tv ABC News Special The Vice Presidential Debate ABC October 4, 2016 6:00pm-8:01pm MST
coming up. have a gre round one is done. tonight, the men who would be just a heartbeat away. tim kaine, mike pence take the stage. just three minutes away. this is an abc news special. when it comes to fighting for their candidates, they don't pull any punches. mike pence. >> hillary clinton promises more of the same. more more obamacare. >> tim kaine. >> donald trump as come commander in chief scares me to death. >> now tonight, the gloves are off. live from longwood university, this is the vice presidential debate. now reporting, george stephanopoulos. >> good evening, and welcome to the next pivotal moment in this tumultuous race for president. there is the stage at longwood university, farmville, virginia,
will face off in their first and onto debate, giving all of you your best chance yet to take measure of those men and the candidates who chose them. it's been eight days now since that first clash between hillary clinton and donald trump, and a new battery of polls show a solid bounce for hillary clinton, her national lead is rising. the battleground statements moving her way. jon karl in the hall tonight. jon, clinton's momentum fueled by that debate. trump's reaction in the days that followed. and the revelation that trump may have paid no federal income tax for nearly two decades. that really puts pressure on mike pence tonight to stop the bleeding. >> it sure does, george. these are the two most overshadowed vice presidential candidates of the modern era. when they step out on that stage, they will be meeting each other for the very first time. but the pressure is on mike pence. he is the one that needs to change the dynamic. the momentum is with hillary clinton, trump is down, hurt by that last debate. hurt by a week's worth of
to change that dynamic by getting his campaign back on track. >> cecilia vega covers the clinton campaign for us, also in the hall. we expect a pretty aggressive tim kaine tonight. >> exactly, george. and we expect him to come out swinging, taking on mike pence by taking on donald trump from those 3:00 a.m. tweets to his comments about women, but perhaps his most important job tonight, to not mess up. this waive of momentum that hillary clinton has been riding since that last debate. >> as we see the candidates coming into the hall earlier this in with his mom. mike pence there with his wife. jon karl said it, david muir. these candidates have been overshadowed by the people at the top of the ticket. that have another job tonight, introduce themselves to the country. >> our new poll shows more than 40% of americans can't even name the vice presidential candidates. 41% couldn't name mike pence. 46% couldn't name tim kaine. they are meeting each other, as jon points out, tonight. they are character witnesses for
the big question for mike pence is, can he prosecute the case against hillary clinton? >> one of the questions, matthew dowd, are they the future of their parties? i think this is really a pause button in the race, but this is an audition for them, if they're going to be national players in their own party, regardless of the result. and they know that pressure's on them, as well as the pressure on the two candidates above them on the ballot. >> a lot of national players, the chairman of the republican party, the wives there, greeting each other. little graciousness before the debate begins. we're going to have 90 minutes ahead. the debate will be moderated by elaine quijano of cbs news. >> good evening, from longwood university in farmville, virginia, and welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2016, sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. i'm elaine quijano, anchor at cbsn and correspondent for cbs news. it's an honor to moderate this
and governor mike pence. both are long-time public servants who have also proud fathers of sons serving in the u.s. marines. the campaigns have agreed to the rules of this 90-minute debate. there will be nine different segments covering domestic and foreign policy issues. each segment will begin with a question to both candidates, who will each have two minutes to answer. then, i'll ask followup questions to facilitate a discussion between the candidates. by coin toss, it's been determined that senator kaine will be first to answer the opening question. we have an enthusiastic audience tonight. they've agreed to only express that enthusiasm once at the end of the debate, and right now, as we welcome governor mike pence
>> gentlemen, welcome. it truly is a privilege to be with both of you tonight. i'd like to start with the topic of presidential leadership. 28 years ago, tomorrow night, lloyd benson said, the vice presidential debate was not about the qualification for the vi if tragedy should occur, the vice president has to step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation, to take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world. what about your qualities, your skills and your temperament equip you to step into that role at a moment's notice? senator cakaine? >> elaine, thank you for being here tonight, and governor pence, welcome. it is so great to be back at longwood university in farmville, virginia. this is a very special place.
woman, barbara johns, led a walkout of her high school. she made history by protesting school segregation. she believed our nation was stronger together, and that walkout led to the brown versus board of education decision that moved us down the path toward equality. i am so proud to be running with another strong, history-making woman, hillary clinton, to be president of the united states. i'm proud, because her vision of stronger together, about economy that works for all, not just those at the top, being safe in the world, not only with the strong military, but also strong alliances to battle terrorism and climate change. and also, to build a community of respect, just like barbara johns tried to do 65 years ago. that's why i'm so proud to be her running mate. hillary told me why she asked me to be her running mate. she said the test of a clinton administration will not be the signing of a bill or the passage of a bill. it will be if we can make
if we can make a classroom better, learning environment, for school kids or teachers. whether we can make a safer -- it's going to be about results. she said to me, you've been a missionary and a civil rights lawyer, you've been a city councilman and mayor, a governor and a u.s. senator. i think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation so that we always keep in mind that the success of the administration is the difference we make in people's lives. and that's what i bring to the ticket. that experience, having served at all levels of government. but my primary role is to be hillary clinton's strong supporter as she puts together the most historic administration possible. i relish that role. i'm so proud of her. i'll just say this. we trust hillary clinton, my wife and i, we trust her with the most important thing in our life. we have a son deployed overseas in the marine corps right now. we trust hillary clinton as president and commander in chief, but the thought of donald trump as commander in chief,
>> governor pence? >> well, first off, thank you, elaine, and thank you, to the university for their wonderful university. deeply humbling for me to be here. to be surrounded by my wonderful family and senator kaine, it's an honor to be here with you, as well. and i just -- i also want to say -- i want to say thanks to everyone that is looking in tonight. who understands what an e enormously important time this is in the life of our nation. years, we've seen america's place in the world weakened. we've seen an economy stifled by more taxes, more regulation, a war on coal and a failing health care reform come to be known as obamacare. the american people know that we need to make a change. and so, i want to thank all of you for being with us tonight. i also want to thank donald trump. for making that call and inviting us to be apart of this ticket. i have to tell you, i'm a small town boy from a place not too different from farmville.
my backyard. my grandfather immigrated to this country when he was about my son's age. my mom and dad build everything that matters in a small town in southern indiana. they built a family and a good name and a business and they raised a family, and i dream some day of representing my hometown in washington, d.c., but i honestly, elaine, i never imagined, never imagined i'd have the opportunity to be governor of the state that i love, let alone be sitting at a table like this. in this kind of a so, to answer your question, i would say, i would hope that the responsibility ever fell to me in this role, that i would meet it with a way that i'm going to meet the responsibility, should i be elected vice president of the united states. and that's to bring a lifetime of experience. a lifetime growing up in a small town, a lifetime where i've served in the congress of the united states, where i've led a state that works in the great state of indiana.
from this, i -- i would hope and frankly, i would pray, to be able to meet that moment, with that lifetime of experience. >> senator kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised secretary cl secretary clinton's character, including her commitment to public service, yet 60% of voters don't think she's trustworthy. why do so many people distrust her? is it because they have questions about her e-mails and the clinton foundation? >> elaine, let me tell you why i trust hillary clinton. here's what people should look at as the servant. do they have a passion in their life that showed up before they were in public life, and have they held onto that passion throughout their life regardless of whether they were in office or not, succeeding or failing? hillary clinton has that passion, from the time as a kid in the suburbs of chicago, she has been focused on serving others, with a special focus on empowering families and kids. as a civil rights lawyer in the south, with the children's
senator, secretary of state, it's always been about putting others first. that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump always puts himself first. he built a business career in the words of one of his own campaign staffers, off the backs of the little guy, and as a candidate, he started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapists and criminals, and he has pursued the discredited and really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the states. it is so painful to suggest that we go back to think about these days where an african-american could not be a citizen of the united states, and i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven selfish me first tile of donald trump. >> governor pence, you have said that donald trump is thoughtful, compassionate and steady, yet 67% of voters feel he is a risky choice, and 65% feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president.
mr. trump is simply too erratic? >> well, let me say first and foremost that senator, you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. it really is remarkable. and at a time when literally, in the wake of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state, where she was the architect of the obama administration's foreign policy, we see portions of the world literally spinning out of control. the situation we're watching hour by hour in syria today is result of the failed foreign policy and the weak foreign policy that hillary clinton helped lead in this administration and create. the newly emboldened aggression of russia, whether it was in ukraine or -- >> you guys love russia. you both have said vladimir putin -- >> we'll get to russia in a molt. i want to get back to the question -- >> elaine, thank you. senator --
putin. >> we have that coming up here. >> senator, i must say -- >> why the disconnect? >> at a time of great challenge, in the life of this nation, where we've weakened america's place in the world, stifled america's economy, the campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been an avalanche of insults. look, to get to your question about trustworthiness. donald trump has built a business through hard times and through good times. he's brought an extraordinary he's employed tens of thousands of people in this country. >> and paid few taxes and lost a billion dollars a year. >> why the disconnect with your running mates? >> there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton, and that's because they're paying attention. the reality is, when she was secretary of state, senator, come on. she had a clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments. >> you are donald trump's
of -- >> i'm still on my time. >> isn't this a discussion? >> this is our open discussion. >> governor, you had an opportunity. >> let me finish my sentence if i can. >> the clinton foundation acc accepted from foreign donors while she was secretary of state. she had a private server -- >> i get to weigh in now. let me just say -- >> which i senat >> governor pence doesn't he's going to say it's everybody's fought. >> do you? >> let me tell you this. when hillary clinton became secretary of state, osama bin laden was alive. we had 175,000 troops deployed. do you know that iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and russia was expanding its stockpile? under secretary clinton's leadership, she was part of the national team, public safety team that went after and revived the hunt against bin laden and wiped him off the face of the earth.
reduce their chemical weapons stockpile. she worked a tough negotiation with nations around the world to e li eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons -- >> eliminate? >> absolutely, without firing a shot. and instead of 175,000 troops deployed, we have 15,000. these are very, very -- >> and iraq has been overrun by isis because hillary clinton -- >> if you want to put more american troops in iraq, you can propose that. >> renegotiate a status of forces agreement -- >> that is incorrect. >> i would like to move onto the economy. >> but i'd like to correct. >> and overrun -- >> president bush said we would leave iraq at the end of 2011. and elaine, iraq didn't want our troops to stay and they wouldn't give us the protection for our troops. and guess what? if a nation where our troops are serving does not want us to stay, we're not going to stay.
secretary of state. >> there are a lot of people in this country wondering about the economy. let's turn to the issue of the economy. according to the nonpartisan committee, neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. in fact, your plans would add even more to it. both of you were governors who balanced state budgets. are you concerned that adding more to the debt could be disastrous to the country? governor pence? >> i think the this past administration of which hillary clinton was apart, we've almost doubled the national debt is atrocious. i'm very proud of the fact that i come from a state that works. the state of indiana has balanced budgets. we cut taxes, we made record investments in education and in inf infrastructure. i finished my term with $2 million in the bank.
virginia. he left his state $2 billion in the hole. the state of indiana, we cut employment in half, unemployment doubled when he was governor. i think he's a very fitting running mate for hillary clinton, because in the wake of a season where american families are struggling in this economy, under the weight of higher taxes and obamacare and the war on coal and the stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this administration, hillary clinton and tim kaine want more of the same. it really is remarkable that they actually are advocating a trillion dollars in tax increases, which i get that, you tried to raise taxes here in virginia, were unsuccessful. a trillion dollars in tax increases. more regulation, more of the same of the war on coal and even former president bill chilinton calls obamacare a crazy plan. for all the world, hillary
a good start. donald trump and i have a plan to get this economy moving again. just the way that it worked in the 1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s. and that is by lowering taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms, ending the war on coal. it is hurting jobs and hurting this economy, even here in virginia. repealing obamacare lock, stock and barrel and repealing all of the executive orders that barack we can get america moving again. on top of that, the trade deals that will put the american worker first and you've got a prescription for real growth. and when you get the economy growing, elaine, that's when you can deal with the national debt. when we get back to 3.5% to 4% growth, then we're going to have the resources to meet our nation's needs at home and abroad and we're going to have the ability to bring down the national debt. >> senator kaine? >> elaine, on the economy, there's a fundamental choice for
do you want a your hired president in hillary clinton, or a you're fired president in donald trump? hillary and i have a plan that's on the table that's a you're hired plan. five components. first thing we do is, we invest in manufacturing, infrastructure and research in the clean energy jobs of tomorrow. second thing, we invest in our work force. from pre-k education to great teachers to debt-free college and tuition-free college for families ma $125,000 a year. we raise the minimum wage so you can't work full time and be under the poverty level and p paying women equal pay for equal work. we promote small business growth, to make it easier to start and grow small businesses. hillary and i grew up in small business families. my dad ran an iron working and welding stop is here tonight. and fifth, we have a tax plan that targets tax relief to middle class individuals and small businesses. and ask those at the very top
come out of recession to pay more. the trump plan is a different plan. it's a you're fired plan, and there's two key elements to it. first, donald trump said, wages are too high. and both donald trump and mike pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. mike pence, when he was in congress, voted against raising the minimum wage above $5.15. and he has been a one-man bull work against minimum wage increases in indiana. the second component of the plan is massive tax breaks for the very top. trillions of dollars of tax breaks for people just like donald trump. the problem with this, elaine, that's exactly what we did ten years ago, and it put the economy into the deepest recession, the deepest recession since the 1930s. independent analysts say the clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs. the trump plan would cost 3.5 million jobs. donald trump, why would he do this? because he tax plan helps him
and he gave his tax returns to the american public like he said he would, we would see just how much his economic plan is really a trump-first plan. >> on that point, governor pence, recently, "the new york times" released part of mr. trump's 1995 tax return and reported that he could have avoided paying federal income taxes for years. yesterday, mr. trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. does that seem fair to you? >> well, first, let m appreciated the you're hired, you're fired thing, senator, your running mate uses a lot of pre-done lines. what you all just heard out there is more taxes, in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government, and if you think that's all working, then, you look at the other side of the table. i mean, the truth of the matter
clinton and senator kaine want to continue, have run this economy a ditch -- >> 15 million new jobs? >> governor, my question was -- >> there are millions more people living in poverty today than the day barack obama with hillary clinton at his side -- >> and the poverty level, and the median income improved dramatically between 2014 and 2015. >> honestly, senator, you can roll out the numbers and the sunny side, but i got to tell you, people in scranton know different. people in know different. the answer to this economy is not more taxes. >> it's not the give away tax relief to the folks at the top. i'm interesting if he'll defend his running mate not paying taxes. >> the question is whether it seems fair to you that mr. trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. >> this is probably the difference between donald trump and hillary clinton and senator
senator kaine, and god bless you for it, career public servants, that's great. donald trump is a businessman. not a career politician. he actually built a business, those tax returns that came out publicly this week showed that he faced some pretty tough times 20 years ago. but like virtually every other business, including "the new york times" not too long ago, he used what's called net operating loss. we have a tax code, senator, that is designed to encourage - >> why won't he release his tax returns? >> we're answering the question about the business thing. >> i do want to come back on this. >> his tax return showed he went through a very difficult time but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. >> how do you know that? >> because he's created a business that's worth billions of dollars. >> how do you know that? >> and with regard to paying taxes, the whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years.
thousands of jobs and he's paid payroll. >> elaine, let me -- >> senator, i'm going to give you 30 seconds to respond and i have a question on social security for you. >> okay. donald trump started this campaign in 2014, he said, if i run for president, i will absolutely release my taxes. he's broken. >> and he will. >> he's broken his first promise. second, he stood on the -- >> he hasn't broken the promise. >> he stood on the stage last week, when he said, that makes me smart. our military. smart not to pay for veterans. smart not to pay for teachers. and owl all of us that do pay, guess we're stupid. >> do you take all the deduct deductions that you're entitled to? i do. >> governor pence had to give donald trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president. donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president and he's breaking
>> you get very little time here. 20 seconds. >> i'll be very respectful. look. donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what the law requires. >> he said he would release his tax returns. >> and he's going to. senator, he's going to release his tax returns when the audit is over. >> richard nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. >> they're going to raise your taxes. >> if you can't make the nixon standard. >> the people at home cannot understand either one of you if you >> all right, we're having fun out here. >> in 18 years, when the social security trust funds run out of money, you'll be 76. the committee for a responsible federal budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as $7,500 per year. what would your administration do to prevent this cut? >> first, we're going to protect social security, which is one of the greatest programs that the american government has ever
whole life, raising your kids, working, being a little league coach of a sunday schoolteacher and you would retire into poverty. social security has enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not be in poverty. we have to keep it solvent. we'll look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap upward in order to do that. here's what hillary and i will not do. and i want to make this very plain. we will never, ever engage in a risky scheme security. donald trump wrote a book and he said social security is a ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us. and when congressman pence was in congress, he was the chief cheer leader for the privatization of social security, even after president bush stopped pushing for it, congressman pence kept pushing for it. we're going to stand up against efforts to privatize social security and we'll look for ways to keep it solvent going
>> governor pence, an opportunity to respond. >> well, thanks, elaine. there we go again. okay? all -- >> go read the book. >> all donald trump and i have said, we're going to meet our obligations to seniors. >> go read the book. >> we said we're going to meet the obligations of medicare. that's what this campaign is about, senator. and this is the old scare tactic that they roll out. >> you have a voting record, governor. >> and i get all that. i just -- look. >> i -- >> t asked earlier. >> i can't believe you won't defend your own voting record. >> i have to go back to. you are running with hillary clinton, who wants to raise taxes by a trillion dollars, increase spending by $2 trillion and you say you're going to keep the promises of social security. donald trump and i are going to cut taxes, we're going to -- >> you're not going to cut taxes. you're going to raise taxes on the middle class. >> to meet the obligations. we stay on the path that your party has us on, we're going to
and we're going to face hard choices. >> gentlemen, i want to move on. >> you did ask us a question about debt, and the debt explosion on the trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the clinton side. >> let me move on. to law enforcement and race relations. law enforcement and race relations. after the dallas police shooting, police chief david brown said, quote, we're asking cops to do too much in this country. every societal failure, we put it off on the copto not muenough mental health funding. schools fail. let's give it to the cops. do we ask too much of police officers in this country? and how would you specifically address the chief's concerns? >> elaine, i think that's a very fair comment. i think we put a lot on police shoulders. i got a lot of experience on this. i was a city councilman and mayor in richmond. when i came in, we had one of the highest homicide rates in
we fought very, very hard with our police department and we reduced our rate nearly in half. when i was governor of virginia, we worked hard, too. we did something that we really wanted to do. for the first time ever, we cracked the top ten safest states, because we worked together. here's what i learned as a mayor and a governor. the way you make communities safer and the way you make police safer is through community policing. you build the bonds between the community and the police force, build bonds when people feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between the police and the communities they serve narrows. and when that gap narrows, it is safer for the communities and safer for the police. that model still works across our country, but there are some other models that don't work. an overly aggressive, militarized model. donald trump said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country. that would be a big mistake, because it polarizes the
we'll focus on community policing. we will focus on, and hillary clinton has rolled out a really comprehensive mental health reform package that she worked on with law enforcement professionals, and we will also fight the scourgele of gun violence in the united states. i'm a strong second amendment supporter. but i got a lot of scar tissue. there was a horrible shooting at virginia tech, and we learned that through that painful situation, that gaps in the background record should have been closed and could have prevented that crime. we're going to work to do things like close background record cheeks. a one of those killed at virginia tech was a 70-plus-year-old romanian holocaust survivor. he survived the holocaust. then he survived the souviet union takeover. he couldn't survive the scourge of gun violence.
amendment and do background checks and that will make police safer, too. >> governor pence? >> you know, my uncle was a cop, career cop. on the beat in downtown chicago. he was my hero when i was growing up. we'd go up to visit my dad's family in chicago, my three brothers and i would marvel at my uncle when he would come out in his uniform. police officers are the best of us. and men and women, african-american, asian, latino, hispanic, they put their lives on the line every single day. and let me say, you know, at the risk of agreeing with you, community policing is a great idea. it's worked in the hoosier state. and we fully support that. donald trump and i are going to make sure that law enforcement have the resources and the tools toll be able to really restore
communities in this nation. it's probably, probably why the 330,000 members of the fraternal order of police endorsed donald trump as the next president of the united states of america, because they see his commitment to them. they see his commitment to law and order. but they also -- they also hear the bad mouthing, the bad mouthing that comes from people that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police action shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism, and that really has got to stop. i mean, when an african-american police officer in charlotte named brentley vinson, all-star football player who went to liberty university here in the state came home, followed his dad into law enforcement, joined the force in charlotte, joined the force in charlotte in 2014, was involved in a police action shooting that claimed the life
tragedy. i mean, we -- we mourn with those who mourn, we grieve with those who grieve. and we're saddened at the loss of life, but hillary clinton actually referred to that moment as a moment of implicit bias in the police officer force, where she -- when she was asked if there was implicit bias in law enforcement, her only answer is that there's implicit bias in everyone in the united states. >> can i explain -- >> what we ought to do is, we ought moments of tragedy. we ought to assure the public we'll have a full and complete investigation, when there's a loss of life because of police action, but senator, please, you know, enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making accusation of implicit bias every time tragedy occurs. >> elaine, people shouldn't be afraid to bring up issues of bias in law enforcement.
up. >> if you are afraid, you'll never solve it. here's an example, we would agree, this is a heartbreaking example. the man that was killed in st. paul, he was a worker a valued worker in a local school, and he was killed for no apparent reason, in an incident that will be discussed and investigated. but when folks went and explored the situation, what they found is that fill land doe kas tee, they called dreadlocks in the school that worked, that he had been stopped by police 40 or 50 times before that fatal incident. and if you look at sentencing in this country, african-americans and latinos get sentenced for the same crimes at very different rates. >> we need criminal justice reform. indiana has passed criminal justice reform. >> i just want to say, those who -- >> that's not what we're talking about -- >> we would not talk about bias in the system, we'll never solve the problem --
>> when african-american police is involved, why would hillary clinton accuse that african-american police officer of implicit bias? >> i guess i can't believe you are defending the position that there is no bias and it's a -- >> governor pence, i have a question on that point. >> i did not make that statement. >> your fellow republican, senator tim scott, who is african-american, recently spoke on the senate floor. he said he was stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. >> a u.s. senator. >> he said, the frustration, the sadness and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you're being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself. what would you say to senator scott about his experiences? >> well, i have the deepest respect for senator scott and he's a close friend. and what i would say is that we -- we need to adopt criminal justice reform nationally. i signed criminal justice reform
we' indiana, i worked on the second chance act. we have got to do a better job recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that do reflect institution alibi yal b criminal justice. what donald trump and i are saying, let's not have the reflex of assuming the worst of men and women in law phone,me enforcement. we believe -- >> so, what would you say to senator scott, governor? >> law enforcement in this country is a force for good. they are the -- they truly are people that put their lives on the line every single day. but i would suggest to you, what we need to do is assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement. you just heard senator kaine reject stop and frisk. well, i would suggest to you that the families that live in our inner cities that are besieged by crime -- >> governor, the question was
what would you tell senator scott. >> i've heard senator scott make that plea, and, look -- criminal justice is about respecting the law and being respected by the law. i just want to talk about the tone that's set from the top. donald trump, during this campaign, has called mexicans rapists and criminals. he's called women, slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. i don't like saying that in front of my wife and my mother. he was unqualified to hear a case because his parents were mexican. he said john mccain wasn't a hero because he was captured. he perpetrated this outrageous lie that president obama is not a u.s. citizen. if you want to have a society where people are respected and respect laws, you can't have somebody at the top who demeans every group that he talks about.
governor pence will defend the insult-driven campaign that donald trump has run. >> all right, i want to turn to our next segment now, immigration. you're running mates have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes should be deported. what would you tell the millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes, governor pence? >> donald trump's laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. we've been talking it to death for 20 years. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to continue to policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, sanctuary cities, all of the things that are drivi driving -- that are driving wages down in this country, senator, and also, too often, with criminal aliens in the country, it's bringing heartbreak. donald trump has a plan. that he laid out in arizona.
it's probably why, for the first time in history, the union endorsed donald trump as the next president of the united states, because they know they need help. to enforce the laws of this country. and donald trump has laid out a priority to remove criminal aliens, remove people that have overstayed their visas, and once we have accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy, strengthen the rule of law in the country and make our communities safer once the criminal aliens are we'll deal with those that remain. but i have to tell you, i just -- i was listening to the avalanche of insulting coming out of senator kaine -- >> these were -- hold on a second. >> it's my time, senator. >> it is the governor's time. >> i apologize. >> thanks. i forgive you. he says ours is an insult-driven campaign. did you all just hear that? ours is an insult-driven campaign? to be honest with you, if donald trump had said all the things that you said he said in the way
wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. it's -- she said they werer redeemable. they were not america. it's extraordinary. and she laid one after another ism on millions of americans that believe that we can have a stronger america, who believe that we can get this economy moving again, who believe that we can end illegal immigration once and for all. so, senator, this insult-driven campaign, i mean, that's small potatoes compared to hillary clinton calling half of donald trump's supports a basket of deplorables. >> hillary clinton said something on the campaign trail and the very next day she said, you know what i shouldn't have said that. >> she said she -- >> governor this is senator kaine's two minutes. >> now we're even. look for donald trump
apologizing for kaucalling -- >> she a -- >> governor, it is his two minutes, please. >> did donald trump apologize for taking after somebody in a twitter war and making fun of her weight? did he apologize for saying african-american are living in hell? did he apologize for saying president obama was not even a citizenf the united states? you will look in vain to see donald trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. immigration. there's two plans on the table. hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform. donald trump believes in deportation nation. you have to pick your choice. hillary and i want a bipartisan reform that will put, keeping families together is the top goal. second, that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent. third, that will do more border control, and fourth, that will provide a path to citizenship for those that work hard, pay taxes, play by the rules and
checks. that's our proposal. donald trump proposes to deport 16 million people. 11 million who are here without documents and both donald trump and mike pence want to get rid of birthright citizenship. so, if you are born here, but your parents don't have documents, they want to eliminate that, that's another 4.5 million people. these guys and donald trump has said it, deportation force. they want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people. and i cannot -- >> i cannot believe that governor pence would sit here and depend his running mate's claim that we should create a deportation force so that they'll all be gone. >> senator, we have a deportation force, it's called immigrations and customs enforcement. and the union, for the first time in their history, endorsed donald trump -- >> so, you like the 16 million deportation? >> senator, that's nonsense. look. what you just heard is, they
amnesty -- >> our plan is like ronald reagan's plan from 1986. >> they call it comprehensive immigration reform on capitol hill. we know the routine. it's amnesty. and you heard one of the last thing he mentioned was border security. that's how washington always plays it. >> no. >> so, governor -- >> governor, mr. trump has said -- >> a nation without borders is not a nation. donald trump is committed to restoring the borders of this nation. >> so, governor, how would these millions of immigrants leave? would they be forcibly removed? >> well, i think donald trump laid out a series of priorities that doesn't end with border security. it guns with boarder security. after we secure the border, not only build a wall, but beneath the ground and in the air, we do internal enforcement. he said the focus has to be on criminal aliens. we just had a conversation about law enforcement. we just had a conversation about the violence that's besetting our cities, the reality is that
that has struck american families because people that came into this country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise and activity, and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them. donald trump has said, we're going to move those people out. people who have overstayed their visas, we're going to enforce the law of this country. we're going to strengthen immigrations and customs enforcement with more resources and more personnel to be able to do that. and donald trump has made it clear, oe those things, that we're going to reform the immigration system where people can come into this country. that's the order that you should do it, border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law and then, senator, i'll work with you when you go back to the senate, i promise you, we'll work with you to reform the immigration system. >> i look forward to working together in whatever capacities we serve in, but i just want to make it very, very clear that he's trying to fuzz up what
phoenix, he looked the audience in the eye and he said, no, we're building the wall and we're deporting everybody. he said, quote, they will all be gone. they will all be gone. and this is one of these ones where you can just go to the tape on it and see what donald trump has said. and to add to it, and to add to it, we are a nation of immigrants. mike pence and i both are descended from immigrant families. some things, you know, maybe weren't said to great about the irish when done well by absorbing immigrants and it's made our nation stronger. when donald trump says mexicans are rapists and criminals, mexican immigrants, when donald trump says about your judge, a hoosier judge, he said that he was unqualified, unqualified to hear a case because his parents were mexican -- i can't imagine how you can defend that. >> gentlemen, i'd like to shift now to the threat of terrorism. do you think the world today is a safer or more dangerous place
has the terrorist threat increased or decreased? senator kaine? >> the terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because bin laden is debt. it's decreased in some ways because an iranian nuclear weapons program has been stopped. the terrorist threat to united states troops has been decreased in some ways because there's not 175,000 in a dangerous part of the world. there's only 15,000. but there are other parts of the world that are challenging. let me tell you this. to beat terrorism, there's only one candite and it's hillary clinton. she was the senator from new york on 9/11. she was there at the world trade center when they were still searching for victims and surviv survivors. that's seared onto her. the need to beat terrorism. and she's got a plan to do it. she was part of the national security team that wiped out bin laden. here's her plan to defeat isil. first, we have to keep taking out their leaders. she was part of the team that got bin laden and she will lead the team that will get the head of isis.
networks. third, disrupt their ability to recruit on the internet, in their safe havens, but fourth, we also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. that's the hillary clinton plan. she's got the experience to do it. donald trump. donald trump can't start a twitter war with miss universe without shooting himself in the foot. donald trump doesn't have a plan. he said, i have a secret plan and then he said, i know more than all the generals about isil, and then he said, i'm going to call the generals to help me figure out a plan, and finally he said, i'm going to fire all the generals. he doesn't have a plan. but he does have dangerous plan. he trash talks the military. the military's a disaster, john mccain's no hero, the generals need all to be fired and i know more than them. he wants to tear up alliances. nato is obsolete and will only work israel if they pay big league. third, he loves dictators.
rushmore. vladimir putin, kim and lastly, donald trump believes that the world will be safer fl more nations have nuclear weapons. he said saudi arabia should get them, japan should get them, korea should get them. when he was confronted with this and told, wait a minute, terrorists could get those, proliferation could lead to nuclear war, here's what donald trump said, and i quote, go ahead, folks, enjoy i'd love to hear governor pence tell me what's so enjoyable, or comical, about nuclear war. >> governor pence? >> did you work on that one a long time, because that had a lot of really creative lines in it. >> well, i'm going to see if you can defend any of it. >> i can defend -- i can make very clear to the american people, after traveling millions of miles as our secretary of state, after being the architect of the foreign policy of this m administration, america is less safe today than it was the day
president of the united states. it's absolutely inarguable. we've weakened america's place in the world. it's been a combination of factors, but mostly it's been a lack of leadership. i will give you, and i was in washington, d.c. on 9/11, i saw the clouds of smoke rise from the pentagon. >> i was in virginia. >> i know you were. we lived through that day as a nation. and i want to give this president credit for bringing osama bin laden to justice. but the trust is, osama bin laden led al qaeda. our primary threat today is isis. because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement that would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in iraq and secure the hard-fought gains the american soldiers had won, by 2009, isis was able to be literally conjured up out of the desert and has overrun vast
had won in operation iraqi freedom. my heart breaks for the likes of lance corporate scott sebowski. he fell in fallujah in 2005. he fought hard through some of the most difficult days in operation iraqi freedom and he paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom and secure that nation. and that nation was secured in 2009. but because hillary clinton and barack obama failed to provide a status of forces agreement and leave sufficient troops in there, we are back at war. the president just ordered more troops on the ground. we are back at war in iraq. and scott, whose mom would come to memorial day events to see me, i told her, we will never forget your son. scott, the sacrifices the american soldiers maede were squandered in iraq because this administration made a vacuum.
deal? the deal that hillary clinton initiated? $150 billion -- >> stopping a nuclear weapon's program without firing a shot? >> you didn't stop the nuclear weapons program. >> yes, we did. even the israeli military says it stopped. >> you guaranteed that iran will some day become a nuclear power. there's no limitations once the period of time the treaty comes off. >> governor pence, mr. trump has proposed extreme vetting from parts of the kworld terrorism. but that does not address the orlando nightclub massacre and the recent bombings in new york and new jersey. those were homegrown, committed by u.s. citizens and legal residents. what specific tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks? >> well, i think it's -- i think it's a great question, elaine. but it really does begin with us reforming our immigration system and putting the interest, particularly the safety and security of the american people
for extreme vetting for people coming in to this country, so that we don't bring people into the united states who are hostile to our billion of righ freedoms. but also, donald trump and i are committed to suspending the syrian refugee program, and programs and immigration from areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to uncrease the syrian refug >> the question is about homegrown terror. >> but first, let's make sure we're putting the safety and security of the american people first, instead of hillary clinton expanding -- >> or instead of you violating the constitution by blocking people based on their national origin, rather than whether they're dangerous. >> that's absolutely false. >> that's what the seventh circuit decided. here's the difference, elaine. we have different views on refugee issues and on immigration. hillary and i want to do enforcement on, are people
are bad. and with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they're dangerous. donald trump said, keep them out if they're muslim. mike pence put a program in place to keep them out if they're from syria. and yesterday, a court with three republican judges struck down the pence plan and said it was discriminatory. we should focus upon danger. not upon discrimination. >> elaine, to your point, those judges said it was because there wasn't any evidence yet that is states. well, germany just arrested three syrian refugees that are connected to isis. >> they told you, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. >> if you are going to be critical of me on that, that's fair game. i will tell you, after two syrian refugees were involved in the attack in paris that is called paris' 9/11, as governor of the state of indiana, i have no higher priority than the
vice president of the united states, donald trump is president, we're going to put the safety of the american people first. >> can we just be clear. hillary and i will do immigration enforcement and vet refugees based on whether they're dangerous or not. we won't do it based on discriminating against you because of the religion you practice. that is completely anti-threat call to the jeffersonian values -- >> the director of the fbi said, we can't no for certain -- >> yes, we and when we don't know, we don't let them in. when we don't know who they are, we don't let them in. >> you have to e re r rr on of the american people. >> by trashing all syrians or trashing all muslims? >> senator kaine, let me ask you this, secretary clinton has talked about an intelligence surge. what would that look like and how would that help identify terrorists with no operational
terrorist organization? >> intelligence surge is two things, e lawlaine. it's dramatically increasing our intelligence capacities, by hiring great professionals, but we have some of the best intel right here in the united states, working for our private sector companies. increasing our own work force, but striking great partnerships with some of our cyber and intel experts in the private sector so that we can consistent with constitutional principles, gather more intelligence. really, really important. it also means creating stronger alliances. because, you bathgather intellie and you share it back and forth. that's how you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come from one country to the next. alliances are critical. that's why donald trump's claim that he wants to -- that nato is on heat a obsolete is so dangerous -- >> that's not his plan.
obsolete. if push aside your alliances, who you are going to share intelligence with? hillary clinton is a secretary of state who knows how to build alliances. she built the sanctions around the world that stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program, and that's what an intelligence surge means. better skill and capacity, and better alliances. >> i would like to turn now to the tragedy in syria. >> can i speak about this cyber security surge? >> you can have 30 seconds, governor, quickly, please. >> i -- well, first, donald trump just spoke about this issue this week. we have got to bring together the best resources this country to understand that cyber warfare is the new warfare of the enemies we face in this country. and i look forward, if i'm privileged to be in this role of working with you in the senate to make sure we resource that effort. >> we will work together in whatever roles we may. >> i will also tell you that it's important in this moment to remember that hillary clinton
that had classified information on it -- >> governor, your 30 seconds is up. >> e-mails from the president of the united states of america were on there. her private server was subject -- >> governor, i would like to ask you about syria. you have now had a minute. >> a full investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor would take any additional step. you don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of this, we have a justice system that does that, and director did an investigation and concluded -- >> we are moving on now. 250,000 -- >> if your son or my son -- >> 100,000 of them children -- governor -- governor -- gentlemen, please. >> the fbi did an investigation, and they concluded there was no reasonable prosecutor that would take it. >> senator kaine, governor pence. please. i want to turn to syria.
siege does the u.s. have a responsibility to protect civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? governor pence? >> the united states of america needs to begin to exercise strong leadership to protect the vulnerab vulnerable citizens in aleppo. secretary clinton was focused on the russian reset. after the russian reset, the russians invaded ukraine took crimea. they are now deck stating terms to the united states, now all the united states of america, the greatest nation on earth, just withdraws from talks about
putin puts a missile defense system in syria why he marshals the forces and begins -- look, we have to lean into this with strong, broad shouldered american leadership. it begins by rebuilding our military. the russians and the chinese have been making enormous investments in the military. we have the lowest number of troops since the end of the second world war. we have got to work with the congress and donald trump will to rebuild our project american strength in the world. but about aleppo, and about syria, i truly do believe that what america ought to do right now is establish safe zones so that families and vulnerable families with churn cildren can out of those areas, work right now to make that happen. and secondly, i just have to tell you that the provocations by russia need to be met with
involved and continue, i should say, to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in aleppo, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the assad regime, to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in aleppo. there's a broad range of other things that we ought to do, as well. we ought to deploy a missile defense shield to the czech republic and hillary clinton and barack obama pulled back on, not wanting to offend the russians. we just have to have american strength on 2009. when donald trump becomes president of the united states, the russians and other countries in the world will know they are dealing with a strong american president. >> hillary and i also agree that the establishment of humanitarian zone in northern syria with the provision of international human aid consistent with u.n. security council resolution that was passed in february 2014 would be a very, very good idea.
stand up to russia in a way this ticket does not. donald trump, again and again, has praised vladimir putin and it is clear that he has business dealings with those connected to putin. the trump campaign management team had to be fired a month or so ago because of those connections with pro-putin forces. governor pence made the odd claim, he said, inarguably, vladimir pew ton utin is a bett leader than president obama. he's run his economy into the ground. he prosecutes lgbt folks and journal u.s.s. if you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership, you have to go back to a fifth grade civics class. governor pence just said that donald trump will rebuild the military. no, he won't. donald trump is avoiding paying taxes. "the new york times" story and we need to get this, but the
didn't pay taxes for 18 years, starting in 1995. those years included the years of 9/11, so, get this. on 9/11, hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked. by the worst terrorist attack in the history of the united states. young men and women, young men and women signed up to serve in the military to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders, but donald trump was fighting a very it was a fight to avoid paying taxes so he wouldn't support troops. >> the question was about aleppo. >> this is important, elaine. when a guy running for president will not support the troops, not support veterans, not support teachers, that's really important. and i said about aleppo. we do agree, the notion is, we have to create a humanitarian zone in northern syria. it's very important. >> governor pence, you have
up a safe zone, specifically? how would you keep it safe? >> well, first and foremost, donald trump supports our troops. donald trump supports our veterans. >> he won't pay taxes. >> donald trump has paid all the taxes -- do you not take deductions? >> this is about syria. >> it is about our troops. >> i understand why you want to change the subject. i understand why you want to change the subject. and let me be very clear on this russian thing. >> do you think smart to not pay taxes? >> we'll have time to get to russia. >> what we're dealing with is, there's an old proverb that says the russian bear never dies, it just hibernates. and the truth of the matter is, the weak foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama has awakened and aggression in russia that first appeared a few years ago with their move in georgia, now they are moving into the wider middle east. and all the while, all we do is
having talks anymore. to answer your question, we just need american strength. we need to -- we need to marshal the resources of our allies in the region and in the immediate, we need to act and act now to get people out of harm's way. >> and exactly how would the safe zones work? how would they remain safe? >> the safe zones would have to be, as the senator said, there's already a framework for this, it's been recognized by the international community. the united states of america needs to be prepared to work with our allies in the regio and to protect people in those areas, including with a no fly zone. look, this is very tough stuff. i served on the foreign affairs committee for a decade. i traveled in and out of that region for ten years. i saw what the american soldier won in operation iraqi freedom and to see the weak leadership that hillary clinton was the architect of in the obama
>> let me talk about what governor pence doesn't want to acknowledge. he doesn't want to acknowledge that we stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program. he doesn't want to acknowledge that hillary was part of the team that got bin laden. >> i just did. >> it's a good thing, not a bad thing, that we're down from 175,000 troops deployed overseas to 15,000. let me tell you what would really make the middle east dangerous. donald trump's idea that more nations should get nuclear weapons. saudi arabia, career care korea. ronald reagan said something interesting in the 1980s. he said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. and i think that's who governor pence's running mate is, exactly who president ronald reagan warned us about. >> that was even beneath you and hillary clinton, that's pretty low. >> do you think we should have more nuclear weapons in the world will make us safer?
>> that's what donald trump said. >> ronald reagan also said nuclear war should never be fought because it can never be won. and the united states of america needs to make investments in modernizing our -- >> can you defend donald trump's -- >> let me go back to this iran thing. i mean, he keeps saying that they prevented, that hillary clinton, who started the deal with the iranians, prevented iran from getting a nuclear weapon. >> that's what the israeli head saying right now, governor pence. >> well, that's not what israel thinks. >> you can go check it. >> you wouldn't necessarily know that, i know you boycotted prime minister -- >> no, i visited him in his office. >> you boycotted the speech. the point is, what this so-called iran deal did was essentially guarantee -- when i was in congress, i fought hard on a buy bipartisan basis with republican and democrat members
sanctions, literally in the history of the united states. >> and hillary used them to get a deal. >> we were bringing them to heel. the goal was that we would only left the sanctions if iran permanently renounced their nuclear ambitions. >> let me just mention one thing. >> let me finish the sentence. they have not renounced their nuclear ambitions. when the deals period runs out, there's no limitation on them obtaining weapons. >> very quickly, senator. >> $1.7 billion in a ransom payment -- >> we need to talk about senator? >> six times tonight i have said to governor pence, i can't imagine how you can defend your running mate's position on one issue after the next. and in all six cases, he's refused to defend -- >> don't put words in my mouth. >> and yet, he's asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend. and i just think that would be underlined. >> gentlemen, let's talk about -- >> i'm very happy to defend donald trump. >> i will give you the opportunity to do that.
nuclear weapons. try to defend that. >> he never said that, senator. >> he has absolutely said it. saudi arabia, south korea, japan. >> gentlemen, russia. vladimir putin invaded ukraine and has provided crucial military support to the assad are je regime. what steps would you take? >> let's start with not praising vladimir putin as a great leader. donald trump and mike pence have said he's a great leader. and -- >> no, we haven't. >> donald trump has business dealings with russia that he refuses to disclose. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia. she went toe to toe with russia to do the new start agreement, to reduce russia's nuclear stock pile. she's had the experience doing it. she went toe to toe with russia and we've done the same thing
economic sanctions on russia that we need to continue. donald trump, on the other hand, didn't know that russia had invaded crimea. he was on a tv show, he said, i'll guarantee you this, russia's not going into the ukraine. he had to be reminded they had gone in two years before. >> he knew that. >> hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia, to work out a deal on new start. she got them engaged in a meaningful way to cap iran's nuclear weapons she stood up to them on issues such as syria and their invasion of georgia. you've got to have the ability to do that and hillary does. on the other hand, in donald trump, you have somebody that praises vladimir putin all the time. america should really wonder about a president trump, who had a campaign manager with ties to putin, pro-putin elements in the ukraine who had to be fired for that reason. they should wonder, when donald
be america's bottom line or donald trump's bottom line? now, this could be volumesolved donald trump would release his tax returns as he told the american public that he would do. i know he's laughing at this -- >> what does it have to do with russia? >> every president since richard nixon has done it and donald trump said i'm doing business with russia. the only way the american public will see if he has conflict -- >> he hasn't said that. >> he has, actually. >> well, thanks. just trying to keep up with the insult-driven campaign on the other side of the table. >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. and i know you can't defend him. >> senator, this is the governor's two minutes. >> i'm happy to defend him. >> you're not. >> i'm happy to defend him. most of what you said is completely false. and the american people know that. >> i'll run through the list of things where you didn't defend him. >> senator, this is governor pence's two minutes. >> look, this is the alternative
versus reality. hillary clinton said her number one priority was a reset with russia. that reset resulted in the invasion of ukraine. after they'd infiltrated with what are called little green men, russian soldiers rushing up lie ukrainian dissidents and then they moved all the way into the crimea. donald trump knew that happened, he said it wasn't going to happen ain you have in the rise of aggressive russia, which has increased its influence in iran, that's now, because of this deal, is on a pathway in the future, to obtain a nuclear -- the leading state sponsor of terror in the world in iran, now has a closer working relationship with russia because of hillary clinton and barack obama's foreign policy. and $150 billion and sanctions being lifted.
really is extraordinary. syria is imploding. you just asked a very thoughtful question about the disaster in aleppo. isis is headquartered in raqqah. isis from raqqah has overrun vast areas that at great sacrifice, the american soldier won in operation iraqi freedom. yet, senator kaine still sits here, loyal soldier, i get all that, in saying that the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama somehow made the world more i mean, it really is astonishing. >> we wiped out the leader of al qaeda. >> we delivered $400 million in cash as a ransom payment for americans held by the radical -- >> governor, just today, mr. trump said, quote, putin has no respect for hillary clinton and no respect for obama. why do you think he'll respect a trump/pence administration? >> strength.
>> business deals. >> that's nonsense. donald trump -- >> donald trump's son says that the trump organization -- >> please, senator, i'll give you a chance. >> we're going to rebuild our military. and let me, this whole putin thing -- look. america is stronger than russia. our economy is 16 times larger than the russian economy. america's political system is superior to the crony corrupt when donald trump and i observe that, as i've said, in syria, in iran, in ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. that's not an endorsement of vladimir putin. that's an indictment of the weak leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama. >> well, this is one where you
governor pence said, inarguably, vladimir putin is a -- >> that is absolutely inaccurate. >> and i just think -- >> i said, he's been stronger on the world stage. >> no, you said leader. >> i did not. >> and, i'll just say this, governor. if you mistake leadership for dictatorship and you can't tell the difference, a country that's running its economy into the ground -- >> this is the grade school thing again? >> if you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't be commander in chief. and have all these business dealings with russia, those could be disclosed with tax returns, but they refuse to do them. americans need to worry about whether donald trump will be watching out for america's bottom line or his own bottom line. >> senator kaine, what went wrong with the russia reset? >> vladimir putin. vladimir pew ton utin is a dict. >> what would you do differently? >> he's a dictator. he's not a leader. anybody that thinks otherwise
they don't know putin. hillary clinton knows exactly who this guy is. john mccain said, i look in his eyes and i see kgb and hillary has kind of that same feeling. how do you deal with him? we do have to deal with russia in a lot of different ways. there are areas where we can cooperate. so, it was hillary clinton who worked with russia on the new start treaty to reduce their nuclear weapons stock pile. it was hillary clinton that worked with russia to get them engaged in a community of nations, to stop the iranian firing a shot. she's not going around praising vladimir putin as a great guy. but she knows how to sit down at a table and negotiate tough deals. this is a very challenging part of the world, and we ought to have a commander in chief who is prepared and done it rather than somebody who goes around praising haveputin. >> i would like to ask about north korea, iran and the threat of nuclear weapons. north korea conducted its fifth
take to prevent north korea from developing a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states? governor pence? >> well, first, we need to -- we need to make a commitment to rebuild our military, including modernizing our nuclear forces. and we also need -- we also need an effective american diplomacy that will marshal the resources of nations in the asian-pacific rim to put pressure on north korea, on kim jong-un, to abandon his nuclear ambitions. it is the policy of the united states of america. the denuclearization of the korean peninsula. when donald trump is president of the united states, we're -- we're not going to have the kind of posture in the world that has russia invading crimea and ukraine, that has the chinese building new islands in the south china see, that has the
we're going to -- we're going to go back to the days of peace through strength. i have to tell you that all this talk about tax returns and i get it, you know, you want to keep bringing that up, must have -- >> he made the promise. >> but hillary clinton and her husband set up a private foundation called the clinton foundation. while she was secretary of st state, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign and foreign donors. now, y'all need to know all there, this is basic stuff. foreign donors and certainly foreign governments cannot participate in the american political process. they cannot make financial contributions. but the clintons figure out a way to create a foundation where foreign governments and foreign donors could donate millions of dollars and then we found thanks to the good work of the associated press that more than half of her private meetings
were given to major donors of the clinton foundation. when you talk about all these baseless rumors about russia and the rest, hillary clinton, you ask the truth worthy question at the very beginning, the -- >> governor, two minutes are up. >> they are looking at the paid to play politics that she operated with the clinton foundation. >> governor, please, your two minutes are up. >> and they are saying enough is enough. >> senator kaine -- >> i'm going to talk about the foundation and then i'll talk about north korea. on the foundation. i am glad to tal foundation. the clinton foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world. it provides aids drugs to about 11.5 million people. it helps americans deal with opioid overdeeoses. it gets higher rankings for its charity than the american red cross does. the clinton foundation does a lot of good work. hillary clinton as secretary of state took no action to benefit the foundation. the state department did an investigation, and they concluded that everything
of state was completely in the interest of the united states. so, the foundation does good work and hillary clinton as secretary of state acted in the interest of the united states. but let's compare this now with the trump organization and the trump foundation. the trump organization is an octopus-like organization with tentacles all over the world, whose conflict of interest could only be known if donald trump would release his tax returns. he's refused to do it. his sons have said that the organization has a lot of business dealings in russia. and remember the trump organization is not an nonprofit. it's putting money into donald trump's pockets, and into the pockets of his children, where as the clinton foundation is a nonprofit and no clinton family member draws any salary. >> the trump foundation is a nonprofit. >> in addition, donald trump has a foundation. the foundation was just fined for illegally contributing foundation dollars to a political campaign of a florida
contribution and then they tried to hide it by disguising it as somebody else and the person they donated to was somebody whose office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work and a secretary of state who acted in accord with american interests and somebody who is conflicted in doing work around the world and won't share with the american public what he's doing and what those conflicts are. >> governor, i will give you 30 seconds to respond, because i know you want to, but again, i would remind you both, this was about north korea. >> thank you, thank you. the trump foundation's a private family foundation. they give virtually every cent in the trump foundation to charitable causes. >> political contributions? >> less than ten cents on the dollar in the clinton -- >> $20,000 portrait of donald trump? >> less than ten cents on the dollar, the clinton foundation has gone -- >> 90%. >> it has been a platform for
honestly, senator, we would know a lot more about it if hillary clinton would just turn over the 33,000 e-mails that -- >> senator kahn, ine, if you ha intelligence that north korea was about to launch a missile, a nuclear-armed missile capable of reaching the united states, would you take preemptive action? >> look, a action. you have to. president has to do that. now, exactly what action? you would have to determine what your intelligence was, how certain you were of that intelligence, but you would have to take action. you asked the question about how do we deal with north korea, i'm on the foreign relations committee, we just did an extensive sanctions package against north korea, and interestingly enough, elaine, the u.n. followed and did virtually the same package.
security council to veto their package like that they are getting worried about north korea, too, they supported the package, though many of the sanctions are against chinese firms, chinese financial institutions. so, we are working together with china, and we need to china is another one of those relationships where it's competitive, it is also challenging, and in times like north korea, we have to be able to cooperate. hillary understands that very well. she went once famously to china and stood up at a human rights meeting, said, women's rights are human they didn't want her to say that, but she did. but she's worked on a lot of diplomatic and important diplomatic deals with china, and that's what it's going to take. the thing i would worry a little bit about is donald trump owes about $650 million to banks including the bank of china. i'm not sure he could stand up so tough to the people who are loaned him money. >> all right, i'd like to turn to our next segment now, and in this i'd like to focus on social
in your lives. can you discuss in detail a time when you struggled to balance your personal faith and a public policy position? senator kaine? >> yeah, that's an easy one for me, elaine. it's an easy one. i'm really fortunate, i grew up in a wonderful household with great irish catholic parents, my mom and dad are sitting right here. i was educated by rockhurst high school in kansas city, my 40th reunion is in ten days and i worked with missionaries in honduras, now nearly 35 years ago, and they were the heroes of my life. i try to practice my religion in a very devout way and follow the teachings of my church in my own personal life. but i don't believe in this nation of first amendment nation where we don't raise any religion over the other and we allow people to worship as they please, that the dock run thes of any one religion should be man dated for everyone. for me, the hardest struggle in my faith life was catholic
penalty and so am i. but i was governor of a state. and the state law said that there was a death penalty for crimes if the jury determined them to be heinous. and so, i had to grapple with that, when i was running for governor, i was attacked pretty strongly, because of my position on the death penalty. but i look the voters of virginia in the eye, i said, look, this is my religion, i'm not going to change my religious practice to get one vote, but i know how to take an oath and uphold the law and if you elect me, i will uphold and i was elected and i did. it was very, very difficult to allow executions to go forward, but in circumstances where i didn't feel like there was a case for clemency, i told virginia voters i would uphold the law and i did. that was a real struggle. but i think it is really, really important that those of us that have deep faith lives don't feel like we can just substitute our own views for everybody else in society regardless of their views. >> governor pence?
is at the very heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonder. family of faith, it was church on sunday morning and grace before dinner, but my christian faith became real for me when i made a personal decision for christ when i was a freshman in college. and i've tried to live that out however imperfectly every day of my life since, and with my wife at my side, we've followed a calling into public service, where we've tried to keep faith with values that we cherish. and with regard to when i struggle, i appreciate and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine's sincere faith, i truly do. >> that's shared. >> but for me, i would tell you that for me, the sanctity of life.
that ancient principle that, where god says, before you were formed in the womb, i knew you. so, for my first time in public life, i've sought to stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. state of indiana has sought to make sure that we expand alternatives in health care counseling for women, nonabortion alternatives. we're well on your way in indiana to becoming the most pro-adoption state in america. if you are going to be pro-life, you should be pro-adoption. what i can't understand is what hillary clinton and now senator kaine at her side, is to support a practice like partial birth abortion. to hold to the view, and i know senator kaine, you hold pro-life views personally, but the very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could still have their life taken from them
conscience about a party that supports that. or, i know you've historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion, but hillary clinton wants to repeal the long-standing provision in the law where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion. so, for me, my faith informs my lichlt life. i try to spend a little time on my knees every day. but it all for me begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth, the value of life. >> elaine, this is a fundamental question, a fundamental question. hillary and i are both people out of religious back her methodist experience was really formative. but we really think you should live fully and with enthusiasm the commands of your faith. but it is not the role of the public servant toll mandate that for everybody else. so, let's talk about abortion and choice. let's talk about that.
we support the constitutional right of american women to consult their own conscience, their own supportive partner, their own minister, but then make their own decision about pregnancy. that's something we trust american women to do that. and we don't think that women should be punished, as donald trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal roe versus wade. he said he wants to put it on the ash heap of history. and we have some young people in the audience that weren't even born when roe was decided. this is important. before roe versus wade, states could pass criminal laws to do just that, to punish women if they made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live your moral values, but the last thing, the very last thing that government should do is have laws that would punish women who
and that is the fundamental difference between a clinton/kaine ticket and a trump/pence ticket that wants to punish women that make that choice. >> that's really not. donald trump and i would never support legislation that -- >> when why did donald trump say that? why did he say that? >> well, look, it's -- he's not a polished politician like you and hillary clinton and so, you know -- >> well, i would admit that's not a polished thought. matthew, from the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks. when donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists and criminals, or john mccain's not a hero, he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you whip md out tpet mexican thing again. >> can you defend it? >> there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence --
against mexicans on that? >> and many of them are good people. you keep leaving that out of your quote, and if you want me to go there, i'll go there, but here's -- there is a choice here, and it is a choice on life. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump, who is standing for the right to life. it's a principle that senator kaine and i'm very gentle about this, because i really do respect you, it's a principle that you embrace, and i've appreciated the fact that you've supported the hyde amendment, but that's not hillary clinton's view. people need to understand, we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of life. more and more young people today are embracing life because we know we are -- we're better for it. we can, like mother teresa said at that famous national prayer breakfast, bring -- let's welcome the children into our world. there are so many families around the country who can't
improve the options so that families that can't have children can adopt -- >> governor, why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? we can encourage people to support life, of course we can, but why don't you trust women? why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? that's what we ought to be doing in public life. living our lives of faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, other, dbut on fundamental issus of morality, we should let women make their own decisions. >> because a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable. the aged, the infirmed, the disabled and the unborn. i believe it with all my heart and i couldn't be more proud to be stand wk a ping with a pro-l candidate in donald trump. >> i do have one question for you tonight. senator kaine, if your ticket
and reassure the people who voted against you? >> that's a really important one. that may be the $64,000 question, because it has been a divisive campaign, and, again, hillary's running a campaign about stronger together, and donald trump, and this is -- this is not directed at this man, except to the extend that he can't defend donald trump, donald trump has run a campaign that's been about one insult after the next. but we do have to bring the country together. so, here's what we'll do. hillary clinton was first lady, then senator for eight years and secretary of state. and i served in the senate. and i'm really amazed, elaine, as i talk to republican senators, how well they regard and respect hillary clinton. she was on the armed services committee, she was on other committ committees. she worked across the aisle when she was first lady to get the chip program passed to 8 million low income kids have health insurance in this country, including 150,000 in indiana. she worked across the aisle
responders who bravely went into the towers and into the pentagon. she worked to get benefits for national guard members including hoosiers and virginians in the national guard. she has a track record of working across the aisle to make things happen. and you know what, elaine, i have the same record. i was a governor of virginia with two republican houses. and in the senate, i have good working relationships across the aisle, because, yeah, i think it's fine to be a democrat or republican or independent, but work together, and hillary clinton has a track record of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just that when we work with the new congress in january. >> governor, how will you unify the country if you win? >> well, thank you, elaine, and thanks for a great discussion. >> absolutely. >> thank you, senator. this is a very challenging time in the life of our nation. weakened america's place in the world after the leadership of
on the world stage, has been followed by an economy that is strug struggli struggling. more taxes, more regulation, obamacare, the war on coal and the kind of trade deals that have put american workers in the backseat. i think the best way that we can bring people together is through change in washington, d.c. you know, i served in washington, d.c. for 12 years, in the congress of the united states. and i served with many repuic and women of good will. the potential is there to really change the direction of this country, but it's going to take leadership to do it. the american people want to see our nation standing tall on the world stage again. they want to see us supporting our military, rebuilding our military, commanding the respect of the world and they want to see the american economy off to the races again. they want to see an american comeback.
has been about building. it's been about -- it's going through hardship, just like a busine businessbern do businessperson does and finding a way through smarts and resilience to fight forward and when donald trump becomes president of the united states, we're going to have a stronger america. when you hear him say he wants to make america great again, when we do that, i truly do believe the american people are going to be standing taller. they're going to see that real change can happen after decades of just talking about it. and when that happens, the stand tall, stand together and we'll have the kind of unity that's been missing for way too long. >> all right, gentlemen, thank you so much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. my thanks to the candidates, the commission and to you for watching. please tune in this sunday for the second presidential debate at washington university in st. louis, and the final debate on october 19th at the university of nevada las vegas. from farmville, virginia, i'm
good night. >> and as we see the candidates shake hands right there, mike pence and tim kaine, after 90 minutes of spirited debate, shaking hands with the moderator, as well. covered a lot of ground there. and matthew dowd, mike pence had a line at the end of the debate where he said that donald trump is not a polished politician, but you saw on that stage on the, two polished politicians, two career politicians, senator and governor tim kaine, governor and member of the house mike pence who came in with quite different strategies. >> yeah, i mean, these were two experienced politicians who have been through debates before in their own races, so, they're very good at this, and knowing how to do this. it was very interesting to me with this, i thought tim kaine, his style wasn't as good as mike pence's, i thought mike pence did better on style and calmness, but i think tim kaine came with a strategy, which was, i'm going to try to undercut donald trump every step i have. mike pence actually deflected,
defended donald trump. this looked like, to me, a debate where tim kaine was in this race today, making the argument about why hillary clinton and it looked like mike pence was wanting to get out of this year's election to another election where he may be -- >> didn't seem to bother donald trump, david muir. we had something we never had before in this vice presidential debate. the two presidential candidates tweeting in real time all through the debate. donald trump being a cheerleader for mike pence. >> said, great opening statement, right out of the gate, george. tweeting almost immedialy hillary clinton throughout the debate, too. it is interesting, you know, you were saying matt that he deflected, he did defend donald trump on one key issue, the issue that's topped the news in the last week, the taxes. he said that donald trump did use the tax code the way it was supposed to and he used the tax code brilliantly. the same word we heard from donald trump in the last 24 hours. it sounds like what you heard from the surrogates. >> he was forced into that, cokie roberts, because tim kaine
and again. >> over and over. and brought up over and over and over again the insulting words that donald trump has used about all kinds of people. and that was really his goal, was to remind everybody that donald trump's temperament is a problem. >> and i want to play one of those exchanges, because one of the ones where mike pence said it wasn't true. let's watch one of the exchanges where tim kaine talks about donald trump's insults. >> just trying to keep up the insaumeuinsult-driven cam o the other side -- >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. >> i'm happy to defend him. >> you're not. >> most of what you said is completely false. >> so, byron pitts, you looked at the statements. why don't we go through them. >> well, george, donald trump did say, in 2015, that mexicans bring in drugs, they bring in crime, they're rapists.
rosie o'donnell a slob. donald trump did say in the first debate that blacks, that african-americans are living in hell. so, the facts are, we conclude that the comment by governor pence was false. >> let's bring in jon karl. did it feel like there was a winner in that hall, john? >> well, it felt like tim kaine came in here that was on the campaign that was behind and he was overeager to try to score points. kaine came in hot. he was interrupted so, i think that those are maybe even more than points on style, severely hurt tim kaine, mike pence on the other hand, was that relatively calm presence. it was almost as if kaine and pence switched roles from what we saw with hillary clinton and donald trump, where donald trump was constantly interrupting duri during his debate. but fact checkers will have a field day with mike pence.
the question of whether or not pence said that vladimir putin is a stronger leader than barack obama. you say pence deny saying that. pence said that. he said it just last month on september 8th in an interview with cnn. >> yeah, we will see how this plays in the days that follow. i want to go to our reporters who cover the campaigns right now, cecilia vega, let me start with you. what are you hearing from the clinton camp coming out of this debate? >> george, it's the first 30 minutes, the clinton camp was declaring victory. no outright declare rations just yet, but they are very happy with kaine's performance. one aide telling me right now that pence ran away from trump and was dishonest about the real record. he is taking some heat from even democrats and allies over the interrupti interruptions, but the kaine saids said, that's the running mate's job and he did what he set out to do tonight. >> back to you, matthew, it seems that in some ways tim
himself to do the job for the ticket. >> well, i think tim kaine lo looked at the polls and looked what's happened in the last week and understands that this race is fundamentally about hillary clinton and donald trump and he's going to be willing to do whatever it takes to make sure he brings her, helps bring her over the finish line. and he sacrificed a bit on style on that. i thought substantively, tim kaine's argument and discipline in this was much better than mike pence. mike pence's style, won on style, but tim kaine's prosecuting a case against donald trump, which mike pence did not want to respond to. >> right. and i want to bring this to tom llamas and come back to you, cokie. mike -- tim kaine said, six times, i have asked you to defend donald trump and six times you haven't done it. what is the trump camp saying about that? >> well, donald trump in his
pence won big and they all support mike pence. trump's campaign manager, very happy with the governor's performance. he was on the defensive all night, but when you talk about style and tone, governor mike pence did not let tim kaine get under his skin, something that didn't happen to donald trump, when hillary clinton was attacking donald trump, it clearly got to him. but gove governor mime pence hit cool. he pointed out the difference in kaine's position on abortion, and how that has his years in public service. i will say one thing. governor chris christie is advising donald trump for his next debate. trump may want to ask his running mate for some style points, as well. george? >> we'll see if coe ke cokie, tim kaine and mime pence, speaking to very, very different audiences. >> that's right. tim kaine was talking to his base. and talking to the people in the republican party that he needs
>> mike pence -- >> i'm sorry, mike pence, and the abortion question being the most obvious of those. but tim kaine was looking at that group of college educated white women, that's who -- that's who is going to determine this election, and over and over and over citing trump's statements, and then, at the end, doing that defense of roe versus wade, is really where he was going there. and i think that his entire performance was aimed at that voter group. >> and, in fact, if he was trying to poke a needle, mike pence, at the risk of not looking likable himself, he ultimately got there in the end, i would argue, when they were talking about abortion, and the comments that mr. trump as one point said women should be punished if abortion becomes illegal. that's when you heard mike pence say, well, listen, he's not a polished politician, and that's blowing up. >> a real big concession there. how does this change the race? we have a lot more analysis ahead.
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six times tonight, i have said to governor pence, i can't imagine how you can defend your running mate's position on one issue after the next, and in all six cases, he's refused to defend -- >> don't put words in my mouth. >> after that moment, mike pence did start to defend donald trump in the last 30 or 40 minutes of the debate. one of the big moments there of the debate, but matthew dowd, this whole idea of how much vice presidential debates matter. the candidates still out there on the stage, greeting their
i know mike pence is there, as well. historically they have not mattered. all that much. this is the only vice presidential debate coming into tonight, it was pretty clear that hillary clinton, as we talked about, had momentum. she was picking up in the national polls. picking up in the state polls. mike pence may not have had a circuit breaker, but he was able to at least make the points he set out to make, but does it change the race? >> well, i think this was a pause button on the race. and i think donald trump was on a downhill sl this may, like, oh, my gosh, the whole ticket is not a disaster, mike pence seems like he can hold this office and do it well and in tone and in style and in strength of leadership in this, but i think this was a draw. last week was very clear, hillary clinton won, and you knew she was going to gain momentum from this. i think it's a draw. i think tim kaine did what he needed to do. i think the hillary clinton partisans are going to be very happy. trump partisans are going to be very happy about mike pence and we move on to the next huge thing, which is the next big debate between hillary clinton,
tonight is a pause and we'll see what happens, develops tomorrow, but it's a draw. >> jon karl? >> i think it's a little more than that, for mike pence, frankly, you know, pence came in here, i think this was very reassuring to a lot of conservative republicans who are deeply uneasy about donald trump. they saw mike pence come out and in a way not getting distracted, not taking the bait, able to go out there and articulate conservative positions on economic issues, on national the language they understand. and i think that kaine coming in and being so aggressive and all those interruptions will be something that will work against him. again, i don't think this will have a major change to the dynamic of this race, but pence did accomplish something here. he accomplished something by being able to reassure conservatives, reassure republicans that there is a steady presence on that ticket. >> i take that point, take the
conservatives with the test at this point in the race, when you're behind, are you appealing to any new voters. >> that's exactly right. and the answer to that is probably not. look, the only way this would have really affected the race is if either one of them tanked, you know, did something disastrous, or if either one of them just shone so brilliantly that people who were on the fence or who have been nervous about going for the candidate they think they're going to go t for said, oh, well, i like him. that will make it easier for me to vote. and that didn't happen. >> david muir, one of the questions i had watching this is, as donald trump watches this and we know he watched all 90 minutes, what pointers -- what has he learned from this debate going into sunday? >> listen, i think you have to look at this, especially if you are in the trump campaign, saying this was a victory for mike pence, that he was able to turn almost all of his answers, particularly early on, back to hillary clinton, which was something that donald trump struggled with during that first debate, particularly when she started talking about his business affairs and his taxes,
instead of turning it back on hillary clinton. pence was able to do that tonight. you also saw, though, right in the beginning tim kaine knowing that honest and trust wore think was that key issue. he talked about it, in his opening statement how he trusts her to be commander in chief, his own son is in the military. we suspected he would bring that up tonight. right in the opening statement, but mike pence made that argument over and over again that they have weakened our country. hillary clinton and barack obama. >> and tim kaine right out of the box saying he was proud to be with hillary clinton. i noticed that in his first answer, just as mike pence was trying to reassure conservatives, you had tim kaine talking about the birther issue right out of the bat, talking to latinos right off the bat, talking to single women at the end, as well. trying to get to those voters who haven't been as enthusiastic for hillary clinton, though they think they should be for her. >> his message was, in part, minorities, women, if you weren't listening to the first debate, let me remind you what donald trump said about these things.
if nothing was said, pence didn't have a response, like, he just wanted it to go away. >> tom llamas, i know you've been talking to the campaign manager for donald trump? >> yeah, i just spoke to her. chef says she got off the phone with donald trump following the debate, that he was very, very excited about his running mate's performance. she told me, and she acknowledged this, it's unclear how much this will actually move the needle with voters. they were very happy be governor mike pence, they are acknowledging it's hard to gauge the impact of this one vice presidential ba i did ask her about a moment at the beginning of the debate when governor mike pence chose to address the camera, he looked right into it to talk to voters and she said, that was classic pence. he's somebody who spent so many years in the media, he knows what it takes to reach voters and that was completely his call, it was not something they scripted. >> and tom, you've been covering donald trump from the start. what do you think he takes away from this debate for his own performance on sunday? >> look, honestly, it's what i said when i was talking to you
governor mike pence, he says, he was on the defense the entire night. tim kaine was relentless on his attacks, constantly interrupted him, and pence never lost his cool. and remember in that third debate, donald trump lost his cool the moment hillary clinton brought up his father and that $14 million loan. she got under his skin and after that, it was just an avalanche of attacks that really bothered donald trump. >> cecilia vega, real quickly, what does the clinton camp have to say? hearing from the topan there? >> well, they are declaring victory. you can see the signs behind us, both sides trying to spin it. and george, this just in, they are already fund-raising off this. so, that tells you.
mike pence there with his wife, there is tim kaine, as well, making the most of moment in the sun, their first and only debate. two debates down, two to go, with 35 days left in this presidential campaign. they will go back out for the next 35 days. the other candidates, the top
candidates, the presidential candidates, back on the stage in five days, matthew dowd. we saw a difference in style tonight, having both candidates sit down. this debate coming up on sunday night, quite different. the first town meeting debate. >> it's a much different dynamic. you are going to be sitting on
interact with the audience. i think hillary clinton has a lot more experience with that. in this race, hullryillary's go slight lead. there's two big moments left, and the unknown, which we have no idea might happen in this, but right now, this is a step by step process with a hillary clinton lead. >> and a point we've also talked about before, people are already voting. by the end of the thursday debate, you could, election day, you would have 40% of the country having alrdy >> this is not november 8th. this is a 50-day election day and it's already going on. north carolina's already cast thousands. >> that is all for us right now. our coverage continues online at abcnews.com. "nightline" later. of course, the next presidential debate, as we said, just five days away. our own martha raddatz, one of the moderators.