tv ABC News Your Voice Your Vote 16 - The Presidential Debates ABC September 26, 2016 6:00pm-8:00pm MST
there it is. the stage is set. two podiums in place. hillary clinton, donald trump sti. anything can happen tonight. the white house at stake. >> she lacks the judgment and moral character to lead this country. >> a man who can be provoked by a tweet should not be anywhere near nuclear weapons. >> she suffers from very bad judgment. >> i am so looking forward to debating donald trump, i can't wait. >> the wait is over. hillary clinton, donald trump. it all starts right here, right now. live, from hofstra university, the first presidential debate. now reporting, george stephanopoulos. >> good evening and welcome to the most pivotal moment in the
race ever. so much on the line these next 90 minutes. so many of our fellow citizens tuning in. 100 million, maybe more. taking the measure of hillary clinton and donald trump. it promises to be the most watched political showdown in american history. as the candidates take that stage tonight, the latest national polls show them locked in a dead heat. trump winning big with men and white voters. clinton strong with women, latino and black voters. jon karl is in the hall tonight, and jon, political scientists debate how much these debates really matter. this race, so close right now, so unusual, it's hard to imagine it won't. >> george, not since john f. kennedy and richard nixon took the stage in the very first presidential debate has the anticipation been so high or the expected audience so large. these candidates will face off for the first time, the first time they have been face to
wedding, more than a decade ago. hillary clinton has been intensely preparing for weeks. i know that donald trump personally asked for videos of hillary clinton's previous debates. they both know, george, this could be the single most important moment of this presidential campaign. >> no question about it right now. and as we look at the candidates entering the hall earlier today, there they are coming through the tunnel. david muir, neither one of these candidates well liked. clinton has a massive trust problem. voters question if trump is fit to be commander in chief. >> you are right, george. they are there to debate one another, but they have a lot of work to do for themselves. hillary clinton has to address the trust issue. and donald trump has to display, demonstrate his fitness to be commander in chief. he'll have a lot more time for his answers than he did during the primary debates and the first time one-on-one. we should point out this number. newest abc news poll shows that 1 in 5 americans say they could change their minds after
voters with gary johnson and jill stein, not on the stage tonight. >> one-third of people under the age of 30 are going with the libertarian party or the green party, and those are people, millennials, who both of those candidates, clinton and trump, want. >> a lot of dignitaries in the hall tonight. we know that bill clinton met melania trump earlier this evening. gracious hand shake. they will both be watching that stage tonight. 90 minut going to cover three broad topics. america's direction, the economy and national security. the moderator, lester holt, of nbc news. >> good evening from hofstra university in hempstead, new york, i'm lester holt. anchor of nbc nightly news. i want to welcome you to the first presidential debate. the participants tonight are donald trump and hillary clinton. this debate is sponsored by the commission on presidential
organization. the commission drafted tonight's format, and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. the 90-minute debate is divided into six segments, each 15 minutes long. we'll explore three topic areas tonight, achieving prosperity, america's direction and securing america. at the start of each segment, i will ask the same leadoff question to both candidates and they will each have up to two minutes to respond. from that point, until the end of the segment, we'll have an open discussion. the questions are mine and have not been shared with the commission or the campaigns. the audience here in the room has agreed to remain silent so that we can focus on what the candidates are saying. i will invite you to applaud, however, at this moment, as we welcome the candidates, democratic candidate for president of the united states, hillary clinton, and republican nominee for president of the
>> good luck to you. >> good to see you. >> good luck to you. >> well, i don't expect us to cover all the issues of this campaign tonight, but i remind everyone, there are two more presidential debates scheduled. we are going to the issues that voters tell us are most important, and we're going to press for specifics. i'm honored to have this role, but this evening belongs to the candidates, and just as important to the american people. candidates, we look forward to hearing you articulate your policies and your positions, as well as your visions and your values. so, let's begin. we're calling this opening segment, achieving prosperity. and central to that is jobs. there are two economic realities
straight years of job growth and new census numbers show incomes have increased at a record rate after years of stagnation. however, income inequality remains significant and nearly half of americans are living paycheck to paycheck. beginning with you, secretary clinton, why are you a better choice than your opponent to create the kinds of jobs that will put more money into the pockets of american workers? >> well, thank you, lester, and thanks to hofstra for hosting us. election is really, what kind of country we want to be and what kind of future we'll build together. today is my granddaughter's second birthday, so, i think about this a lot. first, we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. that means we need new jobs, good jobs, with rising incomes. i want us to invest in you. i want us to invest in your future. that means jobs in inf
manufacturing. innovation and technology. clean renewable energy. and small business, because most of the new jobs will come from small business. we also have to make the economy fairer. that starts with raising the national minimum wage and also guarantee, finally, equal pay for women's work. i also want to see more companies do profit sharing. if you help create the profits, you should be able to share in them, not just the executives at the to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. i've heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that you're under. so, let's have paid family leave, earned sick days, let's be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college. how are we going to do it? we're going to do it by having the wealthy pair their fair share and close the corporate loopholes.
stage together, donald trump and i. donald, it's good to be with you. we're going to have a debate where we are talking about the important issues facing our country. you have to judge us, who can shoulder the immense awesome responsibilities of the presidency? who can put into action the plans that will make your life better? i hope that i will be able to earn your vote on november 8th. >> secretary clinton, thank you. mr. you. it's about putting money, more money into the pockets of american workers. you have up to two minutes. >> thank you, lester. our jobs are fleeing the country. they're going to mexico, they're going to many other countries. you look at what china is doing to our country in terms of making our product. they're devaluing their currency and there's nobody in our government to fight them and we have a very good fight and we have a winning fight because they're using our country as a
many other countries are doing the same thing. so, we're losing our good jobs. so many of them. when you look at what's happening in mexico, a friend of mine who builds plants said it's the eighth wonder of the world. some of the biggest plants anywhere in the world, some of the most sophisticated, some of the best plants. with the united states, as you said, not so much. so, ford is leaving. you see that their small car division, leaving. thousands of jobs leaving michigan, leaving oh they're all leaving. and we can't allow it to happen anymore. as far as child care is concerned, and so many other things, i think hillary and i agree on that. we probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts and what we're going to do, but perhaps we'll be talking about that later. but we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. we have to stop our companies from leaving the united states and with it, firing all of their
carrier air conditioning in indianapolis. they fired 1,400 people. they're going to mexico. so many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this. we cannot let it happen. under my plan, i'll be reducing taxes tremendously. from 35% to 15% for companies. small and big businesses. that's going to be a job creator like we haven't seen since ronald reagan. it's going to be thing to watch. companies will come. they will build, they will expand. new companies will start and i look very, very much forward to doing it. we have to renegotiate our trade deals and we have to stop these countries there stealing our companies and our job. >> secretary clinton, would you like to respond? >> well, i think that trade is an important issue, of course, we are 5% of the world's population, we have to trade with the other 95%. and we need to have smart, fair
tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. and the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickle down economics all over again. in fact, it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percents of the people in this country, that we've ever had. i call it trumped up trickle down, because that's exactly what it would be. that is not how we grow the economy. we just have a different view the economy. how we make investments that will actually produce jobs and rising incomes. i think we come at it from some what different perspectives. i understand that. donald was very fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit. he startled his business with $14 million borrowed from his father and he really believes that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we'll be and that everything will work out from there.
i have a different experience. my father was a small businessman, he worked really hard. he printed drapery fabrics on long tables where he would pull out those fabrics and he went down with a silkscreen and dumped the paint in and kept going. and so, what i believe is, the more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be off and the better we'll grow. that's the kind of economy i want us to see again. >> let me trump, if i can. you talked about creating 25 million jobs and you've promised to bring back millions of jobs for americans. how are you going to bring back the industries that have left this country for cheaper labor overseas? how specifically are you going to tell american manufactures that you have to come back? >> well, for one thing, and before we start on that, my father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and i built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars with some of
world, and i say that because that's the kind of thinking our country needs. our country is in deep trouble. we don't know what we're doing when it comes to devaluations and all the countries all over the world, especially china, they're the best, the best ever, at it. what they're doing to us is a very, very sad thing, so, we have to do that. we have to renegotiate our trade deals. and lester, they're taking our jobs. they are giving incentives. they are doing things that we don't do. let me give you the example of mexico. they have a v when we sell into mexico, there's a tax, when they sell it, automatic, 16%. when they sell into us, there's no tax. it's a defective agreement. it's been defective for a long time. many years, but the politicians haven't done anything about it. in all fairness to secretary clinton, yes, is that okay? good. i want you to be very happy. it's very important to me. but in all fairness to secretary
talking about this, it was really very recently, she's been doing this for 30 years. and why hasn't she made the agreements better? the nafta agreement is defective. just because of the tax and many other reasons, but just -- >> let me sbur rupt just a moment. >> secretary clinton and others should have been doing this for years, not right now, because the fact that we created a movement. they should have been doing this for years. what's happened to our jobs and our country and our economy, generally, it's -- we owe $20 trillion. we cannot do it any longer, lester. >> back to the question, though. how do you bring back, specifically, bring back jobs? american manufacturers, how do they bring the jobs back? >> well, don't let the jobs leave. the companies are leaving. i could name -- there are thousands of them, they're leaving. and they are leaving in bigger numbers than ever. what you do is, you say, fine. you want to go to mexico, good luck. we wish you a lot of luck. but if you think you're going to
your cars or your cookies or whatever you make, and bring them into our country without a tax, you're wrong. and once you say you're gouge to have to tax them, coming in and our politicians never do this, because they have special interests and the special interests want those companies to leave, because in many cases, they own the companies. so, what i'm saying is, we can stop them from leaving, we have to stop them from leaving. and that's a big, big factor. >> secretary clinton? >> well, let's stop for a second and remember where we were eight years ago. we had the worst financial crisis, the great recession, the worst since the 1930s. that was, in large part, because of tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy. failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of wall street and created a perfect storm. in fact, donald was one of the people who rooted for the
hope it does collapse, because then i can go in and buy some and make some money. well, it did collapse. >> that's called business, by the way. >> 9 million people -- 9 million people lost their jobs. 5 million people lost their homes and $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. now, we have come back from that abyss and it has not been easy. so, we're now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy, but the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place. independent experts have looked at what i've proposed and look at what donald's proposed, and basically, sathey've said this. that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over $5 trillion and would, in some instances, disadvantage middle class families compared to the wealthy were to go into effect,
and maybe have another recession. they've looked at my plans and they've said, okay, if we can do this, and i intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs. because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy. take clean energy. some country is going to be the clean energy super power of the 21st century. donald thinks that climate change is a hoax, perpetrated by the chinese. >> i did not that. >> i think -- >> i do not say that. >> i think it's important that we grip this and deal with it, both at home and abroad. here's what we can do. we can deploy half a billion more solar panels. we can have enough clean energy to power every home. we can build a new modern electric grid. that's a lot of jobs. that's a lot of new economic activity. so, i've tried to be very specific about what we can and should do and i am determined that we're going to get the
building on the progress we've made over the last eight years, but never going back to what got us in trouble in the first place. >> mr. trump? >> she talks about solar panels -- we invested in a solar company, our country, that was a disaster. they lost plenty of money in that one. now, look. i'm a great believer in all forms of energy. but we're putting a lot of people out of work, our energy policies are a disaster. our country is losing so much in terms of energy, in terms of paying off our debt. you can't do w to do with $20 trillion in debt. the obama administration, from the time they've come in, is over 230 years worth of debt and he's topped it. he's doubled it in the course of almost eight years, seven and a half years, to be semiexact. so, i will tell you this. we have to do a much better job at keeping our jobs. and we have to do a much better job at giving companies
companies, to expand, because they're not doing it. all you have to do is look at michigan and look at ohio and look at all of these places where so many of their jobs and their companies are just leaving. they're gone. and hillary, i just ask you this. you've been doing this for 30 years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? for 30 years, you've been doing it and now you are just starting to think of solutions. i will bring -- excuse i will bring back jobs. you can't bring back jobs. >> well, actually, i have thought about this quite a bit. >> for 30 years. >> and i have -- well, not quite that long. i think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s, i think a lot about what work and how we can make it work again. >> well, he approved nafta. >> a balanced budget -- >> the single worst trade deal. >> incomes went up for everybody. manufacturing jobs went up in the 1990s.
facts. in the senate, i had a number of trade deals that came to me and i held them to the same test. will they create jobs in america? will they raise incomes in america and are they good for our national security? some of them i voted for, the biggest one, a multinational one known as cafta, i voted against. and because i hold the same standards as i look at all of these trade deals, but let's not assume that trade is the only challenge we have in the economy. i think it is a part of it and i've said what i'm going to do, i'm going to have a special prosecutor, we're going to enforce the trade deals we have, and we're going to hold people accountable. when i was secretary of state, we actually increased american exports globally, 30%. we increased them to china 50%. so, i know how to really work to get new jobs and to get exports that help to create more new jobs. >> but you haven't done it in 30
>> well, i've been a senator, donald. and i have been a secretary of state and i have done it. >> your husband signed nafta, which was one of the worst things that ever happened. >> well, that's your opinion. that is your opinion. >> you go to new england, you go to ohio, pennsylvania, you go anywhere you want, secretary clinton, and you will see devastation where manufacture is down 30%, 40%, sometimes 50%. nafta is the worst trade deal. maybe ever signed anywhere. but certainly ever signed in this country, and now, you want to approve partnership. you were totally in favor of it, then you heard what i was saying, how bad it is, then you said, i can't win that debate. you know if you did win, you would approve that, and that will be almost as bad as nafta. >> well, that is just not accurate. i was against it once it was finally negotiated and the terms were laid out. i wrote about that in -- >> you called it the gold standard. >> well -- >> you called it the gold standard of trade deals.
you've ever seen. then, you heard what i said about it and then you were against it. >> well, donald, i know you live in your own reality, but that is not the facts. the facts are, i did say, i hoped it would be a good deal, but when it was negotiated, which i was not responsible for, i concluded it wasn't. >> so, is it president obama's fault? >> before you even announced. look, there are -- >> secretary, is it president obama's fault? >> there are different -- >> because he's pushing it. >> there about what's good for our country, and our leadership in the world. i think it's important to look at what we need to do to get the economy going again. new jobs with rising incomes, investments. not in more tax cuts that would add $5 trillion to the debt. >> but you have no plan. >> oh, i do. >> secretary, you have no plan. >> i have written a book about it, it's called "stronger together," you can pick it up tomorrow at the bookstore or at
>> we're going to move -- >> it's because i see this, we need to have strong growth, fair growth, sustained growth. we also have to look at how we help families balance the responsibilities at home and the responsibilities at business. so, we have a very robust set of plans and people have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs and yours would lose us 3.5 million jobs and -- >> you are going to app of the biggest tax cuts in history. you are going to approve one of the biggest tax increases in history. you are going to drive business out. your regulations are a disaster and you're going to increase regulations all over the place and, by the way, my tax cut is the biggest since ronald reagan. i'm very proud of it. it will create tremendous numbers of new jobs. but regulations -- you are going to regulate these businesses out of existence. when i go around, lester, i tell
that businesses and people like the most is the fact that i'm cutting regulation. you have regulations on top of regulations and new companies cannot form and old companies are going out of business and you want to increase the regulations and make them even worse. i'm going to cut regulations. i'm going to tax cuts, big league, and you are going to raise taxes big league, end of story. >> let me get you to pause right there, we're g >> lester, that can't be left to stand. >> take 30 seconds. >> i kind of assumed there would be a lot of these charges and claims and so -- >> facts. >> and so, we have taken the home page of my website, hillaryclinton.com, and we turned it into a fact checker, so, if you want to see in real time what the facts are, please go and take a look. because -- >> and take a look at mine, also. >> we would not add a penny to
add $5 trillion to the debt. what i have proposed would cut regulations and streamline them for small businesses. what i have proposed would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy because they have made all the gains in the economy and i think it's time that the wealthy and corporations paid their fair share to support this. >> you just opened the next segment. i need to -- >> you go to >> we have 15 minutes segment. >> she's going to raise taxes, 1.3 -- >> mr. trump -- >> rolook at her website -- it' no different than this. she's telling us how to fight isis. she tells you how to fight isis on her website. i don't think general douglas mcarthur would like that that much. >> at least i have a plan to fight isis. >> no, no, you're telling the enemy everything you want to do. >> no, we're not. >> you are telling the enemy everything you want to do.
isis your entire adult life. >> well, that's -- go to -- please, the fact checker. get to work. >> unpacking a lot here and we're still on the issue of achieving prosperity. and i want to talk about taxes. the fundamental difference between the two of you concerns the wealthy. secretary clinton, you're calling for a tax increase on the wealthiest americans. i would like you to further defend that, and mr. trump, you are calling for tax cuts for the wealthy, i would like you to defend that, and the next mr. trump. >> i'm really calling for major jobs, because the wealthy are going to create tremendous jobs. they're going to expand their companies. they are going to do a tremendous job. i'm getting rid of the carried interest provision, and if you look, it's really not a great thing for the wealthy, it's a great thing for the middle class. a great thing for companies to expand. they are going to put billions and billions of dollars into companies, and when they are going to bring $2.5 trillion back from overseas, where they can't bring the money back,
secretary clinton won't allow them to bring the money back because the taxes are so onerous. so, what they're doing is, they're leaving our country and believe it or not, leaving because taxes are too high and because some of them have lots of money outside of our country and instead of bringing it back and putting the money to work, because they can't work out a deal to, and everybody agrees it should be brought back. instead of that, they're leaving our country to get their money. money back into our country. because of bureaucratic red tape. because they can't get together. we have a president that can't sit them around a table and get them to apreview something. and here's the thing. republicans and democrats agree that this should be done. 2.5 trillion. i happen to think it's double that, probably $5 trillion that we can't bring into our country, lester, and with a little leadership, you'd get it in here very quickly and it could be put
lots of other things and it would be beautiful. but we have no leadership. and honestly, that starts with secretary clinton. >> all right, you have two minutes to defend tax increases on the wealthiest americans, secretary clinton. >> i have a feeling by the end of this evening i'm going to be blamed for everything that's ever happened. >> why not? >> why not. yeah. why not. you know, just -- just join the debate by saying more crazy things. now, let -- >> there's nothing not letting our companies bring their money back into -- >> this is secretary clinton's two minutes. >> let's start the clock again, lester. we've looked at your tax proposals. i don't see changes in the corp rate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you're referring to that would cause the repatriation, bringing back of money that's stranded overseas.
way that will actually work to our benefit. but when i look at what you have proposed, you have what is called now the trump loophole, because it would so advantage you and the business you do. you've proposed -- >> who gave it that name? >> this is secretary clinton's two minutes. >> and when you look at what you are proposing, it is trickle down. trickle down did not work. it got us into the mess we were in in 2008 and '09. slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn't worked. and a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that. and they are saying, hey. we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making to rebuild the middle class. i don't think top down works in america. i think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making college debt-free
their education, helping people refinance their debt from college at a lower rate, those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. broad-based inclusive growth is what we need in america. not more advantages for people at the very top. >> mr. trump -- >> typical politician. all talk, no action, sounds good, doesn't work, never going to happen, our country is suffering because people like secretary clinton have made such bad decisions in terms of our jobs and in terms of what's going on. now, look. we have the worst revival of an company since the great depression. and believe me, we're in a bubble right now. and the only thing that looks good is the stock market, but if you raise interest rates even a little bit, that's going to come crashing down. we are in a big, fat, ugly bubble and we better be awfully
political things. this janet yellin of the fed, the fed is doing political, by keeping the interest rates at this level, and believe me, the day obama goes off and he leaves and he goes out to the golf course for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise interest rates, you're going to see some very bad things happen. because the fed is not doing their job. the fed is being more political than secretary clinton. >> mr. trump, we're talking about the burden that americans have to pay. yet, you have tax returns, and the reason nominees have released their returns for decades is that voters will know if their potential president owes money to -- who he owes it to and any business conflicts. don't americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest? >> i don't mind releasing. i'm under a routine audit and it will be released and as soon as the audit is finished, it will be released. you will learn more about donald trump by going down to the federal elections, where i filed
financial state of sorts, the forms that they have, it shows income, in fact, the income, i just looked, today, the income is filed at $694 million for this past year. $694 million. if you would have told me i was going to make that 15, 20 years ago, i would have been very surprised. that's the kind of thinking our country needs. when you have a country that is being ripped off by every single country in the world, it's the country needs, because everybody, lester, we have a trade deficit with all of the countries that we do business with of almost $800 billion a year. you know what that is? that means, who is negotiating these trade deals? we have people that are political hacks negotiating our trade deals. >> the irs says the audit of your taxes -- you are perfectly free to release your taxes during an audit.
public's right to know outweigh your personal -- >> well, i told you. i will release them as soon as the audit. look, i've been under audit almost for 15 years. i know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. i say, do you get audited? i get audited almost every year. in a way, i should be complaining. i don't mind it. it's become a way of life, i getted all didded by the irs. other people don't. i will say this. we have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. i will against my lawyer's wishes, when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. as soon as she releases them, i will release -- i will release my tax returns and that's against my lawyers, they say, don't do it. i will tell you this. in fact, watching shows, reading the papers, almost every lawyer says, you don't release your returns until the audit is
do it. i would go against it -- >> so, it's negotiable? >> it's not negotiable. no, let her -- why did she delete 33,000 -- i'll let her ask that. but let me admonish the audience one more time. we did ask you to be silent. secretary clinton? >> well, i think you are just seen another example of bait and switch here. for 40 years, everyone running for president has released their tax returns. you can go and see nearly, i think, 39, 40 years of our tax it. we know the irs has made clear, there is no prohibition on releasing it when you are under audit. so, you have to ask yourself, why won't he release his tax returns? and i think there may be a couple of reasons. first, maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. second, maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. third, we don't know all of his business dealings, but we have
reporting that he owes about $650 million to wall street and foreign banks. or maybe he doesn't want the american people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes, because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. so -- >> that makes me smart. >> if he's zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. and i think, probably, he's not all that enthusiastic about having the rest of our country see what the real reasons are, because it must be something really important, even terrible that he's trying to hide. and the financial disclosure statement, they don't give you the tax rate. they don't give you all the details that tax returns would.
this is something that the american people deserve to see and i have no reason to believe that he's ever going to release his tax returns because there's something he's hiding. and we'll guess. we'll keep guessing at what it might be that he's hiding. but i think the question is, were he ever to get near the white house, what would be those conflicts? who does he owe money to? well -- he owes you the answers to that, and them. >> he also -- he also raised the issue of your e-mails, do you want to respond to that? >> i do. you know, i made a mistake using a private e-mail -- >> that's for sure. >> and if i had to do it over again, i would, obviously, do it differently. but i'm not going to make any excuses. it was a mistake. and i take responsibility for that. >> mr. trump? >> that was more than a mistake. that was done purposely. that was not a mistake. that was done purposely.
the fifth amendment, taking the fifth so they're not prosecuted, when you hav the man that set up the illegal server taking the fifth, i think it's disgraceful. and believe me, this country thinks it's -- really thinks it's disgraceful, also. as far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns. you learn a lot from financial disclosure. and you should go down and take a look at that. the other thing, i'm extreme underleveraged. the report that said 650, which, by the way, a lot of friends of mine that know my business said, boy, that's not a lot of money. it's not a lot of money relative to what i have. the buildings that were in question, they said in the same report, which was actually wasn't even a bad story, to be honest with you, but the buildings are worth $3.9 billion, the 650 isn't on that, but it's not 650, it's much less than that. but i could give you a list of banks. i would give you a list of
fine banks, i could do that very quickly. i'm very underleveraged. i have a great company. i have a tremendous income, and the reason i say that is not in a braggadocious way, it's because it's about time that this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. when we have $20 trillion in debt and our country's a mess, you know, it's one thick to have $20 trillion in debt and our roads are good and bridges are good and our airports -- our airports areik world country. you land at laguardia, you land at kennedy, you land at l.a.x., newark, you from china, you land, we become a third world country. so, the worst of all things has happened. we owe $20 trillion and we're a mess. we haven't even started. and we've spent $6 trillion in the middle east, according to a
it's six or five, but it looks like it's six. $6 trillion in the middle east, we could have rebuild our country twice. and it's really a shame. and it's politicians like secretary clinton that have caused this problem. our country has tremendous problems. we're a debtor nation. we're a serious debtor their, and we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new schools, new hospitals. and we don't have the money because it's been so many of your ideas. >> and maybe because you haven't paid any federal next tax for a lot of years. and the other thing i think is important -- >> it would be squandered, too, believe me. >> if your main claim to be president of the united states is your business, then i think we should talk about that. you know, your campaign manager said that you built a lot of businesses on the backs of little guys. and, indeed, i have met a lot of
you and your businesses, donald. i've met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers like my dad was, who you refuse to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do. we have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouses at one of your golf courses. it's a beautiful it immediately was put to use. and you wouldn't pay what the man needed to be paid, what he was charging. >> maybe he didn't do a good job and i was unsatisfied with his work. >> thousands of people that you have stiffed over the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has taken their labor, taken the goods that they produced and then refused to pay them?
certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. he provided a good middle class life for us, but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. and when we talk about your business, you've taken business bankruptcy six times. there are a lot of great business people that have never taken bankruptcy once. you call yourself the king of debt, you talk about lera you even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt of the united states. >> wrong. >> well, sometimes there's not a direct transfer of skills from business to government, but sometimes what happened in business would be really bald for government. >> let's let mr. trump respond. >> we need to be clear about that. >> look, it's all words. it's all sound bytes. i built an unbelievable company.
anywhere in the world, real estate assets anywhere in the world, beyond the united states, in europe, lots of different places. it's an unbelievable company. but on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there and when secretary clinton talks about people that didn't get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot, but taken advantage of the laws of the nation. now, if you want to change the laws, you've been there a long time, cha but i take advantage of the laws of the nation. because i'm running a company, my obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, for me companies and that's what i do. but what she doesn't say is that tens of thousands of people that are unbelievably happy and that love me. i'll give you an example. we're just opening up on pennsylvania avenue, right next to the white house, so, if i don't get there one way, i'm
avenue another. but we're opening the old post office. under budget, ahead of schedule, saved tremendous money. i'm a year ahead of schedule, and that's what this country should be doing. we build roads and they cause two and three and four times what they're supposed to cost. we buy products for our military and come at a cost that are so far above what they were supposed to be. because we don't have people that know what they're doing. when we look at the budget, the budget is bad to a large no idea as to what to do and how to buy. the trump international is way under budget and way ahead of schedule and we should be able to do that for our country. >> well, we're well behind schedule. i want to move to our next segment. we move into the next segment, talking about america's direction and let's start by talking about race. a share of americans who say race relations are bad in this country is the highest it's been in decades.
shootings of african-americans by police, as we've seen recently in charlotte and tulsa. race has been a big issue in this campaign, and one of you is going to have to bridge a very wide gap. how do you heal the divide? secretary clinton, you get two minutes on this. >> well, you're right. race remains a significant challenge in our country. unfortunately, race still determines too much. often determines where people live, education in their public schools they can get, and yes, it determines how they're treated in the criminal justice system. we've just seen those two tragic examples in both tulsa and charlotte. and we've got to do several things at the same time. we have to communities and the police. we have to work to make sure
best training, the best techniques, that they're well prepared to use force only when necessary. everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should respect the law. right now, that's not the case in a lot of our neighborhoods. so, i have, ever since the first day of my campaign, called for criminal justice reform. i've laid out a platform that i think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal justice system. but we also have to recognize, in addition to the challenges that we face with policing, there are so many good, brave police officers who equally want reform. so, we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that, as a mutual goal. and we've got to get guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.
cause of death of young african-american men, more than the next nine causes put together. so, we have to do two things, as i said. we have to restore trust, we have to work with the police, we have to make sure they respect the communities and the communities respect them, and we have to tackle the plague of gun violence, which is a big contributor to a lot of the problems that we're seeing today. >> mr. trump, you have two minutes. how do you heal the divide? >> first of all, secretary clinton doesn't want to use a and that's law and order. and we need law and order. if we don't have it, we're not going to have a country. and when i look at what's going on in charlotte, a city i love, a city where i have investments, when i look at what's going on throughout various parts of our country, i mean, i can keep naming them all day long, we need law and order in our country. and i just got today the, as you know, the endorsement of the
just came in. we have endorsements from, i think, almost every police group, very, i mean, a large percentage of them in the united states. we have a situation where we have -- our inner african-americans, hispanics, are living in hell because it's so dangerous. you walk down the street, you get shot. in chicago, they've had thousands of shootings, thousands, since january 1st. thousands of shootings. and i'm saying, where is this? is this a war-torn country? what are we doing? we have to stop the violence. we have to bring back law and order. in chicago, thousands of people have been killed, thousands, over the last number of years, in fact, almost 4,000 have been killed since barack obama became president. almost 4,000 people in chicago have been killed.
order. now, whether or not in a place like chicago you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, major giuliani is here, worked very well in new york, it brought the crime rate way down, but you take the gun away from criminals that shouldn't be having it. we have gangs roaming the street and in many cases, they're illegally here, illegal immigrants, and they have guns. and they shoot people. and we have to be very strong. and we have to be very vigilant. we have to be -- we have to know what we're right now, our police, in many cases, are afraid to do anyth anything. we have to protect our inner cities, because african-american communities are being decimated by crime. >> your two minutes is expired. i want to follow up. stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional in new york. because it largely singled out black and hispanic young men. >> no, you're wrong.
very, against police judge. it was taken away from her and our mayor, our new mayor, refused to go forward with the case. they would have won an appeal. if you look at it throughout the country, there are many places -- >> the argument is that it's a form of racial profiling. >> no, the argument is that we have to take the guns away from these people that have them and that are bad people that shouldn't have them. these are felons, these are people that are bad people that shouldn't be -- when you have 3,000 shootings in chicago from january 1st, when you people killed in chicago, by guns, from the beginning of the presidency of barack obama, his hometown, you have to have stop and frisk. you need more police. you need a better community, you know, relation, you don't have good community relations in chicago, it's terrible. i have property there, it's terrible what's going on in chicago. but when you look, and chicago is not the only -- you go to ferguson, you go to so many
agree with secretary clinton on this. you need better relationships between the communities and the police, because in some cases, it's not good. but you look at dallas, where the relationships were really studied, the relationships were really a beautiful thing, and then five police officers were killed one night very violently. so, there's some bad things going on. some really bad things. but we need -- lester, we need law and order. and inner cities, because the people that are most affected by what's happening are african-american and hispanic people and it's very unfair to them what our politicians are allowing to happen. >> secretary clinton? >> well, i've heard -- i've heard donald say this at his rallies, and it's really unfortunate that he paints such a dire, negative picture of
country. you know, the vibrancy of the black church, the black businesses that employ so many people, the opportunities that so many families have working to provide for their kids. there's a lot that we should be proud of and we should be supporting and lifting up. but we do also have to make sure we keep people safe. there are the right ways of doing it and then there are ways that are ineffective. stop and frisk was found to be unconstituti and in part because it was ineffective. it did not do what it needed to do. now, i believe in community policing and, in fact, violent crime is one-half of what it was in 1991, property crime is down 40%, we just don't want to see it creep back up. we've had 25 years of very good
consequences. too many young african-american and latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses, and it's just a fact that if you're a young african-american man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated. so, we've got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system. we cannot just say law and order. we have to say -- we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal justice system. deal with mandatory minimum sentences which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. we need to have more second chance programs. i'm glad that we're ending private prisons in the federal system, i want to see them ended in the state system. you shouldn't have a profit motivation to fill prison cells
so, there are some positive ways we can work on this. and i believe, strongly, that common sense gun safety measures would assist us. right now, and this is something donald has supported, along with the gun lobby, right now, we've got too many military-style weapons on the streets, in a lot of places, our police are outgunned. we need come prohencive background checks and we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who will do harm and we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone who is on the terrorist watch list from being able to buy a gun in our country. if you are too dangerous to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. so, there are things we can do, and we ought to do it in a bipartisan way. >> secretary clinton, you said, we have to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias.
implicitly biased against black people? >> i think it's a problem for everyone, not just police. i think, unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. and therefore, i think we need, all of us, to be asking hard questions about, you know, why am i feeling this way? but when it comes to policing, since it can have, literally, fatal consequences, i have said in my first budget, we would money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias, by retraining a lot of our police officers. i met with a group of very distinguished, experienced police chiefs a few weeks ago. they admit it's an issue. they've got a lot of concerns. mental health is one of the biggest concerns, because police are having to handle a lot of really difficult mental health problems on the street. they want support. they want more training. they want more assistance.
government could be in a position where we would offer and provide that. >> i would like to respond. >> please. >> first of all, i agree and a lot of people even within my own party want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and no fly lists, i agree with you. when a person is on a watch list or a no fly list, and i he the endorsement of the nra, which i'm very proud of, these are very, very good people and they are protecting the second amendment, but i think we have to look very strongly at no fly lists and watch lists people are on there, even if they shouldn't be on there, we'll help them get off. but i tend to agree with that quite strongly. i do want to bring up the fact that you were the one that brought up the word super predator about young black youth. and that's a term that i think was -- it's been horribly met, as you know. i think you've apologized for it, but i think it was a terrible thing to say, and when it comes to stop and frisk, you
taking guns away. well, i'm talking about taking guns away from gangs and people that use them, and i really don't think you disagree with me on this, if you want to know the truth. i think maybe there's a political reason why you can't say it, but i really don't believe. in new york city, stop and frisk, we had 2,200 murders and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders. 500 murders is a lot of murders. hard to believe, 500 is supposed to be good? but we went from 2,200 to 500, bloomberg, and it was terminated by our current mayor. but stop and frisk had a tremendous impact on the safety of new york city. tremendous beyond belief, so, when you say it has no impact, it really did. it had a very, very big impact. >> well, it's also fair to say, if we're going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop, including murders. so -- >> you're wrong. >> no, i'm not. >> murders are up.
across the board, going back two mayors, two police chiefs, because it has worked. and other communities need to come together to do what will work as well. look, one murder is too many. but it is important that we learn about what has been effective. and not go to things that sound good that really did not have the kind of impact that we would want. who di neighborhoods safe? but let's also add, no one should disagree about respecting the rights of young men who live in those neighborhoods. and so, we need to do a better job of working again with the communities, faith communities, business communities, as well as the police, to try to deal with this problem. >> this conversation is about race, and so mr. trump, i have to ask you -- >> i would like just to
>> i would like to respond. >> i have to follow up. >> look. the african-american community has been let down by our politicians. they talk good around election time like right now, and after the election, they say, see you later, see you in four years. the african-american community -- look, the community, within the inner cities, has been so badly treated. they've been abused and used in order to get votes by democrat politici politicians, because tha they've controlled these communities for up to 100 years. >> mr. trump -- >> you look at the inner cities and i just left detroit and philadelphia, you've seen me, i've been all over the place. you decided to stay home, and that's okay, but i will tell you, i've been all over, and i've met some of the greatest people i'll ever meet, within these communities, and they are very, very upset with what their politicians have told them and what their politicians have done.
>> i think donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. and yes, i did. and you know what else i prepared for? i prepared to be president. and i think that's a good thing. >> mr. trump, for five years, you perpetuated a false claim that the nation's first black president was not a natural born citizen. in the last couple of weeks, you acknowledged what most americans have accepteder if years, the president wa states. can you tell us what took you so long? >> i'll tell you -- well, just very simple to say. sydney bloombloomenthal, very c friend of secretary clinton, and her campaign manager, patty doyle, went to, during the campaign, her campaign against president obama, fought very hard and you can go look it up and you can check it out and if
patty doyle was on wolf blitzer, saying that this happened, sent a highly respected reporter to kenya to find out about it, they were pressing it very hard. she failed to get the birth certificate. when i got involved, i didn't fail. i got him to give the birth certificate. i'm satisfied with it. and i'll tell you why -- >> that was in 2011. isis. i want to get onto creating jobs. because i want to get onto having a strong border. because i want to get onto things that are very important to me and that are very important to the country. >> i will let you respond, it's important, but i want to get the answer here. the birth certificate was produced in 2011. you continued to tell the story and question the president's legitimate si in 2012, '13, '14, as recently as january. so, the question is, what changed your mind?
nobody was caring much about it. i figured you would ask the question tonight, of course. but nobody was caring much about it. but i was the one that got him to produce the birth certificate, and i think i did a good job. secretary clinton also fought it, i mean, you know, now, everybody in main stream is going to say, that's not true -- look, it's true. sydney bloomenthal sent a reporter. you just have to look at cnn, the last week, the interview with your former campaign manager and she was but just like she can't bring back jobs, she can't produce. >> i'm sorry, just going to follow up and i will let you respond to that because there's a lot there. but we're talking ash raci iing healing what do you say to americans -- >> i say nothing, because i was able to get him to produce it. he should have produced it a long time before. i say nothing. when you talk about healing, i think that i've developed very, very relationships over the last little while with the
i think you can see that. and i feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion and i think i did a great job and a great service, not only for the country, but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate. >> secretary clinton? >> well, just listen to what you heard. and clearly, as donald just admitted, he knew he was going to stand on this debate stage and lester holt was going to be asking us questions, so tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed. but it can't be dismissed that easily. he has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an american citizen. there was absolutely no evidence for it, but he persisted, he persisted year after year,
people that he was trying to bring into his fold apparently believed it or wanted to believe it. but remember, donald started his career back in 1973 being sued by the justice department for racial discrimination. because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to african-americans and he made sure that the people who worked for him understood that was the policy. he actually was sued twice by the justice department. so, he has a long record engaging in racist behavior. and the birther lie was a very hurtful one. barack obama is a man of great dignity and i could tell how much it bothered him and annoyed him that this was being touted
but i like to remember what michelle obama said in her amazing speech at our democratic national convention. when they go low, we go high. and barack obama went high, despite donald trump's best efforts to bring him down. >> mr. trump, you can respond and we're going to move on. >> i would love to respond. first of all, i got to watch in preparing for this some of your debates against barack obama. you treated him with terrible disrespect. and i watched the way you talk now about how lovely everything is and how wonderful you are -- doesn't work that way. you were after him, you were trying to -- you even sent out, your campaign sent out pictures of him in a certain garb, very famous pictures, i don't think you can deny that but just last week your campaign manager said it was true. so, when you try to act holier than thou, it really didn't work. now, as far as the lawsuit, yes, when i was very young, i went into my father's company, had a
and queens and we, along with many, many other companies throughout the country, federal lawsuit, were sued. we settled the suit with zero -- with no, admission of guilt. it was very easy to do. but they sued many people. i notice you bring that up a lot and i notice the very nasty commercials that you do on me, which i don't do on you. maybe i'm trying to save the money, but frankly, i look -- i look at that and i say, isn't that amazing? because, i settled that lawsuit with noll admission of guilt. but that was a lawsuit brought against many real estate firms and it's just one of those things. i'll go one step further. in palm beach, florida, tough community, a brilliant community, a wealthy community, probably the wealthiest community there is in the world, i opened a club and really got great credit for it. no discrimination against
muslims, against anybody. and it's a tremendously successful club and i'm so glad i did it, and i have been given great credit for what i did. and i'm very, very proud of it. and that's the way i feel. that is the true way i feel. >> our next segment is called securing america. and we want to start with a 21st century war happening every day in this country. our institutions are under cyber attack and our secrets are being behind it and how do we fight it? secretary clinton? this answer go to you. >> well, i think cyber security, cyber warfare, will be one of the biggest challenges facing the next president, because clearly we're facing, at this point, two different a veradversaries. there are the hacking groups that do it mostly for commercial reasons to try to steal information that they then can use to make money.
cyber attacks coming from states, organs of states, the most recent and troubling of these has been russia. there's no doubt now that russia has used cyber attacks against all kinds of organizations in our country, and i am deeply concerned about this, i know donald is very praise-worthy of vladimir putin, but putin is playing a very long, tough game here. is to let loose cyber attackers to hack into government files, to hack into personal files, hack into the democratic national committee. and we've recently have learned that, you know, that this is one of their preferred methods of trying to wreck havoc and collect information. we need to make it very clear whether it's russia, china, iran or anybody else, the united
capacity. and we are not going to sit idly by and permit state actors to go after our information. our private sector information or our public sector information. and we're going to have to make it clear that we don't want to use the kinds of tools that we have, we don't want to engage in a different kind of warfare, but we will defend the citizens of this country. and the russians need to unders i think they've been treating it as almost a probing, how far can we go, how much would we do? and that's why i was so shocked when donald publicly invited putin to hack into americans. that -- that is just unacceptable. it's one of the reasons why 50 national security officials who served in republican information -- administrations have said that donald is unfit to be the commander in chief.
worry people who understand the threats that we face. >> mr. trump, you have two minutes on the same question. who is behind it and how do we fight it? >> i would just say, i was endorsed and more are coming next week, it will be admirals, many of them are here, admirals and generals endorsed me to lead this country. that just happened, and many more are coming. and i'm very proud of it. in addition, i was just endorsed by i.c.e. they have never before on immigration. i was just recently endorsed, 16,500 border patrol agents, so when secretary clinton talks about this, i mean, i'll take the admirals and i'll take the generals any day over the political hacks that i see that have let our country so brilliantly over the last ten years with their knowledge, okay? because look at the mess that we're in. look at the mess that we're in. as far as the cyber, i agree to parts of what secretary clinton said, we should be better than
not. i don't think anybody knows it was russia that broke into the dnc. she say's say russia, russia, russia, but maybe it was, it could be russia, but it could also be china. could be lots of other people. it could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay? you don't know who broke into dnc. but what did we learn with dnc? we learned that bernie sanders was taken advantage of by your people. by debbie what happened to her. but bernie sanders was taken advantage of. that's what we learned. whether that was russia, whether that was china, whether it was another country, we don't know, because the truth is, under president obama, we've lost control of things that we used to have control over. we came in with an internet, we came up with the internet, and i think secretary clinton and myself would agree very much, when you look at what isis is doing with the internet, they're beating us at our own game.
tough on cyber and cyber warfare. it is a -- it is a huge problem. i have a son, he's 10 years old. he has computers. he's so good with these computers, it's unbelievable. the security aspect of cyber is very, very tough and maybe it's -- it's hardly doable, but i will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing, but that's true throughout our whole governmental society. we have so many things that we ha t >> secretary clinton? >> well, i think there are a number of issues that we should be addressing. i have put forth a plan to defeat isis, it does involve going after them online, i think we need to do much more with our tech companies, to prevent isis and their operatives from being able to use the internet, to radicalize, even direct people
elsewhere. but we also have to intensify our air strikes against isis and eventually support our arab and kurdish partners to be able to actually take out isis in raqqah, in their claim of being a caliphate. we are making progress. our military is assisting in iraq, and we're hoping that within the year, we'll be able to push isis out of iraq, and them in syria. but we have to be cognizant of the fact that they've had foreign fighters coming to volunteer for them, foreign money, foreign weapons. so, we have to make this the top priority, and i would also do everything possible to take out their leadership. i was involved in a number of efforts to take out al qaeda leadership when i was secretary of state, including, of course, taking out bin laden, and i
baghdadi, as well. make that one of our organizing principles, because we've got to defeat isis, and we've got to do everything we can to disrupt their propaganda efforts online. >> you mentioned isis, and we think of isis, certainly, as over there, but there are american citizens who have been inspired to commit acts of terror on american soil. the latest incident, of course, the bombings we just saw in new york and new jersey, the knife attack at a mall in minnesota and deadly attacks in bernardino and orlando. i'll ask this to both of yo tell us how you would prevent home grown attacks by american citizens? mr. trump? >> well, first, i have to say one thing. very important. secretary clinton is talking about taking out isis. we will take out isis. well, president obama and secretary clinton created a vacuum the way they got out of iraq. because they got out -- they shouldn't have been in, but once they got in, the way they got
and isis was formed. so, she talks about taking them out, she's been trying to take them out for a long time. but they wouldn't have even before formed if they left some troops behind. like 10,000 or maybe something more than that. and then you wouldn't have had them. or, as i've been saying for a long time and i think you'll agree because i said it to you once, had we taken the oil and we should have taken the oil, isis would not have been able to form, either, because the oil was their income. and now they have the oil all over the place, including the oil, a lot of the oil, in libya, which was another one of her disasters. >> secretary clinton? >> well, i hope the fact checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard. donald supported the invasion of iraq. >> wrong. >> that is absolutely. >> wrong. >> proved over and over again. he actually advocated for the actions we took in libya. and urged that gadhafi be taken
business with him one time. but the larger point, he says this constantly, is george w. bush made the agreement about when american troops would leave iraq. not barack obama. and the only way that american troops could have stayed in iraq is to get an agreement from the then-iraqi government that would have protected our troops. and the iraqi government would not give that. but let's talk about the question you asked, lester. the question you ask ed is, wha do we do here in the united states? that's the most important part of this. how do we prevent attacks? how do we protect our people? and i think we have to have an intelligent surge, where we are looking for every scrap of information. i was so proud of law enforcement in new york, in minnesota, in new jersey, you know, they responded so quickly,
that occurred by arahami, and they brought him down. and we may find out more information because he is still alive, which may prove to be an intelligence benefit. so, we've got to do everything we can to vacuum up intelligence from europe, from the middle east. that means we've got to work more closely with our allies. and that's something that donald has been very dismissive of. we're working with nato, the longest military history of the world, to really turn our attention to terrorism. we're working with our friends in the middle east. many of which, as you know, are muslim majority nations, donald has consistently insulted muslims abroad, muslims at home, when we need to be cooperating with muslim nations and with the american/muslim community. they're on the front lines. they can provide information to us that we might not get anywhere else. they need to have close-working
in these communities, not be alienated and pushed away as some of donald's rhetoric, unfortunately, has led to. >> mr. trump -- >> well, i have to response. >> please responsibility. >> the secretary said, very strongly, about working with -- we've been working with them for many years. and we have the greatest mess anyone's ever seen. you look at the middle east. it's a total mess. under your direction, to a large extent. but you started the iran deal. that's another beauty, where you have a country that was ready to fall, i mean, they were doing so badly, they were choking on the sanctions, and now they're going to be actually, probably, a major power at some point pretty soon, the way they're going. but when you look at nato, i was asked on a major show, what do you think of nato? and you have to understand, i'm a business person. i did really well. but i have common sense. and i said, well, i'll tell you. i haven't given lots of thought to nato, but two things. number one, the 28 countries of
their fair share. number two, and that bothers me, because we should be -- we're defending them and they should at least be paying us what they're supposed to be paying by treaty and contract. and number two, i said, and very strongly, nato could be obsolete. and i was very strong with this and it was covered very accurately in "the new york times," which is unusual, to be honest. i said, they do not focus on terror. and i was very strong. and i said and about four months ago, i read on the front page of "the wall street journal" that nato is opening up a major terror division and i think that's great. and i think we should get, because we pay approximately 73% of the cost of nato, it's a lot of money, to protect other people. but i'm all for nato, but i said, they have to focus on terror also, and they're going to do that. and that was, believe me, i'm not going to get credit for it,
was saying and my criticism of nato. i think we have to get nato to go into the middle east with us in addition to surrounding nations, and we have to knock the hell out of isis. and we have to do it fast. when isis formed, in this vacuum created by barack obama and secretary clinton, and -- believe me, you were the ones that took out the troops. not only that, you named the day. they couldn't believe it. they sat back probably and said -- >> lester, we covered ts round. >> when they formed, this is something that never should have happened. it should have never happened. now, you're talking about taking out isis, but you were there and you were secretary of state when it was a little infant. now, it's in over 30 countries and you're going to stop them? >> mr. trump, a lot of these are judgment questions. you had supported the war in iraq before the invasion. what makes your -- >> i did not support the war in iraq. >> 2002. >> that is a mainstream media
she frankly, i think the best person in her campaign is mainstream media. >> my question is -- >> would you like to hear -- i was against the war in iraq. just so you put it out. >> the record shows otherwise. >> the record does not show that. the record shows that i'm right. when i did an interview with howard stern, very lightly, first time anyone's asked me that, i said, very lightly, i don't know, maybe. who knows. essentially. i then did an interview neil cavuto, we talked about the economy, it's more important, i then spoke to sean hannity, everybody refuses to call sean hannity, i had numerous conversations with sean hannity at fox, and he said, he called me the other day, and i spoke to him about it. he said, you were totally against the war. because he was for the war. >> why is your judgment better -- >> excuse me. that was before the war started. sean hannity said, very strongly, to me and other people, he's willing to say, but
against the war. he said, you used to have fights with me because sean was in favor of the war. and i understood -- also not very much, because we should have never been there. but nobody called sean hannity. and then, they did an article in a major magazine. shortly after the war started. i think in '04, but they did an article which had me totally against the war in iraq. and one of your compatriots said, you know, whether it was before or right after, trump was deaf -- bec article, there's no doubt, but if somebody, and i'll ask the press if somebody would call up sean hannity, this was before the war started, he and i used to have arguments about the war. i said, it's a terrible and a stupid thing. it's going to destabilize the middle east and that's exactly what it's done. >> my reference was to what you said in 2002. my question was -- >> no, you didn't hear what i said. >> why is your judgment any different than mrs. clinton? >> well, i have much better judgment than she does.
i also have a much better temperament than she has. i have a much better -- she spent -- let me tell you. she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on an advertise, they get madison avenue into a room, temperament, let's go after. i think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament. i have a winning temperament. i know how to win. she does not -- >> secretary clinton -- >> wait. the afl/cio, the other day, behind the blue screen, i don't know who you w secretary clinton, but you were totally out of control. i said, there's a person with a temperament that's got a problem. >> secretary clinton? >> whoa. okay. let's -- let's talk about two important issues that were briefly mentioned by donald. first, nato. you know, nato, as a military alliance, has something called article five, and it says this.
all. and do you know, the only time it's ever been invoked, after 9/11. when the 28 nations of nato said that they would go to afghanistan with us to fight terrorism. something that they still are doing by our side. with respect to iran. when i became secretary of st state, iran was weeks away from having enough nuclear mater to form a bomb. they had mastered the nuclear fuel cycle under the bush administration, they had built covert facilities. they had stocked them with centrifuges that were whirling away. and we had sanctioned them, i voted for every sanction against iran when i was in the senate, but it wasn't enough. so, i spent a year and a half, putting together a coalition that included russia and china, to impose the toughest sanctions
and my successor, john kerry, and president obama got a deal that put a lid on iran's nuclear program. without firing a single shot. that's diplomacy. that's coalition-building. that's working with other nations. the other day, i saw donald saying that there were some iranian sailors on a ship in the waters off of iran and they were taunting american sailors who were on a you know, if they taunted our sailors, i'd blow them out of the water and start another war. that's -- >> that would not start a war. >> that's not the right temperament to be commander in chief. to be taunted and the worst part -- >> they were taunting us. >> the worst part that i heard donald say is about nuclear weapons. he has said repeatedly that he didn't care if other nations got nuclear weapons, japan, south
it has been the policy of the united states, democrats and republicans, to do everything we could to reduce the proliferation of nuclear weapons. he even said, well, if there were nuclear war in east asia, well, you know, that's fine. have a good time, folks. >> wrong. >> in fact, his cavalier attitude about nuclear weapons is so deeply troubling. that is the number one threat we face in the world, and it becomes particularly if terrorists ever get their hands on any nuclear material. so, a man who can be provoked by a tweet should not have his fingers anywhere near the nuclear codes, as far as i think anyone with any sense about this should be concerned. >> getting a little bit old. i must say. >> it's a good one, though. well describes the problem. >> it's not accurate at all. not accurate one. so, i just want to give a lot of things and just to respond.
the single greatest problem the world has is nuclear not global warming like you think in your president things. nuclear is the greatest. we defend japan. we defend germany. we defend south korea. we defend saudi arabia. we defend countries. they do not pay us. but they should be paying us, because we are providing tremendous service, and we're losing a fortune. that's why we're losing. we lose on everything. i say, who makes these? we lose on everything. well, i said that it's very possible that, if they don't pay a fair share, because this isn't 40 years ago where we could do what we're doing, we can't defend japan. a behemoth, severaling us cars by the millions -- >> we need to move on. >> it's very important. all i said is, they may have to defend themselves, or they have to help us out.
trillion. they have to help us out. as far as the nuclear is concerned, i agree, it is the single greatest threat that this country has. >> which leads to my next question as we enter the last segment here, still on the subject of securing america. on nuclear weapons, president obama reportedly considered changing the nation's long-standing policy on first use. do you support the current policy, mr. trump? you have two minutes on that. >> well, i have to say that for what secretary clinton was saying about nuclear with russia, she's very cavalier in the way she talks about various countries, but russia's been expanding their -- they have a much newer capability than we do, we have not been updating from the new standpoint. i looked the other night, i was seeing b-52s, old enough that your father, your grandfather could be flying them. we are not -- we are not keeping up with other countries. i would like everybody to end it, just get rid of it, but i would certainly not do first strike.
alternative happens, it's over. at the same time, we have to be prepared. i can't take anything off the table. because you look at some of these countries, you look at north korea. we're doing nothing there. china should solve that problem for us. china should go into north korea. china is totally powerful as it relates to north korea. by the way, another one powerful, the worst deal i've ever seen negotiated that you started t iran is one of their biggest trading partners. they have power over north korea. when they made that horrible deal with iran, they should have included the fact that they do something with respect to north korea. and they should have done something with respect to yemen and all these other places. and when asked to secretary kerry, why didn't you add other things into the deal, one of the great giveaways of all time, of all time, including $400 million
before, that turned out to be wrong. it was actually $1.7 billion in cash, obviously, i guess, for the hostages, it certainly looks that way. so, you say to yourself, why didn't they make the right deal? this is one of the worst deals ever made by any country in history. the deal with iran will lead to nuclear problems. all they have to do is sit back ten years and they don't have to do much and they're up getting nuclear. i met with bibi netanyahu, believe me, he's not a happy camper. >> mrs. clinton, secretary clinton, you have two minutes. >> well, let me start by saying, words matter. words matter when you run for president and they really matter when you are president. and i want to reassure our allies in japan and south korea and elsewhere that we have mutual defense treaties and we
it is essential that america's word be good. and so, i know that this campaign has caused some questions and some powers on the part of many leaders across the globe. i've talked with a number of them. but i want to, on behalf of myself and i think on behalf of a majority of the american people say that, you know, our word is good. it's also important that we look at the entire global situation. there's no doubt that we have other problems with iran, but personally, i'd rather deal with the other problems having put that lid on their nuclear program than still to be facing that. and donald never tells you what he would do, would have he started a war? would he have bombed iran? if he's going to criticize a deal that has been very successful in giving us access to iranian facilities, that we
tell us what his alternative would be, but it's like his plan to defeat isis. he says it's a secret plan, but the only secret is that he has no plan. so, we need to be more precise in how we talk about these issues. people around the world follow our presidential campaigns so closely, trying to get hints about what we will do, can they rely on us? are we going to lead the world with with our values? that's what i intend to do. i intend to be a leader of our country, that people can count on, both here at home and around the world. to make decisions that will further peace and prosperity, but also, stand up to bullies, whether they're abroad or at home. we cannot let those who would try to destabilize the world, to interfere with american interests and security to be
>> lester, one thing i'd like to say. >> very quickly. 20 seconds. >> i will go very quickly, but i will tell you that hillary will tell you to go to her website and read all about how to defeat isis, which she could have defeated by never having it, you know, get going in the first place. right now, it's getting tougher and tougher to defeat them, because they are in more and more places, more and more states, more and more nations and it's a big problem. as far as japan is concerned, i want to help all of our allies. but we are billions and billions of dollars. we cannot be the policeman of the world. we cannot protect countries all over the world -- >> we have just a -- >> not paying us. >> we have a few final questions here. >> she's got no business ability. we need heart. a lot of things. but you have to have some basic ability. and sadly, she doesn't have that. all of the things that she's talking about could have been taken care of during the last ten years, let's say, while she had great power, but they
she ever wins this race, they won't be taken care of. >> mr. trump, this year, secretary clinton became the first woman nominated for president. earlier this month, you said she doesn't have, quote, a presidential look. she's standing here right now. what did you mean by that? >> she doesn't have the look. she doesn't have the stamina. i said she doesn't have the stamina. and i don't believe she does have the stamina. to be president of this country, you need tremendous stamina. >> the quote was, i just don't think she has look. >> did you ask me a question? you have to be able to negotiate our trade deals, you have to be able to negotiate -- that's right. with japan, with saudi arabia, i mean, can you imagine, we're defending saudi arabia and, with all of the money they have, we're defending them and they're not paying? all you have to do is speak to them. you have so many different things, you have to be able to do and i don't believe that hillary has the stamina.
>> well, as soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiates a peace deal, a cease-fire, a release of dissidents, an opening of new opportunities in nations around the world, or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a congressional committee, he can talk to me about stamina. >> the world -- let me tell you. let me tell you. hillary has bad experience. we have made so many bad deals during the last -- so, she's got experience, that i agree. but it's bad experience. whether it's the iran deal that you're so in love with, where we gave them $150 billion back, whether it's the iran deal, whether it's anything you can -- you almost can't name a good deal. i agree. she's got experience. but it's bad experience. and this country can't afford to have another four years of that
the final question. >> well, one thing, lester. he tried to switch from looks to stamina. but this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs and dogs and someone who has said pregnancy is an inkon veconvenience to employers, who has said women don't deserve equal pay unless they do as good as job as men and one of the worst said was about a woman in a beauty contest, he loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them, and he called this woman miss piggy. then he called her miss housekeeping, because she was latina. donald, she has a name. her name is alicia machado. and she has become a u.s. citizen and you can bet, she's going to vote this november.
let me just tell you -- >> mr. trump, ten seconds and then we have the final question. >> you know, hillary is hitting with tremendous commercials, some of it said in entertainment, some of it said, somebody that's been very vicious to me, rosie o'donnell, i said very tough things to her and i think everybody would agree that she deserves it and nobody feels sorry for her, but you want to know the truth? i was going to say something -- >> very quickly. >> something extremely rough to hillary, to her family, and i said to i just can't do it. it's inappropriate, it's not nice. but she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me, many of which are absolutely untrue. they're untrue and they're misrepresentations and i will tell you this, lester, it's not nice and i don't -- i don't deserve that but it's certainly not a nice thing that she's done. it's hundreds of millions of ads, and the only gratifying
money, over $200 million is spent, and i'm either winning or tied and i've spent practically nothing. >> one of you will not win this election, so, my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of the vower? secretary clinton? >> i support our democracy. sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but i certainly will support the outcome of this election. and i know donald's trying very but i hope the people out there understand, this election's really up to you. it's not about us. so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country and future you want. so, i sure hope you will get out and vote as though your future depended on it, because i think it does. >> mr. trump, same question. will you accept the outcome? >> i want to make america great again. we are a nation that is seriously troubled. we're losing our jobs, people
the other day, we were deporting 800 people and perhaps they passed the wrong button, they pressed the wrong button or perhaps, worse than that, it was corruption, but these people wering with going to deport ended up becoming citizens. ended up becoming it >> will you accept the outcome of the election? >> i want to make america great again. i'm going to be able to do it. i don't believe hilla the answer is, if she wins, i will absolutely support her. >> all right. well, that is going to do it for us. that concludes our debate for this evening. a spirited one. we covered a lot of ground. not everything, as i suspected we would. the next president debates are scheduled for october 9th at washington university in st. louis and october 19th at the university of nevada, las vegas. the conversation will continue. a reminder, the vice presidential debate is scheduled for october 4th at longwood
my thanks to hillary clinton and to donald trump. and to hofstra university for hosting us tonight. good night, everyone. >> and there you have it. it ended on a moment of agreement and there is the hand shake. they both agreed to accept the results of the election. it was a big debate. donald trump went after hillary clinton on the issue of trade, on the issue of the need for change in washington. as the debate went on, she went on offense. on the issue of his his business experience and that big issue of whether or not he perpetuated the birther issue on president obama. we see the families coming up to the stage right now. i want to bring in matthew dowd. it did seem like donald trump started out strong, but had to answer a lot of charges. >> very, very feisty prize fight that ill thought donald trump won the first few rounds on this, but she won this on points. when you take a look at the audience that she was talking to, which was both undecided
she needed to motivate more and become more enthusiastic, i think she achieved both of those. i don't think donald trump lost any numbers out of this among his base, i think he appealed to him. he certainly didn't grow. so, on points, no knockout, but on points, she won this. >> you saw him doubling down on a number of issues. byron pitts, let's walk through the facts on what that significant exchange on birther. >> george, trump tried to make the argument that hillary clinton startled the moment uf, saying that president obama was born in kenya. george, every legitimate fact checking source has said that's not true. so, we've come to the judgment here at abc news, that statement by trump is false. didn't resemble the truth at all. >> he didn't hesitate at all. >> he didn't. he took a new turn with it. saying that it was hillary clinton who started this eight years ago, which you have just fact checked, byron, and so have many other organizations, he went to say, though, she failed to get the birth certificate
fail. i got him to give the birth certificate. when the moderator pressed him, said, even after you got the birth certificate, why did you continue to perpetuate this question for several more years? he didn't answer that question about what it was that changed his mind, lester holt, we heard him try twice on that point, didn't get an answer. >> i thought it was extraordinary, he did not back down on the most fact-checked thing in his campaign. did not back down at all. stayed on point with that. >> same goes on iraq. invasion on iraq. >> and fact checkers have said there is no public solid information hearing from donald trump that he actually was against the invasion of iraq. there are a couple of nuanced statements, but nothing solidly against the invasion. >> seeing the clintons stay there on the stage. i want to go to january kaon ka hall. can't see what's happening with donald trump. is he still on the stage there, jon karl? pick up on this idea of donald trump doubling down on all of
not a lot of moderation there, he did pick several issues where he said he agreed with hillary clinton on the big signature issues he's talked about, he stayed with the policies he brought to this debate. >> george, the cheers you were hearing was, that was bill clinton going up, getting up on the stage and he's up there, as you can see, with hillary clinton. look, i think you saw two different donald trumps in this debate. for the first 45 minutes or so, you saw what i thought was his most substaiv performance we've seen so far, arguably his strongest debate performance. he was -- he was serious, he didn't get rattled. by the second half of this debate, you saw an angrier donald trump, you saw him clearly agitated by the charges being levelled at him by hillary clinton, and then coming down on those two answers, the birther answer and the iraq war answer, coming out with two doozies, things that are not true.
that e whe was adamantly agains the iraq war, where there is no evidence out there that he opposed to iraq war before the war started. so, i thought you saw two different performances. hillary clinton, much more aggressive in the second half of this debate, and much more effective in getting donald trump rattled. that was the donald trump that we saw in his rallies at the end, the first was a much more restrained donald trump. >> and cokie roberts, you covered a lot of the debates, including ronald reagan where he came in behind jimmy carter, lots of questions about jumped over the bar during that debate. is that what donald trump did tonight? >> i don't think so. that was what he needed to do, and agree that he did it at the beginning. but he really did go off when it got to the birther issue and especially the iraq issue. and started in one of his rants, and that's the question of whether people are ready to accept that and see it as something that they can imagine in the white house. he's got two more debates to go.
rattled. also, his facial expressions throughout were condescending and in ways just rude. and early in the debate, he was also bullying. so, i think there are a variety of things here that did not work for him. >> and matthew, that gets to the question of who is going to win the debate, the one going on in social media, the one that focuses on the news coverage in day two, three and four. >> yeah, i think that there's no question that he won on points as i said earlier, and you can already see on special media, there seems to be a wave in that direction. i would argue that he only won the first 15 or 20 minutes of this debate. it wasn't a half and half. and you could tell there was something under the weather actually in this debate about donald trump. and i thought her demeanor throughout was very pointed, was very clear, and she was very composed in this entirety of the debate. >> campaigns are now trying to shape this debate. they're in the spin rooms right now. our cecilia vega, tom llamas there. we'll be back there with them
>> there was donald trump right there
taking credit for president obama producing his birth certificate in 2011. one of the big moments in the debate. want to go to the spin moves right now. the campaigns have been heading there. that's where they try to shape the stories coming out of the debate. cecilia vega is there. what are you hearing? >> george, i was talking with my sources while the debate was going on. they are telling me tonight, they say donald trump was unhinged, one person told me he people. they are certainly declaring victory tonight, but one source did tell me they don't expect polls to shift after that. they still think donald trump was on that stage tonight and he did not look presidential, george. that's the word right now coming in from the clinton campaign. >> any one exchange they are most excited about? >> you know, i think that the birther one was especially important for them. they weren't sure that it was going to come up, in fact, they were ready to go, if, in fact, they weren't asked about it, so, when donald trump, in fact,
on it, went at it again, this was a victory for them in their camp. >> tom llamas, you've been covered the trump campaign from the start. i know that donald trump was supposed to come to the spin room himself. what are you hearing from the campaign? >> we are waiting for him, but george, the opposite. we are not heeching much at all. a couple of aides have talked to us. they're not taking a victory lap. some say the first 45 minutes were very good for donald trump. others are saying they're unclear how voters will interpret this debate. i can tell you this. from watching trump day after day, it's unclear how much he prepared. lines were prepared lines from his stump speech. hillary clinton hit him twice where i noticed trump was upset. the loan from his father, she said it was $14 million. at the end of the debate, she said some of the things trump said about women, he didn't want to end the debate that way. >> tom llamas, thank you. matt dowd, a sign when the campaigns don't go to the spin room, they don't know what to say yet. see if donald trump shows up.
don't think the trump campaign has a lot of confidence that they did really well in this debate. i think with, over the next two day, they'll say, we maintained our own, it's all fine. this was a missed opportunity for donald trump. the other thing is, every time a question got personal about him or his taxes or his businesses, is when he went off. when he was on a pure issue, like, the economy or trade, he was okay. when it got personal about him, that's when he went off. >> david muir, what are we seeing on social media? >> one of the things on fire on twitter and across social m was the moment when they were talking about hacking of the dnc, and donald trump and his answer talked, actually mocking speculation that russia could be behind the hacking of the dnc, saying it was china or a 400-pound man lying in bed. that lit up, just back to what matt said a moment ago, a lot of questions about donald trump's temperate. i have to ask about hillary clinton, did she do anything to help herself on honesty and
questions. martha raddatz, e-mails didn't come up. she gave one of her shortest answers yet. >> and he didn't come back to them, which was surprising. no one came back to the e-mails. she gave that very concise answer, saying it was a mistake, and that seemed to end it. i think we'll probably hear more about that in the coming days from the trump campaign. but again, i think you also have to look at the temperament issue. that's what people were looking at. the voters i talked to really wanted to see donald trump's temperament. so, it kind of depends on what part of the debate you honed i on. and that issue of trust. she was the debater that everybody knows she's the good debater, but do they trust her anymore? >> byron pitts, a lot of discussion on race tonight. some african-americans have been holding back from hillary clinton, what did they hear? >> well, george, trump did not help himself out with the case he made about the birtherism thing. i think his outreach to black america took a hit tonight, because i think people wanted -- not an apology, some truthfulness about him on that front. i think hillary clinton did what
? before it became a medicine, a wild "what-if." so scientists went to work. they examined 87 different protein structures and worked for 12 long years. there were thousands of patient volunteers and the hope of millions. and so after it became a medicine, someone who couldn't be cured, could be. me.
and we want to go straight back to the spin room. tom llamas there with
donald trump. >> i guess all of the online polls have it coming out well. >> mr. trump, she attacked that loan you received from your father and attacked some of the things you said about women. do you feel that was fair for this presidential debate?
you know, first of all, my father gave me a very small amount of money, relative to what i belt. i built a massive company. but i learned so much from my father. i learned tremendous from my father fred. the number one wrong, and it wasn't -- even that was the number compared to what i did. i thought that was fair, exempt the number one wrong. >> and the issue on women? >> i thought that with disgraceful, but much more than disgraceful tonight are the commercials she's taking, because she's desperate. the polls are coming out. you know it better than anybody, tom, we're really leading now, not just tied. one came out -- >> donald trump, pouroud of howe did. we'll see what the polls say in the coming days. that is all for us right now. our coverage continues online at abcnews.com and later on "nightline." and, in much of the country, your local news is next. i'll see you tomorrow on "gma." both vice presidential candidates are going to be there, tim kaine and mike pence.
[ cheers and applause ] >> announcer: live from hollywood, this is "dancing with the stars." >> tom: welcome to "dancing with the stars," the i'm tom bergeron. my partner erin andrews isn't with me this week, she's with her boyfriend and his family, mourning the loss of his nephew. we send you our love and thoughts. now, the phone numbers are on your screen. lines are open and will remain open until one hour after the