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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  November 20, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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people and leave it for the straight people. they took it away from the straight people, too. congratulation, oklahoma governor mary fallon, you're about to be way, way more famous than you have ever been before. that does it for us tonight. thank you for being with us >> we are expecting a live press conference at this hour by the florida republican congressman who was convicted in washington today of possession of cocaine. and we may have reached the point where the only way to get out good news about the affordable care act is to leak it to glen greenwald service stamping it top secret. >> the obama administration's self-imposed deadlines. >> ten days before the administration's deadline. >> for fixing the federal health exchange website. >> obama care. >> obama care. >> obama care. >> they need to get this right. >> it passed the glitches with
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the website. >> the website and enrollment situation -- >> it will be a lot better. >> -- is in a better place today than two or three weeks ago. >> the health care law needs to be scratched. >> get rid of it? >> that's the only way it will work. >> i'm willing to work with democrats and republicans to fix this. the affordable care act is going to work. >> i think i'm pretty white, the whitest guy i know, i'm very pale. >> there is good news about the affordable care act tonight. it is not about the website. it is not about the enrollment numbers. good news about part of the law that almost no one thought would really work, including many of the law's supporters. at fordable care act was first and foremost designed to help extend health insurance to people who could not afford it. secondary purpose of the bill, but a very important part of that law was to reduce the
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explosive growth of health care spending and inflation in the health care sector. new report today by the council of economic advisers shows that the affordable care act may be doing just that, and doing it better than its strongest supporters ever imagined. health care spending growth is now the lowest ever recorded at an estimated 1.3%. inflation is at its lowest rate in 50 years, at just 1% inflation in the health care sector. this has forced the congressional budget office to reduce its projections of future medicare and medicaid spending significantly, representing about a 10% reduction in projected spending on the government's biggest health care programs. and an analysis of the affordable care act indicates that around 1.5% of people buying health insurance under the affordable care act will
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actually pay more than they were paying for health insurance before the affordable care act. joining me now is msnbc's crystal ball and jonathan gruber, mit professor of economics who helped write the massachusetts health care law. professor gruber, this number, the 1.5% is what we've been wondering about since we first started hearing the stories about policy cancellations and people having to get new insurance and what we wanted to know is how many of these people will actually end up paying more? some estimates said maybe 5% but it turns out to be something very low. >> well, the main point, lawrence, is that most americans are simply not affected. most americans get their health insurance from their employer, the government are not affected. it's the roughly 4% of americans who buy health insurance on their own who could potentially see higher prices and of that, only about a third or about 1.5% of people actually end up paying more for their health insurance under this law.
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>> i want to put up a graph that indicates exactly what you said, i think one of our numbers in it might be slightly off but we have a graph showing that 80%, 80% are unaffected by the affordable care act in terms of their costs, 15% are the, are uninsured who will get health insurance that they did not previously have, and then the group you were just talking about, jonathan, is that group, 2.5 will get a similar plan, 1.3 or approximately 1.3 will buy a better plan but get subsidies from the government to buy that plan so they will be better off and the bottom of our graph we had it at 1.3 but it's actually 1.5, must buy, by law, they're being in effect ordered to buy a better plan with no subsidies, and so crystal, that political problem is actually something that doesn't affect 98% of people out there. >> that's right, and the odds
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are showing in that chart the number of people who will be unaffected is obviously vastly larger and the number of people benefiting from the affordable care act is a much larger group and what's been really distressing and i think just openly dishonest and disingen ruse about the republican position is they express great concern for this 1.3%, who will have to buy a better plan for more money, but there's no concern at all for people who have no health insurance, for people who can get kicked off their plans at a moment's notice, for people who can't get health insurance for preexisting conditions, and i also have to say, you know, we have to remember, in that 1.3% of people who, some of whom have chose on it buy essentially bare bones policies and take a risk, that they see as a personal risk that they're not going to get catastrophically ill. in fact it's not just a personal risk. if they get catastrophically ill and their health insurance bare
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bones policy does not cover it and they show up at the emergency room, we provide them care as a society and those costs we all pay, so that's part of why we've had high medical costs. it is not a personal risk that these people buying bare bones policies are making. is a collective risk that we are all footing the bill for now. >> professor gruber, i want to go to shocking new numbers on inflation in the health sector, an all-time low, 50-year low and spending increases in the health sector. these are shockingly low numbers. some of this surely has to do with the recession and slowdown in spending generally in the economy, but normally, health care spending is resistant to that kind of normal economic behavior. what else other than the affordable care act would we ascribe these amazing new numbers to? >> look, there's basically three things that they've been ascribed to.
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one is economic conditions, as you mentioned. the other is there has been a general growth in the share of health care spending that people are asked to bear through higher deductibles and the third is the changes being induced by at fordable care act but we know that the third must be at least a healthy part of the story and here's how we know. the economy has gotten better, the slowdowns only increased. it's been even slower as the economy is getting better. we know that these changes are happening in the medicare program where the economic conditions and the higher copayments don't affect people. so that basic evidence is suggesting that it's something beyond economic conditions and something beyond higher deductibles for individuals. it's the affordable care act having some effect. how much is hard to ascribe but remember, this is just the effect of the affordable care act essentially changing the way health care is practiced and this is early. there are a number of exciting changes the affordable care act brings into place to control health care costs that haven't gone into place yet.
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>> there's another element that i observed over the years, which is when the government shows extreme interest in health care costs and health care inflation, it tends to go down, including and professor, this is kind of fascinating, in 1993-1994, when congress and the clintons were on the health care crusade to try to achieve what president obama did achieve they ended up doing absolutely nothing. they legislated absolutely nothing and yet during that two-year period of that crusade, these numbers went down. there was a reaction inside the health care sector that said they're watching us. they're going to try to control our costs. let's show them that we know how to control our costs, and you can never prove that, but it is fascinating that merely a tremendous amount of government attention to it, actually in the past, seems to have had an effect. >> that's amazing and i haven't heard that connection before but
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that is incredible that just putting that sort of attention and that sub shine -- >> they know they're being watcheded. >> minding their ps and qs. the other thing here is republicans, right, they want to balance the budget, they want to cut the deficit and the debt, they should be very excited about these numbers. they won't be and they're clamoring for entitlement reform mostly focused around medicare, medicaid and social security. this president has done more to cut our projected problems with medicare and medicaid than any president in recent history by helping to get these health care costs under control. you don't have to cut benefits. you don't have to cut off poor people in order to get those cost savings. i think that is also something that's really exciting, and that's really exciting for liberals because this is the argument that we've been making, that you could do this without having to cut benefits. >> and professor gruber, you can't be serious about deficit reduction or budget controls in the federal budget, if you don't have a suggestion about how to
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help contain costs in the health care sector, since the government is already so heavily invested in that sector through medicare/medicaid, veterans health benefits. that's why 20 years ago republicans were proposing plans based on what they thought would do this kind of thing, help control these costs. >> well, for instance if you look forward to the budget projections by the cbo, more than 100% of our ongoing budget deficit is due to health care costs. the whole rest of the government absent health care actually their deficit position improves over the next 20 years. it's all health care spending so the only way we are going to improve our deficit is controlling health care spending. the only way is not to sit with the existing status quo but be innovative. the affordable care act just by raising atension to the issue much as the clinton law did in
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the early '90s has gotten providers and consumers saying we need to think about the way we're doing this, form exciting new organizations and new interesting flexible limited network products to try to bring consumers into the purchasing decision and that's going to move forward. to repeal the affordable care act would be to go backwards and reverse the gains over the last few years. >> crystal, i don't know how the administration considerable -- there's a mixed bag of news. there's a flow of bad news in certain parts of it, the website and so forth, but when there is good news i just don't know how they can get it out at this point. i suggest stamping it top secret and leaking it to glen greenwald. the astonishing numbers on the inflation and the costs and the 80% unaffected for example. >> well and the trouble is of course republicans have put
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anything that they had any thoughts of doing like immigration reform or even the budget deal that they're supposed to be working on with democrats, they pushed that all to the side, in favor of cheering about how obama care is not going well in terms of the website, and in terms of a few other things. so they're not providing any sort of distraction. they're trying to focus all of the media's attention here. it's difficult, this is a story the media wants to write, they're searching for the anecdotal evidence of this person and that person, who was better off before obama care. eventually the story will flip and people will see the overwhelming benefit it is providing to the country >> if the obama administration could get 80% unaffected by the affordable care act into some nsa secret document and get that leaked it would be a front page headline. krystal ball and jonathan gruber, thank you. coming up the latest on a defeat of a 20-week abortion
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ban. and toronto mayor rob ford is joined in the re-write tonight by america's very own cocaine using congressman. do you think that congressman should be forced to resign? i'll give my answer coming up. we are standing by for a live news conference from that florida republican congressman in this hour. and we have more video of that wild police shooting in new mexico that one police trainer is already using as an instructional video for how officers should not use their firearms.
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a massachusetts state senate voted to raise the state's minimum wage to the highest in the nation of $8 an hour, already higher than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. if that bill becomes law massachusetts minimum wage would rise to $11 over the next three
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>> we're just getting warmed up. now -- >> assertions made by senator clinton as well as her husband that are not factually accurate. >> and then using tactics right out of karl rove's playbook so shame on you barack obama. >> she compared our campaign to karl rove. >> what about the obama handout covered up implying that i was a crook. >> i endorse him and throw my full support behind him. >> i have known hillary clinton as a friend, a colleague. i had no doubt that hillary clinton is the right person to lead our state department. president clinton, you need to appoint him secretary of explaining stuff. i like that. >> joining me now is msnbc.com executive editor rich are wolfe
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author of "the message" and jonathan allen, upcoming book is "hrc: state secrets and the rebirth of hillary clinton." jonathan, as the hillary clinton expert here of the panel, she has traveled a long road from that presidential primary debate stage to where she could today, watch the president of the united states drape the medal of freedom around her husband's shoulders. >> i was waiting for president obama to recommend president clinton for sainthood. >> he's got a few more years. >> perhaps that nobel prize that bill clinton never won that obama did. look, over five years a lot has changed. there's been both a political necessity for barack obama to grow closer to the clintons and for them to grow closer to him. remember bill clinton after the 2008 campaign had embarrassed himself a lot on the trail. there were some people who suggested that he had behaved in
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a fashion of race-baiting during that campaign and his ability to campaign for barack obama over the last few years and his wife's working in obama's cabinet certainly brought them closer together, if they're not tight at least they've created a political partnership. >> let's listen to what president obama said today about his gratitude for bill clinton's advice. >> i'm grateful bill as well for the advice and counsel that you've offered me on and off the golf course and most importantly for your life saving work around the world, which represents what's the very best in america, so thank you so much. president clinton. >> richard, in politics there's no such thing as leaving today's enemies for dead because you don't know when you're going to need them. >> right. and of course they have this symbiotic thing moving forward. president obama needed clinton
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through this last cycle and -- >> needed hillary clinton in his first general election campaign. >> exactly. and now the favor's going to be returned or the debt is going to have to be repaid because the clintons will need president obama to deliver up his coalition for them, if indeed as we all expect if hillary clinton runs and gets the democratic nomination. what's interesting is just this prickliness there, the clenched jaws, the body language, the reluctant praise. i don't know how they're going to talk about each other. it will be fascinating to watch that unfold in full public view through '15 and '16. >> president obama did get reelected with bill clinton's help. there has to be some genuine good feeling there. do you have any sense of how much of it has developed as genuine, positive human feeling, especially between the president and his former secretary of
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state? >> well, look, i think it's pretty clear that the relationship between president obama and secretary clinton is one that seems to be a lot warmer than between the two presidents who seem to have an appreciation for each other's skills but not necessarily a warmth and i think in that "60 minutes" interview at the end of her tenure, and some other places along the years you've seen them physically their body language, the way that they talk about each other seems a lot warmer. the two presidents, i think it's hard for either one of them to really give any ground to the other. i think these are two bulls, two macho guys. neither one wants to acknowledge the other might be better than him at some things. >> republicans are making counter noises to the democratic party enthusiasm about hillary clinton running for president. charles crouthhammer saying she's a paper tiger, i think the republicans can beat her. let's listen to him talking
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about what she actually accomplished as secretary of state. >> you know she's got her strengths but let me ask you this, you know the hyperbole about her being secretary of state, name me one thing she achieved in the four years, one. i'm not asking for a kissinger-china-middle east. i'm not asking for a bake e i'm not asking for a george schultz or a george march shl. tell me one thing she achieved in the four years. >> i posed that question to politico reporters before and they can't come up with anything because there isn't anything, charles. >> she traveled a lot. >> yep. >> well, so do i. >> well i can pose it to a politico reporter. tell me what she accomplished as secretary of state, jonathan, go ahead. >> look, i think there were some smaller accomplishments, certainly opening things up in burma, if you look at the iran sanctions she worked on as secretary of state, they're now
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obviously opening up a door to possible negotiations with iran, a new s.t.a.r.t. treaty with russia. there are things at the margins, certainly not a middle east peace deal. anyone who struck a peace deal in the past has seen it fall apart maybe not as secretary but at some point. there isn't a start of a marquee peace deal like the balance kins or anything like a middle east deal for her to hang her hat on and that's something she's going to have to talk about on the campaign trail. >> richard, republicans are saying she was overestimated as a candidate the first time she ran and got knocked off by the new guy and she's being overestimated again. >> can i just pick up on this question? you know, the gang that brought us the war in iraq and america's being, you know, this loath superpower in the world, you know, recovering from that was no small diplomatic feat. you don't have a date in peace accords but cleaning that mess up was a monumental effort.
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it's easy to say that was obvious. how come over eight years of the bush administration, krauthammer cheering them on, they never managed to do that basic diplomacy. i think that's an achievement. >> answer the big question that apparently no one can answer for charles krauthammer. thank you for joining me. >> thank you, lawrence. we are expecting a news conference from that florida congressman who pleaded guilty to cocaine possession, that should happen within this hour. and we have more video tonight of the new mexico state police shooting that is a clear violation of that department's own rule on the use of deadly force. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die.
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rob ford, the crack-smoking mayor of toronto -- >> this, folks, reminds me of when -- sudan attacked kuwait. >> he should stick with the crack and not with the apologies. >> saddam hussein attacking kuwait. the reference may be dated but in rob ford's defense, it may be one of the last things he remembers. >> this is god's gift to comedy this guy. i love this guy. >> it is fun to make fun of rob ford and very easy.
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you can imagine my horror and i received an e-mail from a friend of the show, david schepp who reminded me that i was missing the important lesson in the rob ford story. david attached a piece he had just written for time.com which i offer as a rewrite of my coverage of the rob ford story. ridiculing ford is easy. what's harder is to look at his destructive behavior to stop attributing it to him being out of control. look at the cause, addicts actions defy all logic but are explained by the impact of drugs on the human brain and the fact that not all brains react the same way. addicts' brains become hijacked by drugs, brain regions associated with judgment, cognition, restraint and moderation are as good as dismantled, causing impulsivity and unrestrained desired for pleasure and cloudy thinking. in the meantime the addicted brain deprived of a healthy
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amount of the dope amine intensely craves drugs. atickets described a need for drugs that feels like the need for oxygen, deprived of it, humans would kick, scratch and claw for a breath of air. because of a broken dope amine system, addicts can feel as if they're fighting for their lives and they may be. they'll lie, cheat and steal for more, even while their actions become more and more reprehensible. when i first heard ford described as the crack smoking mayor i chuckled but i thought about the reality of smoking crack. when as a teenager my son became addicted to methamphetamine and heroin he also ccused crack. i initially thought he was a self-ish, hedonist teenager, but i learned that he wasn't having a good time. he was in pain and using drugs in spite of a desire to stop. in the past few days, ford has seemed crazier in the successive press conferences as the toronto city council stripped the mayor
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of most of his power he remained defiant refusing to step down a tacking his attackers declaring an outright war. in his current state he is unfit to be running a city but he doesn't need kren sewer nor does he need to be the brunt of our snickering, he needs treatment. republican congressman trey radle needs treatment as he pleaded guilty to possession of cocaine. he told the court shall it -- we're going to his prose conference right now. >> i'm sorry. i have no excuse for what i've done. i am not going to sit here and try and make any excuses for what i've done. i have let down our country. i've let down our constituents.
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i've let down my family. including my wife, even though he doesn't know t i've let down my 2-year-old son. i'm here tonight to take responsibility for what i've done. to be held accountable for the bad decisions that i made in my life, and to own up to my actions. i have been getting the help that i need, and i will continue to get the help that i need, and the support system that i need for years to come. i'm doing so because i want to be a better man. i want to be a better man for you. i want to be a better man for southwest florida, and most importantly i want to be a better man for my family, my dad, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, my wife, and my little guy. i will be taking a leave of absence. during that i'm going to donate
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my salary to a charity. i believe in faith. i believe in forgiveness and redemption. and i hope if there's anything positive that can come out of this, and i know there will be positive that comes out of this, it's that i hope i can be a role model for millions of others struggling with this disease. i would ask for your prayers. and i don't ask for prayers for me. i ask for your prayers for my family. that's what's most important. it's what i'm focused on, my recovery, my health, and my family. on a very personal note, you know, i feel like i've grown up really in the public eye here in
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southwest florida, from my time of working as a reporter, building up a business, hosting a radio show, and following the terrible and tragic death of my mother, i remember it like yesterday. there was a group of people that came up to me and they were giving their condolences and they said, trey, we are so sorry to hear about the passing of your mother, and the terrible situation around it, but you've been with us for so long, we want to you know that we're here for you. you are southwest florida's adopted son. and that is something that has stuck with me after all of these years. and i hope, like family, southwest florida can forgive me for this. i've let them down. but i do believe in faith, forgiveness and redemption and i
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hope to come out of this a stronger man, a better man, for all of you. thank you so much for being here, because it is important that i share the message of responsibility. with that said, i am always open to talking with you, and taking questions. >> reporter: you gained the trust of southwest floridians again and assure them you are going to go to work for them 100%? >> that's what i'm doing here tonight, owning up to my actions. i am taking responsibility and i'm living it very publicly. i'm being held accountable for the decisions that i made in my life and i have found treatment and working on treatment and like anything in life i have to rebuild that trust and i fully understand that and i will do that. i have to rebuild the trust with southwest florida, with the constituents, with this home that i love so much and means so much to me.
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i also need to do it for my family, for my wife and to are my son. >> reporter: we have to ask, we haven't seen your wife. why hasn't see been with you in court and tonight. i know it's hard for her but where is she? why not? >> my wife is at home with my son tonight and i will tell you there's nothing more than i want right now than to go home and hug my wife and my little guy and i'm going to be doing it soon. >> reporter: are you going to rehab from here? >> yes, with respect to my wife, she has been incredible. my wife is my rock and she has been so supportive through this, and i came to her and i told her what had happened, and she said, "i married you to be with you and stick with you in good times and bad," and she has been incredible. i do have trust to rebuild and i have to mend her heart, which i've broken and i've broken a lot of hearts, and i need to
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regain that trust and rebuild our relationship, but she has stuck with me and will continue to stick with me and i'm just so proud to have my wife. she is my rock through all of this. [ inaudible questions ] >> i will be going in to treatment and i'll start with intensive in-patient treatment. i have already begun the process. i -- look, sometimes in life you need a wake-up call. this is my wake-up call. i've been struggling with this, but i have had my wake-up call and now know what i need. i need to take responsibility, own up to decisions that i've made, and move forward and i'm doing just that. i'm getting the help i need and to there, i will work on rebuilding the trust that i have with southwest florida and i hate the word constituents.
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what this is about is my friends, my family, and my neighbors, and each and every one of you. >> you were on the floor voting the day this happened. >> once again, with resignation i'm taking a leave of absence. i'm taking a leave of absence. >> how will represent us in the time of your leave of absence. >>? sure i will be taking leave of absence in all offices, this team that i have in washington and here in southwest florida will be working every single day, like they have for this past year, for you. they're working hard. they're here to serve the people and this will continue to do so. i will take a leave of absence, taking the responsibility that i need to own up to what i need to do, to get well, come out of this as a better man. i'm struggling with this disease but i can overcome it. and i know that i can be a role model for millions of people struggling with this. >> [ inaudible question ] >> sure, i knew that i, in keeping with everything that
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i've done, i believe in accountability and i believe in transparency. that's what i'm doing here tonight and i knew that this day would come. i knew it would come. i had to be accountable and responsible and open with my wife and all of my family. i'm here tonight being open and accountable with the people of southwest florida and quite frankly the country. with the delay that was just a matter of counsel, they came to a resolution and here we are tonight. >> reporter: you were on the floor voting, how do you expect to be a qualified lawmaker -- >> i've been dealing with this off and on for years. the most important thing is to rely on professionals. that's what professionals do. they guide you through treatment. again, in a moment of just a personal thing to share, i grew up with a mom who struggled with alcoholism. it is not an easy thing to deal with.
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i don't want my son to go through that. what you do, in anything in life, you go to people who you know you can put your life in their hands to get the proper treatment and help that you need and the first thing that i need to do tonight is go to begin to mend that trust and relationship with my wife, who is with me, will on it stand with me, who i love, who is my rock. i'm going to hug my little guy, even if he's asleep tonight and i'm going to work toe do everything i can to be strong, to come out as a better man, serving southwest florida, serving our country, and doing what's right for my health, my recovery and our family here in southwest florida, thank you. >> that was congressman trey radel, and a live news conference in his district in southwest florida, where he began by saying simply "i'm
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sorry." he then said "i have no excuse for what i've done." this is after pleading guilty and being convicted today in washington, d.c., of possession of cocaine. he said he was here tonight to take responsibility for what i've done. said i want to be a better man. announced he's going to take a leave of absence so that he can submit himself to intensive what he called intensive inpatient treatment. he did say i have been struggling with this, he said present tense i'm struggling with this disease, toward the end when he was asked how long he's been dealing with this, he said i've been dealing with this off and on for years. joining me now is hunter walker, national affairs reporter for "talking points memo" and ryan greer, msnbc political analyst.
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hunter walker this is an extraordinary analyst. i heard the phrase "foot stamps" from someone trying to ask him about his vote in the house of representatives in favor of drug testing for food stamp recipients and applicants. that is the one question i would have, do you regret voting in favor of that? >> absolutely. he's from the libertarian wing of the tea party and as a member of that segment of the conservatives, he has supported, he even cosponsored a bill to lower minimum mandatory sentences. he's sort of pro-drug reform. he's supporting the legislation to support drug tests for people who need food stamps. he wouldn't have been able to get food if he was needy and had this problem. >> ryan grimm there's an interesting sequence here.
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he voted for the testing, drug testing for food stamp recipients in july. it was on september 19th when he decided to cosponsor an obscure bill in the house of representatives that only has 17 cosponsors which hunter just mentioned which reduces mandatory minimum sentences in dug cases, it would allow judges discretion to go below the mandatory minimums. now september 19th when he did that, sorry, september 17th, when he did that, by everything we know tonight he was clearly in the throes of his cocaine problem and you could see that vote as an unusual alliance with democratic liberals. it's 14 democratic liberals cosponsoring this bill and three republicans, and one of the republicans cosponsoring it had a cocaine problem at the time and as he said tonight "i knew
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this day would come." he knew he was going to get caught and was that what he was thinking that he would someday be standing in a court possibly facing mandatory minimum sentences and that's why he coconforred that bill? >> i don't, i don't think so. like hunter said he comes from the libertarian wing and he has kind of liberal social views. as you mentioned he was a reporter coming up. he's never really been one of these kind of evangelical tea party extreme is. that is more in line with his vote on food stamps. i think the vote on foot stamps was probably he didn't want to draw attention to himself. if you're a coke using republican congressman, you probably don't want to break with your party on the floor on a bill like that. you might draw attention to yourself. the lower profile of the mandatory minimum, you know, fits more with his politics and
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you know it might sound strange to say but i think it's a good thing to have people in congress who have experience with drug use, because they are writing laws for people who use drugs. so i think it's actually appropriate to have people who understand what it's like. i don't think they should be addicted while they're doing it but if he recovers from this he'll be a wiser lawmaker going forward. >> he can only demonstrate is he wiser by renouncing his vote on the food stamp drug testing for food stamp resip yernts. we're joined by luke russert. what has been the reaction today among the republican leadership in the house? >> well, the republican leadership, specifically john boehner was informed of congressman radel's arrest on
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tuesday, in fact, it was something that had not really been playing through the leadership ranks and that rangeled some of them. interestingly enough, lawrence, as i'm sure enough when john boehner took the speaker's gavel, house republicans would act in a good manner and carry themselves in high regard and have good personal conduct. they remember mark foley, a different case than this but attribute that to why they lost the majority in 2006. report of the ""cincinnati enquirer"" reports trey radel's father saying the leadership does not want his son to resign. they are comfortable with him taking this leave of absence so if we take trey radel's father at his word, apparently the leadership is okay with this. the last time there was a similar incident and a congressman in western new york,
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chris lee sent a topless photo of himself to a craigslist individual or an individual over craigslist the leadership got him out literally the day that broke so they seem to have some more leniency and believe this probably will not hurt them long-term but i will say they were on a pretty good tear regarding the president's health care law and for two days trey radel, who was an unknown congressman to the rest of the country, has been the talk of washington and on the national newscast and taken away from their message of carrying the president on his health care law. if this continues, maybe they will change their tune but so far they seem to be comfortable with this plan, so much as they let him anuns it on live t tonight. >> anthony weiner was hounded out of office by democrats, people in his leadership, for an awful lot less than what trey radel pleaded guilty to to in court today.
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ryan grimm, luke russert and hunter walker action thank you for joining me during this breaking news event. we have more video tonight of the new mexico state police shooting, that shooting is a clear violation of that department's own rule on the use of deadly force. pampers swaddlers was there. and now swaddlers are available through size 5, for many more firsts to come. ♪ pampers. yep. got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with new fedex one rate, i could fill a box and ship it for one flat rate. so i knit until it was full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really.
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we have more of that video of that new mexico police shooting that extraordinary video you've seen this week. there's a little more to it we're showing you next and a police trainer already using it in his classes as a lesson of how you should not use a firearm in police work. that's next. urance agent. maxwell is not. he's on geico.com setting up an appointment
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open the door! >> open the door! [ screaming ] [ gunshots ] >> that was new mexico state police officer elias montoya, violating his own police department's rule on the use of deadly force. we have a more complete version of the police video of that shooting incident now. it started when officer tony detavas stopped oriana farrell, a 39-year-old mother of five for driving 71 miles an hour in a 55-mile-an-hour zone near new
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mexico where i have driven and where no one observes the 55-mile-an-hour speed limit. after she was first pulled over, ariana farrell decided to drive off apparently before the officer issued a ticket. the officer pursued the mini van again and farrell pulled over again. you will see what happened next on raw footage of the new mexico state police dash cam video obtained by the associated press, in this version of the video we see not just two but three of ms. farrell's children got out of the van to try to help her. >> get out of the vehicle. get out of the vehicle right now! >> sir, just give us a -- >> get out of the vehicle right now. >> turn around and face your vehicle. ma'am, listen to me.
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>> please, don't u you said you would not -- >> no, no! no! [ screaming ]. >> please, please! >> get back in the car. >> sir, sir, please! [ screaming ]. >> no, no! >> get back, get back! get on the ground! get on the ground! get on the ground! [ screaming ] >> go, go! >> get on the ground! >> get out right now. get out! open the door! >> open the door! [ gunshots ]. >> joining me now is former new york city police officer eugene o'donnell, former law enforcement trainer. eugene, just from what you see what is wrong with that shooting? >> up until the point where there's a shooting there's ambiguity and issues you see in a car stop, but the clear line that's drawn here the agency
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draws the line american police forces draw the line, deadly force on a vehicle that's ultimately ends up driving away is completely inappropriate. >> the supreme court ruled a long time ago it is unconstitutional to shoot fleeing felony suspects, always improper to shoot at fleeing misdemeanor suspects. in some states they allowed that years ago. people believe when someone tries to flee from police the police have every right to shoot them. what their rule in new mexico says is they have a right to protect their own lives and the lives of others from what is reasonably believed to be an eminent threat of death or great bodily harm. i saw no threat to anyone as that car is driving away, i don't see a threat to anyone. >> firearms are a defensive weapon in the event your life is in danger. when somebody is leaving the scene of an incident trying to fire at the vehicle makes no sense at all. the officer said he was firing
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at the tires, perhaps even a marine sniper would have difficulty hitting tires. >> and that fire at the tire story is frequently a convenient adjustment made after the fact when the guy realizes that oh made a big mistake i wasn't aloued to fire. >> i'm not aware of any agency that tells the officer not to fire. >> they tell them not to fire under the circumstances. >> the new mexico state police deadly force rule is a pretty standard deadly force rule throughout the country, one of the model versions. they say decisions to discharge a firearm at or from a moving vehicle shall be governed by the use of force policy and are prohibited if they represent an unreasonable risk to the officer or others. the risk to others there is very clear. there's five kids in the car and a mother. >> even if you say ferz they're
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officers they're taken out of the way. the bullets are flying there's no predictable. >> most police bullets fired in the line of duty miss what they're aiming at to begin with. >> new york city police miss 80% of the time. >> these are the best trained firearms used in the country. >> well trained and firing at people. firing at a vehicle away from you trying to hit the tires is not advised by any police department i'm aware of. >> the other concept here is this is someone who, in the worst case scenario violated a traffic law. there's a possible of resistance of arrest, interference with arrest charge for the 14-year-old boy, that sort of thing. none of those things get the death penalty, if they go to court, and have a trial, and are found guilty of those things. and here is an officer who is, in effect, raising the possibility of the death penalty right there on the street. >> that's why there's a standard rule, a typical rule that is
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police work is a lot of ambiguity. this is not ambiguous. you cannot fire at a moving vehicle, certainly a vehicle that's going away after what may be at most a misdemeanor, maybe a minor felony. you can't be driving away from somebody. >> she ended up driving down the road into town and stopping at a hotel, which is what most people who the police are pursuing do, most of them stop. >> in fairness to the police they raised up the red flag up until the point if the guns come out you're thinking why is this person not complying but the rule is very clear in new mexico and beyond that you cannot fire a weapon at somebody under these circumstances. >> what train something all about is dealing with all those normal -- i grant everything i'm seeing there is a normal human emotion, within the range of normal human behavior including the range are anger, rage, firing the gun but train something rising above normal human behavior. >> typically police works all over the place.
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there's certain rules you can say and this say rule. >> a firearm is real clear. eugene o'donnell thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> chris hayes is up next. political armageddon. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. let me start with this. the dirty little secret of american politics today is this battle between president obama and his enemies is not a contest of achievement. no, it's about a president who wants to do great things, and preventing a third war with iran and -- against those who would deny others of different sexual orieio

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