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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  February 4, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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y, the bigger we. and what we are privileged with many of us in this country, is time and the ability to think and when i feel overwhelmed by the
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>> it looks like they depict men as evil and cold and bumblers. that's what it looks like. what kind of message does that send? >> all in investigates disney's "frozen" and the war on men. >> we don't have to tear down men. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the middle eastern nation of jordan is vowing further revenge tonight in the wake of the release of a horrific video from isis depicting the execution of a jordanian pilot burped alive by isis while trapped in a metal cage.
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jordan executed two prisoners to avenge the death of their pilot, including this woman, an iraqi militant who isis had demanded be released potentially in a prisoner exchange. the executed prisoners were involved in 2005's suicide bombings that killed at least 57 people. she was captured after her suicide vest failed to explode. in jordan, soldiers and civilians gathered to pay condolences to the family of the pilot killed by isis, and in the streets of amman, calling for revenge, gave a warm welcome to king abdullah ii who cut short a trip to washington to return home and meet with senior military staff amid a jordanian promise of a, quote, earth shaking and decisive response to the isis provocation. >> we are talking about a collaborative effort between coalition members in order to
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intensify our efforts, and work to stop extremism and terrorism. >> it comes amid a lot of frustration among member nations. confirmed by nbc news, the united arab emirates suspended air strikes in december against isis citing fears for the pilot's safety in the wake of the capture of the jordanian pilot. the uae saying the u.s. had not put proper assets in northern iraq for rescuing downed pilots. the execution of the jordanian pilot seems to be strengthening public support in jordan for military confrontation with isis. with one jordanian saying, after what we've seen, no one will support them. the confirmation hearing for defense attorney carter on capitol hill, he said his long-standing call for american boots on the ground to fight the terror group. >> how in the world are we going to dislodge isil from syria without a ground component? >> joining me is andrew, a
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former army ranger, wrote a book about his service in afghanistan. adviser to the pentagon on middle east issues. >> thanks for having me. >> never met you in person. i've been following you for a long time. nice to have you here. >> thank you. >> there's this cycle that happens. isis commits across tis, outrages the populous of the country it commits it against, and there's this feeling of, okay, we want revenge, and jordan saying we're recommitted to this endeavor. what does that mean? is it a lack of will that is the problem now? or real tactical and strategic reasons? >> i think there are a couple things going on. first off, i think absent this video, which is kind of putting isis back on the front pages, i don't think it's been a good past six months for them. if we take an assumption, it's a big assumption that they have a coherent strategy, then i don't
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think their strategy is very good. there was a lot of worry they were trying to lure the united states and other nations back into the fight with them, to increase their recruitment. that was probably a bad strategy, because they brought centcom into the fight, not in significant numbers, but enough numbers to push them out of kobani, and i think we're starting to see them rolled up in iraq as well. >> you think they're being pushed back right now? >> i don't think the past six months have gone very well. i think their high water mark has probably passed. the problem is, we've seen this movie before. so in 2007, i think we were able to pretty decisively defeat al qaeda in iraq. but of course, you can win that victory, but all you're really doing is pieing time and space for some sort of political reconciliation process. i think that's not on the horizon in syria, because they're in a civil war. >> so in fact, some of the exact same people who were members of al qaeda in iraq are now
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fighting for isis. >> yeah. and a lot of the shia partisans in the civil war in iraq are currently in the government. there's not a lot of trust on either side of that equation in iraq. >> let's say that we saw a really strong push from a coalition partners, and saying stepped-up activity that really did have success. let's say isis are defeated, what does tuesday look like? >> that's a good question to ask. there's one narrative that says, we've got resurgent islamic militants. we've got two really weak states in syria, and iraq, that don't have functioning, competent national institutions. i think on the iraq side of the equation, it's probably easier to address, but it's still going to be a big lift, which you've got to build up competent
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security forces, broker reconciliation between varying demographic communities in iraq. i think it's largely a nation-building exercise. in syria, i don't know what the solution is there. that conflict, you know, these types of civil wars last, and the past 100 years, an average of about nine years. if that holds true for syria, then i think we're a long way away from seeing some sort of resolution to that conflict. and until you see that, you're still going to have the fundamentals in place for an isis-like group or dissatisfied, or disaffected sunni group in eastern syria and western iraq. >> so the idea of this sort of fundamental driver being power vacuums with weak states, the fundamental driver being islamists -- >> the conditions that led to an al qaeda in iraq, or isis. >> in some ways we've seen this movie before, you referenced 2007. sunni militants were just absolutely barbaric, slaughtering children as they prayed. there was a certain point at which the sure barbarity served
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to backfire on them. >> that's right. keep in mind there's barbarity on both sides. but that, of course, makes reconciliation all the more difficult. it will after the civil war in iraq. but you're exactly right. what we've seen with al qaeda in iraq and isis, i think isis has learned from al qaeda in iraq, the previous iteration, now providing social services to people in eastern syria, for example. but it's almost as if they've got something in their dna that they can't help but burn a jordanian alive in a cave or decapitate prisoners on video. that's the stuff that i think will cost them not just within the broader arab world, but also motivates the international community in a way that were not motivated, for example, to intervene against boko haram in nigeria. >> or assad dropping barrel bombs and killing people. >> that's right. >> really a pleasure. >> sure. >> the success of isis in capturing the world's attention is about more than the extreme barbarity its members have
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committed, it's also the way they packaged the atrocities. the aggressive propaganda machine seemingly designed to seduce new recruits to a cause and scare enemies into submission. isis released footage purporting to show people in the isis controlled city of raqqa in syria watching the group's latest horrifying spectacle on a large projector screen in that city. showing the pilot burned to death. video images from that atrocity have already been peopled across the world by western media outlets. a news group has aired stills from the video, that do not show the pilot's death, as well as a snippet before the execution begins. we made a decision not to show anything from the video. fox news owned by murdoch made a different decision. they showed a brutal still image from that video showing the pilot succumbing to flames.
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and on its website, fox news made the entire 22-minute video available in unedited form with a warning that it is extremely graphic. "the guardian" reports the twitter accounts associated with isis supporters have been sharing the video which has been taken down from youtube and facebook, via links to the fox news page, with one isis sympathizer saying, whoever is looking for the full conversion of the video, here it is, and it cannot be deleted because it is on an american network. in a statement, fox's executive editor said it, quote, decided giving readers of fox to see the barbarity of isis, and online choosers can view or not view this disturbing content. earlier i spoke to a senior analyst and asked him why isis screened the video. >> they screened the film. they had interviews with locals in raqqa. they asked them, what do you
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think of this film? the response was, you know, an eye for an eye. we punish just like how we are being bombarded. the entire video is supposed to be prop gabd a to show that the locals support isis, that the locals are indeed siding with isis, and that they are in agreement this is punishment. >> let's stipulate for a moment that nothing in the video can be taken at face value for the obvious reasons, that isis is capable of burning people alive. we can't imagine this is the genuine feeling of the citizens of raqqa. >> indeed. i don't believe so. you know, isis rules with terror and fear and intimidation. it's all provocative. the people there know the punishment could be similar to the punishment of others executed by isis if they rebel against the group, or if they defect from the group.
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the punishment for isis for anybody who defects from the group is death. once you vow -- >> once you join isis -- >> you can't leave. that's part of it, that you are under the rule of isis and raqqa. you are citizens of this islamic state. and thus, you have to almost agree with us on what we do. >> there's a question about whether this is strategic or this is not strategic, right? there are some that view this as trying to recruit, they want to intimidate their enemies, the degree to which it's useful for them to be feared by the people they might encounter on the battlefields. there are others who think this is part of, like andrew was just saying, part of their dna. they can't help themselves but kind of enjoy this. what is your feeling? >> you know, i think, look, isis always has a message in every video it puts out. they spend days, sometimes weeks producing this high-quality material in order to make a specific point or a few points. in this sense, besides the message to the locals, which i don't think was the primary message, i think the primary
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message was to show the world that they're trying to bring jordan to its knees, for its part taking in this u.s.-led coalition. in a accepts, it's trying to send a message maybe to the locals on one hand, but also to the jordanians, that you need to tell your government to step back and withdraw from this u.s.-led coalition. >> here's the things, it was the same message they had to the u.s. government with the succession of american hostages they murdered. it backfired there. all it did was serve to increase u.s. support for u.s. involvement, right? they have to know that at this point, right? >> i think -- i don't think they're in tuned with what the arab world, really, their view of them. they think the arab world maybe supports them in some sense. >> they believe their own propaganda about themselves how they're viewed in that region. >> i think so. i think they believe the jordanians would have revolted against the arab government and blamed the government for being part of this crusader coalition. >> the appearance of this video on a major u.s. media outlet, on its website, what is the significance of that? do you have a feeling about
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whether videos like this have enough newsworthy value? >> i don't think the entire video should have been shown in full. this is essentially disseminating terrorist propaganda, whether it disappeared from youtube or not, disappeared from twitter or not. there is a solid permanent link to this video on the american channel. on the other hand, showing the barbarity of isis has been demonstrated over and again. this is only one extra step in demonstrating that isis is barbaric. but i believe the propaganda value here is that isis does not want the video to disappear, ever. >> they want it to have a stable home. >> absolutely. absolutely. and by having it on a network that is presenting it in full, in a way, you're helping them. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> the incredible picture, people are who are scared of flying are going to use to justify that fear, ahead.
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last night, for context let's rewind the all in time machine. the "washington post" reporter walked into aaron shock's new office. he found gold colored wall sconce, a bull's-eye mirror with an eagle perched on top. turns out the color scheme was not random. according to the woman behind the front desk it was based off of the red room in downton abby. after a d.c. watchdog group asked the office of ethics investigate whether shock broke house rules by accepting the work for free, abc managed to get an interview with the congressman saying he had never seen the drama and planning to pay for the interior decorating here himself with a personal check as soon as he gets an invoice from the decorator.
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he also said this. >> taylor swift said haters are going to hate. >> what shade of red do you think this is? >> i don't know, it's bright. despite having dark navy walls, was over 70%. >> this is british. we defeated the british. >> it's british, it's also republican. red. so i had democratic blue the last four years. so i'm going to do red maybe for the next four years. maybe we'll do yellow after that. i don't know. >> all right. so there you go. except that might lead to another possible violation of congressional rules, as the "washington post" reports which dictates how office walls may be painted in just a few select colors. although, to be honest and fair to congressman shock, that rule sounds like it was written by
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what should have been a pleasantly mundane train ride home turned into a disaster for passengers on one of the country's busiest passenger rail lines last night. investigators are trying to determine if the terrible deadly accident could have been prevented. six people were killed, making it the deadliest accident in the history of the railroad. the crash occurred when an suv was struck by the train at a crossing in val halla about 30 miles north of new york city. the train pushed the suv about 1,000 feet down the tracks. about the length of three football fields. according to ntsb investigators, detailing their initial investigation today. the third rail, the electrified rail, pierced the front car of the train. and gas from the suv, according to the investigators, the driver of the suv who died as been identified as 49ials ellen
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brody, a mother of three. five male passengers in the front part of the train also died. the suv had stopped on the tracks when the safety arm of the train crossing came down on the back of that suv. part of the investigation will be to determine if the driver of the suv was confused by the signals at the crossing, or felt it impossible to back up. an eyewitness, the driver of the vehicle behind her, described what he saw when that safety arm came down on the vehicle in front of him. >> it comes down and hits the top of her car. the back of the roof. and actually slides a little bit down the back towards the back window. i fully expected her to back up, so i looked behind me, and luckily there's nobody behind me, i'm able to back up, and waiting for her to back up, instead she gets out of the car. she gets out, walks around the back, looks at the arm that's on the back of the car. she looks at me.
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i gestured to come back. i backed up again further to even indicate there's plenty of room to back up. and she turns, walks and gets back in the car, slight hesitation, and then moves forward, and at that instant the train came. >> at least 12 other passengers were injured. one is listed in critical condition, another in serious condition. others in stable condition or released from the hospital. but as ntsb investigators began their work this morning, there was one unmistakable bright spot, the rest of the more than 600 passengers in that train evacuated safely. joining me, kitty higgins, a former member of the national transportation safety board. kitty, how do you start an investigation of this kind of accident? what are you looking to reconstruct? and is there some sort of policy, judgment you can make, or is this essentially just a horrible freak accident? >> well, chris, in these kinds of accident investigations, you start with saying everything is
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on the table until you take it off the table. so what the investigators will look at, they will look at the signals. they'll look at whether they were working properly. they will look at the -- what the driver was doing. they will look at all of the aspects of the train movement itself. was it going at the appropriate speed, was it functioning properly, were the signals functioning properly. they will look at things like the evacuation procedures, did people know how to get out of the train. all of that, and they'll take issue by issue, and address it until they can say, okay, that wasn't a factor in this accident. we know in general what happened. they will look at the -- i'm sure there's a camera at the front end of this train that will provide a perspective from the engineer's point of view. until they can rule things out, everything is still on the table. and, you know, unfortunately this is not the first grade crossing accident we've seen.
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but -- and this has been a priority issue for the ntsb for a number of years. >> i want to talk about the data on that, which i was looking at today, and was actually surprised and heartened by what i saw. in 1981, you have 9,461 collisions at crossings. 728 fatalities, which is a lot. by 2013, you're down to just over 2,000 collisions and 251 fatalities. what's been done to bring those numbers down as rapidly as they've come down? >> prioritize the crossings themselves and make sure there's the appropriate signaling and lights and cross bars at the intersections where there is the most traffic. there have been unfortunately accidents involving school buses, for example. we've done a much better job at the state level, at the local level in terms of protecting these crossings. obviously it is not foolproof, as we know from this accident yesterday. the question is, again, determining the facts of exactly what happened here, and looking
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at what else can be ton to make the system that is very safe even safer. >> yeah. you said this is very safe. that's been my sense always about rail travel in the u.s. how safe is it compared to other modes of transportation, chiefly driving and flying? >> well, everybody -- flying, people worry about the most, and i think it's in part because when accidents happen, they're catastrophic. but they're also very rare. more people are killed in highway accidents. people will often say you're at more risk driving to the airport than you are flying. i would say rail, again, is very safe, but there are commuter accidents. whether there are accidents like this, accidents on passenger lines, i was involved in being on site for an accident between a freight train and a commuter rail in california a few years ago. we had a metro accident recently in d.c. so they happen. but again, we have to remember, and put it in context that we've got thousands of people, probably millions of people
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riding commuter rail every day, and they get to their destination safely. >> katy higgins, former investigator with the ntsb, thank you very much. lots more ahead here tonight, including huge news today that could easily be the most important thing barack obama did as president. we look back at the years, and in the future. take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft?
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officials in taiwan are searching for survivors and working to determine the cause of a deadly crash of transasia airway ge 235. the plane went down shortly
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after takeoff today and footage of the crash is extraordinary and harrowing, recorded from the dash camera of a nearby car. it shows the plane in the final moments dipping between buildings, while rolling to its left and then clipping a taxi you see there, on an overpass before crashing into the river below. it happened this morning as the plane was leaving taipei's airport, heading for kinman, which is a nearby island off the chinese mainland. 53 passengers and 5 crew members were onboard. at least 31 are dead with a dozen still missing. 15 people have been hospitalized. "new york times" reporting one survivor found his 1-year-old son in the water three minutes after the crash and immediately began performing cpr. at least two local papers are saying that boy is now in intensive care. "the guardian" reporting the driver of the taxi is in the hospital with a head injury, but in stable condition. shortly before the crash, a
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pilot said, quote, mayday, mayday, engine flameout. the plane that crashed was a turboprop atr 7600, less than a year old. it appears to have just been inspected a few weeks ago. asian airlines has had a string of disasters over the years. in december they had a crash, killing all 162 people onboard. in july, another flight went down killing 48 people, also in july, malaysia airlines had a plane shot down over ukraine. in march, one of its planes just disappeared. a combined 537 people died in both those flights. in recent years, asia has quickly become the world's biggest market for air travel, explosive growth, with more than 1 billion passengers flying in 2013. the question now is, whether that explosive growth is adding to a potential safety risk. with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't treat chest congestion. really? new alka-seltzer plus day powder rushes relief to your worst cold symptoms plus chest congestion. oh, what a relief it is. here we go!
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look back on as the most consequential development during barack obama's presidency. for the future of innovation in this country, the way we communicate, our economy, and consuming information. basically the way we live our lives. first consider this, okay? when you move into a new house or apartment, the place is empty. stuff is all in boxes, you have to order pizza because nothing works yet. in order to get the place functioning, you may need to call the water company, you've got to call the electricity company, at least transfer the bill into your name. this time of year definitely you've got to call the gas company and turn the heat on. you're going to want to cook. and you're going to need internet. you may have had the experience as i have of moving into an apartment that it's not like even you live there. what are you supposed to do, talk to the people in your apartment? all those things you have to get turned on, that checklist, we
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understand those is utilities, services you essentially cannot live without. water, electricity and gas are utilities. the internet is not. it basically is like any other product subject to the whims of the market. as of today, however, that may be about to change. the federal communications commission just announced a proposal to reclassify internet as a public utility, regulated by the government to maintain free and open access. a principle we know as net neutrality. fcc chairman tom wheeler wrote today, i'm submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the fcc, assures the right of internet users to go where they want when they want. these new rules will have profound implications for the future of the internet, because the government will have a local of power to require broad baubd companies to offer services to everyone on an equal footing. more remarkable is just how unlikely these rules seemed only a few months ago. seriously, last may four months after a federal court struck
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down the neutral rule. basically broadband providers could create a two-tiered internet. john oliver pointed out in a now legendary segment, the dak seemed to be stacked in the broadband company's favor. >> i can show you the troublingly cozy relationship between cable companies and washington in any number of ways. i could show you the president of golfing with the ceo of comcast. perhaps the most succinct way is this -- >> the president picked tom wheeler, a top lobbyist for cable and wireless companies to be the next chair of the federal communications commission.
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>> yes. the guy who used to run the cable industry's lobbying arm is now running the agency tasked with regulating it. that is the equivalent of needing a babysitter and hiring a dingo. >> that's very funny. the record 4 million comments posted at the fcc's website, crashing the page over the summer. by october he had another approach. and president obama comes in and drops a hammer. >> cable companies can't decide which online stores you can shop at or which streaming services you can use. and they can't let any company pay for priority over its competitors. to put these protections in place i'm asking the fcc to enact title 2. for most americans, the internet has become an essential part of everyday communication, and everyday life. >> joining me, former special assistant to president obama.
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glad to have you here. >> great to be here. >> i should say obviously, cable companies include my parent company, comcast, back in november when the president issued that statement, said they agree with the goals, but disagreed with the classifying this title 2 classification. first let's start basic. what should i care? why does this matter to me in terms of my consumer experience every day of the internet? >> chris, this is unleashing the regulatory ideal, which is providing opportunity for everybody. you as a consumer, internet access, you should be able to access it whenever you want. actually, these gatekeepers have unlimited power to do whatever they want. their potential power is unconstrained. the government is saying, we're in there, we're going to be a
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cop on the beat, make sure that when internet access providers connect with other networks like netflix and other players, they have to treat them fairly, and when they send them to me, they have to be fair. >> from your perspective, cable companies trying to compete with netflix. netflix wants to sell you the stuff. they have to use the cable company's pipe to get that stuff. and the cable company is saying, maybe we'll slow down the netflix connection a little bit, and you think, screw it. that's the fear, right? the fear is under the previous regulatory environment, it was theoretically possible for those providers to do that, essentially to strangle their competition. it was at least regulatorily possible. >> like chris christie and the bridge. the consumer would never know what was happening. >> that's a great example. that's very good. you're sitting in the traffic, and you're wondering, why is this traffic. and you figure out somebody put the cones there on purpose. >> the regulatory authority was unclear, not because they don't have the authority, but they
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slapped a different label on high-speed internet in the bush era. they called it an unrelated information service. turns out that's not what internet access is. it just gets you from point "a" to point "b" with information. the fcc has put a better label on it. they called it telecommunications services. >> so let me say this. let's say david cohen were sitting here, or someone else from my parent company were sitting here, they would say something along the lines of the following. this is investment capital intensive investment to lay this cable. there's fiber that certain companies are laying. we need to be confident to recruit that investment. you've just squeezed off our market incentive. you're laughing as i'm saying this, but this is the argument they're making. we don't know, we're not going to be regulated like a utility. maybe we'll stop laying cable. >> they're saying to wall street, this will make
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absolutely no difference to the way we invest our plans for this, comcast said it, and google said it makes no difference at all. >> they're telling wall street, don't worry, don't run from our stocks if this comes down. >> right. in fact, their stocks went up today. >> so, okay, the stocks went up today. is there some argument this is actually some kind of crony capitalist way of essentially creating barriers to entry, that you basically say the companies that exist now are going to exist forever? does anybody really like their utilities? >> actually, what they're banking on is the certainty that the chairman will not setting prices, not going to be requiring them to share their facilities with anybody else. so they've got that, hanging on to that, and that gives them a lot of certainty. the president at the same time is pushing competition into this marketplace. right now, three out of four americans can only get one choice for their -- >> one choice. you move into the apartment, you've got one choice. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me.
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to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come. fox news, the president and ceo of concerned women for america, that the sequel to the movie "frozen" is going to ruin boys. the new "frozen" movie coming out in a little while, from what we've seen, it looks like they depict men as evil and cold and bumblers. that's what it looks like. what kind of message does that send? >> well, it's not just disney. i mean, it's hollywood in general has often sent the message that men are superfluous, that they're stupid, that they're in the way, and if they contribute anything to a family, it's a paycheck. >> hot takes there from your friendly neighborhood fox news stars, uncovering the hidden
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unjustice men are suffering in hollywood right now, the man-hating disney empire, brainwashing our children with evil or bumbling characters like hercules or aladdin, just to name a few. >> we want to raise real men. we want to encourage masculinity. >> it would be nice for hollywood to have more male figures in those kind of movies. >> strong male figures. absolutely. we can both be heroes. >> indeed. >> that's true. seriously, if disney does feel marginalized of the gender, the numbers collected. the top grossing film in 2013 across more than 4,500 speaking roles, about 30% were women and 70% were men. just 28% of films even have a female lead or co-lead. my advice to steve is, let it go, let it go.
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international terrorism, accusations of a vast government cover-up and conspiracy, an arrest warrant for a world leader, president, and then the death of the man apparently about to reveal it all. the actual craziest story in the world right now is happening in argentina. it all began 20 years ago. >> horror of a different kind in argentina today. crowds gathered quickly around the rubble. all that was left after a powerful blast leveled the seven-story building. there was no warning for the people inside. it was the worst terrorist attack in argentina's recent history. 85 people killed, hundreds more injured, when a car bomb blew up
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outside a jewish community center in buenos aires. attention quickly centered on hezbollah and iran as the culprit. >> after the explosion, argentina sealed its borders and detained an iranian citizen as he was about to board a flight out of the country. >> but the initial investigation into the bombing was so badly botched, no one was prosecuted in connection with the bombing. so a new investigation was launched, ten years after the attack. and then the president put prosecutor alberto nisman in charge of it. nisman also believed that iran and hezbollah were responsible. then recently, as he worked on the case, a shocking allegation emerged. nisman charged that the current president of argentina, the wife of now deceased president who appointed nisman to his position, was trying to cover up iran's involvement in the bombing in return for oil.
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kirshner denied all charges. and one day before a scheduled appearance before the national congress, nisman was found with a gunshot wound to the head. >> investigators say the death happened under questionable circumstances. just hours before the prosecutor planned to detail explosive allegations of a high-level government cover-up. >> protests broke out in the streets with many accusing the government of orchestrating nisman's death. meanwhile, the administration said it looked like a suicide. the president also suggested it was a suicide. then appeared to change her mind. writing on her facebook page that, they used nisman while he was alive, then they needed him dead. as to who "they" are, suggesting that the president could have been referring to assad, the cia, or argentina's own powerful intelligence service which she has now vowed to disband. meanwhile, the journalist who
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broke the news to nisman's death, fled to israel saying he was being sought out by security forces. now, there's new evidence of just how far alberto nisman was prepared to go with his investigation. officials now say alberto nisman had drafted a document requesting the arrest of argentina's president christina fernandez. >> found in the garbage of nisman's apartment after his death, drafts of arrest warrants, the president and her foreign minister. it opens up more questions in what is rapidly becoming one of the biggest spy thriller whodunits of all-time. >> there's so much more to this story. is there a connection, and the mysterious spy master killed just before nisman's death.
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joining me to walk us through this, a new york based correspondent for argentinean tv. the story is hard to believe is happening. it really does feel like a movie. >> it's a movie, or a novel. and the country's completely shocked and outraged, and puzzled. everybody. >> everyone must be just at the edge of their seats. let's start with this, okay? first of all, did he kill himself? that was the original determination of a police investigator, and people said this is crazy and suspicious. he was going to testify in two days. he was making interviews with journalists. do we know one way or the other? >> het me start by saying for the american audience, that this is -- imagine the cia or the national security agency working
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line in line with a high-profile prosecutor. and after a rigorous investigation, they accuse president barack obama and secretary of state john kerry of secretly dealing with al qaeda to cover up something related to 9/11. so it's huge. it's unprecedented. >> right. >> put it that way for the american audience to fully understand -- >> it would be the most explosive news story in the history of the american republic. in the modern era. >> that's why everybody's puzzled. and the biggest fear is that this case never gets a solution, never gets solved, of the 1994 bombing. >> so let's say -- his ex-wife -- his ex-wife -- >> nisman's ex-wife doesn't believe this. during the burial ceremony, she gave a very powerful and very moving speech. and she said that she's
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persuaded this was not a suicide. >> we have no definitive medical determination from an autopsy medical person, whether it was or not, right? >> you know, the initial reports came back, the autopsy reports and forensic reports found no gunpowder in his hands. so, you know -- >> hard to imagine, right. >> i mean, everything's possible. i'm not here -- >> to say one way or the other. >> exactly. >> let's assume he was killed. then it becomes a whodunit. who's got the motive. there are some people who think this somehow was the kershner government. he was going to blow the whistle on this corrupt deal they made with iran to cover up a terrorist bombing in exchange for oil. they got wind of it. there was an arrest warrant in the garbage and kershner had this guy whacked. >> supposedly in exchange for oil, and for an arms deal of some sort.
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>> right. >> but, you know, i saw many interviews on tv with the former prosecutor who is now dead. he seemed very confident, very secure of the evidence he was going to show before congress. it's important to remark that he appeared dead in his apartment the day before he was going to present his evidence before congress. so the whole public, the whole country wanted to listen to what he had to say. and we were prevented -- >> the question becomes, okay, let's -- now, kershner appears to be saying essentially that she's being set up by a rogue head of an intelligence agency, a man by the name of cuso, who is an argentinean j. edgar hoover. he ran this intelligence agency. there's one blurry photo of him that exists. >> he was called secretary of intelligence, and last week in a very political speech, president kershner announced that she was dissolving the whole thing. and submitted to congress a new bill to completely dismantle it
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and create something new called the federal intelligence agency. >> so this is like the -- like saying we're dissolving the cia. she fired this guy six months ago, right? >> yes. in december. after many, many years he was a legend. >> there's a theory of the case that they pulled to that this is a reprisal, he's basically engineered some setup to frame her for this murder. >> exactly. that he planted false information, and prosecutor nisman, who has been investigating for many years, he was in fact the one who formally accused the iran government. so that's the -- >> the different theories. >> you know, she was misled, so he made the government look really bad. and then -- >> and then he turns around and essentially -- thank you for being here. incredible story. >> you're welcome. i hope it gets solved. >> yes. the rachel maddow show starts right now.
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i will tell you, i was in the makeup room telling that story, and as soon as you finished, everybody in the room went, wow. that's an amazing story. thanks. appreciate it. what do the st. louis cardinals have in common with the kingdom of belgium? this is not a trick question. it is not a beer related question. what do the cardinals have in common wit


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