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tv   The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 17, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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everything that a black woman did -- someone wasn't coming to dim that light or blow that out. i wish for someone fanning our flames. >> you can watch the culture is sunday at 10:00 pm eastern on msnbc. the 11th hour starts now. >> good evening once again, i'm stephanie ruhle. tonight, we are at the end of a dramatic week in the january 6th investigation and on the verge of another week of potentially explosive hearings. we are going to get into all of that now. but i want you to stick around for something special a little later in the hour, something we don't think you will see anywhere else tonight. but first, let's talk about these hearings. the select committee investigating the capitol riot hold its next public hearing tuesday at 1:00 pm eastern. it will focus on former president trump's efforts to push key officials in several states to change their 2020 election results.
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georgia's republican secretary of state, brad raffensperger, and his deputy gabriel sterling are both expected to testify. >> we've all heard the infamous phone call where then president trump was trying to force raffensperger to find votes, essentially, just make stuff up so he could become the president again. but we will go through a variety of issues that we think will be revealing. not everything has been out in the public so far. >> we also know the justice department is paying close attention to the house investigation. today, the committee said, it's cooperating with the doj request for transcripts of the interviews with witnesses. the department made its first request back in april. but the panel wanted to wait until its investigation was over. on wednesday, doj ramped up the pressure with a letter warning that the delay was holding up criminal cases tied to the insurrection. the committee spent the past
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week tying trump and his team's actions to that very attack. on monday, in his testimony about trump ignoring advisers who told him over and over that he lost the election. yesterday, how he and his lawyer, john eastman, tried to push mike pence to block certification of the vote. today, trump fired back during a speech in nashville, tennessee, at the rally against the hearings, he came pretty darn close to flat out admitting that he had pressured pence. and then he went after him again. >> one guy got up and said that he heard me calling mike pence a wimp. now, honestly, on the president of the united states. i'm sitting -- i think they, said at my desk, he's a wimp. how many people listen to me? it's like, i don't even know who these people are. but i never called mike pence a wimp. i never called him a wimp. mike pence had a chance to be great. he had a chance to be, frankly,
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historic. mike pence had absolutely no choice but to be a human conveyor belt. mike did not have the courage to act. >> what mike pence did was follow the law. as for pence himself, he has been talking to the wall street journal. he says he has not spoken to trump in about a year and he is not interested in revisiting the 2020 election. he also told the paper he will make a decision about a presidential run for himself in early 2023. there's also news about another former trump official targeted by the 1/6 committee, former trade advisor, peter navarro. you remember him. trump found him from an amazon search. he pleaded not guilty today to contempt of congress after defying a committee subpoena. will face a jury in november. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel tonight -- jelani cobb joins us, he's dean of the columbia journalism school and also a staff writer
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for the new yorker and an msnbc news political contributor. and harry litman joins us, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general and our dear friend professor eddie glaude, chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university and msnbc contributor, who's brand-new podcast, history is us, an audio documentary that looks at our past who try to make sense of the present and future through the lens of race and history. we've got an all-star lineup on this friday night. mr. litman, i turn to you first. these hearings were major, what was your biggest take away? >> i guess two things. with both the big lie and the hang mike pence, we had seen it in broad strokes but in vivid detail that made clear that, in each case, both on the facts of the big lie and a legal position underpinning the hang mike pence, it wasn't farfetched, a sort of 2% thing. there was nothing --
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zero, zip -- there never was. so, it was completely out of whole cloth. it was brazen and ruthless. that's point 1. point 2 is, in both these cases -- and i think we are going to see two more next week -- we came pretty close. there were alternate universes where mike pence is torn limb from limb, that's when a confidential informant has now told a department of justice. if he had turned left instead of right it could have been the most wrenching scene in democratic history. and the big lie itself, and you are seeing the gallows here. so, it's just a close scrape, which we might have known about in the abstract. but hearing it in vivid detail was really sort of blood draining to me. >> eddie, in weeks leading up to the hearings, we kept hearing, people aren't going to care, this thing is hyper-partisan. but then the hearing started. and then they got huge viewership.
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and the witnesses, almost all of them were either trump appointees, employees or career, highly respected republicans. do you think the content is getting through? >> i actually do, stephanie. and it has everything to do with the overarching narrative that the 1/6 committee is putting forward. they are connecting dots. there is the drama of the testimony, as it were, of the witnesses. and i think the seriousness of what january 6th represented, the scale of the threat is coming into view, not only did we hear about the proud boys, informant talking about quartering mike pence, mike pence refusing to get into the car with the secret service. but we saw that trump knew that he was lying. that trump knew what he was doing was illegal, and he didn't give a damn, as i've said before. he didn't care. he didn't care enough that he
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would throw bodies under the bus in the name of his pursuit of power. so, i think the drama of it all is important and has grabbed the attention of many americans who have not settled on sides but are really trying to find the truth. >> okay, those are americans who haven't settled on sides. those are independents. but let's talk about gop voters, jelani. because there are some that are calling this impeachment three. you saw that clip before, trump speaking in nashville. he basically came right up to the edge of admitting that they pressured pence. if that's the case, and people don't care, then does anything matter? right? it was the nba finals this week. and you could run the celtics or you could run the warriors. but at the end of the day, you want to make sure that the refs do their job. if we don't care about that, what does that say about america? >> well [inaudible] it says we are in jeopardy. this is one quick aside, i'm the incoming dean at columbia -- >> incoming. -- not quite there >> >> let's just take a moment to congratulate jelani on his new job. incoming dean -- september, here we come.
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[applause] incoming. the current dean is watching and going, what's the? >> exactly. but on a more serious note, though, the problem here, and this has been the problem from the gate, with all these elements of trumpism. it's that, there isn't any recognition of the import of self preservation. that means self preservation in the collective sense. if you -- >> you are going to have to speak english for me here. >> listen, if you take a wrecking ball to the edifice of democracy and you destroy peoples faith in free and fair elections, that rebounds against you, eventually. no one can trust anything. you get chaos and bedlam, and i've been waiting for people to make that recognition, that mob that runs into the halls of congress can go after anyone, that's a very unpredictable force, and no one seems to be aware. >> that's basically what
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michael luttig said, right, career republican, retired judge, was talking about preserving america, our democracy here. >> i think he's been an uncommon voice. and that's been the frame that you've heard, and you've heard that from cheney. you've heard that from kinzinger, you've heard this from the various elements of the republican party that have criticized trump and trumpism. but it's all been from the idea of self interest. that, look, this is not good for us in the long run. >> harry, the committee is now sending its interview transcripts over to the justice department. and i want to share what committee member zoe lofgren said about this today. >> we are going to talk about provide what's what's necessary for them. it makes me wonder, though, what have they've been doing over there? they have a much easier way to compel testimony under their subpoenas than we do under ours. >> you are our legal mind here, harry. can you explain that? why does the doj need a the
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committee to help them? isn't this what the department of justice does? >> maybe. look, first of all, they've had over 1000 and they have had a big head start -- the grand jury that's been sitting on officials has only been going for a couple of months. but it's more complicated to try to speak to suspects and targets of investigations. here's why doj wants these transcripts. it's for the -- the rubber has really hit the road, because it has to do with the proud boys prosecution that is about to go to trial. there are five defendants there. doj wants to be able to do two things -- make comparative evaluations and figure out who to put pressure on, to try to turn against the top dog. so, you need to know who are the top dogs so these long transcripts will help. and secondly, if they don't get them out, they are going to fall in the middle of trial. there could be exculpatory information there and it could really mess up the trial as it is going on. it's not a simple thing and so
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zoe i think knows this, you can't say please show up and start talking, to people who are going to be charged in a grand jury. but i have spoken at length to the committee. and that is, those transcripts are going to be very valuable for at least two reasons. again, it's happening now. these are cases they're putting together, having indicted on our set for trial in the couple of. months >> the new york times actually doing some excellent investigative reporting specifically on the proud boys and their involvement in the next insurrection. they released this video today. watch. >> the group was among hundreds of rioters who stormed the capitol. our analysis shows that, for the first time, how central they were for the capitol attack. again, they instigated critical breakthroughs around the capitol by repeating the same tactics. target an access point, rile up the crowd, join the violence and reassess.
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>> does this get the government closer to tying team trump to the insurrection? harry? >> the short answer, i think, is no. you still need to make the tie. you've got a lot of things they could indict trump for tomorrow, don't get me wrong. there is that consideration. but in terms of actually tying him to the seditious conspiracy, you still need that agreement. and we still need someone that he has agreed with. it does show, however, the proud boys were making plans and it wasn't just spontaneous, as of january 6th. and enrique terry, oh in fact, the head guy wasn't even there and he's been indicted for seditious conspiracy. so, we know that plans were going on. and we do know generally, if plans were going on since november, trump was generally all over them. but the specific agreement to have conspiracy, i think we are going to need doj to state set
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up. if the committee had, that we would know that already. >> and a quick reminder, in a presidential debate, when former president trump was asked what is his message to the proud boys, what did he say? stand by and stand back. eddie -- professor eddie -- give us a history lesson. because today is the 50th anniversary of the watergate break in, which was obviously a test of our nation. but back then there is not any dread or a question over whether our democracy would survive. talk to us about how dangerous the point we are at right now is, half a century later. >> i think it has a lot to do with the fact that the institutions of our democracy seem to be on shaky ground. we have a gerrymandered house, we have a dysfunctional senate, we have a politicized court. we have an imperial presidency run amok. the fourth estate has been complicated by fox prop, by fox
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news and what it does and what it has done. we have hyper partisanship which has divided the country in very specific sorts of ways, such that you can't have a kind of deliberative public engaged in the democratic process. so, it seems like every element, beyond the corruption of particular elements, it seems as if every element of our democracy is teetering on a knife's edge. and it's the confluence of those factors on top of the corruption and grift of donald trump and his minions that seems to throw us in crisis. so watergate is like -- how can we put it -- it's like atari -- compared to xbox 363. for generations later. that's the difference in my view. and i just dated myself. i know xbox three 60 -- >> you sure did, as soon as you referenced you atari, you certainly did. jelani, people are talking about liz cheney. and her position here. she could lose her next race. and she said she's willing to
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do so. but i want to ask you from it for a minute about committee chairman bennie thompson. and this is personal for him. i want to share something he said, his opening statement in the first hearing. watch this. >> i'm from a part of the country where people justify the actions of slavery, the clue clocks clan and lynching. and i'm reminded of that dark history as i hear voices today try to justify the actions of the insurrectionists on january sixth, 2021. >> what kind of impact is the chairman having? >> you know, i mean, for people who understand this, that is a five alarm fire right there. for someone to say, that make that reference, and that's a state that ratified the 13th amendment that abolished slavery in 1995. he understands exactly how deeply entrenched and how
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disastrous these kinds of forces can be. and for that matter, when the forces of the retrograde, reactionary forces of those politics at the end of the civil war, were not prosecuted, and they came back to power a decade and some change later. and he understands that precedent. i think that's something we should all be very concerned about. >> there are people who understand this. and those who don't need to be reminded. i know about i'm out of time. but harry lippman cannot leave the show without having the opportunity to talk about ginni thomas, because i know he wants to, you clerked for the supreme court. the committee is now requesting to speak to supreme court justice clarence thomas's wife about her connection to all of this. explain to us what must be going on inside the supreme court, given this is happening? >> we know, this is happening, the leak has happened, the the total jets in the sharks, new court majority is happening,
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the complete mistrust is happening. the court is a train wreck right now, and it's sad for everyone who has been there. ginni thomas, i think, to date, when we heard about unseen stuff, we thought, well, what does this mean for clarence thomas? i think she's now distinguished herself. she's out front as a coconspirator, potentially, in her own right. she says she's going to come to the committee and cleared, up maybe she will, and she's a got a lot that you can tell them about, for instance, eastman and the like. but this court is really roiled, as i think it hasn't been for at least about 80 years, and of course, the big showdown is coming, in two weeks. what is gonna happen to that leaked draft in the mississippi case? how will it end up? will they try to pitch it over? the court's daily, i think, getting shocks aftershocks, and it functions on trust and collegiality and it just seems blown to smithereens. >> trust and collegiality at
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the highest court in the land. harry lippman, and thank you for joining us. eddie, jelani, -- you're staying with us for something really special tonight. juneteenth, the older celebration since the end of slavery. but what is juneteenth mean and how should it be marked? and later, corporations want to cash in on the celebrations. but some of them are getting it very, very wrong. the special edition of the 11th hour just getting underway on a friday night. friday night
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juneteenth and perspective of what we are fighting for right now, it's to preserve one union that would be able to protect all citizens and i think that is what all americans can celebrate juneteenth. >> one year after signing the bill making juneteenth a national holiday, biden released a proclamation today to commemorate the day and remind us of its history. on june 19th, 1865, over two years after president lincoln declared all enslaved persons free, major general gordon granger and union army troops marched to galveston, texas, to enforce the emancipation proclamation, and free the last enslaved black americans in texas. let's discuss. jelani and eddie, and we welcome senior correspondent, and msnbc contributor, janell ross. a senior correspondent at time and an msnbc contributor. professor, i want to do this
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tonight, because i want to get smarter about it. oftentimes, people that look and sound like me, say juneteenth, i know it's important. but what is it? and some times, people are afraid to ask, where they say it's a black thing. explain it. >> well, i think juneteenth represents two things at once,, it gives us the complicated history of freedom in the country. as you rightly note, these are formerly enslaved people in texas, in galveston, texas, to find out that they are free tears late. they found out they free just a few months after robert e. lee surrenders at appomattox, a few months before the ratification of the 13th amendment. and so we get a sense that freedom is not an end. it's a practice. we can talk a bit more about that. even with the emancipation proclamation of 1863, even with the end of slavery, we still don't get, in some fully articulated, way our notion of freedom. we are still fighting for that
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freedom. that's one sense of juneteenth. the other sense, stephanie, is that i want to emphasize the importance of resilience and the great in the face of recalcitrance. in the face of those forces denied freedom. here you have freedom, even though they have been denied their freedom, even though they have been subjected to brutal domination, still imagining themselves in the most expansive of terms, placing crowds above their babies heads, right? imagining themselves in terms other what their relationship of domination suggests they are. it's a story of resilience and great at the same time that it's a story of delayed freedom. so, i think the combination of those to offer us really important lessons for our current moment. >> janelle, your family history takes us back to galveston. is this a celebration or a commemoration? >> i tend to think of it has both. in a very real way, as i
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understand it, the day that the union troops arrived, they sail into galveston harbor among the soldiers that are with granger that day, as a unit of color troops. , asone of the soldiers was actually a person who lincoln had played a role in emancipating when he was an infant in illinois. so, there are all kinds of unusual coincidences. and they make this pronouncement, and people immediately begin to celebrate. you can imagine that if someone told you, you are no longer a piece of property, that you would certainly have a lot to celebrate. people immediately begin to celebrate. but there also were immediate incidences of backlash, physical abuse -- if you take a look at what was written in the newspaper in the days immediately after grainger makes his announcement, by june 21st, the galveston newspaper is declaring how essential it
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is to make it clear to black people that they are not actually free. and that they will not, in fact, enjoy all of the rights and benefits of citizenship. they will not be the equals of white people and anything short of that will be ruinous for the country. of t>> jelani, critical race thy has become this enormous, distorted rallying cry to the far-right. we hear about teachers that are afraid to even acknowledge race. and now here we have juneteenth, a federal holiday. how do we teach this to our kids, given the political climate? it's not something that should divide us. juneteenth should not be divisive, it should be something that unites us. >> the only way we can teach this is directly and honestly. we have to forthrightly confront the tangled history of this country. if we can celebrate the 4th of july, in which the nation declared independence, while simultaneously holding people in slavery, then this cannot be
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politicized, to say that you recognize the belated, long delayed emancipation of people who never should have been enslaved in the first place. and so those two things are equally conjoined. if we are going to have an honest assessment of our history. but what we are talking about in these attacks on what's called critical race theory -- which is not actually critical race theory -- is the attempt to use history as nothing more than a resume, a litany of your best accomplishments. a litany of but the whole utilif history that we learn what we did wrong. i tell my students all the time, teams watch their game tape to understand what they got wrong, not what they got right. that's the same reason we pursue our understanding of history. e reason w pursue our understandi>> eddie,e seventh anniversary of the awful, heinous, horrible church shooting down in charleston. racially motivated. just a few weeks ago, another racially motivated mass shooting in buffalo, you know
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there has been so many more. and federal holidays like this be a way to help stop this type of targeted violence? or could it actually do the reverse and only get those on one side more fired up? >> well, i think, you know, it's hard for me to imagine federal holidays stopping political violence. this has been such a part of american political life and history. i can see how it can further inflame certain kinds of prejudices of course. one of the interesting things about juneteenth, you think about, june 19th, 1865, right? and you think about what follows. you think about the violence in memphis, the violence in new orleans. i mean, it's massacres, stephanie. the way in which the confederacy, in some ways, still fighting the war. you think about the violence that defines the collapse of radical reconstruction.
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by the 1890s, only 53,000 black folks have been killed, not just in these wild spectacles -- spectacle murders, or mass murders. but in the attack on poll workers, and in the attack on black folks who work for republican parties, in the coups that took place across the south. so, political violence has been as american as apple pie and buffalo grass. so, a holiday isn't going to stop it, but it could create an occasion for us to understand it. and perhaps, imagine ourselves differently. >> all right, then. please stay with us, jelani, janell, eddie. you give me the chills mr. glaude, you do every time. this day is about defending democracy. it's also why a lot of communities mark juneteenth with voter registration drives. why that's even more important this year than ever before. stick around, the 11th hour has a lot more to cover tonight.
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wave a multi racial coalition. i think the future of the country. then on january 6th we saw this violent attack on the capitol, driven by the big lie, and the not so subtle premise that certain voices in votes don't count. you don't get to determine the future of the country. and so we are at this inflection point. we've got to decide, are we the america of january 5th of the
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map of january 6th? >> and the answers that question as a whole lot to do with voting rights. since 2021, at least 18 different states have passed 34 restrictive voting laws. so here's a timely reminder. many community groups will be celebrating juneteenth this long weekend by signing people up to vote. jelani, janell and eddie, back with us. i want to ask you all that question. are we the america of january 5th or january 6th? janell? >> i think you can never not be what you have already expressed. we are unfortunately the america of january 6th. we will have to decide if we want to find our way back to something like january 5th. you can't unsee those people attacking the capitol, you not here the former president do everything possible to delegitimized the votes of people who happened to the people who live in communities that are primarily people of color, every single one of those cities. detroit, philadelphia, phoenix.
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there is no way to an know that or not to see that. that's our reality and we may be better off facing. that >> except there are people all across this country that have chosen to unsee, people who saw and experienced, it in the building, who then said, oh, it just another tourist day. so, who are? we >> we are both of these. this is always the battle of this country. are we the country that believes in juneteenth? are we the country that believes in the horrors that many made juneteenth necessary in the first place? we are both of those things. i think the struggle that senator warnock talks about is particularly heightened in georgia. we see the attempts to delegitimized voters in atlanta, in fulton county, where the overwhelming african american preponderance of voters were in georgia, and that election.
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and that goes back to the exact reasons why black people were given the vote at the end of the civil war in the first place. >> what rationale, eddie, is given, when these restrictive voting laws are put in place, in the last five years or so? publicly, why do they say they are doing it? >> it's a feature of the stop the steal claim around election fraud. the idea that our election process has been compromised by forces who aim to steal power. it's freudian projection in so many ways. and it's also an echo of the past, where we saw the disenfranchisement of black men -- remember black women didn't get the vote with the 15th amendment. but when we saw the disenfranchisement of black man at the collapse of radical reconstruction, some of the same margins were being made. some of the same arguments were
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being made. we need to understand voter suppression, voter nullification, all the things we are seeing now as an extension of january 6th. remember, judge luttig said there's an ongoing revolution within the constitutional crisis taking place now. part of that is, in fact, this attack, this assault on voting. so, we need to see it for what it is. it's part of this claim, stephanie, that this nation must remain a white nation in the vein of old europe. these people refuse to embrace the idea that ours is a multi racial democracy. they reject it out of hand. >> is there -- and bear with me for a moment, janell -- is there any -- and i'm not even saying middle ground. but is there any ground to give? when one gives the argument, why not have to show your i.d.? why not have to show your license when you go to vote? you have to show you license for all sorts of things. explain why that's not something should that should even be on the table. >> fundamentally -- >> because, you know, at dinner
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parties around the country, people will say that. >> it's certainly something i've heard many times before, in my travels as a reporter. fundamentally, the right to vote is far more important then you are right to get on a plane. at the end of the day, it truly is. your ability to vote and participate fully as a and as an equal citizen is really defines whether not we have a functional democracy or not, whether or not we really have the multi cultural democracy that our country is meant to be. this is who lives in the united states. anything short of, that any effort to fundamentally make it more and more difficult for people to participate begins to erode to the very idea of democracy. that is not what happens when the tsa tells you you cannot get on a plane. >> could i add something to that too? >> please. >> one other thing that is crucial to point out here is, it hasn't simply been the imposition of i.d. requirements -- >> no, no, of course. it's so much more than that. >> -- in addition, in places where
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people have imposed these i. d. requirements, they've also made it more difficult for people to get i. d.. >> explain this to us. >> removing the number of dmv, -- the number of dmv's in particular locales, where communities of color tend to be in the preponderance. so, you find that pattern again and again again. you can say, in theory, show your drivers license and then we are actually going to make it much more difficult to actually get your drivers license, and less likely you'll be able to vote. >> eddie, what does it say that texas, where we are going to see huge voter drives this weekend, that the place where juneteenth was born is the same state that has these huge, restrictive voting laws? >> it says how deeply tragic and flawed this experiment actually is. i think, going back to the quote of senator warnock, are we january 5th or january 6th, the echo of future dean cobb,
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that we are both -- it certainly is the case to me, to my mind, that that contradiction in texas suggests that there is a world that is desperately trying to -- an america that is desperately trying to come into being. and in an america that is clinging to life. and every time a new america is trying to come into existence, stephanie, the umbilical cord of white supremacy is being wrapped around the baby's neck, choking the life out of it. we have to be better midwives if a new america is to be born. because what we are experiencing now is an old, old and familiar haunt. and we have to acknowledge it as such. >> all right, and we will. our guests are sticking around a bit longer. when we come back, monday, as we've talked about is a federal holiday. so, some businesses are closed, while others are trying to capitalize. what more can be done to get juneteenth right? when the 11th hour continues --
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still with us, jelani, janelle and eddie, it's no surprise businesses are eager to cash in on juneteenth now that it's a national holiday. walmart, dollar general, party city, selling tablecloth, vinyl -- but some companies getting vague backlash for what they are doing. walmart for their juneteenth, the ice cream, and as a few
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other marketing missteps to. but here's the thing, guys. it's complicated. when you think about memorial day, for example. lots of people in this country, what do they associate memorial day with? sales to get really cheap outdoor furniture, going to a barbecue, and opening a pool. so how do you find the right lane here? >> yeah, i just think that ice cream is not gonna -- >> okay, that one is a really bad. >> ice cream and slavery just don't go together well. >> yes, yes. >> and so i think that one of the things with this is we have traditionally done the american thing, which is commercialized things. we go out and buy things, and we like feel better about ourselves. i think that martin luther king day, though, has been a good example. it has been the model -- it has been a day of service. you don't go out and buy things, you go out and commit yourself to doing something in your community. you are contributing your time and your talent in some way that helps someone else. and so, i think that's really a
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good model, but if that's a day of service, juneteenth should be our day of -- learning. that should be a day in which we grapple with the complicated thorny and often ugly history of this nation, in an effort to create a path toward a better future for ourselves. >> that's a great model. and i know it's not an excuse. and it shouldn't be the black communities responsibility. but what does one do, what do we, as a country, do, to make juneteenth a day that matters to all americans in a i weigh that mlk does? >> that's an excellent question. >> again, it's not the black community responsibility, it's our countries responsibility. >> i say this is a person who grew up in texas. while juneteenth has long been a recognized holiday in texas, my entire and officially recognized holiday -- almost my entire life, it there was a holiday that was primarily recognized and celebrated by black people. there have always been, all of
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my life, very large, public events at parks and so forth that are largely attended by black people. and that is something that has begun to change a bit in the last few years, in ways that, as i understand, as my relatives tell me, is very noticeable. my relatives telli think it is cery welcome. but there is some trepidation about what it means for such a sacred and important occasion to possibly be polluted with the sale of t-shirts and ice cream, right? so, i think i very much have to sanction jelani's idea of perhaps trying to give the holiday its own specific purpose. and really pushing hard in that direction, because the truth is, there are also martin luther king, there's martin luther king march. right? it's available. >> true. >> it's simply not widely acceptable -- >> let's be clear, there is merch for absolutely everything at this point. beyoncé selling invisible merch
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and people can't not -- i mean, that's my favorite, we know what we are buying of hers, we are buying it today. i would, by the way, all day, every day, and tomorrow. andy, what do you think? >> well, the commercialization is going to happen. people have barbecues and they bake red velvet cake. and folk are dancing and having -- they are celebrating. that has happened. i think we have to do is understand the moments on the celebratory calendar for the nation afford us an opportunity to tell a different story about the nation. even though, commercialization will happen. so, you know, some folks we'll be selling the a politan juneteenth ice cream, whatever the hell it is. there will still be other folks having this kind of conversation, having programming, right? in schools. or we can open up the african american museum, the smithsonian -- do something to have this kind of national conversation. and that's why it's important on the national calendar, because it's affords us an
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opportunity to tell a different story, even though commercializing processes and forces will be at work, as they always are. >> can i add one thing to 80s really salient point? >> don't say extending the school calendar, because kids are not going back to school -- they're definitely -- out. >> definitely not that. but i do think it's important that we look at juneteenth as a way to mark the moral maturation of the society. that we don't simply say that this is -- i mean, really, the people who are enslaved, are celebrating about their own fortunes, they're not being subjected to the same sort of brutality every day. but we should really invest in the idea of saying, this is the point at which our nation, reached a new milestone, and had rid ourselves of that troublesome millstone around our necks of slavery, which was a horror inflicted upon black
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people. it was a moral stain on the entire nation. we should celebrate that collectively. we can actually celebrate that collectively. >> i want to thank you all so much for doing this tonight. you made us -- with the show always, to get smarter and better. and tonight, i know the show did exactly that. janelle, jelani, professor, glaude, thank you all for staying up late with us. when we come back, she is considered the grandmother of this country's newest federal holiday. do not go anywhere. at 95 she is not done yet. when the 11th hour continues. we are not done either. not done either
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president biden used to sign juneteenth in to law. >> i need a deep breath for this one. the last thing before we go tonight, a long, long journey. one year ago, then 94 year old, hopefully, joined president biden as he made juneteenth a federal holiday. her lifetime of advocacy finally paid off. at 89, she started walking, two and a half miles a day, to mark the two and a half years that passed between the signing of the emancipation proclamation, and june 19th, 1865. the day that slaves in texas learned they had been freed. she started getting some attention for that, and was invited to had 2. 5 mile marches at juneteenth celebrations around the country. which led to her embarking on a 1400 mile journey on foot, from fort worth texas to, washington d. c. 2016. >> i felt there was something
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else to be done. >> we finished 2016, juneteenth, and she tells me that -- >> if a little tennis shoes walk from fort worth to washington, somebody will take notice. >> she wants to what to washington d.c.. >> and she sure did, -- the explained last year that gaining national recognition for juneteenth had an obsession of hers, saying, we celebrate the 4th of july, but we weren't free on the 4th of july in 1776. i want everyone to be aware that freedom is for everybody, not just for a few. and i'll be stressing that as long as i got a little breath left in me. and tomorrow, the grandmother of juneteenth will commemorate this new federal holiday, by going on, you guessed it, a nice walk. two and a half miles to her hometown of fort worth, texas. and on that very beautiful and
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very important note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of monday. this is the most terrifying crime scene i've ever seen. >> the suspect knew the victim. >> she just was the last person who should have ever died like that. >> she loved skiing, sailing, and her friends. >> she was extremely outgoing. >> a wonderful life that came to a tragic and on one warm summer night. >> i hear a very weird scream. >> her life had ended, but our story was just beginning. her killer hadn't been caught. >> i remember one detective saying to me, you


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