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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  October 8, 2020 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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everything that he's been doing, this is just political analysis that a third grader could give you has offended women, offended suburban voters, has offended more educated voters, has offended independents that usually vote republican. that's why he's losing so badly right now and he seems absolutely incapable of turning it around and incapable of turning it around on the drug cocktail that he is on this morning. stolen from twitter, first place, kamala harris, second place the fly, third place, mike pence. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's thursday, october 8th. we start with breaking news this morning. first, we found out the presidential debate set for next thursday will not be held in person. and now it might not be held at all. this morning, less than one hour after the commission on
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presidential debates said the event would be held virtually in an attempt to protect people's help, the president went on cable news and said he's not having it. >> i heard the commission a little while ago changed the debate style and that's not acceptable to us. i'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate. that's not what debating is all about you sit behind a computer and do a debate. that's ridiculous. and then they cut you off whenever they want. >> remember, vp biden said he did not want to do the debate in person if the president was still sick. and while the president is apparently symptom-free, the president is obviously still recovering. what's more, at least 26 people connected to his white house or his campaign have now tested positive. carol lee is near the white house. mike memoli in salt lake city. he was in the room for last night's debate. president trump said this morning he won't be doing the debate if it's virtual. is that what the campaign and the white house are really saying?
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wouldn't logic say he needs this debate? >> yeah, that's what they're saying for now, steph, underscoring for now. they say that they were not informed of this decision. it was made unilaterally by the commission on presidential debates. the campaigns were subsequently told this is how this debate was going to be held. the president in his interview on fox business this morning saying he's not going to participate. he doesn't think that's how debates should be played out. and his allies, even before the president said that, were already sowing doubt about whether this would be fair, whether joe biden would be able to cheat. how would they guard against that. so creating a lot of skepticism around the idea to begin with. the president also saying he didn't like the idea he could be cut off. that was obviously an issue in the first debate, which didn't go as many had hoped. and just in terms of having a dialogue about the issues of the day. so for now, the president saying he's not going to debate, but next week, will he wind up
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actually following through with that given it's going to give up 66-plus million eyeballs, steph. that's a lot of people. that's an audience he needs. he says he'll instead do a rally but the backdrop is the president is still battling coronavirus. he said he was asked, kind of oddly whether he felt contagious and he said no. but that's just him saying right now he doesn't feel great. his -- he does feel great. his campaign is saying that he would have tested negatively a couple of times before this debate. but again, steph, given the way this white house has handled the president's testing positive for this, over the past week, it's hard for anyone to be able to rely on him saying, and his white house saying that he's fine and okay to go and participate in person for this debate. so for now, the president saying he'll take a pass, steph. >> i'm not a political strategist, but if the president opts to go with a rally, not a
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deba debate, i'm pretty sure people attending a rally are already voting for you. i appreciate the musical accompaniment to our conversation this morning. michael, vp pence, has he said anything about this announcement? >> well, the former vice president and his campaign are indicating they are full speed ahead. they intend to participate in this virtual debate as long as it is going to happen. we just got in a statement from the communications director. she says vice president biden looks forward to speaking directly to the american people and comparing his plan for bringing the country together and bringing back better. with donald trump's failed leadership on the coronavirus that's thrown the strong economy he inherited into the worst downturn since the great depression. i'm told by a biden campaign official they were not consulted ahead of time about the commission's decision. they were expecting to have conversations with the commission today about the format. there were real questions given the interruptions in cleveland
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last week about whether there needed to be format changes. this is also going to be a town hall format style debate. they spent most of the time dealing with preparations for last night's vice presidential debate. the plexiglass barriers that were an issue. they said they'll participate. and a point of comparison as we hear the president indicate he'll not participate. in 2008, john mccain suspended his campaign as the economy was in free-fall. he said both candidates need to be addressing that response to the economic downturn. he indicated he would not participate in that 1st debate. ultimately, both candidates were on the stage together. >> president trump said earlier that he thinks the polls are rigged. if you go out there and look at the boat parades, he has overwhelming support. i'd like to point out, when people buy a boat, they don't put a political flag on their boat. it's not a 50/50. you don't take your boat out on the water and show who you're voting for. trump supporters who decided to
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put flags on their boats, that's a new phenomenon. yes, there's a whole lot of trump flags but nobody ever put a candidate flag on their boat, not ever. michael, you were in the room last night. what was your takeaway from the debate? >> certainly it was a more civil debate compared to the exchanges we saw in cleveland. although there were some interceptions to be sure. the vice president often continuing to speak even as susan page, the moderator, tried to move on to the next subject or to get senator harris' response. we had a reminder of why the stakes were so high. the questions about succession. about whether the candidates for president might be able to serve their full terms and whether either candidate had conversations with their vice presidential running mates about that. both candidates side stepped that question, although senator harris used it as an opportunity to talk about her qualifications. the big exchanges and some of the toughest clashes were about what we expected about the president's handling of the coronavirus. let's take a listen to some of
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that. >> the difference here is president trump, and i trust the american people to make choices in the best interest of their health. we're about freedom and respecting the freedom of the american people. >> let's talk about respecting the american people. you respect the american people when you tell them the truth. >> and stephanie, of course a lot of americans are going to be talking about the answers to questions that were not given. the senator harris not answering the question that vice president pence really tried to press her on about whether she and the former vice president support expanding the supreme court. in that very same change, vice president pence not addressing the question of what should happen in the states if roe vs. wade were overturned. we'll be seeing if the candidates on the trail as they are both heading to arizona today are going to be asked about that and pressed on those questions. >> a lot of questions asked. a lot of talking. not that many questions answered. joining us to explain why all of this matters to you, ben white,
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chief economic correspondent for politico, brittany cunningham, part of president obama's 21st century policing task force and eli stokols. eli, the president thinks mike pence did so well last night. said he won the night huge. but this morning, the headline is trump refusing to participate in the next debate. he did a cable news interview for 54 minutes stealing all the morning headlines from his running mate. if mike pence did such a great job, why wouldn't he let him have the morning to run a victory lap on the news cycle? >> i guess the answer is narcissism. he prebutted the debate with a tape of him in the rose garden talking. the president swamps the news cycle with the threat basically to walk away from the second presidential debate and takes mike pence out of the headlines.
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donald trump can never not be the story. that's a problem with this campaign overall. it remains a referendum on the president because it's just -- it seems too difficult for someone with such deep narcissistic tendencies to be able to make anything, a presidential campaign,a a news cycle about anything but himself. >> they talked about money, jobs, the economy. ben, from an economic perspective, to me, this moment stood out the most. >> the american comeback is on the ballot with four more years of growth and opportunity. four more years of president donald trump. 2021 is -- >> thank you, vice president. >> -- the biggest economic year in the history of this country. >> 2021, being the biggest year in this country's economic
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history. what in the world is he talking about? two days ago fed chair jay powell said without more stimulus out of congress, we could face a grave economic future. and what happens next? the president pulls the talks on that stimulus. >> yeah, it's nonsensical to say we're set up for the best year in our history next year. that's more of a trumpian boast that pence now echoes. but, obviously, the economy is not doing terrific right now by any means. the recovery is slowing down. just this morning we got close to another million initial jobless claims. those numbers not going down very fast. a lack of stimulus clearly showing up in lower incomes, lower spending. and we'll have a good third quarter and trump will be able to boast about it. it will be coming from a low base and won't get us back to where we were. most forecasters are thinking 2% growth, maybe even that is optimistic if we don't get any more stimulus soon and more businesses close. the idea we're on the precipice
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of a gangbusters greatest economic year in history is based on absolutely nothing. >> i want to talk, ben, about what else vp pence said about the economy. he said that joe biden is going to raise taxes on all americans. that's absolutely false. >> no. >> he also made no mention of this phantom middle class tax cut that the president has been promising for the last four years and again the president promised this morning. if this tax cut were real, wouldn't pence have presented that last night instead of being dishonest about joe biden raising taxes on all americans? >> right. yeah, as we know, the biden plan would get rid of some of the tax cuts on high income earners. not those making under $400,000. i don't know why he wouldn't talk about this middle class tax cut other than there isn't one and there's no plan for one. it's difficult to get it done. certainly now difficult to get it done next year.
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but trump does this before every election. makes big promises about how he's going to cut everybody's taxes and we're going to have a vaccine right away and all the rest of this. it's trying to throw a carrot out there for voters. it's not based on anything that anyone has actually put on paper. >> well, the truth matters. brittany, the two were asked about racial justice last night. specifically in the case of breonna taylor. i want to share that. >> in the case of breonna taylor, was justice done? you have two minutes. >> i don't believe so. bad cops are good for bad cops. we need reform of policing in our country. >> we have our sympathies for breonna taylor. but i trust our justice system. a grand jury that refused the evidence. >> what did you make of that answer? >> i made of it that mike pence said exactly what i thought he would say.
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that he trusts the justice system that's always worked for people like him and that has never worked or has rarely work forward folks like me and certainly for people like breonna taylor and her family. we have got more evidence that has come out of that grand jury investigation, and that grand jury conversation. a lot of that was hidden during the media given that news came out when we found out about trump's positive covid test. but what we know is that there was evidence that was falsified to create the warrant that led to the raid in the first place. that the detective that filled out that warrant changed his story between march and may. so the facts are right there for us to look at and yet, mike pence, in the same breath, called breonna taylor both an innocent life and then said that we should accept the grand jury outcome. i certainly expect it but i think that it's important for us to know that nothing about what came out of that grand jury was justice or accountability for
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her life. and i think more importantly, even beyond this single case, mike pence has continued to beat the donald trump of this law and order, framing that we have to reject out of hand. i've been a broken record on this and i'll happily be so. 93% of all protests for racial justice in this country have been without incident. and much of the arrests that have come from the other 7% have been arrests of white supremacists and people looking to exploit the protests. it's critically important that we stop allowing them to run away with the narrative that continues to criminalize black people and that continues to forget and erase the fact it's police violence that brought us to this moment in the first place. >> that is not a broken record. you cannot sing the truth loud enough or often enough. at least not here. eli, i want to talk about health care and play part of what senator harris had to say. >> if you have a pre-existing condition, heart disease,
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diabetes, breast cancer, they are coming for you. if you love someone who has a pre-existing condition, they are coming for true. >> not true. >> if you are under age 26 on your parent's coverage, they're coming for you. >> she's going to get a lot of attention for that line. it could win over more senior citizen voters the biden/harris ticket has been peeling away. in all seriousness, why don't republicans have a plan. if obamacare was so awful, ain't this your moment to replace? >> you would think. but they don't have a plan. and that's why they are out there basically saying, promising that they'll continue coverage for pre-existing conditions which is essentially obamacare. and so, you know, it's not just the economy that the president is promising will be great next year. he just has to win the election. it's health care. you'll see the plan eventually. it's the china trade deal. it's the stimulus money. it's everything. it's all right around the corner.
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and it just, i think the american public sees through that. health care is the issue that helped democrats win the midterms in 2018 in a major fashion to take back the house. it's no surprise that strategically, this is the issue they want to harp on the most. you saw kamala harris not wanting to talk about certain things but she sure wanted to talk about health care last night. and you can guarantee that this is going to be a huge part of the democrats' closing message because this is something that they have the public support on their side on and whatever mike pence and donald trump say about it, the public knows that they are at the supreme court right now trying to repeal the affordable care act, take away coverage for pre-existing conditions and they do not have anything resembling a real health care plan to back it up. >> brittany, what do you think? >> well, i think it was critically important that kamala harris put attention back on this plan. i think the points that were made were so salient and lots of
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people are wondering not just how do we get donald trump and mike pence out of office, but what is the plan for moving america forward? and most certainly that has to include undoing the damage that has been created or attempted by this administration. we had to make sure in last night's debate that attention and spotlight was being put back on issues like health care, was being put back on issues like choice, was being put back on issues like donald trump's taxes. we've allowed them for far too long to control a news cycle. and what i think senator harris did on the health care question and more last night was to come back to the issues that the american people care about and the issues that the american people want to make sure they are clear about, there's a plan for them and that there's something waiting for them on the other side of this chaos. >> brittany, eli, ben, thank you so much. definitely got us smarter breaking down last night's event. coming up, bernie sanders
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joins us. i've got to find out what he thinks about president trump getting top-notch government-funded medical care to treat the coronavirus. almost sounds like medicare for all. plus, the president has been saying he's cured by an experimental antibody cocktail. we'll ask an infectious disease expert on what he knows about the treatment. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz... a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough. xeljanz can help relieve joint pain and swelling, stiffness, and helps stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened.
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back to the breaking news as president trump now says he will not participate in a virtual debate after the commission announced next week's face-off would be remote. the president is looking to get back on the campaign trail instead. and he's making some very bold claims in a newly tweeted video. in the video, the president says contracting coronavirus was a blessing from god and insists he's been cured by an experimental antibody cocktail. >> i want everybody to be given the same treatment as your president because i feel great. i feel like perfect. so i think this was a blessing from god that i caught it. this was a blessing in disguise. >> and despite testing positive for the coronavirus less than a week ago, the president returned to the oval office on wednesday. joining us now is dr. nahid bhadelia, an infectious disease
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physician and medical director of the special pathogens unit at boston medical center. let's start with president trump this morning saying he doesn't believe he's contagious at all. and we know at this point, at least 28 people who are expected to the white house or the campaign have also contracted the virus. is he not contagious at this point? >> stephanie, great point. so what the cdc says is that for mild and moderate cases people are contagious for at least ten days from the onset of illness. if you had more severe disease and received -- potentially immuno compromised or receive medications that may suppress your immune system, that may affect the amount of time you're shedding that virus. under cdc guidance, the president would still be considered as contagious and potentially dangerous for transmission to others. >> so we would not be allowed to go to school, work, but the president thinks he should be on a debate stage and the campaign trail. he also claimed he's been cured.
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watch this. >> so we have these drugs, eli lilly and the others that are so good. but they are, in my opinion, remember this, they're going to say that they are the putic. and i guess they are the praput. and i guess they purpose it's a cure. >> reven rgeneron is asking for approval for the drug that supposedly cured him. he took a number of things. >> stephanie, it isn't, as you said, he received remdesivir, the steroids. i want to provide perspective to people about why the president's claim that this drug that doesn't have trial data yet is actually harmful to getting the drug to the market itself. i've worked on the front line of multiple different pathogens or emerging infectious disease outbreaks.
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even in ebola, i took care of hundreds of patients with a disease with much higher mortality. any time there was promise of a new drug, your heart goes out. you want to get that access and have family members and patients to have that access. but the lesson every time in every outbreak has been if you start touting the benefits of a drug that don't -- the data yet doesn't exist, the marginal costs thcost s to that are immense. when people hear a powerful person like the president say this is the drug, this is the cure, no one will want to participate in the randomized control trials if people determine if a drug is safe, if a drug is efficacious as we need to and society invests a lot of money in a drug that may not be effective. by doing what he did in that video, we're delaying finishing those trials and getting the data we need for an fda approval. it's actually harming monoclonal
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antibodies. >> new coronavirus cases topped 50,000 for the first time in five days yesterday. i can't imagine any of those 50,000 people are feeling blessed. but overall, the u.s. death rate is still significantly higher here than the other g8 countries. give us a reality check. where are we by comparison? where are we headed? >> you know, this is what we've feared if you heard dr. fauci, dr. birx or any of the other scientists or physicians on the covid task force. we're talking into a fall, a period of time where we see the coronavirus is traditionally transmitted with greater efficacy and people are moving indoors. this pandemic fatigue. in the last week we've seen in 39 states the cases have been higher than they were last year. since september 20th, the hospitalizations have gone up. and the reason we've seen higher deaths is because we've looked
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for the silver bullet. we haven't worked as hard as we should have on the mitigation efforts. the way that the white house has sort of handled this pandemic is there will be a magic bullet, a vaccine, a drug but not that we'll avoid getting the disease in the first place which leads to hospitalizations and leads to death. once that cycle is on. a portion of those will end up in deaths and the hospitalizations themselves. they're costly. they have an immense impact on people's trajectory and general health. those are not anything to scoff about. there's more than 415,000 americans who have been hospitalized this year alone before the end of the year with this disease. >> doctor, thank you for joining me. always appreciate having you here. coming up next -- it is a toss-up people didn't see coming. i'll be speaking to the democrat taking on lindsey graham on what
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so false, a judge ordered them bistruck from the voter guide. prop 15 are using scare tactics but the following facts are not in dispute. prop 15 closes big corporate tax loopholes, protects homeowners, and cuts small business taxes. but that's not all, by closing the loopholes, communities can invest in local schools, ppe for nurses, and our firefighters. don't be deceived by big corporate scare tactics. vote yes on 15. traffic and air pollution will be even worse after the pandemic. that's why we support measure rr to keep caltrain running. which is at risk of shutdown because of the crisis. to keep millions of cars off our roads, to reduce air pollution and fight climate change. and measure rr helps essential workers like me get to work and keep our communities healthy. relieve traffic. reduce pollution. rescue caltrain. [all] yes on measure rr.
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i want you to understand that your grandparents' democratic party is no long eer around. the people running the democratic party today are nuts. >> the first step in working with the other side is not to call the other side nuts. you know, even though democrats and republicans may take different paths, hopefully our
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destination is the same. how can we make south carolina a better place for all of us, not just democrats or republicans or progressives versus conservatives or liberals and whatever other term you want to come up with. we're south carolinians first. we're americans first. how are we going to work together? >> that is south carolina senator lindsey graham and democratic challenger jaime harrison squaring off in the first debate in what has become one of the key senate races to watch in south carolina. where a democrat has not been elected to the senate in that state for more than 20 years. but according to the cook political report, it's now officially moved the race up to a toss-up. as polls show the two in a dead heat. the former high school teacher and former south carolina democratic party chair threatening to end graham's nearly 26-year run in congress. jaime harrison joins us now. welcome. thank you for joining us. you've raised a lot of money. over a million dollars. how much of that money has come from outside south carolina and
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are you worried that national democrats are more excited about you than maybe the ones in south carolina? >> well, stephanie, the polls don't lie. we're tied 48-48. there was a poll you guys did back in february that showed me 17 points down. and consistently for the last few polls. there was even a poll i just read a minute ago released today that showed me up by one point. and that is because there is so much momentum on the ground here in south carolina. we've had over 14,000 volunteers sign up for this campaign. you can drive around south carolina into some republican areas and you see more jaime harrison signs than you see donald trump and lindsey graham signs combined. people are hungry for change right now. they are ready for somebody that's going to bring hope back to these communities. lindsey graham is trying to scare people to vote for him. i'm trying to inspire people to vote for me. and that's the big difference right now. i think in this time of a pandemic where so much anxiety
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is in our households, whether we send our kids to school, whether or not we have a job, whether or not we have health care. folks want somebody with a positive message about where we go forward. and that's what we're bringing. and that's why we're going to send lindsey graham home. >> let's talk about those republican areas where you'd like to see more jaime harrison signs. during the debate you criticized senator graham for going back on his word and moving forward with the supreme court nominee of amy coney barrett. but judges are a selling point for a lot of voters. what is your message to those voters who are thrilled he's pushing through another supreme court justice? >> well, my message is this. lindsey graham went back on his word. my grandfather told me -- taught me that a man is only as good as his word. and lindsey graham basically stated, he said use my words against me. and that's what we're doing. we are holding the tape like he instructed us to do. and he said that in this election year we should not take
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up a judicial nominee. and he didn't have any caveats on it. that's what he said. he said he couldn't vote for it. now sometimes somebody may say something and change their mind or lie about it and it benefits you. but when you open that pandora's box and you allow somebody to betray your trust once, i can guarantee you from my life experience, they'll do it again. and that's not what you need in a public servant. you need someone who is going to be honest with the people, even when the people don't always agree with it. and that's what i promise to do. i will never lie to the people of south carolina. and that's why this movement has grown so much here in south carolina. and people trust me. they don't trust lindsey graham. >> well, what do you do when someone's lies hurt you? senator graham has tried repeatedly to tie you to far more progressive members of your party. how do you cut through that noise in a state that president trump won by nearly 15 points?
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>> you know, my message to the people of south carolina from day one of this campaign, stephanie, was, this is not about democrats versus republicans or progressives versus conservatives. it's about doing what is right versus what is wrong. when a rural hospital closes here in south carolina, people do not care whether or not it's a liberal or conservative way to keep their hospital open. because if your hospital closes and it takes you instead of ten minutes to go to hospital, 15, it takes you 25 or 35 or 45 minutes, that's a death sentence. and nobody cares about politics at that point in time. but lindsey graham has failed to act. he has failed to do what is necessary to protect the people in south carolina. that's his job. but he believes his job is being important and relevant in washington, d.c. that adage from tip o'neil that all politics is local is true. we have to focus on the issues that people care about in this state. and that's what i've done from
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day one. and that's why i always say, you want to be a part of this movement because it's a movement. go to jaime harrison.com. we are changing the face of the south and we're changing the face of south carolina in this election. >> i want you to talk to my mom for a second because the supreme court this week ruled that absentee ballots in south carolina have to have a witness signature on them. on its surface, i can hear my mother's voice right now. the average american would say, well, that makes sense. a witness signature. can you explain to us how when you look under the hood this could be a voter suppression tactic? >> well it is a voter suppression tactic. and, you know, the leaders who pushed us in our republican legislature and lindsey graham agreed with it. they should be ashamed of themselves. and the midst of a pandemic, here in south carolina, 3,500 people have died as a result of it, including my grand aunt gladys. 150,000 people infected with the
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virus. 750,000 people laid off from their jobs. and so the anxiety is at an all-time high in this state. and instead of our leaders trying to find ways to make it easier for families to make ends meet and do the things they should do like exercising the most important right they have, which is the right to vote, they try to put road blocks in front of folks. what do you tell that grandparent that is in a nursing home that does not want to expose herself to the coronavirus that now you have to -- in submitting your ballot and sending it in the mail, you have to find somebody that you now have to interact with in order to sign your ballot. what do you say to those type of people? it's a type of leadership that just doesn't care. all they care about is keeping power. and that's sad. it's really sad. we send our sons and daughters overseas to fight for democracy, but we do everything and not we, some folks, do everything that they can to suppress the vote
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here in our country. and that's the saddest thing. and when i'm in the united states senate, we'll start to change those things. >> well, that's if you make your way into the united states senate. >> we're doing it, stephanie. >> what can you do to combat these voter suppression efforts? you said what would you -- listen, i would tell my granny, if there's a road block there, that means you need to vote even more. but besides advising loved ones to get out there and vote, is there anything you can do to stop this process? >> well, you know, one of the things that we've been doing, and we've been suing the heck out of folks here to make sure we eliminate all barriers that we can for folks to exercise their right. we have recruited hundreds of lawyers here in south carolina so that, you know, we are encouraging people to go and vote. here in south carolina now, you can go vote absentee. submitting your application through the mail or go in
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person. and we've seen long lines here in south carolina because people are excited and they're energized. they want to go and vote. but we're making sure that we have lawyers that are available to protect their right because we know, listen, i've been doing elections in south carolina since i was 16 and i know the other side likes to send goons out to intimidate people. they'll send police cars to stand outside of precincts or they'll go to the college campuses, historcally black colleges and universities and try to intimidate students. we'll not allow that this election cycle. anybody who is eligible to vote should have their right to vote unencumbered. i'm going to make sure we do everything. i'm going to exercise and utilize every resource at our dispense to make sure folks get that opportunity to do just that. >> all right then. mr. harrison, good luck to you. a few weeks to go. it's a very important race. >> thank you, stephanie. take care. we've got breaking news to
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share. just moments ago, before boarding a flight for a campaign stop in arizona, vice president joe biden responded to the news that president trump says he will not participate in a virtual debate. >> we dont know what the president is going to do. he changes his mind every second. so for me to comment on that now would be irresponsible. i think that i'm going to follow the commission's recommendations. if he goes off and is going to have a rally, i'll -- i don't know what i'll do. >> joining us to discuss, senator bernie sanders. senator, we have a lot to cover. we've got to get to that breaking news. your reaction to president trump now refusing to participate in a virtual debate saying it's a waste of his time. >> stephanie, that was 12 seconds ago, right? he may have changed his mind by then. i mean, i empathize with biden. you don't know what trump is going to do. he lies all of the time.
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he changes his mind all of the time. he's going to sit down and negotiate a stimulus bill. he's not going to negotiate. he'll be in the debate. he won't be in the debate. but the truth is, this is somebody who has covid-19. we have no idea what's going on in the white house. how he is feeling. they lie about that as well. you know, if i were in biden's position, and i think the election commission is right. i dont know that i would want to be in the room with him. a virtual debate is appropriate. trump did not do well in the last debate. he may not want to debate again. who knows. >> the president's message to the american people earlier this week is, don't let covid dominate your life. the president also received top medical treatment at a 100% government-funded facility. that same care would cost the average american anywhere between $60,000 and $100,000. what do you have to say to that?
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>> well, what i have to say about that, i don't begrudge the president of the united states getting the health care that he needs when he is seriously ill. but i do very much resent the fact that we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people as a human right. all right? the kind of care that trump got is good. that is the kind of care that every american should get. and that is why i am a strong advocate for a medicare for all single payer system. you go into any doctor's office, any hospital, you do not take out your wallet. you do not take out your credit card. it's 100% publicly funded, available to all whether you are rich or whether you are poor. but i think, stephanie, this whole covid-19 crisis, above and beyond trump's illness tells us how dysfunctional the current system is. millions and millions of people
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have lost their health care because they have lost their job. and what i think the american people understand is that health care is a human right, not a job benefit, not a privilege. all of uris, rich, poor, old, young, whether we are working or whether we are not. and the momentum for a medicare for all single payer system is growing stronger every single day. we should not be paying twice as much per capita as our neighbors in canada while 90 million americans are uninsured or underinsured and we pay, by far, the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. the american people know that. >> let's shift gears to the latest on coronavirus relief stimulus. the president has closed the door on a large comprehensive stimulus package. but he did ask congress to pass a stand-alone relief bill. speaker pelosi seems open to that. while the 50,000 jobs in the
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airline industry are important, what about the fact we could see a separate carve out for the airline facility that has huge lobbying efforts, huge influence in washington and nothing for mom and pop shops that are closing every single day? we've lost over 100,000 small businesses already. >> it's unbelievable. and i think, you know, every day we get overwhelmed by some crazy thing that trump says and we all focus on that. but your point is well taken. in my state of vermont and all over this country, small businesses have shut. and many of them are not going to reopen again. millions of people have lost their jobs. in the wealthiest country on earth, you've got folks today who have lost their health care. they are worried about being evicted. they are worried about putting food on the table for their kids. so i -- the truth is that the house of representatives, i think four months ago now, did the right thing. they passed a comprehensive bill, including protecting
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workers in the airline industry which we've got to do. but we have to protect small businesses, workers who lost their jobs by extending that $600 a week supplement unemployment that was previously the case. >> but that bill, the h.e.r.o.e.s. act is just a piece of paper. it didn't make its way through the senate. is it worth it to really take a look at doing more stand-alone bills like the one for independent restaurants. we've got over 5 million restaurant workers out of work and hundreds of thousands of restaurants that could close for good. you know republicans at this point are not going to play ball on a comprehensive bill. could you slice and dice this thing? >> well, it depends on what the slicing and the dicing looks like. the devil will be in the details. yeah. but the answer is, if we have a strong bill that protects small business, that protects workers, that understands the terrible crises that states and cities throughout america are now facing, yeah, i could.
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but the devil will be in the details. >> the argument that republicans are making, that the president is the law and order president, and it's democrats who want to hurt things like cops and firefighters, wouldn't giving more money to states actually secure those jobs for firefighters, police officers and teachers who are at risk of getting their pay cut if city budgets get cut? >> absolutely. i mean, it's not what will happen. it's what has already happened and will only become worse in the future. we have lost many, many hundreds of thousands of jobs. if your a police officer, a firefighter, if you are a municipal worker or state employee, a teacher, you should be worried. and because of the coronavirus, revenue for states and cities has significantly gone down. states are struggling. they desperately need help from the federal government. look, right now we are in the -- for working people, stephanie,
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we are in the worst economic downturn since the great depression. and the federal government has got to step up to the plate in this terrible moment of crisis and protect the working families of this country. >> last night when you heard mike pence repeat this line that kamala harris is the most progressive member of the senate, does that hurt your feelings? that's your lane? did they forget you? >> did i take it personally? no, i didn't take it personally. look, you know, pence and trump have been saying all kinds of things. i am a strong supporter of kamala. i think she did very, very well last night. but what we have is among the progressive movement a strong agenda. and people will judge who is fighting for that agenda or not. and kamala has been there on some issues, maybe not on some other issues. but she will be an excellent, excellent vice president, and i look forward to her taking that
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position. but what we talk about a progressive agenda, what it essentially comes down to is the understanding that we need a government today that represents all of us, not just the 1%. what is not being talked about all that much in my view right now is that in the midst of this terrible economic downturn, the billionaire class is doing phenomenally well. we are continuing to see a massive transfer of wealth and you have hundreds of billionaires who are making huge amounts of money. the united states of america can guarantee health care to all people as a human right. exists all over the world. we can raise that minimum wage to at least 15 bucks an hour, something kamala and joe biden want to do. we can rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, roads and bridges, create millions of good-paying jobs. we can combat climate change and in the process create jobs through sustainable energy and
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energy efficiency and sustainable energy. so i look forward to seeing joe in the white house, kamala as vice president, but as a member of the progressive movement, i'm going to fight as hard as i can for our agenda. >> climate change and environmental issue and economic issue. senator sanders, thank you for sxwroi joining thus morning. i appreciate it. next a series of polls are painting a dire picture for president trump. how is this different than any different from what we saw in 2016. we were saying the same things in 2016 and last i checked, things turned out different. you can't predict the future.
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let's go unicorn hunting. vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris faced off in the only vp debate last night. did it change anybody's minds? nbc's chris jansing sat down with three undecided voters in the battleground state of arizona after the debate and joins us now from flagstaff and steve kornacki at the big board. chris, what did you learn? >> reporter: so there was an intense level of lingering disappointment from the first debate that these panelists really wanted just two basic things, they wanted some level of civility, and they wanted to actually learn something about the issues, and at the end of the day, they felt they got more of both from one of the candidates. take a listen.
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>> harris did a good job of connecting with the younger groups. she mentioned a lot of 20s or the working class paying rent every month. >> i would have liked a more concrete plan on what they want to do with the covid-19 pandemic, because harris definitely convinced me she had a plan, not what the plan was. >> reporter: what did you think about the vice president going repeatedly over time? >> it kind of showed a little bit of disrespect because he didn't really care about his time was up. >> reporter: who do you think won? >> marginally very, very small i think it was harris. i'm still not fully locked down into voting for biden yet but so far, odds are favorable. >> i'd agree with him, it was marginally and i think harris presented herself in a more professional presidential manner. >> harris by a little. >> reporter: now are you more interested in watching the next presidential debate? >> i don't think it will be
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helpful. >> personally i don't think i'd need it really. >> it would be nice to see if trump can behave. >> let's turn now to steve kornacki at the big board. there have been a ton of polls out this week that are painting a pretty dire picture for president trump but i feel like we've had this conversation exactly four years ago. why is this different? >> exactly four years ago today, i believe was the day that "access hollywood" tape came out, a very low moment in the polls for president trump, for donald trump, candidate trump in 2016. right now you see almost a ten-point lead on average. see it right there, 9.7 is the average lead nationally for biden over trump and that is up about three points from just a week ago. it extends to the different battleground states. these are polls conducted at least since that debate last week, some of these are averages, because in some of the states like pennsylvania, we've had a bunch of polls that have come out but you see biden leads to varying degrees across the board in these battleground
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states. when you say deja vu though, there it is. the "access hollywood" tape, within a week donald trump cratered in 2016, this is the polling from october 17, 2016 and this was the lowest moment in the fall of 2016 for donald trump but notice, he was behind. it was 7.1. that's less than the number i just showed new this race now and that's the thing you see, on average biden's led by 7.1, highest lead nearly 10. trump's barely gotten closer than 6. in 2016 the average lead clinton had was half what have biden's had, could only get as high as seven and trump got within one point. closer race than 2016 than so far at 2020. i get the parallel, not worth forgetting that certainly. >> not a time to take a nap, not a time to get complacent.
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keep paying attention. thank you at home for watching. that wraps this up busy hour. hallie jackson picks it up next. just between us, you know what's better than mopping? anything! at the end of a long day, it's the last thing i want to do. well i switched to swiffer wet jet and its awesome. it's an all-in-one so it's ready to go when i am. the cleaning solution actually breaks down dirt and grime. and the pad absorbs it deep inside. so, it prevents streaks and haze better than my old mop.
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