tv BBC Newsnight WHUT October 16, 2010 7:00pm-7:30pm EDT
>> union bank offers unique insight and expertise in a range of industries. what can we do for you? >> we are a nation of explorers. we seek new ways of living, of thinking, and of expressing ourselves. we take risks. we learn from experience. and we keep moving forward. that is why we encourage and celebrate the explorer in all of us. >> and now "bbc newsnight." >> israel is riled. as diplomatic ties deteriorate, we look at the military options
on fears iran could be capable of building a nuclear bomb. >> there is [unintelligible] iran cannot produce its first nuclear bomb. >> a special report from indiana, one of america's poorest places. buy a house of $800 billion of fiscal stimulus. as the iron lady hits 85 we discuss the legacy of margaret thatcher. thousands of supporters waved the flag around of hezbollah. a border town in lebanon and hit hard during the 2006 war. they listened to president ahmadinejad aguayo against israel. it was a visit described as
provocative. he said israel would disappear. earlier he defended iran's nuclear program. we want to keep -- they want to keep us in the dark. how close is iran to a nuclear capability? here is our diplomatic editor. >> president ahmadinejad's a visit to lebanon on provides an opportunity to garner support. the nuclear program. iran insists it provides an opportunity to define israel and the west. the i iranian leader pledged to pass on with that project. he said the west claimed iran was trying to build an atomic bomb, not that iran was seeking to spread science. the west wanted to keep them in
the dark. in recent months the emphasis has been on diplomacy, but as iran pushes on there are many voices who argued that the military options should be actively prepared. one recent study gauged the likelihood of an israeli strike at 50%. this derives from a perception that the enrichment iranian activities have reached a tipping point. >> there is a consensus among leading intelligence community is that iran cannot produce its first nuclear bomb in a year. if iran is not stopped the only way to stop them before they get the bomb might be [unintelligible] >> weast reactor sites formed
the heart of iran's nuclear program. we can go in on the specific [unintelligible] it shows the size of the country's investment indeed enrichment program. in 2000 to construct in -- construction was clearly visible, as was a service tunnel which was being built. in this latest imagery obtained from a commercial satellite last month, all of those facilities have been buried so that today even the entrance of that service tunnel is covered with a building. >> one of the most significant things is washing iran. they in richmond chambers underground. -- watching iran bury the enrichment chambers underground.
>> there are very large squares being buried. know it is just old dirt because it has been buried. yes, the roads have been paved, they are receiving some shrubbery. it does look like a finished site. >> as the site has reached maturity there have been some beautification is going on. pulling out to a wider perspective, the military nature is clear. the facility is rate to defend against ground or air attacks -- rigged to defend itself. >> it will be a very complicated and dangerous operation.
[unintelligible] but this will be much more complicated. it can be done. >> what would an israeli attack look like? used withcould be each one delivering two bombs. f-16's be used to strike also. another 10 would be used to hit missile sites and 38 to suppress missions. a total of 80 aircraft would need every one of the country's tanker force to get there. israel would have to -- it is hard to see how they would get more than one pass at their targets which poses questions about how much damage they really do.
>> one of the hallmarks of the enrichment program is it is very difficult to bomb away. you cannot destroy knowledge or expertise in a scientific community. whereas the syrian reactor bombed in 2007, that had a bottleneck. for a program like iran's, there is no credible military strike option that would end the program. the israeli government might feel public fear of the iranian program would demand a some sort of action. the air defenses are weak, particular they since russia cancelled an order for missiles. israel has fired air strikes
against syria and iraq eight nuclear reactors. iranian leaders have threatened dire retaliation. in new york mahmoud ahmadinejad said if iran was attacked by israel there would be a war without limits. weapons like the ballistic missile could hit israel. some strategists think iran's response should be more carefully judge. >> once you start firing service with missiles you are leaving fingerprints that people can retaliate against. if you crank up your circuits it is hard to find [unintelligible] there will be people firing things in gaza and 11 non all of
which would create a the hornets nest. >> today's a visit to lebanon where president ahmadinejad has been received by his supporters underlines iran's options for using proxies' to retaliate. american strategy is to issue sanctions while supporting opposition groups inside iran. hillary clinton urged iranians to seize their own destiny. >> mrs. clinton was -- she has reached out to those who want to revolt in order to damage our secret government. she has said the u.s. will try to protect those who are spreading this in iraq. >> the challenges -- chances of escalation with hezbollah are high.
the seven tush option provides israel with a middle way. this is the latest civil nuclear power plant. it has recently been fueled up by the russians. some reports say this is due to a leak, but others blame a computer virus that has dropped -- struck hundreds of computers. how will it provide a middle way between the -- >> whether it comes from the pentagon or western hackers. we don't really know, but that is one mechanism affecting their system. it will not close down. it will not stop the program. the program is pretty on
schedule. i always still council that nuclear is not the only thing, there is biological, chemical. >> iran possibility to retaliate reveals something. iran has already accumulated sufficient means to deter all but its most ardent enemies and considering military action. >> there are three weeks until we discover what judgments americans will pass on the state of their country. president obama took power with a country in meltdown. he has spent close to $800 billion in an effort to get the economy going again. our economics editor baytown of
gary, indiana. -- visits the town of karie, indiana. ♪ ♪ >> gary was once called the magic city of steel. it took a thriving music industry to rival debate -- rile --rival detroit. >> there is gary college. this would have been some of the classroom areas. >> they call this urban exploring. this man is a veteran. >> there have been looters but the majority is --
he is a photographer who specializes in -- the ruins tell the story of an american century. >> it is like walking through the ruins of a civilization. >> though his population has been hard, 100,000 people live there. one-third of them are poor. there are no restaurants or chain stores. downtown hotel is see through. the city government now stands on the edge of bankruptcy. the ruins of a powerhouse like open to all newcomers. >> this is when they were
spending money to get america out of the depression. >> absolutely. >> it is gone like everything else. >> it closed down in the late 70's. >> it is weird to be in a city where every piece of social infrastructure like the church is all gone. how does that feel? >> it is en eyrie failing. -- eerie feeling. >> if ever there was a place that needed fiscal stimulus it is gary. president obama has spent money to revitalize places like this. the stimulus is failing. int eh process it has created massive divisions. >> they found out what they told me is true.
anything can be found in gary. you don't have to be here long to find out gary is an sighting place to live. -- exciting place to live. two years ago the police could only feel five cars on a night shift. the stimulus has bought 96 new cars. >> send me some units. >> the police surveillance system spots gunfire. [unintelligible] >> be quiet.
i will need someone on the south alley. >> the officer is the only policeman on the scene for several minutes. soon help arrives. 7 gary police department cars are now here. my guess is at least half of these are fiscal stimulus money cars. the police know the problems underlying the crime rate, housing, unemployment have hardly been touched. the city applied for $25 million to demolish derelict buildings. it got money for new street lights which has not produced many -- gary is a democratic
voting city in a republican- controlled state. they must cut their property tax in half and cut spending. stimulus money can only be spent on big projects like the school system. a stimulus is a form of redistribution from richer communities. once you leave , it is easy to find people who are against the stimulus. >> i am a tax cutter. >> jackie is the republican candidate for the second congressional district. >> we don't empower private- sector jobs in places like gary. the recovery is not at the hands of the government. >> you would not have spent the money. you would not have spent money on police equipment.
>> just because it has gone to it does not mean it has done anything. that is not the key is. >> what ever has been delivered, the fact remains by 2012 the tax will not cover its police and ambulance service, let alone anything else. gary has used stimulus money to reorganize its schools, like this one dedicated to the performing arts. ♪ >> many of these students come from neighborhoods classified as gang-infested. a small number are homeless.
♪ >> we have very good training and then we have the academics that would help us succeed, because we can sing but if we don't have the education we have nothing. >> students note there is controversy around federal dollars, but they said this -- >> the ones paying taxes, they should keep paying because we are going to be the future doctors, lawyers. i feel they need to be supportive and trusting that we will be successful. that we will bring great things to this nation. ♪
>> the money spent here should deliver benefits long term, but these students live in a city whose downtown district still looks like a disaster zone. >> margaret thatcher is still a towering presence. [unintelligible] famously said there was no such thing as society. are the thread still woven through david cameron's politics? a new mp, but first the iron lady. >> maybe bring harmony, be bringing truth. -- maybe bring truth. >> i don't think there will be a
woman prime minister in our lifetime. the lady is not for turning. >> that was a danger to our boys. that is why that ship was sunk. >> congratulate our forces. no, no, no. >> i am joined now by [unintelligible] thank you for joining us. david cameron, is the more a radical than margaret thatcher? >> i don't think he is more radical. they are very different people. they are both -- they could not be more different. david cameron is much more like tony blair. blair was probably a tory, but
cameron is much more touchy- feely, very eloquent, but not analytical. his approach has something in common but there are also huge differences. >> do you agree [unintelligible] >> margaret thatcher to find herself by saying there is no such thing as society. -- defined herself. david cameron said there is a such thing as society. he is very radical. he is perceived as radical. >> margaret thatcher was misinterpreted when she said -- what she was saying is people should do that. it is not society.
it is people and families. she was making a point which was perfectly fair and it was taken out of context. what they both have in common is a feeling they governor brigitte government got too big. -- government got too big. that is why there was this huge privatization program. it was because we had a dominating state. >> you talk about david cameron -- there was a feeling after the demise that she was toxic. i think that has dissipated. >> i think it has dissipated. what did happen was that david cameron rightly or wrongly felt that the conservative party had to be re-branded.
you cannot achieve anything in politics. that re-branding exercise was distancing itself. >> the irony is there is installed just building up. -- there is nostalgia building up. >> the it -- she is still greatly beloved. she said i believed in consensus. david cameron does believe in consensus. >> it was interesting that margaret thatcher would never entertain the idea of a coalition. >> david cameron did not want a coalition. he was seeking to get [unintelligible] it was just an accident.
>> do you think she entertained the idea of negotiating? >> something they have in common is decisiveness. he took that decisively. arnold schwarzenegger described himself as a soul mate of david cameron. i think that issue is fighting on the center ground. >> i would not have wanted arnold schwarzenegger as a soul mate. he has made a mess of california. you have to realize that the situation that margaret thatcher inherited was far worse. there were bigger changes. >> onto the issue of class. if you said to margaret thatcher the prime minister will be another tory, she would have
never believed that. that would not have been hurt preferred option. >> margaret thatcher always look at where you were going. >> she would not have minded one way or the other. she was interested in people wherever they came from. >> i believe she would have looked at david cameron as a strong leader that was prepared to bring change. >> that is all from this week. goodbye. >> funding is made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, the john d. macarthur foundation, and union bank. >> ia, kevin bacon.
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