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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  November 17, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PST

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and it is best in government backs off and allows people to do something peaceful. that is our show, have a great . fox news sunday is up next.eat . >> i'm chris wallace. low enrollment numbers and millions of cancels policies have the obama white house on the ropes. >> we did fumble the ball on it. what i'm going to do is make sure that we get it fixed. >> the so-called fix isn't impressing insurance industry leaders or regulators. we'll talk with the head of america's health insurance plans karen ingagni and also ben nelson and our panel weighs in on the uphill battle to rescue obama care and in wyoming, a bitter republican primary between an incumbent and a
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political dynasty. >> i believe it's necessary for a new generation of leaders to step up to the plate. >> liz cheney joins us live in the first interview since announcing a run for the u.s. senate. plus, it's been 50 years since the assassination of president john f. kennedy. the questions about that tragic day remain. >> do you believe that lee harvey oswald was the loan as s assassin? >> i don't know. >> we'll talk to kathleen kennedy townsend and patrick kennedy. hello again from fox news in washington. president obama is scrambling to save obama care and just possibly his presidency. on friday he met with insurance industry executives to discuss his plan to undo cancellation of health insurance for millions of
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americans. joining me is head of the industry's top trade group, america's health insurance plans and from nebraska, former senator ben nelson, ceo of the national association of insurance commissioners. after the president announced his so-called fix, you put out this statement. "changing the rules after health plans have already met the requirements of the law could destabilize the market and result in higher premiums for consumers." you and other insurance executives met with the president for more than an hour on friday. did he change his mind or do you still have those concerns? >> i think it was a very good discussion all of the ceos felt that way. we had an opportunity to discuss the marketplace challenges. we have the same goals. we're going to work together to try to get people into affordable coverage. that's what americans want. we want to provide people coverage but we do have challenges. the question is, what happens, who will join the markets? will it be the young and healthy
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balancing out the old and sick, which is absolutely important to make sure that whomever buys they'll have affordable coverage. >> so, it still could destabilize the markets and result in higher premiums. >> we have work to do no question. we have an interest in doing it together and working to ining tn that. >> senator nelson, you said the president's so-called fix threatens to undermine the new market and may lead to higher premiums and market disruptions in 2014 and beyond. now the president called you personally on friday. has your group changed its mind or do you still have the same concerns? >> i think the commissioner still have the same concerns. keep in mind, some of the commissioners have already found a way to extend the coverage that people currently have in 2014. so there's some that have already done something comparable to what the president
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is talking about and others taken other steps to mitigate against this and some decided they're not going to follow what the president has suggested. keep in mind, it is a suggestion. it is not a ruling and it certainly is not a law. >> explain why this is such a problem for insurance companies, reinstating policies, figuring out premiums for the old plans and the new plans before the end of the year. and what do you think the result is? we know there are millions of cancellations. do you think most of those policies will be reinstated or not reinstated? >> let's step back. first of all, the reason that people are seeing changes and seeing communications from insurers is after january 1, 2014, the law requires us to meet the new benefits. that's principle number one. in terms of the new announcement, the state new year's commissioners as ben nelson said will decide what the rules are in the particular
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state. our members are going to work very, very hard to try to support their customers to provide them options at the same time making sure that the new market will be affordable and that's the key point. that's why i think there are a range of interests that are very important. insurance commissioners. the insurance industry. health plans, the administration, consumers working together to try to make sure that they can buy affordable coverage and that is the issue. how do we balance those risk pools? who stays out? who goes in? there's a strong interest in talking that out and working on that now so that people can in fact get the coverage that they need and that's what we're focused on. >> senator nelson, let me ask you a blunt question. do you think the president is trying to shift the blame for his promise about if you want your policy you can keep your policy from the white house to the insurance companies and frankly to your insurance regulators? >> i don't know that that's the
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case. what i do think is that the insurance commissioners from every state will do their level best to try to take care of their people back home and try to do it within the confines of the law and within the actual consideration as well. worrying about rate increases, trying to hold the line, make certain that the risk pool is sufficient under the rules of law of large numbers which is what you get with science the more people you have in the plan, generally the better the plan is. so excludeing some people from the plan creates certain issues. also, the commissioners are focused on solvency. they want to make certain this doesn't shift the cost to the point that insurers face and risk insolvency. >> finally, the president started out working with the insurance industry when it came to obama care but lately the white house has taken to bashing it.
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here are a few statements. >> that market has been like the wild west. it has been underregulated. >> some think they have health insurance and think they do and the insurance company says you owe $50,000. >> when the president was going around the country promising if you like your plan, cyou can kep your plan. did you know that wasn't possible under obama care? >> i'm not in the blame game. we're focused on addressing the reasonable problems. we have an interest in doing so so that the markets don't blow up. there's a joint interest in doing that. helping our customers. when you set rules in place and an industry meets them and then the rules are changed, that creates the kind of problems that senator nelson talked about. so we are focused on trying to address those problems in moving forward. we have a policy disagreement.
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we're going to work and we continue to work with the white house and the administration and we'll continue to do that because we have a shared goal of getting people covered and most importantly getting people covered affordably. >> we want to thank you both so much for coming in today. >> thank you. >> we want to continue the conversation now with our sunday group. fox news senior political analyst, judy woodruff, judge will and bob woodward of "the washington post." in the wake of the president's so-called fix, how much trouble is obama care in and how much trouble is president obama in? >> i don't think he did a great deal for relieve him of the political peril that his broken promise regarded by many as a lie has put him and despite diplomatic language employed by your guests about the fix, it seems clear to me the fix won't go very far and won't do very much and if it did, it would
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destabilize the market because it would leave out of the exchange policies a great many people of the very kind they need. they need young, healthy people to sign up and buy extensive policies to balance the risk pool so that there will be enough money to afford to pay for the care of the older, sicker people who are also getting this insurance. so there's both a political problem and a substantive problem and ihat what he's done has alleviated it. >> in the house on friday, 39 democrats jumped ship and voted with a republican plan that i think most people feel would effect got obama care and more than 100 democrats would have joined the republican effort. here's a clip from a california democratic freshman who still voted with the republican plan.
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>> what we have to do is take things working and build off that and be open as a party for things that are not working to fix them and make them better. >> judy, we're a year out from the election but democrats in both the house and the senate have a real problem here, don't they? >> the white house knows that. and what they know though is that vote could be made worse if the president had not made the accommodation he did a few days ago. they know this could imperil the presidency when it comes to domestic issues for the rest of the term. everything the president has tried to do is now on the line. if they can't get this website up and running and if they can't get people to have confidence in this plan, but you talked to smart policy folks in the white house and they say that there is at least a 50-50 chance at least that the website will be working and that people will be signing up and that it will -- the experience overall that the benefits will outweigh the
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negatives. >> they're telling you it's a 50% chance it won't be working? >> i'm probably being more conservative than they are. they are trying to scale down expectations. they think there's a good chance -- by the way, they think they have common cause with the insurance industry. they tell you that they say the insurance companies tell them there's pent-up demand for these policies. they want coverage. and it's in the interest of the insurance industry to sell these plans. the white house is counting on that. >> meanwhile, republicans are having a field day with the president's problems with obama care in the weekly gop media address senator ron johnson said that the president -- his apology was as phony as his fraudulent marketing of obama care. take a look at this. >> consumer fraud this massive in the private sector could and should bear serious legal
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ramifications. for president obama, however, it helped secure enough votes to pass obama care and win re-election. >> george, is this now a free fire zone for republicans and do they have any obligation in a political sense to offering a serious alternative? >> i think the republicans have offered serious alternatives all along. the president's name is on this. he did it without any other votes so live with it. one republican put it brilliantly. a congressman from louisiana said a president is like a man that burns your house down but then shows up with an empty water bucket and delivers a lecture about how bad your house was before he burned it down. it was nine months ago an official of the centers on medicare and medicaid services told a conference what we want to avoid is a third world experience. we've had the third world experience and what judy rather
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delicately calls the president's accommodation looks to a great many of us to look illegal. we're told in grade school that in that building behind you are the two legislative chambers of the federal government. there's a third. it's called the white house press room into which the president can on a whim rewrite laws. it's an historic civics lessons. >> i didn't learn that in school. i hate it when people come to me and say you've been around this town a long time because i always know what that means. bob, you've been around this town a long time. have you ever seen anything like this? a president with three years to roll out his signature accomplishment literally with his name on it and it gets so botched. >> you think about what this is. it's a mess clearly. what it isn't and what i think you have to look at the question and motive and the president's motive here even though there are problems with implementation, he wants to do
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something good for 30 million people and get them health insurance. this isn't watergate. this isn't clinton and monica lewinsky. >> i'm not saying it's a scandal. it seems to be rank incompetence. >> there's no question about that. you see all of these stories and this frenzy out there. the game over. the presidency is over. some people are saying i think that's not the case. here's the other side of this, which i would agree with george will on, when you go down the road, it's going to get worse because you talk to the experts and they will tell you that this is a money issue. it's going to blow a hole in the budget and as we go in two or three months from now and have more, are we going to shut down the government? are we going to pay for the debt we have? all of a sudden this is going to come on the table and people are going to say, my god, it's going to cost much more money than we
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were spending on these things before. so how you disentangle this is now on obama's head. can he learn? this is an executive function, which is something he's not starred in so far in this presidency and can he get it together? everyone says and knows he's quite bright and can he learn to manage? because this is -- >> when it was said we're trying to prevent blowing up the insurance markets. that's a rather big deal. i think this is a constitutional scandal. suppose the next republican president, and there will be another republican president, comes into the press room some days and says, you know, i really think the capital gains tax does not serve the national interest so we're just as an act of executive discretion going to quit enforcing that for a few years. that's not the rule of law. >> it is in a way but as you know there's a strong other side
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on that and we're at the moment here where people have to make decisions and this is an implementation issue. i think people are going to give him discretion. >> all right. we're going to keep you all hanging. we'll talk to the panel and bring them back later. first, liz cheney joins us for her first sunday show interview since launching her controve fighting constipation by eating healthier, drinking plenty of water, but still not getting relief? try dulcolax laxative tablets. dulcolax is comfort-coated for gentle, over-night relief. dulcolax. predictable over-night relief you can count on.
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interest in growing in the 2014 elections. three-term incumbent faces a challenge by liz cheney.
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joining me now for his first sunday interview as a candidate is liz cheney. welcome. >> it's great to be here. do you believe that president obama knowingly lied when he went around the country and promised if you like your insurance plan you can keep your plan? >> i do. there's no way he could not have known the truth. there was very clearly a situation in which they were thinking, you know what, the media never holds us accountable. they won't hold us. >> caller: accountable here. he probably figured he had to say this in order to get it passed. no question but that he lied. we're all paying the price for it now. you see real turmoil inside the democratic party because now even democrats have to admit what the president said was fundamentally untrue and that this has been a train wreck. >> your opponent in this race, senator enzi, voted against obama care but you say that's not enough and you point to the
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fact that he was a member of the so-called gang of six that beforehand worked three republicans, three democrats to try to work out a compromise unsuccessfully and he dropped out and voted against it. isn't that what legislating is about? >> legislating is about knowing where to draw the line. certainly at some point we all believe in compromise for the good of the nation. you know, we have the code of the west out in miawyoming. when the president of the united states walks into the room or his allies say we'll impose this program and take over a sixth of the economy, senator enzi's response was to say, all right, let's negotiate about that the right response would have been absolutely not. under no circumstances. frankly, if all of the republicans had done that at the beginning, had stood their ground and refused to negotiate to compromise on this, we probably wouldn't be where we are today. instead you had republicans like senator enzi who gave the president running room and cover and the ability to say, hey,
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this is a bipartisan effort when in fact it wasn't. it was never intended to be. they got used. the right answer then would have been we're not going to allow you to go down that path. >> you started erunning your first tv ad of the campaign. here's a clip. >> when i was 12 years old, my dad ran for congress and we campaigned as a family all across wyoming. i'm running for the united states senate because it's time for a new generation of leaders to step up to the plate. >> a couple things about that ad. you talk about in the ad about your local family roots in wyoming and that's true. you and your husband and your children just moved from northern virginia last year. some people in wyoming are saying you're a carpet bagger. >> i think, first of all, what that ad shows is i'm a fourth generation wyomingite and a plug to my daughter at the end of the ad. look, i mean, on my mom's side i'm fourth generation.
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on dad's side third generation wyomingite. those making the charge don't want to talk about senator enzi's lack of results. i would say also the time that i spend outside wyoming, the time i spent working inside federal agencies in washington, d.c., is experience that's very important for what i think has got to be the top priority of wyoming senator which is rolling back massive expansion of our federal governmenting cutting agencies and their size getting the federal government under control. the abuse going on by agencies like epa, war on coal, this president's policies across the board involve a massive unsustainable expansion of the federal government. having worked inside federal agencies, i know how to cut them. i know what it will take to roll it back. >> you say in that ad it's time for a new generation. let's look at mike enzi's record. let's put it up on the screen. he has a 93% lifetime rating from the american conservative
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union. 100% from the national right to life committee and an a plus from the nra. is there something wrong with that record or are you just saying that at age 69, he's too old? >> it's not about age. he's been here for 18 years. the last five under barack obama. and the people of wyoming are suffering greatly. we're ground zero for this president's policies. when you're in a position like that, it's not enough just to say, i'm going to go along to get along and continue business as usual. it's going to take people who are willing to lead. people willing to stand up and say, you know what? the president's war on coal isn't just going to devastate wyoming. anybody around this country who likes to flip a switch and have the lights come on will appreciate the affordable electricity are with us on the war on coal. it requires leadership and mobilizing people to stand up against this onslaught of our constitutional rights, our liberties and values and frankly over the last five years things
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are worse for the people of wyoming and not better. >> if i may -- >> you may. >> the president is the president. the democrats hold control of the senate. just the numbers are the numbers. you say it's not justify to say i tried and you need to push back more aggressively. what specifically can you point to and say that you would have been able to block in obama agenda with democratically controlled senate that mike enzi failed to block? >> across the board. we talked about obama care. i would not have participated in the gang of six. >> he passed it without a single republican vote. >> it's not just about voting. it's about whether or not the republicans have a new generation of leadership and new voices to stand up and mobilize people on our side to begin to roll this back. if we'll ever change the fact that the democrats have the majority, we have to get a new generation elected on our side. senator enzi's hallmark piece of legislation is something he's done with dick durbin, one of the most liberal members in the
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united states senate. that's the internet sales tax. i fundamentally believe either you're on the side that government has plenty of money and we need to have people keep more of their own money or looking for ways to tax people more. the internet sales tax is a way to tax people more. as a wyoming senator i would fight to help people in wyoming keep money in their own pockets. >> some of your conservative critics say you have flipped positions on some issues to try to attract wyoming voters that you didn't previously hold. you now say that you oppose same-sex marriage but they point out that in 2009, you opposed a constitutional amendment -- you say it's a state issue, it would ban same-sex marriage and you supported the state department offering benefits to the same-sex partners and they say that's a flip. >> it's not. i don't believe we ought to discriminate against people because of sexual orientation. if they are in a same-sex relationship and they want their partner to have health benefits or be designated as a
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beneficiary under life insurance, there's no reason we shouldn't do that. i also don't support amending the constitution on this issue. i do believe it's an issue that's got to be left up to the states. i do believe in the traditional definition of marriage. frankly, you know, senator enzi's friends and supporters are running an ad in wyoming and the senator has said he doesn't believe in gutter politics. he said he won't stoop to that level. i think he ought to renounce it. he ought to run the kind of campaign that frankly the people of wyoming deserve, which is what i'm doing which is a campaign based on substance and based on issue. >> you talked about your position against same-sex marriage. your sister, mary, married to a woman put out this post. the record, i love my sister but she's dead wrong on the issue of marriage. >> and i love mary very much. i love her family very much. this is an issue on which we disagree. >> finally, the primary is not until next august. this is a long time from now. your dad has already gotten into
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a dustup with senator enzi. your mom has gotten into a dustup with former senator simpson who is supporting enzi. any qualms about getting involved in what almost seems like a family feud inside the wyoming republican party? >> you know, look, i think the statement that the state party put out the day i announced is a good one reminding the people of wyoming that the state doesn't belong to any one person. it's a good thing for the state and party and voters having a chance to make a decision and again, we are facing huge issues. the stakes here in terms of the threat to our freedom and threat to our values, what it means if we allow this president the next three years essentially unopposed if we don't decide we'll stand and fight, those stakes are so high that that's what matters. that's why i got in this race. i really do believe we can't continue business as usual and hope to be able to save our fundamental freedoms to defend our constitutional rights
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against this onslaught. >> liz, thank you. thanks for joining us. please come back. >> i sure will. thanks. >> we also have invited her opponent senator mark enzi for an interview. we hope he'll accept. remembering jfk approaching 50th anniversary of his assassination. we'll examine the president's life and legacy with two people who call him uncle jack. hey america, even though she doesn't need them, cheryl burke is cha-cha-ing in depend silhouette briefs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try for yourself.
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>> president kennedy just five months before his assassination. his death shocked the world and it still has a deep emotional residence a half century later. earlier i sat down with kathleen
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kennedy townsend and patrick kennedy to discuss their memories of uncle jack. kathleen, you were 12 years old when president kennedy died and there's a wonderful old video of you and all kennedy children rushing to the helicopter to greet the president. what are your memories of john f. kennedy? >> that is a big memory. every friday the president came with my father and all of the grandchildren or children or cousins whatever you call us would rush to the helicopter and greet our fathers because we were so excited about seeing them and then usually the president would get into a golf cart and we would pile on and he would run it up and down the hills as quickly and as fast as he could and we would laugh and scream and think it was all so much fun. >> did you think of him as the president or uncle jack? >> he was uncle jack to me up until he was president. when he became the president,
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that was very important and as you can imagine, my father being the attorney general each night we would pray that my father would be the best attorney general ever and that uncle jack would be the best president ever so there was always a connection that he was the president and he had a lot of important work to do. >> the day he died, your father gave you a letter. >> actually, this is the day that my uncle was buried. my father wrote me. you can imagine it was a very tough time. there was a lot going on. my father was devastated. and yet he had the love to say, dear kathleen, you seem to understand that jack died and was buried today. as oldest of the kennedy grandchildren, you have a special responsibility to john and to joe. be kind to others and work for your country. love, daddy. and when i think of that letter, i'm stunned that he had the time
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and care to write it and then to also realize what the message was because you could understand as you know from interviewing so many after a death, a horrible death, people could be bitter and angry and want revenge and that message could easily have been the one that he sent us and we would have spent -- many members of our family would have spent the last 50 years angry at the forces that caused president kennedy's death and instead he asked us to be kind, to work for our country and to love one another. it's a really amazing legacy and so important what you say. >> patrick, you weren't born until 1967. what did your dad used to tell you about the president? >> he had this legacy of public service and i think it is something i think kathleen can
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speak to it. when we travel the country and people meet us, they tell us how much both her father and president kennedy meant to them as inspirational figures who just as kathleen referred to inspire people to give of themselves whether it's true the peace corps or many of the domestic programs. of course civil rights which president kennedy played such a pivotal role in helping to usher in. so that legacy lives on and we're very blessed to have that legacy. >> kathleen, i understand the 35 members of your family went to ireland this summer to commemorate the president's visit there and i'm also told to prepare for the onslaught of all of this coverage. how do you regard all of the attention to this 50th anniversary as a celebration of the president's life or an unseemly focus on his death? >> people have remembered, for instance, our trip to ireland
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president kennedy said the happiest four days of his life and jackie very thoughtfully sent to new ross where his grandfather came from the rosary he carried when he was shot because she knew how much it meant to the people of ireland. what i've seen in the last few months is looking back on what the civil rights movement did that president kennedy said this was a moral issue. his ability to go to berlin and say less than 20 years after world war ii when people didn't like the germans but he was able to put himself in those shoes. what we heard and what you know, we remember him not because he died. there are a lot of people who died 50 years ago. we're not remembering them. we're remembering because he asked us to be better. he said each of us can give more. can do more. he challenged us as you know for the peace corps but to go to the moon not because it's easy but
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because it's tough. what a great message to believe that you can take on tougher issues. >> patrick, i have to ask among all of the celebration of his life, do you believe that lee harvey oswald was the lone gunman? >> as kathleen pointed out, our family really visits both her father's grave and president kennedy's grave on their birthdays and of course those are the celebratory events that celebrate a life. i agree with you a lot of focus is on the death and conspiracy around the death but we have to live in the future and my father was an example of someone who always kept moving forward. he set that model for all of us when it could have easily taken him down if he had just been preoccupied about the tragedies that he had witnessed. so that was the message we all were given a is we ought to keep looking forward. >> kathleen, do you believe that
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lee harvey oswald was the lone assassin? >> i don't know. i don't know. i think -- i don't know. >> do you question it? >> what we learned from that letter from my father is that i'm not going to solve that problem. and so what i'm going to do is focus on things that i can do to make a difference and that was a really terrible time in our country's history. >> let's talk about president kennedy's legacy half a century later. there is a growing body of thought that in fact president kennedy was quite conservative in some of his policies. he was a fierce cold warrior. he believed tax cuts spur the economy. kathleen? >> well, as you know, tax cuts when i was growing up were 90% of the marginal rate so he
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lowered it to 70%. one could say 90% to 70% is not down to 22% where we are now. he was a smart guy and balanced and he realized that we needed to put more money in the hands of of the citizens and that would help spur the economy and i think he was right about that. he did not like communism. that's for sure. he believed in freedom and liberty a lot. he also resisted at almost every turn the generals who wanted to go to war during the bay of pigs which is they wanted to bomb, he said no. during the cuban missile crisis when the generals wanted to bomb, he said no. because he thought that as george pointed out, if you have a long twilight struggle in which you stop communism and then believe in freedom, freedom eventually wins out which it has. >> patrick, i know you're very involved in mental health care with the very troubled -- i think some would say disastrous rollout of obama care, some
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people are questioning whether this raises doubts about big government solutions. >> well, i think president kennedy was so universally beloved because his message was such idealism. it was setting the goals. obviously in our own lives and the life of our government, we're not always that efficient in setting goals we set for ourselves but the goal is right. the goal is to treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated from the vantage point you don't want to be d discriminated against because of pre-existing issue in health care. do we have trouble implementing it? sure. is the goal right? sure. we have to fix this. good news is if we work together which is what president kennedy was about, we can attain and achieve anything and that was his inspiration to all americans. instead of tearing each other down, we need to build each other up and help each other and
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make this country an even better place to live. >> finally, for anybody who was old enough to be around at that terrible time, there's the question how much the world changed that day, november 22nd, 1963, before there was peace and prosperity. there was a sense that america's place in the world was certain. after that there were riots and assassinations as you know all too well. vietnam. watergate. how much did the world change that day? >> i think it changed a lot. i mean, i do believe that individuals can make a difference and leaders can make a difference. i think the loss of president kennedy was devastating to the world and the loss of my father. it shows that what one says and how one says it and what the leaders do makes a difference. and the loss of president kennedy and my father i think was devastating. >> kathleen kennedy townsend,
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patrick kennedy, thank you both so much for sharing this day. i hope that it is seen as a celebration of the president's life and not a focus on his death. our thoughts and prayers are with your family this week. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and when we come back, our sunday panel weighs in on that fateful day and the legacy of president kennedy.
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>> sights and sounds from the funeral procession that took the president's 35th president to his final place of rest some 50 years ago this coming week.
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we're back now with the panel. george, your thoughts about john f. kennedy's legacy and this growing notion that he in fact espoused a lot of conservative values? >> he was a conventional liberal before liberalism changed in the late 1960s. domestically he believed in increased revenues from lower rates. more people substantially visit the fifth floor museum in the texas book depository than the library. it has more on the way with he died than how he lived. his record was thin. what his death did was give rise to a narrative that america was somehow deeply flawed because of
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this. if you look at the court historian, look under the index under o and you won't find oswald mentioned. not in the book. this was two years after the assassination. now the narrative that immediately emerged was a streak of violence particularly on the right killed kennedy. we happen to know he was killed by a silly communist. >> bob, when you look at kennedy half century later, what matters? what endures? >> well, i think the real message in what george is saying, i mean, the death was so abrupt and so tragic that the real lesson is that awful things can happen that change history and this changed history in a way that was unimaginable. i was in college and there was just this sense of everything is coming apart.
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there is no civility. there's no rationality. and one person -- i mean, i think the evidence is there that oswald did it. did it alone. there are lots of people that don't want to say this is the act of one mad man and they want to say there were forces out there. i don't see the evidence. >> let me ask you. i would say as pre-eminent investigative journalist of our generation, did you ever think of delving into the kennedy assassinati assassination? >> my answer always is tell me who was a member of the plot and bring them to me and i'll listen. you go through all of this and take any big moments in history, there are always unanswered questions and inconsistencies
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but that doesn't mean the body of evidence about oswald is not substantial. >> i want to pick up on something that bob and george said and that is that i think a fair reading of history would be that president kennedy's promise that president kennedy's promise exceeded his accomplishments, and perhaps the most resonant thing, perhaps, was his death. why do people 50 years later care so much? >> i think he was just a cool guy, a cool president that we had, and therefore appealing. >> you look at pictures of him running, he is positively glamorous. >> no question. i think despite the thinness of the record that george just mentioned, he has been the subject of the most successful public relations campaign in political history. the notion that he was a great president, indeed, perhaps in some surveys he's been listed as the greatest president. perhaps that's some testament to
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those who admired him so much and others to build this man's legend. it's a legend, i think, built on myth. one other thought on this, chris, and that is, we've never had a better lesson in the reason why courts have rules of evidence than his death. because lee harvey oswald himself was murdered and therefore never brought to trial, we never had the facts of that case tested in a courtroom with rules of evidence, and the result is that there is a mountain of evidence pointing at a multitude of directions about this thing, to the point, i might remind you, that one man's book even succeeded after much difficulty in getting lee harvey oswald exhumed because the book's theory is he wasn't the guy in the gave. well, they dug him up. it was oswald. >> judy, i want to pick up on the question that will i asked senator townsend near the end.
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do you agree with this notion that the world somehow changed, if not that day, in that period and, you know, one of the cli e cliches is we lost our innocence? >> i absolutely do, and i pick up on what bob said. it was the end of -- if we were innocent as a nation, it ended with the kennedy assassination. but what i find remarkable about him, chris, and yes, the historians are arguing today over whether he had a successful presidency or not, where he was on civil rights, on dealing with the russians and dealing with problems of both domestic and foreign policy. but setting that aside, he continues to inspire. i mean, i was a teenager, a young teenager, when he died. he inspired me, and he continues to inspire. i think young people today -- and look at the reaction even internationally to john kennedy. people still look at him as someone who represents this country. so that is something that endures about him. >> and very quickly, you've got
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kids, i've got kids. d do they get john kennedy? >> i don't think they get him the way we do, but they are interested in him. and i think that is something, again, that endures. up next our power player of the week. the 272
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as we've said, this week marks the 50th anniversary of the death of president kennedy. but it's also the 150th anniversary of lincoln's gettysburg address. here's our power player of the week. >> it's like a north star for the country. it's what we aspire to be. it's what we want to be. and i think that's, in a way, what lincoln intended it to be. >> scott hartwig has been the
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national historian at gettysburg for the last 18 years. and this is a special week for him. when was the last time you read the gettysburg address? >> this morning. four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. >> hartwig says you have to understand the circumstances. union and confederate troops fought the first three days of july 1863 in a battle that helped turn the tide of the civil war. four months later, lincoln came to the dedication of the soldiers national cemetary where 3,500 union troops were buried. >> the world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. >> the dedication on november 19 was a huge event. it was between 15 and 20,000
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people. >> but lincoln was not the main speaker. former soldier william everett delivered the oration for seven hours. the president spoke for two minutes, 272 indelible words. >> did people forget the gettysburg address was the gettysburg address? >> i don't know if the people here recognized as something historic and what lincoln said. >> but everett did. >> the day after he wrote a note and said, if i could have come to the central reason of why we were there in two hours minutesu did in seven hours, it would be history. >> the second was rewritten, perhaps, the night before in pencil. >> lincoln sees this as a chance to speak to the people in a brief speech and define this is the heart of what this war is about, and this is also who we
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are. >> from these honored dead, we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. now, he says, it's for us, the living to fight for what these men died for. and he defines what that is. it's a new birth of freedom. >> it is a message that endures a century and a half later, a lesson scott hartwig still loves to teach. >> the idea of being able to share the relevance of gettysburg, the relevance of the civil war in people's lives today, it's incredibly rewarding to be able to do that. it's a wonderful job. >> government of the people by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth. >> hartwig knows lincoln only had two weeks to write the gettysburg address. and he says the president had
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been developing the themes at the heart of the speech his whole life. and that's it for today. have a great week, and we'll see you ♪ ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. >> my fellow americans, while promoting the affordable care act i promised over and over again if you like your health care plan and your doctor, you can cope them. well, what i said was not accurate. as millions of you received letters from your insurance companies and saying that your policies are cancelled because of obama care. and so today, i am announcing that if your insurance policy was cancelled because of obama care, it can be renewed. but there is one thing i

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