tv MSNBC Live MSNBC December 17, 2016 9:00am-10:01am PST
with toothpaste or plain water.an their dentures and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture, and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. that's why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. good day. i'm sheinelle jones in new york at msnbc world headquarters. high noon in the east, 9:00 out west. here's what's happening. the u.s./china standoff over a drone seems to be intensifying. donald trump takes to twitter over the drone situation. we'll tell you what he has tweeted this morning and how it fits into the incident. plus --
>> what i can tell you is that the intelligence that i've seen gives me great confidence in their assessment that the russians carried out this hack. >> blame it on the russians. president obama talks about hacking and the election. reaction from the former head of the senate intel committee ahead. wintry blast. battling cold and snow across the country. where is it headed next. donald trump dipping a toe into international waters this morning, calling china's seizure of a u.s. navy drone undid he say presented. but last night in florida, trump describing what he felt as he watched the returns come in on november 8th. >> as they tell all of us for months, you cannot break the blue. so what happens is -- not only did we break it, we shattered the hell out of it, right? the map is bloody, so red, so
beautiful. remember the map? when they showed it? there was a lot of blue. that blue got knocked to hell, i'll tell you that. >> earlier in the day, president obama held his final year-end press conference and explained his response to russia's election interference. when rumors first cropped up months ago. >> early september, when i saw president putin in china, i felt that the most effective way to ensure that that didn't happen was to talk to him directly. and tell him to cut it out. there were going to be some serious consequences if he did. meeting with campaign donors in new york, hillary clinton also had russia on the brain. in her view, the conflict was far more personal. >> we have to recognize that as the latest reports made clear, vladimir putin himself directed the covert cyber attacks against
our electoral system, against our democracy. apparently because he has personal feelings against me. >> now to the seizure of a u.s. underwater drone by china earlier this week. in the south china sea. chinese officials now saying they have been in touch with the u.s. about returning it. nbc's hans nichols at the white house with more. hans, what more do we know? >> we know that the official diplomatic channels have been opened, according to the chinese side of this and the pentagon's version of events. the pentagon as follows. this is a clearly marked glider, which is to say an underwater weather monitoring drone. it was seized. a clear seizure. that is a big deal and in terms of the united states navy, what isn't a big deal and why we haven't heard that much coming back more recently is because it wasn't classified. so you have to weigh those two things. and a key question from both the
white house and pentagon is the intent of the chinese. was this directed by beijing, or was this simply a reckless, careless act by what we have heard is an unprofessional move by potentially an unprofessional navy? if it was just carelessness, look for the diplomatic channels to soothe this out. if it's something more, you could see a bigger and more forceful response from the u.s. sheinelle? >> thank you, hands. juggling two big stories here. president obama in hawaii coming off his final news conference as president. much of it centered on allegations of russian meddling with the u.s. election. what stood out to you? >> reporter: two things. one, the tone of the president. a defensive president the entire way. and then the second part, he is really making this distinction on the russian issue on whether or not there is some interference in terms of hacking into e-mails and whether or not the actual election process on the election day was hacked. he seemed to be pretty clear, it wasn't hacked there, and they were successful.
still, they're mulling a response and you listen to the president closely. he had a subtle hint, force is to come. >> our goal continues to be to send a clear message to russia or others not to do this to us. because we can do stuff to you. but it is also important for us to do that in a thoughtful, methodical way. some of it we do publicly. some of it we will do in a way that they know, but not everybody will. >> reporter: i should characterize, the force doesn't necessarily mean a forceful response. it means some sort of response, potentially a cyber response before barack obama leaves office. sheinelle? >> a lot of people waiting to see what happens. hans nichols, thank you. mobile, alabama, donald trump will hold the final rally of his thank you tour. nbc's kelly o'donnell is there. what's the latest from the trump camp today? >> reporter: well, good to be
with you, sheinelle. a sound check going on in mobile, alabama, the last of the thank you tours for the year. but donald trump seemed to leave open the possibility of doing more of this in january. today what we expect is that he will thank voters, of course, but also kind of run the gamut of his domestic and foreign policy ideas and a little bit of kind of the flashbacks of the campaign, reliving some of those moments. especially election night. that's been what we have seen. he has not talked about the russian hack or vladimir putin's role or what president obama had to say about it. but he did sort of give us the sense from the audience that there was that time in the campaign when he was particularly hard on hillary clinton, and so were many of his supporters. and he does suggest things are different now. so what we're hearing from the president-elect is this rift with supporters and a crowd setting that has to do with one of the chants that was used against hillary clinton and how things are different. here's a sample of that from his orlando, florida, eventuality
last night. eventuality. >> oh, that's so terrible. so here's what i noticed. four weeks ago, just prior to -- and always prior to -- you people were vicious, violent, screaming -- where's the wall! we want the wall. now you're laid back, you're cool, you're mellow, right? you're basking in the glory of victory. and we're already getting to work. >> reporter: okay. bear with me here. trump himself is not wanting to refer to hillary clinton in some of the same ways he did as a candidate. he's not the one saying "lock her up." but when his crowds do it, whether nostalgic for the campaign going by or a feeling, he seems to stoke it a bit and
makes that distinction that now, post election, things will be somewhat different. what we are not seeing is a big turn toward a more presidential tone. he is still having a lot of fun with these crowds and expects he'll have a fairly good turnout today. now this is not one of the states that was a nail-biter on election night. alabama, deeply red, always predicted to be in the trump column. but it happens to be home of jeff sessions, first senator who endorsed donald trump, and his pick for attorney general. so expect to see jeff sessions and some talk about the future trump cabinet at today's event. sheinelle? >> kelly o'donnell, good job with the theme music behind you. maybe it will follow you wherever you go. thank you, kelly. joining me now is niles standen. good afternoon to both of you. niall, talking about allegations of a russian hack during his thank you tour. what do you make of that?
>> i think he quite rightly sees that there is no advantage to him in dwelling on that subject. his campaign has been saying all week to reporters that they view this as an attempt to delegitimize his presidency. and, of course, if he does talk about it, he has to explain why he disagrees with the reported assessment of the cia and the fbi. so really, just -- much better politically from his perspective to simply steer on to a whole different kind of territory. >> and kathryn, i want to get your take on the president's response. could the president have done more about this, in your opinion, or is this a situation where you can't win either way? >> you know, it's hard for me to say if he could have done more. he's saying they were aware of it before. they did talk about this before the election. that he has sent messages, that they are continuing to look at it. that there is still options for them. i mean, it's a very complicated situation dealing with, you
know, american democracy and how elections are carried out. so these are very delicate situations. it's a delicate situation with voting. and so i think there's a lot of caution on all sides here. >>. let's talk about john podesta, former chairman of clinton's campaign. had a scathing message to their response of the russian hacking. here's part of what he wrote in the "washington post." comparing the fbi's massive response to the overblown e-mail scandal with seemingly lackadaisical response shows something is deeply broken. basically accusing the bureau being disproportional if you will. is that a fair assessment or is this campaign sour grapes? >> i think it's debatable. of course, supporters of secretary clinton believe it is, believe the fbi interveenld. i read these explanations with a
slightly skeptical eye. concentrating on things like the fbi in a sense ab solves people in hillary clinton's campaign from losing to a person that democrats frankly consider a kind of dangerous buffoon. and so if you say, well, it was all the fbi's fault or all the russians' fault that avoids any discussion from people like john podesta of why the campaign was so close in the first place, given she had considerable advantages. >> trump's campaign really dismissing the analysis after president obama backed up the campaigns. what is it going to take for everybody to get on board here? should the cia reveal more proof or concrete proof? >> you know, it may help if there are more reports. it does look like there could be more investigation from congress. so as more information colossme out, may be harder for trump and
his team to dismiss this outright. >> there is another topic. first lady michelle obama reflected on her husband's legacy. listen to what she told oprah and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> your husband's administration, everything, the election, was all about hope. do you think that this administration achieved that? >> yes. i do. because we feel the difference now. >> yeah. >> see, now we're feeling what not having hope feels like. you know? >> were you surprised by these remarks? i guess especially at a time when the president is efforting a smooth transfer of power and call for unionty? what do you think? >> hope -- different people feel different things right now. so i understand where they're coming from. but i was at a trump rally a couple days ago and there were a lot of people who voted for him who have a lot of hope about the incoming president. so some of this -- i mean, does
come back to one of the resounding messages of this election, which is that there -- this is a very divided country and there are people who have had very different experiences. >> in contrast, you talk about the president trying to scale back the rhetoric in yesterday's news conference, especially when it comes to donald trump. why is that important for him? >> i think that president obama places a lot of faith in institutions and in the idea of maintaining a civil tone. it was that appeal to civility that first launched -- wasn't even a senator when he made his famous 2004 speech about red america and red states and blue states. he wants to ensure a smooth transition. i think he accepts that people with oppose donald trump with vigor if they wish. but he doesn't want the presidency to be seen as illegitimate or this victory to be seen as actually illegitimate
because he fears a tear in the fabric? >> kathryn, would you agree? i'll leave you with the final word? >> yeah, i think obviously the president is doing everything he can to make sure this is a smooth process. and even as he has strong words, saying he has had cordial conversations with the president-elect, and remains hopeful that they can continue those. >> able to squeeze in a lot of topics in a short amount of time. thank you both for talking with me on this saturday. still ahead, the fallout from the claims that moscow hacked the election. how dangerous is it to be demonizing russia. he'll speak with senator bob graham, who served for four years on the intelligence committee. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
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was, other than -- other than to just disrupt the election and create doubt among the american people so no matter who won, it will be a cloud over that person. so putin and the russians have conceded. right now the media and certain democrats in congress and certain elements are doing what putin wanted them to do. put a doubt in the cloud of the president-elect. >> that was republican congressman, peter king of new york. and reports that intelligence officials believe that the russian government interfered with the u.s. election. let's bring in bob graham, former florida governor, senator and chairman of the senate intelligence committee. he's also the author of "america, the owner's manual". thank you for coming in this morning. >> thank you. >> you just heard congressman king there, saying hacking was done, not necessarily as a vendetta to hillary clinton but to cast doubt on the u.s. elections as a whole. do you agree with that? >> frankly -- >> a lot of things you don't know. we don't know what the evidence is that the russians were
involved at all. and certainly don't have evidence what their motivations were. i think it's important we have a full, independent, bipartisan investigation into this matter. and let the american people know and let them know now. one of the lessons from 9/11 is it's now 15 years from that horrific event, and there are still major sources of information about what happened that have not been released to the public. that does a couple of things. one, it emboldens your opposition to do more, because they think we're -- we're not being held to account. and second, i believe it contributes to the american people's concern, cynicism, skepticism, about government. >> i think you're right. let's talk about that in just a minute. also, what would russia stand to gain by really casting doubt on the idea that the u.s. elections are fair and free. >> well, they are playing a global game. they want to disrupt their
relationship among the democracies of the world. particularly the united states and europe and allies and asia. and one of the ways they think they can do that is by casting doubt about the legitimacy of the american election and therefore, the legitimacy of the person who sits in the oval office. i believe that the conclusion of an independent investigation would be that that is their motive. >> i want to pick up on that. you and i were talking off camera, so many people still skeptical about these intel assessments, blaming racino. i want to play a clip for you, steven cohen. here's what he said about the intel findings on the brian lehrer show. >> until they do an actual estimate, which would take months. until they do it, you can't talk about any kind of consensus in our intelligence agencies. so what they're talking about
are assessments, opinions, and they're not telling us what facts they base that on. and meanwhile -- meanwhile, we're polluting our discourse about russia, during an extremely dangerous time. >> what's your take? a lot of people feeling we're rushing to judgment. >> i would agree. let's slow down. let's get a group of people in whom the american people have confidence to look deeply at this, and then rather expeditiously, not 15 years from now, but hope a year or 18 months from now, give us their assessment of what happened, what was the role of different parties, what was their motivation, and what's been the consequences of their hacking into the u.s. election. >> you were on the intel committee. we were just talking about this off camera when the senate voted and voted against the iraq war. tell me this. you were on the front lines of this. you know, are there -- obviously, there are things we can't see.
but is there any way they can release something or give us some kind of an inkling so we have concrete proof that's the case? i don't know what you guys are privy to see. i don't know if that's possible. but is it? >> it is possible, and not only is it possible, it is the american tradition. it's only been fairly recently that we have gotten into the habit of putting the stamp of secrecy on so much information that in the past would have been made available immediately to the american people. i think we need to return to our traditions of respecting the judgment of the american people by giving them all the information that allows them to know, the american people, what the government is doing in their name. >> is there a tap-dance there between giving us too much information but then obviously not having so much secrecy we think there is a scandal or something hidden from us? >> there is a tradeoff, but i think the tradeoff in the last few years has been inordinately toward secrecy. and i think a lot of the reason
is the fact they're not covering up some national security information, but rather they are covering up incompetence or failure to evolve that the american people have a right to expect of some of our most important agencies. >> what is your take of the way we're learning about these things through leaks. it seems like more than usual. is it? >> the -- unfortunately, at the wrong time, the intelligence agencies tend to leak. and that is when they don't have or are not in a position to give us the hard facts upon which judgments are being predicated, and they create this sense of excitement and peril. i believe that this is a time to take a deep breath, settle back, gets get some good people looking at this and give us as expeditious period of time as
possible, their assessment of what really happened, and what does it mean? >> it's a nice segue to your book. in your book, you talk about how citizens can channel their frustrations with the political system and the action. now that the election is over, what would you say citizens can do to affect change? and i'm asking this, but thinking in my head, they can go to twitter, that kind of thing. but i don't know if we need more of that. do you know what i mean? >> let me give you an example of what citizens can do. >> okay. >> mothers against drunk driving. an organization founded in the living -- in the living room of a group of mothers in sacramento, california. several of whom who had children either injured or killed by a drunk driver. they were grieving, but they said, we're going to do more than just grieve. we're going to actually get involved by finding out what are the causes of this unacceptable level of drunk driving, and what can be done about it. and they came up with researched-based solutions to how to reduce drunk driving, and
they sold key political leaders, including president reagan, on their methodology. and today, we have almost half as many deaths attributable to drunk driving as they did when we started the campaign more than 30 years ago. >> you know, that's a good point. i hadn't thought about it. i think about, gosh, 15, 20 years ago, i was covering mothers against drunk driving. and you think about over the years, the results they were able to carry out. do you think citizenship is a lost art, if you will? i remember taking a class on citizenship in elementary school. >> well, you were -- you were unusual. and lucky. because civics is virtually disappeared from the curriculum of most schools in america. i have 11 grandchildren, most of them have had no civics in their school career. i think that, yes, we need to have a renewal of civics. and it needs to be a modern-day civics. and needs to focus on what does
a citizen need to know to make government respond to them. we need to be educating participants, people who are going to actually get down on the playing field of democracy and make a difference like those mothers did in sacramento. not just watch other people play the game of democracy. >> yeah, not just tweeting 140 characters, getting in there and getting your hands dirty. excellent conversation. i didn't mean to bang on the table. thank you for coming in. we'll have to do this again. >> i hope so. unblurring the lines. how hard will it be for donald trump to separate his business interests from his political ones? that's coming up.
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gle glen glenn. he died at the age of 95. the first u.s. astronaut to orbit early. it's leading to a memorial service which will come today at 2:00 eastern. the northeast is getting slammed with snow and freezing rain, triggering weather-related car crashes, highway pileups and flight delays. a large swath of the country. morgan radford is in new york. it's been snowing there, gosh, since earlier this morning. i talked to you on the "today" show this morning. how are people preparing? >> reporter: well, people are preparing. they're salting the streets, shoveling in front of their businesses and homes. it's about 29 degrees out here. as you mentioned, snowing earlier today. and that snow then turned into freezing rain, and it's been coating the streets. and that's part of the problem that we have seen happen in major cities along the east coast, where they have been feeling this snow and ice. and this wind chill that's
become dangerously cold. traffic accidents in baltimore, 55 vehicles involved in a crash. 40 still currently on the southbound side of the highway, trying be removed. that's why people here, especially in places in the northeast, people are on high alert, prepared for the snow that still might be coming. take a listen. >> common sense. you just have to be smart about everything. make sure that you are equipped in your cars, make sure you do have a shovel, and scraper in the car, whatever. make sure you have adequate footing or boots and clothing. just so that you should run into a situation that you're prepared. this is the north. i mean, it's not -- this isn't florida. so you have to be ready for pretty much anything. >> reporter: sheinelle, we have also seen delays and cancellations at major airports across the country, like in new york's laguardia airport and dulles international airport in washington, d.c. they had to close down all of those runways because of those
to politics now. president obama's final end of the year press conference still echoing today, touching on everything from china to voting machines to ronald reagan. but when the conversation turned to congress, the president did not hold back. >> for too long, everything that happens in this town, everything that's said, is seen through the lens of does this help or hurt us relative to democrats. or relative to president obama. and unless that changes, we're going to continue to be vulnerable to foreign influence. because we have lost track of what it is that we're about and what we stand for.
>> let's bring in peter emerson, huffington post contributor and elise jordan, political analyst, adviser to senator paul. what's your reaction from what we heard from the president there? >> i think that everyone is extraordinarily nearly frustrated with congress, and also president obama isn't really taking into account that perhaps he could have had better relations with congress throughout the duration of his president secy and at the end sloughing off the blame. >> what about his concern that partisanship can become a risk to national security? >> i think we're at the critical inflexion point where the influence on the russian election, no one knows what it is until we have a full intelligence accounting of this, and there is some transparency. it should be a national security issue, not a partisan issue. >> your previous guest, senator bob graham, is an extraordinary example of a washington that used to exist. and i use him and others as an example that when i first went
to washington, i had a feeling that everyone on both sides of the aisle when they got up in the morning, were interested in what's best for america. they differed violently often, on what they felt was best. but it was about america. when i walk on the hill today on capitol hill, i don't often think or feel that that's what everyone's agenda is. >> it's a conversation we need to have. i wonder how we'll get back to that. don't answer that, that will be a 20-minute conversation. earlier this week, our nbc pollster, peter hart, asked voters why they thought trump would be a good president. i want to listen to responses and then we'll talk about it. >> he'll be a good president, because -- derek. >> things will get done. >> he'll be a good president because -- >> he's unpretentious. >> he'll be a good president because. >> not afraid to make changes. >> because. >> he has a clear path for change. clear correction. >> marcy. >> because he has the drive to make the change. >> what do you think?
>> i think they're right on target. the one thing that wasn't said that they're all really saying underneath it all is that he listened to us, he experienced our fear. and he's the first one in a long time that understood that we feel that america isn't serving us. as it once was. and it's not going to be there for our children. >> what do you think? >> he's the change candidate and the change candidate won. this is a change election. and that's what i heard from so many voters in these critical swing states. they felt hillary clinton would continue the status quo. and trump, for better or worse, was going to go in and disrupt washington. and they want that. and were willing to take the risk. because trump hasn't outlined what the policy will be and fear his impulsivity. but having that change was better than just the status quo. >> and they didn't take him literally as someone pointed out some time ago. what they heard was a larger macro message about america. it wasn't about process and
washington. it was about america. >> well, on that note, everyone in this focus group was a self-described trump supporter. but a lot admitted about trump's attitude towards intelligence briefings. let's take a listen. >> i think him being an inexperienced government official, there are a lot more people that know certain things that he doesn't that he needs to know. >> okay. that's eric. what else? >> a president that needs to be proactive instead of reactive. >> okay. >> you can't do that unless you know what's going on. >> are they right to be worried? they are incredibly right to be worried. it's so troubling that trump appears to disregard what the intelligence agencies think if he doesn't line up with what he wants to believe. the intelligence agencies are there to provide factual analysis. and really presidents have to fight the urge to overpoliticize intelligence at different points. and obama assered on the side of caution, because he didn't want to overpoliticize the initial
findings back in october that the intelligence agencies were talking about russia being actively involved. >> that's a good point. should we worry about him publicly not shaming but refuting their findings? >> we should worry about the fact he doesn't know how to say the simple words "i don't know." obama admitted when he came in, no one can know what the presidency is like. i've been in several administrations. no one can prepare themselves for it. but they can go in with a sense of humility. and be able to say, i don't know. >> i don't know if he would ever say i don't know. >> he's not going to. exactly. and that's dangerous. >> this -- if you were to have to advise him, if you will, what would you say about all of his business interests and whether, you know, he should separate himself or -- i don't even know -- he obviously -- if he wanted to win, he should have known this was coming. either one of you can jump in. >> i personally think he should separate himself. but he's not going to. and this is going to be the great challenge on both sides of the aisle, confronting trump's ethical violations.
if he does go forward, i'm president and i can do whatever i want. that's going to be a huge, huge matter and question of principle for republicans and democrats when it comes to the office of the presidency. >> we're in another age. we've got billionaires, mega millionaires running for all sorts of offices, including the presidency he's won. the whole ethics structure and conflict of interest and blind trust, they're out the window. >> help me here. i don't want to get too weedsy that's now become american -- american people's problem. should that be our problem? go ahead. >> he should disclose all of the conflicts of interest and let the american people know as he makes decisions where those conflicts of interest lie. i would be very happy with a disclosure of both conflicts of interest as well as tax returns, and i think from what i'm hearing on the hill, there is some folks looking to crea create lation to disclose
conflicts of interest. there is no blind trust that's going to take in a global empire and be blind. >> elise, i feel like we can talk until we're blue in the face. if he doesn't want to do it, he's not going to do it. >> i think we're witnessing the office of the presidency really being thrown out of this vaunted place in american history where we look up to the office, respect the office so much. it's seen as the beacon of ethics and -- most of the time. and that's why we challenge -- >> voters in ohio -- >> smashing that and doesn't care about it and people don't care about it if they are that fearful about their lives and livelihoods. >> elise is exactly right. fear beats all the decks. >> that's what we're seeing. >> all the cards in the deck. and that's what we're seeing. so fear is going to beat ethics, blind trust, disclosure, even rational thought. >> now we just have to see the results. what happens.
peter emerson, elise, good conversation on this saturday. thank you for coming in on this cold saturday. a massive cold front, coast to coast, plunging temperatures bely normal in at least 45 says. and in the next hour, i'll talk with an lecter who doesn't want to vote for hillary clinton or donald trump. i'll ask her if there is any chance of actually flipping votes at this point? well this here's a load-bearing wall. we'll go ahead and rip that out. that'll cause a lot of problems. hmm. totally unnecessary and it triples the budget.
new reports of more weather-related car crashes and multiple states. the freezing rain and ice making the roadways treacherous, causing car pileups on highways and flight delays. the weather channel's mike seidel is in minneapolis. mike, what's the situation there like right now? >> good afternoon, sheinelle. it is bitterly cold here. temperatures at 5. the wind chill, 15 below zero. and it's going to get mighty colder tonight and tomorrow morning. we've had some snow here, about 6 inches of snow. that's generally ending.
we've got a little sunshine, but at this time of the year, at this sun angle, you don't feel any warmth. the snow brushes out here, very typical here in nicollet mall in downtown p downtown minneapolis. it is very dry and powdery. over 450 crashes statewide since late on thursday night. and that is caused one fatality. over 35 injuries, a couple serious injuries, and 250 cars spinning out going into ditches because they're not slowing down and giving themselves braking distance. this arctic air mass is the coldest in 20 years. minneapolis has not had a low temperature below 20 below zero. the wind chill as cold as 40 below zero. the same air mass headed to chicago. the bears play outside tomorrow. one of the coldest at soldier field. and eventually the arctic air
sweeps to the east coast. tomorrow morning i will be at the tailgate at the vikings game. and it will be 40 below wind chill. i don't know what i'm thinking, but i'll be there. >> that is -- >> wearing more than the seven layers i'm wearing now. >> i actually wondereded about that. are your cheeks frozen? i remember doing live shots where you feel like you can't talk any more? >> they're getting there. tomorrow morning it will be tough to talk. and when it's that cold your skin just burns with that kind of wind chill. >> >> oh, my goodness. >> layer up or stay indoors. >> mike seidel, thank you. still ahead, taking a closer look at how hacking accusations could affect the relationship between the u.s. and russia.
>> president obama talking about a breakdown in u.s./russian relations at his final news conference of the year yesterday. our next guest says, quote, russian president, vladimir putin, has embraced an opportunistic but sophisticated campaign to sabotage democracy. joining me now, larry diamond, senior fellow at the hoover institution. good afternoon to you. >> nice to be with you, sheinelle. >> let's dig into it. you say that russian president, vladimir putin, wants to sabotage democracy. he is smart enough to know he cannot undermine it every build, with you bell subvert, corrupt and confuse it wherever he can. can you explain that a little bit? >> this didn't start with the united states. he's been trying to subvert democracy across europe. he wants to basically shatter the nato alliance and undermine the european union. he's already conquered a piece of ukraine, crimea and has
forces in eastern ukraine. he had previously, in 2008, subverted georgian democracy, and picked off pieces of their territory. and then he launched what we now know to be an extremely sophisticated campaign to confuse and probably tilt the american election. to a candidate who has said he would like to remove the sanctions on vladimir putin that were put in place precisely to punish him for his conquest of crimea and his sub version of democratic governments elsewhere in europe. so i mean, look at what all this adds up to. if people aren't disturbed, they're not looking carefully at the trail of evidence. >> with that, i want you to give me your take on a clip here. russia expert, steven cohen says we have to be careful about demonizing, russia. listen to what he had to say about the russian hacking. >> until they do an actual
estimate, which would take months -- until they do it, you can't talk about any kind of consensus in our intelligence agencies. so what they are talking about are assessments. opinions. and they're not telling us what facts they base that on. and meanwhile, meanwhile, we're polluting our discourse about russia during an exceedingly dangerous time in our relations with russia. >> what do you think about that. polluting our discourse. >> well, you know, professor cohen has always had the most charitab charitable interpretation possible. so i think his current comments need to be viewed in that light. >> is there something to it, though, we have to be careful about not rushing to judgment, considering the interpretations and the risks? >> i do favor an expedited bipartisan -- and it's very
important to emphasize that -- bipartisan congressional investigation of what's happened. one of the the things we have to worry about in terms of expediting the consideration of this, is that after january 20th, we'll have a president who may have less of an incentive to get all of the facts out. and so i think we need to get as much out -- hopefully declassified, but certainly considered by the senate and house intelligence committees. i think we should follow the precedent of having them deliberate jointly, and hear all of the evidence, and deliver some kind of determination before january 20th. >> let's talk about president obama's response. he says russia will not succeed in thwarting democracy. take a listen to what he said and then we'll talk. >> the russians can't change us or significantly weaken us.
they are a smaller country, they are a weaker country, their economy doesn't produce anything that anybody wants to buy, except oil and gas and arms. they can impact us if we lose track of who we are. they can impact us if we abandon our values. >> was that effective, in your opinion, larry? >> no, i have great respect for president obama, but i think there is a current naivete in that. >> what do you think people want to hear? >> what i want to hear is an pl explicit acknowledgment, more forcefully, however painful it may be, that russia has already distorted and probably tilted our democratic process. that there is already other evidence that we are losing track of our values. we have a deeply authoritarian and interventionist, aggressive
russian authoritarian state that has launched highly sophisticated cyber operations against democracy through very sophisticated social media interventions. not only in the united states, but across europe. we need to systematically document that. we need to declassify a lot of evidence of that. and we need a much more vigorous approach to confront it. >> we have been talking about that. i wonder if they will de classify it to give americans proof. larry diamond, good conversation. >> thank you, sheinelle. china says tensions are escalating over the u.s. drone it took from the u.s. navy. the latest as it is unfolding at the top of the hour. every day starts better with a healthy smile. start yours with philips sonicare, the no.1 choice of dentists. compared to oral-b 7000, philips sonicare flexcare platinum removes significantly more plaque. this is the sound of sonic technology