, long term collection of all sources of intelligence to make sure you can find an individual and do something about it. reason this guy is a bad guy, in p 2007 he brought together all of the pakistan, taliban, wanted to focus on at that time the pakistani military but also made threats to the night states, especially masud who said, we're going to conduct operations in the united states there's a relationship between the gentleman that showed up in times square in the individual that was taken off the battlefield here very -- not a long time ago. this is the guy that is trying to create the problems both for
pakistan, he relates with afghanistan taliban, these are the folks that close 500 schools, most of them girls' schools in the eastern provinces of afghanistan. he's part of the hakani network which is basically a giant organized crime group operating in the tribal areas of pakistan who have been involved in supporting al qaeda. taliban and others. this was a bad guy, by the way there's some information recently that concerned us about the safety of our troops. i feel a little better for our troops today than i did before this event happened. remember, this is the world we live in, bob, that's what's so frustrating for diane and myself. we're dealing with these threats every single day. they are big, they are real, they affect real people. i'll tell you we should protect our soldiers in the field and we should also protect their families who are here back in the united states, we should use every means that is legal, protect civil liberties and gets
the job done that's what we're doing. that's the conversation i think we should be everything. >> schieffer: let me ask you one final question about the rollout of obama care. you came down very hard on hhs, dr. sebelius when she came before congress last week. you said that what disturbed you most of all was that people were feeding in to this website vital information about themselves. you were very concerned about the security of that information that it was now just out there for people to take. are you satisfied yet that this has been corrected or will be corrected? >> well, no. what was really shocking to me is even by their own words they admitted that there was a high degree of risk when they were offering the website to go public, they never told anybody about that. they said that they think the risk was acceptable. their information wasn't at risk, american people's information was at risk. they're trying to change a tire
on a car going 75 miles an hour down the expressway. that is not the way cybersecurity works. and unfortunately both diane and i both know the real threats to these systems when you have nation states, organized crime groups and criminals trying to get information that is now available on these websites. they need to take the site down, stabilize it meaning they can't ton add code every week. and then they need to stress test the system. unfortunately, bob, none of that has happened they admit it's going to take six months. that is unacceptable for the protection of privacy of americans' information. >> schieffer: i'm sorry we have to leave it there. thank you so much, mr. chairman. back in a minute. >> thanks, bob. [ male announcer ] 1.21 gigawatts. today, that's easy. ge is revolutionizing power. supercharging turbines with advanced hardware and innovative software. using data predictively to help power entire cities. so the turbines of today... will power us all...
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leadership. the intentions were very high intelligence priorities for the life of the national security agency. it's nothing special it certainly nothing new. >> schieffer: could it be possible that the president didn't know about it if we were listening in on her cell phone? >> i think the president's statement at face value. i can imagine circumstances where he wouldn't. it's impossible for me to imagine that the nsc, the administration, the white house didn't know. and the fact that they didn't rush in to tell the president this was going on points out what i think is a fund menthol fact. >> schieffer: that is? >> this wasn't exceptional. this is what we were expect to do. >> schieffer: let me ask you this, if we stop spying on angleca merkel will the chinese also stand down their efforts? >> i don't think so. i know the chance already's embarrassed, we're a friend. this revelation put her in a very difficult political spot. that, bob, frankly in the world of espyian original the fact that the united states may have
been intercepting her text messages is the least of the worries in berlin right now. >> schieffer: are they spying on us? >> who, the germans? i would just assume that almost all other nations in the world conduct espy i don't know madge. what we did as prudent mr. suffer defend ourselves. we had a grand debate about president obama's blackberry. the most powerful country on earth was don't use your blackberry. there are a lot of intelligence services who are going to try to intercept it. >> schieffer: the germans seem to think that edward snowden should be brought back to this country, either that or taken to germany and given a chance to help investigate the national security agency. what is i didn't reaction? >> first of all i would welcome edward snowden being brought back to this country. but i know one german parliamentarian is suggesting that germany give mr. snowden a platform to reveal more american secrets. my view on that, that would kind
of tend to moot the whole debate here about whether or not we're spying on a friend. >> schieffer: i take it you do not, i've asked this, if you thought he was a hero i believe you said you thought he was a if he tech for. >> yes. >> schieffer: do you think there has been harm not just our intelligence gathering but also our influence by these revelations? >> absolutely. look, i understand the situation in germany now with the chancellor is embarrassed. but let's assume that this was discovered not through press accounts but through german counter intelligence. the last thing the germans would have done would have made this public. they would have come to us privately and we would have solved this problem. what this has done has destroyed, threatened, important relationships we have. >> schieffer: i'm sorry but we have to leave it there. thanks so much. we'll be back in a moment. i'll have some personal thoughts. t 40 years the united states population is going to grow by over 90 million people,
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>> schieffer: maybe i was thinking about that movie "dumb and dumber" but i watched the disastrous roll out of obamacare coming as it did on the heels of the republican shut down of the government, the phrase that kept running through my mind was worse and worser. is worser a word? well, actually, it is. we looked it up. the shutdown was the worst but this thing is worser. if we thought the partisan blather couldn't get thicker or sillier than it got during the shutdown, well, we now know. by now we have heard from all the people whose fault it wasn't. we've heard all the talking points and some of the critics were all but foaming at the mouth. it was the washington we have come to know. all talk, all the time, but at the end of the day just another example of how government seems incapable of making things better and it never seems to learn. does anyone believe that successful start-ups like amazon or google would risk launching
their programs before they were properly tested? there may be a lesson there if those involved could spend less time refining the talking points and more time actually trying to make things work. the way this thing is going it is a good thing we have a word like worser. back in a minute. s hard. know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives,
vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. >> schieffer: we'll be right back at you with more "face the nation." ,,,,,,,,,,
>> schieffer: welcome back to "face the nation." for analysis on this news and there is a lot of news. david ignatious, columnist for the "washington post." david sanger the chief washington correspondent fort the "new york times." our cbs news chief legal correspondent jan crawford our other own john dickerson. i don't know where to start i'm just going to pull something out of the air say we'll start with nsa surveillance. i guess nobody is surprised find out that great powers spy on anyone. is anyone surprised that the president and white house denied that he was aware of this? can that be? >> well, we'll find out. i think there will be careful examination of this. he gets his president's daily briefing every morning they go through precisely the
information nsa collects. that's the prize trophy in the briefing every morning. i think it's likely that the president wouldn't drill down on the precise individuals except in the cases where involve u.s. war fighters overseas, i'm sure he knows it's karzai saying to chief of staff, whether he knew it was angela merkel talking on her cell phone, i don't know. what we've seen is the nsa is just one of those organizations that if it can do it, it will do it. these are young, techno-phyles they solve these puzzles for the challenge they got out of control. i like to the sorcerers, all the buckets of water. it just got out of control. >> schieffer: what it does kind of make you wonder, doesn't it, david, maybe just because we're reporters, but i'm sitting here reading this or getting this intelligence brief, wouldn't you say, how do you know that? >> in the first year of presidency i could image in a
president not knowing it. by year five you have to say, at some point he's likely to of a asked that question. if he didn't, it's almost certain that many of his national security aides would have. because while the president gets as david indicated this presidential daily brief, it's an analytical product. what his aides get are the product and the annex beneath it of the raw intelligence. so, that then raises the question of oversight which is, angela merkel was not a high proceed court target, nobody was worried about germany. or nuclear proliferation or so forth. she is part of what david describes, i think quite rightly as system that was mostly on auto pilot. and they have collected this kind of thing from allys back to the days of the cold ward. >> schieffer: isn't this -- i mean the level of hypocrisy here on the part of our allies. i mean i'm just aghast to find this out. everybody has known about this
just support of the way it was. those of us in washington know these kinds of things are going on. >> mike rogers said it in a humorous way, espionage is a french word. everybody does do this this is just part of conduct of foreign policy since u.s. revolutionary war times, since the beginning of history you have had pies. what is different is technology, the capability to listen in to everything. and i think that that is what the administration is dealing with is technology so different we'll have to think about new rules of the road. >> i was going to say in this question of running amuck being on auto pilot you used that borrowed, that ask what sect of state kerry said. you add this technological capability if it's running on auto pilot and people who are overseeing don't know what it's doing, then it has this control and overseers don't know what it's doing and one of the amazing things what nsa was doing with google and yahoo!
scraping all of their data out of the area that ability does make it seem like the nsa has found new mothers for itself that the people who were supposed to other sees, supposed to keep this kelp del cat wall between safety and civil liberties they don't know what is going on. >> the mystery here is the between what john said they can do and what they actually are doing. in the case of google and yahoo! even in the case of angela merkel we know that they can get at the cloud, we know that they can get out her cell phone. the mystery that we don't know as a reporting target for us, these days, how much are they pulling down. and on that they have been extremely quiet. let me -- >> schieffer: as i'm listening, i'm thinking, i guess it's a little unforce natural that didn't let the nsa put together the -- for obamacare. because we talk about on this side of the table how wonderful and these great capabilities. i have never seen anything that
flopped the way this thing. >> the thing is when you hear all these technological advances that are leading to surveillance people just assume in their daily lives. technology at some point is going to work. i think that was going in to the website. something nobody -- americans would not have expected people in the white house that were not testing this getting some clues leading unto the launch. now you have david axelrod saying, this website is a debacle. i think the problem now for the white house is that you can fix a broken website. but this is more than a broken website because for a lot of americans, this isn't just introduction to a website. it's that are introduction to the affordable compare fact. if you go back, gallup did an interesting poll, 71% of uninsured americans didn't know, weren't familiar with the affordable care act. now what are they seeing? broken website. cancellation letters going out to millions of americans saying, they're going to lose their existing coverage. something no one expected
because the president repeatedly said if you write your plan you can keep it. notice, is that new premiums might be higher in some cases. so all of this kind of goes in to play they can't get on the website to find out more information. it's this perfect storm of a lack of information, information they're getting that they didn't expect a president who made promises that it appeared, at least a lot of people in the white house knew he wouldn't be able to keep. >> schieffer: you base that on what -- there's story this morning in the "washington post" that details before the president made those statements that if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. that they were debating in the white house whether he should say -- >> the journal had a great piece yesterday talking about that as well. the internal debate suggesting this was a little more than the president at the "new york times" put it this morning, misspeaking here. because there was apparently, now being reported this extensive debate whether he
should say that. policy advisors knew that wasn't going to happen. that these plans will have to change to meet the new minimum requirement of obama care including ones before march of 2010 which is where they're trying to draw this line now. those plans also have to -- bob job, what happens sneer are they going to have to post bone? you have a deadline where people don't get their health insurance by certain time they're going to fined. but of a website that they can't get on to get their health care. >> so the problem is there could have been -- there could be some delays in different ways to delay it but the problem with delay is that while it might help out those people who are desperate to get on to the obamacare program, the insurance companies don't want that because they want mechanism to force people to sign up. because of these risk pools. they need lots ever healthy people getting these risk pools to keep the prices down. you want some things to force people in if you elongate the period that they can come in or take away the fine for not
signing it up reduces the appreciate that you are creates a policy problem. what you have now you have some political problems and some bad pr problems but this would create potentially a policy problem. problem is that lot of democrats who have defended the affordable kay act those up for reelection in 2014 now see a real problem. more than just a website as jan detailed. it's now a problem both with the overall health care but then it's also a government problem. there's a story in the "washington post" today that is really amazing about a memo that was written by david cutler to the white house, white house health care advisor in 2010 saying you're not ready toe roll this out. then you get in to a very big problem democrats are going to have to defend which is can can a government handle the question like this this and republicans have all along argued, no, it can't. that gets to be a very big problem that can spin out of control. >> schieffer: you know, i think this goes beyond politics and fall out for republicans and democrats. this is about health care and a law has been passed that people are going to have to have it.
now it's difficult to figure out how they're going to get it. what happens here, david? >> well, i think the reality is that we're going to stumble through a period of trial and error. the only thing i'd say is that there's no technology success streets in the world, he is specially in america that doesn't have a kind of rough break-in period. we have a zero defect culture for washington. anything in washington has to be perfect the first time out because it's so political. but in the real world, companies have beta products that crash all the time. and don't work. when microsoft began everyone of us had error messages that drove us crazy it gets better. that's what will happen here. i think people should just think, more like maybe what they experienced dealing with technology companies than it is like what they get from government which is rulely basically. >> schieffer: it occurs to me as you look -- you step back
from this look how other countries are looking at the united states right now. it's just one more case of how we can't seem to get out of our own way. i mean, we have the government in constant gridlock, we're not making decisions the way that great powers traditionally do. and now this is just one more thing for people to say, what is going on over there? what are you guys doing to yourselves? >> the government gridlock raises a question of whether or not we can make the policy decisions we need to be a global leader. the health care, computer system issues raise the question of whether we can execute. and execution has been -- one senior member of the obama administration said to me this week, that they were dealing with all of this their real achille's heel throughout. just for exactly the reason that david laid out that we all seen computer systems that roll out badly. always getting microsoft updates to our operating systems and so
forth. that would have argued in favor of the obama administration making sure that this system was being test run for six months or a year before it came out. which is what most technology companies will tell you in large, complex piece of software requires. instead they gave this weeks. and that is actually i think where the investigative focus should be, why they tried to go do this so fast and so on the fly. >> in some cases they gave days, companies that were going to be working and needing the systems to tap in to, online insurance, private insurance companies they got the information from the white house two days before the site went live they weren't able to get down the testing that they would have required. yes, this website is going to get fixed. they're saying by the end of november it will be fixed they brought in a management consultant, people from google now working on it. october 1 was the launch date for the president's signature
achievement. and with great fanfare they pointed to that date. they had health care clinics across the country signing people up for appointments that day to get people in for this promise of affordable health care. on day one, six people were able to sign up. that suggests when you're talking about confidence of the american people in execution of what government can do, that is not inspire a lot of confidence. >> schieffer: what happens now, jan? >> i think what john pointed out more cultural delay, that raises a problem. the sick people who have been so anxious for this insurance because they have been denied coverage because they have preexisting continues they are the ones who are going to get it. what has to happen is that the young healthy as they call in the insurance industry, they have to sign up to make this whole thing work. and if they don't sign up they have no incentive to sign up because there's not a penalty, then you get in this concern about the death spiral. >> schieffer: do you think will they delay the day when people have to sign up? >> as john said, it's a empty
of political problem for democrats in 2014 i think the concerns, real concerns the white house can point to, the valid concerns, insurance industries can point to causing the program, entire program to almost potentially collapse if you get this death spiral with only sick people sign can up is going to push against any delay. democrats will start noticing that. that's what i'm hearing. >> schieffer: back to david, what happens now on this nsa as revelations come out. >> two two reviews, one is internal review, there's an external one of five former members of the intell community, legal scholars who are supposed to report by the middle of december. and say that report will be quite public. but i think what you're discovering right now is that the white house is standing firm on the domestic collection of both data about all the phone calls we all made. i think in the foreign arena, the angela merkel interceptions you're going to see far more
oversight. i think that is what you were hearing when you heard senator feinstein today issue those complaints. i don't know how widespread her view is. but my guess is it's going to be increasingly difficult to justify doing this kind of surveillance on allies who you need as partners in not only intelligence collection, but making sure that our cybersystems are safe. >> schieffer: friend of mine said to me, david, we'll fix the intelligence, the damage that's been done to our intelligence gathering. but he said, that is going to be harder to fix how damaged our influence has been. >> i think this is really hurt u.s. national security, president obama came in hoping to repair relations with allies, this has shattered whatever progress was made. one thing that i've heard people in the white house talking about in the last few days, fascinates me. people in the intelligence world say the fourth amendment doesn't apply to foreigners. we may have privacy issues at home but overseas, different thing. they are beginning to ask whether there should be
procedures for foreign nationals that minimize their personal data when the metadata they cull is collected so that there's not the -- something closer to the way we treat our own citizens. that would be a huge change and they're talking about it. >> schieffer: something we're going to be talking about for awhile both of these subjects, i think. we'll be back and talk city bout one of the most fascinating aspects and stories to come out of the assassination of john kennedy. ♪ man: [ laughs ] those look like baby steps now. but they were some pretty good moves. and the best move of all? having the right partner at my side. it's so much better that way. [ male announcer ] have the right partner at your side. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company.
the zapruder film. abraham zaprudrer was a local man to record the visit of president john kennedy. it was through his camera that america saw the clearest moving pictures of the assassination of a president. the film was vital evidence to the warren commission's investigation and is now kept in a climate controlled vault at the national archives. the camera used by zapruder is on display at the museum in washington. america got its first look at the zaprud,r film not on television but in print. just after the assassination "life" magazine printed 31 frames from the film, possibly one of the biggest exclusives in history. joining us now, the editor of "life" magazine and abe bra ma'am zapruder's granddaughter, alex an california they are
contributors to a new commemorative "life" magazine book "the day kennedy died" thank you both for coming. alexandra your grandfather, what he manufactured women's clothing in dallas. >> that's right. >> schieffer: he loved president kennedy, he went down to the plaza that day to see him. tell us how that came about. >> i don't know if you know this, but he actually left his camera at home that morning. his office was right next door to the plaza he went, but overcast day. so he hadn't planned originally to film the president. then he was persuaded by his long time assistant, lillian wrongers to go home get the camera, which he did, luckily for history. then went down to the plaza as i understand it he took sort of tried out a number of spots, took some test shots got ready then got up on that parapet with marilyn behind him, who was his receptionist and got ready to film the president.
>> schieffer: did he realize what he had when he -- >> i think he did. i'm told that after -- right afterwards he was screaming and distraught and hysterical that he definitely saw the president murdered through the lens of the camera. >> schieffer: and what did he do? did he develop the film immediately? >> what happened that day is so kind of amazing and involved but he was apparently sort of wandering on the plaza a little bit, still very much -- >> schieffer: in shock. >> he was approached by a reporter from the "dallas morning news" who saw the camera. who said, what do you have there? he said, i only want to talk to the federal authorities. it was terry mccormick found the head of secret service in dallas and brought him to jennifer -- my grandfather's manufacturing company. they went through fairly long and involved process of getting the pictures developed. it wasn't so easy to develop
eight millimeter in those days. >> schieffer: and you were out in los angeles with "life" magazine you heard about this, your bosses told to you get to dallas. how did you find out about this film? >> we saw it on the ap ticker which is the way we got news before the internet. got the news, called new york, they said how fast can you get to dallas. within an hour, four of us were on a plane. back then no tsa, you could run for a plane almost taxiing out and get on which is what we did. we landed in dallas not long after air force one went back to washington with the president's body. >> schieffer: and when did you learn of this film? >> about two hours later i was in a hotel, our stringer, part-time correspondent called me say she had heard from a fellow reporter wood heard from a come from blah, blah, blah. that a businessman had been in
the plaza with a movie camera. i said, holy cow. what is his name i don't know how to spell it but i can pronounce it $apruder i looked in the phone book, never been in called before. there was zapruder, comma, abraham. i called that number finally at 11:00 that evening i got a very weary and distressed abraham zapruder. >> schieffer: made an appointment to come see you, he wouldn't see you that night. what happened after that? >> he said come to my office at 9:00. i got there at 8:00. which is lesson for journalism students job journalism, being early is being on time. i got there first. i saw the film with two secret service agents. we all knew the president had been assassinated. we had no idea what it looked like. suddenly there is that film.
when that head shot comes, it was probably the most dramatic moment of my career. >> schieffer: and you paid him for this. what did you pay for this? >> for print rights that day we paid $50,000. i went back two days litter after new york saw this incredible piece of film. all rights for $150,000. >> schieffer: i'm told later that his relatives told you the reason you got it, that others were willing to pay as much but you had been polite when you talked to him. >> i talked to his partner. wanted to get more details and speaking -- he said, do you know where he got that film? what do you mean, money? we promise not to exploit it, which is very important to him. he said, do you know why you got it not those other people out in the hall? i had no idea. because you were a gentleman. >> schieffer: isn't that something. alexandra, your grandfather thought about this, this had an
impact on his life from then on. >> definitely. i think it's just, he really did love the president. all of our family were real kennedy people. my aunt had been down on love field to greet the president. my dad had just taken a job in the justice department under the kennedy administration. so it was very personal to him, i think. he was devastated as the rest of the nation was. but also i think it was always a very painful for him to be personally attached and associated with this very traumatic moment. >> schieffer: he was so afraid that someone might exploit it. that's why he was -- thank you all very much. we'll be right back.
this morning, new hampshire republican senator kelly will be joining the group. thanks for watching "face the nation." when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven.