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tv   The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann  RT  October 4, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT

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it was like gold if you if you did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioning the constitution. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct all books. will. never go on i'm sorry and on this show we reveal the picture of what's actually going on we go beyond identifying a problem you're trying to rational debate in a real discussion critical issues facing america about ready to join the movement then welcome the big. boy on tell marvin in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. the john boehner shutdown
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of the federal government is now in its fourth day they could a new house democratic plan put an end to the gridlock on capitol hill talk about that and more in tonight's big picture rubble and power of events of the one nine hundred sixty s. and seventy's shaped by the clash between the baby boomer and world war two generation i'll ask daniel she has an influential public interest lawyer who has played a central role in a number of cases that have shaped the past half century of america's history and its conversations with great minds. you need to know this yesterday afternoon a woman from connecticut reported to be thirty four year old miriam carey rammed to barricade outside the white house after exchanging words with uniformed secret service officers she then proceeded to lead police on high speed chase from the white house to the east side of the capitol building in the process of that chase she rammed multiple police cars injuring one officer. as she approached another
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barrier this time at an entrance to the capitol grounds she brought her vehicle to a stop at that point according to multiple media reports kerry managed to get out of her vehicle and then without knowing whether or not kerry was armed police alternately opened fire on her killing her and this was all before police apparently realized the curies one year old daughter was in the back seat of the car the words are now learning that kerry had a history of mental illness or then boyfriend contacted police in the summer of last year saying he feared for the safety of the daughter of their daughter who was four months old at the time he also told police the carey was suffering from postpartum depression it was on a variety of medications multiple news outlets are reporting that medications were found in kerry's stamford connecticut apartment to treat schizophrenia bipolar disorder and depression there are also reports that she believed president obama was stalking her and that he had placed her city under lockdown and was using electronic surveillance equipment to spy on her the events of yesterday remind us of two big issues in america right now the lack of proper treatment and help for
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those with mental illness and the increasing militarization of our police for their occasionally erratic and dangerous shoot first kill and killed in tallaght that's rubble. it's friday and ready to rumble join in for god's big picture on the carl peterson editor and managing editor with the american spectator nicole williams democratic strategist and turn in horace cooper attorney and fellow at the national center for public policy research thank you all for being a loser they q so first to this shooting. i'm fascinated by this i had this conversation a link the three hours of radio show today. i'm a one through the georgia police academy i was taught and i know police officers are to at least they were taught this in the in the late eighty's early ninety's that you use the minimum amount of force necessary to to execute in a restaurant op or crime from happening and that's a very different thing than shoot to kill i mean shoot to kill is only when you are
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certain that some but some something you know somebody's going to die if you don't basically and. i just i'm curious about this whole site geist in america last year louise and i both had surgery we were down for a couple of weeks and lay in a bed we at this neck netflix thing and we watched all these episodes of like mcmillan and wife and all these old t.v. shows columbo all these little shows from from the seventy's when we were first married and and. the police didn't do these kind of things you know they would if they were shooting some of these for the needs if they were going after a car that shoot from the tires what's going what has happened in america. anybody want to jump in on this thing and i have no idea i mean you know police are here to protect and serve and so to have this i don't know if it's just because of the media in a lot of the most violent movies and things that are out there that cause people to kind of take this rambo mentality as opposed to an attitude of just saying hey i
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need to diffuse the situation because that's my job description as opposed to just going in and acting like i'm playing mortal kombat or something on t.v. . i'm not really certain the flip side of that morris is that you know these guys didn't know she might have a small nuke in the back of her truck i mean she could have been tim mcveigh she was pulling up to the capitol building and instead of shooting her dead stop the new no i'm you're going to be surprised but i share your concerns about what appears to be the types of militarization of our police force i think it would be a very hairy mercy's i genuinely think it began with a dirty harry movies that moment in the mid eighty's with dirty harry there was just i mean. they started in the seventy's was it that i was a fan of those oh i'm not saying that i'm not saying it was reagan you know i just i mean you know these soldiers that are sometimes we went from protect and serve to shoot and kill i'm sorry forgive me i was going to say though this is the kind of
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time when the stun gun the billy club and other kinds of alternatives they are powerful they can harm you but they don't kill you this was really just pull up on load on the person and we still don't know when that they found out later that there was a mental illness but it wouldn't stop the nuclear bomb it wouldn't stop the dirty bomb it would have done anything like that shooting the weapon shooting whatever it is that they're going to deploy there's no evidence that that would have been effective in any way and so i am troubled i am troubled but it seems it's a. shoot first and ask questions later this is part of the whole mindset of arresting people who videotape the police if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing having it copied shouldn't be an issue for you yet the police or getting tanks and they're doing a lots of things that seem to me a little bit threatening to the rest of the population that they work for well and they're getting the tanks and they're getting all this type of militarization stuff because you've got the military industrial complex lobbying really really heavily to to route this equipment most of this much of this equipment i mean literally
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billions of dollars worth of this equipment iraq is going in and those you know let's let's stop that let's let the military equipment go to the military let it go internationally but it doesn't need to be on earth you know let's have our police kyle she was apparently shot so aggressively that they were unable to identify her because there wasn't enough of her face left yeah and i totally agree that this is a problem you know there are like you said there are police forces with tanks we're going to drones and this is something worth having a debate about but i also think it's worth saying that we should when there's a tragedy like this we should stop and we should take a deep breath there were police who were who were trying to do their job the reporting that i saw had said that she took off in the car so fast that she flipped a secret service agent on the hood and over the car so it's there were clear indications that there was a public danger and there will be an investigation so i don't know how useful it is
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for us to sit here and second guess the police that are on the ground i mean they want to point though we hear that a lot and then the investigation is happening and then they're not even front page third page or back page stories a lot of mishaps a lot of accidents a lot of looks and people are dead i actually think we ought to hold the police accountable i have no problem with saying you carry a gun use it as you should but when you're accidentally if that's your answer i've made a mistake and now a citizen is dead. you ought to lose your job right and also to killing the individual doesn't help the further investigation as to the why that individual did what they did you know if you know if in either situation whether it's the situation whether it's the navy yard situation of situations we can guess as to why the individual did it but if they're no longer alive we can no longer accept the questions interrogate them and do the things that law enforcement is supposed to do
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an order to investigate all i would say if i was a police officer a name at that yes even though it is too much that is because i have already killed a bunch of exactly not everything that is a different than an unarmed woman walking out of a car and the point the point i'm trying to make is that is not that these officers should be held accountable it's that we're not going to hold them accountable but they don't obviously not obviously and those guys are doing incredibly difficult jobs that had lousy craft pay which by the way has been suspended by john boehner right now and these guys are working for free yesterday you can go visit whatever side of the shutdown but you can go to websites and you can see instance after instance of grandma's being snatched out of their cars because their plates of expired people being tasered on this is there really there is a greater use of force than is necessary and it is escalating upward rather than going downward and so i would say we do want to kill our society that's causing as anybody you know i do i do want to move along to the shutdown of the government but i think this is a really important question does anybody have i mean i really think pop culture
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movies are driving this i really think dirty harry was a turning point american but i got some theories to mount a little different than yours mine is that there is this increasing mindset that we don't have responsibilities to deal with the problems and challenges that we face so we increasingly hire out and we're hiring out the policemen to do all kinds of things mental illness help people with difficult marriages all kinds of things that they're really not equipped to do and that we probably ought to use our own time our own community resources and try to address those. or so and i would and i would say and i know you and i would disagree on this you would like the churches to do that i think we need better mental health facilities but whether that is what's causing cops to shoot to kill and. you call your thoughts good ok well let's move along to the shutdown here in a closed door meeting on wednesday this fascinating mainstream republicans apparently. just really went out to senator ted cruz. what are canada i think. one said i said the kid you know what would you say nothing i
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was actually born there i wouldn't disagree i mean with one senator describing the events as a ted cruz lynch mob that's pretty pretty strong language a report published friday this is a republican senator using that language a report published friday by the new york times indicated several senate republicans dan coats of indiana ron johnson of wisconsin and. new hampshire assailed senator ted cruz of texas who has led the movement to block funding for the health law is ted cruz kyl is ted cruz damaging your party well i think i think what's most interesting about this debate is it's unclear what his strategy is to some extent there are people who say strategy is to get as much publicity as he has your place john mccain as the most dangerous place to be washington d.c. is between john mccain the camera now it's between ted cruz everyone is like the humor by the way go on but you go into a debate you know do they keep using as you walk
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a used car dealership and you start with your lowest offer and you negotiate someplace in the middle and i don't think that ted cruz because a smart enough guy to know that when he was going to trying to negotiate the price of the car after he has bought the car and drove it off the lot three years ago cole i think the g.o.p. i think they're imploding from within and this is just another clear example of that i mean there's a lot of defy stiffness within the g.o.p. right now ted cruz is basically trying to score brownie points for a possible presidential run. and he's trying to basically just energize the further you know the extreme of the base right any second that's so mr hartman there you are in favor of contract you buy a lemon you take it off the lot and you can't come back and complain about it is that what you're born into that i was not i was right on with whining about it but there is a process for a complete a significant number of the american people do not like the wall i want the lower you know and i asked you don't you know you're dragging the car dealer down to the
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bar where he's having dinner with his wife and complain about you're not over there and you know the state of the union address and upbraid the supreme court because they were disagreeing with you it was a change the chart leaders ok the more of united big picture on the left of the bridge. it was a. very hard to take a. long line have you ever had sex with her make her look.
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like. look. for the. balcony scene story doesn't make it news you saw no puff pieces tom clancy thank you. think. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question for. back
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to today's big picture rumble with kyle peterson nicole williams and horace cooper and let's get back to it. the debt ceiling this this is a very interesting congress is going to have to raise the u.s. debt ceiling back to over seventy and that the federal government is going to start defaulting on its financial obligations now just to be clear what this means is not that more money has been appropriated to beans to be spent what it means is that the government is going to be able to pay for the six trillion dollars for the wars that george bush started for the two trillion dollars for the tax cuts that george bush put for the for the other costs associated with the great recession for as a consequence of thirty two years of reaganomics and these bills have to be paid
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and the simply authorize the government to pay them and the treasury department they released a report on thursday is going to default might prove catastrophic and could potentially result in a financial crisis that of course that would. in a financial crisis and recession that could echo the events of two thousand and eight or worse so now the fourteenth amendment option the white house has taken off the table which i think is kind of dumb but but it would cause a constitutional crisis there's no doubt about that it would also certainly lead to an impeachment proceeding no doubt about that so where are we at with all of this kyl well i don't think i don't think that default is going to happen i think the process is working i think this is the how the game of politics is played it's like a chess you try to maneuver your opponent into an undesirable so this is this is this is not chicken it's just they're maneuvering obama do none of the position and they're trying to get what they want to be a conflict of visions in this country there are two parties who have very different their sights other very different futures and this is where that is half that out
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apple pro that horace i've been saying. for a couple of days now that i think that what we're seeing is the the existential battle being played out here if all. the reason that the democrats or the republicans are willing to go to the mattresses they're willing to shed blood literally over obamacare is because if obamacare succeeds then it demonstrates that government actually does work and if people conclude that government actually does work then they might elect people who would say yes we believe government does work so we're going to regulate the coke refineries we're going to regulate the billionaire banks and banks and the people who are funding the tea party are going to find that they're not as profitable as they used to be you and i talk about this all the time and this is religion for you guys you don't look at the facts every single nation that's modern every social democracy is recognizing the failure of having government run health care they're privatizing we they're cutting people off on trees wesen and women norway just announced with their recent elections
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australia says that is the one of them all and they don't need national regimes they are you know meet a national army or don't think of them and they are identifying that as one of the primary drivers of the deficit and the debts but their countries face we have the evidence already. admitted we're the my religion i'm here for to believe what's going on for at least some of the least simply are your lie and i put it simply not true as none of these countries have repudiated a national health care program that could the only kind anyway i like that is so that i don't test that the test when one of the first european countries come forward and repudiate then you'll tell me oh it was seen the light ok well they were closer than you are switzerland yes switzerland has no national health care program there is no national health care for but they require that everybody have health care and they made it a felony to run a health insurance program on
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a for profit basis and therefore their program runs quite well and it costs half of what ours does that is government on regulated health care that all of those however my job. all of it is docking about ron and the reason for that is i'm a regular they are on their hello grossest i'm not talking much what's in the lion's share of the new additions with obamacare are going to be going into the medicaid program it is normally a free program but these lucky people will get to pay for sub par sub quality limited the a million people are going to chop out of medicaid because they're pulling out of the state and certainly people who presently are not insured when they go to the obamacare program to sign up significant number of the lower income ones are going to be pushed into the medicaid program that is government run it is par and if you ask the very people who were added by health insurance if you asked the very
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people who have to deal with that medicaid bad maltreatment every day they would tell you no we don't want that we want something better well everybody would always say that about everything i hear called ready to let people who are you don't know where those states have opted out of obamacare where those states have not set up their own state exchanges as well so problems are that will teach him the medicaid program and will give them the rusty needles and all of the terrible time many governors are doing to syria and well actually it's even more here it's fascinating yesterday i had a caller to my program from missouri just listen to this. buy in. missouri if i. know tom i was yesterday for the first time since the or the full health care act has started and i was surprised at how very ignorant people and my state are about the benefits of this no one knows
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a thing about it it's like there's a complete news blackout on the newspapers not talking about you know there's not there's not a billboard there's not a postcard there's nothing that. and she went on to say the one article that she did see was saturday a week ago saturday in the paper that the missouri legislature passed a law saying that any state employee who talked about obamacare could be subject to arrest now i don't know if she was exaggerating know there are states that have said that people cannot advise people about obamacare and because i was at tyson's corner a week and a half ago and there were lines all over the place to get that i thought no but i didn't see billboards i didn't see people reaching out you don't think apple has an advertising myth i don't see you know but they have a popular product and people may want to or you know there's a modest how do you try to tell me that apple doesn't have a p.r. firm that they spend they want to do millions. who i don't know if it is the the
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p.r. products commercials on t.v. about the new little i phone that's not pleased those are apparently there are those that's free. and i want to see them but this is you know as a bigger dick than works we don't have have one system we have a federal government we have fifty states and expecting all those fifty states to give it a line is just not how the system is supposed to operate well to do this thing with english and the way they see it when hands of say it's a right to ask a state to simply tell their citizens that there is a new federal benefit that's administered by the state available to them does not seem like an unreasonable thing to expect that no one in three and a half years has ever heard of this is ridiculous it is not heard of up people who are going up we're talking about populate is and i know no it isn't in d.c. and they couldn't even figure out how to access it themselves very well educated informed. in the call of you seeing the member sign of curves for massachusetts when romney care went into it for a while for the first couple months there was very few sign ups and then as they
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got close to closing the window and by then it just became educated about the benefits that the program offered and what more people realize you know how to go about finding enough i mean this is where any empathy if there's no more progress as we trick. more young people into subsidizing older people as we trick more healthy people into subsidizing sick people we'll see this go up so what you're also going to see is a greater amount of unpopularity that is the reason why the individual mandate is being sought out because it compels people who might not want to have made that choice a lot of us want to hear on a day she proposed accomplishments by that's why mitt romney put on a lot of eyes would have been to say ok we will advertise instead of compelling and a republican stripped the advertising money out of the budget absolutely and i didn't say i want to i that's. the one thing i would say is the only thing worse than a government boondoggle is an advertisement for government i mean red states this is just throwing good money after bad i mean remember i don't know which super bowl
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it was i was watching the super bowl right now we're going to tax payers money i was watching the super bowl years ago our money they and it was a census and you remember the census ad and it really was i want to the sense that i think it was twenty ten and it was a weird ad and you could hear the silence across america afterward after it ended people said what was that and come to find out the newspaper the next day the a million dollars for that which is just crazy what is the saddle to do with the census you know not as big as you would offend regular paying for their cars governor but a stupid ad you want to say about i wish never advertise as that is what i want to settle this i would've said this the white house should have said we'll give you this one year delay and you give us the funding so that we can trick people into getting into a trick people compromise trickle of people children might get word choice is your use of the word choices you think you think young people should not have health insurance i think young people should not be forced to get maternity care if they
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don't want to especially if they're men i think fifty five there and women yes you are every single program provider is required under these rules to provide that care so that they can balance out the cost to the all of the participants look at the absolutely. you know it's so there are no longer pain have insurance rates than if you need more services you have to pay more if i want to use more minutes on my phone i pay more if we don't get some fresh air i have the breaking your leg when your kid weighs one discretionary to a car and it's only to have cancer is just very well who understand that they're responsible for the costs associated with their health treat their health better than people who know but someone else is going to be said that while everybody gets cancer decided to do all no not at all but but the point is that this is introducing more distortions of the market for conservatives one of the biggest problems in health care market is crisis opacity i agree that the market is broken so i'm going to give it all and say let's fix it let's not break it more let's end
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the subsidy for employer sponsored health care let's create price transparency so you can do so in the reality that health care is no longer tax deductible no going to the exact same tax where you can make it to people who buy individual health care right i say oh you know there is make a tax deductible to individual ok i don't disagree with that i'm in fact out there so that obamacare is good but the point is that's not going to solve the problem at all and so that only helps rich people or the middle class that it all got enough money to buy health insurance sure sure but if the market works right and we've seen this with all sectors we've seen with automobiles we've seen this everywhere if you want to i suppose if the market works right the incentives lower the price that's right and broaden the availability that absolutely not all have insurance for houses not burning down and that insurance is called fire departments why if we all collectively get together and say we're going to pay to make sure that our houses don't burn down why don't we all collectively get together we. sure as you
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can after that but it's a false statement there is what forms of places across this country where you have giant not have fire department you ever heard of the term fire department but there was a big case went to see where they didn't pay the volunteer fire department and. came and watched their house burn down it is not true you build these premises that are just not true you can say there should be but it is not or you know you know you are son of america we have. shouldn't shouldn't i mean the thing is there are some glitches but we need to overcome them and the thing about it is that the market is broken the market for health care is book and we pay more per person out of all developing countries i got a record no matter what it is spelled it is broken but because so much of it is for profit is filled with hustlers and national peterson the call williams horoscope yes all all in favor of the shells and i was just me. but if you coming out there and found your affair shocked the american public but how much do we really know
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about the scandal that should have brought down a presidency as daniel she had in tonight's conversations with great. i know c.n.n. the m.s.m. b c news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close enough for the truth and might think. it's because when full attention and the mainstream media works side by side with you actually on here. and our teen years we have a different approach. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how.
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you guys talk to the jokes will handle this. kind of. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question more. for
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tonight's conversations with great minds i'm joined by constitutional trial attorney daniel she and daniel is one of the most influential public interest lawyers in the country worked on a number of cases including the pentagon papers case and the current karen silkwood case that have changed the course of american history in one nine hundred eighty founded the christic institute where he served as general counsel and chief trial attorney daniel has also served as chief trial attorney for the marrow institute and the chief trial counsel for the a.c.l.u. use rocky mountain states chapter his new book the people's advocate the life and
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legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer is a must read for anyone who wants to know the inside story of some of the most important trials of the past half century and welcome to the show thank you tom thanks so much for being with us i'm curious why. what got you interested in the law in the first place how did it start with you did what drew you into this and then what got you into this kind of law. actually originally back in one thousand nine hundred sixty three when i graduated from high school i was going to go to the air force academy and it turns out that i was number one in the competition for new york state for the senatorial appointment but jacob javits of the united states senator actually gave the appointment to the son of one of his major financial contributors. so i went back to the congressional district to get their congressional district appointment and congressman gave the appointment to the son of the republican mayor of guns falls and so i was completely freaked out that the
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rules didn't seem to be working it struck me that the system was out of tune so i decided i would become a lawyer and spend some time helping to tune the system to get it back into tune but the more time i spent being a lawyer the more i realized that the system wasn't really out of tune it's just that it was playing a completely different song from that which we had been told when we were in high school and studying civics so i decided i was going to be a lawyer and i became a civil rights lawyer found the civil rights law review at harvard the harvard law school and went on to practice in this particular area at that time from one thousand nine hundred sixty eight that sort of halcyon year when i was the the editor of the harvard civil rights law review all the way through in while i was there i actually initiated the case that went to the united states supreme court to establish the right of journalists to protect their confidential news sources and
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because of that i was hired by the number one law firm on wall street that represents n.b.c. and there i was i was there when we received the pentagon papers so i became intimate lee involved in the initial decisions to decide whether to publish the papers. and if so what was going to happen with the nixon administration and so i went into doing that in was in all of the closed door hearings with the judges in all we do know is the supreme court i was one of the few lawyers that was deeply involved in that all the way to the end. from there i went to bally's office and i was there when he was retained to represent james mccord in the watergate burglary so i ended up finding out about what was exactly going on what caused the watergate burglary what was behind the watergate burglary and because of that i left in went back to harvard to go to divinity school after having finished harvard college in sixty seven harvard law school in seventy in one hundred seventy three i went back
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to harvard divinity school. studied the the origins of natural law and the relationship of natural law to the constitution of united states and so that's how i ended up in this particular specialized area of the law that's remarkable i mean you've been at the pivot point of so many major american historical it's the thing that makes your book so so amazing the people's advocate it's almost it's almost four is gone like except that you were intentional about all this stuff you were being driven right you know it's you you were you said you were involved in the and all the way to the supreme court the first essentially shield laws would go yes what are your thoughts on the on the current state of that i mean right now we have dianne feinstein saying that we have to define what a journalist is and it seems to me and please correct me because you're the guy who knows this stuff and i don't but it seems to me that instead of protecting journalists we need to be protecting acts of journalism because we live in an era
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where pretty much anybody can commit an act of journalism which should be protectable in other words revealing something and blowing the whistle. probably people can make publishers tomorrow you know put up a blog. and but to say that oh we're only protecting journalists. and somebody is only a journalist if they drop a check from a company that we approve of is the first step down the road to state certification of of and say control alternately of a process your thoughts this is this this is all this is all part and parcel as you know time of the descending upon the united states of this national security state mentality that's happened since nine eleven and in that in that period of time says nine eleven we have kind of an increasing drumbeat of a kind of reactionary fear driven. policies in the united states now and this is one of them to try to cut back against the major shield laws that we got passed back in one nine hundred seventy one seventy two and seventy three we
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got all these shield laws stablished on the grounds that it was a belief of the state legislatures that there was a clear constitutional right of journalists to protect their contents from news sources in order to continue to to have the flow of information coming especially with regard to government corruption and national security matters almost all of those issues arose around national security matters so that the relationship between the right of journalists protect their confidential news sources and the right of the new york times to publish the classified forty seven biomes of the pentagon papers was an intimate relationship that was there and i was there for both of those cases and they helped establish what the principals and rules were but what happened is that there was a reaction this set in against this that as we know the high watermark the high watermark of this entire confrontation between our generation the idealist generation of the twenty first century and the world war two generation that major
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confrontation came to a head over the vietnam war and in the pentagon papers case in what happened is the reactionaries in that generation struck back and they brought into power. ronald reagan they brought him into power and as you as you all know of course the chairman of his a campaign was bill casey and they actually came to power by actually striking a deal with the hezbollah to continue to keep our fifty two american hostages that have been taken at the embassy in iran to keep them in custody until after the election at which point ronald reagan agreed not only to to give them told missiles but to also provide other kind of assistance to the has been in the right wing muslim brotherhood and we've seen the repercussions of that now you know fifteen eighteen years later we're now confronted by these people who are armed in
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a large part by the reagan and bush administrations so that this the practice of constitutional law has placed me right at the center of a lot of the major issues that arose not only around the vietnam war on the right of journalists to protect their confidential privileges but also the fact of all the issues that are going on now with the national security state the attempt to chase down edward snowden his his need to retreat into one of the very two countries in the whole world to china and then russia. treating him to these places where the few places where the united states military doesn't deem themselves authorized to just go in and unilaterally assert its power its full spectrum dominance which was the theme of those reactionaries inside the reagan bush administrations and in the w. bush administration this this policy is basically attempting to replicate the nineteenth century imperialist worldview that was that was dominant in the western
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civilization prior to the rise of the soviet union in one thousand nine hundred seventeen and as soon as the soviet union dissolved itself terribly in december and december thirty first of one thousand nine hundred one the paul wolfowitz and the others that were in there the bushes. senior administration at that time came together in designed this entire foreign policy concept of full spectrum dominance and that's what we're looking at right now we're living in the domestic side of a national security state and it is engaged in a global policy of the establishment of full spectrum dominance on the part of united states military that's what's happening right now and as a constitutional lawyer my obligation is to protect our american people and to protect the world from unconstitutional conduct on the part of our executive branch and also on the part of our united states congress and we've been attempting to do this through the judicial branch a legendary independent judicial branch but since since the election of ronald
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reagan seventy three percent of all of the federal judges that been appointed have been appointed by ronald reagan or george bush and george bush jr you know in that we have these reactionaries in the federalist society now in the judicial branch which are making it virtually impossible to seek protection from the judicial branch against the unconstitutional conduct of the executive so a constitutional litigation attorney such as myself find myself right at the center of these types of confrontations between the raw assertion of executive power whether it's rendition or torturing people or asserting the right under the national defense authorization act to unilaterally arrest american citizens and hold them in detention with no right of habeas corpus and the right to counsel and no one would believe that this could possibly have happened in our country but here it is what i do in the book in the people's advocate as i explained from a front row seat that i had throughout these entire last three decades what it
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looked like seeing this national security state coming descend upon our country that's why the book is so important not because it's all about me because it's not it's about an era of when this happened how it is that the executive branch step by step by step moved into. of asserting its power not only over the united states citizen to threaten to arrest us without right to counsel or a right to a trial by a civilian jury we can now be tried in front of a military tribunal and be convicted and sentenced to life in prison without a single civilian review by any court at all now this is quite outrageous in the book the people's advocate explains step by step how this came to pass so that people can see how this came to pass so that we can mobilize to do something about it and that's why i think it's important for people to read the book in understand how we came to this pass so that we can know what to do about it you know and one of the more important pivot points we're trying to daniel in the book that he's
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referring to is the people's advocate the life and legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer one of those probably pivot points was the was the iran contra affair and president bonny solder of iran was elected in one thousand nine hundred eighty during that campaign ronald reagan versus jimmy carter on a platform in iran freeing the hostages he won overwhelmingly and he published an op ed piece in march of this year of this year twenty thirteen in response the movie argo published an op ed piece saying the vast majority of iranians did not want to hold the hostages after he was elected he went to the to the mullahs and said ok and this was while the campaign was still going on here in the united states said let's free the hostages and they said to him no you can't we cut a deal with the reagan campaign that was published in the christian science monitor in march of this year and there wasn't a peep about it you know the president of iran saying that president reagan committed treason how i'd love to get your thoughts on that we have to take
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a quick break and we'll come right back with that daniel she had more of kind of tonight's conversations of the great minds of daniel right after the break. drama is the chance to be ignoring the. stories of others who refused to notice. the food since changing the world rights never. on full picture of today's events on the phone to and from around the globe. broke to the. t.v. .
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a public. oversight. that you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy shred albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several weeks when a hydrogen client handful of transnational corporations they will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told us i'm tom are going to get on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem try rational debate and a real discussion of critical issues facing america if i ever go ready to join the movement then walk a little bit there. looking
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pretty dumb thinking that you know that you will find it here if you're looking for a balanced stories you need perspective from tom my skin's. and welcome back to conversations with great minds i'm speaking with daniel sheehan constitutional trial attorney founder of the christic institute and author of the new book the people's advocate the life and legal history of america's most fearless public interest lawyer to get back to where we left off we were talking about how actually let me let me put this in a slightly larger frame because in your book you talk about these things richard first of all jack kennedy was killed and whoever did that apparently got away with it. then then we have this other turning point where richard nixon committed a number of crimes he got away with many but he didn't get away with all of news forced out of office so there and there was a lot of stuff that came out of that church committee and you know the laws of
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transparency it was a major turning point and then and then reagan bush reagan committed this crime to come into office committed what i would argue is treason to get office and was never prosecuted although you were involved in trying to prosecute him these are each kind of like cyclical flips historical cyclical flips what are your thoughts on that and you can start out by responding to my comments about what president. i'm curious your thoughts on why the american media did not touch its public proclamation that reagan had. cut a deal in the background with the rain so all the hostages. this is this is what addressed very directly the gary sick who was the national security council advisor to president jimmy carter working with him to go she has written a book called the october surprise and in that he has a whole conclusion where he says those of us who have lived in washington d.c.
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for twenty years or more have. come accustomed to the petty scandals in washington an individual senator will be found to have been a womanizer a chronic womanizer or a congressman will be caught dipping his hand into the till of his campaign pose for his private uses it cetera and when that kind of a scandal is exposed all the media rush in and all of their colleagues excoriate those people for having done wrong doing of that nature and everyone celebrates how the system really works and how the media really come to the to the rescue of the american people in cases like that but gary sick pointed out in his conclusion he said however that those of us who have spent twenty years or more in washington know that there's another entirely different category of crime is being committed in washington upon occasions and in that case the it is a kind of a crime that is so threatening that if it's revealed by the american media or by the american political structures it will undermine the blind confidence on the part of the governed in their governors now if i think that's what if i could if i
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could interrupt you of just very quickly and speak to that we've played on this program just two years ago i believe it was the johnson library the l.b.j. library finally released the tapes of his conversations when he was in the white house and we played this tape of lyndon johnson talking to everett dirksen during the campaign when when vice president humphrey was running against nixon sixty eight saying we know that nixon is cutting a deal with the south the and the means not to go to the bargaining table in paris because he had already cut a deal with the south it means he's going to end the vietnam war before the election we know that he says he says i'm reading their hand average this is treason and everett dirksen says yes it is and he says you got to tell him our ad and but it and then and then l.b.j. goes on to say we can't let the american people know about this average it will destroy their confidence in america back to use well what it what it does is the droid's the confidence in the republican and democratic party is that what the that's what they're most fearful about in we know that rich. nixon cut the deal
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with the south with the vietnamese we know that the reagan bush administration in one thousand nine hundred eighty cut the deal with the muslim brotherhood we know who was in the meeting we know the meetings were in paris we know the meetings were in madrid we know all about that and when in fact anybody tried to raise that in any of the major news media etc for example in new york times it's not news that is fit to print it is not fit to print and so they will not reveal that because there is a there is a clique a kind of a governing elite in the united states i know because i ended up i ended up being i was i got the biggest scholarship ever warded to an american to go to harvard college and i came out of a blue crab a blue collar setting my father was the first man in our family ever to graduate from high school and so i ended up getting to go to harvard and go to harvard law school where i was there with all these people from all of the major private schools in the private academies that came in there i see how they train an entire
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class of people to govern in this country that's why you see so often the people that are presidents and senators and others they're from harvard and yale in from the other ivy league schools they all belong to the same clubs they all they all in fact marry each other's daughters and sons it's an elite a kind of a royalist set in there very much connected to the major financial houses you get people like brown brothers harriman where you have j.p. morgan as part of that rockefeller's are all part of that major financial barons are all part of that in the chairman of the c.e.o. of brown brothers harriman was george herbert walker and george that prescott bush that's right he was the you know when the nazis prescott bush in fact married the daughter of george herbert walker and that's how he got to be the chairman of the board of brown brothers harriman when when george herbert walker went to set up a bank the union bank of new york that helped set up
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a branch. in the netherlands they helped fund hitler to rise to power as the ball worked against communism in europe now these are historical facts that those of us who work in this area the special area have come to know very well what we've been trying to do is when we had some can access to the judicial branch we could get to the judicial branch in place this type of information before a jury and ask a jury to decide what they think about something like this the problem is now that with such a huge majority of the federal judges all appointed by ronald reagan george bush are left over from richard nixon in ford you know that the problem is they don't care about the constitution they basically think the constitution is the ship that sits in the harbor in boston that this is a political war that they view themselves as being involved in and what we have to try to decide is whether or not we as american citizens are going to join together to rise up to do something about this this is what we talk about in the book and
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that's what the people's advocate is all about that when i represent individuals that is not representing just the individual who's representing our entire american people attempting to stand up and take power back away from this ruling elite and take it back into the hands of the people that's what the book is all about that's why people should read the book and then they should really figure out what to do in the present situation for example with the national defense authorization act that was signed into law eleven fifty five pm on new year's eve of two thousand and eleven by obama which authorizes the rest of us and put in front of military tribunals we need to move in organize ourselves to establish constitutional protections omes we need to go to the city councils in our city we need to go to our county boards of supervisors and have them declare that they will instruct our law enforcement officers to not allow any federal officials to come into their jurisdiction and attempt to a four enforce that unconstitutional statute just like we did when we established
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the the nuclear free zone. moments to stop the american federal government from transporting the waste elect the nuclear waste from the one hundred three nuclear facilities in the country after we won the karen silkwood case and the three mile island litigation i was chief counsel in both of those cases and what we did is we enforced those that opinion from the court we enforced it by getting city councils and county boards of supervisors to declare their jurisdictions to be nuclear free zones so that the government could not transport those waste materials from those hundred three facilities and put them under yucca mountain in nevada which is what they were trying to do which we later discovered was over the largest aqua aquifer in the entire southwest the american people we need to understand that we cannot rely upon this class of people this elite class of people to rule in our favor because they won't they will rule in favor of the bankers they will rule in favor of the major corporations they will rule in favor of the other people in
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their elite clan that they have got that we need to rise up in to assert ourselves and to go into our local city councils our local boards of supervisors and declare that they will instruct their law enforcement officials to defy any federal official that tries to come into their jurisdiction to enforce that statute which is clearly and plainly not only unconstitutional but in absolute defiance of the most fundamental principles of our constitution depriving us of free speech freedom of association the right to counsel the right to habeas corpus the most fundamental pillars of our entire constitutional system have been set aside by that particular statute all in the name of alleged anti-terrorism after the bush administration george bush sr sent two hundred fifty thousand united states military forces into the heartland of the oil fields of the middle east to attempt to establish full full spectrum dominance over the natural resources of the planet as soon as the soviet union voluntarily dissolved that's what we're faced at the present time with
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in the. american people need to wake up and mobilize that's what lawyers are for and that's why the people's advocate is advocating these type of things for all of the people one by one and all collectively that's what i do as a profession in the in the minute and a half or two minutes that we have left i'm i'm curious your thoughts on the generational dimension of this you talk about this is some length and the introduction of your book oh yeah it well what it what it is is there's there's a book that was written by william strauss. it's called generations the history of america's future. and what it points out is that in every hundred year period there are four generations that are born from approximately twenty one to twenty five years each and what the one nine hundred sixty s. the period that's referred to as the sixty's really represented a fundamental confrontation between our generation and the idealist generation of the twenty first century eighty two million people strong in rising up to attempt to get the world war two generation to come to grips with the fundamental flaws
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that we had discovered in the system and now those flaws are coming to full fruition with the massive global climate change that we're confronted with the grossly unstable economy that we have now these are crises that are going to fall upon the new generation the civic generation of the millennium the second largest in the second best educated generation in the history of the world seventy two seventy two million strong we need to form a coalition to organize ourselves to to remedy these fundamental problems because the idealists are aware of what the fundamental ideals of our country are in the civic generation the millennial us are the ones we're going to have to confront and resolve these fundamental crises of the twenty first century that's what william strauss and neil talk about in their book called generations a history of america's future and this is what i discuss at some length in the book to explain why it is that our generation got into such a major confrontation with the world war two generation of george herbert walker
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bush and ronald reagan in the others and that is what we need to train our people the next generation the millennial generation to partner with us to address these fundamental crises that's what the book is all about i think that is what the people's advocate as about and i think i think you've actually nailed it in fact it's astounding to me and when i travel around the country speaking on these issues the audiences are made up of people in their twenty's and people in their fifty's and sixty's and seventy's daniel she and you read a brilliant book you've lived an extraordinary life and you continue to do extraordinary work the people's advocate the life and legal history. america's most fearless public interest why are there an honor to have you on the program and i thank you for joining us thank you times pleasure to be here. to see this and other conversations with a great minds go to our website and conversations of great minds dot com. and that's the way it is tonight friday october fourth two thousand and thirteen day four of the government shot shutdown and don't forget the mocker see begins with you get out there get back to your.
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project a free media down to r.t. dot com. coming up on our t.v. in the nation's capital a woman was fatally shot as she tried to drive through barricades near the white house and capitol building and then led police on a high speed chase what we've learned about the suspect and how police responded to the scare head and the government shutdown has now entered day four lawmakers on capitol hill are still playing the blame game but is there any chance to break the impasse the latest coming out last year the i.r.s. collected billions of dollars in taxes but some are calling for a change to the state tax critics say the tax is having a hardship on small businesses we'll look at the issue later in the show. it's right.


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