tv Meet the Press MSNBC July 3, 2017 1:00am-2:01am PDT
this sunday obamacare repeal and replace is on life support as republicans peel away. >> the bill needs a lot more than tweaking or tinkering around the edges. it needs a major overhaul. >> i didn't come here to hurt people. >> and if republicans can't pass their bill -- >> the markets will continue to collapse and we'll have to sit down with senator schumer. >> my guests this morning, health and human services tom price and two senators who say a bipartisan bill might not be such a bad idea, democrat tom carper and republican bill cassidy. plus, dignity of the office. that presidential tweet storm aimed at two msabc anchors.
>> i'm appalled. this is the president of the united states. you don't attack women. >> reporter: why does the president seem more interested in fighting the media than fighting for his legislative priorities? and new reporting that could suggest the first real link between russians and the trump campaign. joining me for inside analysis are hugh hewitt, host on the salem radio network, nbc capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, malcolm gladwell and katty kay. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning and a happy july fourth weekend to everybody. and one day late, how about a happy canada day to our friends watching from over the border. who knew health care could be so complicated? mitch mcconnell had a simple
plan, draft a republican only repeal and replace bill, do it behind closed doors, pass it quickly before the opposition could get organized. then go home for the fourth of july holiday with the party having made good on a key campaign promise. well, one by one republican senators began to announce their opposition to the bill helped along by a budget analysis that said 22 million fewer people would wind up being covered and that projected medicaid spending would fall 35% over the next 20 years. then president trump made life more complicated for mcconnell by suggesting repealing now and replacing later. last night in an event honoring veterans here in washington, the president focused on attacking the media, not on health care. >> the fake media is trying to silence us. but we will not let them. because the people know the truth. the fake media tried to stop us from going to the white house,
but i'm president and they're not. >> throw in mr. trump's tweet storm against two msnbc anchors which further complicated matters and mcconnell was left with the task of trying to save the bill by himself, which is now on life support. >> are we going to get to 50 votes for health care by tomorrow? is that a no? >> reporter: republican members of congress may have left washington, but they can't escape questions on their floundering efforts to pass a health care bill. >> vote no! vote no! >> on wednesday the president promised -- >> health care is working along very well. we could have a big surprise with a great health care package. >> but by friday, president trump appeared to acknowledge that mcconnell doesn't have the votes, tweeting this. if republican senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately repeal and then replace at a later date.
that threw a wrench into negotiations with conservatives who are desperate for a plan b that does not include the democrats. >> i want repeal and i want replace. if we can do those two together in one legislative package, i'm good with that. if we're going to fail at that, we should separate the two. we made a promise to repeal obamacare, and we should keep our promises. >> mcconnell quickly suppressed that idea but said, we're going to stick to that path, pointedly adding, it's not easy making america great again, is it? repealing without replacing it would complicate efforts to move forward if they want to avoid a democratic filibuster. what's more, mr. trump previously said that strategy was unacceptable. >> we're not going to have like a two-day period and we're not going to have a two-year period where there's nothing. it will be repealed and replaced. >> reporter: then there's the fact that an outright repeal likely has even less support than the current senate legislation.
>> i would be fine with that. i don't think we have the votes in the senate to pass that. >> the legislative hail marys come as the existing senate bill is hardening. this week some republicans have cautiously suggested bipartisanship as a last resort. >> the best outcome, i still think, would be a bipartisan bill. >> i wish we were doing this on a bipartisan basis. >> if for some reason it fails, then the floodgates would probably open to reach a bipartisan compromiscompromise. >> with the senate bill on life support, president trump further complicated the process by spending half the week attacking host meika brzezinski trying to support a bill. >> you're president of the united states of america, the greatest country on earth. you have an obligation to be above this. >> joining me now is health and human services tom price. mr. price, welcome back to "meet
the press." >> good morning, chuck. happy independence day weekend. >> absolutely, and same to you. let me start with where the add administration is right now on this health care bill, the president suggesting repeal now, replace later. is that your official stance now? is that an acknowledgment that the senate bill is essentially unworkable as it stands? >> no, we don't think so. we think leader mcconnell and his senators within the senate are working to try to get this piece of legislation on track. their conversations are ongoing as we speak, so we look forward to hopefully them coming back after this fourth of july recess and getting the work done. >> okay. what changes need to be made that you will accept? is it more opioid funding? is that what it's going to do to pass this? is it to scale back the proposed reduction in medicaid spending? what is it that you're comfortable with, that the
president is comfortable with that you would like to see in the senate bill? >> there are three specific areas that are being worked on currently. one is the medicaid issue. we want to make certain that medicaid is a program that can survive. right now we've got a third of physicians in this land who won't see medicaid patients. that means the program is actually failing many, many patients and we need to fix that, so we need to make it so that those individuals, if they transition from medicaid, that nobody falls through the cracks. that gets us to the second issue, which is making certain that folks who want coverage that they're able to select the kind of coverage that's right for them and their families, not that washington forces them to buy. then the third area, as you mentioned, is the whole issue of the opioid crisis. the president is adamant about making certain that we address this issue. we had 52,000 overdose deaths in 2013, 33,000 of those from opioids. the numbers today are worse than that. the president has told us and he's got a commission headed by governor christie to make certain we address this issue in
a way that turns those numbers in the right direction. >> you said something to another panelist that's going to be on my show today, hugh hewitt. he was suggesting more funding to deal with the opioid crisis, and you were a little skeptical. you said, look, i believe as well that more resources are necessary but they need to be done in a way that provides for efrd-based treatment and examination of the crisis. we don't need to be throwing money at this issue. so i'm guessing you don't like the way mitch mcconnell is just throwing dai-- is that what you suggesting, that looks like a buy-off of senators that are worried about it? >> no, not at all. in the past ten years, we've seen overdose deaths in this country spike to a high degree. the numbers are no better now. that should tell anybody who is sober and looking at this situation is what we're doing right now is not working. therefore, what we need to do is address in a strategic way, in a logical way, in a methodical
way, evidence-based programs that can attack this scourge of opioid deaths across this land. we don't need to be throwing money at it to say we're throwing money in there. we need to identify what's working and throw money at what's working. >> what you're saying is the united states is not prepared to say what money is necessary. do you object to this? because if you don't have the evidence yet of what exactly is working and what's not, are you suggesting that the senate needs to hold some hearings on this before they decide to throw money at this problem? >> no, there is a lot of what works that is actually known through the department of health and human service, through sansa substance abuse, through national health, through cdc. there is a lot that's known about what does work. when the resources are provided by the congress of the united states, those moneys need to go
to those programs that are actually successful in mitigating the challenge of the opioid crisis and overdoses. >> i want to go to the larger issue here which is the cost of health insurance particularly with older americans with preexisting conditions. aarp came out with their analysis, and they note because older americans could now be charged up to five times as much as younger people rather than a cap at three times as much under the current law, the aarp is calling that an age tax, that basically the older you are, the more you're going to end up paying in premiums. do you agree with their analysis? >> no, i don't at all, and i think that brings us to the point of where are we doing any of this in the first place? the fact of the matter is premiums are up, enrollments are down. insurers are leaving the market and that's before president trump was sworn in. the fact of the matter is it's only gotten worse since then because there hasn't been action. so what we're trying to do is to bring all of those prices down, everybody. premiums in this nation have
doubled over the past four years, up an average of $3,000 for the average family. that's a tax on everybody. what we want to do is bring all of those prices down so that seniors, young people, folks in middle age, folks who are naming their coverage by their employer, all of those costs come down. >> but not a single analysis, whether it's budget office or third party groups, have mentioned this is somehow going to make premiums come down for older americans. while premiums may come down for younger americans, for older americans with preexisting conditions, these premiums are going to go up. there is not a single analysis that says otherwise. >> that's because they don't look at the entire plan. the entire plan includes not just this piece of legislation, which is a significant piece, but it's not the entire plan. the other pieces of legislation that provide for increase in competition and increase in choices in the insurance market, and then all of the things that
we're doing at the department of health and human services right now as we speak to make certain that we're turning back the tide of all of the rules and regulations that were put in place previously that decreased choices, that increased costs, all of those things. if you look at it in its totality, and nobody is looking at it in its totality, we'll bring down premiums, we'll increase coverage, we'll increase choice and i believe we'll increase the quality of care for this nation. >> they can only examine legislation that's in front of them, not futupotential future legislation which is yet to be fully introduced. let me ask you about the president's behavior over the last week. not only has he unloaded on cable news hosts including folks that i work with, but he seems to not be trying to be helpful on health care publicly. last night he holds a rally of sorts. didn't talk about health care. he spent most of his time tweeting about anything but
health care. is the president too distracted here to campaign about health care? >> absolutely not. the president has held multiple meetings within the white house itself, with physicians, with small business groups, with other folks who have been harmed by obamacare, with patients, individual stakeholders across this land who have told him and tell us repeatedly that the current system is collapsing. that's bwhat the president talk about. it's in the area where obamacare is in place, where aca is in place. remember, premiums are up, enrollment down, ensures people looef leaving across this nation before the president came into office. >> many people in the senate condemned the personal attack on mika brzezinski and attacking on her looks. you had lindsey graham saying it was beneath the office. ben sass, this isn't normal. susan collins begging, this has to stop. lisa murkowski begging, this has
to stop. does his behavior bother you? >> what i'm concentrated on is the job he's gifrven me, and th is to make sure we fulfill the mission of the department of health and human services and that is the health of the american people. there is a whole array of activities we're undertaking. one of them is this piece of legislation in the senate right now, but my job is consumed with making sure we fulfill the mission of the department. >> i'm asking as a father, if your son tweeted to a woman like that, what would you say to him? >> chuck, this is really remarkable. we have incredible challenges across this nation, incredible challenges around the world. the challenge i've been given is to address the health care issues, and your program, a program with the incredible history of "meet the press n," d that's what you want to talk about? the american people want to talk about -- >> mr. secretary, with all due respect, you're blaming me for what the president of the united states has spent his entire week focused on? >> no.
listen to me. with all due respect. the american people are concerned about a health care system that is not providing choices, where pleem yuremiums going up, where the insurance companies are vacating markets across this land. that's what they want us to concentrate on and fix, and that's what i and the president are working on. >> why isn't the president as devoted to this as you are? >> i think that he is, absolutely. the fact of the matter is that he can do more than one thing at a time, and the challenge that he's put before us at the department of health and human services is to make certain that we not only just address the issue of this health care piece of legislation but address the united states' role in the world as it relates to pandemic influenza, to address the united states' role in the world as it relates to research and development, to make certain we're on the cutting edge of incredible innovation that's available to decrease human suffering, not just in the united states but around the world. that's the challenge that he's given to us. >> okay. secretary price, i don't think a lot of people envy sometimes the
position the president puts you in. i understand that. thanks for coming on. i appreciate it. >> thank you. as we've said, the repeal and replace bill has been written entirely by republicans. but if the bill fails, an increasing number of senators have suggested that a bipartisan bill might be the only option left. this week i sat down with two senators, a democrat, tom carper of delaware, and republican bill cassidy of louisiana and asked them what it would take for the two parties to come together on health care. >> what's missing here is the chance to do what i call regular order, and there is actually great value if you introduce a bill, we have some time to read it, we actually have a chance to hold hearings, have discussions, to talk to the cbo director and ask what the implications are. if we go through that process and have a chance to answer to members in the committee, we could help repeal that plan. >> what are the buttons hit? i think i have two, but mr. cassidy, i don't think your side thinks we're ready to hit the button just yet.
>> i agree with some of what tom said, i disagree with other. we need governors involved. i for one have called governors on both sides of the aisle, including my own, including those from other states of the susan collins and i for the republicans put forth something called the patient freedom act which was a concerted effort to reach across the aisle. gail lewinsky who was h.w. bush's assistant, if you will. she said, listen, if he won't sign on to a bill in which they get to keep exactly what they have now with a 5 cent hair ccu they're not serious about working with others. we heard them speaking about how senator schumer got all eight senators in line, they can cooperate, et cetera. until they decide they're in line with signing onto the patient freedom act which allows the blue state to do what they're doing now and a red state to do something different, i'm not sure we're ready for
bipartisanship. >> what do you say to that? >> this is a great opportunity to pause to say what is it in the affordable care act that we need to fix? >> i guess my frustration watching this, i sometimes look at this and say, okay, you're arguing over the details of the same structure. there are times -- and you guys sound like you're agreeing more than you disagree. >> i think we do. >> but the politics are getting in the way. maybe democrats don't want trump to get a victory, maybe the republicans don't want obama to get a victory. i know that sounds petty, but it seems like that's what it comes down to. >> if tell dell wants delaware with status quo, that should be okay with what the people of delaware decide, but if louisiana says we can't afford 20, 30, $40,000 premiums on the individual market, let us do
something different. it shouldn't be for us to decide, it should be for the people of that state to decide, and if you've seen one medicaid program, you've seen one medicaid program. i would like it if you've seen one medicaid program to make sure everybody has insurance, you've seen one medicaid program to make sure everybody has insurance. >> we're talking about medicaid, and i sort of want to close out the conversation this way. is medicaid going to be the default insurance option for folks that can't get any other insurance at this point? is this the default in rural america at this point? >> when i was 29 years old right out of the navy, i got to be state treasurer. i got elected because nobody else wanted to run. when i got elected, i thought medicaid was insurance for poor women with children. >> that was the stereo type of what it was. >> that's not what it is today. it's for our mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles and cousins. too many of them are veterans. for us to walk away from that
obligation to veterans and other people, i don't think we want to do that. are there ways to provide care through medicaid in more cost-effective ways? yes. in many states we have private insurance who run managed care plans in order to hold down costs. >> senator, i feel like that's the fundamental debate inside your conference. you have said, hey, we have to get over this idea that health care is a right, not a privilege. >> congress has already established that. >> that's what you've said, but not everybody in your party believers that. it seems to me medicaid is the sticking point. not every republican is comfortable that medicaid is more than just helping out the poor. >> i don't mind, in fact i would prefer, that people at the upper end of medicaid go to private insurance. medicaid can become a barrier to seeking self-improvement because you hate to take a higher paying job because you lose medicaid. i would prefer to combine, say, the upper limit of medicare population with the individual market. when somebody makes more money, they make more money. they're not afraid of hitting a cliff where they fall off.
so there's disincentives to work and even attack a family on medicaid. ideally people go on private insurance. >> how hard does the president make this when he pops off on twitter, for instance, and it's beyond offensive? does that not complicate your goal here which is trying to work with the other side? >> our focus cannot be on the tweet. our focus has to be on that kitchen table family paying 20, 30 and $40,000 for their premiums, wondering how they're going to make ends meet. their child might be addicted to opioids. we in washington, we in the country cannot be focused on tweets, we have to be focused on answering that family's problems. and i get so frustrated when we get focused on tweets. we need to think about these families with this incredible human need. >> why aren't you frustrated with the president? >> because if you think about what he's saying on health care, he actually wants something better. >> but you say you're frustrated on the tweets.
it's the president tweeting. >> but the president doesn't make my life. i'm a conservative. i wake up in the morning and read about the lsu tigers, i don't read about the president's tweets. i think we need to have more of a focus on that family, not on the president's tweets. >> does the president make it harder for democrats to work with the other side? >> he makes it harder for himself. the most important ingredient in any law in state, government, school or whatever always is leadership. i've been trained as a leader since a 12-year-old boy scout, naval officer for 25 years, and this man has been trained as a leader, too. one of the things they thought us early on in the navy is treat other people the way you want to be treated. they taught us that leaders don't build themselves up by pushing other people down, when things go well, give others the credit. everything i was trained as a leader. this man is none of those things. is none of those things. i look at it and i just shake my head. it's got to be harder for him to
recruit people, come work for him. they're having a terrible time filling positions. they said, we're just not getting names. out of 600 positions, i think they've gotten 100 names. that's because people in part don't want to work for him. >> thank you for your time. happy fourth of july. >> to you as well. later in the broadcast, did we just see the first link between russian hacking and the trump campaign? also, the president's latest tweet storms and his continuing war on the media. many expected or hoped that the presidency would change donald i love you so much, that's why i bought six of you for when you stretch out. i want you to stay this bright blue forever, that's why you'll stay in this drawer forever. i can't live without you, and that's why i'll never ever wash you. protect your clothes from stretching, fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. it smooths and strengthens fibers to protect clothes from the damage of the wash.
so your favorite clothes stay your favorite clothes. downy fabric conditioner. be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis.
before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®.
the future isn't silver suits anit's right now.s, think about it. we can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. find love anywhere. he's cute. and buy things from, well, everywhere. how? because our phones have evolved. so isn't it time our networks did too? introducing america's largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. it's a new kind of network. xfinity mobile. welcome to hugh hewitt, host of salem network and now host of his own show on msnbc. anchor katty kay, nbc news kasie hunt and eugene robertson. welcome all. i want to get specific on health
care. kasie, with you that is this is your beat. when the senators come back a week from tomorrow, what's the timeline and what happens? >> i think it would be possible something happens the week after they come back because they're exhausted from the fourth. i think mitch mcconnell, the senate majority leader, he's pretty tired on being stuck on this issue of having it hang out there, not being able to agree. every news cycle gets more difficult for him. what has happened with dean heller, a key member. remember, his minority very slim. allies at the white house went after him. that caused a real rift between mcconnell and the white house. i think all of those things will be factors as this plays out. >> guys, the "washington post" did an interesting analysis of the president and his messaging. he did not talk about health care last night at his rally. he's been tweeting about anything except having to do with health care. look at these stats of the
different -- the month of june each one was themed out and we have this great graphic here. so during the first week of june, infrastructure week, 80% of his tweets were not about infrastructure week. then you had the next week, not a single one about it. then technology week, not a single tweet about technology, and energy, nothing about energy. if you add in health care, then only 76% of his tweets were off message. hugh hewitt, without a president helping, mitch mcconnell is by himself on this right now. >> i know there are ongoing conversations between the white house and some senators about what they can deliver, but mitch mcconnell is on his own. i'm one of the optimists that thinks he will get to 50 without susan collins and rand paul, that there are fiction that go to the crisis in rural america. ohio has 19 counties without any provider, nevada has 14. they're not large population centers but it's a crisis in rural america. the senate really doesn't have
an option not to repair the system. it's just they're going to have to move towards the rob portman solution as opposed to the pat toomey solution, and we have to do that. >> interesting. so he moves the bill to the middle. >> to the middle. at some point i think there probably has to be a kind of explicit acknowledgment that the basic structure of obamacare is going to stay and the basic thesis of obamacare, which is that health care is a right, not a privilege, is implanted in american society, is not going away and can't be taken away by a snap of the fingers or a passing of a bill. >> he told you about the president. it's not that he's not helping them, he's actively hurting them, even as he put on the table that you can repeal andri now and replace at a later date. if there is a strategy behind it, he reminds senators that they called on this for seven years, and if they can't come up
with a replacement, at least they have to repeal. american public opinion is moving in favor of more government in health care, not less government in health care. >> the point you were making in your interview with cassidy and carper is absolutely true. the middle of the united states senate, they all agree on what largely needs to be done. there is, in fact, a bipartisan consensus around a set of insurance reforms to fix obamacare. the problem is it's called obamacare. what they're trying to pass is called trumpcare and nobody can get over that. >> it's a deeper philosophical deal. when you were talking with dr. price, endowment funding for opioid crisis allows the states to fix their solutions over time rather than one-time spending. ted cruz's idea which calls for states to have one compliant plan, there are federal solutions available, which is why i think we'll get to 50. >> mcconnell's folks are worried that the cruz poll, when they score it, that it will drive a
steak for the preexisting argument, that it's a huge problem. >> it's showing him that analysis, the idea that they show it to the cbo, and if you make these changes to please ted cruz, it's not going to be there. >> there actually is a majority in the senate that could get together, pass a bill and pass it. they can't agree on some philosophical differences, but what's written on the paper would be the same. >> it wouldn't get through the house. this is the problem. >> they would have to go call nancy pelosi and ask for her help, but that's -- >> it goes back to our original point. >> it isn't the type of bill anybody is going to sign onto. >> if this does fail, and the republicans can't do this alone, what does the next month look like on health care? is it a small deal of just sort of propping up the insurance markets and hhs says, okay, we'll give you some risk
insurance, essentially? >> i think the fire rages in the insurance markets for months to come in that there will be disasters, real human disasters, if they do not get to 50. that's why i think they have to get to 50 because they will not be able to connect. >> and if you repeal and not replace, the more confusion you'll get in the insurance markets. >> i kind of disagree, i think there will be more disasters in the insurance market. the republican party has had its hands around the throat of the affordable care act for seven years, it hasn't died, but it's not doing too well now. i think they'll have to do something. >> i smell a new version of the doc fix. >> something like that, chuck. there's been so much uncertainty, basically the only supporters outside this bill have been a handful of health insurers who say, look, this bill will at least stabilize our individual market. i do think we're at the point where the uncertainty is so great, they'll be forced to do that. later in the broadcast on this july fourth weekend,
malcolm gladwell stops by and he fou fou focuses on on you americans '. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and.
olay regenersit shatters livthe competitionype? big hype. big price. big deal. olay regenerist hydrates skin better than creams costing over $100, $200 and even $400. for skin that looks younger than it should. fact check this ad in good housekeeping. olay regenerist. ageless. now, boost your regimen with olay regenerist concentrate.
and we're back. data download time. tlar l there are a lot of things that divide us as americans these days, fundamental issues like where we're headed as a country. in a recent poll, americans were split on just that question. is america in a state of decline, yes or no? 52% said yes, 44% said no. politics, of course, plays a huge role in how you view that question. among those who voted for donald trump, 43% said the country was in a state of decline, but a majority of those trump voters said it was not. those numbers flipped if you were a hillary clinton voter. 59% of clinton voters say the country is in a state of decline, 38% said it's not. but folks, there is more to the story than just numbers, there is actual people. we went down to the mall to talk to visitors who came to the nation's capitol for the fourth of july weekend, and we asked them not what divides us but what they think brings us
together. >> americans embrace one another. >> the opportunities i've been able to have as a single mom raising two kids. i don't think i could have come as far as i have anywhere else. >> i have the pree dom to vote as a woman, i have the freedom to be able to do other things in some countries women can't do. >> we have the prfreedom to mak choices and the consequences of those choices and benefits of the same. >> i think we are stronger when we work as a team. >> we are from so many different parts of the world. >> freedom of religion, freedom of speech. >> we can protest the diversity of cultures and different kinds of backgrounds. >> because of america's past and believing in its future, i have hope. >> we spent a lot of time on the issues that divide us, but we don't spend a lot of time on what makes us the same or similar. it's actually a conversation i'm going to have later in the show. but when we come back, it's but when we come back, it's e-mail hacking and the my sweetheart's gone sayonara.
that may be a link of steven smith who tried to obtain e-mails that he believed may have come from hillary clinton's server from russians. steve bannon, kellyanne conway, sam clovis and of course fired national security adviser mike flynn. smith implied that he was working with flynn and flynn's son. by the way, smith died shortly after speaking to the wall street journal. he was 81 years old at his death there, but still, katty kay, a first time there has been an explicit, potential connection between somebody who was willing to work with the russians to do whatever they could to get something damaging on hillary clinton. >> that's why there's been a lot of attention to this story because if it all pans out, it would suggest -- it would be the first suggestion that there may have been some form of
collusion. the source of this story, a former british intelligence officer, has also come out and corroborated his part in the story. what we don't know is whether peter smith was talking up his relationship with the trump peopl people. conway and bannon have both come out ask denied any of the links. we haven't heard from clovis on this. there is still questions on how tight they were. >> ron tate wrote this long sort of explanatory post on the website lawfare, and he writes this. at the time i got hired to collude with the russians. it is no overstatement to say that my conversations with smith shocked me. given the amount of media attention given at the time, to me it seemed really wrong. they had a reckless lack of interest in whether the e-mails came from a russian cutout. they made it quite clear to me
it made no difference to them who hacked the e-mails, only that the e-mails be found and made public before the election. hugh hewitt? >> before now, there has been no evidence of collusion. it changes it because it gives a path to collusion. i do think it adds -- it's smoke. >> it's smoke and there's a gun, we just don't know if the smoke and the gun -- >> and they put out do not destroy memos to everyone and flynn will be questioned about this, and if there is a connection between smith and flynn, there is a path to collusion. but there is no collusion evidence yet. >> exactly, but i think what this does is it illustrates the fact that people who have said, oh, there is no collusion, nothing to see here, let's move on. in fact, there is an investigation that's going on, and there is a lot of smoke, and, you know, the trump side speaks as if it has been proved that there was no collusion. in fact, it is just being investigated. again, there is no smoke. it may not pan out, it may not
be anything. >> it does give the case for the investigation. >> i think one of the questions it's going to raise on the hill, too, is the president was so defensive of mike flynn. there was a suggestion in the journal's story that, look, this may have been flynn operating under his own auspices, is may not have been in his role connected to the campaign. >> not only did they deny a link, they suggested if there was a link, he acted on his own. >> if you go back and watch jim comey's testimony, for example, significant because the president asked him to back off michael flynn. i think there is a lot of confusion, especially among senators i talked to privately, why the president was so devoted to mike flynn, and i think that could be important. >> this makes it very necessary for the president not to do anything regarding mueller other than give him the resources to do his investigation. he cannot remove him, he cannot fire him, you have to trust him, and everybody in the city does. he has a reputation for complete integrity. you cannot remove robert
mueller. >> that is -- he is the central character now, mike flynn. if you're in the trump white house, you have to be concerned. he might cut a deal. >> the question about mike flynn is there was some sense of loyalty because the president was the only person who stood by him during the course of the campaign. i think this story, really for the first time, gives weight to the countertheory which is that michael flynn may have something and the president is nervous about that and what would he be talking to mike flynn about. >> everybody cuts a deal. if they squeeze hard enough, everybody cuts a deal. >> he's vulnerable on this issue of turkey where he may have violated some law. and again, he's no longer with us. that's another odd part of the story. we're going to take a quick break here. just this morning, president trump escalated his war on the
let me show it to you. >> all you have to do is sign up. >> it is video of then donald trump in a little wwe sketch back in the day. people have seen this a lot. but the person he's, quote, wrestling there is -- they put the cnn face on there. hugh hewitt, we're beyond fl flabbergasted this morning. >> i am. most of the media is center left and most of the country is center right. combativeness towards the media plays well. cruelty does not. and when the president crosses the line between combativeness into cruelty, he loses some of his base. yesterday afternoon at 5:00 mass, everybody there is probably leaning towards trump and everybody is appalled at cruelty. that is the line he's got to measure in. >> i'll just say the standard thing i say about so many shows.
these are not tweets, these are official communications from the president of the united states. >> the cruelty aspect. i guess he's back on trashing cnn which inexplicably the "washington post" reported that some aides were upset that the president picked a fight with mika brzezinski because it was takingng away from what they fe was a successful fight with cnn. >> i guess we've never consumed something like this -- yes, when that video was originally filmed, he was an entertainer. that's what he was doing then, and now he's the president of the united states. the reality is the media, okay, they've used the logo in that case, cnn, but is made up of people. every single day i go up to capitol hill, i ask questions of people. yes, i represent nbc news every day. >> you're a three-dimensional figure? >> i am. that's what makes that video, i think, so are the of strirt of . >> and the fact we had sarah huckabee sanders coming out and
saying the president has never condoned or encouraged or promoted violence. that is exactly what he's just done. >> i think he would argue that he's promoting fake violence because it is wrestling. >> i think he would say i'm not presidential, but i'm modern day presidential. didn't he say that in a tweet? >> i went to work for richard nixon at exile in '22. f everything gets exiled. my fascinating interview with mammogram koh i love you so much, that's why i bought six of you for when you stretch out. i want you to stay this bright blue forever, that's why you'll stay in this drawer forever. i can't live without you, and that's why i'll never ever wash you. protect your clothes from stretching, fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner.
not at night. tempur-pedic breeze is now cooler than ever. to help you fall asleep faster... ...stay asleep longer... ...and wake up feeling refreshed. ♪ nothing performs like a tempur-pedic, and our july 4th event is the perfect time to buy one. save up to $500 on select tempur-breeze® mattress sets. find your exclusive breeze retailer at tempurpedic.com it delivers a whole mouth clean with a less intense taste. zero alcohol™. so it has the bad breath germ-killing power of this... [rock music] with the lighter feel... of this. [classical music] for a whole mouth clean
with a less intense taste... ahhh. try listerine® zero alcohol™. also try listerine® pocketpaks for fresh breath on the go. >> announcer: "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. finally on this fourth of july, we're going to turn to a canadian for some insight into who we are as americans and how we approach our problems. the writer malcolm gladwell now hosts eat norm usually popular podcast revisionist history which makes viewers think about the past that are misunderstood. we discussed the lack of creative thinking in american politics, something that's become an obstacle to solving problems like our american health care system. >> so 50, 60 years canada has
had single payer. the reason canada has single payer is canadians had a conversation amongst themselves many, many years ago and they asked a simple question which is, what do we want from our health care? they came to the answer that what we want is a system that covers everyone, and what that means is we're willing to give up choice, we're willing to give up the most high-tech solutions to various medical problems. we're not going to have expensive, shiny hospitals. basically they sat down and figured out what their priorities were. what always strikes me about american discussions, and i think this may be one of the root causes of the stalemate in washington right now is nobody ever has that conversation. i can't figure out what people want. it seems to be that every party to the health care discussion wants something different and those things are all incompatible. you can't want to curb the cost spiral and simultaneously have access to the newest drugs and
simultaneously have patient choice and simultaneously -- you know, these are mutually contradictory options. so i think we should take a period and a timeout and say, is it possible for us to agree on what we think the goal of our health care system is? and maybe out of that conversation you can have kind of a clear direction to a policy solution. >> with yet another drama-filled week having to do with his tweeting and some offensive tweeting. >> yes. >> but you said something very interesting in a canadian interview, literally, i think it was the day before the election about why he doesn't pay a penalty for his offensiveness. and you said, so to the extent he continues to be a bore and a pig, he satisfies the criteria -- that criteria, right, meaning authenticity. it is the very fact he is so offensive that generates
enthusiasm among his followers, because essentially you're saying being offensive is authentic. >> yeah. the cardinal rule of politics that's always struck me is -- i'm the millionth person to say this, you have to be true to yourself so people have an image from you. you get penalized from deviating from their expectations of who you are and what you stand for. he from vet beginnithe very beg made it very plain that what he stands for a authenticity. he's not someone who gets caught up in political correctness, he's someone who speaks from his gut, right? so if you have an expectation that someone is that kind of authentic character, you look on, you see these kinds of tweets very differently. they are expressions of something that you understood and already accepted about that person. >> finally, i want to pick up on a theme. it has nothing to do with your episode 2, but it was a great
quote at the beginning. this was an unusual case for you because you said don't take a side. is that a problem in our tribal politics that we're now in? is it we strive to take sides too much? >> maybe. the reason to step away from taking sides in immediate discussion is it allows you to reflect on the larger questions, maybe unanswerable questions, that are raised by an actor or situation. i think we should indulge a lot more in those larger questions, because i suspect we have a good deal more agreement on the larger question. as the outsider, the thing about american society that's always baffled me is americans love nothing more than accentuating their differences, where i come from a culture in canada is we celebrate all we have in common, even when we don't have anything in common. we love talking about we're canadians, we're all in this
together, we're all the same in the end. americans are all the same in the end but you libke to preten you're not. i don't think it's that hard of getting back to that position in understanding how similar you all are. >> see, we're all more similar than we're not. thank you, malcolm. try his it will make you think. this is our own "meet the press," 1947. my guest this week, a more extended version of that interview. that's all we have today. thanks for watching. have a tremendous fourth of july holiday. remember all those freedoms we enjoy even when we use those freedoms to attack each other. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press". facebook page. sponsored by boeing.
president trump's royal rumble against the media continues. this time a video wrestling with a man with a cnn logo on his face and it has many asking what's next >> the white house continues its push for health care reform while lawmakers are on break. later new jersey beaches closed to the public because of a statewide shutdown but not from governor chris christie. ♪ good morning, everyone. it's monday, july 3rd. president donald trump continue food cuss his attention on