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tv   Worlds Apart With Oksana Boyko  RT  July 13, 2014 10:29pm-11:01pm EDT

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called criminologist you studied the soviet union later russia for several decades and i'm sure you would agree with me that. there has always been a considerable level of mistrust between in our two nations but i wonder if the rhetoric used by both sides has ever been asked colorful and asked passive aggressive as it is nowadays well i think we're almost back to the worst of the cold war underbridge now and the early reagan days in the early one nine hundred eighty s. after the soviet invasion of afghanistan that's when relations really hit their bottom we're not there yet but if we continue in this direction will be there well i just use this word passive aggressive and i think you know both sides seem to believe that they're defending their national interest or that national values and see the other side as an aggressor but it seems to me that this aggression is a very different caliber because the united states has the whole list of countries that it essentially ruins through intervention whereas russia is charged with one
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count of quote unquote bloodless an exception is that really fear to compare the two well you know we haven't seen the end of ukraine yet but if you go back into history you know russian then soviet intervention in. afghanistan in hungary and even it is germany in one nine hundred fifty three not exactly very pleasant the u.s. intervention was in afghanistan in two thousand and one and that was after nine eleven and the jury's still out on what's going to happen there the big american mistake of course was in iraq but dr friedman i think your reply to my question is very telling here because most examples of the quote unquote soviet aggression in fact the human example that you just mentioned the invasion of afghanistan it dates back to the soviet times where is all the examples that russia can cite its example . vantage of american aggression are very very recent isn't that actually. an
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instance of how americans really view russia through the prism of the soviet union you know seeing russia as these ghost or the bogeyman all of the soviet union whereas the american aggression and the american policy is a very much current well i'm not sure i'd agree with you on that i mean. there was an effort for cooperation between the u.s. and russia but in two thousand and six if you remember after hamas won the elections in the palestinian legislative the said assembly mr putin said hamas is not on our terrorist list number one and it's a big blow to american foreign policy in the middle east number two that's an example which is followed after that of what i would call mr putin zero sum game diplomacy where what russia gains the u.s. loses and vice versa i heard you say many times that putin is
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a logically trying to play this zero sum game while obama is going for a win win but i wonder who just who actually won from obama's policies because if you look at his approval ratings he himself seems to be losing not to mention the people of libya the people of syria the people of ukraine and the list can go on and on what is this win win i mean who is winning from this win when i wouldn't characterize mr obama's policies as win when i would characterize him with the following words i got us out of iraq i'm getting us out of afghanistan i'm not getting involved in syria and now i'm not getting involved in iraq again so basically the u.s. is withdrawing while the russians are moving forward we see this in a case to try to replace the u.s. in egypt with arms supplies trying to replace to a certain extent the u.s. in iraq also with arms supplies and not being helpful as in the case of hamas now
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when they have this charge of russia not being how for is over often voiced by policymakers in washington what's wrong with not being helpful to the united states is that such a big a crime i mean after all it's a lot of playing fellow that everybody is das what he or she or the country seems to be in its national interest no but we're talking about helpful to international peace. in two thousand and six russia promised it would get hamas to agree to make peace with israel eight years later it hasn't happened and putin is prefer to play hamas as anti american card than constructive peace building but mr friedman that the arab palestinian conflict is not the only threat to the peace in the middle east i mean since then america has very nicely and very calls that involve itself in a number of conflicts sleepiest syria. you know the instability in the you know you can't blame russia for not you know labeling hamas as
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a terrorist organization as being the only decisive factor of why the whole region is on fire the region is on fire starting with syria because of russian intervention and iranian intervention if the russians had not put in so much military aid to the syrian regime of hafez assad had not protected the assad regime three times at the u.n. from serious resolutions condemning its actions including killing more than one hundred fifty thousand people then you might have had a more positive resolution at the geneva two conference but it you need to to russia chose to side one hundred percent with assad and the geneva two conference fell but dr friedman let's take comparable cases from the region the case of iraq the case of libya you know russia play along with the united states and libya does leave will look like a positive example of a burgeoning democracy what about iraq you know russia did object to george w.
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bush invading iraq but it did not stop americans look at the country well let's take each case separately in the case of libya gadhafi then in charge threaten to massacre the people of benghazi at the time that then russian president medvedev went along with the no fly zone which helped protect the people of benghazi. the key american mistake was after the fall of gadhafi not being heavily involved politically to ensure that the chaos which unfortunately occurred didn't occur in the case of iraq it's a very different ballgame you have mr mollett of iraq who eliminated the kurds alienated the sunny and remember the u.s. pulled out of iraq in two thousand and ten really weakening whatever leverage the united states had except for supply which hasn't gotten there yet of f. sixteen i agree that we should approach all these cases individually but they all
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have one common denominator and this is the involvement of being of the united states and i understand that as an american citizen you would be feeling compelled to defend american foreign policy especially on the russian t.v. not for but as a as a scholar i hope objective calling dontcha think that the american foreign policy creates more problems than it solved well let me start by saying i'm not a defender of american policy here i think obama's policies in the middle east have been very close to a disaster his failure to intervene in syria when he could have and there would have been a more positive result will go down as the biggest stain in his in the character of the united states there i think his decision to pull out of iraq before a power sharing system had been set up with maliki in two thousand and ten was a very big mistake and i think we're seeing the results of this now so please i'm not a defender of u.s. policy i think mr obama's made
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a number of mistakes my criticism of russia is however the mr putin is playing a zero sum game politics instead of being willing to cooperate to solve some of these very serious but the international comedy let me challenge this exact point because we often hear that being voiced in the american media that you know russia's policy of visit the syria for example is dictated by russia's own corrupt interests you know the intention. keep its base entire tool to keep syria as a major client for its weaponry i wouldn't have been much easier for russia to strike a deal with washington to oust assad rather than you know a facing this very significant and pretty heated confrontation with the united states it seems to me that you know presenting russia as simply you know pursuing its own very corrupt interests is not really the case i think russia is just trying to protect whatever is left of peace and security in the region ok your words i
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never said russia had corrupt interests in syria it's true or has a play it is either strew eat what it's so there are some about brits hating protecting peace in the region here or here's the thing you left out several other interests that russia has the specially now preventing the spread of islamic radicalism to the north caucasus which became a major interests after early two thousand and thirteen with the nusra front and then an isis so this is i was in saudi arabia we didn't interest russian interests an interest for all of why is it as zero sum game then that is exactly right and that's what i've been trying to argue there is a common interest between the united states and russia to prevent the growth of the islamic state that used to be called isis and the question is do we now see mr putin pressuring mr moloch easy to share power genuinely with the kurds and with
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the sony or is it zero sum game providing weapons to mr maliki in the way of su twenty five fighter bombers so he can bomb a isis without sharing power that's the key question dr freeman that's a very odd juxtaposition either russia does what america wants or it's zero sum game but you mentioned some common interests here and i agree with you that it's not only. in russia's and america's common interests to fight counter terror and you know we also have iran israel turkey saudi arabia they all have somewhat overlapping security interests there which is a very i thing. are them probably even a unique situation but this situation could be viewed as both a challenge a major political challenge as a major opportunity and how do you see that well let's take them one by one in the case of iran the united states and russia cooperate in the p five plus one
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the issue now is how many centrifuges the iranians are going to have. is it in russia's interest to see a nuclear armed iran probably not is in the immersion interest of a nuclear armed iran definitely not so there are areas of common interest the question is again to what degree is mr putin pressuring the uranium is to limit the number of centrifuges they're going to have that's the key question and so far i don't see any evidence of that quite the contrary mr frum how many the religious leader has said we should have one hundred thousand centrifuges that's ten times as much as the u.s. apparently wants well i but dr friedman let's agree it's not all about what the u.s. wants even though you keep mentioning of logic important what about mr a blood a bomb are actually compromising on his policy objective of ousting assad from office i think everybody now understands that was a silly idea to begin with do you think he will be willing to compromise on that as
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a potential concession to both russia iran and possibly even china i mean if he could by doing that he could kill several birds with the same stone normalize relations with those countries and also deal with counterterrorism well remember what both the arab league plan and geneva one and geneva two said. a power sharing system between the government of syria and the rebels that was the idea and that would lead to elections and a new government in syria unfortunately the russians chose it you need the two in february of two thousand and fourteen to sabotage that there's no other word for it the end result is more fighting more killing and more growth of aslambek radical as well dr friedman i would also add to that that three years ago russia also chose to
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sabotage the american efforts to. you know m c the secular government of syria which potentially i think probably lets you be a current isis threat in both syria and iran but we have to take a very very short break now when we come back by stretching its foreign policy if then isn't the united states going down the path of the soviet union that's coming out in a few moments on worlds apart. history is never really dead as long as it's with us the start of the first world war one hundred years ago is a case in point in numerous ways the beginning in conclusion of that conflict shapes our world today. right from the scene. of the first trip. and i think the church.
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on our reporters twitter. and instagram. to be in the no movement on. welcome back to worlds apart from riyadh discussing anti-american as man ruth the four b. of a political scientist robert thread months dr friedman i heard you say that putin is no friend of the united states i wonder if you believe him to be an
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enemy of your country no i think mr putin is unfortunately following in the footsteps of some soviet leaders of paranoia of power in other words he saw the arab spring and later the comments of hillary clinton as aimed at overthrowing mr putin and the whole current russian system and i think that was a mistake i think he overreacted and i think that's one of the reasons that you have serious russian american problems these days while i think my reading of lives near putin is totally different from yours i think here so what american involvement in the middle east and even in your crane is doing to those countries and hundreds of thousands of people being killed and whole countries being destroyed that is driving his somewhat. i think i'm ten merican statements even though i wouldn't describe his policies as anti-american but on one point i would agree with you that he is no friend of the united states precisely because i
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believe that the russia vladimir putin is fundamentally and ideologically opposed to the united states in its view of the world and the belief in how you should go around you know promoting democracy and in the meantime ceding cares and bloodshed dies russia a flooding there putin need to be neutralized and if so how well i'm not sure the word neutralized is correct i think mr putin views himself in history somewhere along the lines of piotr very leaky please peter the great because at the reno they leak catherine the great and now it's going to be blood the image of a leaky because he's the man who regained crimea and possibly part of ukraine for russia but what different. doesn't mean how he views himself i mean he always sad that he's trying to protect russia's interests and those great leaders that he just mentioned they were protecting russia's interests what's wrong with standing out for a country that's right and as i said he's very much in the pattern of peter the great
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and catherine the great in an effort to add land whether it's buffer for protection or buffer to move forward in an effort to enhance russia's strength that the lemma is when you add russia's security on the one hand you add in security for others whether it's what's left of the ukraine or poland or the baltic states doesn't that also apply to the united states though when you try to a procedure security interest in iraq or afghanistan or libya or syria don't you make those countries more insecure well remember in afghanistan take them one by one in afghanistan you had the taleban giving. rest recuperation and play a planning base for the people in al qaeda who carried on nine eleven that had to be removed or else afghanistan would remain a major base for terrorist attacks on the us the problem was us made
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a major mistake on this instead of a instead of finishing the job in afghanistan it turned its efforts to to iraq and that was a big mistake that may be fair enough but you know one of the mistakes of the soviet union was stretching its foreign policy to theme you know if focusing too much on spreading its values its ideology around the world the probably even have got in afghanistan and paying too little attention to the welfare of its own people isn't the united states running the risk of committing the same mistake now that's exactly what mr obama has been arguing let's come home let's get out of foreign entanglements whether afghanistan or iraq and concentrate on nation building at home that's a withdrawal mentality that's non-aggressive meant dr friedman having said that president obama has just requested a half a billion dollar allowance to arm syrian rebels and that's at a time when your country has to you know social expenses across the board when your
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infrastructure is crumbling and many of your people are really struggling i what. it's similar to what the soviet union did in afghanistan you know sending money and sending troops there while that money would be much better spotted at home well the point is if you can on our my i think the u.s. position is that it's from my point of view two years too late but if you can arm and strengthen relatively secular. but especially anti isis forces this will weaken isis in syria we can isis overall and lessen the threat of another attack on the american homeland but i don't this is an internet based same logic that the united states pursued in afghanistan you know from army relatively well i wouldn't call them secular but they're relatively unknown a graph with jackie deans in afghanistan they were on to sauvie and that was good
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enough for the united states and look what happened a couple of years down the line again the problem with american policy is a lack of staying power after the soviet union left afghanistan the united states essentially forgot about afghanistan the pakistanis moved in to fill the void with the taliban that led to the growth of al-qaeda with all the subsequent consequences this was the critique of pulling out of iraq as well you pulled out of iraq too quickly that led to the chaos with moloch instead of genuinely sharing power with kurds and sunni trying to dominate with the shia regime another mistake but dr friedman it seems that there is a trend of the united states having very short historical memory and you know very little patience to deal with crisis on its hands if a bomb a decides to arm syrian rebels now was the guarantee that the united states will stay involved in that quagmire i don't know
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a coffee year or even two months down the line well that is of course a very important question and hopefully with congressional pressure. and the u.s. will stick with its efforts with the syrian rebels remember president obama who you tend to portray is rather aggressive i see is relatively weak and we're withdrawing president the secretary of state the secretary of defense the head of the cia or urged him in two thousand and twelve to arm the syrian rebels he refused but dr friedman he did nothing to stop saudi arabia and turkey financing pretty hard line on a syrian rebel speech probably contributed to the isis problem that we're all dealing at the moment i want to switch gears a little bit and draw one more parallel between the soviet american and russian american rivalry if he if you look at the polls public opinion polls the percentage of people in all in both countries who view either russia or the united states that
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a tsunami has really increased over the last couple of months it's now in the seventy's and i think it's the highest figure in more than twenty years how worrying is that for you well public tends to follow the lead of politicians i mean after all russia did seize the crimea russia is trying to undermine the current government of ukraine that causes a lot of unhappiness in the west and a lot of fear that russia might continue as the soviet union did to invade its neighbors can i just develop this point that you just mentioned about the soviet union i know that americans many americans see the soviet union as an aggressive activity but even in that it's war is there as the soviet union never cause as much death and destruction of broad as the united states is still doing now because if you if you ask me about the causes for the anti-american feeling sentiment here in russia you know we can see at all the results of the american policies in you know
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in ukraine in libya in syria again the list goes on and on why you can only side of this one case of bloodless annexation as you call it of crimea well you know the the story in crimea and the ukraine is not over yet but who is not a bloodless intervention in hungary. the national weather service in mount holly new jersey has issued a severe thunderstorm warning for delaware county in southeastern pennsylvania northwestern gloucester county and southern new jersey newcastle county in northern delaware eastern cecil county in northeast maryland kent county and northeast maryland southeastern chester county in southeastern pennsylvania northwestern can't county in central delaware northern caroline county in eastern maryland queen
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anne's county in northeast maryland salem county in southern new jersey and eleven forty five pm at ten forty four pm national weather service doppler radar indicated a line of severe thunderstorms the severe storms extended from there my children and avon dale in pennsylvania did that in a drought call in maryland the storms are moving east at thirty five mph these storms are capable of producing damaging wind gusts and hail severe thunderstorms will be near cheney and west down around ten fifty five pm grady dillon tally the around eleven pm millington in wilmington minute around eleven o five pm newtown square in newcastle around eleven ten pm brooklyn travelled lake around eleven fifteen pm eastern landed in a drexel hill around eleven twenty pm this is a dangerous storm if you are in its path move interest to a sturdy building and stay away from windows when it is safe to do so report severe weather to local law enforcement or to the national weather service
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a severe thunderstorm watch remains in effect until eleven pm sunday evening for northern delaware and northeastern maryland and new jersey and eastern pennsylvania repeating a severe thunderstorm warning has been issued until eleven forty five pm for the following counties in delaware canton newcastle in the following counties in maryland caroline cecil canton queen anne's in the following counties in new jersey gloucester and salem in the following counties in pennsylvania. picked magic and equipped to build basis but isn't that a major difference between now and then because the united states used to view the u.s.s.r. as an equal partner but to the current decision makers in washington russia is not an equal partner it's just a region know of probably even marginal power isn't it no i don't think american policy makers see russia as a marginal power certainly and i think it's seen more as a regional power after all it has nuclear weapons it has a veto at the u.n. the u.n.
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security council and in terms of areas of cooperation maybe we should end our discussion with a description of areas where the two countries could cooperate number one on iran the deadline is coming up on on on on july twentieth russia and the u.s. cooperating could be very helpful there in the case of iraq as i mentioned both the united states and russia pressuring mr maliki to genuinely share palko could also has unclear if there could be very happy working on the. ending of the syrian chemical weapons program which was also quite successful not many people believe that something like this could have been achieved just a few months ago really is me to my final question i mean you mentioned just now a few positive examples of cooperation and i wonder if iraq sense of cooperation but tunnel cooperation and actually a successful cooperation syrian chemical weapons program you know putting in and to the syrian weapons chemical weapons program would be
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a one example of an accomplishment i wonder if the to countries really need to push each other's buttons to actually achieve anything productive well remember in two thousand and nine two thousand and ten america undertook a policy called the reset of relations to improve relations with russia despite the russian invasion of georgia this involved. getting russia into the world trade organization which mr putin thank the united states for by the way helping russia build its own silicon valley outside of moscow. having written in the meantime russia was also aiding b i merrick and campaign in afghanistan and the united states on a number of key initiatives not to mention that russia never invaded georgia had actually tried to found off a georgian attacks and south a city but please go on well we we can obviously refight the georgian war but money i think the mistake was made actually on the part of the u.s.
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in that president obama bet on video of who was a much more of a partner for the united states than mr putin is that's the reality well but dr friedman i think president obama probably needs to learn a thing or two from albert einstein who said that the man should look at what he is not what he thinks should be but unfortunately we have to leave it there dr friedman i appreciate you being on the show and to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and i hope to syrian town same place same time here while the party. it's like you don't want the bullets to stop. because it's like doc got stuck. back
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back back back up mode so it's it's almost like there's a beat the blue and then you just see the big sal and it's like the base. of the tried to play. people. want to get. your. teaching every minute. sometimes me no no law no well. my. life but. let's say to. these kids is going to eat lunch.
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sometimes for nothing which. is so we have to go. it's not just you but still we can still be just if you see the state take the t.v. . but the speech was. on air and in the financial world. series to moments cannot stop because it eventually takes no debate the president not going to get any economic benefit in life there are. please. please.
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please. please. please our headline government fighters and ukrainian government forces both say that control when the earth poured in lugansk the city was shelled by kiev offered to army residential buildings in nearby town at least the russian citizen is killed by a shell fired from ukraine moscow warns of harsh consequences for the act but kiev say they didn't fire russian territory inflame. the conflict in gaza continues to escalate as the number of palestinians killed surpasses one hundred and sixty people the u.n. is calling for a ceasefire estimating that civilians make up almost.

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