tv The Cycle MSNBC July 11, 2013 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
right now, the 23rd day of the george zimmerman murder trial. 12 days of testimony, 56 witnesses, and one last chance for both sides to make their case. we're also in a storm watch, summer's ugly side is showing its face to millions of us this afternoon. the weather channel tracking it all. all the news as it happens this hour. it's the cycle.
right now the state is in the middle of the closing arguments and we're in a short recess. so let's start with lisa bloom. lisa, if we had a word cloud to mark his words in this closing argument, i think the biggest one would be assumption or assume, and second, would be lying. so he's trying to advance the idea that george zimmerman was profiling or making assumptions about trayvon martin and that he's been lying to this court. . >> well, that's right. and he brought up the language that george szimmerman used on the police call. the words he used when he initially saw trayvon martin and immediately came to a negative conclusion about him, he assumed he was a criminal. we all know that assumption was wrong. he was simply a teenager coming back with an arizona fruit drink and skittles, and i think that's an unassailable point. i don't think the jurors are
going to disagree with that. i'd like him to get to the fight. he hasn't gotten there yet. >> but if he didn't make those assumptions, we wouldn't be here at all. paul henderson is here, patrick murphy is here, jonathan capehart is going to help me out here. >> i'm going to pull a robbery from my friend lisa bloom and that is this, lisa said before she felt there was no theory of the case. and that's how i feel. there's no road map. there's no rhythm here. he's going on all the facts, he's telling a story but, again, you don't have that cinching everything together. that pattern, that rhythm. something to remember. >> patrick, throughout this whole thing, people have been saying the prosecution is not doing a good job. do you agree with that? >> well, i think overall, it's an okay close. but you're right in there has to be recency. the theme of his case is a
correct one. that's why i said it's an okay or good one because he's saying there's a teenage boy that was profiled and killed based on false assumptions. which goes to the underlying theme and theory of the case. now to get to the point, let's get to the nitty-gritty. let's make sure to put there and let the jurors know and be confident as a prosecutor saying, listen, why is it that this 150-pound skinny teenager was able to do that to a guy who may have overweighed him by 100 pounds and had a 9 millimeter. so there are obviously some strong points that need to be made in this closing argument. >> at this point, shouldn't we have gotten there yet? we are 60 minutes into this summation, my friend. shouldn't we have gotten to the theme? >> what do you think of that, paul? shouldn't the prosecution already have a theory they're advancing? >> well, i think that is the theory, that the teen was killed based on assumptions and, you know, i would like to hear it
woven in more of the argument, but he's laying out the picture. it's an incomplete picture, but i think it would be great if he told the jury that. that it's like a puzzle. and we see the picture, all the pieces aren't there, but why aren't the pieces there? because the pieces that were given to us by the defense do not fit. they're not complete because they're lies. i was also looking and i'm getting messages as i'm sure everyone else is with tweets and facebook messages about the race issue and when is that going to be part of the closing? i think it's interesting that he's preparing his closing and hasn't dwelled on that issue in terms of the stereotypes and the posturing from zimmerman and his tone about how he viewed zimmerman as he's making his arguments. but so far, i think he's doing a decent job and he's being very thorough and outlining all the ways that zimmerman has lied and has had inconsistencies. but it would be nice to hear more of that theme.
even a general one tied to all of the facts that he's presented to this jury. >> we've got one more hour -- >> or more. >> or more of the closing arguments. kerry sanders was inside the courtroom today. how are jurors reacting to the prosecution's closing? >> well, you know, you can't look at their faces and know what they're thinking. but they are for the very beginning of the closings paying direct attention to bernie as he's there without taking notes, just paying attention to what he's saying, following back and forth with his eyes. as he then began to move on, they started to get out note pads and at times jotting down. but it's not the same note taking they'd done during the trial when i'd seen them furiously looking down so long, i'm sure it looks like they're in school trying to catch up. one thing i thought was perhaps most interesting when bernie said do you believe there's an innocent man over there? and so as he was directing the jury towards -- over towards where zimmerman was seated, i
was looking directly at the jurors to see whether all of their eyes were going to then move in that direction. and i saw one of the alternates look that direction and nobody else. which i thought was interesting because i thought that you would expect to sort of like a tennis match and they would follow the action that direction where the prosecutor was pointing. but the jurors are engaged, they're following what's going on, i've seen during the presentation of some of the evidence during the trial at times it looked like they were distracted, not so here. but, again, you can't look at them and draw any sort of conclusions. >> all right, kerry, thanks. let's bring in mya wylie. mya, i'm glad you're here, there's something i want to talk about with you. this idea that's sort of come up over the last couple of days if there's an acquittal that many people are starting to predict will come that black folks are going to riot, right? what an insulting idea that we are so inherently violent that if we don't get the verdict that some of us want in this trial
that we're going to start looting and ripping up the country. what do you make of that? >> well, certainly i make that -- we've had a history in some high-profile cases where there have been riots after an acquittal. of course, everyone will think of the rodney king beating in which the police officers were acquitted and, of course, we saw riots in los angeles. we saw riots in overton outside of miami, in miami, black community after an acquittal after someone was killed. cincinnati in 2001. it's not that we don't have examples of having that happen, i think the question is what are the underlying circumstances that produce riots? it's not simply an acquittal. an acquittal is like a spark on a tinderbox. the tinder has to be building from unemployment rates being in communities where we have communities where black unemployment for people 25 and under is 60%. this happened in sanford, florida, this is not a community
that has that level of unemployment and certainly is not even predominantly black. so, you know, i think that the conditions have to be there, the conditions are usually social and economic conditions. i don't know that we have that in this case, but we certainly have a situation in which the black community generally is watching very closely and has suffered both high rates of unemployment and a lot of humiliation at the hands of law enforcement. and, so, i think it does strike a chord. >> i think people are watching this very closely. let's keep in mind, we are here at this trial because of nonviolent, disciplined protests that followed the rule of law in america and just to sort of expectation of violence is just sort of goes to the idea that some of us are saying that george zimmerman had toward trayvon when he was profiling him. and as you're pointing out that it almost always is accompanied by economics and people saying
that we don't have any other way to speak, we don't have jobs, that's what happened in l.a., not just the rodney king acquittal. >> that's correct. and, you know, so, certainly we have conditions that we should be concerned about. we have over 13% unemployment rate in the black community, it's twice the national average. it's not that we don't have some of those conditions. but to your point, i think what we -- what we first do, when we are able to organize around the issues that are important to communities and that's when we can get to and use the democratic process when we get here. one of the things people are looking for in this case was as a nation, are we going to pay attention to the fact that 24 states have stand your ground laws. sometimes they're called make my day laws. those are some of the conditions that are producing what really i would call the process of humiliating people who are black, people who are latino and
putting them in physical danger like trayvon was in. i had a conversation with ben krump, the attorney for the family in the civil case. and one of the things that he said to me was, i have so many cases that don't get the attention that trayvon martin murder is getting, rather the accused murder. i have so many cases that i can't get this level of attention of, the thing is, the black community is paying attention to those instances, will the rest of the nation pay attention to them? >> paul, you want to get in on this? >> when you're talking about black people and african-americans and making all these generalizations, there have been a lot of instances where the communities have felt like the criminal justice system is not going to give them the right justice they deserve or give them the right justice they expect. so having a case like this where you have so many sides polarized and i think you can't talk about the trayvon martin case without having a discussion about race.
but at this point, it marginalizes the discussion to contemplate that because we're having this discussion about race and because race is a factor in this case, we're going to have an expectation that african-americans are going to be creating riots or there will be riots throughout the country based on what's going to happen in this case. let's see what's going to happen in this case and, obviously, as we're all listening to the evidence, we have an opinion and a perspective about where we want the case to go and what we want that judgment to be. but i love the fact that even the family is saying that they just want justice to happen. they wanted this defendant to be held accountable in our criminal justice system. and that's exactly what's happening. >> we are watching, as soon as he starts talking again, we are going to get back to that. but race has been an undercurrent throughout this. is that the appropriate balance for you? >> it is. and there are 30,000 gun violent
deaths in america every year. and in 2012, trayvon martin was one of those cases and it's a tragedy every single time. but when you look at the closing argument, what bernie was bringing out, the fact that -- >> all right. let's go back to the court. >> all right. >> please be seated. you may continue. >> i'm showing you a photograph of the left hand of trayvon martin. and obviously in addition to the gun shot wound, that was the only other injury that was observed when the autopsy was performed. as you can see from that photograph, there is a minute or small right there, even smaller one over here an abrasion on his left hand. recall also the testimony was
that he was right-handed. so if the beating was as severe as i would submit that mr. zimmerman claims, then how did it occur? well, i guess -- maybe we can speculate, but i think even dr. demayo says sometimes you hit something and don't necessarily injure your hands. well, that could also be true for george zimmerman's hands. the defendant, george zimmerman, two people, one shot to death and one lies about what happened. why might that be? you wonder? if one is shot to dead and the other one lies? why would that person lie? he brought a gun to a struggle to a fight that he started by
following him and wanting to make sure that the victim didn't get away. and now he wants you to let him off because he killed the only eyewitness. the victim, trayvon martin who was being followed by this man who had the right to defend himself. the defendant's interview -- and you obviously know he gave various interviews. and i want to just quickly highlight certain points that i will submit to you are relevant as to establishing why this defendant is lying and why he was caught in numerous lies. and then obviously why it happened.
>> officer buchanan and i'm the coordinator and there's been a few times where i've seen a suspicious person in the neighborhood and we call the police, the nonemergency line, and these guys always get away. >> okay. what made them suspicious? do you have any tape or recordings of vehicles that come in and out of that neighborhood? >> last time they were down, the cameras -- >> it has the ability -- >> why did i put that thing about the camera in there? because as you recall, one of the ploys or tactics was to say, hey, maybe the victim had a recorder or maybe somebody videotaped it out there. he knew that didn't happen because he knew about it. he's the one that told the investigators, hey, contact mr.
taylor or leland whatever his name was, i'll give you his number, it's on my cell phone. so he knew there wasn't any videotaping out there of this. it wasn't like, oh, he took a gamble, you know, and he was really defending himself and, you know, he said, hey, i'll volunteer, go ahead and videotape it. or i'll wish there was. no, he knew there wasn't any. so it wasn't like he was forthcoming with that information as like a truthful person. >> um, dispatch asked me where he went. i didn't know the name of the street that i was on. >> so you'd come off your street and gotten to another street? >> yes, ma'am. goes in and cuts through the middle of my neighborhood. >> okay. >> i didn't know the name of the street. or where he went. so i got out of my car to look for the street sign and to see if i could see where he cut
through so i could tell the police. >> after you circled your car, he disappeared again? >> yes, ma'am. >> few key points there. didn't know the street name, only three streets and he'll tell you -- you'll see it, actually, from his own mouth when he's talking to the investigators out there. he names a street. but most importantly also or just as important is the fact that he's saying this man, trayvon martin is circling his car. so he's in such fear that he gets out of the car to go follow him? he's either truthful in saying he's circling the car or he's lying about it. either way, it shows he's not telling the truth. because if he's really that in fear of, why does he get out of the car? or is he saying that as another explanation as to why he maybe had to confront him as to explain that maybe it was the victim that attacked him.
you see the victim was already showing he was going to do something because he starts circling the car. and that's what a person that's about to commit a crime does. that's what he wanted the police to believe. >> to find out where he went and he said we don't need you to do that. and i said, okay. he said we already have a police officer in route. and i said, all right. and i had gone where through the dog walk where i normally walk my dog and walked back through to my street, the street that loops around. and he said we already have a police officer on the way and i said, okay, i told -- they said would you like a police officer to meet you and i said, yes, and i told them my car and the make and the model. so i was walking back through to where my car was and he jumped out from the bushes.
at that point, i -- >> okay. so few key things to remember there or point out that i would suggest to you. number one is where he walks his dog but he doesn't know the name of the street in terms of getting there, only, again, three streets. number two, he's walking back, he's told not to follow him. he decides to obey even though he wasn't ordered not to follow him. when this man came out of the bushes, you will see that he changes that and he catches himself. but you'll see it, it's coming up. because number one it's where those bushes were, but also at some point catches himself when he says i was going toward him -- oh, he came towards me. >> didn't even see him getting ready to punch me.
as soon as he punched me, i fell backwards into the grass. >> this man, trayvon martin, this teenager came at him. now, he's out there in the darkness and he's got a gun but, of course, he hasn't taken his gun out. because that would be illegal. he's got the right to conceal it. because he suspects somebody of a crime, he's not a police officer, he can't go arrest him. but he's just kind of wandering out there in the darkness even though this guy has circled his car, but he's not in fear. he's just kind of wandering, does that make sense? he goes out in the darkness after somebody's scared of and he's not on guard to what's going on. he's got to convince you -- the defense has got to convince you that he was just kind of walking and the victim came out of nowhere.
>> we object, your honor. may we approach for a moment. >> tell me your objection. >> improper presentation of the case law and the law concerning my client's obligations to prove anything. >> okay. ladies and gentlemen, at the close of the end of the attorney's closing arguments, i will instruct you on the law that's applicable to this case and you will be given that law back to the jury room to compare with how you find the facts to be. thank you. go ahead. >> he's trying to convince the police that he hadn't done anything wrong. >> on my nose and on my mouth and he says you're going to die tonight. >> again, now he's saying that the level of violence towards him is escalating. because trayvon martin just decides to shut him up by, you know -- and the amazing thing, and ooum going to get to this.
one of the slides that you will see, the power point presentations, he must have had like ten hands out there, ten arms, because he's able to do all this while the defendant's just sitting there letting him put his hands on him, not doing anything. does that make sense? >> my jacket and my shirt came up. and when he said you're going to die tonight, i felt his hand go down on my side and i thought he was going for my firearm. so i grabbed it immediately and as he banged my head again, i just pulled out my firearm and shot him. >> okay. and then what happened? >> so the gun wasn't exposed earlier, he's getting beat up, but he hasn't taken the gun out. it's only when the victim starts reaching for the gun. he tells someone he actually grabbed the gun. and then i realized as he's holding my hand, one hand over my mouth, one hand over my
nostril, i see it, he's got that third hand he's going for the gun. does that make sense? and the victim only went for the gun because the gun became exposed. your honor, with the court's permission, i've had the deputy check the gun bag. i'll have it checked again. thank you, sir. he's got this gun in this holster. and you'll see in a few minutes, maybe more than a few minutes, one of the things he does, he
demonstrates to the police where he had the gun. and it wasn't right here in the front, it was towards the back and it was hidden. and he'll demonstrate to the police out there where it was. look at the gun, look at the size of this gun, how did the victim see that in the darkness? where was it? it wasn't outside, it was tucked in behind. and he'll demonstrate to the police where it was. how did the victim see this gun? or is it just another lie that he tells? >> once i shot him, my holster,
my firearm, and i got on top of him and held his hands because he was still talking. and i said stay down, don't move. and then -- >> a key point in that is that he tells the officers out there, the police station and later on at the scene that he didn't realize originally that he had shot the victim. well, if he's in such fear and he hasn't -- doesn't realize he shot him, what the heck is doing holstering his gun? if he's so scared. or is that just police jargon. that's what police do when they shoot somebody. first they make sure the person's either dead or handcuffed and then they automatically holster the gun. but he's got that police jargon talking and that's what the police are taught. but if he's so scared, what is he doing holstering his gun.
he claims at one point the victim said, oh, he got me and he thought, oh, he scared him. he's trying to convince the police he didn't intend to shoot him at that point. that, yeah, he was in fear, but he wasn't intending to shoot him. he was trying to scare him maybe. >> it's always dark, they always come around nighttime. >> they always come around at nighttime. they being, pardon my language -- [ muted ]. again, going -- [ muted ]. that had skittles, that's the crime he committed that evening. skittles that he didn't even steal from 7-eleven. he legitimately bought.
you saw the videotape. he wasn't instilling fear into that clerk over there. because he was wearing a hoodie. but somehow this man right here became suspicious of a 17-year-old kid who is wearing a hoodie. at 7:00 in the evening, or 7:10 in the evening. >> the street through to see if there was a street sign to tell dispatch where i lost sight of him. and when i walked back, that's where he came out of the darkness and i guess he was upset that i called the police. >> now he's starting to speculate or trying to convince the police, oh, i guess that's why he must have attacked me or why he came out because he must have been upset that i called the police. so he's trying to justify to the police why he did what he did and, of course, it's not that he
came to the wrong assumption originally, it's, no, i was just checking for the street sign, i was just doing my job as a neighborhood watchman or just a citizen concerned about crime and i guess he came out of there because he must have realized that i called the police, meaning that first assumption still existing in miss mind. he's a criminal and that's what criminals do, they don't want to get caught. >> put the cell phone away. and when i walked back towards him, i saw him coming at me. >> did you hear that? when i walked back towards him -- he switches mid sentence, i saw him coming towards me. he acknowledges at that point he is the aggressor, he's the one going and pursuing the victim. but he catches himself when he says that and goes, oh, he walked towards me.
>> and i went -- i don't remember if i had enough time to pull it out or not. >> he claims he went for the phone because he's got to then explain why he being a 5'7" 204-pound perfectly healthy 28-year-old man is overpowered by this 5'11" 158-pound kid. and he being the one that's tracking him or following him, he's on guard, he's got two flashlights, he's got a gun. this kid is the one that's scared because this guy's following him. he's got to explain why this kid got the upper hand. oh, i was going for my phone and i just got distracted. was he going for his phone or going for a gun? were they in the same place?
the defendant's interview that same day part two. what did he do there? he drew different areas and it tracks in terms of where he was, where he claims he saw the victim, where the victim came out of nowhere, where the victim was looking suspicious and, you know, you've got that in evidence. i'm not going to spend a lot of time with that. but he drew the different places where he claims the victim was and what in his mind caused him to be suspicious of a 17-year-old boy. the defense made a big deal. oh, he was washed up. well, you've got this bloody photograph here and you've got that. i guess and according to dr. demayo, i guess one of the ems
people out there just kind of put it back in place, but the nose back in place because you heard from ms. falgate, what she recommended was go get crx-rays that's how we find out. the defendant refused. they're going to argue, oh, he had a broken nose. well, first of all, who was following who? who started the fight or struggle? i circled this because in reviewing evidence because i thought this might be interesting to you. and what i circled up there are his shoes. the defense claims -- the defendant told the police that he was on his back the whole time and the victim was just wailing on him. well, and you can look at the actual photograph. there's actually some grass on top and it appears wet as if maybe he was at some point on top of the victim. just a minor point to kind of
corroborate some of the evidence of the witnesses' testimony. state's exhibit 52, the back jacket of the defendant. wow. where's all the scrapes, scratch marks, something to reflect all this tension with the concrete that occurred out there. how come it's missing? back of his head, do you recall testimony there was two? how small were they? do you recall the testimony of the witness? i think i had -- tell me how big it was. and i think -- it was hard to keep. anyway, you remember it. why are his hands not injured if this 17-year-old young man is wailing on him, how come he's not defending himself?
and yet, these are just little parts of the interview that he gave, and you obviously heard this. i want you to take a second or read that. but he talks about these guys, talks about not knowing the places. again, he's trying to make up one lie after another after another. yeah, he was circling my car. as soon as i saw him coming, i rolled up my window because i was so scared of him because he was a criminal. i didn't know the name of the street i was on. then he talks about, you know, that remind him, we didn't need you to do that. had already gone through the dog walk, told them where my car was, jumped out of the bushes, hey, man, do you have a problem? and punched me and fell to the ground and he's wailing on my
head and i yelled for help, he grabbed my head and hit it into the sidewalk. when he started doing that, i slid into the grass still yelling for help. help! he's killing me! and then, of course, this criminal put his hands over my mouth and said you're going to die tonight. and that's what, of course, led me to the gun. he's got that legal training. that he's aware of in terms of what he's got to say. he, the victim said you've got me after being shot. and he was still talking. i said stay down, don't move. i got on top of him. he said, ow, ow. and then he's talking about he's telling them people came out, i don't need you to call the police, i need you to help me with this gun. but holsters his gun, too, at
the same time. it's always dark. they always come out around nighttime. then he talks about still not having seen the victim struck in the nose. i screamed help probably 50 times. anything else important, no. you didn't try to make contact with him? nope. then you can see the map. you can track down when you look at the time line in terms of where he's claiming he's at when he's talking. i would submit to you it doesn't. but, again, you rely on what the evidence shows. came out of the bushes. i don't recall if he came from the front or behind, he punched me in the face and i fell backwards. when i walked back towards him, i saw him coming at me. he catches himself in mid sentence. that is the truth. when i walked back toward him, meaning i was going towards where he was, then he goes, oh,
no, he was coming at me. and that written statement given to the police, my purpose in showing you this is, he now refers to the suspect. not, pardon my language, f'ing punk, he's the police term for a criminal. he's got that down pat. suspect over and over. trying to impress the police like he knows the stuff. hey, you know, i'm going to be a police officer one day. suspect this, suspect that, suspect that. fired one shot into his torso. you know, he's got all the language down. followed, had flashlight, but it
was dead. you got a problem, no, you got a problem, all of a sudden he beat him to the ground. felt him slide his hand down, you're going to die tonight, m.f. i don't hear what he said. let's talk about -- >> there's been a history of break-ins in that building and i called previously about this house. >> right. >> when the police arrived at this house when i called the first time, the windows were open and the door was unlocked. the police came and secured it and i said, you know what, it's better to just call and i kept driving. i passed him. and he kept staring at me and looking around. to see -- i don't know why. >> did he walk off from there or did you stop there last night? >> he stopped. and he -- he like looked around.
>> this is what he claims this criminal is doing. >> when you stopped? >> on the sidewalk or -- >> yeah, in the grass here. >> oh, that's a crime on sunday night, february 26th. standing out there in the grass. >> and i went to the clubhouse. >> all right. >> up here on the right-hand side. and when i got through, i parked at the clubhouse. >> all right. >> and they asked me, you know, where i was and i told them in the clubhouse and i think i gave the address of the clubhouse. >> where did you park at? >> right up here next to that green truck. i just pulled up. >> so you just pulled up here. >> yes, sir. >> and this is where you got out? >> no. this is where i was stopped to
call. to call. then he walked past me and kept looking at my car. and still looking around at the houses and stuff. so then the dispatcher said where did he go? what direction did he go? and i said i don't know, i lost -- because he cut down here and went right. twin trees lane. >> did you catch that? did you catch him in one lie right there? he originally told the police, over and over before and even after this interview, he didn't know the name of the street. and then when they kind of let him talk, he gives the name right there. i mean, it's common sense. there's only three streets and he's lived there four years. again, why did he have to lie about that? because he does not want to admit that he was following this innocent young boy. 17-year-old boy. >> right there and they said
what direction did he go? and i said, i don't know, i can't see him. and they said can you get to somewhere where you can see him? and i said, yeah, i can. so i backed out. and i -- >> and i parked right about that yard. >> in front of the ford truck? >> yes. and i saw this. and i saw him walking back that way through the back of the houses. he looked back and noticed me cut back through the houses. i was still on the phone with
nonemergency. and then he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and came down and circled my car. and i told the operator that he was circling my car. i didn't hear if he said anything, but he had his hand in his waistband. and i think i told the operator that. and they said where are you? and i could not remember the name of the street because i don't live on this street. it goes in a circle. and i said i don't know. and he goes we need an address. and i said i don't know an address. i think i gave them my address. >> two minutes earlier, a minute earlier, giving him the street name, but now he's telling this investigator that's the reason he had to go and follow -- i'm sorry, not follow, he had to go find the address. because he wants to justify as to why he would go down that route just by coincidence keeps
kind of tracking where this criminal is going. >> look for a street sign. so i got out of my car and started walking -- >> go ahead. >> i was still on the phone with the nonemergency and i started walking. >> okay. >> and because i didn't see a street sign here, but i knew if i went straight through that's tree view circle. give you the address of the house here in front. but there's no address because this is the back of the houses. >> did you catch him there? did you see that? there's an address right there
to the right, but, of course, he directs the attention of the investigators, see, this is the back of the house, there's no address there. like they're just fools. >> and i didn't see him at all. he was walking. i looked around and i didn't see anybody. and i told the nonemergency. i said he's gone, he's not even here. >> right. >> so i still don't see their address so i walk all the way. i actually walked all the way to the street and i was going to give them this address. and they said, well, if he's not there, do you still want a police officer? and i said, yes.
and they said you still want a police officer? and i said, yes. and they said are you following him? oh, i'm sorry, they said back there are you following him? and i said, yes, well, i'm in the area. >> he's only following him because he happens to be in the area. >> we don't need you to do that and i said, okay, that's when i walked straight through here to get the address. and they said -- i said he's not here, and they said do you still want him to come? and i said, yes. i pass here, and i look, didn't see anything again and i was walking back to my truck. and when i got to right about here, he yelled from behind me and beside me. he said, yo, you got a problem? and i said, no, i don't have a problem, man. >> where was he at? >> he was about there, but he was walking towards me.
>> which direction here? >> like i said, i was already past that. so i didn't see exactly where he came from. he was about where you came from. and i said, no, i don't have a problem. and i reached to grab my cell phone but i left it in a different pocket. i looked down in my pocket and he said you got a problem now and he was here and punched me in the face. >> right here? >> right in this spot. around here. i don't remember exactly. i stumbled and i fell down and he pushed me down and somehow he got on top of me. >> on the grass? >> it was more over here. i think i was trying to push him away from me. he got on top of me somewhere around here.
i started screaming, help, help as loud as i could. >> notice what's right there, one of the sprinkler boxes. could that have caused some of the injury? >> and that's when i started screaming for help. i started screaming help, help as loud as i could. and the -- and i had my firearm on my right side. >> did you see where he's pointing to? do you see where he's grabbing? where he's got his firearm? >> my jacket moved up and he saw it. i feel like he saw it -- he reached -- i felt his arm going
down. >> one of his other versions is that he actually grabbed the victim's arm and removed the arm so he would have a better shot. again, he's able to do all this, i guess the victim has two or three hands or arms. see if that all makes sense what he's describing. >> flipped him over? >> i don't know. got on his back and moved his arms because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head, i thought he had something in his hands. so i just moved his hands apart. >> and you saw the photograph taken by mr. manalo. again, lying about that. because he's trying to justify to the police that he was
searching because, of course, the victim had to have something in his hand, meaning some kind of weapon that would've caused him to resort to the shooting him. >> he sat up -- yes, sir, he was on top of me like this and i shot him. and i didn't think i hit him because he sat up and said, oh, you got me. you got it, you got me, something like that. so i thought he was just saying i knew you had a gun now, i heard it, i'm giving up. i don't know if i pushed him off me or he fell off me or either way. >> first he says he assumed he hadn't shot him but he had to push him off of him. does that make sense? i guess when he said you got me he kind of fell into him when he hadn't been shot. and, again, this is just in written form some of the stuff
you've already heard. just trying to remind you of some important stuff. you've also got and i'm not going to play it for you, you've got a clubhouse video that's very short. there's clips of it. by coincidence, it appears there's a vehicle going and you might even see a person. not that you see a full figure, that's just impressions or shadows but you definitely see a car. around the area, where? where the mailboxes are. by coincidence, what rachel jeantel told you all in terms of where the victim was describing he was. under that shaded part when it was raining, the mailbox. they describe the defendant looking at him. he kept yelling that is -- he claims the victim kept yelling, of course, nobody else heard this, but he told the police it
happened. did mr. good say anything about when he came out that he heard the victim say or the person -- person say -- -- the defendant's interview on the 29thth. >> did you strategically -- >> no, i just tried to hear what he said. he seemed nervous. i didn't thing he was going to beat you up or nothing. is that what you mean? >> i thought because the four of you kind of got in between --
>> just natural. but he kept you -- >> yeah -- >> just a minor point. what was the relevance of that? and what did i think was important for you to hear again? he wants to know what she was doing to safeguard something around. he's trying to be impressive, impress thinks police officers, like i'm one of you all. i can understand police officers and all that stuff. i have criminal justice stuff, you know how it is. you just come into contact with people and, you know, sometimes somebody attacks you, all that. he's talking that police jargon. he's curious how you do that. the other thing that's important, and you see it --
also from the videos you've seen, you saw how he was okay he's a little overweight, but he's pretty fit there, when you see him walking around. you might contrast that in terms of -- he was pretty fit then. so compare to how he appeared then, and most importantly compare how trayvon martin appeared, the m.e. photographs. >> did you nicely ask this person what he was doing out there? >> no, sir. >> you didn't bother to ask, if this guy is suspicious, what he was doing? no, sir, he's a criminal. you don't have to ask criminals. you know what they're doing. >> so you had two opportunities
to advise your -- in his mind's eye, which i can't get into, because he says he perceived you as a threat, okay. he perceives you as a threat, he has every right to defend himself, especially if you have a -- cell phone. >> very insightful question by the investigator. you're reaching for your pocket? like gun? >> did you ever say on the neighborhood watch? >> no. did it not okur to you? >> no. >> because you did have a problem. that's why you were following him, right? >> i was -- >> were you scared to tell him that you had a concern? were you afraid to tell him that? >> yes, ma'am. >> i'm not trying to put you on the spot. >> now, again, when they're pressing him on that issue, he's
backing away consistent with what he said earlier, that he's scared of him, scared of this person he's following all over in the darkness out there, but of course he doesn't have his gun out, nor does he feel a need to, but he's scared of him, okay, can't have it both ways. >> it's not like he doesn't know safety features. >> yes, sir. >> okay. >> who was -- he was bouncing on your chest? -- to go ahead and pull out your -- >> when he -- he was on me, but he had pressure on my nose and my mouth, suffocating me. when he -- >> i guess fear. i didn't quantity to confront him. >> you were afraid of him? >> yes, ma'am. >> and did you say --
>> yes. >> did you get out of car after? >> i didn't run after him, no. i walked to find the street sign, and he had already cut out between the houses, so i knee that if i walked straight through that little sidewalk, i knew that that was my street, but the -- >> again, he does not want to admit at all that he is following him or chasing him or profiling him. >> they always get away. >> that statement. >> they asked him, what does he mean by -- victimize the neighborhood.
>> i don't know why -- i don't know. >> this is where he tells investigator sarina, it doesn't sound like my voice, in terms of the yells. again, we've covered this already, but i wanted to read it, too. talking about the video camera, in terms of whether they were working or not. then when they asked him, how do you not no the street name? oh, i've got a bad memory. always an excuse, or they catch him in a lie and he explains it away. then when they confront him. hold on, this guy is right next to you? well, he didn't circle the
entire car. he tries to explain why this individual, trayvon martin, is suspicious to him. and he's determined to get that address. it's not to go follow the guy, it's not to follow the victim, it's just to get the address. again, is it he just wants to catch the bad guy? the guy -- the punk that gets away? is that why he's saying that? then we move on to july 20th, 2013. mr. hannity, he's giving him home runs, easy questions.
can't even get that right, because he tells one lie after another. listen. >> before we get to the issue of where you said action on the 911 call that he's running, he said that to the dispatch, is there any chance in retrospect, as you look back on that night, what happened, trying to maybe get into the mind-set, because we have also learned that trayvon was speaking to his girlfriend supposedly at the time, that maybe he was afraid of you, didn't know who you were? >> no. >> why do you think that he was running then? >> maybe i said running, but he was more -- >> you said he was running. >> yes, he was like skipping, going away quickly, but he wasn't running out of fear. >> you could tell the difference? >> he wasn't running. >> he wasn't actually running. >> no, sir. >> hannity just asked him a simple question -- well, perhaps
trayvon martin was scared of you, since you're following him, and he's running away from you, so he realizes that at that time, the defendant realizes, that doesn't look good, because that means i'm chasing him. that means trayvon martin is the one that's scared. that doesn't look good for me. what does he say? oh, he as skipping away, la, la, la. that's what he's claiming. >> in the buckle of the seat belt, and -- dispap asks you at that point, this became a key moment, and the dispatch ever asked you, have you following him? you said yes. explain that. >> i meant i was going in the same direction as him, to keep an eye on hind, so i could tell
police where he was going. i didn't mean that i was pursuing him. >> i'm not following my daughter when she's on the in the street and i'm scared of what's going on happen. i'm just following her in the same direction. >> he had, and he couldn't hit my head on the concrete anymore, he started to try to suffocate me. i continued to push his hands off my mouth and nose, particularly because it was excruciating, having a broken nose and him putting his weight on me. that's the point in time when he started to telling me to shut up, shut up, shut up. >> why did he tell you to shut up? >> i don't know. >> where's all that blood on trayvon martin's hands?