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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  July 11, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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but this time, this hearing tomorrow in the middle of all this, given the reason this job is open in the first place, this thing should be a doozy. but this time, this hearing tomorrow in the middle of all this, given the reason this job is open in the first place, this thing should be a doozy. again, starts 9:00 a.m. eastern here on msnbc. that does it for us tonight. see you again tomorrow. now time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening. do you think he will be asked about recusing himself from matters involving investigations of the president? >> i think he will be asked if the president asked him to pledge his loyalty. he is going to be asked if anyone has already tried to impede his work on anything related to the russia investigation. he is going to be -- i mean, tomorrow is going to be -- it is going to be so distinct and so different from any other confirmation hearing for an fbi director ever.
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i don't even really know what to anticipate. >> i'm fascinated to see what position he will take on recusal. he could just do that. he could just say i will recuse myself from everything involving the trump investigation. leave that to the deputy and to the people already doing it. special prosecutor. >> yeah. we don't -- we know very little -- very little about christopher ray. but we know even less about how the administration came to nominate him. why they nominated him. and how they expect this nomination to function in light of the fact that outgoing fbi director was just fired not for cause. so it's a very unusual -- i think this is a very tenus time for the fbi as an institution and a very political hot time of what will happen between democrats and republicans tomorrow. >> i will set my alarm for 8:59 tomorrow. >> me too. thanks. >> thanks, rachel. this is a much much bigger
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problem for jared kushner. five years bigger. >> in retrospect, i probably would have done things differently. >> this is the digital equivalent of the smoking gun left at a crime scene. >> there's an e-mail from a russian suggesting that the russian government wants to help, that would be very problematic. >> if isn't evidence of collusion, i don't know what is. we are beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what is being investigated. >> right now at this moment there is probable cause to charge donald trump jr. with the federal offense. >> i'm going to let bob mueller sort out all the criminality. that's not the job of members of congress. >> this meeting will become a mini investigation in and of itself. mueller's people will want to talk to everyone there. >> it is high time for president trump to come out with the full story. enough with the drip drip.
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come out with the full story. clearly they are lying and explaining their lies. >> sometimes people do or don't do what should be obvious. ♪ ♪ >> in retrospect, i probably would have done things a little differently. we've all said that. and that's what donald trump jr. said in an interview today about a meeting he arranged with the russian lawyer who he believed was a russian government official who was eager to help donald trump become president by delivering russian government dirt on hillary clinton. today donald trump jr. released the e-mails arranging that meeting. having been told that new york times was about to publish those same e-mails in their entirety. and in that interview today, donald trump jr. said the reason
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he handled the meeting the way he did was that quote things are going a million miles an hour. you know what it's like to be on a campaign? we just won indiana but we're talking about a contested convention. things are going a million miles an hour. every other presidential campaign that has managed to not get investigated by the fbi for collusion with russia, which is to say every other presidential campaign in american history has by summer become a very fast-moving operation. no one has ever been detached from reality enough to describe it as a million miles an hour. but it can feel high speed just like driving on the interstate highway system at high speed. and if you violate the law on the interstate highway system at high speed, you aren't going to be able to tell the cops it happened because you were going a million miles an hour. that is donald trump jr..
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donald trump jr. said nothing came of the meeting because the russian woman he met with wanted to talk about adoption instead of destroying hillary clinton's campaign. that story will probably work for donald trump jr.. as the investigation proceeds because this is not a donald trump jr. story. meaning he is not the person in the most trouble in this story. donald trump jr. is now serving as a very convenient heat shield for his brother-in-law, jared kushner, who was also in that meeting, and was included on the e-mails entitled russia, clinton, private and confidential. the e-mails that set up that meeting. >> donald jr might face some legal liability for soliciting something of value to a federal campaign from a foreign citizen. that is against the law.
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but it is not clear that law could be applied to this kind of meeting. jared kushner is facing a much more serious criminal liability as a result of simply having received that e-mail. that alone. the e-mail. that is a serious criminal issue. for jared kushner. and even heavier liability for having gone to that meeting, having gone into that room and having sat there. jared kushner is the only person in that meeting, only person in that room who six months later found himself filling out the federal government's standard form 86 questionnaire for national security positions. he today fill out this form to obtain a national security clearance. the very first words on the form are about what happens to you if you don't tell the truth. failure to answer any questions completely and truthfully could
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result in adverse personnel reaction against you, including loss of employment. and in the line right above where you ender your name, it says, i have read the instructions and i understand that if i withhold, misrepresent or falsify information on this form, i am subject to the penalties for inaccurate or false statement per u.s. criminal code title 18 section 1001. right beside that sentence is a box to check yes or no. i have read the instructions. and i understand that if i withhold, misrepresent or falsify information on this form, i am subject to the penalties for inaccurate or false statement per the u.s. criminal code. it is right there. right above the spot where you fill your name in on the form. the first thing you see. and if you don't check yes in that box, they don't bother to read the rest of the form. so jared kushner checked yes.
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he checked yes that he knew that it is a crime, federal crime to withhold any information. he knew that. he checked the box, yes. and then he withheld and misrepresented information on this form. he did not tell the truth on that form. he did not include a meeting that he had with the russian ambassador where he was joined by michael flynn and now we know he did not include the meeting with the russian lawyer, who was presented to jared kushner in that e-mail and in that room as a russian government official. and for that, jared kushner is facing five years tonight. five years. that's the maximum penalty special prosecutor robert mueller could seek if jared kushner is prosecuted and convicted for withholding misrepresenting and falsifying information on standard form 86. donald trump jr. isn't in that kind of trouble tonight. not five years worth of trouble.
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if there is legal liability for donald trump jr. in that meeting, it is in the untested waters of campaign finance law normally administered toothlessly by the federal election commission. it is within robert mueller's rights to investigate donald trump jr.'s meeting and con dujting that meeting but a criminal prosecution of donald trump jr. for that meeting is unlikely. the campaign finance law that was designed to swing into criminal action over a meeting like that, was really in anticipation of the possibility of someone like donald trump jr. accepting a big bag of cash in that realm. it was talking about taking things of value thought to be of monetary value. for donald trump, donald trump jr. was a big player in that meeting. it is all about jared kushner. everyone in the trump family surely knows this tonight. their lawyers know doubt told them weeks ago when jared
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kushner amended his standard form 86 with the disclosure he attended that meeting with natalia and paul manafort and donald jr, surely the lawyers explained to the family right away. exactly who faces the big criminal liability for that meeting and surely at that point, jared kushner and ivanka trump and her father had to begin to wonder if it was such a good idea for jared kushner to move down to washington, take the job in the white house, and fill out standard form 86. if jared kushner didn't do that, if he didn't try to become in effect the shadow president to the president, working in the white house, with full jurisdiction over whatever he wants it have full jurisdiction over, jared kushner would be in the same boat as donald trump jr. tonight. instead jared kushner is facing five years and donald trump jr. is saying in retrospect probably i would have done things a
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little differently. is that what jared kushner's wife is telling him tonight? is that what he's telling her? in retrospect we probably should have done things a little differently? we probably should have stayed in new york in the real estate business? we probably shouldn't have decided to take jobs in the white house and try to take over the government. but that's what jared kushner decided to do. and before his father-in-law handed over the government to him, the government handed him standard form 86. with warnings all over it. that it is a federal crime to withhold misrepresent or false nie information on this form. jared kushner will have only one defense when he has to testify under oath about this congress and the special prosecutor, i forgot. i forgot that meeting.
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with paul manafort. and donald jr. and natalia vessel knits skia. here is is who jared kushner will have to claim under oath that he forgot. >> translator: it's quite possible that maybe they were looking for such information. they wanted it so badly. >> what will be the credibility? of his insistence that he simply forgot about meeting her? jared kushner will then be asked how many meetings did he have in trump tower during the campaign with russian women who could not speak english and arrived with their own interpreter? when donald trump jr. testifies, i forgot, his credibility about forgetting will be tested. and special prosecutor robert mueller will have to ask himself if he thinks a washington, d.c. jury will believe that jared kushner forget natalia and her
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trance plat later. people in jared kushner's position usually don't like to take that risk so they decide to help prosecutors wherever they might be able to help. michael flynn also facing five years for the same violation on his security clearance application, already offered to talk to the fbi if they give him immunity. and bad news for kushner, if he made a deal, there may not be a way for jared kushner to talk his way out of this with the special prosecutor. in retrospect, jared probably would have done things a little differently. joining us now, bob bower. also with us david k. johnson. and also with us, max boone. bob bower, what's your reading
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of the possible legal liabilities coming out of that meeting? >> well aspect of this meeting that may have been overlooked is that everyone who attended. campaign manager, attended his agent on behalf of the campaign. the campaign is an organization comes within the circle of potential skploesh you're here. i think that's getting lost with the emphasis on donald trump jr.'s potential exposure. of course each one of those individuals has to account for their actions and what led to them and what followed. but i think we ought to recognize that trump committee here wasn't involved in any solicitation, or for that matter, any value they solicited in violation of the law if in fact the evidences establishes that.
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>> can i stop you on the solicitation of something of value. that has been testified to in law that something can be of information. something of value is money. something of value is you will cater our event for free. give us hotel space for free. something like this. but has that been tested in law? >> there is no question that under the federal campaign finance law, information has marked value. consider for example domestic research firms and political marketplace that are retained to produce research, legitimate legal opposition research obtaining materials legally required. campaigns pay a significant amount of money for that and supplying of that information without charge from my source is a thing of value, contribution in kind under the law. of course, if the source is a foreign national much less foreign government it is an illegal contribution. >> david k. johnston, we have reports tonight that donald
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trump jr. got his original statement the first public statement he made about this to "the new york times," he got that cleared with his father. turns out now everything in that statement has been undone by donald trump jr.'s own subsequent statements. >> we now can say without certaincy that all of the denials by the trumps an their surrogates, including kellyanne conway and ms. huckabee sanders and sean spicer were not true. russians were involved. i think the question people should be asking themselves is what in the world would lead you to do anything when you get the kind that donald trump got except to pick up the phone and call the fbi. that's your legal obligation. a foreign government is trying to influence us. you should pick up the phone. look what al gore did when bush was offered a play book when
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they ran against each other. they called the fbi. >> jared kushner is going to be asked under oath, he said would he cooperate with the house investigating committee, sew will be under oath with them. he will be asked under oath why did you not include this meeting as well as others on your security clearance form and the only possible defense he can offer will be, i forgot. >> lawrence, you're seeing this avalanche of lies come down on top of the trump white house. and quite possibly crush the trump white house. i must say i'm just horrified and heart broken by what's happened. just step back and think about this. this is the first time in american history when there are credible allegations that our president colluded with a hostile foreign power to win office and is quite possibly subject to blackmail by the same foreign power today while in
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office. what's heart breaking to when, lawrence, as somebody who put my entire adult life as a result is the fact that the republican party has become donald trump's enablers. they are complicit in what he is doing to our country. shame he is guiding us through. even today when we see that donald trump jr. welcomed the help of the russian government to win the election, republicans are still making excuses for them. most republicans are refusing to distance themselves from this white house. that is just shameful. it is embarrassing. i can't believe this is happening. in my lifetime, republican party has gone from mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall, to tear down our opponents. >> just saying i forget, i can't recall, i can take that answer about anything. but if you say i can't recall this russian lawyer that comes in not speaking a word of
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english. multiple e-mails aarranging her arrival, saying she can't meet at this time because she won't be off the plane yet. there's a lot of detail in e-mails arain blging the meeting. then she showed up. the credibility of someone simply forgetting a meeting like that seems to me could be tested rather harshly under oath. >> no question that it will be tested. you're right about that. others that have no doubt recollections that bear on what he might have been planning for this meeting other e-mails we haven't seen that exchanged with others about the meeting both before and afterward. so there's a wealth of potential testimony and documentation that i think could ultimately reflect on whether or not he really forgot or that's the best excuse he can come up with at the present time. we just don't know. that the one point about all of this, that i would emphasize
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which is whatever inquiry takes place here on the part of the congressional committees, bob mueller, will take a while. but what we do know is there is plenty to investigate. but where it leads and what else might be there to bear on the issue that you're interested in here, jared kushner's credibility is at this point from far certain it could take a while mp. >> david, having studied the trumps as you have over the years, writing books and studying their businesses, donald trump's loyalty if it comes down to it between his son-in-law and son donald jr. >> that would be a tough choice. i think the person that will face is is the person you brought up, jared kushner. is he willing to go to prison like his father did in order to protect his father-in-law. the dynamic within the family are about to become very damaging. this is not the end of the facts that will come out and we need to know. >> max boone, what should
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republicans say at this point given the state of the information as its emerged monday and tuesday of this week? >> they ought to say lawrence, it's pretty obvious, they will put patriotism ahead of the party. they understand the number one party right now is to get to the bottom of this. they need a kpligs that goes hand in hand with bob mueller's special investigation. they made it clear they will not a support a president who looks the other way while his campaign is colluding. if they do not make a break with donald trump sooner rather than later they will enjoy him on the sheet of history will judge them very harshly. they have to have that moment,
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that republicans finally had in 1974 with richard nixon when they said enough is enough. there are too many lies. we cannot swallow the lies any more. that's it mr. president, we're not going to bat any more. we have not reached that moment yet but we need to reach that moment because the evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the trump campaign is just piling up. and you have to, it's -- it should be more than republicans can bear but i fear it is not. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, congressional reaction to the trump campaign's meeting with someone who they firmly believe was a russian government official who was going to give them russian government dirt on hillary clinton, congressman eric swauld well will join us. later, a trump biographer considers the difficult history, very difficult history, of donald trump and donald trump jr.. phone with our allstate agent,
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the future isn't silver suits anit's right now.s, think about it. we can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. find love anywhere. he's cute. and buy things from, well, everywhere. how? because our phones have evolved. so isn't it time our networks did too? introducing america's largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. it's a new kind of network. xfinity mobile. congressman trey gowdy did not rush to the defense of the trumps. >> someone close to the president needs to get everyone connected with that campaign in a room. and say from the time you saw dr. gentleman having ao until the moment you drank vodka with a guy named boris, you list every one of those and we will
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turn them over to the counsel until this drip drip drip is undermining the credibility of the administration. >> here is what chairman said today. on donald trump jr.'s offer to cooperate with congressional committees. >> we certainly want him to come in plainly as we saw constantly evolving stories from the president's son, we cannot rely on any public representations that are made by the family about their contacts with the russians. we have now seen a very demonstratable pattern of dissembling about these meetings. this was unethical. it was, i think, in violation of the oaths of citizenship to willingly solicit, seven courage foreign intervention in our election. so this is a very serious business whether criminal laws were violated or not. >> joining us now, congressman, democrat of california.
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congressman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i could give us your legal reading as a former prosecutor of what you see in donald trump jr.'s meeting? with jared kushner, paul manafort. >> good evening, lawrence. it fits the pattern p tp actually reminds me of a vision test you get when you go to the eye doctor. they show you the different lenses where it makes the, you know, slide in front of you, either clearer or blurrier. and each piece of evidence that we get makes it clearer that the trump campaign was willing to to work with the russians, receive damaging information, during the campaign. that's why for all the reasons there that we must be able to conduct our investigation in the house and i think lawrence to the point of your last guest we need an independence commission. that's the only way we have true credibility and progress on this. >> so congressman, is that an expression of doubt in your own committee's ability to do this? >> no. it is actually an explosion of history.
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after september 11th we had congressional inquiries into what happened. most progress was made because we had independent bipartisan appointed experts who looked at our vulnerabilities and made recommendations so it would never happen again. we are safer and more protected from terrorism because they did that work. if we want to make sure we're not in a mess like this again and find out which u.s. persons were responsible i think we need to take this outside of congress. >> let's listen to what senator lindsey graham said about this today. >> if there was an e-mail suggesting the russian government wanted to help you and you took the meeting, that's problematic. if nothing came of the meeting, i'd like to know that because the harm is even engaging with somebody who suggests that a foreign government wants to help your campaign. >> congressman, is there a different feeling on capitol hill today? you heard trey gowdy.
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no attempt at all in his segment on fox news tonight to defend the trumps in this situation. has any mood changed in the republican defenders? >> yes. i do sense that they are starting to ask themselves do we really want to defend this guy and constant lies they put out. my hope, lawrence, is that regardless of what happens with the criminal probe, let bob mueller and his team do the work that there is an understanding that the russians have not left. they will do this again. other countries will see this as an opportunity. if we do anything in congress we can better work together to secure the operation and we can move forward, show the country we are united, and not just in our corners waez have seen with the republicans so far defending the president. >> i want it to listen to something angus king said today. what you are hearing from the trump side of this, everything was going a million miles an
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hour. donald trump jr. doesn't really know campaign law. wasn't sure what he was doing here. let's listen to what senator king said about this. >> now can you argue that he and jared kushner maybe were naive. they didn't really know what they were getting into. but you can't make that argument with paul manafort. very sophisticated guy involved in a lot of campaigns. and he certainly knew there was something fishy about an e-mail like this, invitation to get opposition research from the russian government. >> congressman, it seems to me that perfect cast of trump characters in the room for responsibility, there's no way to duck responsibility when have you manafort in the room, on all of the e-mails leading up to the meeting. he knows all about it. he can't claim, gee, i didn't know there was anything wrong with this kind of meeting. >> actually, lawrence, ignorance is not a defense for any of them. but you're right. if you just take a step back, i
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still think it doesn't pass the right or wrong test for any of them either. you don't have to be someone who worked on multiple presidential campaigns to know that russia is not our friend. that damaging information wrongfully, that it is just wrong. it was just wrong and you were willing to participate in the cheating after presidential election. so whether it's a city council race or a race for the presidency, this would just be wrong. >> congressman swalwell, thank you. >> my pleasure. coming up, donald trump's lawyer now thinks that jared kushner is hurting the defense of the president. that's breaking news. that's the latest breaking news item tonight from the "new york times." that's next.
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here is the man who donald trump jr. relied on to arrange his meeting with what he believed was a russian government official who had dirt on hillary clinton. >> i shall now have an episode -- where's teddy? what happened to teddy? you don't know andy pandy. oh, shall we look? let's march. andy pandy's coming to town. la la la la la. andy pandy's coming to town. la la la la la. >> what could possibly go wrong
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with dealing with people like that when arranging very important and possibly illegal meetings with russians who want to help your presidential campaign? joining us now, david corn, washington journal chief from mother jones and also josh baro, senior editor from business insider and msnbc contributor. david, i want to go to you quickly here. that's goldstone, connection to the russians. you wrote a piece about this today outlieping this cast of characters. just run us through that as quickly as you can. >> i'll try. goldstone is a talent manager, a brit -- >> talent manager with no talent as he just demonstrated on the deck of that ship. >> no comment. but he managed a pop star, pop singer, not such a star, very active in russia. his father happened to be a billionaire oligarch developer. who has been honored the order
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of order by putin for all of the great construction work he he has done in russia. both of them partnered up with donald trump to bring miss universe to moscow in 2013. that was donald trump's only successful venture ever in russia. he tried for decades to do business there. that's the only one that panned out. at the end of it, the end of it, he was talking with them about doing a trump tower and donald trump jr. and ivanka and others worked with goldstone to try to find a location in moscow to do this. and eventually it fizzled out like a lot of his other projects. but key thing here is, if you look at these memos, you have a russian oligarch developer meeting, these e-mails, meeting with a putin official who has negative information on hillary and they bring it through goldstone and emmin to donald trump jr..
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this is a real conspiracy. not made up. putin, the putin regime, making a direct connection through donald trump's business partner to the trump campaign. very pure, very simple, very elegant and that brings in paul manafort and jared kushner and they are all together. putin's regime overlapping with trump world. >> let's listen to what donald trump jr. said tonight about this meeting and watch how quickly he gets jared kushner out of the room. let's listen to this. >> i never even heard of it before that day. you know, i think it became pretty parent to jared and paul, i think jared a left after a few minutes. >> on the phone -- >> we were all there. i was basically sitting there listening as courtesy to my acquaintance who set up the meeting. >> josh, jared kushner in the deepest liability for the
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meeting and that's the one who donald trump jr. gets out of the room as quickly as he can. >> yeah. such a weird story that like what they think is the innocent explanation here. basically, and sean hannity read the e-mail. can't dance around it. this is part of russian efforts to support mr. trump. russian efforts. it is like jared -- if you received an e-mail that said that and you were unaware of russian government efforts to support your campaign, wouldn't your answer be, the what efforts? the what russian efforts? he said, i love that. especially later in the summer. he takes it in stride. took the meeting. they took the meeting as a courtesy, he claims. nothing came of it. but i took meeting as a courtesy to an acquaintance. was trump jr polling cush mer and manafort, was he pulling them into meetings as a courtesy to someone he didn't even know that well?
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other thing is i feel like people are taking it as a given that the story about nothing came out of the meeting is true. i think that's possible. russian oligarchs want sanctions appeal. they would ask for that even if nothing offered in return. people all have good reason to want us to think that nothing good came out of the meeting. we should consider the possibility that something came out of meeting. >> latest breaking news from new york times is that donald trump's lawyer he is not ace colleagues, i'm reading directly from article, that kushner can be whispering, keeping the lawyers out of the loop, according to someone with the legal team, viewing mr. kushner as obstacle and freelancer more concerned about protecting himself than his father-in-law. the person said david corn i am not surprised. >> i'm not surprised by any of this. and the key question still seems to be the lying and colluding.
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for how many months have the trumps, including donald trump jr., we don't hear from jared, saying there was no collusion. we never met with russian campaign officials. now we know they did. i got say trump's, in the same report, is mad at the lawyer. ivanka and jared are mad at reince priebus. that's not the issue. reince priebus and lawyers not the problem here. the problem are people close to trump who took meetings like this and lied about their connections and continued with donald trump sr to dismiss all talk of russian efforts to help the campaign as fake news as a hoax. we have a conspiracy. this may be the only one. we didn't know about this a week ago. everyone who keeps saying there is nothing there, robert mueller still investigating house and senate intelligence committee. committee still investigating and apparently people within the trump camp are leaking information to kill each other.
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>> josh, one of the ironies of someone like jared kushner getting in this kind of trouble is prior to him deciding he will go into the white house and run the world, his only interaction with government forums is tax returns and he didn't fill those out. he has an army who does that. he just signs his name once or twice a year. this form he filled out under the pains and penalty of perjury as they say in the government, is something he had no experience with. and if he had just stayed in new york, doing what he seems to know how to do, he would not be in legal trouble tonight. >> the form says right at the top, you're swearing under penalty of perjury. jared kushner has good lawyers. his lawyer is a senior official in the clinton administration. you would think at the time he filled out that form he received descent legal advice about how to go through his security clearance process.
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why leave your good life in new york in part of it is family. and part of it is that kushner real estate empire was having trouble. in particular this one major investment, 666 fifth a avenue, a skyscraper a if you blocks from here. when the kushners bought it in 2007. was the most expensive building ever created in the united states at least. most expensive because they overpaid for it. they've been struggling for years trying to get financing for it. so kushner would want to get involved because he would think that having government power would help him fix financial things with the family. >> well he is facing five years tonight. let's listen to what donald trump jr. said tonight about his decision to release the e-mails. i believe that's what we're going to hear. >> did you hand over any and all dock snmts. >> well, i will. i have said it publicly. i said it yesterday.
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more than happy to cooperate with everyone. i just want the proof to get out there. that's why i released stuff today. trying to drag out the story in all fairness. drip a little bit today, drip a little there. here it is. i'm more than happy to be transparent with it and cooperate with everyone. >> as far as you know, this is all of it. >> this everything p this is everything. >> david, your reaction it that? >> i would bet a fair amount of money lawrence, that this is not a truth he wanted out. he said, i'm happy to get the truth out. he said i only put out e-mails once the "new york times" informed him that today that they had e-mails. even when they referred to e-mails in previous reporting, he didn't rush to be transparent. and if he had, he could have put out these e-mails in any time if the last year or 13 months rather than deny there was anything, you know, to the allegations that the trump campaign had any contacts and interaction with russian officiales.
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even on tonight's softball interview with sean hannity, he just down playing connections that he and his family had to the people on the other side of the russian assembly. this is pure and simple. trying to surf up the best meal they can to the fox news audience. >> take another look at that piece of video where you just heard donald trump say that's everything. rewind your dvr if you have to. watch his eyes, watch his face when he says everything. judge, i make the world this promise tonight, that's not everything. >> it is interesting to me. i think it is fairly clear now that donald trump jr. will testify in front of at least one congressional committee. a lot of people will end up under other. will they testify at all? if when they were not engaged in political considerations and purely trying to figure out a legal strategy i'm sure most of their lawyers would tell them ton testify, take the fifth.
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but of course the trumps have this impulse to defend themselves and it would look bad if people who are swearing up or down wouldn't testify before various committees. i this that i will pose a significant problem. >> so donald trump sr can go out on fifth avenue and shoot someone and his voters will stay with him. but his kid can't take the fifth? come on. i think this kid can take the fifth and voters will stick with him. thank you both for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> sure. >> sure thing. >> coming up, trump biographer on this very difficult history. painful history to listen to. about donald trump and donald trump jr..
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donald trump was a junior in college when this father showed up at his dorm to take him to a baseball game. according to a witness there were quite a few students standing around trying to catch a glimpse of the famous dodd. don junior opened the door wearing a yankees jersey without spaying a word his father slapped him across the face knocking him to the floor. his father said put on a suit and meet me outside. and he closed the door. scott mehling era calamities of donald trump junior posted that story on facebook last year. the spoke person said the story is fools. but neither donald trump junior or senior sued for post-ing that story.
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the same post about donald trump jr. scott melker said i always felt terrible for him. donald trump jr. went a year without speaking to his father when his father put his father through the carrying on a affair with younger woman eagerly covered by toibed where trump was married to his donald trump jr.'s mother. the first mrs. trump. not speaking to his father might be a good idea now that both donald trumps have hired criminal defense lawyers to guide them through the investigation of their conduct durng the presidential campaign and the transition. trump biographer tim o'brien joins us next on the very troubled history of donald trump and donald trump jr. ♪
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it was such a nothing. there was nothing to tell. i mean i wouldn't have even remembered until we started scouring through the stuff. it was a wasted 20 minutes which was a shame. >> that's donald trump jr. on whether he spoke to his father about meeting with the russian attorney. the meeting has dominated our news. joined by tim o'brien executive editor of bloomberg true. donald trump jr. seems excited as you read the emails unfolding over a number of days about the
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russian information coming in. knowing these people as you do, what are the bes chances that donald trump jr. does not mention to his father that i've got a really important meeting coming up and i'm going to have paul there. i'm going to have jared there. we're getting russian information on hillary. >> that i'm not going to tell you a word about it, dad. >> i'm not telling you anything about it. >> even though you're just down the hall. i highly doubt he didn't tell him though he said he hasn't. however in the email today, one of the pieces i think that has drawn less scrutiny is the rob goldstone the sbmdary with the russian lawyer and trump junior says shall we tell your father about it this if we're going to rhona. rhona is rhona graff a gate deeper for the president for 25 years had her hard drive and hard drive are probably all going to be subpoenaable by robert mueller pursuing this. i think the emails exposed her to that. >> this is why we need you.
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who else who knows who rhona is in the email. we saw goldstone in the video we showed earlier. here is this guy, appears o are an outright nut. maybe a good show business manager who is knows here is a presidential campaign and doing business, putting its credibility on the line to do business with a guy like this. lining up meetings for them. >> as you know seasoned campaign advisers and participants when they get in kind of stuff over the transom, often either either ignore it or alert federal authorities. campaigns on both sides of the aisle. donald trump jr. didn't do that. in fact he actually escalated. invited paul manafort and jared kushner into the meeting because i think this is a family that's never done due dilgz. rolled by their own rules, they are not strategic thinkers, not long-term thinkers and very new to pliks now that's coming back to haunt them. >> what you're saying is forget new to politics.
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you're saying in business any don't do due dilgens. >> no. >> if a russians wants to send in someone talking about buying a apartment or building they'll have the meeting they won't do homework on that. >> we know this through donald trump senior's relationship with the bay rock group a felix sater. a career criminal with organized crime ties that donald trump didn't bling at doing business because it looked an opportunity to make money. >> talk about the relationship between father and son donald trump abdonald trump jr. under these conditions what is it like. >> i think donald trump , sr. is a shouter. i can't imagine he is not shouting tonight. maggie haberman had a good "new york times" story tonight about the infighting already going on in the white house. trump is turning tail it appears on his lawyer. >> the president's own lawyer. >> his own lawyer.
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and jared kushner is a suspect of playing his own card in between trump and kasowitz. meanwhile you got donald junior stirring the pot and the media waiting out there as the junk falls out of the white house. i imagine it's a very, very raw environment between the president and his son tonight. >> what about his son-in-law this jared was the person who donald trump seemed to believe was going to be the guiding line for all wise decisions made in the white house. >> well, again, wisdom borne from where? he is inferenced has a foreign policy poefrmt with no foreign policy experience he is going to fix the federal government with no federal government experience. all of them appear to be doing is talking poefrmt are portfolios and trying to use public policy opportunities. >> is the president going to wick up how much trouble jared has gotten them into. >> i don't know if all of them will ever wake up to the dire legal consequences. that's the issue here.
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>> well special prosecutor might wake them up. tim o'brien gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. the breaking news we are "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts now. >> breaking news we are covering tonight on the trumps and russia. the e-mails of donald trump jr. that show he's known for over a year that the russian government wanted to help his father's candidacy. and was offered damaging information on hillary clinton. to which he eagerly replied "i love it." the storm inside the white house described tonight as a category 5 hurricane. among our guests a key member of the senate intelligence committee, a trump campaign adviser, and a former watergate prosecutor as the 11th hour gets under way. good evening once again from our headquarters here in new york. day 173 of the trump administration. today came a big change. a string of e-mails


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