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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  November 11, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am EST

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standard. this open carry group and others like it, their intent is purely to intimidate. they are clearly not going hunting. sit only there to intimidate our members in this case and mothers in other states just to be bullies. >> to be bullies. >> thank you very much for joining us with that report from texas. thank you very much. chris hayes is up next. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. 60 minutes had all weekend to prepare for the big apology and clarification and most importantly explanation of how it put an eyewitness on the air with a now discredited story on attacks on americans in benghazi libya. when viewers tuned in last night they got an apology, but that
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was about it. the legendary cbs news show 60 minutes is in damage control mode in a way it hasn't been in almost a decade. >> tonight you'll hear for the first time from a security officer who witnessed the attack. >> on october 27, it broadcast a report on benghazi using a so called eyewitness suggesting the united states government could have sent backup to the mission in libya during the attack that killed four americans last year. >> one guy saw me. they just shouted. i couldn't believe he had seen me. it was so dark. he started walking towards me. >> as he was coming closer -- >> i hit him with the butt ofl rifle in the face. >> the star eyewitness had already told the fbi he was not there on the night of the
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attack. that differing account for 60 minutes to finally admit the error. >> nobody likes to admit they made a mistake. if you do, you have to stand uptake responsibility and say you were wrong. >> we remember the last thyme cbs news made a blunder this big. the bush national guard story broadcast by 60 minutes, september 8, 2004. >> did bush fulfill off of his military commitments? how did he land the coveted spot in the guard in the first place. tonight we have new documents and information on the president's military service and first ever interview with the man who says he pulled the strings to get young george w. bush into the air national guard. >> the story revolved around documents that discredited george w. bush's performance in the guard. certain documents could not be authenticated. 60 minutes had to admit they
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made a mistake. >> we made a mistake. i'm sorry for it. cbs news embarked on a mission to prove to the public it was worthy for their trust. >> having acknowledged standards were violated, cbs news named a panel to # investigate what went wrong. thornburgh and lewis. >> the independent blue panel released the findings. they were highly critical of the news organization. >> a major shakeup at cbs. >> the panel found the report on 60 minutes to be full of errors. >> the producer who's reputation was you considered so solid the panel found few had questioned her reporting. she was fired, three superiors asked to resign. >> as were dan rather, he stepped down as anchor of the cbs evening news in march the same year in a move widely
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believed by the controversy. >> to my fellow journalists. reporting the truth is risking all top. each of you courage. >> given the obvious similarities with this benghazi story, many were expecting a similar level of explanation. instead we got this. >> we realized we had been misled. it was a mistake to include him in our report. to that we are very sorry. the most important thing to every person at 60 minutes is the truth. the truth is, we made a mistake. >> 85 seconds of the broadcast devoted to their mistake. there are still a lot of questions about how this happened. most importantly how laura logan in a year of working on the story never apparently discovered the discrept say in security contractor's account
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and why cbs news doesn't think we deserve an answer to how that happened. joining me now david frock. the newly released ebook call the benghazi hoax. >> about ten days ago now i asked for a retraction of the story but also independent review. i felt more strongly about that over the next week because of how they reacted. they stone walled, covered up during that period when they knew there was a problem. laura logan attacked krit you cans -- attacked as if we couldn't have the the facts. these are folks that rightly demand the accountability of others. i think they should practice what they preach. it was not nearly satisfying. now my own view on this is this is now 60 minutes and cbs'
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problem. it's a problem for their brand. mission accomplished as far as i'm concern eed is the story is shown to the public. the effect is to reverse the dynamic in which the main stream media is getting the lies they're feeding them. more skepticism. we talk a lot about fox. cbs coverage of benghazi has been troubling a side from this for a year. >> what is the parallel? i keep thinking about clintons and white water. i think about something identified as a scandal and reasons for it being a scandal keep changes or being reversed engineered around the conclusion it's a scandal. benghazi, we've gone through seven or eight it rations of what the scandal is. obviously a horrible tragedy and outrageous awful thing that happened, four americans killed. what the cover up is, that has
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changed seven or eight times whether it was intelligence or a protest. my question to you is someone close to the world of clintons and covered a tax on the clintons for years, do you see this as white water 2.0? >> sure. benghazi is white water. in writing this book, one of the things i felt was a sense of deja vu all over again. i was involved in covering the clinton scandals and uncovering them and exposing the conspiracy. you had right wing lawyers coaching whistle blower witnesses. >> feeding them to media. >> then they testify and not to what the lawyers tell the press. there's a lot of aspect to this phony stuff. the smoking gun darrel produced. a cable showing that secretary clinton lied underoechth it ends up the washington post shows the cable was auto penned.
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she had no knowledge of it. >> i want to bring in stephen, now broadcaster at stony brook university. you were there during the phenomenon national guard story that became such a huge story. were you expecting more on sunday night? >> i was expecting more in the way of clarification and more in the way of transparency. i don't see a tremendous number of parallels between if story several years ago and this story. this is in a way much more straight forward my estimation. >> it was who the heck made the documents? how did they get out there? >> what wasn't a mystery was who the guiding force was behind the story. that was the producer marry maips. who brought the story to and was the driving force. in this case, we don't know the driving force.
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who really wanted to get this on the air? the correspondent? executive producer? booking department? simon particularly? that's why accountability becomes a little murky. >> here's where i think the parallel is of the national guard story at the top of the program. it is that were the shoe on the other foot, this would be a huge story. if this were some liberal pet liberal issue that was debunked by a witness who had essentially lied or appears to have lied or told the fbi something else -- i remember in the midst of that story, like the biggest story out there. the ability of the right wing echo to turn it into the biggest story in the world. in the midst of a campaign, talking act the president's service record. these are intense things. i still think we're seeing in the fall of this the a symmetry of the pressure on right and
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left around issues like this. >> that's absolutely right. the times speculated one of the issues was the right was much louder in the case. the net work was scared of the right. economically they were scared of a right wing boycott of the show. what's different here is, it's little media matters and journalism professors -- >> it's also the white house and state department and the most powerful people in the world. >> sure. the republican party was out there attacking dan rather. i don't see the democratic party doing that. >> i want to play this clip from laura logan. i have no opinions one way or another about laura's body of work and don't feel i'm here to go after laura logan. i know this story and her other work. this is a speech given to the better government association in chicago last year.
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take a listen. >> there's a big song and dance whether this was a terrorist attack or protest. you want to scream for god's sake, are you kidding me? the last time was the prelude to the 1999 embassy bombings prelude to 9/11. you're sending in fbi to investigate. i hope to god you're sending in your best warriors who are going to exact revenge and let the world know the united states will not be attacked on its own soil. >> here's my issue with this. i love to get as a journalism professor i'd like to get your response. everyone knows what my strong feels are when they come and look into this television set. they know where i'm coming from. say whatever you want about the sentiment i hope to god you're sending in your best warriors to go in exact revenge and let the
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world know u.s. will not be attacked. that's not an unbiassed sentiment. that's a strong point of view on what happened and what the response should be. what bothers me is the projection of neutrality that is necessary for 60 minutes to exist. this is the background context. >> this is the point bill keller and green world was bouncing back and forth. this statement of laura, going to be more and more apparent, raising the stakes even more for the importance for cbs to be transparent about just how the vetting process was done. this is ultimately a failure of good journalism. it's a verification process that was not followed. >> you have one source, resting the most explosive things on that source. you've got to make sure. >> exactly. we have a high stakes story
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that's red meat to the right, everybody knows it. you're under more of an obligation particularly in this day and able to be transparent and do a better job reporting the story. it was interesting to hear -- there's a bit of arrogance at cbs by saying it wasn't until we found out that the fbi report was different that we're going to report it. the new york times beat cbs on the reporting. >> this is the key reporting mistake. in a year of reporting this story, you're cbs news. you can find out he talked to the fbi and what he told them. you're cbs news. you can find that out. >> i want to make one more point. i don't think anybody venn grates more than he does. he's the chairman of cbs news. notwithstanding how he's choosing to manage this in front of the public, i have no doubt he's going to take this very
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seriously internally. >> i don't think this is the last we've heard of it. coming up, the broadcaster shows the moment of impact. a wall of water 20 feet high by some accounts crashing into tacloban leaving the city of 220,000 in ruins. >> the philippines has on the front lines of climate change because they are literally on the front lines. more on the devastation there and what it means for their efforts ahead. aritable giving. . i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart.
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hi i'm chris hayes. my show is an hour long. the day is much longer. let me let you in on a little secret. when you follow on twitter, you'll find out what we're paying attention to earlier in the day, who our guests are and
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who the show is about. for those of you watching now, we'll toss in articles about what's prepared. you'll get this for the price of $3.99. type twitter.com and you're set. lifetime guarantee of news you don't want to miss. check out our facebook page. [ male announcer ] they are a glowing example of what it means to be the best. and at this special time of year, they shine even brighter. come to the winter event and get the mercedes-benz you've always wished for, now for an exceptional price. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease the 2014 e350 for $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. [ male announcer ] lease the 2014 e350 for $579 a month have hail damage to both their cars. ted ted is trying to get a hold of his insurance agent. maxwell is not. he's on geico.com setting up an appointment
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with an adjuster. ted is now on hold with his insurance company. maxwell is not and just confirmed a 5:30 time for tuesday. ted, is still waiting. yes! maxwell is out and about... with ted's now ex-girlfriend. wheeeee! whoo! later ted! online claims appointments. just a click away on geico.com. the old coast rode a route through the rubble mile after
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mile. entire neighborhoods washed away. tens of thousands of families lived around busy marketplaces and back streets. now parents scavenge for food. there's no you power, phone signal, internet or other way to send a message. >> that was a report from our british broadcasting partner int news describing the dyer situation in one city of the philippines. the world has witnessed one of the most powerful storms in recorded history. that's until the next one strikes. people of philippines are sifting through the wreckage left in the wake. devastation is yet to be realized. the cost of the storm could top $14 billion. as more human toll, more than 10,000 are feared dead. many are believed to be in
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tacloban. once over 200,000 resident, now completely levelled, streets filled with bodies. groups are completely overwhelmed by the incredible need. haiyan came in with a 20 foot storm surge. this was a category five. the size of the storm put into perspective of the red cross placing the typhoon over the map of the entire continue then tend states. it's a reminder of anyone leaving near water is dangerous. no one knows that than the citicit cities themselves. just today at the un climate talks in warsaw poland, the delegates from philippines offered emotional testimony to the world. >> devastation is staggering.
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i struggle to find words even for the images that we see on the news coverage. i struggle to find words to describe how i feel about the losses. after this hour, i agonize waiting for words for the fate of my very own relatives. he was met with a standing ovation. he pledged to fast until the meaningful outcome is in site. he was hopeful something will get done. >> we can fix this. we can stop this madness right now you right here in the middle of this football field and stop moving the goalposts. >> joining me now is columbia university climate scientists. years of living dangerously which i'm a correspondent for, appears next year. founder of the philippine youth climate movement for the
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philippine senate climate change committee. she was born and raised in the philippines. what are you hearing? >> thank you for having me here. it's a war zone. my uncle told me. he is in the area i grew up in. parents having children sucked from their arms. survivors don't have enough food, water, medicine and have been going without it. typhoon haiyan is the most powerful hurricane in the recorded history. death toll is rising, power lines are down. communications have been cut. the damage is yet unknown. we do know that it has gone stronger. these typhoons that we have due to warm ocean weathers. we are excreting pollution that is equivalent to 40,000
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hiroshima bombs every 24 hours, 19 million tons of global warming pollution every day. this accumulated climate change pollution caused by human activities traps this extra heat storing extra energy in the atmosphere. due to this, there's been broad scientific consensus these typhoons are increasing in strength because of this increase now. philippines is the third most vulnerable -- >> i want to stop you here and just talk about exactly what she said. obviously we have the focus now. getting people the relief and help they need and dealing with the horrible after math of this. the basic science of storms and their intensity. it's very hard to know what the cause of a given storm is in the philippines have been through many storms. the broader outlook of the peril
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places like philippines are in is clear in the future. >> that's a vulnerability. green gases in the atmosphere, more carbon dioxide side than we had in the industrial revolution, adding heat to the oceans causing expanding and sea level rise. there's the element as upper oceans warm, that's more fuel for a hurricane. that's your source of energy. >> that's the heat driving the thing? >> exactly right. there's other things that typhoons as well. the bottom ocean temperatures and as temperatures rise as we expect them to with climate change, that gives the potential for stronger storms. when we see the large storms adding a little to the winds, dramatically increases the devastation. >> for people watching this and thinking to themselves, i don't
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live -- i don't think anyone is quite that unsentimental, i don't live in the islands and don't care. the mass of human beings live near the ocean. this cannot be stressed enough. >> and it's rising. there's a climate change piece of sea level storms. we see people moving to vulnerable areas. population growth rates 2%. more people are moving to manila and other coastal areas. as you ex tract more ground water, the land is sinking as well. not only sea level rise due to green house gases but development patterns that drop the surface. >> i'm curious. i know island nations have been powerful voices in the international debate about how to address carbon pollution. is there say domestic pollution
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that it produces as the 13th most pop list country in the world? >> also the third most vulnerable country in the wo rld to be impacted by climate change. we're impacted on average 20 a year. this is the 24th one to hit us. this is a normal occurrence. when working in the philippines senate, i was lobbying for the climate change law and the renewal energy law built in the philippines. philippines is a country with 40% renewable energy. we're contributing very little to the green house gases as you know. i think it's on 2%. the united states and china are contributing to around 50% of the global warming. we're reimpacting the most. we don't have the climate finance to adapt to this catastrophe. we're losing 5% of our economy every year due to these storms.
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we just simply can't afford the lives that are lost. we can't afford losing our economy further. these people who have lost their lives and families and homes have not only lost everything but they've lost the livelihood providing them with the means to move on. they don't have it anymore. >> climate scientist, garcia from the philippines movement. thank you both. republicans come up with another way to kill obama care. it's a campaign called let todd work. who's todd? i'll explain and talk to someone trying to fix obama care next. appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen.
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life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition. jbut when it comes to investing, things i prefer to do on my own. i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship. that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab.
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when it comes to the current fight over obama care, there are two camps. people that want to fix it and people that want to see it broken permanently. there's not a lot of middle ground. standing firm is the chairman of the house who last week called on white house chief technology officer to testify about the rocky healthcare.gov roll out. that official todd park is trying to fix healthcare.gov. he was asked to schedule at a different time. he wasn't having it. in a letter friday he claimed he
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had no choice but to use a subpoena from mr. park to force him to appear before the committee. the let todd work campaign is for todd to keep trying to fix healthcare.gov instead of preparing for the congressional testimony. the top democrat called on him to drop the subpoena and issue a public opinion. he doesn't look ready to do that. you might know the creepy uncle sam ads convincing young people not to sign up for health care exchanges. the group took that to university of miami where the kroo creepy uncle sams posed with fans. they said they rolled in with a fleet of hummer, hired a popular
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student dj, brought out ambassadors with bull horns to help out. nice. what you're looking at is students at generation opportunity party which looks like there's a lot of opportunity going on there. there's another side to the obama care battle. there are people who are working day and night seven days a week to make obama care care work. the non profit with ties to the bam administration contacted 300,000 people this year. all is part of the push to get people signed up for the health care. all is key to getting enough americans on board to make the program work. this is a mission that's never seemed more vital. >> how are you?
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>> i'm great, chris. thanks for having me. >> how are things going? >> great actually -- >> you have to tell me that. >> anyone working on this issue is incredibly frustrated by the website. what folks rant ware of is what's going on beyond that. enthusiasm and what we're seeing. role america is recognizing there's opportunity ahead of us. people to gain access to affordable health care coverage for the first time. there needs to be effort to get them what they need. we launched the campaign about taking the best practices -- >> i want to stop you. i want to make clear what the stakes are. the human stake, people need access to health care. it's crazy we live in this country. i agree with you on all that. in this narrow actual sense,
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what you need is young healthy people in the pool. the risk pool doesn't work unless you get them in. you in role of america, you use the campaign used to find potential voters, you go out and find the people. >> we're taking the best practices from past enrollment practices or private sector markets. it's the combination of on the ground presence, being in communities, heating people where they naturally are going for information. using some of high-tech tools that for example, the obama campaign used. to identify who's likely uninsured, what's the message to resignate with them. how do we track it as we go to get people information to get them to enroll? >> are you hitting your target? >> we are. >> how is it possible you're hitting when website has been not been working when the
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coverage has been negative six weeks? how is it possible? >> you have to understand the process for a consumer to enroll in coverage is much more than going to a website. especially when you look at who the consumers are. they're uninsured often not the problem actually going to healthcare.gov frustrated. many aren't aware this opportunity is available to them. our metrics are about how many one on one conversations are we having? how many volunteers are involved? i'm a field organizer and worked on efforts like this. in january i joined the team. we had a staff of eight people. we have now over 200. what's more important than the staff is the number of volunteers. over 260 organization across the country have gotten involved, 10,000 volunteers have joined the effort. this is since the website issues
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began. >>like any campaign, you construct a funnel. you get volunteers and go and find people. you get down to voters. the question going forward is that last metric can't happen for role america which the thing is fixed. thanks for joining us. >> thanks. coming up, i'll talk to a panel of veterans on what it's like to be back home after being away at war. stay with us. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.
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but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive,y first. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron. the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation
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our moms met for lunch peacefully gathering and exercising the right to assemble. they all of a sudden looked out the windows. 40 armed people showed up pulling long guns out of the backs of their trucks. >> that was shannon watt the founder of a gun reforms kbrogr.
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what the armed demonstrators say. and also why the group is meeting in the first place. that's tomorrow night right here. whoo-hoo-hoo! yet many seniors who compare medicare d plans realize they can save hundreds of dollars. cvs/pharmacy wants to help you save on medicare expenses. talk to your cvs pharmacist, call, or go to cvs.com/compare to get your free, personalized plan comparison today. call, go online, or visit your local store today. when you do what i do, iyou think about risk.. i don't like the ups and downs of the market, but i can't just sit on my cash. i want to be prepared for the long haul. ishares minimum volatility etfs. investments designed for a smoother ride. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock.
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afghanistan. troops still in that country. no next year it will be a $2 million per soldier. 2.5 million vets have served in afghanistan. since previous engage ms, today we're talking about a small percentage of the population that serves in the the military. world war ii, approximately 9% served in the armed forces. in vietnam that number was around 2%. in 2011 it was less than 1%. according to the heritage foundation, folks serving are coming from texas, oklahoma, arkansas and louisiana. from a particular slice of american life, 80% of active duty members have less than a bachelors degree each veterans day, the media focuses on inexcusable backlog from veteran affairs something harry reid highlighted today to trauma
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related to ptsd to veterans having food taken out of their mouths because of last month's billion cut to the federal program. what gets lost in those programs, the experience of war, the experience most of society does not share. i've talked to veterans glad to be home from war next to husbands and wives, back to spending time with their kids. they misses the war and have a difficult thyme finding out why. one wrote, this veterans day, there's no need to thank us. take a minutes to talk to us, ask where we served, learn about what we did in the military and find out more about our lives. joining me now is managing director. i liked the piece you wrote in the washington post. why did you write it? >> for a long time after i came
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back from afghanistan, people said thank you for your service. you don't know what to say. say thank you back or say it was no problem. >> which is also weird. >> also strange. at some point a mentor of mine said, just say what your mother taught you to say, you're welcome. when someone says thank you, you say you're welcome. when i started saying you're welcome, it made me feel better knowing what to say. people were a little surprised that i would be willing to say you're welcome to their thank you for your service. i'm not sure exactly what they expected. then i was worried about saying you're welcome. i started thinking of what thank you means to americans. a lot of americans generally mean thank you for your service. they're patriotic, engaged, understand what it means to serve and sacrifice. there's a generation of veterans that want nothing more than to hear thank you for your service.
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maybe they were drafted or never thanked in the first place. the post 9/11 generation has been an all volunteer force for the duration of the wars. longest war in the history of our country. we've been thanked over and over again. we appreciate that. we want someone to ask us more. >> like what? >> ask us where we went. what we did. ask us how the food was, what the temperature was. most importantly for veteran, ask what's next in our lives. our lives as civically engaged individuals, those lives don't end when we take off our uniforms. while we are grateful for every thank you we get, we just need to hear something else after that that says we still want you, need you and think what you have here in your civilian clothes is just as important if not more important than what you did in uniform.
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>> also you're a person. i see you the person, the individual breathing person in front of me that's going to get up and go to a job tomorrow and not some type in my head that a apply this phrase to. that's a larger problem. >> it's the military divide. there's misunderstanding, misconceptions. as you mengtioned in the openin, we talk about detrimentdetrimen. a small group of post 9/11 veterans. what about leaders and the problem solvers coming home, having been trained by the taxpayer dollar. let's recoop investment. >> i want to talk about the divide and where folks are coming from that are volunteering for service in terms of parts of the country and change of what it's like to be coming back in 2002 or 2013. what's changed in that period of time. we'll be right back with two more veterans. stay with us.
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he served in the u.s. army in korea as a sergeant. rebecca, if i'm not mistaken you were working on a service hotline for folks that come back from serving? >> correct. i moved up here in 2011 and worked for a net work. i managed net work for women veterans and dealt with women in violence in the military. we covered the broad spectrum and issues women face when they return. >> what is the trajectory of terms of how the institutional
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rand scape changed from 2002 to now for folks returning? we've had a entire generation of people coming back. in 2002 there was nothing there. there was the vfw and organizations forged in other times. there's a landscape. >> it depends on where you are. california, new york, some of your larger metropolitan areas have great services available for women veterans. some of the other places, places heavily populated by women veterans are lacking in a lot of services. i'm from south carolina originally. housing for homeless veterans in the state is still really hard to find as opposed to here in the city. it's still challenging especially if you're a woman veteran with children. however, usually if you know the right people, you can get resources for individuals. sometimes it can still be tough to do. it really depends on location a lot of times. >> bob, as someone who came of age in the draft years, how do
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you sort of understand the kind of like, shift between that, those years and the culture we have now the all volunteer force. the all volunteer force is employed in active combat for 13 years? >> it's for, you know, 13 years? >> it's a big difference. in those years, which was part of the early post world war ii decades, nearly every family knew someone who had served in the military. now that is not the case. most of the time, if you travel the country, if you ask someone, do you know someone who's in the armed forces, they'll say no. so, what we've done -- >> although that depends a lot regionally, right? there are certain regions of the country -- >> no, but i'm talking about collectively, percentagewise in the american population, most people do not know someone who's served in the military. so, what happens is, we've created essentially a warrior class, and it is, as you pointed out, a very small percentage of the population.
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so, even with these wars they've been serving, three, four, five tours in the combat zone, this warrior class comes out of the service. the country is not prepared to reintegrate them into society and not much interested in their problems, to tell you the truth, so we are turning the warrior class into another underclass in this society and i think it's shameful. >> do you think that's true? >> i think the civilian-military divide absolutely exists, and i think there's really two areas of thought on it right now. one is veterans need our pity and they need our charity. and the other is, veterans who volunteer to serve and have, you know, borne the burdens of war are better for it. they are more experienced, they are stronger and they will respond to a challenge, and we need to challenge them. and i think today, if we focus on the ones who are, and we try to change this narrative so that all americans are starting to see that a veteran can come home to my neighborhood, my
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workplace, my church or my school and make it a better place, then we'll start to erode that idea of a segregation of veterans. >> can i suggest a third way of looking at it, right? which is that these are our fellow citizens who we have a deep, abiding, social connection to as we are bound in the same social contract and have taken on the specific duty in service of that social contract, but they're coming back, like we don't have full employment. we should have jobs for people, not just veterans, other people, too, but veterans are part of that contract we have. food stamps and health care, all these things that what ends up happening is on veterans day, we point these elements out, and i think you're right, it ends up being this way of talking about this as a specific problem, as opposed to a broader problem, which is we are bound to each other, right? and that's kind of thing that like voluntary for service exclaims almost louder than anything, and we have a duty to each other that goes above and beyond just our duty to veterans. we have a duty to citizens. >> right. >> i mean, we don't house a
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homeless veteran or give him a meal or a veteran some food because he's a veteran. it's because he's homeless. everybody deserves a home and they're people, right? so, i think it's about looking at the positives they get from military service. >> yet, there are specific issues. >> absolutely. >> specific kinds of isolation. >> after i got back and got out, i basically couch-hopped for two years and was unemployed and did not get a job until i moved up here in 2011. so, and i -- >> what was your feeling during that period of time? >> it's very -- it's very -- your self-esteem takes a huge hit. you kind of like, you know, i had a bachelors degree and i served in the army and i was in the bomb squad, for crying out loud, you know? like, i have all of these skills -- >> you know what your capabilities are. >> yes, i knew exactly what my capabilities are, and i couldn't get a job at mcdonald's. so, that's very challenging to kind of overcome that. and honestly, things were really looking up for me when i was like, hey, i have this job, i can start making forward progress, i can start helping other people. i kind of have a purpose for my
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life now. >> chris, we have an obligation to these veterans. we send them off to fight our wars. when they come back, they need educational services, they need housing and they need employment. and we need to make a special effort to meet their needs, and as a society, we're not doing that. >> do you think that there is something we could be doing that we're not that isn't just, we'll clear up the back log or things like that? obviously, we could have full employment, we could have a robust, growing economy that was just hiring people willy-nilly, which to me is like the thing that cures everything, but is there something? >> most of the things you talk about are either government-based or maybe non-profit organization based, even private sector based, and what you see especially on a day like veterans day is the individual american is left with this, what do i do? what do i do? what do i say? and they end up saying thank you for your service, which is great. i think sometimes it's as simple as having a conversation with a veteran. right? we have this civilian-military divide, we have people that don't understand what it's like to serve. why not ask?

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