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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 15, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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n memorial to pay tribute to the man who freed the slaves, the man who saved the union, passed the 13th amendment outlawing slavery and died pushing for voting rights for those freed. it's time for reince priebus to get up on the stairs and pay true tribute to the country's finest president. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> you can see the media running behind me here to chase the scooby van. >> and they're off. hillary clinton holds her very first campaign event as a presidential candidate. plus, before there was obamacare, there was hillary care. >> americans can no longer wait for health care reform. >> tonight, the second installment of "clinton for millennials." then chris christie hits reset in new hampshire. >> i am who i am. we just deal with it head on.
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>> plus, the senate reaches a compromise on iran. >> i shot him. i'm sorry. >> the disturbing world of pay to play deputies and why 70% of kids in one new york school system didn't take their exams today. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the greatest headline to be generated thus far from the hillary for president campaign has to be this, an msnbc reporter heroically stands firm as the rest of media chases hillary's scooby van. that heroic reporter will join us in just a moment. today marked hillary clinton's first day on the official campaign trail as a 2016 presidential candidate. she kicked things off this morning with a prearranged stop of the jones street java house in leclair, iowa, where the cameras rolled when she made small talk with staff and placed her order. >> we started the lunch menu probably a couple months into -- >> how is that going for you? >> excellent.
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>> yes, it is. this is such a homey place. i love this. i'll try both your chai and maybe a glass of water, too, and maybe some lemon in there would be great. i'm going to go over here. >> later clinton visited kirkwood community college in monticello, iowa, with a roundtable with students and educators. msnbc's alex seitz-wald reporting live from the scene. >> we believe she'll come in behind us, unless she comes in the back, but the main entrance to this building is just over my left shoulder here, and the scooby van is coming up right here, right behind our camera. here it is. there she goes, and secret service following behind her. okay, they're going around to the back, so we're not -- you can see the media running behind me here to chase the scooby van. and she's going around to the back. >> wow. >> all right. we'll see her, we'll see her
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very soon. >> the guy in the orange pants is pretty quick. alex, i'm looking at -- orange pants, he's really outnumbered now by all of the people that are racing around the back. i'm glad that you have not taken off from your live shot and you remain with me. >> joining me now from iowa is that msnbc political reporter, alex seitz-wald, who is heroically refusing to sprint away from a live shot. i feel like that was iconic, instantly iconic moment window into what a modern campaign is. >> yeah, absolutely, chris. this is a big problem for hillary clinton. she has 100% name recognition. anywhere she goes she attracts a huge media following, and it's just impossible for her to do these small events she wants to. i've asked a bunch of democratic strategists, if you were working in their campaign, in their shoes, how would you solve that? the answer is you can't. so she's trying to split the difference doing some events
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like this and another one tomorrow that are for the media where they will have access. we have footage. we can go inside but then she's also doing a lot of these smaller events where she gets chances to meet with people and the secret to those is she doesn't tell the press about them or she has just a small member of a pool of reporters that are with her, so similar to the way the white house does things, which is incredible. the first day of hillary clinton's campaign and already at this level of the full-on kind of operation and circus footprint of an almost white house level operation. >> well, and that's only going to grow. i think the way to understand a campaign for folks that have not ever worked on a campaign, whether as a volunteer, as a staffer, as someone covering one in any capacity is that it's like -- it's like a little mini society that gets set up with all kinds of -- all the things about a society like they're shunning and shaming and status and back and forth. there are romances, there are -- that's what happens in this universe. you saw a little glimpse of it
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today and just on day two. this is only going to grow. dozens and hundreds more people will be coming into that in the next four, six, ten months. >> yeah, absolutely. and in a place like iowa, new hampshire, these first two states, what you would love to do is just have kind of, you know, casual, spontaneous genuine interactions like what rick santorum drove around the state, all 99 counties, in a pickup truck. that's just impossible for hillary clinton, as much as she would like to do it, and for her especially in 2007 trying to execute this reset here, she flew around the state in a helicopter literally, so trying to reintroduce herself, but trying to do this other reset with the media where she had toxic relationships with in 2008 and these are in tension with each other. you can't have small events in iowa while simultaneously allowing access to the media, so you're going to let somebody down on one of those two fronts or split the difference on both sides, even see how it has to go.
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today is a preview of what's to come for sure. >> a great point. really, really good points all along, alex seitz-wald. i imagine you'll be sleeping in that camera position. all right, so here's the thing. today hillary clinton did some stagecraft, but there was also the first real bit of concrete substance we got from the hillary 2016 campaign. she laid out some of her themes in that roundtable i mentioned at kirkwood community college and cited a few specific things mentioning the tax rate that hedge fund managers pay. she also said something concrete and specific about the way our political system functions, particularly the role of money. take a listen. >> we need to fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of it once and for all, even if that takes a constitutional amendment. >> joining me now, karen finney, senior spokesperson for hillary clinton's presidential campaign. good to have you here. >> nice to see you on the other side of the table. >> yes, that's right. that was striking to me.
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here strikes me is the issue. i think a lot of people feel, polling bears that out, that american politics are too dominated with people with big money. it seems to me that secretary of state clinton feels that way. the president feels that way, but then at the same time she's got to run a campaign. you have super pacs and courting billionaires and millionaires like you got to go talk to those people, so it's like how are you going to talk about both these things at the same time? talk about how broken the system is while playing by that system's rules to win. >> well, again, i think you heard her lay out one of her ideas, and you will in the coming weeks and months because we still have about 18 months to go to hear more about that. and i think ceos, those folks you're mentioning, they know where she stands on those issues. she was very straightforward. she didn't just talk about the hedge fund carried interests but a lot of other ideas and talks about the deck being stacked towards those at the top and what about the productivity of people who have been hard-working people not meeting their paychecks. so they -- i mean, if you are a
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ceo and you give to the campaign, you know where she stands, and i think that's the balance. that doesn't mean you don't stop pushing. it doesn't mean -- but let's be honest, you can't unilaterally disarm -- that doesn't mean you stop and part of the point why she wanted to talk about it. >> deeper issues, what is the process by which what the hillary campaign will stand for substantively be produced because there's -- i remember 2008 you had this kind of competition. you had a lot of people in the primary field, john edwards would come with a plan and what will -- when do we get specifics -- no, really. >> first we have 19 months. >> i know. >> i'm just saying so, but let me talk you through the process. for her, i mean, she went through a pretty rigorous process starting around christmastime, even a little before that talking to a lot of different people, a lot of different policy people and went away at christmastime with a
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500-page briefing book, came back, and she's got ideas, but part of the point of this process like she has thoughts about where she thinks we should go and the things we need to do, but as she said at the top of this event, part of the reason she wants to talk to people is to get their input, see what their questions are, so when she does start rolling it out, what you're hearing has the benefit of what she's heard, and to alex's point, i disagree a little, and to some degree i put this on the media. the media will have to work with us on some of this, and people didn't like it but understood what we were trying to accomplish. she -- this is what she wanted to do, get in the van and just go talk to people. we'll have to figure out -- part of our job as the campaign, how do we keep you happy -- >> i'm not -- >> keep alex happy and at the same time make sure that she has those conversations because i think it's -- this is something about hillary clinton that i think people miss and having known her for almost 25 years which, of course, in kindergarten when i first met
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her, this is her. this isn't hillary 2.0. this is hillary. >> whether it is or not, the politics is borne of competition, conflict, back and forth debate. that's just the way politic works. people take positions based on the political context whether they're cutting off their right flank when they're in the house and john boehner is doing this. it's like in the absence of all those dynamic factors, you could do as many town halls as you want, right? the question is where is the broader context that's producing a democratic party nominee who has a platform that is genuinely a product of what the democratic party is. >> part is going out and talking to people. talking to policy people, which she has done, and part of that is talking to actual real live everyday americans, and i mean because we can have a conversation in the abstract, but if we're not connecting that to people's lives, which is part of why the video started the way it did, with people and talking about their lives and everyday issues, but i also think today, you know, she did lay out a framework. she talked about sort of four different areas.
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she talked about community -- >> it's politics. >> okay, hold on. i know, i know you think it's -- but -- >> it's politics. i'm not hating on that. >> but the idea is -- i think she laid out a framework. i think to your point, constitutional amendment and talked about the hedge fund carried interest and talked about for profit colleges and college affordability. >> and endorsed the president's college's community college plan, a substantive position, she's on the record. >> and something she's been supportive of in the past. that being said, this process, three to four weeks talking to people, and then we still have time to start laying out -- >> there is time. >> -- the policy. we're going to do this on her time frame, not how the media wants it, but we'll be really nice along the way, i promise. >> i want specifics. >> i know you do. you are a policy guy. >> right. karen finney. >> people want to chase the scooby van. >> thank you. welcome to brooklyn. new york city tabloids having a field day after clinton senate campaign manager bill de blasio couldn't quite bring himself to endorse hillary clinton for president. >> are you for her now
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unequivocally or want to wait to see if she waits to take your advice on moving to a more progressive agenda? >> i want to see a vision. that would be true of candidates on all levels. it's time to see a clear, bold vision for progressive economic change. >> you're not -- you're technically not yet endorsing her. >> not until i see -- i would say this about any candidate, an actual vision of where they want to go. >> former congressman anthony wiener, married to one of her most trusted aides responded "this notion that he is somehow the spokesperson for some wing of the party that hillary needs to audition for, i think this is wrong and not helpful. she was working on a progressive vision of health care when bill de blasio was still smoking pot at nyu or wherever he went." this brings us to "hillary clinton for millennials." hillary care edition. almost two decades before obamacare there was a fight over the hillary-care wars, and they were every bit as ugly.
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>> during the campaign one of bill clinton's slogans was buy one, get one free. well, americans are already getting their money's worth. hillary clinton is on the job. >> the year, 1993. america had a new president ready to fix stuff. bill clinton had campaigned on health care reform but needed someone to lead his efforts to fix a broken system. who would help bring america back from the brink? ♪ >> tonight's episode, the hillary-care war. >> when president clinton named his task force, hillary was in the front row. that's because clinton put her in charge. >> hillary clinton with a top notch resume, a sterling legal career, experience leading education reform in arkansas was tapped with leading the white house's health care reform legislation, a bill that would
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guarantee every american health insurance. >> the clintons are taking on the doctors, the trial lawyers, the hospitals and insurance industry. they know that what they're proposing is nothing short of a health care revolution. >> but not everyone was on board with the revolution's messenger. >> we elected bill clinton, not hillary. >> i think she has a little too much power for a president's wife. >> i think the lady has been handed an impossible task in an impossible time. >> the power that she has bothers me a lot. >> initially both the public and elected officials thought some type of reform was inevitable. >> i think the president and mrs. clinton and others in the administration have done a pretty good job. we haven't agreed on anything yet but my view, again, it's an area we can work together. it's the biggest single issue we've had in this country for 40, 50 years. >> that fall the first lady went before congress to present the plan. >> americans can no longer wait for health care reform. >> publicly those who opposed reform expressed a willingness to listen. >> and while i don't share the chairman's joy at our holding hearings on a government-run
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health care system, i do share his intention to make the debate and the legislative process as exciting as possible. >> i'm sure you will do that, mr. armey. you and dr. kevorkian, right? >> ooh. >> but then things took a turn. enter the special interest groups. >> this was covered under our old plan. >> oh, yeah, that was a good one, wasn't it? >> things are changing and not all for the better. >> the health insurance association of america came out with an ad that would ultimately help sink the clinton plan. >> they choose. >> we lose. >> hillary fought back. >> now, they have the gall to run tv ads that there is a better way, the very industry that has brought us to the brink of bankruptcy because of the way that they have financed health care. >> but that created an opening for opponents. >> it's a little like having the used car salesman take you for a drive around the block, and you sort of love the afternoon, and the convertible top is down, and
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it feels good, then you get back and have a mechanic look under the hood. >> the barrage of negative publicity eventually soured public opinion. the 1,300-page plan drew derision from all sides and ultimately died in a democratic congress. >> there's no way in the world that a bill of this magnitude can pass precisely as proposed. >> the clintons abandoned their plans for health care reform. and it would take two decades for reform to become a reality after an equally brutal fight, but hillary, of course, knew all along what that fight would look like. >> it says that eventually we are all going to die. >> under the clinton health plan? you mean after bill and hillary put all those new bureaucrats and taxes on us, we're still all going to die? i have never been so frightened in all my life. >> me neither, harry. >> there's got to be a better way.
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>> that's incredible footage, by the way, hat tip to those who put it together. if you missed last night's premiere installment of our new public series, "hillary clinton for millennials," watch it and give us a like, won't you. still to come, chris christie tries to recapture the love of the republican donor class by going after something that voters themselves love. in a year of shocking police videos, what we have seen tonight is truly astonishing, the dash cam video of police running down a suspect supposedly to save his life. that's ahead. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula... to work on fine lines and even deep wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. oh, i love game night. ooh, it's a house and a car! so far, you're horrible at this, flo. yeah, no talent for drawing, flo. house! car! oh, raise the roof! no one? remember when we used to raise the roof, diane?
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if you've ever gone to london, you know tourists flock to buckingham palace to see the changing of the guard. usually a brisk process but not every time. >> oh, dear.
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>> that poor guy reportedly slipped on a manhole cover. there it is in slow motion captured on the video for the world to see. the ministry of defense said they would not comment on a young man falling over while doing his job. fair enough, ministry of defense though, i've got a feeling the guard's buddies were not quite so restrained. >> oh, dear.
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chris christie, republican governor of new jersey, says he's finally ready to be president. in an interview with yahoo!'s matt bai he said the only way you're going to perform well is if you believe in your heart that you're ready to be president, and i didn't, and so there was no way i would win because i wasn't ready. matt bai asked him if he's ready now. he answered yes without a nanosecond of hesitation. while christie might be ready to be president, are voters ready for him? just last month almost 60% of republican voters couldn't see themselves supporting him. today 69% of new jersey voters say christie would not be a good president, and he began a two-day visit to new hampshire as part of his tell it like it is town hall series. >> our leaders in washington are not telling people the truth. they're still not dealing with this problem. frankly, washington is afraid to have an honest conversation
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about social security, medicare and medicaid with the people of our country. i am not. >> christie went on and laid out a detailed plan, which called for reduced social security benefits for retired seniors earning more than $80,000 and eliminating the benefit entirely for those making $200,000 and raising the retirement age from 67 to 69. in 2010 a gallup poll showed support for increasing the age. increasing the age benefit and raising the age is unpopular, so who is he trying to impress with his reform pitch? joining me now is robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post." robert, this is my theory on this. i want you to tell me what you think. americans aren't clamoring to see the retirement age raised. but the people that really do like that policy idea are the republican donor class. that is a very popular policy view of the republican donor class.
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that is a very popular policy view of the republican donor class. this is chris christie's play for them as much as it is for any voters. what do you think of that? >> i think that's spot-on. governor christie knows that governor bush and senator rubio have become the establishment favorites in this 2016 race, but i'd add another point to what he's trying to do here. he was here in manchester earlier. i think he's trying to recapture that magic. 2010 casting himself as a truth teller with the public schoolteachers. he wants to get back to that kind of popularity with the base talking about fiscal issues. >> yeah, but it's also hard to imagine how he engineers -- back then, right, first of all, a different political environment, it was 2010, sort of the high sort of frothy tea party atmosphere, but it was also he was engaged in an actual direct confrontation in which he was fighting teachers. he was fighting them over pensions. he was fighting them over a bunch of things. i mean, he can't just go around
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new hampshire yelling at random people. >> christie's team, and i've spoken with them over the past week, they want to come back to these town halls, but a lot has changed. you're so right because if you look at new jersey's economy right now, it's really struggling. cities like atlantic city are having a tough time. pensions in new jersey, they're having liability problems. so chris christie thought town halls were the key to his success a few years ago and thinks entitlement reform can make him the paul ryan of 2016. i'm not sure the establishment is convinced or conservatives. >> and i think the point you make about sort of turning back the clock to 2010 is great on the substance, because one of the big controversial things he took on were pensions and the way pension payments were structured. he essentially demanded these concessions. you turn the clock forward and the state is in terrible fiscal shape and had a judge ordering him to give money into -- you know, into a pension fund he essentially has in violation of the court not given.
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so he's even got a tough record to defend on the kind of dollars and cents of what the spreadsheet in jersey looks like. >> but he needs to make himself intriguing in some way because his confidants know he's in a hobbled position. rubio is rising. jeb bush has the donors with him. where does christie find space in this 2016 race looking for a way back, so he thinks his personality is part of it, but he needs to have specifics so people in the press pay attention and the activists pay attention. >> robert costa, thank you for joining us. always a pleasure. all right, up next an update on the story we brought you last week about a bill in kansas that would crack down on how people spend their welfare benefits. you might not be able to buy underwear from some stores, but you may be able to use them to buy guns. then a disturbing new police dash cam video and why police say their actions probably saved the suspect's life. that's coming up.
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pretty remarkable update to a story we brought you, the bill awaiting governor sam brownback's signature in kansas restricting where and how poor families can spend their welfare benefits. the measure includes a ludicrously long and specific list of places where kansans on temporary assistance may not spend aid money, including movie theaters, swimming pools, cruise ships, theme parks and lingerie shops among many, many others because the small government republicans are angling for a
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state government just big enough to regulate where its citizens buy their underwear. we at "all in" couldn't help but notice among the list of two dozen banned activities and products, there was no mention of guns. so i very pointedly asked one of the bill's sponsor state senator michael o'donnell whether kansans can use it to buy guns. can you buy a gun with tanf money? >> no, you cannot buy a gun with tanf money. we do not restrict everything that you can and can't buy. >> twinge of self-doubt after he told me you cannot buy a gun with it. you hear that? we learned that state senator michael o'donnell was wrong about that. not only can you spend it on guns in kansas, but they have super helpful suggestions for how an underprivileged kansan might use a weapon purchased with welfare money telling "the wichita eagle," a gun could be used for security in a dangerous neighborhood or to hunt for food
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for their family. this is, i suppose, not that surprising in a state that has become a laboratory of right wing governance. a state that just passed a law allowing its citizens to carry concealed weapons with no training and no permit. and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or
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quirky detail about shaquille o'neal you may know. aside from basketball, he's basically been a cop. here he is in 2005 sworn in as a reserve officer in miami beach and had been one in los angeles prior to that. most recently in lafayette parish, louisiana. the same goes for steven seagal who became a reserve officer in new mexico two years ago at age 60 and starred in a reality series called "steven seagal, lawman" based on his exploits as a deputy in louisiana, but the idea of volunteer sheriff's deputies isn't amusing in light of what happened in tulsa, oklahoma, where roberts bates, a 73-year-old reserve officer who volunteers for the tulsa county
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sheriff's office shot and killed 44-year-old eric harris, who according to the county sheriff's office was a subject of a sting operation to catch him selling guns and drugs. harris was unarmed. mr. bates who said he mistook his gun for his taser and therefore shot harris by accident turned himself in to authorities at the tulsa county jail today where he was booked. the tulsa county d.a. charged him with second degree manslaughter and released him on bond. whatever his legal culpability, under what scenario is it okay for a volunteer deputy to carry a firearm in an undercover sting operation that the police expect will have guns involved? how does that happen? turns out the reserve officers are fairly widespread in the u.s. and through their duties and whether or not they are allowed to carry guns varies greatly from one jurisdiction to another. the associated press did a great comprehensive piece about this, "while there's no current official tally, the fbi law enforcement bulletin in 2006 estimated the national total of
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reserve officers at 400,000. while some reserve officers receive modest compensation, most work without pay, and many are expected to provide their own uniforms and equipment. even within a single department, training requirements can vary widely." joining me now, former baltimore police officer peter moskos, author of "cop in the hood." peter, i did not know about this institution, so maybe let's start with the specific case and move to the general. in this specific case i feel like how is it -- how is it that this guy is brought along on what police are anticipating is going to be an undercover gun buy and, therefore, will have some element of danger? >> this guy -- i don't know if there's cause and effect, but this guy gave money to the sheriff's campaign. the sheriff is an elected official. that's part of the problem. he's a politician, so he gives him a couple thousand dollars and donates cars to the tulsa county sheriff's department, and then somehow he has access to
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the most dangerous part of police work. this was an undercover gun buy. the guy did sell a cop a gun. that's not where you should have reserve deputy sheriffs. >> no, and also -- yeah, the confluence of america's broken finance system, like pay to play policing really sounds like a dystopic vision. >> now maybe he would have done that without giving all that money, but it's a strange coincidence. it is that, isn't it, in policing? >> that actually -- that arrangement isn't that uncommon. part of what comes around with these sort of reserve deputies a lot of times, they are contributors or supporters of the sheriff in question. >> is there any defense for this program at large? why should we have part-time hobbyists running around as part-time police officers? >> they're not all part-time hobbyists. it bridges the gap between police and the community. it reminds the public that the public are the police, and it reminds that the police that the police are the public.
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we don't want them all to be overmilitarized s.w.a.t. units, and often these officers or in new york we have the auxiliary police, volunteer police officers in uniform without firearms in new york. >> it's like there's a big spectrum of like what we mean by this. so in new york, which is -- which is a very professionalized police department, i think it's fair to say people's criticism of the nypd notwithstanding that the auxiliary police, the new york city version of this, are in uniform volunteer but do not carry firearms. >> correct. >> what they do, they serve at parades and community events and they are extra resources for the police department. it also allows many of my students at john jay college, auxiliary police, because they want to dip their foot in before taking a 20-year plunge into the police department. some say it isn't for me. >> better to find out in that position. all right. we got this video today i have to ask you about. you wrote a great book about policing and experience as a
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beat cop. this video was released, which we'll show you in full in a moment. marana, arizona, police cruiser ramming the suspect. the suspect was fleeing a walmart where he allegedly stole a rifle. local news reports that valencia had already been intercepted by police in the vicinity of the post office threatening suicide. police pursued him, ended up ramming him with a patrol car and the officer driving that cruiser is officer michael rapiejko, cleared, and the officer will not be charged criminally, though still under administrative review. the police chief says his decision probably saved the suspect's life. valencia spent two days in the hospital before being booked into jail and faces as many as 15 charges, and while this video is disturbing, language is graphic, the suspect survived the incident. take a look. >> never mind.
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>> one round just went out. into this guy. and unlock now. definitely loaded. be prepared. >> 10-4. is it the subject or did you shoot? >> negative. did not shoot. unit right there. just stand off. stand off. the gun is loaded. unit, stay off. >> oh. jesus christ, man down. [ bleep ]. >> 435. 454. >> he's down. he's down. >> unit right there, just stand off. stand off. the gun is loaded. unit on -- stay off. >> christ, man down.
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>> i don't know what to make of that. what do you make of it? >> i wish i knew more about the circumstances. look, the car can be a weapon, a lethal weapon just like the gun might be. i don't know. >> if it is possible, conceivable that a police officer could be justified using a weapon to shoot someone, what you're saying is it is conceivable he could be justified to -- have you ever -- is that a thing the cops do? >> it depends where you are. i was not trained that way, but sometimes in other jurisdictions, yeah, you see police cars run other cars off the road. usually that's not an urban tactics that's used. but exactly, if you can shoot someone, yeah, you can hit them with your car, too. >> the thing that came to me here and again, a lot depends if he's armed and dangerous, they think he has a gun. >> we know he's armed, right? >> well, i mean not hard confirmed. all alleged. i don't know what actually is actually definitively determined.
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that said, what's interesting to me, the guy on the radio saying, okay, let's take a second to figure out how to do this, and i feel like i've seen that in a number of videos where someone is saying, hey, let's take a sec and someone rushes in to make a move or a judgment. >> you see that time and time again. the more officers you get on a scene, there's a good chance one will be the most aggressive officer on the scene and then, yeah, i don't know that circumstance i don't want -- >> stand back, and he doesn't. i don't know, one had one idea. it's the more aggressive officer that makes the point. pete moskos, thanks for coming. in a school district in upstate new york, 70, 7-0, percent of students did not take the exam that's demanded by law and had their parents' permission. we'll talk to the person behind the test and someone who wrote the book, how it's undermining education. you do not want to miss this debate.
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after threatening to pass a bill the white house said could derail ongoing nuclear negotiations with iran the senate foreign relations committee today advanced a bipartisan compromise. that order according to one democrat would have a, quote, benign impact on those talks. while president obama had previously vowed to veto what's known as the corker/menendez bill, his spokesman said he would sign the compromise reached today. much more on the details of that have compromise and what made the president change his mind is coming up on "the rachel maddow show." olay regenerist. it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures. stunningly youthful. award-winning skin. never settle for anything less. the regenerist collection. from the world's #1. olay your best beautiful
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eight former atlanta public schoolteachers were sentenced to prison today. some ordered to serve up to seven years for their convictions in the cheating scandal that rocked the city and the nation two years ago. investigators found that atlanta teachers under intense pressure to meet targets had changed or erased the students' answers, on a standardized test. and that scandal, one of the worst in the country's history, provides a small window into the possible impact the high stakes
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testing can have on some school districts. in the past 13 years of no child left behind, many teachers cross country have openly revolted against testing regimes that puts too much focus on data and forced them to teach to the test. parents are getting involved and organized and turning the push to opt out as a full-pledged movement. tens of thousands in grades three through eight sat down to take the english language arts exam as part of a state assessment designed around new york's common core standards. the math test is next tuesday. many of their classmates were sitting out the test today amid outcry from parents concerned about the pressure it puts on their kids. in the lower hudson valley, many reported 25% of students opted out. in the west seneca school district in upstate new york, a whopping 70% of eligible students refused to participate. this is a third year of common core aligned testing, and this year's opt out numbers appear way up from the 60,000 statewide who opted out last year. some districts in the central
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part of the state saw the number of students refusing to take the exam increase more than 600%. now, the opt out movement cuts across the usual ideological battle lines because the tests are designed around common core standards. they draw fire from conservatives. like fox news personality michelle malkin who objects to government intrusion in education. the tests are also opposed by many teachers unions, ordinarily no ally of the conservative movement. those unions oppose linking students' test results to teacher evaluation scores. in new york, the state teachers unions ran robo calls to its members reminding them their children could opt out. but for the most part the opt out movement seems to have emerged from a kind of digital grass roots with parents spreading the word on facebook and other social media platforms. the facebook group, for example. long island opt out, one of the biggest, has almost 22,000
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members and are keeping a spreadsheet tracking the number of students who refuse the test in each school district on long island. up next, i will talk with the person behind new york state's assessment and one of the most prominent critics of high stakes testing. stay tuned. [ female announcer ] when you're serious about fighting wrinkles, turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week fine lines appear to fade. one month deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®.
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doug, we have the results, but first, we have a very special guest. come on out, flo! [house band playing] you have anything to say to flo? nah, i'll just let the results do the talking. [crowd booing] well, he can do that. we show our progressive direct rate and the rates of our competitors even if progressive isn't the lowest. it looks like progressive is not the lowest! ohhhh! when we return we'll find out whether doug is the father. wait, what? all right, joining me now, diane ravitch, author of "the death and life of the great american school system: how testing and choice are undermining education" and merryl tisch overseeing those tests today. let me start with you, miss tisch.
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when you see the reports of the opting out, the numbers from west seneca pretty striking, i got to say, is your reaction people are crazy or is your reaction we're doing something wrong? >> my reaction is obviously not that people are crazy, i think people should act in what they perceive to be the best interest of their children. and perhaps from our perspective we have not been clear enough in describing the intent of the test. the intent of the test is to give a snapshot of performance and allow parents to know where their children are at any given point in their educational career as compared to their peers. if you talk about income inequality in this country, income inequality is directly tied to the achievement gap for our poor students. those students if they are not given access and opportunity to
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high quality education, they simply cannot move along at a continuum. >> there's a whole -- let's sort of bracket for a question the sociology of poverty for a second because, no, we could go around -- there's lot of things that contest whether that. link -- in what direction the causation of that link flows, right, but so here's the question to you, miss ravitch. i had someone who works in education who i respect compare testing opt out to people opting out of immunization because basically it was like, look, yeah, your kid is probably not going to get measles and if you think there's a downside, you can opt out, but you're a free rider because as the policy as a whole is a necessary means of figuring out where people are, assessing, right? you need this data. if you start allowing people to opt out, you've just destroyed the entire data -- what are they going to do to judge anything year over year when one year they have data and the next they don't? >> it's totally inappropriate to compare that to immunization.
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the tests they take today have nothing to do with the tests we took as kids. when we were kids we took an hour test to see how we did in reading, an hour test to see how we did in math. children today in third grade are taking eight hours of testing. they're spending more time taking tests than people taking the bar exam. now, when we talk about the results of the test, they come back four to six months later. the kids already have a different teacher and all they get is a score and ranking. the teachers can't see the item analysis or what they got wrong. they're getting no instructional gain, no possibility of improvement for the kids because there's no value to the test. they have no diagnostic value. go to a doctor and you say i have a pain and the doctor says i'll get back to in six months and he gets back to you and tells you how you compare to everyone else in the state but doesn't have any medicine for you. >> respond to that.
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>> well, i would say that the tests are really a diagnostic tool that is used to inform instruction and curriculum development throughout the state. new york state spends $354 billion a year on educating 3.2 million schoolchildren. for $54 billion a year i think new yorkers deserve a snapshot of how our kids are doing. how our schools are doing. how our systems are doing. there is an important data point -- >> i want to point out something. that was interestingly nonresponsive to what she said. she said this does not work for the children or school. you said it's for the taxpayer funding the system to see if it's working. those are distinct. >> no, let me finish because we're talking about what happens when parents opt out and what the system can then report back to parents and to the state. the point of the matter is, you know, two weeks ago i was with my grandson at a pediatric visit. there was a new mother sitting next to me and she was comparing growth charts for her
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4-year-old -- for her 4-month-old son. she wanted to know how he was going to do on a continuum. it is natural for parents to want to know how their kids are doing. and as for the diagnostic nature of these tests and the amount of information that is gleaned from them, school districts report to us all the time that they design curriculum around the results of these tests. i agree with diane. there is no such thing as a perfect test. absolutely not. but the ability to glean information from these tests and use them in direct ways to inform instruction and curriculum in classrooms is actually really important. >> okay, so let me ask you this, is this -- the problem here, one of conception or execution, which is to say is it that the entire model of essentially that we have here, right, which is aline the curriculum with the standard testing to see if the children can meet the standards then using as a sort of
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accountability device that model or is it flawed or the actual implementation? >> the model is flawed. you will not find any prep school, any private school in the state of new york or in any state that uses this model. they trust teachers to judge their students. >> they have such a different student body. >> it doesn't matter. you're not helping poor kids when you put so much emphasis on the test, they lose arts, physical education and recess and they lose almost everything except test prep and spend months doing test prep. >> important point, though. it's not about what is in the test but emphasis on the test. >> we are the most overtested nation in the world. if you look at the top ten high performing nations in the world they do not test every child every year. they test them at the end of sixth grade, and in canada in the third and sixth grade but not every year. >> you have an opportunity to speak to parents who might be watching. what do you want to tell them about testing? >> i would like to say that tomorrow is the second day of testing.
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and i would hope that parents would understand that if we had not linked through policy the evaluation of teachers to the testing, i think more kids would be showing up for testing. actually i would say to our parents that our kids have got caught in a labor dispute between the governor and the teachers union, and our kids are paying the price if that may be true here but there's a lot of places where that isn't true, diane ravitch and merryl tisch. that is all. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. awesome debate. thanks at home for joining us. very happy to have you with us. so there is good news and there is bad news about the international terrorist group that the u.s. government thinks is posing the highest risk of launching an international terrorist attack against us here in the united states. there's good news and bad news


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