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tv   The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann  RT  November 27, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm EST

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coming up on r t it turns out that the n.s.a. isn't above watching you watch porn documents reveal that the n.s.a. has been gathering records of online sexual activity hoping to shame radicals with it the seedier side of surveillance ahead and the u.s. government is planning to empty out its embassy at the vatican the stated reason security concerns but is there more to it than that a look at the divide between the u.s. government and the vatican coming up. and a new video puts a damper on the thanksgiving turkey undercover investigators reported footage of the crowded sickly conditions at a turkey breeding farm more on that later in the show.
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it's wednesday november twenty seventh five pm in washington d.c. i'm in mira david and you're watching r.t. . and we begin today with new revelations regarding the national security agency according to secret documents obtained by the huffington post through edward snowden the n.s.a. participated in tracking the online sexual activity of people the agency considered to be quote radicalize ors it was all part of a proposed plan to target six different muslims thought to have been influencing the opinions of others in carrying out the surveillance the agency was hoping to harm their reputation and undermine their credibility as muslim leaders in the community the documents reveal that the n.s.a. was monitoring those who were viewing sexually explicit material online and using sexually explicit persuasive persuasive language when communicating with inexperienced young girls here's what adult film performer janine had to say about the tactic. trying to discredit someone for watching porn kind of makes me
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wonder what that person is doing or what our government is doing the document does not accuse any of the six individuals of being involved in terror plots and the agency says it believes all lives outside of the united states but to discuss this latest revelation and its implications i was joined earlier by matthew kelo grew legal fellow at the bill of rights defense committee i first asked him how these muslims were vetted for this kind of surveillance that's a fantastic question i mean the way that the n.s.a. describes it is that they have controversial political beliefs which right now. in the current political climate means terrorism which is a broad term but they fit a profile that the f.b.i. is looking at now or the n.s.a. is looking at now or the cia or ga or any of the agencies that they cooperate with . and i profile could change any time these people got selected because of their affiliation with the current focus of. those agencies sure well in
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response to this leaked report the director of public affairs for national intelligence had this to say he said it should not be surprising that the u.s. government uses all of the lawful tools at our disposal to impede the efforts of valid terrorist targets who seek to harm the nation and radicalize others to violence do you agree. well i mean the operative term there is lawful right like. on the basic premise sure but on the definition of what is actually lawful particularly in terms of this program i think a lot is highly called into question the secrecy of the n.s.a. certainly doesn't do anything to support the claim that these practices are lawful . so in spirit of course but in practice i have serious doubts as to the legitimate lawfulness of these operations and there is one question will target who was identified in the documents as a u.s.
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person but the majority of the people targeted here were foreigners living outside of the united states some people living here would say well if they're not americans if they're not flying on need personally then i don't care you know what's your response to that should should and all americans care about this. i think that all americans absolutely should because the focus of the n.s.a. and specifically the focus of intelligence gathering generally which is not just the n.s.a. it's dispersed across many different agencies for now could be focused elsewhere but you know the world is a big place and the united states and countries and individuals generally play an increasingly common role in each other's lives so the ability for the united states to pretend like it's an island divorced from the rest of the world and these types of surveillance practices are going to repurpose on american citizens is just being short sighted i think that the immediate focus on well it's not me it's somebody else i mean we've we've heard that before in other historical context and it hasn't
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played out well for anyone and of course there's the danger that it could one day become american. well this isn't the first time we've seen an agency do this of course can you talk about how this surveillance compares to the surveillance and blackmail tactics used against martin luther king by the f.b.i. for example yeah that's the minaret program so that's that's a common comparison it's floating around right now about this specifically and because of the religious leader nature of the focus of the n.s.a. these these operations are nothing new and i mean look i live here in oakland california and oakland has a long history with culture pro you know dues operations are nothing new in terms of environmental activists are nothing new in terms of antiwar activists so what's really different here is the scope this goal of the n.s.a. is much much much much much much much broader than has been previously seen to other agencies. and in the case of these men who are all muslim watching pornography of course could seriously discredit them in the eyes of their peers and
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in their community what kind of activity could the n.s.a. be gathering through electronic surveillance for for use against non muslims. anything they want you know i mean what's strategic here is what the n.s.a. i mean what we can infer is that the n.s.a. is making a cultural determination that these are unpopular practices but from a constitutional standpoint it's also protected speech particularly reference to the u.s. citizen sort of neither here nor there what they could look for is anything they'll make a cultural assessment or a political assessment as to a group of individuals and then to look for anything that contravenes that and when you're talking about your personal e-mails when you're talking about your online surfing habits. that all of a sudden becomes a pretty broad power so they could look for anything on anybody and that the choke point is really is it going to run against or run counter to your stated political beliefs or religious beliefs which is a fairly frightening but if frightening indeed a while and you appreciate you coming in breaking all of that down for us matthew
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calibur legal fellow at the bill of rights defense committee thank you oh thank you so much. and now more than three years after the anti-secrecy group wiki leaks rocked the us government with massive disclosures of diplomatic cables and other secrets officials say the group's founder julian assange is unlikely to ever face charges according to the washington post justice department officials reiterated that a formal decision has not been made but they said there is little possibility of bringing a case against a son unless he is charged in criminal activity beyond really releasing online top secret military documents but a former justice department spokesman matthew miller told the washington post that there's another issue he said the problem the department has always had in investigating julian a songes there is no way to prosecute him for publishing information without the same theory being applied to journalists and if you are not going to prosecute journalists for publishing classified information which the department is not then
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there is no way to prosecute a songe but don't expect julian assange to walk out of the ecuadorian embassy in london any time soon wiki leaks is skeptical about this latest report in a statement the organization said anonymous u.s. officials with obscure motivations and unknown authority do not have a good track record in this matter or in any other it remains to be seen whether the claims by these unknown anonymous officials are more than just an attempt to reduce public support for wiki leaks. and now to another culprit caught up in the silk road saga a delaware doctor has been arrested and charged for illegally selling controlled substances online to anonymous buyers on an underground web site known as silk road silk road is the web site that used electronic private currency bit coin to make it hard for law enforcement to track buyers and sellers now the doctor is a live view of bolus who was the chief o.b.-g.y.n.
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resident and a prominent delaware hospital authorities are now accusing her of operating on the site under the identity andy pro and making approximately six hundred sales in over seventeen different countries she's accused of illegally disk distributing xanax adderall and oxycontin among other controlled substances unfortunately for the doctor and undercover agents in florida was one of her best customers but that wasn't the only hitch turns out when bolus dropped off her packages and an automatic postal machine the machine had been taking and storing pictures of her and when the postal inspector gave the agent the photo of the package sender he was able to easily compare it with the picture on her facebook and my space accounts. and the united states has announced that it will be relocating its vatican embassy they say it will now be a part of a building on the compound of the larger american embassy to italy but state
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department notes that security and cost savings were behind the move with the department as to meeting it will now save one point four million dollars a year the vatican is a landlocked sovereign city state within the city of rome and it's the smallest internationally recognized independent territory in the world the shift has drawn criticism from former u.s. representatives to the holy sea along with others who insist that countries should maintain embassies to the vatican and to rome in separate locations now this consolidation comes just after the holy see is representative at the un weighed in on the debate about the use of drones representative condemned targeted killings and raised both legal and moral concerns in recent days the pope also said how can it be that it's not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure but it is news when the stock market loses two points this is a case of exclusion can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while
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people are starving this is a case of inequality and here you can see a picture of the pope with an anti fracking shirt fracking of course is a controversial policy used in the u.s. so could the new outspokenness of the vatican be behind this closure to discuss this development a little bit more i was joined earlier by jimmy aiken a senior apologist at catholic dot com i first asked him what kind of security concerns the government could possibly have about this embassy. will. some people who try to be connected to the benghazi attack back on nine eleven and as you mentioned that occurred in a middle eastern country and you you sometimes have. kind of mobs develop i mean we've seen that across the across the middle east and and you had a mob apparently organized to break in and kill people but it's hard to imagine that happening in rome. so that couldn't be what they're thinking what they might
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be thinking is some kind of terrorist plot that would be trying to target u.s. interests in rome perhaps i mean it would involve a big mob or anything like that it might involve a bomb or something or a sniper or something like that but you just wouldn't get that big mob effect in rome. of people trying to break in and burn everything until people so that's unreasonable there's been a lot of people have questioned whether that's really their motive at all. and so i would i would tend to be at least i would at least have a question in my mind about to what extent is that their actual motive same thing with cost savings a million dollars a year to a government that spends trillions is peanuts i mean it's less than peanuts. and you just know if you downgrade your embassy with somebody they're going to take that as a slap and so. a lot of people have suggested that the admin the
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administration is actually trying to to distance itself from the vatican well that's what i want to i want to actually jump and i want to talk a little bit about that as i'm sure you know the pope has been very vocal about everything from drawings to fracking and this is all been in town the last few months or so is it at all possible that this consolidation is a result of that tension of those criticisms that we're hearing i think that's easily possible on the other hand you can't underestimate government cluelessness. so there could be that factor at work as well it could be an attempt to distance itself from the vatican to signal displeasure with the vatican that's certainly how the vatican is going to take it whether they object publicly or not right and so it it's either deliberate or it's just clueless ok well i want to talk about something as a u.s. representative said a former u.s. ambassador james nicholson called the move quote massive downgrade in u.s. vatican ties turning the vatican embassy into quote
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a stepchild of the embassy to italy right what's your response to that well i think he's right and it's not just him who's been saying that it's five of the recent u.s. ambassadors to the vatican from both republican and democratic administrations have been saying this right well that's no is also getting some resistance of course from conservative catholics who prefer to maintain diplomatic distance from u.s. policy if can you talk a little bit about the u.s. policy that catholics you know take most issue as well. you know the u.s. and the holy see see eye to eye on some issues like helping poor people for example and that's very good on the other hand the current administration does take positions that are in opposition to those of the catholic church for example on the religious liberty question the current administration has been trying to force insurance policies on catholics that would violate their consciences and just
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yesterday the supreme court announced it was going to be hearing two cases that are challenging the government's health care mandate requiring catholics who object to abortion to provide abortion drugs as part of their insurance policies so that would be an example you mentioned the subject of using drones to kill people remotely that's obviously something that the holy see has been. about and there are a range of other things but in general this administration hasn't been particularly sensitive to the concerns of catholics here and you know we only have a thirty seconds left and you did touch on this a vatican hasn't publicly commented on these reports but given the kind of person pope francis is do you think it's likely that we'll see him object to this at all i don't think so i mean he could but i would be surprised if he did it typically with diplomatic stuff like this even if you're really unhappy with someone's moving you
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take it as a slight you tend not to say so publicly there's more in gestures then even then as often conveyed in words in diplomatic circles absolutely well thank you so much unfortunately ran out of time but jimmie aiken a senior apologist a catholic dot com thank you thank you america today president obama crowned the national thanksgiving turkey and formally pardon to turkey as one named popcorn and another named carmel the pardon is meant to ensure that the two gobblers escaped the carving knife this holiday season but while turkeys seem to escape the chopping block it seems human beings do not because president obama has a historically low number of pardons artie's perry and boring reports. and here is president obama pardoning two turkeys popcorn and carville earlier this afternoon now pardoning has been a presidential power from the outset but burning turkeys is
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a relatively new tradition obama has now part intend to argue only thirty nine people a record low president harry truman pardon or comey teated one thousand five hundred thirty seven people by his sixth year in office but there's no records of him pardoning any turkeys so he did around with them was ronald reagan who officially part in the first turkey under his presidency pardons and commutations started dropping significantly reagan only pardoned three hundred thirteen people by his sixth year in office but barack obama's thirty nine pardons in one coming to him is a record low even for modern day presidents bill clinton pardoned seventy seven and george w. bush pardoned ninety nine by their sixth year in office there are a few reasons for this one is a political liability as the president or the pardon someone who committed a crime as after their release the white house would have to take that responsibility and this is what happened to former arkansas governor mike huckabee when after he release convicted rapist wayne dumond the man proceeded to murder and
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rape other women now another reason is because only the department of justice has the authority to review clemency petitions some say it's a conflict of interest to have the d.o.j. review petitions of the same people they prosecuted and according to the department of justice president obama has received more than ten thousand clemency petition a large majority of them are people asking for early release from prison but the obama administration is looking for other ways to less than the u.s. incarceration of incarceration rate which is the highest in the world a good portion of these prisoners are behind bars for nonviolent drug related charges just in august of this year attorney general eric holder said the department of justice will no longer pursue mandatory minimum sentences for low level. non violent drug offenders and back in two thousand and ten president obama signed the fair sentencing act that reduced the disparity in penalties between crack and cocaine which is another racially biased syncing issue crack is just the
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crystal form of cocaine but african-americans are far more likely to be convicted for crack than cocaine which has severe less penalties while president obama has said quote we can't continue to incur cerate ourselves out of the drug crisis the administration has not granted clemency to and made better still behind bars and the old crack cocaine was over he has was the national turkeys walk free year after year the pardon doesn't necessarily mean a long and prosperous life though cobbler and gobbler but two turkeys a bargain last year both died within just a few months. in washington d.c. perry and boring r.t. . when you sit down to eat your turkey at things giving jenner think about the condition that turkey was in before it was slaughtered probably not what you're looking at is video from an undercover investigator who got a chance to see just that this footage comes from
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a turkey breeding factory farm in minnesota which happens to be the top turkey producing state in the u.s. the conditions at this particular farm are almost unbearable to watch there are twenty five thousand female turkeys that are locked in close quarters where they suffer from a variety of ailments that are outright neglected in one instance a video shows how hens get entangled in their nesting machines often getting stuck by their wings head or feet and their injuries are sometimes so severe that they die immediately so to talk a little bit more about these conditions and what people can do to ensure these bad practices stop i was joined earlier by erica meyer executive director of compassion over killing which is the organization that brought us a sledge i first asked her about the turkey elements and illnesses present in the video. so what we're saying are as you describe these hens are packed inside of these large sheds ill never set foot outside they will spend their lives inside this shed and these are specifically they're all females and they are. that will
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then be sold to hatcheries where the young turkeys will be hatched raisins slaughtered for their meat including for things giving dinner so these birds will spend their lives just being inseminated artificially over and over again and the squalid conditions that they're living in are causing some injuries to their feet making it very difficult to walk you can see in the video they have irritations all over their heads making it difficult for them to see and in some cases the injuries are caused by the machine and the equipment itself inside the facility with broken wings it appears or other injuries throughout their bodies suffering heartbreaking to see and from what i understand turkey's raids on factory farms are bred to grow so obese so quickly that they can no longer meet naturally can you talk a little bit more about the process these farmers are using to inseminate the turkeys and treacherous it is for them yeah well as you can see these circles don't look like the wild turkeys that people see sometimes in the jews or even in the wild itself so what we're looking at are domesticated birds who have been
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genetically selected and drug to grow so large so they can't because they can't mate naturally instead they are in this process they're grabbed by their legs they're hung upside down sort of shackled style on a rack and then there's a two with semen in it that is then inserted in artificially inseminating these birds and this happens over and over about once a week inside this facility these birds go through the signal island here at a office hatch and then how what's that process how quickly do they go lay an egg maybe about every twenty four to thirty six hours wow that quickly wow well interestingly we wouldn't have even been able to see any of this video had an ad ag gag law been in place and i know there was one on the table in two thousand and eleven and thankfully it did not get passed but can you talk about what that would have meant for photographers and for journalists who want to document this and bring it to light sure well these ag gag law that you talked about these are bills
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being introduced in different states across the. country and they are clearly attempts to stop these undercover investigations from happening and to stop the american public from seeing where their food is actually coming from and what's going on behind the closed doors of animal agribusiness and it's intended specifically so these videos won't be seen and in two thousand and thirteen eleven states introduce the so-called agag laws and thankfully in all eleven states they were defeated they'll most likely be introduced again in two thousand and fourteen and i think the extent to which the animal agribusiness industry is willing to go this desperate lengths to shut out the american public from seeing what's happening proves that it indeed has something to hide absolutely and what kinds of rules and regulations arm place right now on these factory farms like for example this this farm i forget the name of it but did they legally do anything wrong can make a legally be helped that's a fantastic question and that's one thing i think is definitely a misunderstanding with consumers is they presume that there is some sort of level
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of protection for these animals and it's natural to think that there are anti-cruelty codes in every state throughout the u.s. that protects dogs and cats unfortunately there are the state level laws are often inadequate and exempt what are called standard operating practices on farms or something to the degree of common practices so if it happens on enough farms it's deemed acceptable within the industry and so it doesn't fall within the same quality code there are these farms are essentially exempted from state law and there are currently no federal laws whatsoever that protect birds from this cruelty what kinds of. advocacy work are you guys doing to to change that well the first and most important thing that we're doing is exposing this we want consumers to know they have a right to know where their food is coming from and we believe once consumers find out it's really the meat industry is not happy about any of this they don't want these images to be shown to the public and so when consumers are horrified to learn a lot of this they want to know more and they want to change what they're supporting through their dietary choices and so we're encouraging consumers to look
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at this see if it's something so. hard to watch on video is it something that you truly want to support with your wallet and there are so many meat free alternatives available today so you don't have to support this cruelty is certainly something for everyone to think about when they sit down for thanksgiving dinner this year when executive director of compassion over killing thank you so much for joining me thank you every president faces opposition but as i say out of sight out of mind right well the supreme court isn't so sure at the highest court will consider whether to secret service agents were out of line for allegedly forcing protesters out of earshot of president george w. bush while allowing supporters cis to stick around during a presidential visit to oregon in two thousand and four between two hundred and three hundred anti bush protesters picketed in front of jacksonville in restaurant where president bush was dining just down the road another group formed but this one was made up of bush supporters according to the complaint u.s.
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secret service agents directed police officers to force the protesters further away using clubs and pepper spray bullets to disperse the crowd meanwhile bush's supporters were allowed to stay where they were seven of the protesters sued to secret service agents in federal court in two thousand and six for violating their first amendment rights saying they were treated unequally federal officials can't usually be sued in their official capacities unless they are found violating basic rights the government has fought for the cases dismissal but the supreme court will hear it in march. have you ever heard of twitch it's the world's leading video platform and community for gamers the service connects to gamers around the world by allowing them to broadcast watch and chat from anywhere they play now face a sion for owners are able to access twitch through a new p s four camera and game room called play room that can record gamers natural
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leave the game is meant to be fun allowing gamers to see what their friends are playing live but when your living room is broadcast to the entire world things can get a little messy in the two weeks since p s four is released which has had a crackdown on people streaming inappropriate actions online in one instance a man and wife drank themselves until they were drunk on screen and then appeared nude shortly thereafter there are also some unconfirmed reports of sexual is taking place but perhaps that's what you should have been expected when the cameras opened up to a personal living room and for a programming note next month our team will host a debate on gun violence in the u.s. .
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join us for a frank discussion on guns in america next month here on our t.v. and that does it for now for more on the stories we covered go to youtube dot com slash r t america and check out our website r t dot com slash usa you know also follow me on twitter adam you're a david and see you right back here at eight pm thanks for watching. dramas that can't be ignored to. stories others who refuse to notice. places change the world writes never. killed picture posters days you know. from around the globe.
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no please don't get me. over. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy trick albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and our craft cynical we've been a hydrogen lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told us i'm sorry and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem try rational debate in a real discussion critical issues facing america have a different feel ready to join the movement then walk a bit there. when
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the crisis leaves us traces everywhere and. empty clothes rooms become the norm. children pay for the mistakes of adults. by working in a tobacco field or in the cafes. they are the ones who come back home blasts. so kids games are just in their memories. the fact that. they were going to go to judo the prize is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy albus. in
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fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several we've been a hydrogen client handful of trans national corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers one school class i'm tom hartman and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem truck rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing not to find him or go ready to join the movement then walk a little bit. the only solution. is a. following welcome to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle
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a deal has been struck well at least some kind of deal there can be no doubt this first step agreement between the. and the great powers is of historic significance it could become the foundation for far reaching geopolitical shifts in the region but have no illusions the naysayers are intent on scuttling the deal and the use of force we're told remains on the table. to cross talk the un nucular you i'm joined by my guest richard white's in washington he's a senior fellow and director of the center for political military analysis at the hudson institute also in washington we have daniel mcadams he's the executive director of the ron paul institute and in bangkok we cross to pepe escobar he's an investigative journalist and author i generally crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it pepe if i go to you first in bangkok what do you make of the deal is it historic deal and will go
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anywhere of course it's historic i'm sure our viewers remember real man the goal to around the neo-cons ten years ago before during and after the invasion of iraq bunch of losers real men do deals with their around so this is the number one i would say the only one so far victory for the obama administration it could be the beginning of obama's nixon in china movement but it's a long long shot we have six months ahead of us we're going to have the saudi wahhabi israeli. while i could say link but it's not to link in fact it's an axis badly disguised axis trying to derail this by all means necessary we're going to have the neo cons trying to they were going to have a lot of republicans trying to derail that we're going to have a lot of us congress spade weight israeli lobby trying to derail it but we have a political will on the part of the obama administration political will in europe
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which is also very important and political will in tehran rouhani. and of course the so-called reformers around them i guess the hardliners of basically revolutionary guards but it's going to be. don excuse me to you fact and fasten your seat belts ok richard nixon in china analogies being brought up in the media and i tend to agree with pepe this could be the only positive thing we've seen in the obama administration do foreign policy once in a while but the odds are against him domestically at least at this point what are your thoughts i'm not sure the odds are against and domestically the congress has gone along with not connecting any new sanctions at least for a while they're now going through the motions of preparing a sanctions resolution but that would be use only if the six months do not result in a longer and it was just that this is just basically a negotiating tactics as
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a means of warning iran that if he didn't give talks do not succeed then even more sanctions might follow but i think that the president will get a grace period i mean i'm not sure of this in the store agreement or the nixon in china analogy holds but we just don't know and certainly it's a modest risk for potentially big gain so i think it's i think people are going to give the president the benefit of doubt here for a while ok danielle what do you think about that because the relationship between the united states and iran has been deplorable for thirty three years is this a turning point is it possible i mean should we be afraid to succeed well i think what's happening is that the media and certainly congress is overselling this with this is a very very early confidence building measure there aren't substantive changes iran is taking some minor symbolic steps the u.s. is releasing a minor amount of money seven billion over the over the next six months half of
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that is in assets that have been seized i think the media will try to overplay this and the real danger peter is that we're going to go back to i think it was zero six all over again where you had the beginning of some confidence building measures iran agreed to suspend to observe the additional protocols of the nonproliferation true. and in exchange you got no sanctions relief whatsoever so when they suspended their voluntary observation of that additional protocol that was viewed in congress and in the us media as oh here they are going at it again so there is a big danger that that the media will sell this as some sort of a final agreement so if nothing happens in six months and they go back to the status quo then it will be an additional. room for additional sanctions on iran and pepe if i go back to you in and bangkok israeli prime minister netanyahu says this is a historic mistake but that tells a lot of people that if it's a historic mistake in his opinion it must be a good deal. look at the historic mistake is p.v.
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himself you know he is the mad dog. sometimes the least in the middle east everybody knows that then on a lying movement russia china the bulk of the developing world the only one who does know about this is us public opinion most of it and all busily us corporate media so he's going to be kicking and screaming like a need for the next six months on a daily basis but seriously the grown ups are paying attention russia and china and that this is something that we should develop in our discussion debate in the long run benefits for i did the whole of you ratio this is the big this is the beginning of the new great game in your asia involving russia china the us iran turkey the real big players israel is a detail in saudi arabia come on it's an acronym ism one hundred percent ok daniel that you want to jump in and go ahead and break in
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a little bit yeah i just wanted to point out something that pepe said earlier he talked about american public opinion what's interesting just in the last day or so there was a rescue some poll that showed that the majority of americans are backing this interim agreement so we might be seeing is a replay of what we saw in that toward the end of the summer with the syria situation where the vast majority of the american people are opposed to what attack it's very possible the americans are tired of this confrontational attitude toward iran and syria and then maybe demanding something different in that case there may actually be a danger of a backlash and for the resentment toward israel if israel continues to do what it's doing which is sending an army of lobbyists through the halls of capitol hill telling all sorts of horror stories and of you know getting american congressmen and senators to oppose this deal by any means necessary so there may be a danger of a backlash americans are behind this deal with iran they're cautiously optimistic.
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richard it's clearly quite interesting if you look at this interim agreement and neither side gave away very much it seems to me that it's more it's more about trust in it's baby steps of taking trust and it's the best way of diplomacy you take a small step the other one takes a small step and you think this is what this six months is really all about because i mean it looks like there are some backsliding on capitol hill and the end in the white house wondering if it's really truly possible to get an agreement because we've been told for decades you can't deal with you can't negotiate with a rainy and suddenly that's different isn't it. well i think that the way you phrased it is why we're having this try you know try before you buy six months that there are people who are you can't cross the iranian government and therefore you need to take a smaller internment agreement and see how that goes before you agree to a larger package and i agree that's probably the right tactic. i'm not sure though if we can so easily dismiss the terms i suspect that a lot of what we seen in the interim agreement would find its way into any
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comprehensive agreement in terms of increase fair for cation and transparency that what the iranian nuclear activities are in terms of limits on the stand and intensity of iranian enrichment sanctions relief and so on and so i think that a lot of that what we're seeing now would probably be find its way into an interim agreement and of course they can always roll over the interim agreement for another six months if they have to and so on and daniel daniel if i go back to you in washington it's all of a it's all about enrichment because we have some countries in the world that say iran has the right to enrichment and other countries say they do and so it's there's a small number of countries in the world there's a rand doesn't have the right to enrichment which is that is really nonsensical because they are members of the nonproliferation treaty but you still have people in washington obviously in israel saying the same thing and i want to talk to pepe later about saudi arabia but it's about enrichment daniel well in fact there are
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very few countries in the world that don't believe you iran has the right to enrich uranium in fact when the us was negotiating the nonproliferation treaty back in the late sixty's the us insisted that article four explicitly provided for the enrichment of uranium and if you read oracle four and you have any sort of brain you realize that the word production of nuclear fuel for the use of nuclear energy production means enrichment it's not about some fairies coming down and giving it to you so it's it's impossible to read the article for and not see that it provides . richmond ok richard go ahead jump in go ahead rick i think the thank you i think the argument is not so much that there rand didn't have that right it's that iran has taken activities which now call that right into question because you're not supposed to engage in nuclear activities that can lead to a weapon if you're not if you didn't already have a nuclear weapon the time to sign it is because it was signed it's not true and there's argument there rain in activity in the past some indication that they were
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testing designs for a nuclear warhead for example and that would call into question whether they not put that right of enrichment under suspension at least until more information about their past activities comes to light and safeguards against future activities like that. what do you see it going on in iran i mean how much how much stonewalling can the revolutionary guards for example you know put it put a stop on this because we're focusing all on washington right now. yeah for them oh this is this is the most important part the internal situation in iraq be to run many times i'm in contact with a lot of people in different areas from foreign ministry to hardliners in fact even political prisoners and at the moment to consensus is rouhani one supreme leader ayatollah khamenei gave him a green light and he delivered so this means for the next six months there is going
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to be no internal opposition but this depends on both sides following what he has proposed in the interim agreement the u.s. respecting their side in the end you know and the europeans of course respecting their side of the bargain and what's going to happen during did they go see a shift doing these next six months until may two thousand and fourteen if the iranians see that this is going nowhere in terms of respecting their rights to enrich me i'm sorry i have to jump in here if you know that you were going to go with the word train and then ask you to actually break we'll continue our discussion on iran stay with our team. please.
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the problem is they come up very hard to make other plots against along here is a plot that never had sex with the perfect their lives let's play. lists and lists lists lists legs. lists lists. of.
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i've got a quote for you. it's pretty tough. if they wait substory. if this guy like you would smear that guy stead of working for the people most issues the beech tree media were pretty much over rives vision. of the. welcome back to cross talk where all things were considered on peter lavelle to
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mind you were discussing the nuclear deal with iran. ok richard going to go back to you in washington i think it's kind of tantalizing to think what if the united states in iran and its allies and we have russia in the international community actually get a deal a real deal with iran not an interim thing but going beyond it it changes the geo political space in that region i mean we've seen the united states and its allies demonize and marginalized around for decades now this agreement could normalize iran quote unquote in the international community and that's something significant way beyond any kind of nuclear deal yes the logical relationship between iran and the west is that of alignment. the iranians with wine or offshore balance or to help them against close and threats economically the natural part of iran are is
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the west they would export their natural resources oil and etc and receive advanced . acknowledged in the west but because of the story and other developments this limen it's been broken so the dominant foreign actors in the russian and then rain economy example are russia and china and so you would logically expect iran to realign with the west in this at a deal could bring that help bring that process that bow but the legacy of history isn't very difficult to overcome. speak to that because we alignment because the the the two major countries that are against this is israel and saudi arabia they don't want this realignment at all then this is really what it's all about they want to keep iran isolated and israel probably with saudi arabia would like the united states somebody else to attack iran but it's the likelihood of that happening is getting smaller at least for the time being. yeah and this is not going to happen this is where the and these are minor players i would like to focus
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on the major players once again this is the new great game in new regime it has been brewing for the past fifteen years now there's a major realignment in sight number one will the obama administration they have until two thousand and sixteen that's very important finally recognize you run as a sovereign independent can through weave their own independent foreign policy we still don't know if that is the case we're going to have a definitive deal next year and then we're going to have russia china and iran three independent eurasian independent foreign policy from the west that's a major development if it happens all right turkey very important i wrote about this last week turkey wants to position itself as the crossroads of energy transit energy from east to west for that they need iranian guess with no one to sanctions
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iran will sell even more gas to turkey through turkey to europe this is what the europeans say if you talk to europeans in brussels i've been doing this for fifteen years they always say we need iranian gas but we cannot get it because of american sanctions on russia they have already a strategic partnership with iran china they already have an energy and commercial partnership with russia is going to be even more increased if iran is normalized let's put it this way so the whole arc from southwest asia to east asia is going to change completely so this is what the grownups in the room and outside the rooms are waiting daniel this is what pepe sucking about it's a major realignment here i mean i'm looking at all of our faces here i can see you and you know what we're more or less the same age that kind of alignment to something that's never been thought of you know look being aligned with the rand or at least not be. having iran as the great enemy and this is something that's very
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new and you know gentlemen ever since the end of the cold war a lot of things have happened the none of us ever expected so daniel detente with iran. yeah but it's been no means certain and i think what's important to remember is the structure of u.s. sanctions against iran some of these sanctions were imposed by executive order therefore president obama can lift them himself some of them are passed as legislation with some limited waivers that obama has some wiggle room but quite a bit of the sanctions are written into u.s. law and the president cannot change those that would require congress to change those and i can see a scenario there's a huge danger of the president going over to geneva or wherever and signing a permanent deal coming back home and having congress reject the deal and that would make the u.s. first of all the laughingstock of the world and second of all at that point i think these view would come into place anyway which is that the international sanctions
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regime would break down at that point it barely holds together now the u.s. is barely able to hold it together now for all of the reasons that pepe outlined of the world is waiting to have an economic relationship with iran the world needs it it's good for the world so if the deal fails the sanctions regime will break down if the deal succeeds hopefully the sanctions will completely break down as well ok richard let's talk about the role of congress here in the in the israeli lobby i mean how much of a headache is this really going to be for obama because you know there are people who say that they're all powerful other people say they're not as powerful as you think but this issue is very important to the israeli lobby in the united states are they going to throw everything at it. i think we've already seen that's not going to be the case i think you've seen a lot of the members of congress have said that they i mean there where israel's concerns in that state share these concerns independent of any lobbying what have
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you there's a lot of people who are very wary about dealing with iran in this and the implications of that but as i said it's a modest agreement it's not if he fails it's not a major change from where we are now and certain so i think the congress as far as i can tell it's going to let the president try try as approach see no sanctions for six months see what happens and now if we face a comprehensive agreement then maybe it'll be a different scenario made with a much more name in opposition but i don't see that yet ok pepe you want to jump in go ahead pepe and. in thailand to go ahead you know i want to i want to jump being a yet. compliment our other guests who are seeing fact i would say that the obama administration and rouhani they have a window of opportunity of three years in fact two thousand and fourteen fifteen sixteen until the next presidential elections in two thousand and sixteen if they can evolve towards a comprehensive deal and their response little will on both sides they will be
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strengthened to fly u.s. congress new york some republicans parts of the israeli lobby there wahhabi petrodollar lobby you name it in the u.s. and inside iran of course people who are allied with the hardcore factions of the revolutionary guards which add them at the moment they're being called thing by the supreme leader himself but imagine the possibility of the supreme leader dying which is not absurd within the next three years we could probably have a much more lenient believe they're given even more leeway for the rule to clinch the deal and if. company stays in this position for the next three years he gave them a green light. this is for a city own last it's he already said that two days ago in fact if our sovereign rights are not infringed we are open to all sorts of the negotiations so
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you know how many you know he's derided the in d.c. as a fanatic his not is an extremely rational player he saw that what the ahmadinejad government did for eight years was completely absurd it was not working so you know and don't forget your opinion diplomats they are first class diplomats i had some interactions with them they are among the most sophisticated diplomats in the world and i'm sure john kerry would be able to pass that when he knew he would be talking about his interactions with saudi richard if i'm going to you in washington one of the biggest stumbling blocks over the next six months for you because when there's going to be more inspections this is iran's is going to open up more lowered in richmond and other issues that iran can easily do and be watched ok what's what who could fill in the monkey wrench what are issues that could derail him during this interim period in your mind. i don't see the interim period being much or
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a problem i think more of what's going to be the problem is converting it to longer term and that could feed back and negatively affect the interim agreement because it's not clear to me at has a rand for ever gone the desire the operation of try and richmond to twenty percent are they only going to accept five percent forever are they cannot continue to keep their centrifuges detached even though they've built them and rather than put them into the cycle are they going to adopt the additional protocol can the u.s. remove all the sanctions as daniel pointed out i mean some of them are executive order that's easy but a lot of them. require an act of congress street people i mean all those things they'd have to do and to reach a final agreement and it could be if that looks like they're not going to do that then it will feedback negatively interim but as i said i think the interim by itself it's a modest effort and therefore i'm not anticipating major problems of execution danny what do you think about the next six months what do we get what do you expect
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and i think richard makes a good point you know the the danger really as i said earlier is that the media sells it says this is the permanent deal here in iran as richard points out can never go back to enriching to a higher percentage for example for medical isotopes or for other for other means you know the n.p.t. it does not say to what level you're radium can be enriched they can rich enrich it as much as they like they simply cannot divert that enriched uranium for the use in nuclear weapons when he was just happy you know that you know when you give me the word here just want to give pepe the last word here pepe all the while all the while we even media is reputed to be this is a good question for ok you know all while you everyone's looking at a rant but it looks like saudi arabia is just going to buy a weapon from pakistan but that doesn't make headlines does it. look the house will solve this on the road to absolute irrelevance it's going to take maybe what one
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year two three five they're going to have their arab spring over there in the eastern province majority shiite they're going to have their arab spring but returning saudi students that go back to jeddah and riyadh studying in the west they say this is completely absurd that's really more there now is this country so their days are numbered absolutely and that's why they're so desperate and very very important even bummed out of bush our friend bummed out bush will stop that he would control everything in syria launch a war in syria you know it was provoking thing to abandon syrian boman irani you name it he's got nothing and now he's even more desperate and now there's going to be geneva two. about syria and january and bombards goals are not going to be there so how's off south by by pushing a deal that point thank you very much gentlemen many thanks to my guests in washington and in bangkok and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.
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see you next time and remember across town halls. these. wealthy british scientists think. it's time to. go. to. market so why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my next concert no holds barred. look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause
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a report on our. idealist been struck well the glee some kind of deal there can be no doubt this first step agreement between iran and the great powers is of historic significance it could become the foundation for far reaching geopolitical ships in the region but have no illusions the naysayers are intent on scuttling the deal and the use of force we're told three me on the table the. us has a new alert animation scripts scare me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears of the wife at great things other than their. regard at a court of law found alive there's a story made for movies playing out in real life.
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happy almost thanksgiving cuffe folks i'm having martin this is breaking the sets while thanksgiving isn't just a time for mass consumption it's also the time for the annual presidential turkey pardon that's right thanks to the generosity of obama two lucky birds were spared from the deep fryer today in fact of the course of his presidency obama had the great privilege of saving the lives of ten of these adorable gobblers if you only cared this much about humans rotting away in cages across the nation see right now there are over three hundred thousand people in prison for drugs and guess how many nonviolent drug users obama's had the pleasure of pardoning a whopping alone.


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