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tv   Worlds Apart With Oksana Boyko  RT  July 13, 2014 10:29am-11:01am EDT

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that's an example which is followed if true that what i would call mr putin zero sum game diplomacy where what russia gains the us loses and vice versa i heard the same many times that putin is a logically trying to play these zero sum game while obama is going for a win win but i wonder who just who actually won from obama's policies because if you look at his approval ratings he himself seems to be a losing not to mention the people of libya the people of syria the people of ukraine and the list can go on and on what is this when when i mean who is winning from this when when i wouldn't characterize mr obama's policies as win when i would characterize him with the following words i got us out of iraq i'm getting us out of afghanistan i'm not getting involved in syria and now i'm not getting involved in iraq again so basically the us is withdrawing while the russians are moving forward we see this in a case to try to replace the u.s.
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in egypt with arms supplies trying to replace to a certain extent the us in iraq also with arms supplies and not being helpful as in the case of hamas now when they have this charge of russian all being how four is over often voiced by policymakers in washington what's wrong with not being helpful to the united states is that such a big a crime i mean after all it's a level playing field and everybody is das what he or she or the country sees it to be in its national interest no but we're talking about helpful to international peace in two thousand and six russia promised it would get hamas to agree to make peace with israel eight years later it hasn't happened and putin is prefer him to play hamas as anti american card than constructive peace building but mr friedman that the arab palestinian conflict is not the only threat to the p. isn't the
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middle is i mean since then america has very nicely and very calls that involve itself in a number of conflicts sleepiest syria. you know the instability in egypt you know you cannot blame russia for not that you know labeling hamas as a terrorist organization as being the only decisive factor of why the whole region is on fire the region is on fire starting with syria because of russian intervention and iranian intervention if the russians had not put in so much military aid to the syrian regime of hafez assad had not protected the assad regime three times at the u.n. from serious resolutions condemning its actions including killing more than one hundred fifty thousand people then you might have had a more positive resolution at the geneva two conference but it you need to to russia chose to side one hundred percent with assad and the geneva two conference felt but dr friedman let's take comparable cases from the region the case of iraq
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the case of libya you know russia play along with the united states and libya does leave me a look like a positive example of a burgeoning democracy what about iraq you know russia did object to george w. bush invading iraq but it did not stop americans look at the country well let's take each case separately in the case of libya gadhafi then in charge threaten to massacre the people of benghazi at the time that then russian president medvedev went along with the no fly zone which helped protect the people of benghazi the key american mistake was after the fall of gadhafi not being heavily involved politically to ensure that the chaos which unfortunately occurred didn't occur in the case of iraq it's a very different ballgame you have mr mollett of iraq who eliminated the kurds alienated the sunny. and remember the u.s.
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pulled out of iraq in two thousand and ten really weakening whatever leverage the united states had except for supply which hasn't gotten there yet of f. sixteen i agree that we should approach all these cases individually but they all have one common denominator and this is the involvement of being of the united states and i understand that as an american citizen you would be feeling compelled to defend american foreign policy especially on the russian t.v. not for it but as a as a scholar i hope objective caller don't hear thing that the american foreign policy creates more problems than it solved well let me start by saying i'm not a defender of american policy here i think obama's policies in the middle east have been very close to a disaster his failure to intervene in syria when he could have and there would have been a more positive result will go down as the biggest staying in the character of the united states there i think his decision to pull out of iraq before a power sharing system had been set up with maliki in two thousand and ten was
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a very big mistake and i think we're seeing the results of this now so please i'm not a defender of u.s. policy i think mr obama's made a number of mistakes my criticism of russia is however the mr putin is playing zero sum game politics instead of being willing to cooperate to solve some of these very serious but the international comedy let me challenge this exact point because we often hear that being voiced in the american media that you know russia's policy of is that the syria for example is dictated by russia's own corrupt interests you know the intention to keep its base entire tool to keep syria as a major client for its weaponry one that have been much easier for russia to strike a deal with washington to oust assad rather than you know a facing this very significant and pretty heated confrontation with the united states. it seems to me that you know presenting russia as simply you know pursuing
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its own very corrupt interests is not really the case i think russia is just trying to protect whatever is left of peace and security in the region ok your words i never said russia had corrupt interests in syria it's true as i think one plate is either screwy what it's so there are some about brits hating protecting peace in the region here or here's the thing you left out several other interests that russia has especially now preventing the spread of islamic radicalism to the north caucasus which became a major interest after early two thousand and thirteen with the nusra front and then an isis so this is i would guess that there is a little weird american interest russian interest an interest for all of why is it as zero sum game then that is exactly right and that's what i've been trying to argue there is a common interest between the united states and russia to prevent the growth of the
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islamic state that used to be called isis and the question is do we now see mr putin pressuring mr moloch easy to share power genuinely with the kurds and with the sony or is it zero sum game providing weapons to mr maliki in the way of su twenty five fighter bombers so he can bomb a isis without sharing power that's the key question dr freeman that's a very odd juxtaposition either russia does what america wants or it's zero sum game but you mentioned some common interests here and i agree with you that it's not only. in russia's and america's common interests to fight counter-terror and you know we also have iran israel turkey saudi arabia they all have somewhat overlapping security interests there which is a very i thing. art and probably even a unique situation but the situation could be viewed as. both a challenge
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a major political challenge as a major opportunity how do you see that well let's take them one by one in the case of iran the united states and russia cooperate in the p five plus one the issue now is how many centrifuges the iranians are going to have. is it in russia's interest to see a nuclear armed iran probably not is in the immersion interest of a nuclear armed iran definitely not so there are areas of common interest the question is again to what degree is mr putin pressuring the iranians to limit the number of centrifuges they're going to have that's the key question and so far i don't see any evidence of that quite the contrary mr frum how many the religious leader has said we should have one hundred thousand centrifuges that's ten times as much as the us apparently wants while i've been dr friedman let's agree it's not all about what the u.s. wants even though you keep mentioning of logic important what about mr a block
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a bomb are actually compromising on his policy objective of ousting assad from office i think everybody now understands that was a silly idea to begin with do you think he will be willing to compromise on that as a potential concession to both russia iran and possibly even china i mean he could by doing that he could kill several birds with the same stone normalize relations with those countries and also deal with counterterrorism well remember what both the arab league plan and geneva one and geneva two said a power sharing system between the. government of syria and the rebels that was the idea and that would lead to elections and a new government in syria unfortunately the russians chose that you need to to in february of two thousand and fourteen to sabotage that there's no other word for
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the end result is more fighting more killing and more growth of islam it radical as well dr friedman i would also add to that that three years ago russia also chose to sabotage the american efforts to. you know i'm seed the secular government of syria which potentially i think probably lots of the a current isis threat in both syria and iran but we have to take a very very short break now when we come back by stretching its foreign policy thing isn't the united states going down the path of the soviet union that's coming out in a few moments on worlds apart. we never saw that coming. we had no idea or children were gay. i
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would actually just at night pray to god you know me normal. they said you're a homo you're a homo and from that day in first grade i swear my life changed forever i became like the ridicule around to get stop still to this day. while alabama and texas instruct school teachers to tell pupils young people that homosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle and also instructs them to say that homosexual sex in private is a crime in those states if the church was going to fire me that's what they had to do what i was going to do this with. history is never really dead as long as it's with us the start of the first world war one hundred years ago is a case in point in numerous ways the beginning in conclusion of that conflict shapes our world today.
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but. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and oppressive and we've been a hydrogen lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once i'm tom are going to get on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem try rational debate and. discussion critical issues facing america from go ready to join the movement. to make.
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your friend post a photo from a vacation you can't afford. a different from. the boss repeats the same old joke of course you like. your ex-girlfriend still tends to rejection poetry keep. ignore it. we post only what really matters at r.t. to your facebook news feed. welcome back to worlds apart from really discussing anti-american as man ruth the four b. of a political scientist robert fragments dr friedman i heard you say that putin is no friend of the united states i wonder if you believe him to be an enemy of your country no i think mr putin is unfortunately following in the footsteps of some soviet leaders of paranoia of power in other words he saw the arab spring and later
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the comments of hillary clinton as aimed at overthrowing mr putin and the whole current russian system and i think that was a mistake i think he overreacted and i think that's one of the reasons that you have serious russian american problems these days well i think my reading of lives near putin is totally different from yours i think here saw what american involvement in the middle east and even in the ukraine is doing to those countries and hundreds of thousands of people being killed and whole country is being destroyed that is driving his somewhat. i think i'm ten merican statements even though i wouldn't describe his policies as anti-american but on one point i would agree with you that he is no friend of the united states precisely because i believe that the russia vladimir putin is fundamentally and ideologically opposed to the united states in its view of the world and the belief in how you should go
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around you know promoting democracy and in the meantime seeding cares and bloodshed dies russia a flogging of putin need to be neutralized and if so how well i'm a true the word neutralized is correct i think mr putin views himself in history somewhere along the lines of piotr of a leaky police peter the great because it's a rino they lead catherine the great and now it's going to be blood the image of a leaky because he's the man who regained crimea and possibly part of ukraine for russia but what different. does it make how he views himself i mean he always said that he's trying to protect russia's interests and those great leaders that you just mentioned they were protecting russia's interests what's wrong with standing out for a country that's right and as i said he's very much in the pattern of peter the great and catherine the great in an effort to add land whether it's buffer for protection or buffer to move forward in an effort to enhance russia's strength that
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the lemma is when you add russia's security on the one hand you add in security for others whether it's what's left of the ukraine or poland or the baltic states doesn't that also apply to the united states though when you try to appreciate your security interests in iraq or afghanistan or libya or syria don't you make those countries more insecure well remember in afghanistan take them one by one in afghanistan you had the taleban giving. rest recuperation and play a planning base for the people in al qaeda who carried on nine eleven that had to be removed or else afghanistan would remain a major base for terrorist attacks on the u.s. the problem was u.s. made a major mistake on this instead of a instead of finishing the job in afghanistan it turned its efforts to to iraq and
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that was a big mistake that may be fair enough but you know one of the mistakes of the soviet union was stretching its foreign policy to seeing you know if focusing too much on spreading its values its ideology around the world the probably even have got in afghanistan and paying too little attention to the welfare of its own people isn't the united states running the risk of committing the same mistake now that's exactly what mr obama has been arguing let's come home let's get out of foreign entanglements whether afghanistan or iraq and concentrate on nation building at home that's a withdrawal mentality that's not an aggressive meant dr friedman having said that president obama has just requested a half a billion dollar allowance to arm syrian rebels and that's at a time when your country has to cut you know social expenses across the board when your infrastructure is crumbling and many of your people are really struggling i
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wonder if that's actually very similar to what the soviet union did in afghanistan you know sending money and sending troops there while that money would be much better spotted at home well the point is if you can on our my i think the u.s. position is that it's from my point of view two years too late but if you can arm and strengthen relatively secular. assad but especially anti isis forces this will weaken isis in syria we can isis overall and lessen the threat of an. other attack on the american homeland but i don't this is an internet the same logic that the united states pursued in afghanistan you know for army relatively well i wouldn't call them secular but they're relatively normal graphs if we jackie deans in afghanistan they were on to sauvie and that was good enough for the united states and look what happened a couple of years down the line again the problem with american policy is a lack of staying power after the soviet union left afghanistan the united states
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essentially forgot about afghanistan the pakistanis moved in to fill the void with the taliban that led to the growth of al-qaeda with all the subsequent consequences this was the critique of pulling out of iraq as well you pulled out of iraq too quickly that led to the chaos with moloch instead of genuinely sharing power with kurds and sunni trying to dominate with the shia regime another mistake but dr friedman it seems that there is a trend of the united states having very short historical memory and you know very little patience to deal with crisis on its hands if a bomb a decides to arm syrian rebels now was the guarantee that the united states will stay involved in that quagmire i don't know a coffee year or even two months down the line well that is of course a very important question and hopefully with congressional pressure and the u.s.
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will stick with its efforts with the syrian rebels remember president obama who you tend to portray is rather aggressive i see as relatively weak and we're withdrawing president the secretary of state the secretary of defense the head of the cia or urged him in two thousand and twelve to arm the syrian rebels he refused but dr friedman he did nothing to stop a saudi arabia and turkey financing pretty hard line on a syrian rebel speech probably contributed to the isis problem that's. we are all dealing at the moment i want to switch gears a little bit and draw one more parallel between the soviet american and russian american rivalry if he if you look at the polls public opinion polls the percentage of people in all in both countries who view either russia or the united states that it certainly has really increased over the last couple of months it's now in the seventy's and i think it's the highest figure in more than twenty years how
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worrying is that for you well public tends to follow the lead of politicians i mean after all russia did seize the crimea russia is trying to undermine the current government of ukraine that causes a lot of unhappiness in the west and a lot of fear that russia might continue as the soviet union did to invade its neighbors can i just develop this point that you just mentioned about the soviet union i know that americans many americans see the soviet union as an aggressive activity but even in that it's war is there is the soviet union never cause as much death and destruction abroad as the united states is still doing now because if you if you ask me about the causes for the anti-american feeling sentiment here in russia you know we can see at all the results of the american policies in you know in ukraine in libya in syria again the list goes on and on why you can only side this one case of bloodless i mix
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a sion as you call it of crimea well you know the the story in crimea and ukraine is not over yet but who's not a bloodless intervention in hungary in one thousand nine hundred fifty six was not a bloodless intervention in czechoslovakia in any sense only an example and it is certainly wasn't as an example that's right and what did mr putin say if i may quote him the worst thing to happen in the twentieth century was the collapse of the soviet union that to my mind and to some american minds indicates a certain kind of mentality by dr everything life is i need to read the study of this. you're long enough and you know that the soviet times the soviet union was not only a political entity to it was also a state that united many people and mr putin time and time again sad that he was talking about personal connections and people suddenly finding themselves living in a different country overnight he was talking about the human dimension of the soviet breakdown rather than you know or trying to reason rack of these big you
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know soviet political system it was russia after all the rich decided the russian people rich decided to ditch communism it wasn't the united states who made us the no absolutely it was a combination it was mr yeltsin who decided and mr yeltsin was fighting against mr gorbachev at the time and this was a good means of eliminating gorbachev as a political rival the problem with mr yeltsin as you well know his rule led to ten years of chaos and the one positive thing that mr putin has done in my view is he's ended more or less the chaos the question is having gone into crimea i mean now threatened elsewhere building up the size of the military is he in fact taking money away from education and science as some russian scholars themselves say well are that's a valid point even though i think if you look at public opinion polls the overwhelming majority of freshens do believe that crimea was is and will be russian now in these
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political climate though i find it very interesting that a couple of days ago i put into a time to send a telegram to president obama congratulating americans on their independence day and expressing the hope that the two countries could overcome the current difficulties and build their relationship on a quote pragmatic and equipped to build basis but isn't that a major difference between now and then because the united states used to view the u.s.s.r. as an equal partner but to the current decision makers in washington russia is not an. will partner it's just a region no probably even marginal power isn't it no i don't think american policymakers see russia as a marginal power certainly and i think it's seen more as a regional power after all it has nuclear weapons it has a veto at the u.n. the u.n. security council and in terms of areas of cooperation maybe we should end our discussion with
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a description of areas where the two countries could cooperate number one on iran the deadline is coming up on on on on july twentieth russia and the u.s. cooperating could be very helpful there in the case of iraq as i mentioned both the united states and russia pressuring mr maliki to genuinely share palko could also has been clear if there could be very happy working on the. ending of the syrian chemical weapons program which was also quite successful not many people believe that something like this could have been achieved just a few months ago really is me to my final question i mean you mentioned just now a few positive examples of corporation and i wonder if iraq sense of cooperation but tunnel cooperation and actually a successful cooperation syrian chemical weapons program you know putting in and to the syrian weapons chemical weapons program would be a one example of an accomplishment i wonder if the to countries really need to push
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each other's buttons to actually achieve anything productive well remember in two thousand and nine two thousand and ten america undertook a policy called the reset of relations to improve relations with russia despite the russian invasion of georgia this involved getting russia into the world trade organization which mr putin thanked the united states for by the way helping russia build its own silicon valley outside of moscow her main military mission in the meantime russia was also aiding b i merrick and campaign in afghanistan and that. the united states on a number of key initiatives not to mention that russia never invaded georgia had actually tried to found off a georgian attacks and south a city but please go on well we we can obviously refight the georgian war but money i think the mistake was made actually on the part of the u.s. in that president obama bet on mitt veto of who was a much more of a partner for the united states than mr putin is that's the reality well but dr
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friedman i think president obama probably needs to learn a thing or two from albert einstein who said that the man should look at what he is not what he thinks should be but unfortunately we have to leave it there dr friedman i appreciate you being on the show and to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and i hope to syrian town same place same time here on worlds apart. seriously call it basic right to. say ok pulling out of.
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your life for just a short changing every minute. somehow me oh ya know what. my own life but hey. i was going to say. these cases most elite moments. sometimes for nothing which. is silly and it's still. it's not just he still can still be jobst if you see a stage eight look easy. but speech was. cool.
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this is about making the business survive. and. corporations don't love your parishioners told gates corporations have no feeling. corporations don't care about you or me corporations will make her book for. people come to on toast for instance and leave massive bleeps for the state come on. we're not going to quit we will not stop until it is done. what is more precious music more moving. to new music secret laboratory tim kirby was able to build on the old most sophisticated robot which all unfortunately doesn't give
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a darn about anything turns mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and world events this is why you should care watch only on the dog. just like. everybody else did you know the prize is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open prize is critical to our democracy right albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and i was proud cynical we've been a hydrogen lying handful of friends dash and the corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world if we go beyond identifying the problem you try rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing america have on him are you ready to join
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the movement then walk a little bit of. a russian citizen killed by a shell fire from ukraine moscow warns of heavy consequences though pierre but denies attacking russian territory. in east ukraine eighteen people killed by army shelling which is hitting mining towns a day after artillery attacks on the region regional capitals suburbs calls multiples of casualties. deadliest night of israeli bombings pushing the number of palestinian casualties to more than one hundred sixty well israeli commandos briefly entered gaza to raid a militant walk outside. and looking back at the week's news via by berlin germany expelling a top cia official after arresting.

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