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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  January 22, 2022 2:00am-3:00am PST

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1800. fair to say, pam bozanich is not one of them. >> life in prison for those two is just fine. i hope they live a long, long life. life i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline." it was wrong. and i will never forgive myself. i am her closest friend. i mean, the worst kind of betrayal. i felt awful. how could i have done that to her? >> they were college sweethearts, married 13 years. then the mystery started. >> she asked, where is mom? i said, mom didn't come home last night. >> a drive to the mall and she
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vanished. >> we were scared to death. >> he was alone with three kids. >> it was probably the most difficult thing i've ever had to do. >> a grieving husband, a missing wife. turns out both of them had secret lives. >> the first thing i thought was these people are in a game. >> her secret? an online fantasy game with a mystery man who was very real. >> maybe she met up with somebody else to start a new life. >> his secret involved romance, too. >> it was eating me up alive. >> and the best friend, what was she hiding? >> my world was crumbling. >> love, betrayal, and maybe murder. >> i'm scared to death they're going to send me to jail. >> you can't take back what you've done. >> you never know what's going on next door. ♪♪ hello and welcome to "dateline." i'm natalie morales.
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to outsiders jenramsaran seemed like a perfect couple. jen was escaping for hours on end into a fantasy video game and remi, he was playing games of a different sort. then jen went missing and authorities had to sort fact from fiction. here's andrea canning with "secret lives." it was two weeks before christmas in 2012 when a sudden disappearance sent a chill through this sleepy town. >> she was going to buy her daughter a dress for her christmas concert. >> a young mother on a 60-mile journey through winding back country roads. when do you start to get a little worried? >> right around that time, once it started getting dark. >> well, he actually called me, asked if i had heard from her. and i said, no. >> i just had a bad feeling. i just didn't know. >> she hasn't been back, and i'm really freaked out.
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>> jennifer ramsaran, wife and mother of three, had vanished. >> a nightmare, a nightmare. >> and before the nightmare was over, secrets would come tumbling out. the kind that make you wonder if you ever really know anyone at all. did this kind of play out almost like a novel? >> it could have been a made-for-tv movie script. marriage affairs, sex, nudity, sexting, social media, misleading the police. it's got everything. >> where it all began would be a picture-perfect setting for a movie. nestled in the backwoods of upstate new york is a town so small it barely registered 2,000 people in the last census. it's called new berlin. here family is everything and neighbors still help neighbors. this is a great place to raise a family. >> absolutely.
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we found a beautiful home right next to chenango lake. >> remy and jen ramsaran had been married 13 years. they were college sweethearts. >> it's not every day you come across someone that has and wants the same exact thing that you do ten years down the road, five years down the road. >> what was it that you fell for the most about her? >> her personality. it was special. >> eileen sayles and her husband and daughters were close friends with the ramsaran family. eileen and jen met through girl scouts when eileen was a troop leader. >> she was so friendly. and you felt instantly comfortable with her. she was very welcoming. she had that personality. >> to eileen, and everyone who knew the couple, jen was remy's opposite. she was sweet and quiet. he was loud and boisterous. >> that's how i am. in fact, there are so many people that would walk up to my wife and go, i'm so sorry. how do you put up with him?
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>> has anyone ever described you as quirky or odd or goofball? >> absolutely, including jen, and probably anyone that's ever met me. >> remy is a real force. >> yes, and we knew when he walked in a room. at some points you're like, oh, here comes remy. you know? >> but their opposites attract relationship somehow just worked. remy made a good salary as an ibm project manager. and jen seemed happy being a stay-at-home mom to their two daughters and a son, says childhood friend theresa leiser. >> that's pretty much the biggest thing that she talked about was her kids. >> jen was a sunday school teacher, girl scout troop leader. >> yes. >> knitting instructor? >> yes. she was also very good at cooking. >> very martha stewart? >> yes, uh-huh. >> remy was focused on fitness, and he had big goals. >> if you want to attain anything in life, you have to have a plan. >> his plan was to run marathons. lots of them.
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>> 26 marathons, and i was sponsored. >> in one year? >> yeah. >> 26 marathons? >> yes, ma'am. >> remy wanted to get everyone in shape, including jen and her friend eileen. >> we started working out. and then he had mentioned running. >> so running became a family affair. eileen and remy would run the races and jen and the kids would cheer them on at the finish line. but as remy spent more time training for marathons, jen immersed herself in a competition of her own. she started playing an online game called kingdoms of camelot, where players from all over the world take on medieval roles and team up to wage battles together. >> she would show me, like, pictures of her castle and her kingdom that she was building on the phone. >> but on that december day in 2012, with christmas right around the corner, jen was focused on one thing, her daughter. >> that morning, the 11th, she
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was supposed to go to syracuse. >> the big city with a big shopping center and plenty of stores to choose from. jen planned to buy her daughter that new dress for her concert. but day turned to night. jen didn't return home. remy called her cell, sent text messages, heard nothing back. so he decided to call the police. >> i told them that my wife's a few hours late. but the reason why i'm worried is i haven't heard from her since about 11:00 when she left, which is highly unusual. >> tell me exactly what happened. >> my wife left this morning between 10:00 and 11:00, and she hasn't been back, and i'm really freaked out. >> what are the scenarios playing out in your head? >> car accident was the big one. i really thought some type of car accident. >> are you able to sleep at all? >> oh no, i was up all night. >> thing was, there were no reports of any car accidents in the area and no sightings of jen at the local hospitals. what had happened to jen ramsaran?
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coming up -- the clues begin piling up. >> i found my wife's iphone. i can see it from here. >> when "dateline" continues. >> when "dateline" continues don't pay for water. >> when "dateline" continues pay for clean. it's got to be tide.
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it had been a long night of waiting, wondering, and now it was morning. jen ramsaran had still not
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returned from that trip to the shopping mall. the kids were waking and asking. >> remy made breakfast and told his children not to worry. >> mom will be home by the time you get home from school. >> did you believe that? >> that was my home. >> i didn't know what to believe. >> he started calling everyone in their circle, had anyone heard from jen? his friend had an idea. >> after he had told me about jen missing, i was talking with some of the guys at work. a couple people asked me if they had tried the find my iphone app. so i called him, i was like, remy, did you try this? >> after driving the kids to school, remy headed straight to the new berlin police department. while talking with the police chief, remy tried the app.
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>> and lo and behold, it connected to her iphone. >> you figured out where her iphone was? >> yeah, right there at the police station with him. and it looked like the phone was moving, and i was freaking out. >> the spot was several miles outside new berlin, and they called in detective richard cobb with the chenango county sheriff's office. >> it did show a location of jennifer's phone on 23, at the intersection of moon hill road in the town of plymouth. >> officers headed there, looked around and found nothing. frustrated, remy decided to go look for himself. he got out of the car and opened the find my iphone app. >> and i'm hitting the play sound. play sound, and it's a high, shrieking loud sound. and i walked the bank, and i didn't hear anything yet, and then i crossed the street, and i started hearing it. and i looked, and then i saw it. i immediately called 911. i found my wife's iphone. i'm on moon hill road in south plymouth. i haven't touched it, i can see
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it from here. can you send someone out here? >> where exactly was it found? >> it was kind of right over in that area. it's a little more weedy now than it was then. but it was amongst some weeds, some shorter weeds, and some rocks. >> you must have felt like we have a key piece of evidence pretty quickly in this disappearance. >> you know, obviously it was key evidence. it was the first real physical clue that we had in the investigation. >> there was no sign of jen or her van, so how did the phone end up here? so far, this was just a missing persons case. it didn't necessarily mean there had been foul play. maybe jen herself ditched the phone. >> it certainly wasn't outside the realm of possibility that maybe she had decided to leave home for a time frame and meet up with somebody else. >> remy says it crossed his mind. maybe jen had simply left him. inside the house, he found
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something in the trash that seemed odd. >> q-tips of putting makeup on. jen had cut her hair, some additional length, and some of her older hair with the new color. >> he told the detective that in recent months, jen seemed to be changing. she spent more time chatting online, immersed in that fantasy world. and she had become strangely focused on her looks. >> she started putting on makeup. this is not what my wife normally looks like. >> but it seemed too farfetched. remy thought jen would never abandon her kids. >> she would never do that, not to the kids. no way. >> jen's best friend eileen agreed. to her, a discarded phone was a very bad sign. >> he said, i found her phone. and i said, oh my god. i couldn't believe it. my heart sunk. >> and the more detective cobb thought about it, the more it seemed like someone other than jen had ditched the cell phone. >> if she wanted to get away from her husband and her family for a day or two, and, you know,
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wanted no ties, she could've ditched the phone anywhere. >> or just turned her phone off. >> absolutely, yeah. >> another day passed. and then another. no jen. then on day five, a major discovery. it happened when jen's father was driving around town, looking for any sign of his daughter. >> 911. what's the address of your emergency? >> chenango sheriff? >> yes. >> tom renz, jennifer ramsaran's father. >> yeah. >> i found the van. >> it was jen's red van. it had been abandoned here in this apartment complex eight miles from her home. that must have been just an awful, awful discovery for her father. >> i'm sure it was. >> the van was empty. but inside there were spots of blood. are all your worst fears being realized? >> absolutely, yeah. devastated, absolutely devastated. shocked. >> did you start to fear at that point that jennifer is never coming home?
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>> whatever was going on here was probably not going to be a good outcome. there's two questions, really. where is jennifer? and who did something to her? >> and now eileen, jen's best friend, began thinking back to that game, the virtual kingdom that had jen so fascinated. did you think something sinister had happened? >> absolutely. you know, the first thing i thought was these people on the game. coming up -- had jen been meeting online? >> we swung into the mall, and she wanted to smell his cologne. >> fantasy or reality? jen ramsaran had a secret. >> this man online knows where she lives. >> when "dateline" continues. back there? -ah. -this is perfect. jackpot. variety pack. remember, it's a football game, not a play date.
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while remy ramsaran spent much of 2012 running marathons, his wife jen was immersed in the fantasy world of kingdoms of camelot. in the online game, jen, the stay-at-home mom, was transformed into a lady among lords. >> she just wanted to be on her game. and i would joke around about, jen, are you -- you know, come back to the real world. you know, pull yourself out of that game.
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>> from her iphone, jen chatted with other players from all over the world. it began as a way to pass the time, but became -- in remy's words -- an obsession. >> it started turning into an addiction, and -- she was on it quit a lot, close to eight hours a day, maybe more, even if the evenings. >> she was definitely sucked into it. >> she was checking out a little bit? >> very much so. >> eileen and her girls spent lots of time at the ramsaran house. she says she saw firsthand how her martha stewart-like friend was changing. >> she wasn't cooking. you know, they were ordering out every night. you know, i did their laundry one night because it was just so stacked up, the kids didn't have anything, and i said, do you want me to do your laundry? and she's like, sure. >> while on a recent shopping trip together, eileen says all jen could talk about were her gaming friends -- and there was one player in particular -- a british man named rob -- with whom she was clearly smitten. >> and she would joke around about, you know, things they would talk about. you know, 'cause in england it's different than it is here-- so different. and i think she liked that. >> eileen says jen confessed that the online friendship had
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turned flirtatious. she even knew what kind of cologne this rob from england wore. >> we swung into the mall, and she wanted to smell his cologne. and we did. we smelled his cologne. >> and it sounded to eileen like jen was ready to take the virtual romance with rob into the real world. >> rob knew where she lived and was thinking about relocating, coming up here. >> and he's in england? >> yeah. i said, what if he does come up here, and she kind of giggled. >> but now with jen missing, she felt she had no choice but to tell the police, and remy. >> when i told him, he was -- furious. i said, you know, this man online knows where she lives. >> did you feel the need to get in touch with this rob immediately? >> we worked to do that almost from the start. we sent him messages through the gaming app this
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is the chenango county sheriff's office. general ifrp's been reported missing. we're wondering if you had any contact with her. >> the detective wanted to interview this potential suspect, but he was an ocean away. so interpol arranged a meeting between rob and the british police. rob admitted he was married and he used the word intimate to describe his relationship with jen. >> well, jennifer had sent some sort of lingerie. and he had sent her, i believe, it was $150, that she never picked up. >> did he express what that money was for? >> i believe it was for her to buy herself as a gift. you know, this is early december, it's close to christmas time. >> and though it was clear rob and jen had talked about meeting in person, he insisted he had not been anywhere near new york when she disappeared. in fact, he said he'd been worried, too, wondering why jen hadn't been online for days. so as the detective worked to check out his story, remy was at home fuming. wondering if there was even more to jen's secret life online.
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do you think she was having an affair? >> i can almost guarantee it. in fact, that's what i believed happened on december 11th. she went to go meet someone. >> despite the blood found in her abandoned van, remy says he clung to hope that jen was still alive. he asked for help from a missing persons organization. they blanketed the area with fliers. remy says he couldn't take the not knowing anymore. you tombly enlisted a psychic to help you. >> what harm could it do? >> the psychic believed jen was still alive, so remy says he wanted to keep the search going. >> he was alone with three kids. i thought he was grasping at anything he could get to feel like maybe his wife was out there still. >> the new year didn't bring any new leads. the winter snow was piling up and underneath it all another secret, this one so explosive it could not stay hidden for long.
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some people are going to remember you as being the worst kind of friend to jen. >> yeah. you know, you can't take back what you've done. >> the revelation that would put jen's best friend at the very center of this case. coming up -- that's kind of a bombshell. >> yeah, it's a big bombshell, yes. >> and hidden in all that snow, the discovery everyone had been dreading. >> that's probably the most difficult thing i've ever had to do. >> what "dateline" continues. >> what "dateline" continues e my uncontrolled movements. some mental health meds can cause tardive dyskinesia, or td, and it's unlikely torove without treatment. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements in the face and body. it's the only treatment for td that's one pill, once-daily, with or without food. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements
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hello, i'm dara brown. here is what's happening. former associate of donald trump's one-time lawyer rudy giuliani was sentenced to prison, he attempted to damage trump's rivals but was sentenced for a year for violating finance campaign laws. and after launching a website to order free at-home covid test, the biden administration on friday opened a phone line for those who have
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difficulty accessing the internet. the phone line open seven days a week offers assistance in more than 150 languages. now back to "dateline." to "dat. jen ramsaran had been playing a game online with people all over the world. had one of them come to upstate new york looking for her? detective cobb was checking out the alibi of the brit jen had been flirting with online, the one she wanted to meet in person. >> anybody was a suspect in the beginning of the investigation. rob and anybody else that she may have had contact with. >> the detective asked u.s. immigration to run a check on rob's passport. the agency reported back -- rob had not entered the united states in 2012. so rob from the fantasy game was quickly cleared, and no longer a potential suspect. but still remy was convinced
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she'd met up with someone. >> i've told that to the police many times, many times. >> and do you think it was a direct link to these online games? >> absolutely. >> remy made no secret of how hurt and angry he was with jen. but instead of getting sympathy from his best friend jason, he got some words of wisdom. you see, jason knew about a secret, and it was a big one. >> why are you so mad at the possibility that she was having an affair? i was like, remy, you've been having an affair yourself. >> that's right. mad as he was about jen's online romance, he'd been cheating on her. and remy's affair had been going on right under jen's nose with the last person on earth she would ever expect. her best friend, eileen. >> in my heart and in my stomach i knew it was wrong. >> this is your wife's best friend. >> oh, yes. >> the girl scout troop leader. >> oh yes, very bad thing. >> the affair began nearly a year before jen disappeared. >> i asked her if i could kiss
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her, and i did, and we both felt extremely guilty. >> and did you kiss him back? >> i did. and then i left just like that. >> some people would have been -- >> shocked. >> shocked and said, wharp you doing? general is my best friend, why are you doing this? >> right. >> what was your gut telling you? >> my gut was telling me, no, you can't do this. it's wrong. it's so wrong. >> despite that, they had sex -- in jen and remy's house -- not long after that first kiss. did you feel any guilt consummating this relationship in the house that you share with your wife? >> i know i should say yes, but i didn't. jen and i had already grown apart. >> did you talk to jen about getting a divorce? >> yes. oh, yes, a handful of different times. >> eileen says all those marathon training sessions together drove them into each other's arms. and for eileen at least, it was
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more than just physical. even though she was married herself, she was falling in love with remy. >> we had a lot in common, you know, with the running. and the feelings for him took over and just filled my head. >> you seem a little out of remy's league. what was it about him that you were so attracted to? >> his personality was huge. i mean, always lifted you up, always. it made you feel important. >> but eileen was wracked with guilt. she was hiding the affair from her best friend and her husband. that's a lot of sneaking around. >> yeah. i couldn't take it. i couldn't -- it was too much. it got to be too much. >> did he say to you, i'm going to divorce jen? >> he said it. yeah. >> did that make you happy? >> no. no, because i knew it would hurt her. >> during the affair
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eileen and her husband separated, but then in november she broke it off with remy and moved back home. still, she and remy got together one last time the night before jen went missing. >> we did have sex. that in my -- as far as it goes. i did not want to further the relationship at that point. >> how did he handle that? >> you know, he -- he gets upset. you know, he wants what he wants. >> an affair with the best friend? just imagine how bad it would look when police found out. that's why, remy says, the morning after he realized jen was gone, he and eileen went to the police to let them know about the relationship. >> tell them right off the bat. that's the -- i don't have anything in my life to feel embarrassed about except that. >> i needed to help jen. i needed them to find her. and i would do anything to help them at that moment.
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>> that's kind of a bombshell. >> yeah, it's a big bombshell, yes. >> a bombshell the detective had to follow up on. they interviewed a very cooperative remy several times. >> i've only been with two women in the last 18 years. eileen and jen, that's it. >> he never asked for a lawyer and let investigators search their home. he even turned over the clothes he was wearing when jen disappeared. >> he was a suspect at that point. it was as much to rule him out as it was to rule him in at that point. >> and eileen, she was now under investigation, too. why was eileen a possible suspect? >> just because of her relationship. her involvement with jennifer and mr. ramsaran. generally, you would think a husband or a male might commit murder, but women can also. >> but until a body was found, investigators had no way of knowing how, when or even if jen had been murdered. that all changed on feb 26, 2013.
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two and a half months after jen went missing. >> the snow had started to melt, and settle enough that, you know, she -- part of her became exposed. >> she had no clothes on? >> right. she was found naked. >> jen's body was found in an embankment along an uninhabited stretch of road, about 20 miles from her home. two detectives knocked on remy's door and gave him the news. >> it is my wife? are you sure? that was heart-wrenching. heartwrenching. and i called all three kids into the master bedroom, and i told the kids, mommy's in heaven but she's always going to be with us. that's probably the most difficult thing i've ever had to do. >> it was awful. the grief, and i knew at this point, there's no telling her i'm sorry.
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>> what really frustrates me, jen's body was found just a little over three miles away from where that phone was. >> you feel the police should have looked harder? >> absolutely, even helicopters, something. >> and on the day jen's body was found, remy summoned the local media to his house and through tears spoke to the cameras. >> got to be strong for the kids. make sure they're ok, just like we have been and we'll figure it out. but by then people around the tiny town of new berlin had caught wind of remy's affair and some were starting to wonder if his tears were real. coming up -- from cheating spouse to chief suspect? >> what's the truth? what do you have in there? >> i have the truth. >> did you kill jen? >> when "dateline" continues. je? >> when "dateline" continues ♪♪
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and even when things go a bit wrong, we've got your back. here, things work the way you wish they would. and better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. my mental health was much better. my mind was in a good place. but my body was telling a different story. i felt all people saw were my uncontrolled movements. some mental health meds can cause tardive dyskinesia, or td, and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements in the face and body. it's the only treatment for td that's one pill, once-daily, with or without food.
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ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including sleepiness. don't drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ingrezza affects you. other serious side effects include potential heart rhythm problems and abnormal movements. it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about ingrezza, #1 prescribed for td. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ♪ ♪ before you go there, or fist bump there, or...oh! i can't wait to go there! or reunite there, ♪ ♪ start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today.
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the search for jen ramsaran had come to a bitter end. and there was her husband remy telling anyone who would listen, he wanted payback. >> i've always said, in order to get true closure, we got to find out what happened to jen. and i don't just want justice. i want vengeance. >> detective cobb could see remy was a big talker. >> he's the kind of guy that i think in his life, he's been able to talk himself through most every situation. >> yes, he'd come down to the police station to confess his affair, but now the detective felt like remy was trying to control the focus of the investigation. >> he was using social media,
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and news media to try to get his message out. >> what message was he trying to get out in the media? >> that jennifer had changed, and that she wasn't, you know, the mother, wife, housekeeper, cook that she used to be. >> try to deflect off of himself? is that what you believed? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. and put this on jennifer. >> jen's childhood friend, theresa , 700 miles away, noticed the same thing as she read remy's friend updates on facebook. >> he started saying things about jen, like you know, well, she wasn't really a mother for the past six months. she was -- she had -- disconnected herself from the family. >> he seems like a total over-sharer. >> yes. yes. over-shared everything. >> and theresa thought remy was flirting with people who were trying to find his wife, like that psychic he enlisted. they had some weird exchanges on facebook. >> and he said something about her putting on a bikini and going outside in the snow, and that that's what she should do.
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and i just -- i thought that was very strange. >> so the psychic -- >> putting on a bikini? >> -- should put on a bikini? >> yes. >> remy's close friend jason started to think it was creepy that remy seemed obsessed with jen's possible infidelity, even exaggerating it as time went on. >> he said that he had found naked pictures of her that she had sent to other people. and, i mean, there was times where he was trying to sell me that there was three or four people she was sending these to. >> but investigators found no proof shed been sexting with strangers so they were back to picking apart the story remy told them on tape about the day she went missing. >> she kissed me on the cheek. i was right here and she left. >> remy was sure that jen left to go shopping before 11:00 a.m. but when technicians analyzed her phone, they found that at the time he said jen was gone, the iphone was still connected to the home wi-fi, which to the detective meant jen was likely still in the house. this is a red flag for you that
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her phone is clearly at home when she's not supposed to be? >> it's hard for him to explain. >> and looking back, it seemed strange that it was remy, not the police, who was able to find that phone 20 feet below a bridge. >> i found my wife's iphone. >> what's more, when they examined the phone, it was in perfect condition. >> at the scene, there wasn't any damage. so to us that said that somebody had actually, you know, come down there and placed the phone. >> so where exactly was remy on december 11th? he said that after jen left, he went out for a run, ended up at the ymca. >> either i ran through the rite aid parking lot or i ran through in between and then -- >> to the y? >> yeah. >> okay. and then? >> around the church over there to the y. >> detective cobb pulled surveillance videos from the convenience stores and banks along that route. turns out remy wasn't on any of them. the only video he appeared on, is this one, where he stretches, before entering the y. >> so his -- his alibi of running this certain route appears to be false. >> we have all these things that
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are now taking the focus off, this could be anybody, and putting it, really, on mr. ramsaran. >> were they talking as though remy was a suspect? >> yeah, and i just said, no, that you know, i'm not believing that. >> remy could be controlling? >> yeah. >> but just in your eyes, not controlling enough where he would take his own wife's life? >> no. that never even crossed my mind. >> as for eileen, the detective was able to verify her alibi. she'd been working that morning. but she did meet remy at the y that afternoon. >> we still had the question, though, that eileen picked mr. ramsaran up from the ymca shortly after 1:00 that afternoon. eileen drove remy home, though both she and remy told the detective that she did not go inside the house. did you still think that maybe she was covering for remy, and that she knew all along what had happened? >> that was still a possibility. that she had some kind of guilty knowledge.
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>> they thought i wasn't giving them everything, even though i was. you know, if i had more i would've given it. i would've given anything to help. >> but one by one, the folks around town began to turn against remy and eileen. were you wearing a scarlet letter? >> absolutely. i felt awful. so it pushed me towards him. >> did you start to talk about being together permanently? >> uh-huh, and leaving, just getting out of here. >> it was now may 2013, three months after jen's body was found along the embankment at the side of the road. the autopsy report was back. jen's body had been outside too long to determine a cause of death. but the medical examiner declared it a homicide. >> i get a phone call. can you come on down? we have those medical results. we finally get to talk to and tell you exactly what happened. >> well, we wanted one more shot at interviewing mr. ramsaran.
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>> what's the truth? what do you have in there? i have the truth. >> the truth is you killed jen. [ bleep ] >> you had something to do with it. [ bleep ] >> i never -- >> you did. >> no, your alibi is bull -- and clearly, i don't know why you think you're on camera running past these places. you're not. i don't know why you cannot get that in your head, remy. the camera doesn't lie, the person does and you're the one lying about it. >> i'd like to leave. >> no, you're not leaving. i've already told you that. sit down, you're not leaving, you're under arrest. >> remy ramsaran was charged with second-degree murder, but it was a circumstantial case the prosecution would now have to sell to a jury. coming up -- >> he dumped the body, then he dumped the phone, and then he dumped the van. >> when "dateline" continues. vn >> when "dateline" continues covs to treat mental illness.
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unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable nationwide network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business: powering possibilities. welcome back to "dateline." i'm natalie morales. remy ran sur rand told police he didn't kill police but they weren't buying it. now he has to prove his innocence. here with the conclusion of "secret lives" is andrea canning. >> remy ramsaran was charged with his wife's murder. but after looking at all the evidence, investigators completely cleared his mistress eileen. >> i would never hurt her.
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remy had been in jail for more than a year when she spoke to him just before his trial. he was focused on what the prosecution didn't have. no murder weapon, no eyewitnesses, no evidence of violence in his marriage. is there no doubt in your mind is there no doubt in your mind that you will walk out of here a free man? >> i'm scared to my death that they're going to send me to jail or prison. but here's the thing, i have truth on my side. i did nothing wrong. i did nothing. i would never harm my wife. >> district attorney joseph mcbride told the jury a different story. >> so when december 11th rolled around, it was time for him to get rid of his wife. >> the prosecutor painted a picture of a man, so infatuated with his mistress, that he chose murder over divorce. he played jail house phone calls between remy and eileen. >> you know, i look at my ring finger every [ bleep ] day, and i just imagine your name right on there. you're a gift from god. you were meant for me, and i know i was meant for you, right? >> yeah. >> remy's best friend and
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confidant was called by the prosecution to testify about conversations they'd had about divorce. >> i mentioned that jen would end up getting the kids, and he was very confident that he would be the one to have the kids. and i kept telling him, i was like, i don't think that's exactly how it's going to play out. >> jennifer was going to get custody. and why is that important? that gives him another reason, another motive to kill his wife. >> the prosecution presented all the little bits and pieces from the investigation. jen's iphone that was found by the defendant himself, the alibi that could not be verified by video, and the timeline that didn't exactly hold up. >> in our theory of the case, he had actually killed his wife at home, cleaned up for a few hours. and then he dumped the body. then he dumped the phone, and then he dumped the van. and then he continued on that straight line to the ymca. >> the prosecutor brought the one-time potential suspect, rob from england, into the case. via skype, he told the jury he became alarmed that morning when, like a ghost, jen
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disappeared in the middle of a kingdoms of camelot game. >> why is that important? because she never, ever left the game before. she never, ever left without an explanation. >> the prosecution believed remy caught jen playing the game in bed and snapped. they found a spot of blood on the mattress and on the sweatshirt remy was wearing the day jen went missing, a stain that turned out to be blood. >> and the dna in that blood spot was also partially remy's, and it was partially jennifer's. and that was powerful. >> actually, not powerful at all, countered remy's defense attorney, gilberto garcia. >> the problem is that the evidence does not demonstrate that mr. ramsaran killed his wife. >> remy's attorney argued that all the prosecution had were theories, no real proof that remy murdered jen. he said even those surveillance tapes were worthless. one video was missing a date and timestamp. another had a partially obstructed view. >> and i argued to the jury, you can't see this person walking
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because there's still another 75 feet further that the camera doesn't see. >> the defense's entire case was just one witness, remy himself. >> everyone needs to know the truth. >> do you have a strategy? >> what strategy? tell the truth. there is no strategy. >> remy testified for two full days. it is a circumstantial case. >> wholly circumstantial. >> do you worry about motive and how the jury will feel about motive, the affair? >> people have affairs all the time, and they don't wind up killing their wives. but it's very weak if that's what they're going to claim. >> remy pointed out that he was always cooperative with the police. >> here's the thing, if i had done anything to my wife, would i have gone out and try and find her phone? would i try and help and answer every question to the police? oh, i should have lawyered up right off the bat. you have to remember, my life was absolutely fantastic.
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absolutely fantastic, not a care in the world. >> you were living, though, with a secret. >> okay. >> that isn't always fantastic. >> might be a secret, but in regards to jen and i splitting apart and whatever happened, it was always there. i mean, it's not, like, a bad thing. >> you had a plan? >> absolutely. >> did you have a plan to kill your wife? >> of course not. >> is this all about remy? remy wanted to have the life he wanted? >> whoa. that's where you're absolutely wrong. i had the perfect life. i had a wife, had a girlfriend. i have kids. i have everything anyone would want. the worst thing to have ever happened to me is jen go missing. absolutely worst thing. >> eileen, who had supported remy through the entire investigation, was now living in rewind. her doubts began while remy was in jail. >> just little things were starting to play in my head, and it scared me. >> eileen began thinking back to december 11th, the day jen
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disappeared, the day she gave remy a ride home from the y. she says it was out of character for remy to miss a chance to get her into bed. >> looking back, why didn't he invite me in? no one was home. jen was shopping. kids were at school. >> so she wondered, had he been cleaning up a murder scene? eileen went to court the day remy took the stand and listened. >> i knew he was lying. i could tell some of the things he was saying, i needed to hear how he was talking, how it was sounding coming out of his mouth. >> what do you think happened that day, when you run it through your mind? >> he knew i was gone. he knew i was back home. and he was angry. and i think jen had decided that, i'm moving on, too, and i
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think he just couldn't handle it. i just think he just snapped. >> eileen started to worry what would happen if remy was acquitted? he was sending her messages on facebook from court. >> he was on his lawyer's laptop, messaging me, telling me how much he loved me, and how could i give up on him. >> after three weeks of trial, the jurors got the case. they filed back into court just three hours later. >> with respect to count one of the indictments, charging the crime of murder in the second degree, how do you find the defendant, guilty or not guilty? >> we find the defendant guilty. >> he took her away from everyone. he took her away. she was just the nicest, caring person i think that i ever met. she was just -- she was nice to everyone. >> remy was sentenced to 25 years to life. and from behind bars he faced another charge -- bribery, offering a corrections officer
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$100,000 to help him escape. he pleaded guilty to the bribery charge. then, one more twist. two years after the murder trial, remy won an appeal, citing ineffective assistance from his attorney. his conviction was thrown out. but before he could be retried, a higher court reversed the decision. remy remains in prison. and eileen, a devoted mom, has decided to face her regrets, her mistakes, her deep sorrow, head on. do you wish you had never met him? >> yeah, i do. i feel like, honestly, things would be okay if i hadn't walked into their lives. >> you did something that was wrong in pretty much everybody's book. >> uh-huh. >> does it make you a bad person? >> it was wrong. absolutely.
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i'm not a bad person. and i will never forgive myself. i'm so very sorry. so very sorry. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thanks for watching. e morales. thanks for watching. ♪♪ welcome to the show. i'm zerlina maxwell. president biden campaigned on his ability to bridge the partisan divide and negotiate sweeping reforms, but the failure of democrats' voting rights push -- but with the failure of the democrats' voting rights push, the president seems to be seeing things a bit more clearly. as he embarks on his year two of presidency, one thing is for certain. the negotiator in chief isn't going t


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