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tv   MSNBC Live With Jose Diaz- Balart  MSNBC  February 5, 2016 6:00am-8:01am PST

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gear up for great®. i'm chris jansing live on the ground in new hampshire. voters here now get one last weekend to think it over before tuesday's primary. bernie sanders and hillary clinton not holding anything back in last night's msnbc debate. the two fought hard over who exactly is more progressive, wall street, and who has the better judgment to be president. over the republican side donald trump is putting iowa in the near view mirror and in our new nbc news poll the businessman hold on to his lead in new hampshire. marco rubio surging to second followed by ted cruz. let's begin this morning with
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what the impacts will be from last night's debate. you can tell how contentious it was going to be because the candidates and audience came prepared for a showdown. that's exactly what they got. >> secretary clinton does represent the establishment. >> senator sanders is the only person who i think would characterize me a woman running to be the first woman president as exempt fieg the establishment. >> what being part of the establishment is in the last quarter being a super pac that raised $15 million from wall street. >> i really don't think these kinds of attacks by insinuation are worthy of you. >> wall street is perhaps the most powerful economic and political force in this country. >> i think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign can be carrying out. >> are you willing to release the transcripts of all your paid
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speeches? >> i will look into it. >> when we both looked at the same evidence about the wisdom of the with aer in iraq one of us voted the right way and one of us didn't. >> in your definition as you being the self-proclaimed gatekeeper for progress i havism i don't know anyone else who fits that deaf nation. >> you can't be a moderate, you can't be a progressive. >> cherry-picking a quote here or there doesn't change my record. >> one of the things we should do is not only talk the walk, but walk the walk. >> boy, there were some great moments. we will break it all town for you this morning. our star political team is on the ground in new hampshire and in our msnbc studios. nbc's kristen welker, msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt, steve kornacki is with us along with annie lenske and howard fine man. kristen, let me start with you, you've been covering the clinton campaign for months now. after hearing this line of attack from the bernie sanders
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campaign for weeks is seems like hillary clinton just can't outrun her ties to wall street. that was a big chunk of the debate last night. >> it was a big chunk of the debate, chris, you're absolutely right and it was also this debate about the future for the democratic party. it was gloves off. that's for sure. but you rightfully point out bernie sanders really aggressively attacking secretary clinton last night for her ties to wall street, for accepting money for paid speeches after she had left the state department. secretary clinton, though, on defensive in a way that we have not seen her. she was more aggressive, she had sharper attacks against him, take a listen to one of the sharpest attacks. >> there is this attack that he is putting forth which really comes down to, you know, anybody who ever took donations or speaking fees from any interest group has to be bought.
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and i just absolutely reject that, senator. and i really don't think these kinds of attacks by insinuation are worthy of you. and enough is enough. if you've got something to say, say it directly, but you will not find that i ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation that i ever received. >> what -- >> and i have stood up and i have represented my constituents to the best of my ability and i'm very proud of that. >> you know -- >> so i think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks and let's talk -- let's talk about the issues. >> reporter: chris, that line, that artful smear line, is kind of becoming the headline of the night. i asked her campaign officials after the debate if she had gone too far and they said absolutely not. that she needed to stand up to
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these sustained attacks that she was getting from bernie sanders. so as you heard there in the audience she got a mixed reaction. we will have to see what voters have to say in the coming days. there was also a robust debate about who is the real progressive, of course, we have seen that debate play out for the past several days. secretary clinton on defense about that as well, arguing that her days of progress i havism goes back to when she was first lady. all of this coming as we're getting a new look at the national poll numbers. according to the latest quinnipiac poll secretary clinton leads bernie sanders by a narrow margin, 44 to 42% and in december she led him by about 30 points. so what you're seeing is the party really converged around these two candidates as we get into this primary season and it is deeply divided. right now the focus is on new hampshire, secretary clinton in just a few hours will be holding an event where she will be rallying women voters and surprisingly, chris, she trails
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women voters, her base here in new hampshire. so she has a lot of work to do because more broadly she's trailing bernie sanders by 20 points here in new hampshire. she's hoping to make up some of that gap. chris. >> women, young people, a lot of surprises in those polls. kristen welker, thank you. msnbc's political krs pond ent kasie hunt is following bernie sanders. it was her questions to the candidate that prompted the debate over who is the true progressive. casey, he has already got an event this morning, right? >> reporter: yes, we do, chris. this is the named politics and eggs breakfast, bernie sanders will be appearing here shortly before moving on to another event and a press conference and expected endorsement from ben jealous, the former head of the naacp. that of course hopefully the campaign thinks will help him with african-american voters where of course he's running a deficit with hillary clinton. but last night, chris, those fiery -- the most fiery
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exchanges that whole top half of that debate where chuck todd and rachel mad do you let these two candidates go one-on-one is over this issue of who is actually a progressive. you heard the line the artful smear accusing bernie sanders of essentially smearing her without saying it out loud and asking him to respond. but sanders continued with his critique. take a listen so what he had to say about who was a true progressive. >> instead of arguing about definitions let's talk about -- let's talk about what we should do. and one of the things we should do is not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. i am very proud to be the only candidate up here who does not have a super pac, who is not raising huge sums of money from wall street or special interests. i am enormously proud. never believed it would happen that we have raised $3.5 million
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individual contributions averaging $27 apiece. that is what the political revolution means. >> reporter: sanders, of course, talking about as well the contributions that hillary clinton received from wall street, saying that all of that money has to buy something, chris. >> kasie hunt, thank you so much. i want to bring in msnbc steve kornacki, annie lenske and howard fineman. howard, you compared the beginning of this debate to a frazier, ali. they were going at it. >> i'm sorry to go after the old boxing analogies but it was quite remarkable. i've covered a ton of these debates. i haven't seen one that heated, that direct, that confrontational. also just two people. >> yeah. >> in a long, long time. >> that totally changed the dynamic. >> it totally changed the dynamic. and it's about this essential
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point of money and politics. bernie sanders is a heat seeking missile on this, there aren't ten democrats in the country who don't agree with him on the substance of that issue. >> yes. >> and that's the big issue that hillary clinton has got. >> and so you come to this point and you -- i felt sitting just above the audience in one of those little balconies that she came saying this is not going to be 2008 again, she knows what the stakes are, it's amazing when you look at this new q poll how we got to this point and really how substantive the debate was and how important it was. >> yeah, and it's really a debate about what is the democratic party. i mean, hillary clinton clearly stands for one part of the democratic party which is a part that we are all used to, the emily's list, these big establishment organizations. >> and there were a lot of folks in the audience last night cheering for her. >> and you have bernie sanders who is standing for a different portion of the party, sort of what -- i don't know, what we used to call the elizabeth
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warren party, the part that's really felt that they haven't been part of the process for so long and it's amazing to see them, that side of the party rise up and we watched it on the republican side for so long and i just begin to wonder are we at the sort of cusp of seeing the democratic party go through some of those same reverberations that we have seen for the last four years. >> you talk to people leaving and i talked to about a dozen people and you had the -- you know, people who were solidly in the hillary clinton camp and people who were solidly in the bernie camp. i was surprised at the number of people who said to me this is about head versus heart. they've picked up these almost punditry talking points but really feel it, howard, very strongly. the second thing i heard a lot was electability. >> yes. yes. that's true. and i talked to those voters, too, and i also talked to the people running bernie's campaign. jeff weaver and tad dee vine and
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they have very confident and the reason that they are in part is that bernie is almost not a person, he is an idea. >> yeah. >> to use a fancy modern term, he is a meme. he is a viral idea. and that viral idea is very central to the concerns of the american people. he has managed to connect up the idea that peoples wages are not advancing, that their real incomes have not increased in the middle class in 25 years, with the idea that there is a corrupt political system based on wall street and corporate money and pacs and that the very symbol in essence of all of that is hid ri rodham clinton. i agree with you, the constituency politics of women, of identity, of all of that is very, very important, but it may be dated, you know, timing is everything in politics and i'm not sure if the timing is right for hillary because that type of politics as powerful as it is is being overcome at the moment by
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bernie's idea about the nature of american society. >> and a perception that we've all heard a lot from voters which is his consistency versus what they say as more questionable -- >> to your point, too, i think that bernie in many ways is more of a movement than a candidate and as a politician, as hillary clinton is, it's very, very hard to attack a movement because when you attack a movement you make the -- those 3 point or 2.5 million donors that bernie keeps talking about they feel attacked and they go online and they donate $5 and all of a sudden 24 hours passes and they've raised $3 million. >> it's unbelievable. >> that means he can keep going, he can go to texas. >> he's better funded than she is right now. >> this is so drag we have a map of the 2008 hillary clinton winning in the heavily populated more moderate southeastern part of the state if we can take a look at that. those areas in the state have changed a bit over the last eight years.
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steve kornacki, let's take a look at when tuesday comes what people will be looking at in terms of results, who has got the support where. what are you finding? >> if you keep that map in mind the blue areas there that barack obama won in 2008 that's sort of the base that bernie sanders wants to turn out for himself this time. that's your sort of starting point if you're bernie sanders. that got barack obama within 3 points of beating hillary clinton in 2008. the question is where has sanders to have these leads we are seeing in the polls where is he expanding on that? there are a couple place toss keep in mind. on that map look in the far north, that's called coask county, the north country of new hampshire. blue collar, low income, heavily native population, it's very blue collar. hillary clinton did well there in 2008 but sanders has been making inroads with those voters, also blue collar voters, rochester on the map, blue collar, older, catholic cities in that part of the state sanders has been making inroads there, but the big one is
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nashua, hillsborough county, that greene county around nashua, that was hillary clinton's biggest plurality of any county in 2008, more than half of her statewide margin came from that county. in our new nbc maris poll that came out last night we polled just in that county, it's a bellwether county in new hampshire and bernie sanders is leading hillary clinton there 49d to 47%. that hillsborough county, that's the heart of the clinton base and as of right now bernie sanders ask leading there. >> steve kornacki, you will come back with more on the polls. annie and howard i have to say good buy. in the last ten seconds can hillary close the gap? >> maybe not here, but she's got to win nevada where there are hispanic voters and south carolina where there are african-american voters. >> annie. >> we might be surprised on tuesday in, new hampshire tends to surprise people but the real thing will be can bernie sanders make inroads with those minorities. if he can he's got a shot. if he can't i think that this is
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over. >> thanks to both of you for a short turn around. great having you here. we have a lot more ahead in this special hour of "msnbc live" from manchester, new hampshire. after the break we return to the republican side. we have brand new numbers from our nbc news "wall street journal" maris poll. steve kornacki will be back and break it all down for us and we will talk about a veteran republican strategist about the race. so say right here on msnbc. heim? i switched to geico and got more. more savings on car insurance? yeah bro-fessor, and more. like renters insurance. more ways to save. nice, bro-tato chip. that's not all, bro-tein shake. geico has motorcycle and rv insurance, too. oh, that's a lot more. oh yeah, i'm all about more, teddy brosevelt. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. as we age, certain nutrients longer than ever. become especially important. from the makers of one a day fifty-plus.
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you thought the democrats were having fun last night. this morning we have the new nbc news "wall street journal" nare ris poll on the state of the republican as well as democratic races. steve kornacki back with a closer look at some of the numbers. steve, good morning again. >> good morning. here are the bottom line numbers. donald trump continues to lead
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in new hampshire. if you break it down and also look at their second choices the interesting thing that jumps out is marco rubio is the top second choice option, donald trump lags back. so the key for marco rubio trying to make up ground, he is the second choice of more voters than trump. that probably gives him more potential ground to make up there. also we continue to see this college noncollege divide on the republican side. donald trump doing much better here with voters who are not college grad walz, he drops off with college graduates. that's something we also saw in iowa. >> all right. steve kornacki, thank you. let me bring in a veteran republican strategist dave carney who has run multiple republican presidential campaigns. what do you make of those numbers, marco rubio on the move? >> obviously he is showing a little bit of bump out of iowa, which, you know, generally happens. it seems if you look at -- >> does it usually happen from the person who comes in third? >> if you look at all the
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attention he has gotten, all the national media exposure, all of the sort of media discussion which we are not immune to it here in new hampshire has been about rubio. you look at all the polls this week he steams to get a 5 or 6% bump and that's about it. >> he has also been relentlessly attacked as he has been rising people have been going after him. here is what he said last night about the perception by his competition, that he has this lack of experience. here is what he said. >> no one running for president has presidential experience. being president is nothing like being governor, nothing like being a senator. my second point i would say to you is barack obama is not a bad president because he lacks experience, he has now seven years of presidential experience and he is worst today than he was in his first year. >> what do you think of that answer? is it going to work for him. >> >>. >> it's the best answer he has. rick santorum yesterday morning was a horrible surrogate trying to explain, a, accomplishment. >> he couldn't name any. >> right. then they put out a list that
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was kind of weak in terms of the things they have done. it's always a problem for somebody had a has a light resumé that's been in politics their whole life. what have you actually accomplished. that's a good answer. what else is he going to say, yeah, you are right. i haven't ever done anything, i haven't passed a significant piece of legislation or built anything or done anything. he had to spin it like that. you can tell he is on the rise because all of the other opponents are taking a whack at him trying to slow down the momentum. >> he has great communication skills, when you see him work a room and look somebody in the eye it does work for him. the other part of that is of course is the ground game and where we might be in new hampshire. i want to read something from "the new york times" specifically about donald trump's ground game because even he acknowledged back after iowa that they didn't do what they maybe needed to. quote, three people briefed on internal discussions in the campaign said that repeated requests from employees in early nominating states for a greater focus on analyzing data had gone unanswered. and though the campaign started to put together a data operation
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last fall it has had no direct mail effort." so the trump campaign argues that that's not true, but have they invested and where do you see the ground game in new hampshire? >> well, you know, it's -- everybody has a little bit different version of what's going on. carly's more america pac has been running a solid ground game since may. bush has had a solid ground game, you know, has -- >> well financed. >> well financed, done hundreds of doors every week, has done thousands of phone calls, has some analytics to it. the one thing that's going to bother both donald trump and marco rubio next wednesday is they're going to kick themselves in the behind for not having done more in new hampshire. a little bit of investment -- donald trump lost 20% of his support from the polls in iowa to turn out. one out of five of her supporters did not turn out. you can't have that kind of a loss. a good organization will identify your support and make sure you get out and vote. neither rubio or trump and
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particularly trump has done enough to really benefit from their iowa experience. rubio would be doing much better if he had a much slid -- knew who the persuade abls were and undecided were after iowa to whoop in and say, listen, we are on the move and winning and moving. they are id'ing voters and doing random phone calls to republicans and id'ing them. that should have been done weeks ago, they should be in the persuasion mode to the undecided and turn out more for their id's voters. >> give me your quick prediction, first, second, third. >> trump first, battle between second and third with rubio and cruz, most likely rubio. the real request he is do any of the governor establishment candidates break into the pack and make the third/fourth die. >> david carney, great to have you in here. after the break we will take it to the voters. who did they think won last night's debate? our own tamron hall went to a watch party. and i spoke with some of the
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audience members on their way out including a father and son. guess who convinced who to vote? listen. >> any minds changed. >> no, not in there. bernie all the way. >> so it runs in the family. >> he convinced me. it's his first time voting. >> what did he say to convince you? >> he talked right from the beginning about the change, the need for change and the belief that bernie has this integrity and authenticity that we're missing. >> are you always so successful at convincing him to change his mind? >> i'm pretty good. i'm pretty good. >> but i think -- >> future politicians. >> i think you have kids that are affecting the adults. i see it all the time now. vo: know you have a dedicated advisor and team who understand where you come from. we didn't really have anything, you know. but, we made do. vo: know you can craft an investment plan as strong as your values. al, how you doing. hey, mr. hamilton. vo: know that together you can establish a meaningful legacy.
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americans and, by the way, who are not all that even in order with the establishment. >> look, i've got to just jump in here because honestly senator sanders is the only person who i think would characterize me, a woman running to be the first woman president, as exemplifying the establishment. >> welcome back to manchester. four days now only to the new hampshire primary. hillary clinton is running way behind bernie sanders i don't think young voters. last night i talked with a couple of college roommates, they actually went to high school together, they're friends but one is for sanders, the other is for clinton. we got together after the debate. take a look to what they had to say. >> nothing changed my mind. i thought they had great conversations and it really brought out the best and these two bring out the best in each other and i like that and think it's a good thing for our country, but nothing really solid to change my mind. i am still hillary all the way. >> same with bernie sanders.
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i think hillary showed she is a strong candidate and does well in debates. >> she didn't win you over. >> no unfortunately not. >> what's it like when you guys get together and are going at it over politics. >> we try to keep it civil most of the time but late night and tonight we do fight all the time. wall street reform is a big issue for ours and just the overall revolution that bernie sanders is trying to bring. >> fighting going on in the dorm rooms. >> that's right. i'm really for obama's policies and i like the direction our government is going and i hope that hillary clinton can continue that. that's why i like her. so our arguments kind of get over dramatic sometimes, but when it comes down to it we shake hands at the end like they did tonight and have a got time and debate on the real issues. >> i was really surprised at the number of people i met last night who came together but one was for hillary clinton and the other was for bernie sanders. we didn't see any fights breaking out or anything like that. i'm not clear that anybody convinced anybody to change their mind. we shall see when they go to the polls. after the break we will turn back to the republican side of
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the primary. donald trump, ted cruz, and marco rubio all hitting the trail here in new hampshire. hard over the next three days. our experienced team of journalists covering the campaigns will join me after the break. hallie jackson, gabe gutierrez, jane dim up next. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas
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very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks and let's talk -- let's talk about the issues. >> secretary clinton does represent the establishment. i represent, i hope, ordinary americans, and by the way, who are not all that enamored with the establishment. >> so we started with the ali/frazier analogy and the gloves were off at last night's democratic debate on msnbc. tomorrow it's the republican's
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turn at the final debate. our new nbc poll shows a tighter race in new hampshire with a 13 point lead for trump, rubio in second place, he has made a big move. a new poll released this number shows trump on top in new hampshire, 34%, marco rubio second at 15, ted cruz right behind in third place. jeb bush, john kasich is tied for fourth, chris christie is in fifth place. joining me here in manchester nbc's haley jackson, also gabe gutierrez and msnbc jane timm has been covering republicans for msnbc. okay. let's start with ted cruz. so he's been on the defensive over voice mails in iowa. what's going on with that? >> this whole issue that donald trump has raised and ben carson has raised that campaign staffers were providing information that seemed to
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insinuate that ben carson might be dropping out of the race because he decided to go to florida after the iowa caucus. >> to change out his clothes. >> instead of going to new hampshire or south carolina. which raised eyebrows. the cruz campaign passed that information along to folks on the ground. here are some of the voice mails that were sent out. take a listen. >> this this is the cruz campaign. with breaking news. dr. ben carson will be ready to suss spent his race. please inform any carson caucus goers of this news and urge them to caucus for cruz instead. >> nbc news has not independently verified those phone calls specifically although we have confirmed that similar calls have been made. the cruz campaign responding to this saying, hey, this was an accurate news story that we passed along and we didn't say that ben carson was dropping out. senator cruz has apologized for not later clarifying quickly that carson wasn't dropping out of the race, he was heading home to change out of his clothes,
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but it is certainly something he is having to deal with now because his rivals are bringing it up. trump, carson are fundraising off of this now. >> let's say carson's fundraising has flat, his people say it's gone up 300%. it's definitely at least helping his coffers. >> gabe, marco rubio has also been on the defensive. let's say chris christie last night. >> i watched senator santorum on fell vision this morning. it was fascinating. three minutes to name one accomplishment of senator rubio. one. just one. it took him three minutes and he finally came up with that he fought some amendment on obamacare at one point. let me tell you, they're saving a place on mt. rush more after that one. >> this one chris christie is really good but the rubio campaign regretting this endorsement? >> no, they're not. marco rubio yesterday said,
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look, rick santorum is a friend and it's going to take a while for him to learn his story and be able to communicate his story. they are racking up endorsements left and right. now past 35. so in the campaign yesterday what they were saying was is that, look, marco rubio does have some plush mts. he put out this list listing va accountability reform, this obamacare provision he fought against although some critics have said that his role in that was greatly exaggerated by the campaign. we asked him about that yesterday and this is what he had to say. take a listen. >> to be fair to rick, rick has spent the better part of the last year and a half running for president for his campaign. he just endorsed husband last night. i wouldn't expect him to be totally familiar with my record and time. we have real achievements not just in the u.s. senate but in my team as speaker of the house and as a state legislatolegisla
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this campaign is about the future and not the past. >> i think that was key what he said right there, chris. this is not about the past, but it's about the future. he's trying to shift the conversation away from his experience and another thing that his campaign listed as an accomplishment is the sanctions against hezbollah that his campaign says he was behind but jeb bush fought back against that again this morning on "morning joe" once again and saying that, look, that was a unanimous vote that rubio didn't even show up for. his campaign, though, is really trying to stay on message. what they say is, look, the crowds are getting bigger, it's a very controlled environment, but they really feel this surge and this nbc "wall street journal" mare is poll that came out showing him at 17%, the campaign is trying to ride that momentum. today they're focused on debate prep, that debate this saturday will be huge and they know that the other so-called establishment candidates will be attacking him. >> whenever you are on the rise you have a target on your back. let's talk about donald trump.
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he is, what, five events today, you see he is stepping it up after what happened in iowa. >> absolutely. he is not taking anything for granted here in new hampshire. where retail politics are really key. like to see people out in small venues, talking to the votesers, shaking hands. you see him meeting with business owners, going to the fire department, police officers. these are the kind of things candidates have been doing for months. in the final days he will get out out there. >> jane, gabe, good to see you, hallie jackson actually here sitting, not running around the state. >> not in the snow. >> out in the snow, it's snowing out there. let's see if that affects any of the turn out at least to some of these events over the course of the day. let's turn to the democrats for a moment. in their first face-to-face debate since iowa hillary clinton and bernie sanders battled over who would be tougher on wall street. it was one of the most contentious moments not just of the night but any democratic debate we've seen this year.
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>> let's talk about issues. let's talk about why in the 1990s wall street got deregul e deregulat deregulated. did it have anything to do with the fact that wall street provided -- spent billions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions? well, some people might think, yeah, that had some influence. let's ask why it is that we pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs and your medicine can be doubled tomorrow and there's nothing that the government can do to stop it. do you think it has anything to do with the huge amounts of campaign contributions and lobbying from the fossil fuel industry? let's talk about climate change. do you think there is a reason why not one republican has the guts to recognize that climate change is real and that we need to transform our energy system? do you think it has anything to do with the koch brothers and exxon mobil pouring huge amounts of money into the political
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system? that is what goes on in america. i am not -- [ cheers and applause ] >> you are the one who voted to deregulate swaps and derivatives in 2000 which contributed to the overleveraging of lehman brothers which was one of the culprits that brought down the economy. so i don't know, i don't -- i'm not impugning your motive because you voted to deregulate swaps and derivatives, people make mistakes and i'm certainly not saying you did it for any kind of financial advantage. >> i want to bring in msnbc hard ball host chris matthews. boy, somebody gave them both some red bull last night. >> it was one-on-one. one of them is going to be the nominee and one is not going to be the nominee and that's it and that's history. >> did we see any clarity on that last night? >> i thought secretary clinton was well prepared for a lot of the charges that bernie has made against her and some other people have and i thought she was ready on that definition of a progressive. she pointed out nobody masses
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muster with bernie, even the president or ted kennedy by his standards. i thought the answer that she is a moderate is that that's a bad word but in this crowd of voters you have -- >> how important is that debate when they're fighting about these terms of progressive versus moderate. >> look, the most important thing for senator sanders is nationally, this was a national program last night, he is on a equal platform with secretary clinton. he will go up nationally because of this. just by the nature of the stature of standing two people on a stage. you watch the national numbers the next five, seven days, he will go up. he will close the gap with her but she will probably do a little better here because that 20-point gap is so dramatic up here, the fact that she can be competitive with him on a stage she'll close the gap here. the gap will close here and it will close nationally in the favor of bernie nationally down the road. bernie playing hard to get on this debate with ms last night, he's able to get three more debates like this down the road. so he's going to be able to campaign across the country with
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her and all the time he's doing it he will be closing the gap with her. that's very strategic. what did she get out of it? a one debate shot here in new hampshire. to maybe close the gap a bit. one of the great unintended consequences bernie p will gain from all these dates. >> people sort of forget about this, but this is somebody whose real previous debate experience was on small tv stations. >> yeah. >> debating as the senator from vermont or maybe before that he did some mayoral debates. did you feel like there was a big stature difference out there last night or was this really a chance for him to say, i'm leveling the playing field? >> i don't think he has been challenged much on a wide range of issues, foreign policy, i mean, i know from conversations this morning the clinton people think they have some gold there because they think he wasn't focused or in fact, comfortable with the topic of afghanistan, for example. he doesn't have a wide range of foreign policy interests. he's basically a social democrat which is what he says he is.
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democratic socialist. the other term he uses. he believes in his social programs, i'm using his -- >> suddenly you look like him. >> he wants something on healthcare, he wants something on social security and increasing the benefit level and, you know, i think -- and student -- but by the way a lot of this is just very understandable politics up here. look at the audience. if you are a kid going to school up here and you're 20 or 23 even in grad school you've got a load of debt facing you. you've got to go out and start off that debt. >> and you're worried about job prospec prospects. >> you're not worried about your taxes. if somebody comes along and said i'm going to raise the taxes on the rich and pay for your tuitions. that's a pretty good deal. who wouldn't -- now, i said this the other day. if raising taxes on young people, making them pay 50% tax rates they would all be conservatives now. it's just a question the pressure points people are under. young people have debt, they don't have taxes so you promise them i'm going to trade off your
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debt for somebody else's taxes somebody you don't know somebody rich. by the way, for speculators on wall street -- now, there is a great line. you know, nobody is going to -- speculators on wall street. that was a great -- russell long who used to be head of the senate finance committee said don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind that tree. always tax somebody you don't know. when you are in college you ain't -- aren't thinking about the stuff that is going to be the pain down the road, a paying for free tuition, paying for more social security benefits or healthcare. you want that stuff because you need it. does a young person want to pay a health insurance premium? they don't want to pay a nickel. somebody says don't worry until you're dead we're paying for all your healthcare. he's a smart politician, bernie. i'm sure there is a piece of that there, but a lot of bernie is really smart local i can do something for you politics which is not new but he's done it well. >> what have you done for me lately and that's how he got to
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this stage. chris matthews, we're having fun. >> by the way, can't you wait for larry david tomorrow night? larry david is doing this and across this and across this a thand at accent and everything. >> can you tell them apart? >> no, but i think david -- i bumped into him at this event recently right after he did it the first time, his whole life he had never done anything like -- curb your enthusiasm was nothing compared to this, seinfeld was nothing. >> you're killing my producer on the timing. >> when it's really good keep it going. >> i love you, chris matt ease. after the break tamron hall joins me here after hanging out with viewers at a debate watch party. first it's a typical snowy winter day in new hampshire, we're getting that same snowstorm that's affecting a lot of the northeast coast from the mid-atlantic up through new england. we expect 3 to 5 inches to accumulate before it's all over. we're watching the weather closely for tuesday's primary, our meteorologist bill karins
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says the entire state of new hampshire has a chance for snow, cities like portsmouth, manchester and nashua. thank you, chris matthews. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey.
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this cloud helps transform business. this is the microsoft cloud. this is salive picture at the first event for bernie sanders since debating hillary clinton. he's expected to speak in manchester any minute now. that one-on-one democratic debate gave a lot of new hampshire voter as good look at where the voters stand on key issues weighing heavy on their minds. tamron hall spent the evening at a watch party with students at the university of new hampshire who overwhelmingly said bernie sanders won the night. >> i thought it went very well. i think bernie killed it. he went in more detail about foreign policy, which he was critiqued on a lot. i think he went in more depth this time around. >> also with nafta, was one of bernie's strongest points
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tonight, because the trade agreements have really crippled our economy. >> bernie held up extremely well under pressure, especially as heavy as hillary was bashing him. i think his closing statement was beautiful. i think that both candidates did well, and i'm excited to see how the primary turns out. >> you want -- >> and tamron is with me this morning. there you were with all these students. i guess we're not surprised about the bernie sanders young people phenomenon, although it still is a problem for hillary. >> that's not the surprise, because i think bernie sanders, as we heard from the college students, we call them young people, but they're 21, 22 years old was the average age there. young voters. and here they are, they're looking at the world through the optimistic lens a lot of us can identify with. the big headline for me in the randomly selected group of people, the young women there did not care that hillary clinton could be the first woman
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president. >> that's crazy, it really is. >> in fact, several of them were offended when she brought the line up pointing to the fact, how can i be establishment, i'm a woman running for president. i'm going to play a little of what they said. >> i also am a woman. i also face discrimination as being a woman. her feminism does not represent my feminism. and i think that's really important to differentiate that. >> it's like i think you have to realize that, you know, everybody's human and you have to go for who has the best ideals and just because she's a woman doesn't make her the best candidate. >> now, by the numbers, the poll shows hillary clinton is behind bernie sanders in new hampshire 4%. we know the numbers with the young people, and we were there in 2008 when hillary clinton gave that speech about the millions of cracks in the glass ceiling after women came out in droves to support her, of all ages, inspired by her campaign. now, here you are in new hampshire, this progressive college environment, and young
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woman after young woman really shrugging it off and taking issue with the fact that hillary clinton brought it up. i thought that was fascinating. it blew me away. of all the things, i didn't see that coming. >> i didn't either. it really was a great segment. thank you so much. in fact, it was one of the fascinating, most memorable moments in the 2008 campaign. hillary clinton tearing up while she talks about why she's running for president. msnbc's erin car moan sat down with a woman who asked the question that provoked the emotional response. we're going to talk with her in the next hour here on msnbc. ♪ ♪ the bold nissan rogue, with intuitive all wheel drive. because winter needs a hero.
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ahead, live on the ground in manchester, new hampshire. take a look, fresh off the final democratic debate before the primary, bernie sanders will participate in the cluj politics and eggs breakfast. we have it next hour on msnbc.
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i'm kate snow. we're in manchester, new hampshire. what a night it was. what a next few days it will be across this state. hillary clinton and bernie sanders, both came prepared for a fight last night at the msnbc debate. the two democrats went one-on-one for the first time this election season. we're awaiting bernie sanders, by the way, any minute now. he's making his first campaign appearance since leaving the stage last night. a politics and eggs breakfast this morning. meernt, the republicans continue to have a real race in the new nbc news/"wall street journal" business poll, donald trump holds on to his lead. marco rubio now in second place followed by ted cruz. let's start with fight night in the granite state. bernie sanders and hillary
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clinton. in some of the sharpest exchanges we have ever seen. >> i really don't think these kinds of attacks by insunuation are worthy of you. >> wall street is perhaps the most powerful economic and political force in this country. >> part of the reason the wall street guys are trying so hard to stop me, the hedge fund guys, is because i have their number on all of that. >> they're ripping off a whole lot of people. >> i think it's time to end the very artful smear you and your campaign have been carrying out. >> are you willing to release the transcripts of all your paid speeches. >> i'll look into it. >> if you want to see democrats do well across the board, i think our campaign is the one that creates the large voter turnout and helps us win. >> can you reassure the democrats that somehow the e-mail issue isn't going to blow up your candidacy if you're the nominee? >> absolutely i can. >> our campaign is a campaign of the people by the people and for
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the people. >> our team is here to break it all down for you. here in new hampshire once again, kristen welker who covers the clinton campaign. kasie hunt, who is out with bernie sanders, and politico's glen thrush with me in new york. also, msnbc political correspondent steve kornacki. let me break in with kasie hunt. she covered the mitt romney campaign in 2012. she's following bernie sanders this time around. oh, boy, sorry. somebody dropped something right behind us there. everything's okay. tell us what's going on where you are. you're waiting for bernie sanders. >> hey, kate. that's right. he's going to be speaking at this politics and eggs breakfast which has become something of an institution and tradition here in new hampshire. this is a head of a full day of events for bernie sanders. he won't finish until late at the night at a big democratic dinner. let's go back to the debate. the fireworks firing especially
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in the first half hour, over questions about wall street. hillary clinton, of course, calling sanders' attacks on her on the subject an artful smear because he often does it without naming her. he, of course, came back and said there's no way that wall street firms would put so much money into politics if it didn't make a difference. take a listen. >> let's talk about issues. all right, let's talk about why in the 1990s, wall street got deregulated. did it have anything to do with the fact that wall street provided, spent billions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions? well, some people might think, yeah, that had some influence. >> of course, sanders going on to talk at some length about this. hillary clinton coming back and saying that there is absolutely no evidence that she has ever been influenced by any of the
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campaign contributions she's received, and she demanded that sanders produce evidence. this, of course, is in line with what her campaign has been saying behind the scenes for some time now. the question, whether she succeeded in getting it taken off the table. sanders not letting up and continuing with what is really the foundational message of this campaign, kate. >> and kasie, are they feeling really good this morning? feeling like he has the momentum and had a good night last night? >> i think they feel as though, you know, he went through this successfully. going into this debate, there was a lot of expectations lowering, talking about how many debates hillary clinton has done over the course of her political career, many when she first ran for president in 2008. sanders kn e ers newer to the n debate stage. they felt he had one of the stronger performances to date.
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he talked about her e-mails in the first debate. saying tonight, he's not going to attack her on the subject, but his language has changed a little bit over the course of the campaign. he has now called it a serious issue or he told our own chuck todd that on "meet the press" not that long ago. but on the whole, i think the sanders campaign feels like they're still in this. the question is how close we're starting to see in polling the numbers come closer together. they expect those numbers to tighten considerably before tuesday, kate. >> all right, kasie hunt following that. we'll go back to bernie sanders' event there as soon as it begins. we'll strike to bring that to you live. let's go to kristen welker now. she's been following the clinton campaign for months. i'm sorry you're out in the snow. it's really snowing hard there this morning. she's got another big day. tell me what her folks are saying about last night. >> kate, it's okay to be part of the snow. it comes with the job. i think the clinton campaign feeling like she had a very good night. look, they had one of their most
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robust debates centered around this idea of who is the real progressive? senator sanders has been criticizing secretary clinton for days for her stances on trade, the iraq war, augusting she's not a real progressive. last night, she strongly fired back, saying look at my record. go back to my days as first lady when i fought for children's health care. she also argued if i'm not a progress, doesn't that disqualify all of these other people, including the president, the vice president? this is really a fight about the future for the democratic party, and of course, kate, it also resonates with all of those young voters who are right now really strongly supporting senator sanders. within that argument, a discussion about whether she's a part of the establishment. senator sanders trying to paint her as part of the establishment. here's what she had to say about that. take a listen. >> senator sanders is the only person who, i think, would characterize me, a woman running to be the first woman president,
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as exemplifying the establishment. people support me because they know me, they know my life's work. they have worked with me. and many have also worked with senator sanders. and at the end of the day, they endorse me because they know i can get things done. >> kate, a fascinating exchange because she hasn't in recent months spoken that much about the fact that she would be the first woman president. well, last night, she did. so we'll have to see how effective that is. all of that comes as we're getting a new glimpse at national polling. according to the latest quinnipiac poll, sickitary clinton leads secretary sanders 44% to 42%. that margin has narrowed significantly from december when she led him by nearly 30 points. it gives you a sense of how tight the race is getting all across the country. here, bernie sanders has the strong lead. 20 points. secretary clinton really trying to come back. she has a number of campaign
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events today. her first one kicks off at this ymca behind me and aimed at rallying women voters. she'll be joined by lilly ledbetter, the litigant in the lilly ledbetter fair pay act. kate. >> all right, kristen welker out following the clinton campaign. we'll try to bring you that event too. we try to dip in on every one of the candidates that we can throughout the day on msnbc. i want to bring in glen thrush now. he's here with me, politico's chief political correspondent. also political correspondent for msnbc, steve kornacki, back in new york. steve, let me start with you. four days out, where does the democratic race stand? >> well, there's some indications in some of this polling that it might be tightening a little bit, at least in one of the daily tracking polls. from hillary clinton's standpoint, it's about managing expectations. this line repeated over and over again, bernie sanders has this big advantage because he's from
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a neighboring state. he's from vermont. we talked a little about this yesterday. they're making a lot more of the advantage than is really there. it's really massachusetts candidates with that boston media market who have the big advantage in new hampshire, not so much candidates from vermont. nonetheless, they're looking, i think, to attach a bit of an asterisk to any sanders victory, and also they would like this to look like they did better than expected. that's what bill clinton did in 1992. he came in second place, ended up losing by eight points, but he called himself the comeback kid. he said, look, i was supposed to lose worse than this, so it counts as a moral victory. the clintons would like to get this to single digits. >> let's talk about the national numbers out. the quinnipiac poll came out this morning. it shows even if the early states are kind of close, the clinton campaign has always banked on the rest of the nation being big support for her. but take a look at the numbers this morning. you have hillary clinton at 44, bernie sanders add 42%
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nationwide. that's not a huge lead for her anymore. what do you think is happening here? >> i think what's happening is the same thing that happened in iowa. young people are shifting to bernie sanders. i just got off the phone with one of clinton's closest friends. and this person told me that up in the suite, in the renaissance hotel in iowa, the thing that shocked them were the numbers among youth voters. we saw numbers in a recent poll in new hampshire showing something like 75% or 80% of people under the age of 30 supporting sanders. it's a total -- >> it's not just people, women, too. i remember the other night at the democratic forum when she was asked about young women supporting sanders, she had a look of shock and said, yeah, wow. amazing that he's getting all these young women. >> i'm going to say something shocking. new hampshire does not matter in this campaign. the result has been determined. that was what was so fascinating about last night's debate. these are candidates talking to national audiences.
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clinton, as you said and steve said, brought up women over and over and over again. sanders also talked about flint, michigan. his weakness is with african-americans and latinos. that's what nevada and south carolina are about. >> steve, in the 2008 primary, hillary clinton won here by carrying the heavily populated more moderate southeastern part of this state. is winning those areas -- it's probably not going to be enough for her this time around, right? >> you have that map on the screen there. the green are the clinton areas from 2008. around nashua, the southern part of the state, that's a little more suburban, heavily college educated. if you look to the north there in rochester, getting closer to the lake in the center of the state, a little more blue-collar there, a little more catholic, native born population, and in the green area at the very pop of the state in the north country there, that's heavily native born, the most blue collar working class part of new hampshire. she had that mix going for her in 2008. one of the things we have been seeing and there are indications
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of with bernie sanders is he's making in-roads into the blue collar and working class areas. >> steve breaking down the map for us. glen thrush in new hampshire. thanks for being with us. >> so much ahead as our coverage continues live from manchester. we're waiting to hear from bernie sanders any moment now. fresh off last night's debate. the senator expected to speak at a politics and eggs event here in manchester. >> meanwhile, it looks like a make or break triemary for the trio of republican governors trying to spark their campaigns here. we'll tell you who's gaining ground in the granite state on the republican side up next. >> we just learned the weather has forced donald trump to cancel his 12:30 p.m. event in new hampshire. it's snowing hard outside. he's going to travel on to south carolina later today. want to get their hands on. if they could ever catch you.
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republicans will square off here in new hampshire storm, on saturday, for their final debate ahead of tuesday's first in the nation primary. new polls show the race is tightening. our new poll shows a 13-point lead now for donald trump. and a umass poll out this morning shows trump has a 19-point lead over marco rubio, who remains in second place. that's a move up for marco rubio as well. i'm joined by communicationed consultant drew klein, a marco rubio supporter and former editor for the new hampshire union leader, that paper you don't work for anymore has endorsed chris christie, just for the record. you're with marco roubio. you're having a good time right now. the new polls this morning are looking good. >> my buddy grant who is the editorial leader now, we have a nice rivalry. i'm doing better than he is right now. >> he's the chris christie guy. >> yeah, rubio is doing great.
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ia know, what i find interesting is you have a lot of people in new hampshire now, some other candidates talking about their records, look, what really matters is how many years you've been in politics and all this experience you get. and new hampshire voters aren't buying it. they want leadership. >> you had a moment where rick santorum on "morning joe" couldn't seem to name one accomplishment the senator has made in the congress. was a moment that got a lot of play here. and chris christie, as uknow, and some of the other campaigns jumped over it, saying this is exactly what's wrong with rubio. >> rubio does have accomplishments. the v.a. accountability measure he addressed a bill to allow easier firing of v.a. officials, he got that in the bill. obamacare is a great example. he's the only one running who has actually damaged obamacare. he's got a good record. hezbollah sanctions. >> sanctions votes, i used to cover capitol hill, are votes where almost everybody joins together. >> right, but he led the push on
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that. girls count act, for example. go back to florida, go back to florida when he was speaker of the house. he led the fight for expanding school choice. he's got a long record of reform and getting reform issues pushed through. >> let me ask you, the polls can be kind of fickle. one of the new polls, the umass/lowell poll shows support is soft on the republican side. 42% of republican voters say they could change their mind, which as you know, happens in new hampshire all the time. it's sort of known here. >> ask barack obama. >> exactly. sort of a saying here in new hampshire that the voters wait until the last minute, and there are a lot of independent voter whose can come. it's an open primary. they can change their mind at the last second. >> and they do. >> and they do. what does that mean for marco rubio? what if chris christie or jeb bush with their attacks on rubio, make some headway and bring people out on tuesday? >> that's a very question. i think what you have to look at is how things have played out so far. bush and christie have been making these arguments and
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attacks and going all in in new hampshire for a long time and they're still not getting a lot of traction. what they're doing now i find very interesting. instead of talking about their vision for the future and why you should vote for them, they're kind of panicking and lashing out at rubio. rubio is succeeding, i think in large part, because he's talking about a vision for the future, uniting republicans, uniting the country, and coming together around a shared vision. you're not getting that kind of argument from the other governors. i find that a bad strategy on their part. tell the people why we should vote for you. >> we were talking about dt "on trump's event canceled for the weather. roads are terrible. he's going straight to south carolina today. ted cruz, some of his folks were telling me yesterday that they think that donald trump's favorability numbers here are dropping a bit. while he's leading in the polls, and we should point that out, he's still leading in the polls here, there's a sense that maybe he's losing some traction here. >> he absolutely is.
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i can see this when i go to events. not just rubio events, but particularly rubio events, you find people who come in as trump supporters, walk out either rubio supporters or having second thoughts. there's definitely a trajectory where trump support is going down and rubio support is going up. you can see this in the poll numbers. >> drew klein, thanks for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> editorial page editor for the new hampshire -- used to be, former, for the new hampshire union leader. >> up next, fact checking the democratic candidates after last night's debate. >> and later, the republicans get another chance to debate tomorrow. the final matchup before tuesday's first in the nation primary. and new polling to show you. we'll take a quick break. proof . and clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms.
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financial crisis and how to avoid another one. ari melber is here to fact check some of the claims made in last night's debate. >> i'm here, kate. can you hear he? >> yes, i can. >> fantastic. what i want to tell you about is first, take a listen to hillary clinton and bernie sanders talking about their records. let's play this. >> i have great respect for senator sanders' commitment to try to restore glass stooesal, but i do not believe that is enough, and in fact, i don't believe it really addresses a lot of the biggest issues we have. >> go to youtube today. look up greenspan sanders. listen to what i told them then. i helped lead the effort against deregulation. >> so two key assertions there on the policy, kate. one is hillary clinton basically saying that this obsession with this deregulatory act is not the
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whole story of wall street. two, bernie sanders saying he was right from the beginning and pushing back on alan greenspan before it was cool, before it was popular. and he even implored everyone to go to youtube. the second clip i want to show you is some of their exchanges which are interesting in financial hindsight. let's take a look at that. >> you talk about an improving economy while we have lost 3 million private sector jobs in the last two years, long-term unemployment has more than tripled. unemployment is higher than it has been since 1994. does any of this matter to you? do you give one wit of concern to the middle class and working families of this country? >> i found a flaw. i don't know how significant or permanent it is. but i have been very distressed by that fact. >> and so you see there, again, to set the stage of the time, this is a period where alan greenspan initially was hailed as a kind of financial genius,
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that the united states may have gotten out of a cyclical economy, the idea of breakthroughs and derivatives were rescuing the economy. on the hillary clinton side, she is correct that the line between commercial and investment banking in the regulation i mentioned was not the whole story. there were a lot of other factors in the financial crisis. >> we'll come back to you later for more on that. >> we want to jump over to bernie sanders, at his first event since the debate last night. manchester, new hampshire. >> about nine months ago. and when we began our campaign on a beautiful day in burlington, vermont, there were a lot of media pundits who were commenting on my hair. on my attire. but the truth is that not too many of them thought that we had
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much of a chance to do well. a lot has changed in the last nine months. and i think the reason for that is that we are discussing issues that for a variety of reasons are not often discussed in our country. and i think what we are tapping into is a feeling of ordinary americans that there is something profoundly wrong with the government that seems every day to be deeply concerned about the interest of the welty and the powerful, but somehow ignores working people and the middle class and paid virtually no attention at all to poverty. so i think the success of our campaign is talking truth in a straightforward way to the american people. and understanding that no
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president, not bernie sanders or anybody else, can bring about the changes that we need in this country alone. that what needs to happen is that we need what i call a political revolution, which means that millions of people who today have given up on the political process, people who do not believe their vote matters, people who do not pay attention to what goes on, often because they don't get the information they need to even make decent judgments because media to a significant degree sees politics as a football game or as a soap opera, rather than a discussion of the real issues facing our country. so maybe i'm an old fashioned new englander, but i kind of look at politics in a democracy as not very different than going to a doctor's office. if you're not feeling well, you go to the doctor's office. you say, doc, what's wrong with me? what's the diagnosis and how do
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i get bet? that's really what politics and democracy is. you may disagree with me. what are the problems and how do we solve those problems? that is something that we spend far, far too little discussing. so let me lay out what i believe, and i think many americans believe are problems. when we talk about our great country, intrinsic in what we talk about is the understanding that historically, what america is about is fairness. is fairness. is democracy. is everybody having a fair shot. that's kind of what we mean when we talk about america. that's what we grew up believing. that's what we learned in school. so then we got to lay issues out on the table. i want you to think about it. is it fair, is it appropriate, is it american that we have more income and wealth and equality
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than any major country on earth today and it's worse in america than any time since 1928. why is that? why is that? did some terrible natural disaster hit america? no. in fact, what has happened is everybody in this room knows is technology has exploded in the last 20 or 30 years. most people are producing much more. working productivity is going up. all of you are producing more because you have the tools to produce more. if that is true, why does it happen that millions of people today in inflation adjusted for dollars are earning significantly less than they did years ago? you want to know why people are angry? the median male worker, the man in the middle of the economy, is earning $700 less in inflation adjusted for dollars than that person did 41 years ago.
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41 years ago. a woman earning $1,000 less in inflation adjusted for dollars than she did in 2007. well, maybe we should have some discussions about that issue. why? what's going on? in terms of wealth distribution, you tell me whether you think america should be the country where the top one tenth of 1%, not 1%, one tenth of 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. is that the america we grew up believing in? is that the kind of country we think we should live in? one tenth of 1%? owning almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. i know some of my republican friends get very nervous when we talk about redistribution of wealth. well, i want everybody in this room to know there has been a massive redistribution of wealth in the last 30 years. hasn't been on the front pages
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of the "new york times," haven't seen it on cbs or abs. what do you think has gone on in the economy? trillions of dollars have flown from the middle class to the top one tenth of 1% who now own twice the percentage of wealth that they did 30 years ago. today in america, we have the top 20 people, 20 wealthiest people, owning more wealth than the bottom 50%, 150 million people. today in america, you have one family, the walton family of walmart, owning more wealth than the bottom 40%. when i talk about our economy, i use a term called a rigged economy. people like elizabeth warrenp and i use that term. what does that mean, a rigged economy? let me give you one of many examples. walton family is the wealthiest family in america.
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they own walmart. you all know that. it turns out that the walton family, in my view, is the major recipient of public welfare in america. what do i mean by that? what i mean is that the wages they pay their workers are so low that many of their workers, and they, by the way, are now the largest private sector employer in america, that many of their workers are on medicaid, are on food stamps, or are in subsidized housing, which you are paying for in your taxes. your taxes go to pay for medicaid and food stamps and subsidized housing. >> we're listening to bernie sanders speak at a politics and eggs breck fstz in manchester, new hampshire. his first appearance since coming off the debate stage last night with hillary clinton. much of the democratic campaign has been waged on issues that you might consider bernie sanders turf, like wall street
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ties, economic inequality, the progressive title and mantle, but thursday's debate featured a shift into foreign policy, an area that clinton aides say plays to her strength. sanders tried to keep clinton on the defensive by bringing up the same vote then candidate barack obama brought up in 2008, the vote to authorize the war in iraq. >> where we have a different background on this issue is we differed on the war in iraq, which created barbaric organizations like isis. >> look, we did differ. a vote in 2002 is not a plan to defeat isis. we have to look at the threats that we face right now. and we have to be prepared to take them on and defeat them. >> jamie reuben was a top official at the state department under president clinton and worked with hillary clinton's presidential campaign back in 2008. he joins me now from london. nice to see you.
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>> nice to see you. >> let's talk about last night, and we just heard that sound bite about her iraq war vote. clinton has spent years trying to downplay that vote. is there merit to sanders' argument that that war in iraq gave rise to isis? >> well, no. i think what gave rise to isis was the decision to have plowed our troops from iraq in 2011, and that made it possible, that chaos made it possible for isis to be created. but just as important, of course, was that the chaos in syria. the decision by the world to stay out of a civil war that's been probably the worst civil war in humanitarian disaster in recent memory. there's a lot of reasons isis was created. and i think it's just very important that we remember that that was 15 years ago, what we're talking about, the debate
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on iraq first began after 9/11. a lot has happened since then. the world has changed a lot since then. there's been an era of awakening, a new issue with russia. i just think that it's important for us to focus on what the challenges are today, and they're different. the world is different than it was 15 years ago. i'm different. i suspect hillary clinton is different. maybe bernie sanders is the same. but you would hope that people would grow in the reality that they're facing, like the vice president who voted for the iraq war, or the secretary of state kerry, who voted for the iraq war. people grow. and i think it's sort of a shame we're still talking about that. >> let me ask you about something else that came up last night. this is a newer issue, iran. both candidates were asked about foreign policy when it comes to iran and normalizing relations. take a look. >> if we were to normalize relations right now, we would remove one of the biggest pieces
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of leverage we have to try to influence and change iranian behavior. the president doesn't think we should. i certainly don't think we should. i believe we have to take this step by step to try to rein in iranian aggression, their support for terrorism, and the other bad behavior that can come back and haunt us. >> who said that i think we should normalize relations with iran tomorrow? i never said that. i think we should move forward as quickly as we can. and you're right. they are a sponsor of terrorism around the world. and we have to address that. but you know, a number of years ago, people were saying normal relationship with cuba? what a bad and silly idea. they're communists. they're our enemy. change has come. so please don't suggest that i think we normalize relations with tehran tomorrow. we don't. but i would like to see us move forward and hopefully some day that will happen. >> is there a real distinction here between the two candidates,
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or do you think either democrat if they were in the white house would eventually move toward normalizing relations? >> i think there is a difference. this is bernie sanders has now clarified a little bit, but i think in the past he's not said that he wants to do it right away. he signaled that that is the goal in the first instance. while hillary clinton has emphasized the first order goal is to stop iran from doing things in the region that are dangerous, such as their support for bashar al assad, which has caused the war in syria, which has created millions of refugees in europe and elsewhere. their support for extremist groups in lebanon. their policy of seeking to take advantage of change in that part of the world to become the greatest power in that part of the world. it's a difference of emphasis, but i think it's a signal that hillary clinton wouldn't be talking about cuba and iran in
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the same answer, as if they're the same problem. cuba is a very, very different issue. there wasn't a threat to the united states from cuba. nobody thought there was. it was a question of how do you change communism in cuba. this is a case where there is danger, there is a threat. iran is part of the reason why the world has become a more dangerous place. so i think that is a difference. >> jamie rubin, i know you're not working for the campaign this time around, but appreciate your insight. thanks so much. >> thank you. on the republican side, donald trump retains his strong lead in new hampshire, but that margin is shrinking a bit. new hampshire could be make or break for the so-called establishment candidates. although at least one, jeb bush, has made it pretty clear he's staying in the race no matter what. in the meantime, he's taking aim at the man currently leading the establishment pack, marco rubio. >> his record of accomplishment is slim. he was speak er of the house an did a fine job there, but every
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speaker before him and after him but one that worked with both of us is supporting me. and with three state-wide elected officials in florida are supporting me. it's not that they don't like marco. he's a likable person. they saw me in action as a leader. leadership is about making tough decisions. and this job particularly, you need a commander in chief that has a steady hand, that's had adversity in their life, who has setbacks, who understands how to make tough decisions. i think that is important, and it's certainly important as it related to forgen consensus about fixing things for people. >>. >> i want to bring in former new hampshire governor and senator judd gregg, endorsing jeb bush. he joins me now at jd's tavern in new hampshire. nice to have you here. appreciate it. in the latest poll -- >> thank you for coming to new hampshi hampshire.
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>> i love coming to new hampshire. bush is running fifth place, 9% in the latest poll. that's exactly the same amount he had a month ago. i was at a bush town hall not too long ago here in new hampshire. the voters seemed to like him a lot. they said things to me like he's smart, he knows the issues. he's intelligent inside out. but they're more excited when they talk about marco rubio. how do you combat that? >> first off, i don't think the polls are relevant in new hampshire. historically, they haven't been relevant. the one thing predictable about new hampshire is it is unpredictable. that poll specifically had a 209-person sample. i never took a poll, i ran nine state-wide events and never took a poll. what's happening in new hampshire is there's a movement occurring. trump has maybe 25% of the vote, but the other 75% of the vote is not with him. those folks are deciding right now who they're going to be with. i think you'll see a significant
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move, and it wouldn't surprise me if one or two candidates tied trump or at least one beat trump. and the folks who are coming up on the outside, so to say, are clearly three governors. two governors and rubio. jeb bush and christie. >> not christie, kasich. >> chris is working hard, but i don't since he has the movement that jeb has or potentially kasich has. i think that you're going to see new hampshire voters surprise people. >> is there a coordination going on between jeb bush campaign and the chris christie campaign in terms of attacking marco rubio? that's been reported. >> reported in the "new york times" and both campaigns denied it. it could be stupid to do that. that would be foolish. i mean, new hampshire voters respond to substance. and they're very interested in having on the republican side a candidate who is win, who is substantive on complex issues like national defense and health care and entitlement reform and who can govern. i think jeb's strength is that
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he meets all three of those criterias. >> let me ask about his family. his mother, barbara bush, was on the trail with him last night. >> i was there. >> she's going do another event today. i hope the snow doesn't stop that. >> doesn't stop barbara. >> meantime, his brother is running an ad. we have a clip we can play. >> i know jeb. i know his good heart and his strong backbone. jeb will unite our country. he knows how to bring the worth together against terror. he knows when tough measures must be taken. experience and judgment count in the oval office. >> in a campaign where people seem to want outsiders, i had a voter say to me yesterday, i love jeb bush, but i don't think i can vote for a bush again. >> if that were true, hillary would be dead. she's been in washington since 1992. i think as a practical matter, people are looking for the person who is lead the country the best. what the president said there on
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the issues of national security, jeb knows what he's doing and has a backbone. on domestic issues. equally so. his record in florida is exceptional. as i said earlier, my view of governing, and i was in the business for a long time, representing new hampshire, is you don't stand in the corner and shout. you get in the middle of the ring. you work with the other side, and you reach consensus where you can and move forward. >> senator judd gregg, thank you for being with us. >> back to the democrats now. hillary clinton plans to leave here on sunday and head to flint, michigan. she'll look at the lead contaminated water crisis first-hand and says she's going to help push for federal aid for the city. last night, both democratic candidates weighed in on the on-going disaster there. >> what is being done is not sufficient. we need to be absolutely clear about everything that should be done from today to tomorrow, into the future, to try to remedy the terrible burden that the people of flint are bearing.
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>> the idea that there has not been a dramatic response is beyond comprehension. >> i'm joined now by michigan representative dan kildee, his district includes the city of flint. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> it came up last night at the debate. you have hillary clinton heading there on sunday. a lot of us haven't really been following the day-to-day for the past week. i speak for myself. i have been so immersed in new hampshire, in politics, that we haven't been following. there's an article today in the detroit free press saying the water filters seem to be helping. finally some good news? >> well, i hope it's good news. obviously, we don't want people dependent on water lead filters. we want the water itself to be safe. it could be weeks or months before that's the case. but the point that's been made and our presidential candidates have been making this point as well, the state of michigan, which did this to flint, it was an entirely state decisions that
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led to this, need to step up in a way equal to the challenge. so that flint residents are not just focused on bottled water or whether their lead filter is working but that they can have a water system that delivers drinkable water, and most importantly now, that the government steps up and provides the kind of help to especially kids, but also to other people and families that have had lead exposure so this is not a crisis that lasts forever in flint. we need help for the people in flint, and the governor has not provided the kind of leadership we need. i have introduced legislation which is comprehensive in its nature to help the city of flint move forward. senator stabenow and peters have been working very hard in the senate. we need a response equal to the gravity of this crisis. >> congressman, is it helpful to have the politicians, the candidates talking about it now at a national level, or is it getting in the way in any way? >> well, i think it helps.
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any time, and any voice that will speak up for the people of flint, no matter what their partisan stripe or ideology, we will take it. flint needs -- people need to understand across the country that's what's happened in flint is wrong. that it was caused by the government, by the state government, and it requires a governmental response. i testified at the oversight and government reform hearing, and there were democratic and republicans outraged. whether it translates to help for the people of flint remains to be seen, but it starts with an understanding hof how seriou this problem is, and our candidates for president have helped to elevate the conversation in that. >> representative dan kildee, thanks so much for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. back in 2008, the last time hillary clinton ran in the primary here, she was asked a simple question in a diner. how do you do it? and her response, you probably remember, led to a pivotal moment in her political career, and a side of her that a lot of
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people hadn't seen publicly until then. >> it's not easy. it's not easy. and i couldn't do it if i just didn't, you know, passionately believe it was the right thing to do. you know, i have so many opportunities in this country, i don't want to see us fall backwards. >> i was standing about ten feet from her when that moment happened. msnbc national reporter irin carmon has been reporting on women voters during this campaign. you caught up with the woman who asked that question in the room, right? >> yes, it's funny. if you walk to marianne about this now, here's what she has to say. >> i know it's going to be on my tombstone. she's the woman who made hillary clinton cry.
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>> so as you know, eight years ago, hillary clinton was very much down in the polls here in new hampshire. nobody expected her to pull it through. but that particular moment of vulnerability with hillary clinton was attributed to why it was that she pulled through on the strength of women voters. the funny thing is mar eann did not vote for her. >> i forgot that. >> a long time. she voted for obama. she said she thought it was more inspirational that he was a fresh face, and this time around, she's very much undecided. when i chatted with her yesterday, she had seen hillary clinton at the town hall and really felt like she again saw this vulnerable side. i think she has honestly like a lot of women, very conflicting, complicated feelings on the one hand, wanting to see a female president, on the other hand, ambivalent about hillary clinton's record. here's what she had to say. >> because i want to believe in her. at the same time, her history
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keeps popping into my head. it keeps clouding my judgment. >> she's still making up her mind. she said she'll make up her mind in the voting booth. >> like so many new hampshire voters. irin, thank you so much. great to see her again. >> up next, we'll go inside the spin room for a look at what hillary clinton and bernie sanders' surrogates really thought about last night's democratic showdown. >> and look at the snow coming down in new hampshire. a winter storm already impacting candidates' schedules. we'll be back right here on msnbc. we were below the 88th southern parallel. we had traveled for over 850 miles. my men driven nearly mad from starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save
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so, reaction continues to pour in this morning to last night's fierce democratic debate. i had a chance to be in the spin room, watch the debate last night. went looking for reaction from both sides, along with dnc chair debbie wasserman schultz. but this was not your typical
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debate reaction. we decided to play a little game of word association. >> bernie sanders. >> great. >> hillary clinton. >> nice. >> debate. >> vigorous. >> hillary clinton. >> the next president. >> bernie sanders. >> runner-up. >> tonight's debate. >> great for hillary. >> democratic debate. >> intense. >> bernie sanders. >> passionate. >> hillary clinton. >> leader. >> new hampshire voters. >> kicking the tires. >> primary in new hampshire. >> winnable. >> new hampshire voters. >> amazing. >> next tuesday. >> a good fight. >> voters here in new hampshire. >> very independent. >> new hampshire primary. >> fun. >> what's critical? >> winning. >> new hampshire primary. >> inclusive. >> biggest moment tonight. >> the substance of the debate.
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>> super bowl. >> i'm watching. >> you know who's playing? >> no. i take that back. the eagles? i'm not sure. i'm on the campaign trail. >> super bowl sunday? >> i haven't even paid attention. charlotte. >> okay. all right. at least you know who's playing. >> super bowl sunday. >> ah -- i do know who's in it, yes. >> that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. i'm kate snow. i'll see you back here at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. tamron hall picks it up from here. the microsoft cloud allows us to access information from anywhere. the microsoft cloud allows us to scale up. microsoft cloud changes our world dramatically. it wasn't too long ago it would take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome. now, we can do a hundred per day. with the microsoft cloud we don't have to build server rooms. we have instant scale.
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♪ [screaming] ♪ ♪ the bold nissan rogue, with intuitive all wheel drive. because winter needs a hero. now get a $199 per month lease on the 2016 nissan rogue. nissan. innovation that excites. good morning, everyone. i'm tamron hall. we're back live in new hampshire, as you can see, where it's getting down to the wire
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for presidential candidates. right now, bernie sanders is addressing voters at the politics and eggs breakfast. that's a pretty popular campaign event here in manchester. and we have gotten word in donald trump is now cancelling an event planned in londonberry due to the weather. we'll have much more on what impact it could have. let's look at some of the new polls that have come in just four days before the primary. our newest nbc/"wall street journal" maris poll has bernie sanders with a solid 20-point lead over hillary clinton. it comes on the heel of the pretty intense one-on-one debate we watched last night, which as the "washington post" notes, was, quote, far more intense and far more personal than it has been in the previous face-offs reflecting how close the race has become. one of the biggest clashes came over clinton's ties to wall street. >> being part of the establishment is, is in the last


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