tv The Katie Phang Show MSNBC July 10, 2022 4:00am-5:00am PDT
uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go. this is the katie phang show, live from miami florida we've. got lots of news to cover in lots of answers to question -- let's get started. we're getting our first looks at the highly dissipated documentary that was turned over to the january six committee. is called unprecedented. it features never before seen footage of the insurrection, and interviews with donald trump and his family. it was just released. we'll show you some highlights, and look ahead to tuesday's january six public hearing. plus, the irs is extremely rare audits of two trump foes. james colby, and andrew mccain.
this is raising serious allegations of abuse of power. did lightning strike twice? or is there something more nefarious going on here? alas former fbi counterintelligence agent, peter shout. later, is donald trump's greatest criminal vulnerability george's investigation into 2020 election interference? after a slew of subpoenas targeting some of trump's closest allies, that the da is not ruling out the trump could be next. i'll talk to a georgia state senator who testified before the fulton county grand jury. all of that and more is coming up. good morning and, happy sunday to you all. i am katie fang. let's start our show with the latest headlines. the next january six hearing is a little more than 48 hours away. tuesday's hearing is set to focus on potential white house
links to far-right extremist groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers. msnbc's political reporter julie adjuster is live on capitol hill. good morning, julia. what can we expect from tuesday? >> that's right, katie. tuesday's hearing will feature the extremist ties to president trump and his associates. as you mentioned, the oath keepers and the proud boys who allegedly led the assault on the capitol, on january 6th, committee members are hoping to tie trump's associates directly to those white nationalist groups and their actions. they hope to provide evidence that that. we saw a little bit of us in the last hearing featuring surprise witness cassidy hutchison. take a listen. >> the proud boys organization as vance on january 6th. although miss hutchison has no detailed knowledge of any planning involving the proud
boys for january six, she did know this. >> i recall here in the word oath keepers and hearing the word proud boys closer to the planning of the january six rally wind julianna would be around. >> the leader of the oath keepers, stewart rhodes, said to his attorneys that he wants to testify live at that hearing but under a set as pacific conditions, including appearing in person instead of from his jail cell where he has been held on seditious conspiracy charges. the committee has declined to comment on that offer. tuesday's hearing will also note how trump's pressure merges with the physical, violence, that his supporters carried out at the capitol on january six according to congresswoman stephanie murphy who will be leading a large part of the hearing. another thing to watch out for this week's potential clips
from passive -- testimony on friday. the former white house counsel providing key evidence from the committee. the spokesman are issuing rare statement to msnbc news overnight saying that so baloney did come from a lot, cooperate a lot, of cassidy hutchinson's testimony. he she provided information demonstrating donald trump supreme dereliction of duty. lots to keep an eye on as we head into tuesday's hearing. katie. >> thanks to julia gesture live on capitol hill. the other x-factor that new documentary that the clues never before seen footage from january 6th and, interviews with trump and his family. it just premiered a few hours ago. i'm going to dive into the highlights of the documentary, and what we should be looking for today's hearing with the guardian's hugo lowell. this is coming up. now, to the fight for abortion rights. thousands taking to the streets
yesterday to pressure president biden to do more to protect a woman's right to choose. the protests are coming one day after biden signed an executive order directing his health department to expand access to abortion medication and emergency contraception. some protesters say that's just not enough. the white house, however, is defending its action and says, it's up to congress now to codify abortion rights. msnbc news correspondent, moral barrett, has more. >> protests across the country from chicago to new york. the biggest was in washington d.c.. >> who history? our streets. >> while their anger was directed at the supreme court ruling, the goal was the presidents chair of president biden. some even briefly tied themselves to the white house fence. >> you can't make us procreate. >> when we have going on as a massive human rights violation and he is not responding to that level. >> protesters are pushing the president to do more to protect
abortion rights. >> do your job. >> i just don't feel like things that have been occurring are really demonstrated of of what the mass of the american people what. >> this is not acceptable, by any means. these people need to be held accountable. they need to do their jobs. >> the demonstration, just 24 hours after biden signed an executive order to protect some abortion rights. >> i'm asking the justice department, that much like they did with the civil rights era, to do something, do everything in their power, to protect these women seeking to protect their rights. >> -- this involves fda approved medication for abortion. this also protects contraception, and patient privacy will women seek a reproductive medical services. for some of the left, it's not enough. one abortion rights leader is calling for public health emergency declaration. >> it's definitely not off the table. it also doesn't release a significant amount of legal
authority. >> this is ten states now have abortion bans in place after a judge in louisiana lifted a temporary block. as more states have trigger loss that the take effect this summer. look >> all right, thanks to maura barrett for that report. now we turn overseas to the turmoil in sri lanka. the president is saying he will resign after an estimated 100,000 protesters took to the streets, stormed his official residence on saturday. after breaching the property, some proceeded to use his gym and pool. it's the culmination of months of mostly peaceful protests over economic mismanagement. this is plunge the country into crisis. millions are struggling to buy food, medicine and, fuel as a result. stay with them is msnbc as we cover the developments. now to highland park, illinois. the community is still reeling from the fourth of july mass shooting.
hundreds gathered saturday to rally for gun control, and to show support for the victims and the survivors of the tragedy. a group of suburban parents are now taking their message to washington, d.c.. the march planned for july 13th. they say they won't just one thing done, a ban on assault weapons. amazon reporter is live in highland park, just across the street for monday's massacre began. liz. >> katie, good morning. these streets along the pro rage route are opening up for the first time since a lone government climb to fire escape on the building behind me, shot from that rooftop, murdering seven people, leaving a toddler without parents. an eight-year-old paralyzed. this community is forever changed. now trying to take steps to move forward. that painful process, this town's leaders are encouraging residents to come out and visit businesses today, it's a lot of shop nearby is going to be giving up free ice cream to kids. it certainly will be a long
road ahead. this is just one step towards normal. meanwhile residents are trying to turn the pain into purpose, pushing for gun reform, pushing for change. hundreds are gathering at a rally, a community rally, last night. one woman, one of the organizers of that rally, started match for our lives chapter here. almost exactly one month ago led a protest in response to the horrific shootings and move all day in buffalo and ended that protests here, only to have blood spilled in her backyard on this pavements just a few weeks later. she is now demanding change. we spoke with another organize their, moms demand action. karen flee glare who had this to say. >> i cannot stand that people are getting harmed by something that's preventable. that they have to get up the next day and just live with it. that we all have to live with a, but especially people who are
directly harmed by this. this makes me so angry. i can't, we are not free when that is how we live. >> a petition to ban assault rifles, and here in illinois, has surpassed many signatures. this is taking a push to washington call in the organization march 4th. they're raising more than $50,000 for residents to go to d.c. to demand federal change. assault weapon ban and federal background checks. residents here are joined by other, is this will take place on wednesday the 13th. one of the organizers says that president biden's act of safe for communities asked is a step forward but it's just not enough. katie. >> all right, thanks to liz. new relief at the pump this morning. gas prices are going down. after reaching a record high of over $5 a gallon, the national average for a gallon of gas is seen its biggest weekly drop in
two years. some areas, the cost is even going below $4 a gallon. hurricane season could drive up the demand for fuel. priscilla thompson explains how low prices could go, and for how long. >> it's an early summer sign of relief. more than a dozen states are scenes oscillations with prices below $4 a gallon. >> thank you. >> mafia lead manages a star stock station in houston, texas. >> what did it feel like to change that number from before to a three? >> it actually felt great. when i was doing it, people were hall gain. they were waving at me. >> the national average is still hey at just $4.69 a gallon. that's down more than ten cents from just a week ago. states in the midwest and south are seen the biggest drop. the lower prices, a welcome surprise for those hitting the road in houston. >> i was treated pizza delivery,
i saw three 89, i said, i'm going here. i called my mom i was like, you have to come over here and get gas because it's really cheap right now. >> i've been meaning to get gas for a little bit but i've been rocking it as far as it could for a little bit. >> what does the price drop mean for most wallets? it's now above four bucks less to philip your take than it was around a month ago. >> why is this happening? >> there's an economic slowdown. it will likely slow down oil consumption, and sent oil prices lower. >> the zelenskyy declined to. >> what is this mean in the larger context of the economy? >> many of the goods you buy the store, groceries, hardware store, many things are -- if the price of diesel is also helping to essentially pay less for those goods down the road. >> many are grateful for the savings and hoping for more. >> i mean if they can make it $2, that be great. >> all right, thanks to priscilla thompson for that report. as we mentioned, a crew of
british filmmakers got a front row seat to the stop the steal saga. they are behind the scenes footage of the trump family in the days leading up to the insurrection has been in the hands of the 16 investigators. now we get to see it to. the revelations in, how the committee could use them, coming up next. a little later in the hour -- >> people also seem to think that in society that there are certain people who are immune for prosecution if you are a celebrity, if you are a high ranking public official. lady justice is actually blind. >> fulton county district is not playing around. how a georgia investigation into election interference could be trump's biggest criminal vulnerability. biggest
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unprecedented, about the trump family was released just a few hours ago. hold her had unique access to donald trump, his children, and vice president mike pence during the final days of the trump presidency. this is including before and after january 6th. here's what donald trump had to say about that day. >> we talked for a minute about january 6th? >> yeah. well it was a sad day but it was a day where there was great anger in our country. the people went to washington primarily because they were angry with an election that they thought was right. a very small portion, as you know, went down to the capitol, and then a very small portion of them went in. i will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of what happened in the election because they're smart and they see. they saw what happened. i believe that that was a big part of what happened on
january six. >> it's important to point out here, trump's characterization of the quote, very small crowd at the capitol on the sixth, it is not true. here's what trump children have to say about the six. >> he said before that you didn't to talk about the capitol, should we move on? >> yeah let's get the sixth. >> a lot of nothing to say, apparently. holders documentary earned him to subpoenas. one from the january six committee, at one from the fulton county da looking into trump's efforts to overturn the election results in georgia. here to dive into the documentary, as well as the january six hearing coming up on tuesday's congressional reporter for the guardian, hugo lowell. hugo, good morning. thank you for being here. the january six committee, we know also has access to
outtakes from the documentary. now your reporting that they could soon have new named witness. well can you tell us about this breaking news? >> yeah, so breaking it overnight, steve bannon and trump's former strategists has opened discussions with the second committee about testifying and that investigation. this comes after a former president sent a letter to steve bannon and his lawyer saying that he would waive executive privilege for bannon if he could reach it accommodations with the select committee about testifying. in response to that, robert costello, who is now no longer on the team, but was around apparently to send this letter to this committee said, well, let's now open to discussion about the time and place for bannon to come in and appear before the committee. this is something i believe is really significant. at the selectivity's been trying to get ben's testimony from the very outset, by the very start of the investigation last year. you know, he's talked about
some things that he could talk about in the war room he was involved in. he could talk about how he helped overturn, or try to overturn the election. he could talk about how he was instrumental in focusing on the congressional certification on january six as the touch points, and the final opportunity for trump to have to try to overturn the election. of course this is the same week in which he's been held in contempt for congress for not applying the original subpoena to his testimony. >> this news has not been independently affirmed yet, but let's dive a little deeper into this news. bannon is one of the only people is been prosecuted from the doj so far for criminal content, as you just mentioned, for his failure to comply to appear, testify, and provide documents. he supposed to go to trial pretty soon on that criminal contempt case. if bannon reaches an agreement with the committee, can we reasonably anticipate that he is showing up, or is there still a possibility he can revoke his self incrimination?
>> it's a very good question. we think based on the discussions that have been happening and bannon world, he probably will talk to the committee to some extent. he won't just be going into assert his fifth. the point where the contempt is interesting, in light of whether he can cure his contempt by going and this is a criminal case, a civil case you can't cure that contempt. it might have the effect that when they go to trial, they can make two points. first of all, they can say, look, trump is now saying we're going to -- and they're going to assert the privilege all along in the first place. therefore he couldn't testify originally, he couldn't comply with that subpoena. that's an interesting and strong defense, i think. the second point, of course, says that he can't say, now that i've gone in a testified, or are started opening discussions about testifying, that opens up the possibility to try to convince a jury, well, this is all about him not testifying. it's just going to testify so maybe the penalty for that
should be less. >> he got, let's be clear, the claim by bannon for executive privilege was always a very dubious one seen how he was a private citizen whenever they transpired at 16. i would not devalued opportunity to get information from him with this alleged waiver of executive privilege by donald trump. hugo, just to kind of cooperate all of that. as you've actually seen the letters from donald trump, with a letter from donald trump in this case waiving executive privilege for steve bannon? >> yeah, so there's a letter we for viewed dated tonight ninth. that saturday. it was said to cnn. it says, look, bed and you've been on -- itv favored sending you this letter saying that i'm waving executive privilege if you can reach an accommodation to testify. they also sent a subsequent letter, for more because ella's former attorney, writing to the select committee that bannon would now be interested in a time and place. the letters have gone out, they
went out about 2:00 in the morning. i believe sunday morning after that letter came through from trump. >> this morning actually. robert, kissed ella, he's the former lawyer because he may have to testify himself about what he knows. let's switch gears, hugo, and look at this documentary. unprecedented. i know you've had an opportunity to view. at another interesting moment in that documentary came when vice president mike pence got an email, in the middle of an interview, let's take a quick watch and listen. >> you 7:48. >> that's it i would say. the house members got it awhile back. yeah yeah, excellent. tell him to pay me off a hard
copy. i'm always hopeful about america. i always believe that america's best days are yet to come. i still believe that. >> hugo, the former vice president and also declined to talk about january six. how do you react to that specific moment? especially as it appears that mike pence is getting ready to prepare for his own presidential run company up, possibly against donald trump. >> i mean, we can see, and we've always know, that pence had such an insight into what was happening in the days leading up to january six, and then of course you have great insight into how the administration was reacting in realtime as the 25th resolution was circulated. we're talking about removing the former president over the events that the capitol attack. the fact that he hasn't testified is, you know, just extraordinary. we had the white house counsel testify, we have steve bannon
testify. the idea that mike pence can testify is just kind of astounding when he played such a large role in those post january six days, when the country was trying to find some kind of direction or trump was nowhere to be found. >> hugo, quickly before have to let you go, we do the tuesday hearing coming up. we know this will focus on the groups like proud boys and oath keepers. what can you tell us about what we can expect to see in terms of the connecting up the dots between the white house and donald trump, and those extremist groups? >> yeah, according to my reporting the hearings are going to be split up into two. we have jamie raskin talking about how trump galvanized his supporters to come to d.c. on the sixth, and how their connections between the extremist groups that stormed the capitol, and the people close to the former president, that's how they're going to look into the former president. specifically, they're going to focus on trump's tweet on the 19th of december 2020 when he tweets, there's going to be a wild protest on the sex.
be there. the committee is going to try to show that starting on that tweet, and leading, on all the pieces of the puzzle starts coming into view. you have the stop the steal activists trying to apply for permits to hold rallies both on the east front of the capitol. the military group, according to their text messages and signal chat, how they started mobilizing. how they started preparing and. the second part of the hearing is also going to feature stephanie murphy, he will talk about security at the capitol. that's going to be the focus for tuesday. >> all right, thanks. as always to the guardians he will lowell and for that breaking news regarding sleep in. we appreciate you being here, thanks hugo. >> coming up, one of the odds that two of trump's biggest enemies would get slapped with the same rare irs audit? while the numbers have been crunched and it is miniscule. it's all raising some serious abuse of power questions. a break it all down with former
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1971, president richard nixon lifted off his criteria for the next commissioner of the iris. he's telling his chief of staff, i want to be sure he is a ruthless s.o.b.. that he will do what he's told, that every income tax return, i want to see. i will see that he will go after our enemies and not go after our friends. >> thankfully, the man nixon chose to leave the era as refused to go along with nixon's directive. this morning, there are questions about whether the current irs commissioner has the same integrity. charles reddick, he was appointed by donald trump, is facing scrutiny after the new york times revealed that both former fbi director james colby
and his new deputy, andrew mccain, were targets up the rarest and most severe level of audits by the irs in 2017 and 2019 respectively. both men were at the top of trump's proverbial-less. >> director comey was very unpopular with most people. he's a showboat, he's a grandstander. why didn't colby come clean? why didn't mueller investigate comey? >> you accuse your adversaries of treason. who specifically are you accused scene of treason? >> you look at comey, if you look at mccain. >> the irs has been adamant that there is no political interference and its auditing process, but according to the times, the odds of both comey and mccabe facing the most invasive type of audit is one in 82 million. now the irs has asked the treasury department's inspector general to investigate. from all on all of this, we are joined by another trump target. former fbi counterintelligence
agent, peter strzok. peter, good morning. always a pleasure to have you here. andrew mccabe said that he only learned that jim comey was also be not adaptive being contacted by the time. so let's take a quick listen. >> i had no idea until the reporter from the times for judge to me. it was a bit of a shock i, have to tell you. it was discouraging, really. for me, this is the latest in what has been a long saga of being targeted by the former administration. >> peter, this audit story, may have become another chapter in this saga of how the trump administration worked to destroy america's faith and its institutions and to cripple our trust in the government? >> well katie, it's really sad that we have to be asking that question with a great deal of curiosity about whether or not a fact that happens. these are, as you pointed out, extraordinarily rare.
well there is a chance that at the director comey or mccabe may have been selected, the fact that both of them were really stands out in terms of it being an extraordinarily rare events. it sends it into the stratosphere in terms of rarity. there may well be legitimate x for nations as far fetched as it may seem. this could be that there are salaries went from private -- that metric or something. the ig at the treasury may be able to figure that out, and determine whether or not that was in fact the case. that's not the main issue. there are a lot of issues regardless of how they were selected, how it came to be that these two former director, or acting director, of the fbi were selected. no one and the irs sat and said to themselves, we are looking at not just one but two former directors of the fbi, people who were targeted by donald trump, and no one phrase that up as a concern. underneath all that is the fact that charles reddick was a trump appointee. he owns financial disclosure for trump properties in waikiki
where he earns between 100 and 200,000 a year. he didn't disclose this when he was nominated. he admitted to be in the person who turned down a congressional request to release trump's taxes that they could look at that for impropriety. at the end of the day, this really smacks it absolutely inappropriate behavior. on the one hand, the irs is acting from the top to shield donald trump from any sort of oversight. congressionally or otherwise. at the same time, they're going after these people who are at the top of trump's lust for retribution. >> well i don't think a poker c is a war that was rarely used during the trump administration, and you are right, the certain common denominators that that should've made some of the irs maybe stop a scratch their head. you mentioned a second ago, that charles reddick, the current irs commissioner, he was appointed by donald trump after he supported, in 2016, during that election, that trump not. the quote was that he should absolutely not release his tax
returns, and that was according to the washington post. let's also be clear, in his former life as a tax attorney, redding has, quote, defended a billionaire at the irs accused of hiding money in offshore accounts, and venture capitalists, the agency that used accounting to shelter assets. as well as the heirs of a millionaire defense contractors not to fend off inheritance taxes. why with this type of guy, number one, be appointed in the first place, but still be running the irs? i will note that interfere in this type of audit is a felony, it's a federal crime. >> well katie, that's a great question. i think all of us are sitting there as more and more information is coming out about trump's finances, with allegations of impropriety. there's a huge new york times investigation as they look at his real estate empire, they're playing games with the valuations. some of that is either alluded to or lead to the new york state criminal investigation about his tax issues. i think everybody in the united
states ought to be asking the question, with all these allegations about trump's financial impropriety, to the extent that they may or may not be criminal activity,. if he violated new york state tax law, then it stands to reason he very well might have violated federal fat tax law. if that is the case, who better than the iris to be looking at a criminal context at donald trump's financial dealings? as trump's that for decades and decades, he's been under audit, he's not releasing his taxes because of that. if the irs is being headed by someone who is such a staunch defender of trump, who is made statements that he should not release's taxes, how on earth can anyone have an expectation that with that leadership remaining, that there is a reasonable belief that the irs is going to go and give a good faith effort to dive into the behavior and, all the allegations of misconduct, on the behalf of trump? >> peter strzok, thank you for being here this morning. we're definitely going to keep
an eye on what happens with the and specter general's investigation at the iris. we appreciate you being here. coming up -- >> democrats spent so much time talking about what's the message is, what's the slogan, was the tweet. we spent very little time talking about how we'll be able to hear the message. the >> my conversation with former obama communications director, dan pfeiffer. this is about how democrats socket messaging, and how to fix it before the midterms. that's next. messaging, and how to messaging, and how to fix it this is the moment. for a brand new treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo - now fda approved respond to previous treatments. and cibinqo provides clearer skin and helps relieve itch. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb.
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suck at massive jane. can they fix that? it's a question many are asking just four months out from the mid term -- biden's numbers are low, and some are frustrated by his response to roe being overturned. now there's more mass shootings and inflation. friday, i'm a peacock show, i spoke with dan fight for who served as white house communications director during the obama administration. he's also the author of battle in the big lie, how fox, facebook, and maga media are destroying america. he tried to answer those questions. >> nobody messaging can stop the supreme court, whose majority have been reported -- from doing what they're doing. when you have to do, is you
can't just take a vote. i think it's important to tell people to go vote for a plan. how do we get there? how do we fix what's this dead? i think the president did this very specifically, it took a little time to get there, but he says give me good to senators, i will support getting rid of the filibuster to codify roe v. wade. we're gonna use executive actions, we're going to campaign and work in states where we can protect abortion access for people. have an actual plan to do it. i think this is a good -- you can say just go about, you had to say go about here is how it's going to affect you. here's the plan for how we undo this. even if the plan is going to take time, is going to take work, is going to be a plan. i was pleased to see the presidents remarks today. there are three things that democrats need to do in the messaging. the first is we need to focus on the issues that unite our race and divide the republicans. one of the primary ways we should do that is focusing on populace economics. here's something that aoc raise
taxes on corporations to pay for social spending, whatever it is. what did they agree on? asking -- having medication -- let's find the things we agree on. the second thing is the way in which republicans every year have papered over the differences in their party. this is how we're spending more time focusing on the republicans. not just donald trump, but to finding this radical right-wing faction in this country that is trying to seize power by any means necessary, including sanctioning political violence to do it. to ban books, ban abortion, ban game urge, we need to focus on defining who the republicans are. the third thing is, and i think this is the part that would lead me to write the book. what we say is incredibly important. democrats spent so much time talking about what the message, as was the slogan, what's the tweet. we spend very little time talking about how we're going to be able to hear the message. that is when we have to build
up the -- we have to focus on progressive media we, have to have our grassroots activists spread the message for us. we have to lift up our microphone to compete with fox news, the right-wing media outlets who are serving as a political weapon for the republican party. >> dan, quickly before had to let you go, i appreciate that you're on this assessment of the book where you said democrats bend 99% of their time worrying about what they should say, in only 1% about getting people to understand what they're saying. are democrats facing what i call paralysis through analysis, they're taking so much darn time to think it over before pulling the trigger. it doesn't seem like democrats are on the offense, throws on the defense. >> i think that is true for some democrats. i think we have a lot of people wrestling with a very challenging political environment that is sort of unprecedented. there are democrats out there who are aggressively on offense. -- stacey abrams in georgia, there are whole bunch of folks in the wake of the dobbs case, both
aoc and elizabeth warren, were off there on offense. i think there are models we can follow within our party to be more aggressive unless risk-averse in terms of getting the message out. east to be communicating 24/7 in this environment. i sometimes joke that in the speedy and firemen, if you are not the one serving dinner, you are dinner. you have to be out there to serve content. more speaking, less thinking, is probably a good starting point for some of our democrats at least. >> dan pfeiffer, thank you for your time. coming up, of all the legal troubles facing donald trump, could his greatest risk come from georgia's investigation into policy supple election interference? we'll talk to a state lawmaker who testified before the fulton county grand jury, coming up next. the fulto it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash.
brings us more and more damning evidence against donald trump and his associates, trump's biggest worry could actually be a few hundred miles south of washington and, georgia. here is special grand jury is looking into possible election interference by trump's allies. last week, the fulton county da subpoenaed several trump associates. this is including senator lindsey graham, rudy giuliani, and lawyers john eastman and ellis. you'll remember eastman, he was a central figure in the plot to prop up fake electors in states
where trump lost. here's what's da fani willis is calling nbc news in an exclusive interview. >> i think that people thought that we came into this as some kind of game. this is not a game. at all. what i am doing is very serious, it's very important work. we're going to do our due diligence and making sure that we look at all aspects of the case. all you see is a prosecutor doing their due diligence. >> she went on to say that she would not rule out a subpoena for trump himself. the most damning evidence so far in this probe includes a tape recording of trump urging georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger to find 11,780 votes. that did not exist. a washington post analysis is pointing out that it may well be easier and certainly quicker to bring discreet state charges against trump than it would be to present the entire coup plot
in federal court months from now. joining me this morning's democratic georgia state senator, jim jordan, he testified before that special grand jury. senator, thanks again for being here, it's always a pleasure to have you. i have to ask you, several of us as legal analysts have been watching this fulton county investigation carefully. there's been a lot of fanfare, obviously with the 16 investigation, do you think this 14 county investigation could be the biggest concern at the stage for donald trump versus what's happening in other places like washington d.c.? >> well it should be. i think part of the reason is that when these witnesses are being called in, they're having to testify under oath. i also think because, you know, grandeur proceedings are sacred here. you're not supposed to know what the content is, no one really knows what has been testified to up to this point behind closed doors.
the key to provo -- you really don't know what's raffensperger has said versus another witness. if you go in there, and you testify under oath, you have to be incredibly worried that is really where you're going to get caught. at the j 6th level, they don't necessarily have criminal jurisdiction but bonnie will stop us. >> you yourself, as we mentioned, you testified before the special grand jury about the december 3rd 2020 georgia senate judiciary subcommittee hearing. rudy giuliani, another, as we're spreading conspiracy theories about voter fraud in georgia. did you liana commit a crime before your very eyes? >> in my opinion he did. obviously that's not necessarily from me. that's what's significant about the special grand jury proceeding, they are gathering all of the evidence.
they are pull in it altogether. they are trying to draw the line and see who was involved, what was said. what was done. what were the intentional acts that move this conspiracy forward. from my perspective, what we watched in that state senate hearing was really the steam that john eastman had put together. i call him the architect of anarchy. the scheme he put together was really the implementation of that scheme on the ground. >> senator lindsey graham and others have said, and we know that this is challenging this to -- from the fulton county da let. speak clear, are some of your fellow georgia lawmakers, the republican ones, that were implicated in this, some of them were subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury, they filed motions to squash -- as you want to say, there are lawmakers in georgia who have complied participated willingly because they didn't actually go along with this plot.
why are so many of these people refusing to cooperate at the station, under? >> you know, i think, i'd like to think that it isn't because people had something to hide, but look, they've gone to pretty significant lengths in terms of higher rain council. a very prominent criminal defense in town is basically representing their interests. they've posted a fairly broad reading of the georgia constitution saying they don't have to support the grand jury. this happened at the capitol, they are happy at that official capacity. that is not my reading at the constitution here in the state, and it's not my reading of the superior court judge who accidentally rule that if they are subpoenaed they have to appear. >> you were in that room in december, 2020 that we just mentioned when giuliani was pushing this disinformation about the election. now, you are running for
georgia attorney general? clearly, the big lie is still alive and running rampant in our country. what if anything can be done about stopping the big lie? >> i think you have to hold people accountable. look, an in january 4th, i sent our current attorney general a letter, asking to investigate and prosecute based on a transcript of the call that trump made to raffensperger. i mean, you know, and he has completely failed to act. actually, it took the fulton county district attorney to move on this. and people say that is the only way to dispel it. you have to bring the evidence into the light and show what was really going on. you have to hold people accountable so that it will not happen again. i mean, if we have elected officials who are not able to do their job, then maybe they don't need to be in those positions? >> georgia state senator jen jordan, appreciate you being here this morning, thank you so much.
but >> thank you. >> but and coming up next hour, the author of out of darkness, ashli hope perez joins ali velshi live for the latest installment of the velshi banned book club. watch velshi today at 8 am eastern on msnbc. today at 8 am eastern on msnbc teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something
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this morning. i will be back next saturday and sunday at 7 am eastern. you can also catch new episodes on the msnbc on peacock, every thursday and friday. do not forget to follow us on twitter, instagram, facebook and tiktok at katie phang show.com. velshi is next. >> today on velshi, the video and potentially evidence we have been waiting to see is finally here. the january 6th committee subpoenaed the never before seen documentary footage of donald trump, his family, his inner circle, filmed in the run up to the capitol riots. today, we have clips from the completed film. plus, in a post-roe landscaper states are actively encouraging bounty hunting, you may be surprised and disturbed to find out how vulnerable your digital data is and how many times it has already been used to prosecute women, with the outcomes of their pregnancies. and then, the fracturing