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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  July 29, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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work. >> tonight clinton clams up. >> if you look at both the trade agreement and the keystone decision i will certainly express my opinion when there is something to express an opinion about. i am sorry if people want me to. i've been very clear i will not express an opinion. >> plus procrastinating politicians. >> with congress's long august recess within reach. lawmakers still have a number of issues to tackle when that break starts. >> there are going to be a number of issues that are moved fast. >> i'm going to do everything i can to get to a long-term highway bill by the end of october. >> the comment about the holocaust and the ovens and the iran deal. where do you stand on that? >> i mean i'm okay with it. >> good to have you with us tonight. thanks for watching. we start with two very important issues. every single american should care about. because it is going to effect
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the climate and it is going to effect our economy in the long run. the trans pacific partnership and the keystone xl pipeline. no they are not old tired issues. they are staring this country in the face. we've devoted time to both issues. i've traveled to nebraska and met with the landowners who would have the keystone xl pipeline running right through their land. and eminent domain is a big issue there now. i heard their concerns with property rights and environmental issues. they don't want a big pipe filled with poison running through their water supply or on top of it and that is a big risk. and i've also visit those effected by the trans pacific partnership and ohio and jobs being lost because of the bad free trade agreements the country has embarked on. these are hugely important
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issues that environmental groups deeply care about. that lean left and to the democrats. meanwhile the democratic front runner is refusing to take a position on both of these issues. on tuesday hillary clinton gave this non answer on the keystone xl pipeline. >> as president, would you sign a bill yes or no please n favor of allowing the keystone xl plain? >> well as you know i was the secretary of state who started that process. i was the one who put into place the investigation. i have now passed it off, as obvious because i'm no longer there to secretary kerry. this is president obama's decision. and i am not going to second guess him. because i was in a position to set this in motion. and i do not think that would be the right thing to do. so i want to wait and see what
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he and secretary kerry decide. if it is undecided when i become president, i will answer your question. >> a short time later, clinton doubled down on her refusal to answer the question. >> i was involved in this process. and my assessment is that it is not appropriate nor fair for me to pre judge in a public arena what secretary kerry and president obama eventually have to decide. and therefore i will not do it. and i am sorry if people want me to. i've been very clear. i will not express an opinion until they have made a decision. and then i will do so. >> that is such a dodge. just a day after promising not to answer the question clinton sent out a tweet saying this. we're not going back to denying climate change. if you ask most of these republican candidates about that they will say sorry i'm not a scientist. look i'm not a scientist either
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i'm just a grandmother with two eyes and a brain. she's also one of the most powerful political figures in this country and people deserve an answer not just a grandmother. it is easy to attack republicans on climate change. i believe if clinton wants to be serious about climate change she has to take a stand on the keystone xl pipeline because of what's going to be in it. tar sands oil. and then the trans pacific partnership. clinton is refusing to take a position on the tpp. she is using the same excuse for not taking a stand on keystone. >> if you look at both the trade agreement and the keystone decision i will certainly express my opinion when there is something to express an opinion about. right now anybody whose talking about this really has to be shooting in the dark because we don't know what's either going to be in the trade agreement. and my hope is that my concerns
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that have been made both publicly and privately to the administration will certainly effect how this trade agreement is written and agreed to. and similarly on keystone it is likely to be decided in this administration. but if it is not, i will have responsibility. and you know i don't want to make too much of this because i'm very clear and have been consistently that i do not think it appropriate for me to comment on something that i had official responsibilities for until it is completed. and that i might have official responsibilities for again. so that is where i stand. >> okay. she's got that answer down pretty good. but again, i think it is a political dodge. there is no law anywhere that says that the person running for president can't comment on any issue under the sun. it is not going to put anymore pressure on president obama. it is not going to put anymore pressure on secretary of state john kerry, who works for the president. if hillary clinton i think who
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wants to be the next president of the united states, she needs to step out and she needs to come clean and needs to answer on these two very important issues. they effect climate change, the environment and the outsourcing of american jobs which of course the republicans really don't seem to care about. get your cell phones out. tonight's question will hillary clinton's refusal to take a position on the tpp and keystone xl hurt her in the long run? go to to cast your vote. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. for more let me bring in senator bernie sanders of vermont who was running for president. senator, good to have you with us. you have reacted to her refusal to give an answer on keystone. secretary clinton has come back and said that bringing this up is shooting in the dark. what is your response to that? >> i strongly disagree. we know exactly where the oil is coming from.
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it is tar sands oil. the issue here is ed if we are serious about combatting climate change, which the scientists tell us is the major environmental crisis facing our planet, we have got to do everything we can to prevent the excavation and transportation of the some of the dirtiest fossil fuel on earth. i think this keystone pipeline idea is a terrible idea. i'm against it and frankly i think secretary clentinton should be speaking out on the issue. >> she says that because she was secretary of state it is not appropriate for her to comment on these two major issues. what is your reaction to that? is that political cover or is there merit to that answer as you see it? >> no i don't think there is merit to that answer. she is a candidate for president of the united states. climate change is a great issue all of us have got to deal with and i think the people are entitled to no e her opinion on
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the issue. >> it is true her she did start the study on this, which was later debunked because there were conflict of interests going on and the state deputyartment had to come back and do another one. so they are not operating under the same investigation as the state did under her watch as secretary of state does that have merit? >> they did studies and fine when she was secretary of state. we can argue about the meritorious not merits. the point is she's not secretary of state now. she's a candidate for the president of the united states. this is enormously important. you could say you are for it. you could say you are against it but i think should have an upon that issue. >> do you think her non committal is going to help your campaign because you have been so crystal clear on it? >> well i think, ed that people are willing to say well i disagree with somebody.
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but i think there is a feeling that people should at least have an opinion on the most important trade agreement ever entered into by the united states of america. i happen to think tpp is the continuation of disastrous trade policies which have cost us millions of jobs. i'm against it. secretary should have a position on it. i think that the keystone pipeline is excavating and transporting some of the dirtest fuel on earth. i think if we're serious about addressing climate change the secretary should have an opinion on that as well. >> well if she is for doing something about climate change what difference does it make who the president is now or what decision's on his desk? i guess my question is is he loyalty to the climate and the fuch of the future of the country or the president of the united states who hasn't made a decision.
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>> it's not a question of loyalty. she's a candidate. you can dupree with theagree with the president. you can disagree. but when running for office -- and these two of the monumental issues we're facing -- i think it is obligatory to speak out and tell the people what your view is. >> against the tpp yet secretary clinton refuses to take a position on that. what is the hold up here? as you see it. what would be the hold up. the deal is about 99% done. they are down to small issues when it comes to the canadians and the dairy products and how much they have to accept. this deal to everybody i talk to just about there. her refusal to give a position is this an opening for you? >> is this something your campaign is going to highlight? >> well look ed i think what the american people want is to
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know your views on the important issues. and of course we have and will highlight this. look, again, you know, i think -- and every trade union in america as you have just indicated, understands that our trade policies have been disastrous. they have cost us millions of jobs. they are forcing american workers to compete against people who make pennies an hour. we've lost 60,000 factories since 2001. and i think what the american people are saying we need a new trade direction. we need corporate america to invest in this country, creating jobs in this country rather than abroad. that is my view. the secretary can agree, she can disagree. but i think you have to have a position on that issue, on keystone. you can't quite not, you know, have a clear stated position. >> senator, there is quite a debate going on in congress right now about the iranian nuclear deal that the president obviously wants to see the
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congress approve. the majority of americans, a slight majority of americans say that the congress should not approve it. what is your position on this? and what happens if the congress does not approve this? where does this leave us with iran in your opinion? >> well i think the last part of your question is the $64 question here ed. i have not made a definitive statement on my view. i am leaning towards supporting the agreement based on what i know. i've got some meetings coming up in the next week which will provide some important answers to me. i applaud the president and i applaud secretary kerry for doing everything they can to try to make sure that iran does not have a nuclear weapon. and you do that without a war. a war would be a terrible terrible thing. and i got to tell you, ed i get very nervous hearing some of my republican friends apparently not knowing what the war in afghanistan was about, what the
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war in iraq was about and are talking about blightly about oh well we may have to go to war about iran. i worry about that very much. there are questions i still have that i want to see answered. >> and what is your number one question? >> my number one question is whether or not this agreement in fact is verifiable whether in fact iran is going to do what they say they will do. >> okay. senator tell us about your grassroots gathers tonight. i understand it is something that is almost of a record proportion. what is going on tonight? >> well ed, it is. i think it is kind of unprecedented. tonight about 7:00 we are going to be holding some 3,000 organizational meetings. we think about 100,000 people have signed up. and the purpose of this meeting is to help people get deeply involved in the campaign at a grassroots level. i think we're going to win this
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thing if we can put together a strong grassroots movement. tonight is an important first step in putting that movement together. >> how encouraged are you by the recent polling? you have not taken a step back since this whole thing started. >> we're feeling pretty good. and what i'm especially feeling good about is the match ups with republicans. a lot of people with say well bernie sanders, good ideas, nice guy. but he can't defeat republicans. turns out we were ahead in a recent cnn poll of both scott walker donald trump and jeb bush. and, you know, i think we're running strong against the republicans. i think we can defeat them. and i think our job now is to win the primary and caucus process. >> senator bernie sanders, best of luck to you. good to have you with us here tonight on the "ed show." appreciate your time. thanks so much. remember to answer teents question at pulse com ed.
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we'll have the results after the break. follow us on facebook like us there. appreciate that p and watch my facebook feature give me a minute. donald trump say he's on board with mike huckabee's holocaust comments. stay with us. shopping online... as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit today.
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the keystone xl pipeline and the trans pacific partnership. you just heard senator bernie sanders give his take on both issues. the question for democratic voters is will these issues make them less likely to believe in one candidate or the other? joining me now is howard dean. former government of vermont and former presidential candidate. governor dean i'll go to you first on this. secretary clinton says she can't give an answer because she was secretary of state. does that give her political cover? or is that a legitimate reason she can't answer two of the biggest questions out there right now. >> i think it was legitimate because she was in charge of making a recommendation to president obama. and i'm not sure what was in that recommendation. but the president may well act on this before the end of his
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term. i suspect he will. so for her to take -- step outside her role as the candidate and reveal what she recommended to president obama in this process i don't think is right. so i don't think she has a lot of choice about the keystone pipeline. >> how can you be an advocate for doing something about climate change and even think about allowing tar sands oil to come to market governor? >> well the truth about the keystone pipeline is, what it really is an effort to keep oil in the ground which is a position that i think a position a lot of environmentalists take. burning oil creates a lot of carbon in the atmosphere. the fact that it's tar sands oil is not -- the case is not quite as compelling. people are focusing on that. but the real agenda is stopping burning fossil fuels at all. by own view of the coasten pipeline is that it probably has some environmental consequences
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but not very much relative to the real goal which is to stop burning fossil fuels and start burning renewables. >> this would be red meat to republicans. can't get hillary on the record. her own party can't get her on the record. what do you think about that? >> i think at this point the ones looking and trying to figure out hillary's position are the democratic voters. what you are seeing is she doesn't want to give direct responses. however when you look at tpp when she was secretary of state she said it was a gold standard and now she may have to flip-flop on the issue. i think she has ore own troubles in the campaign trying to give that straightforward answer this you are seeing with bernie sanders. it is interesting. senator sanders just comes out and makes a very straightforward answer. and i think what you are seeing is for example in states like iowa and new hampshire, voters are responding. they like it. they want to see more of it. and i think it is just unfortunate for hillary clinton if she doesn't come forward and really state what she's thinking
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about, especially on keystone and on the other issues. >> governor dean is that bernie sanders strength right now, his straight talk on issues? >> definitely. he's always been a straight talker and not afraid to make decisions about issues. but there is something -- a little something here that we're forgetting. hillary clinton was a member of obama's administration. she has a view on tpp which is probably the state department's view, which in fact -- and i personally share this view. i have a lot of concerns about tpp. however tpp is really important to the united states geo geopolitically because of what's going on in the south china sea. and i spent time in vietnam and that is the first thing on their agenda is some sort of tpp. so this is not an issue. and bernie because he is not an incumbent gets to say whatever he wants. hillary clinton because she's served in this administration has to be much more careful about what she says about things
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that have a huge effect on international relationships. and i think as the former secretary of state she understands that. >> does this mercedes play into the poll where a lot of people think hillary isn't trustworthy? if you can't give a straight answer i imagine it plays into that. maybe i'm wrong. your thoughts. >> it could be part of that but i think what's driving her poll numbers down on that question of trustworthiness is clearly her inability to talk about the private server and the e-mails and the deleted e-mails and that whole controversy in addition to the clinton foundation situation. i think those two are the big drivers for hillary clinton. i think just not bogeing able to give a direct answer. we saw on cnn saying she sounded rusty. it didn't come across genuine. those are issues playing into the fact that i believe voters are questioning her
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trustworthiness. >> governor do you think people care about her e-mails? >> no. and i'm not worried about this issue. i do agree with mercedes that that's what's driven her poll numbers down. but what's going to happen is exactly what happened when all the clinton foundation blew up. there is no story there. it was a lie. the "new york times" has run front page stories that have been untruthful twice and gotten caught both times. it is going to sink in that isn't true. this is another attempt to smear hillary clinton and the clintons. just like what itite water. i'm not worried in the long run. >> and mermercedes can a candidate like bernie sanders make some real head wi in a campaign or movement without running a negative ad. >> i think that is going to be quite dilt for him to not run a negative ad at some point.
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when you look, for example, anyone who's run a campaign negative ads actually do work. i think it is difficult to stay away from that. as we know again voters respond to negative campaigns. it is interesting they say we don't want to see it. but we know that can shift poll numbers. for bernie sanders he has other difficult issues to deal with. building a grassroots coalition. really reaching out to the african american community and latino community. so he's going to have other issues to deal with. besides not running a negative ad. >> all right. mercedes, and governor dean, stay with us. we've got huckabee and trump talk coming up a little later on. tom brady plays defense saying he did nothing wrong after the nfl upholds his suspension for deflategate deflategate. and outrage after a minnesota dentist kills a well known lion in africa, next. when you're not confident you have complete
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welcome back to the "ed show." the brutal slaying of beloved cecil the lion in zimbabwe is causing an up roar worldwide tonight. the minnesota dentist who killed the animal is now speaking out. walter palmer sent a letter to his patients say i understand and respect not shareeveryone shares the same views on hunting. >> he was known as the pride of zimbabwe. cecil the lion. the most famous animal in that country's national parks. a favorite of locals and tourists around the world. until earlier this month, when the 13-year-old big cat was killed by an american hunter. according to conservation officials cecil was lured out of the game preserve shot first with a bow and arrow.
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then 40 hours after being stalked the severely animal was finished off with a gun, skinned and beheaded. on tuesday the name of the man responsible for the killing was revealed. 55-year-old walter palmer a minneapolis dentist and lifelong game hunter. the killing sparked outrage from around the world and on social media. >> rich americans flying to africa and killing these animals for sport to mount them on their wau walls is just unacceptable. >> comedian jimmy kimmel choked up. >> the big question is why are you shooting a lion in the first place? if you want to make this into a positive you can -- sorry. i'm -- okay. i'm good. >> in a statement, palmer who pled guilty to a license violation after shooting a black bear in wisconsin in 2008 says he hired professional guides in zimbabwe, secured a all the proper permits and has not been contacted by the authorities.
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adding in part "i deeply regret my pursuit of an activity i love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion." for critics it wasn't enough. some leaving stuffed toy animals at his home and dental office which abruptly closed yesterday. zimbabwe's game officials have arrested the guides on charges of poaching and are looking to talk with the dentist. >> here are the facts. big game hunting is controversial, but it is regulated as a sport and it is a big business to folks in that country. the kind of hunting walter palmer was doing is known as canned hunting or captive hunts. the humane society defines them as the opposite of fair chase. they pay to kill animals, even endangered species trapped behind fences. there are a number of well known people who are interested in this kind of hunting.
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relationship presidential front runner donald trump's sons reportedly do big game hunting in africa. trump said i'm not a believer in hunting and i'm surprised they like it. montgomery gentry pleaded guilty to charges of falsely registering a captive bear cub as the wild kill. the owner of jimmy john's gourmet sandwiches. and perhaps the most well known is former vice president dick cheney. so the issue is this. it is a problem with a lot of people. but in that country it is legal and it is big business. so is the problem the kill or the law or both? still co-come on the "ed show," more. i'm courtney reagan with your cnbc market wraps. stocks end higher on this fed
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and we are back on the "ed show." thanks for watching tonight. mike huckabee has taken full advantage of his kroempl holocaust statement. his media blitzes included an interview with a sympathetic sean hannity on fox. >> i applaud you. we reached a modern day holocaust. that is a fact.
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why is that controversial. >> overwhelmingly the people whosupport from people who understand what i said and why i said is it incredibly positive. >> donald trump thinks the slam on iranian nuclear agreement is okay. >> i'm okay with it. i think he's a very good guy huckabee by the way. what mike has done is hate nerve and he's made people think a little bit. if he says it nice and softly maybe that is not the way it is. >> trump blasted jeb bush for chastising huckabee's tone. >> some people are, you know, saying oh the tone. and i saw jeb bush who i think is also a nice person. but it is not about tone. i mean, they are chopping off christian's heads in syria and other places and we're worried about tone. >> trump is sticking by huckabee. and it has nothing do with iran. it is the state of republican politics. fox news wants to keep the
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blustery rhetoric rolling. the network just set up new standards for the presidential forum, the requirement that participants reach at least 1% in national polling averages just got dropped. they are setting the bar, the new bar lower so everyone can play ball. carly fiorina, george pataki and senator lindsey graham face low poll numbers. they were alled a ed awere at risk of being disqualified from the debate. our panel joins us tonight. mercedes, you are in the huckabee camp okay. let's play with this a little bit. you are in the camp. good thing, bad thing? what about it? >> well if i was his communications director i probably would have said, you know, not the right use of words here. but i think that these candidates to a certain extent
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are trying to outtrump trump. so it is about coming one these very i would say almost provoekt provocative one liners to energize voters. to a certain extent it was interesting to see trump's response saying look he's a good guy. and it was huckabee's way of saying the iran deal is bad. it is bad for the jews and really coming out with a very strong statement. >> is it trying to outtrump trump? or is this what huckabee really believes in his heart? and he's doubling and tripling down on this. he has not had the headlines trump has though. >> i think knowing governor huckabee he is -- you know, he's very passionate about this issue. and he really believes that the ones who are going to be negatively affected by this iranian deal is clearly israel
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and the jews. and secretary kerry came out a few days ago essentially saying if this deal doesn't pass through we're going to blame the jews. i think huckabee is standing up for the jews in that sense and saying it is going to be a bad deal for america. and iran has threatened to murder the jews. they have said it. so he's trying to make a very strong statement with this. >> governor are we seeing a politically savvy move by trump? not only did he back mike huckabee? he roped jeb bush into the whole thing and ripped him on talking about tone. i mean does tone matter to republicans? >> tone matters. let me just defend john kerry for a moment. i'm reasonably sure he did not say they were set on blaming the jews if the agreement didn't pass. i'd like to see the exact quote before we go to down that road. >> i'll send you the quote. >> i would like that very much.
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donald trump has really been masterful. he's leading the polls and capitalizing on the anger that exists in one wing of the republican party and mike huckabee needs to outtrump trump in order to win. somebody has to win iowa. and if huckabee doesn't win iowa he's done. it's all or nothing for him. but he can't go after trump because if he does, then that is the fight between the two of them and they both lose. so it is fascinating to see what is going on. it is republican politics. and right now jeb bush has got to be watching laughing all the way to the bank. because in this sort of donny brook of craziness he looks pretty reasonable right now. and voters on both sides generally end one a candidate they believe is most reasonably going to be elected president. and right now that certainly isn't mike huckabee or donald trump. >> but the majority of americans governor are with mike huckabee on this policy. they may not have liked his method. but he is standing in the majority against this deal.
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what impact that has, go ahead. >> that is interesting, ed. because that poll was actually a reversal of the poll last week that shows most americans did not believe that the iranians would keep their word but were in favor of the deal. so i think we need to see some more polling information. i don't believe the iranians are going to keep their word and i -- you know the question is do we want war in the middle east? i don't think we do. is this deal going to make it more or less likely there is a war? i think that is the question everybody is trying to ask. but the to-do over huckabee and trump and huckabee's language really is not about whether there is going to be a war or whether this deal is good or bad. it is about language that is intemperate and that is never good for somebody who intends to be president of the united states. >> did mike huckabee get enough pushback on this from the public mercedes? >> no absolutely not. i think the only candidate we
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saw basically saying tone it down was governor jeb bush. i think you saw the other republicans saying yeah. marco rubio did say he was not going to comment on what other candidates are saying. but for the most part there is this really this passion about the fact that this iranian deal is a bad deal for america. the fact that you are going to be giving over $150 billion to a country that sponsors terrorism in the mideast is very worrisome. >> what do you make mercedes of fox changing the rules so everybody can play on the debate stage? >> i am really thrilled about that. i think giving all of these different candidates an opportunity to deliver their message and basically a format with very what i find incredibly wonderful very experienced journalists. i think it is just going to be helpful. it is going to allow the primary voters to have a fair assessment and i'm thrilled. >> great to have you both with
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>> in finally tonight, big news out of the nfl. quarterback tom brady of the patriots and the owner robert kraft are slamming the nfl this evening for upholding tom brady's suspension in deflategate. robert kraft didn't hold back during a press conference earlier today. >> the league still has no hard evidence of anybody doing anything to tamper with the psi levels of footballs. i continue to believe and unequivocally support tom brady. i was wrong to put my faith in the league. given the facts, evidence and laws of science that underscore this entire situation, it is completely incomprehensible to me that the league continues to
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take steps to disparage one of its all-time great players. >> tom brady is also going after the league's ruling. brady posted a statement on his facebook page today that read in part, i'm very disappointed by the nfl's decision to uphold the four-game suspension against me. i did nothing wrong. and no one in the patriots organization did either. on tuesday, the brady's assistant destroying his cell phone as a reason for his punishment. he wrote, i replaced my broken samsung phone with a new iphone 6 after my attorneys made it clear that to the nfl that my actual device would not be subjected to investigation under any circumstances. i have never written, text, e-mailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was
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raised at the afc championship game in january. to suggest that i destroyed a phone to avoid giving the nfl information it requested is completely wrong. the nfl players association said they will appeal what they say is an outrageous decision on behalf of quarterback tom brady. for more we bring in terence moore from sports on also with us dante stallworth, who played for the patriots in 2007 and 2012. terence, i'll start with you. we were visiting with you on this last night. this is a pushback beyond pushbacks on the part of kraft and the quarterback. what do you make of it? >> well, first of all, ed what we're seeing here the last few days is absolutely extraordinary. never in the history of the national football league, maybe in sports have you had such a powerful owner essentially declare war on his own league. i know a lot of people will say,
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what about al davis? and i covered the oakland raiders 35 years ago when ad davis and pete rozelle were mortal enemies. but al davis was a noted rebel. robert kraft, put it in perspective. he's in charge of the broadcast committee, the most powerful committee in the national football league, which is why this league is worth billions. second of all, this is the same bob kraft who back in 2006 was the main guy that got roger goodell hired. you're talking about the new england patriots here. the second most expensive team in the nfrl national football league. so it tells you how big it is. >> i know it's a fraternity, these nfl owners you know. do you think, terence, that kraft would go to some other owners and say, hey, you'd be saying the same thing if this was your star player. is he going to get support from other owners? does this put special pressure on goodell? >> he's going to get zero support from other owners because that's partly why roger goodell was able to be so big
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and bad and make this move. because the word is that a lot of the fellow owners out there were whispering in his ear to hang tough. a lot of these guys a lot of the fellow owners are robert kraft's guys think that the patriots have been getting off too easy as it is. going back to spy gate the illegal substitutions they did, or border line substitutions. and some other things. so if he goes to the owners they're going to put their fingers in their ears. >> kraft is saying that he regrets not taking legal action. and now there's a union play here. dante, how powerful is the union to support tom brady? and where does this go from here? what avenue can brady take right now? >> well, right now, i think and it was obvious before we knew that tom brady and his camp was going to fight this. mr. kraft talked about how he
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felt that he shouldn't have put so much faith in the league. and now you'll see a huge pushback, as you've seen in the statements today, by both the owner, mr. kraft and by tom brady. but tom brady now can go to court and the nfl will have to show why they -- why this case was upheld why this suspension was upheld. but tom brady has a decent chance at winning. it's not over with yet. this thing could drag on unfortunately for a long time to come. well into the season. >> dante, you believe his story? this is a major pushback on brady. he's attacking the league's credibility in a big way, basically calling them liars. >> and it's interesting, because i think it's kind of working both ways when you see what's going on now with the nfl and also tom brady. so this is going to be a verbal spat for a really long time.
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but with mr. kraft coming out as strong as he did, that's something that hasn't been done in a really long time like was mentioned before. you'll see mr. kraft continue to push back and tom brady as well. >> terence, how legally deep could this go? could they unearth these text messages to find out brady's telling the truth or he's lying? >> either way, as we know you can never erase anything with modern technology. here's the thing that needs to be pointed out. when this thing goes to court, they're not going to be able to prove guilt or innocence here. they're basically going to sue the nfl, the players and brady, on the process. and they're going to lose big time there. because it was collectively bargained by the owners and the players. the players are the ones who agreed to let roger goodell to be the judge and the injury in all these situations. and the other big thing, ed one of the owners who was huge in this collective bargaining
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agreement now was, all together now -- robert kraft. >> players aren't under any obligation to give up cell phones and i think brady mentioned that. so this is going to go a lot further beyond the innocent and guilty thing. it's also going to be a union issue as well. and i think that's what the nflpa will have to fight back for, for tom brady. >> donte, what about the timing of this in tom brady's career? nobody wants to leave with controversy. nobody wants to tarnish someone's legacy. this guy is going to be remembered at one of the all-time greats. we can debate who is the best we this guy is a marquee player in the history of the league. how much does legacy play into it? >> i think it will play into it in the public opinion of the court, it's going to be an issue. people that were a little suspect of brady before when they came out with the upheld
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suspension yesterday and they said specifically that brady destroyed his cell phone to circumvent some of the investigation. so that will probably hurt brady from people who already thought he was guilty. the people who are supporting brady are looking at it in a different way. brady explained why he had destroyed his cell phone before in the past and it's on record. so there's a lot that will be going back and forth to see what happens. >> donte stallworth and terence moore, great to have you with us. that's "the ed show." "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. tonight on "politicsnation," a campus police officer charged with murder for shooting an unarmed man during a traffic stop. we're live in cincinnati. also how do you debate donald trump? attack him?


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