tv America Live FOX News October 18, 2011 10:00am-12:00pm PDT
running. jenna: it looks better -- >> reporter: when there's something in it. jon: somebody hadn't paid the bill. jenna: could be the case too. "america live" starts right now. megyn: fox news alert on new reports that democrats are cutting ties with president obama on the campaign trail as he tries to sell his jobs plan in critical three battleground states this week. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. president obama waving good-bye to a friendly crowd of supporters during a stop in north carolina to push his jobs plan to the public. others have suggested it is a campaign effort. his reception in virginia may be lukewarm. we are getting reports that several leading democrats will not be joining mr. obama on the stage for any of his three stops through that state. some say they now have reservations about the president and will not commit to even supporting him next year. bret baier, the anchor of "special report," he's my guest
now live from d.c. bret, so he's going down to virginia which is considered a must-win state for him as well as north carolina, also considered must-win in his re-election efforts, and the democrats are distancing themselves? >> reporter: it's an amazing turn around, megyn. we are seeing several democrats distance themselves from president obama in virginia. biggest among them, former governor tim kaine. he's also the former head of the democratic national committee, a job that, of course, he was given by president obama. he will not be showing up on the campaign trail in virginia today. kaine is running for u.s. senate, and that's kind of a big, big moment. but there are several local lawmakers, state lawmakers who are also distancing themselves from the president. and one longtime state senator, a democrat, has already come out and said he will oppose president obama in 2012, and that goes to show just how vulnerable the president is even in a state that he carried in 2008, the first democrat to win
virginia in more than four decades. megyn: yeah. senator linda puller, a democrat, who's in a tough re-election battle has come out and said he's frustrating me just like he's frustrating others and announcing he won't vote for president obama in 2012 -- he won't, i guess. and -- she won't, i guess. and then also there is this ad which sort of gives us a feel for what's happening to the president in virginia. and there's a guy named ward armstrong, he's a democrat, the house minority leader there, and his opponent has been trying to tie him to president obama in the re-election battle. look what mr. armstrong does in an ad trying to hold on to his seat. watch this. ♪ >> i'm ward armstrong, and now charles point directer's comparing me to barack obama. that's a stretch, charles. i'm pro-life, pro-gun, and i always put virginia first. megyn: i mean, it was just three years ago that president obama, then-senator obama was the darling of virginia, so much so people were saying that state is now blue.
>> reporter: yeah. it's an amazing turn around for a state that really saw a lot of democratic push in 2008 and, obviously, the president carried it. and in southern virginia that's not really a surprise. but when you see lawmakers like the woman you just put up there from northern virginia, fairfax, those places that really have been leaning democratic in recent years, that's a big change. also it's worth pointing out that in the story of "the washington post" today this is how they phrased the eye itiner. quote, the white house had considered stops in danville, new port news, charlottesville and fredericksburg, but prominent democrats in virginia where obama's approval rating hovers around 50% encouraged the white house to alter that schedule so he would no longer visit districts where members of his party were involve inside tight elections. that's the "the washington posts phrasing of the itinerary. megyn: that might help those local lawmakers because they don't want to be tied to the
president, but that can't help his re-election chances in the state because now he's avoiding those areas where they're saying, please, i don't want to be seen with you. >> reporter: yeah. i think the white house and the obama campaign's calculation is that they need to fight in these areas, they need to fight in north carolina and virginia even though right now it seem like if election were held today, both of those states would go red, would go to the republican side. but, again, the white house says this isn't a campaign stop anyway. so he's just talking to folks about his jobs package, according to them. megyn: all right, bret. thank you. we'll see you tonight at 6 p.m. >> reporter: all right. megyn: an investigation is underway after a vehicle filled with president obama's podiums, presidential seal and audio equipment was stolen in virginia. the seal, similar to the one that you see right there on the lectern, only the commander in chief is allowed to stand behind it. the truck, parked at a hotel ahead of the president's visit
to chesterfield, virginia. fortunately, it has been recovered, and we understand no sensitive information was lost, but somebody somewhere has some serious explaining to do. we are looking into reports now about a growing number of consumers complaining that their credit cards were turned down for no obvious reason. people who typically have good credit, pay their bills on time and have a big enough available balance being told they cannot use their card. stu varney of the fox business network is the host of "varney & company", and he alerted us to these complaints. stu, this is actually quite embarrassing. hasn't everybody been there when you go to use your credit card, and they're like, sorry, and you know it's okay, yet everybody's looking at you like, ah, megyn kelly doesn't pay her bills. [laughter] i swear i don't know what happened! but this is something more than that. >> reporter: yes, it is. there's been a sharp rise recently of cards being declined for what are called unusual spending patterns. seems to happen mostly when you're out of state trying to
use your card, perhaps in an unusual or slightly different situation. it happened to me. four times in the last four weeks cards that are addressed to me or belong to my family members have been rejected, and again, it's usually for out-of-state reasons. and when identify talked about this -- i've talked about this, many of my friends and colleagues say exactly the same thing has happened to me very, very recently. so when you get declined, you've got to call up the card company, find out what's going on. and they told me they have recently tweaked their software, tweaked their computing systems to make them very, very sensitive to the slightest hint of fraud. so when you use your card out of state, and perhaps you haven't used your card out of state for sometime, then up you come on the computer, you're denied because you may have stolen that card or lost it or something, and they're just very, very sensitive to the issue of fraud. it's happening a lot. this is anecdotal. they're not going to tell me exactly how many times it's happened, but anecdotally, this
is a really common occurrence just recently causing big hardship to a lot of people. megyn: you know, i went to saks, i made a purchase, i gave them the credit card. they said you need to call the company, and the woman at american express said, you can't afford this. no, just kidding. [laughter] just kidding. that's one good thing about amex, they almost never turn you down. there's, like, no limit, i don't know, i've never put it to the test. >> reporter: you're making a joke out of this, but it happened to me. two of my daughters were stuck at a train station late at night because their card was declined. megyn: that's not good. although don't underestimate the importance of not being able to buy a fabulous new pair of shoes. thanks, stu. turning to the search to little lisa irwin. it has now been exactly two months since the baby was reported missing. the fbi bringing in tracking
dogs to search for clues. yesterday we told you that lisa's mother admitted to me she had been drinking heavily the night her baby vanished, saying that, in fact, she was drunk and possibly blacked out. since that interview, her parents have lawyered up. joe pack pee that -- tack pee that hired, but he is refusing to say who exactly is paying him. i will tell you, however, i have spoken to a wealthy benefactor who is picking up at least some of the charges associated with the case, in particular the reward understanding that she's a mother herself and wants to find this baby. when i spoke to lisa's parents, they told me at the time on sunday they had no use for an attorney yet. why haven't you gotten a lawyer yet? why are you talking to the police? >> we don't need a lawyer. we don't need one. megyn: aren't you worried that they're going to come after you? >> it's a possibility, yeah, it's scary. um, but we haven't got one up until now because we felt like
we didn't need one. we've talked to different people and stuff like that, but we haven't retained anybody. megyn: why didn't you hire a lawyer or go get a lawyer at the moment the police said to you, we think you did it? >> because i thought that that's part of the investigation. they're always going to look at the closest family, the people that live there. it's part of the process. i see it on tv. i figure they're going to do it, and then they're going to be done with it, and that's it. megyn: uh-huh. >> so i, you know, didn't think i needed one. megyn: trace gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with more. trace? >> reporter: we just got off the phone with kansas city police, a couple of interesting new things in this case. one, they are back out searching those woods depp. by our count this is the ninth or tenth time that local police have been out searching the woods near baby lisa's home. not sure if it's a tip or retracing steps. the big question now seems to be whether police knew about or have had a chance to question deborah bradley about the new
revelations from your interview with her, megyn, one that she was drunk the night baby lisaty appeared and may have blacked out and, two, that she put the baby down at 6:40 and doesn't really know if she checked on her again at 10:30 like she first said. that widens the timeline because police all along had been working with a five and a half hour window, 10:30 until 4:00 in the morning. now that goes to nine and a half hours, and i just talked to an investigator who said that changes the entire focus of the investigation. the police in kansas city now telling us if investigators didn't know about those two major facts then, well, they certainly know now. joe tacopina was asked about the police accusing deborah bradley of being involved, and here's his answer. >> i'm not talking about this. the nature of the questions, the depth of the questions or how off the questions were asked, i'm talking about things that were said during interviews regarding a certain individual's opinion of guilt of one of these
parents without any, any evidence to support that, just rank speculation. and that's not something, in my opinion, that needs to be done in the this case when you have two people who grieve the return of their child. >> reporter: police say they have not interviewed the family difference back on october 8th, still say they're not cooperating, and we're trying to get clarification on something deborah bradley said yesterday that police showed her burnt clothes and pings from a doppler talking about those cell phones. she hopes they don't have burnt clothes, we're talking to cops about that right now. megyn: indeed. and i have that discussion about the cell phone pings on tape with her in depth, and we're going to get into that in today's kelly's court. trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. megyn: well, folks, the mother's use of alcohol that night was not the only bombshell from my interview on sunday. did you take any drugs? >> no. megyn: are you a drug user? >> no. megyn: are you taking any drugs?
>> no. i take anxiety medication, but it's not narcotic, no. megyn: even before this episode, this eventsome. >> yeah. megyn: and were you taking it that night? >> yeah. i take it every morning. megyn: so we got into exactly what drug she was talking about, and the question is, is that drug for anxiety or depression? was this mother depressed? did she plan this pregnancy? more answers straight ahead, and we will be joined by dr. marc siegel and mark fuhrman on those and other critical questions on this case. well, coming up, the republican candidates gearing up for tonight's big debate in las vegas, but at least one of them will not be out there because of a big primary shakeup in key battle ground states. campaign carl cameron explains next. plus, a california kayaker drops a few hundred bucks to spend a nice day in the pacific, but what he caught on camera is priceless. and no gracias after a
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megyn: well, new details now on some campaign drama shaping up over the changing primaries and caucuses. we are now looking at the possibility that new hampshire may hold the nation's first be primary in roughly six weeks. raising the stakes for the republican candidates, hoping to run against president obama in 2012. chief political correspondent campaign carl cameron is live in las vegas, pat caw dell is a fox news contributor, and we thought we'd ask you guys to explain what's happening with this calendar and the boycotts of tonight's debate and of nevada. so let's start with tonight's debate. carl, who out there in vegas is not showing up and is boycotting
the debate and why? >> reporter: well, the only candidate who was invited is jon huntsman, the former governor of utah. he has formally boycotted not only this debate, but the campaign trail in nevada until such time as nevada changes its currently-scheduled caucus date from january 14th to sometime after january 17th as is demanded by the secretary of state of new hampshire, bill gardner. he argues that nevada's current scheduled date would force new hampshire to hold its primary perhaps as soon as december 6th. so huntsman's not coming to the debate, nor will he campaign in nevada until it's changed, now -- megyn: it's all about new hampshire, right, basically? bottom line it's about huntsman trying to show he loves new hampshire, don't mess with new hampshire, nevada, who do you think you are? huntsman told me personally his whole campaign strategy is to win in new hampshire. >> reporter: that's right. all of the candidates who are
boycotting which also includes newt gingrich, rick santorum, michele bachmann, and there's another one in there that i'm escaping, and they're going to be angry about it, there are a total of five who are boycotting and only three who are going -- mitt romney, rick perry and ron paul have said they will continue to campaign in the nevada. look for mitt romney to start taking a real pounding from the granite state press. new hampshire is his must-win state. he claims to be defending the first in the nation new hampshire primary, but he is supporting and campaigning in nevada which is by the likes of new hampshire republican intelligentsia forcing the new hampshire primary into december unless something changes. megyn: here's what our viewers need to know. romney and huntsman in particular are sort of married to new hampshire, that's their main squeeze, and they don't want to cheat with nevada because it's not as important electorally, so they sort of would like to win in informed, - nevada, too, but they can't do
each camp. and huntsman has said, nevada, i'm not going to debate there, i'm not showing up for the primary caucus there, forget you, nevada. and they're putting romney, pressure on romney to do the same. okay, i want to go to pat. let's talk about paths to victory because huntsman tells me he's got to win new hampshire, romney believes he's going to win new hampshire. karen, meantime, isn't really putting boots on the ground in iowa, he hasn't been doing a lot. can cain win this nomination contest if he doesn't win in iowa, and can romney win if he doesn't win in new hampshire? >> well, romney can't win if he can't win in new hampshire, i don't know about cain. cain needs to actually have a campaign in iowa and new hampshire. i mean, running a book tour is not running a campaign, and he's got to get out there with voters. more importantly, though, understand what's going on here which is what we have done is florida, which was orchestrated by romney and perry to push the process unnecessarily as early as it is, is now producing a
situation where new hampshire -- stupidly -- may move to december. the point being that they wanted to front load the process, megyn, so they could shut it down quickly before voters could see anyone. megyn: right. >> romney, by the way, is playing a dicey game. this nevada, he's the one that pushed nevada up. people in new hampshire figure this out, romney's got a problem of being two-faced as a charge against him by perry and others. and in this case he's dead to rights. the real losers here are the republican voters and the american people who have a right to have at least a decent space of campaigning. none of this was necessary. megyn: go ahead, carl. >> reporter: megyn, there's a really simple solution to this as well. there are five tuesdays in the month of january 2012. as it stands right now, florida has already scheduled its primary on january 31st. that's the last tuesday. iowa has scheduled its first in the nation caucus on january 3rd. that's the first tuesday.
there are three states that want to vote in january. one of them is new hampshire, one of them is nevada, and one of them is south carolina. new hampshire's willing to go on a tuesday, but south carolina and nevada be because of state party rules want to do it on a saturday, and they're being slow to move. five states, five tuesdays in one month. there's an easy solution. megyn: campaign carl cameron has just solved it for everyone. go down the line on the tuesdays, everyone could get along. >> they don't want to -- they don't want to get along. the front runners want to move this thing up as quickly as possible. if new hampshire moved to december which i don't believe they would do, they would certainly manage to be a nonevent. megyn: yeah. >> after christmas who would remember new hampshire? megyn: guys, thank you. we've got a developing story involving the mother of lisa irwin. plus, fox news anchor charles payne getting into it with a group of protesters from
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megyn: well, more news now from our interview with the parents of missing baby lisa irwin. was her mother depressed? and was she taking medication for depression? here's what she told me on sunday. did you plan the pregnancy? be. >> no. >> no. >> no. megyn: all right. did you want the pregnancy? >> um, i didn't know i wanted it, that's a good way to put it. i didn't see it coming. we were surprised. um, i was or more scared, he was excited. and, um, but, yeah, it wasn't
planned, but it was very much welcomed. megyn: you never considered an abortion? >> no. no. megyn: or adoption? >> no. megyn: did you suffer from any postpartum depression? >> no. megyn: nothing? you've been fine. >> yeah. she's, she's -- i'm happy. i have my two boys, i have my little girl, i mean, i've got an incredible guy. i mean, a nice house, i mean, i have, you know, everything i could ever want. why not be happy? i mean, this is everything i've ever wanted my whole life. people would ask me what i wanted to be when i grow up, i wanted to be a mom. megyn: and it went on which we should have included, and i asked her whether she was taking any drugs, and she answers she was taking an antianxiety drug that she takes every day and she had taken it even before that day. in siegel, a member of our fox ne
medical team. what is this drug? >> it's an anti-depressant. it can be used for anxiety, but it's much more often used for depression, and it's powerful. it is not one that i use first off. it's a second-line drug because it's a combination of two antidepressants. it's quite powerful, and it has to be taken every day. megyn: what does it say to you that she was taking that as opposed to a paxil or, i don't know, xanax, the ones we hear more often? >> your question about postpartum depression was astute, and you've really got to wonder -- and i'm only looking at this on a video, but she seems a bit depressed to me -- megyn: well, you can't second guess that now. >> right. but i wouldn't be surprised if she were depressed. the bottom line is she probably is depressed, and she probably was suffering -- megyn: so you think in more cases that's an antidepressant. >> the vast majority of cases. megyn: what would happen if or
on the drug and you drank? she says it's someplace between five and ten glasses of wine. >> it has a lot of side effects to begin with. it raises blood pressure, it can make you irritable; you add alcohol to that brew, it suppresses upper brain function and is itself a depressant, so you you don't want to be drinking alcohol -- megyn: any alcohol. >> maybe a drink or two is okay, maybe, if you have it under control. but the side effects actually increase if you drink alcohol. you have more neurological problems. and there's a lot of withdrawal -- megyn: including irritability? >> for sure. it's one of the bigst drugs for withdrawal. you know, if she didn't come out and say to you that she's taking it, maybe she was taking it and now withdrawing, there's a lot of maybes. i know this is supposition, but it causes a lot of side effects if you try to stop it acutely. megyn: so if you have several
glasses of wine, you would anticipate somebody would be, what, increasingly irritable? does it make you more depressed? >> >> it's not entirely predictable, but i would consider irritability as one possibility, inability to function properly, get more confused, balance can go, your fine motor function can go, your blood pressure could shoot up, your heart rate could race, and you could get very nest. megyn: when she admits to drinking between five and ten glasses of wine that night, as a doctor, would you accept that? >> on national tv every doctor knows that alcoholics always underestimate by a vast amount what they're actually drinking. we tend to double it. megyn: so we don't know she's an alcoholic, she says she's not, but when you're talking about the controversial use of alcohol, people tend to underplay it. >> we don't know if she's an alcoholic, but she told you close to -- megyn: between five and ten. >> that's a lot, and it's probably more than that, in my opinion.
megyn: dr. siegel, thank you. we looked at this drug, and it does have other uses, and ahead we've got a new twist in our search for answers in connection with the disappearance of this baby. coming up, why our guest, mark fuhrman, says he sees eerie similarities between a story he heard from lisa's mother and a similar story he heard from o.j. simpson. and what is wrong with working hard andingbeing successful? charles payne and a union leader head to head. >> when i get up every morning, and let me tell you something, i bust my ass every day. so the point that i owe someone outside of my parents, my community, my god, that i owe you more of my credit for what i do when i get up every morning at 4 in the morning is ridiculous. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve.
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megyn: wall street protesters are today marching to the district attorney's office in manhattan b protesting now what they call an over the top assault of a protester by police. the site was also the scene of an epic debate this weekend between fox business network host charles payne and a union leader, among others, and it was all caught on tape. things getting so heated that music mogul russell simmons, not to mention sally kohn, a frequent guest on this program, even jump in. listen. >> in the commercial break something interesting happened. a representative of organized labor with the communications workers of america was kind of mad at charles payne. i didn't get why aside from the
fact that he's successful. >> well -- >> oh! >> all right, russell simmons thinks that was unfair. >> success occurs in society because of the infrastructure of a society. some people will excel. but we have to remember there's a whole matrix of things that happen. government serves as a foundation on which civil society is built. >> what does that have to do with charles? >> charles' individual success had a lot to do with the infrastructure being in -- >> that means that you're in support of the institutions. >> we are in support of government, absolutely. >> and okay, wait. before i get to russell -- >> i hear this message that you, the president, your trying to say someone's successful because you rose on a public street. listen, i started my business in a one-bedroom apartment in harlem with $10,000 i raised amongst myself, my family and friends. >> god bless you. >> you're right, god bless me.
i bust my ass every day, so the point i owe someone out of my parents, my community, my god, that i owe now credit for what i do when i get up every morning at 4 in the morning is ridiculous. you're telling people they don't have the power to empower themselves. >> that's not my message. my message is one of community, if we all do well, each individual can to well, but unless we all try -- of course you have to work. >> i've got to say something. this argument, it's whether or not we're part of a collective, and we should be responsible. even going to the health care or the decent education or people who are suffer anything poverty. should we be responsible for them? people out here believe we should be, and they believe that our government in some cases should fund decent health care, a decent education, a decent opportunity. and there are others who believe i did it myself. but we know that isolation is referred to as a sickness, and
we as a society, we as a society have to represent the people and the individuals and not the corporations. >> so you do well in this country, you do well by this country. i don't know -- i like charles, he's a great guy. nobody's questioning his hard work and, frankly, nobody's questioning the hard work of people who do well in the society. the larger issue is that in this country you can't just work hard and get ahead and do well anymore. that used to be the american dream. now, listen, let's be really, really clear. there are legal structures in this country that are in force, your patents, your policy, enforced by our courts which we pay for. wait a second, wait a second. nobody, all i'm saying is all these people are saying is we should have an opportunity for other hard working people to do well. no, wait -- >> what percentage of taxes should someone pay to support that? that's all i want to know. >> charles, great question. but right now the wealthy are paying a lower tax rate than -- megyn: well, charles payne caught in the middle there joins me live.
charles, it was three against one, and you were trying to make your point. you sort of were outshouted by the others because you were outnumbered. what of that last point? you say, look, i started my own business, but they seem to be arguing, as they put it, that are we part of a collective, should we be responsible for struggling people, or shouldn't we? >> and the bottom line is we are. we're the most generous, kind nation in the world. the idea, though, if someone -- you know, if someone makes a million dollars, they're probably paying 500, $600,000 in taxes -- megyn: not according to president obama. >> have well, of course. but in real life, you know? and again, the notion of calling these billionaire taxes when ultimately the president's going after households that make $250,000, to put them on the same level is so disingenuous and economically so dangerous. by the way, this is a theme we're going to continue to hear, and i want people out there to know, first of all, what they're selling us is hopelessness, guilt and finger pointing.
and this is not what the country -- megyn: but if you don't want to give more of your salary and your earnings -- you should feel guilty about that. megyn: -- to the government, that you're a bad person. you don't give back. >> on top of, perhaps, giving 50 or 60% already. if you live in the tristate area and you make a high sick-figure, seven-figure income, you're giving a lot of that money back. megyn: they seem to be saying we have to help folks who can't help themselves and you had great opportunities -- [laughter] and, therefore, you should help others. what is your story? >> a, um, i hate that notion of people can't help themselves. i hate that victimization thing. i've seen it too much, and it's the worst thing in the world when someone buys into it. any of those kids who buy into the notion that they can't help themselves, i feel so sorry for them. yeah, i started my business in a one-bedroom apartment in harlem. megyn: did you grow up with money? >> absolutely not. i was an army brat, and then my parents divorced, and my two
brothers and me and my mother moved to harlem. we lived in a bedroom in the middle of harlem in the 1970s. the elevator was broke, crime, murders. you know what? i used to take for granted heat and hot water. as a kid when we lived on army bases, i never once thought about money. i can't remember ever once asking my participants for money. as soon as i was 12, 13, i had to work. i would clean windows, i would take a shovel and clean businesses. i always had a job. megyn: do you feel resentful, the amount of your salary this' being taken ask ohs want more? >> i feel the amount that's being taken and squandered, you know, on all the things in the world. i feel resentful that someone would try to piggyback my lessons and say i owe. i have my priorities in order, and i think most americans do. this whole argument does nothing for our country at a time when we should be telling others that we can.
i thought that was the pledge, yes, we can. really, realistically, it's no. if you didn't, you don't have a shot at it. that's ridiculous. that's not the american way. i refuse to ever accept that. megyn: charles payne launching a radio program today -- >> started yesterday. payne nation. megyn: check it out, folks. >> thank you. megyn: well, it's being called a basement of horrors. a group of mentally disabled adults held captainive in this room, no food, only a bucket for the facilities. details and word of more victims. plus, a california kayaker drops a few hundred to spend a nice day out in the pacific, but wait until you see what he's about to encounter and, no, it's not a shark. and the mother of lisa irwin admits to being drunk and possibly passing out the night the baby disappeared. why mark fuhrman sees eerie similarities between lisa's mother and o.j. simpson?ou that's next. glucerna hunger smart shakes.
megyn: well, the parents of missing missouri baby lisa irwin now represented by high profile attorney joe tacopina, the same lawyer who represented joran van der sloot. the hiring coming one day after surprising revelations in a sit-down interview with "america live." how much did you consume that day? >> i had several, several glasses of wine. megyn: when you say several? more than three? >> yeah. but that has nothing to do with her. megyn: more than five? >> probably. megyn: more than ten? >> no. megyn: were you drunk? >> yeah. megyn: is it possible you had a blackout? >> it's a possibility. i mean, just like anybody else when you drink, you don't remember the things that happened and stuff like that. but, um, yeah, it's a possibility. megyn: the last time you saw
your daughter alive in your home was when you put her down at 6:40. >> when i put her down, yeah. megyn: is it possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30? >> yeah. megyn: the police told you you failed a polygraph, they also told us that, and they said you failed it miserably. did they tell you what questions you failed? >> yes. megyn: what questions? >> do i know where she's at. megyn: did you kill little lisa? >> no. all the ideas people have on what me or him might have done or, it's just sick. megyn: joining me now, former lapd homicide detective and fox news contributor mark fuhrman. mark, you say after seeing the interview, and i know you've looked at the entire transcript, that she should now be referred to as the suspect. why? >> well, megyn, you know, if it looks like a duck and it sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck. what has this woman done to actually assist and push the
investigation forward? about the only thing we should be concerned with, the victim. she didn't say anything about going to the store and getting wine with her brother. the police had to find that and delay and eat up time by finding a receipt and going to interview the store and get the video. she just simply expands the timeline now by almost four hours which is crucial timeline that encompasses many more people including herself, it encompasses other people that were not considered suspects or even persons of interest. did she just for the last two weeks say that, well, i put her down at 10:30 and she remembered that, or was she creating that? it's obvious, now, that she was creating that moment, and the question is why? well, suspects create -- megyn: let me ask you about that part. let me ask you about that because, to me, it's not great for her that she was drunk. that's not a great fact, but let's be honest, people drink.
doesn't make them criminals. the thing that seemed most significant to me was the time change. she had told police, according to police, she told them the last time she saw her daughter was at 10:30, now it's 6:40, and she admits she does not know if she saw her daughter again after 6:40. how significant is that, and do you believe that? >> well, it's -- i don't believe almost anything that comes out of her mouth except for what she is cornered on and must admit. i think the combination of all these things is so overwhelmingly powerful. even if she told the police, okay, i put the baby down at 6:40, not 10:30, and then she omits that i was drunk. do you -- during your interview it was really interesting to me all the little tag words and descriptions that were used here. the baby was fussy. what does that mean? i would say irritable, crying,
cranking, not doing what she's supposed to, not laying down, not sleeping. some of the other words. people don't change when they drink alcohol. they'll do what they would do normally. people, people don't remember when they drink. is everybody listening to these words? these are not the words of the average perp that has a social -- person that has a social drink on friday night. megyn: but what about -- obviously, the alcohol does not help, but i know you've got questions about the story which she told us that she braves she may have -- believes she may have possibly blacked out. you're saying don't necessarily believe that. but why? >> well, how can you have a blackout when you've blacked out at the time for the last two weeks you've been describing your baby in the crib asleep, alive and healthy? now, two weeks later you say that you blacked out at that time, and you really put her down at 6:40. you know, o.j. simpson after all emotion and common sense took
over, when emotion died and the evidence mounted up, o.j. simpson was cornered to a place where if he was going to get anybody to listen to him and he wanted to write a book, he said if i did something and i was there, i probably blacked out. megyn: why do you think -- >> this is the blackout defense. megyn: why would she say, why would she now say she blacked out when she didn't, why would she intentionally lie in that fashion? >> she's cornered on the 6:40, she put the baby down at 6:40. if she doesn't say she blacked out or she doesn't say that she was some way incapacitated, then she has to answer questions about that time period, and that time period -- and i focus the nucleus of this time period thousand in this investigation is 10:30 p.m. that night. it's the one that she picked to account for the baby's life. it would be the nucleus if i was the detective on this, that this is the point that something happened to the baby. whether she was injured, killed,
megyn: controversy caught on video, students at a texas public high school reciting the mexican pledge of allegiance and national anthem. one girl refusing to participate, instead recording the images you see here. trace gallagher has the story. >> reporter: it's an intermediate spanish class, the teacher was raised in the mention r mexico, so the assignment was the dress up in mexico's colors, red, white and green, and then recite the pledge of allegiance and sing
the national anthem. well, a sophomore who took this video refused saying in her view, learning spanish has nothing to do with reciting pledges to mention or being loyal to mexico. here's her reasoning today on "fox & friends." play this. >> i felt in my heart that i knew it was wrong because, you know, this is america, and this is unconstitutional, and nobody should be doing that in the united states. i mean, in this iraq if you do the pledge of allegiance, they, like, they won't tolerate it at all, so why are we doing it here? why are we tolerating it? >> >> reporter: when she first total her dad about this -- told her dad about this, he department -- didn't believe her. the district says there's nothing wrong with this, that the state law requires they do some cultural education. and the district said, and i'm quoting here, my mind, it's no different from memorizing a poem or a passage from shakespeare. well, the dad vehemently opposed that saying that's not true.
in fact, he said our kids don't even know the american national anthem, and here we are teaching them to memorize and perform the national anthem in mexico. well, the 15-year-old brenda was then given a new assignment instead of that one, but the rest of the class is continuing on that assignment even as we speak, megyn. megyn: back when i was in spanish class, you had to learn the alphabet. remember? and they called me maria. >> makes sense. [laughter] megyn: thanks, trace. >> reporter: from now on we'll call you maria. megyn: because there's no spanish equivalent for megyn. and i don't think there is for trace either. well, hard turn here. a woman accused of holding -- this story is so disturbing. this is so disturbing. four mentally disabled people hostage and then stealing their money. that's, apparently, why she did it. but it gets much worse, and we've got the details in three minutes.
and president obama calling out the gop, seeming to suggest they're just too dumb to understand his jobs plan. is that the hope and change he promised? our panel debates. [cheers and applause] wak ♪ ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole gin oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. [ inner voice ] establish connection. give me voice control. applications up. check my email and text messages. hands in position. airbags. ten of 'em. perfect. add blind spot monitor. 43 mpg, nice. dependability. yeah. activate dog. a bigger dog.
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megyn: explosive new details coming in on a basement dungeon. welcome to a new hour of "america live." i'm megyn kelly. four malnourished, mentally disabled adults found chained to a boiler in this philadelphia house of horrors. police say they were being held captive by a woman who was collecting and using their social security checks. now they are look for other victims after discovering documents from 50 other people. the prime suspect having been convicted of starving a man to
death in 1951. trace gallagher has more. >> reporter: this is the owner of the build hog discovered this. he went down to the basement and noticed there was a lot of trash. and there was a dog barking on the other side of the door if it was a 6 x 10 boiler room and there were four people that were actually chained and in pain. the police then were called to the scene. here is what the police commissioner said. >> it's just baffling that another human being could treat people this way. when you look at conditions under which they were kept. it's something out of a dungeon actually. to know that you would take advantage of a fella like this, it makes you sick. there is no other way to describe it. >> reporter: police arrested this woman. 51-year-old linda weston.
they uncovered documents like driver's licenses, social security cards and filled out forms, powers of attorney giving her access to these people's money. police believe the four people chained in the basement were taken from texas to florida, then to philadelphia. now police are widening their probe to see if there are more people being held. linda west on convicted of suffering a man to death in a closet in 1981. she beat him with a hammer. she fed him twice in three months and disposed of his body in an abandoned home. she served 8 years in prison for that. now police are investigating other victims. they think she'll be in prison a lot longer this time around. megyn: one of those victims was a disabled man named herbert
knowles. his grandmother said she knew something was wrong when her grandson vanished three years ago. >> i knew somebody was holding him. if people tell him something he would believe it. i tried to get him to not have that confidence in people. everybody was his friend. megyn: none of the victims were from philadelphia, leading investigators to believe they were trafficked across state lines and continually moved around. now to the campaign trail where the issue is theft. a thief or thieves stealing the presidential teleprompter and presidential seal and audio equipment. authorities have recovered the
truck. but his who-dun-it is far from over. what do we know? >> jay carney was asked about this when talking to reporters on the president's bus in north carolina. he said all he knew about it was what he read in media reports and they are not concern about the items inside that truck from a national $security viewpoints. the truck was recovered in a hotel parking lot near richmond airport. we don't know if anything inside was kept by the thieves for they knew the truck carried presidential equipment. the president in the middle of a three-day bus tour selling his jobs plan. even though he's in a bus, his equipment for various appearances travels by truck. that includes the sound equipment and podium marked with the presidential seal. the truck carried $200,000 worth
of equipment for an appearance in chesterfield, virginia. the secret service is not directly involved in this kinds of logistics. but the defense agency put out a statement saying a government vehicle was stolen and has been recovered. no classified or sensitive information was in the vehicle. we take since don't such as this very seriously and the formal investigation is continuing in coordination with the relevant law enforcement agencies. we don't know hot suspects might be. no arrests have been made. there have been thefts involving white house property in the past, but this is the first time we know about a truck that's been stolen. megyn: president obama kicked off that bus tour with strong words for congressional republicans. even joking about their intelligence when it comes townsing the jobs bill. >> this week i'm asking members
of dong -- we are going to break up my jobs bill. maybe they couldn't understand the whole thing at once. so we are going to break it up into bite-size pieces. so they can take a thoughtful approach to this legislation. megyn: republicans responded quickly saying the tone and the trip are doing little to help the effort to create jobs. a fair and balanced debate in just a bit. a fox news alert on a big story in the middle east. in just last hour the israelly soldier returned to his home in gaza. the first wave set free today in exchange for lad for gilad
shalit. >> reporter: one of the palestinian prisoners released was a creator of the hamas military wing in the 1980s. he called for more israeli soldiers to be kidnapped to security release of more palestinian prisoners. hamas says multiple armed con voice were certain out this morning so israeli intelligence surveilling the skies wouldn't be able to decipher gilad shalit's exact location. when he was asked about his fir moments out of captivity. this was his response. sight was long years. i was thinking i'm going stay for many many more years. a little under half of the prisoners being released today won't be allowed to return to
their homes in the west bank. they will be exiled to gaza, qatar and turkey. the founder of hamas' military wing kidnapped and killed israeli civilians. in a she vick truth prisoners along with the leaders of hamas made their way to the center of the gaza strip to join 200,000 people in celebration. within the past hour shalit's father says his son is suffering from malnutrition and lack of sunlight. megyn: cops park a truck in a bad neighborhood with cameras and the crook still gets away.
who will be smiling when tonight's debate is done and who has the most to lose. some answers after this break. the parents of missing baby lisa irwin told me the intruders who they believe took their baby also took their cell phones. did police track those cell phones? and what did they find? a "kelly's court" investigation. when the police tell you a call was made from your phone at:30 in the morning or thereabouts, your response is? that's not possible? >> right. ok, people. show me the best way to design a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately.
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no one in the house was hurt. but the homeowner would like to know why the police did not deactivate the bait truck in time. the thief is still on the loose. big night tonight in politics. all eyes are on the 7 presidential hopefuls taking the stage in las vegas. a new republican debate bringing new challenges for the frontrunners and those hoping to stay competitive. we have seen the rise of herman cain and the struggles of rick perry. what can we expect to see tonight. chris, when we did the fox news debate a couple weeks ago we thought the stakes were high for rick perry and we anticipated he would come out swing and it would be an important night for him to take the lead. city the wound up being something very different for
him. what dose have at stake tonight and he is the one with the most on the line? >> he was swing when he was on our stage and he missed. he went hard after mitt romney and looked bad because he couldn't connect. and he demonstrated he wasn't ready for prime time. that was a collective conclusion that conservative republican electorate looking for their alternative to the more moderate mitt romney. they said this guy is not ready and their gaze fell upon herman cain. and his star started rising that night and has continued to go up unabated. now the question for herman cain is, can he make it stick. can he show he has the true believer conservative credentials they can count on and the testing begins in ernest right now. megyn: obviously rick perry has
fallen in the polls, but that doesn't mean he's out. could he be if he has a dismal performance tonight or a lackluster one. >> if rick perry does not come out as brit hume was saying earlier today, demonstrate that he has something to say. it's not enough to say mitt romney is too liberal or texas has a lot of jobs. he has to look engaged. if you look at how he was talking you to and the other moderators at the fox die bait and the bloomberg debate he seemed disengaged. he has to show the republican conservative faithful that he's more than somebody who just talks about texas jobs and beat up on mitt romney. megyn: who is meaning any still in this race on the gop side. based on your political experience could lock this up? >> well, you can't count out
newt gingrich because it's a strong debate performer. he has a following. and in perry's fall there has been some begin accrued by newt gingrich. but beyond that it starts to get pretty dim looking for those folks out there. with the campaigns being moved up, we are going have ballots cast, we'll have votes cast in 11 week or less. if new hampshire moves up you are talking about 7 weeks. if you look at a michele bachmann or rick santorum or john huntsman. how do they get it going from here? it's an open question. megyn: herman cain was 4% and now he's a front runner. according to the latest rasmussen poll is beating president obama. >> i would manage a goat named billy if you put him out there with a republican among a poll of likely voters would do well
against president obama. that's a vote that says anybody but obama. whether that hold up when the president gets his base solidified. the president spent $87 million on his reelection campaign already, and there are hundreds of millions more to be spent. he's on the trail in swing states trying to put republicans on the defensive. megyn: how long do these folks stay tonight. the people you don't think have a chance. some people want lucrative speak contracts. some want book sales. how long do they stay in it? >> nobody stops running for president just because they can't win. they stop running because they can't afford it or it's interfering with somer part of their life that's more important. for these folks that probably starts in pretty close to thanksgiving. i would say in the next month you start to see those folks ask themselves, if i can't do this am i starting to eat into the
other aspects of my life? you can keep a campaign on the road relatively cheaply. all you have to do is buy hotel rooms and plane tickets. but at a certain point you reach diminishing returns. megyn: the pressure has been on governor perry in particular. yet performance has been the same range. so we'll see if there is a big difference in particular for him tonight. thanks so much. chris stirewalt. it's every celebrity's worst nightmare. now it's a reality for salena gomez. while the young singer, actress and girlfriend of justin bieber is facing death threats. if you build it they will come. in three minutes one dad temperatures fight against the regulators telling him to tear down the tree house he built for his son or else.
wizards. big battle in virginia over the tree house a man built in his backyard. a zoning board in fairfax county ordering the army dad to 8 down saying he violated zoning regulations despite paying thousands of dollars in building permit fees. he paid permit fees an still has to tear it down? report are's an army aviation specialist. he was making a commitment to his sons. he would build them a tree house after he got back from iraq. so because he lives up to his commitment. he got home from iraq. he asked fairfax county, did he need a permit? he said no. he spent $1,400 on materials. it's got a slide, ropes, shingles to match the house. he spending six weeks building it. here is dad. >> it fits in the neighborhood.
it's part of raising children. it's what's expected in a single bedroom community. >> reporter: except not everybody thinks it fits. somebody complained. zoning came out and they said because he lives on a corner lot it's a zoning violation and he had to 8 down. he's fighting it. he spent $1,800 in new plans and zoning fees. but before that hearing he has to fulfill 9 requirements to save the tree house including to make sure the tree house will be in harmony with the intended spirit and purpose of the ordinance and will not be contrary to the public interest. >> you want to shake somebody's lapel and say get real. of all the things you have to worry about, it is a heartbreaker. you hope at the end of the day there is a happy end to this movie and john wayne gets to step up and kiss the girl or at
least go down a slide. >> reporter: he has a november 30 hearing. he says if he loses they can't afford to fight any longer. he will tell his sons, you know what, boys? we fought the good fight and we lost. megyn: it will be a bit after civics lesson for them. brand-new charges of election fraud, ones that date back to the hotly contested democratic presidential primary in 2008. fears some signatures may have been forged for key petitions for then candidate obama. the president taking his jobs plan on the road. but some same the trip to crucial swing states smacks of campaigning when the president is blasting republicans saying they are too dumb to understand the jobs bill. >> maybe they couldn't understand the whole thing all at once. so we are going to break it up
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obama and hillary clinton were forged. in the president's case they say without those signatures there are questions about whether he would have been on the ballot at all. report report election fraud was obvious. far reaching and apparently systemic. so says the 22-year-old college student who uncovered troubling allegations of fraud in the presidential primary that touches on the obama and hillary clinton bids in the last presidential election. prosecutors investigating indiana's 2008 presidential primary in st. joseph county in the northern part of the state. 150 signatures may have been faked on the obama and clinton petitions together. so many it raises the question about whether or not the obama campaign even had enough legitimate signatures to get on the ballot in the first place. former governor of indiana says the name and signature on the
petitions were fakes. the alleged scheme was found out by a yale university junior who inteshed at the obama white house last year. he uncovered the alleged election fraud while interning at the political newsletter. >> what's important to me is this sort of thing not occur in the future. this happened with impugnity because no one thought they would get caught. it's likely no one would catch them because no structural safeguard existed to insure this wouldn't occur. >> reporter: the republican party and democratic party chairmen support the investigation. they will look to see if the feds at the department of justice will take over this investigation. he says he pursued the
wrongdoing because in his words election fraud undermined the integrity of our election process and our very democracy. if you know of election fraud we want to know about it. megyn: new reaction to president obama's bus tour through three crucial swing states. states they say he must win if he wants to win his reelection. the president is hitting the road to sell his jobs plan to the american people. critics say the visits resemble campaign stops and do little to help job creation, especially when he uses the podium to slam the republicans who blocked his jobs bill. >> this week i'm asking members of congress to vote -- what we are going to do is break up my
jobs bill. maybe they couldn't understand the whole thing all at once. so we are going to break it up into bite-size pieces so they can take a thoughtful approach to this legislation. megyn: turning now to discuss it, leslie marshall and indicated radio host lars larson. the cite civil of this is it looks like campaigning, it sounds like campaigning and in the course of the effort to promote the jobs bill he takes a shot at the intelligence of the republicans. it may or may not have been a joke. but the point is is it aproper dwroot say they didn't understand it. we are good to have to breaker it up into bite-size pieces so they can take a thoughtful approach. maybe they didn't study it properly. maybe they didn't know what they were voting against. >> he found somebody new to blame for his troubles. he was blaming bush. now he's got to blame his own
party, too, because they voted against it or. there was no support for the jobs bill it many the president who is out of touch with america. he doesn't understand america knows another $1.5 trillion in tax increases won't do it. borrowing for a phoney baloney jobs plan won't do it. i'm still just stunned at the idea of fake documents behind the obama presidency. megyn: you had to go there. leslie. let's talk about it. it's not the first time that the president has sort of suggested or top democrats suggested that the reason somebody is against their policy is because they are too dumb, basically to understand how much good they would do for the american people. we saw that during the healthcare debate. i think it's fine for a path or politicians to take shots at other rivals. but are they also insulting the american people who share the
partisanship of the rivals they are insulting? >> i don't think he was meaning it as an insult. i think was meaning it as a joke, tongue and cheek. this happens on the campaign trail. any time the president opens their mouth whether left or right or up for reelection, they are campaigning. whether they are at the white house, on the lawn more a swing state. the bottom line is that the president needs for the american people to hear from him not from his critics or even those who support him why he is pushing this, wait even tails and how he differs from the republicans. because sometimes the american people don't hear what the republicans want to do, is they want to give more power, removing regulations from wall street, and as we see there are thousands of people who are angry with those on wall street right now. i think it's essential whether he uses the jokes or not that he's clearly distinguishing how he differs from the republicans and showing america he is not
the one being devisive he is being accused of being by republicans. megyn: the polls show that the majority of americans are in favor of this jobs bill but he can't get it through because he doesn't have the right votes to get a vote on it in the senate. why shouldn't he get out there and start pointing the finger? >> how about pointing at his own party? it languished for weeks with one member of congress who was willing to put his name on it. harry reid puts it in. five senate democrats said we are not going to have anything to do with there is. we don't believe in it. if you ask americans in polls, are you in favor of something that will put people back to work, in general people are going to say yes. but when you get into the details and find out it's really just to pad the pockets of unions around the country and to shore up local governments, states and cities that can't
afforders they have got on. so the president says i'll borrow the money for you and ship it out to your states. that will be popular with the unions. but i don't think it average american thinks the government needs to dig its way into more debt. megyn: when we were debating the healthcare bill. the american people were aagainst it overwhelmingly. the number was well over 50% that they were against it. nonetheless, the president pushed it through and did some procedural maneuvering in the congress. now the american people are for the ini tough he's pushing. now he's saying you are the bofs congress. they weren't the boss of congress when he was pushing the healthcare bill. now the republicans are doing a 180. they say when you break it down they won't be. it seems so opportunististic.
>> they say you do it so much better than we do. >> . megyn: she is paying you a compliment. >> yes, she is. >> for the president to say -- i think it's essential because there is a fear on both sides that voters are going to stay home. that we are not going to seat turnout we have seen in past elections. and perhaps more so on the left. i know democrats are concerned about that. i think what the president is saying is, we do care about your opinion. we didn't his town on healthcare. we hair, jobs, jobs, jobs. i have got this jobs plan. pick up the phone and get out there and vote. megyn: might he motivate some people on the right when he's suggesting you are too stupid to understand how good this will be for you? >> it's difficult to take a guy who hasn't done much of anything on jobs in the first three years, even thought it's suppose to be his focus. he jumps on his multi million
dollar taxpayer turned bus on his campaign swing and says i'm here get more jobs for you. he's here to save his job. i don't think he cares if he save anybody else's job. he hasn't for the past 3 1/2 years. he's worried about one job. >> where was your jobs bill? with the wmds? mitch mcconnell said what is the goal of the republican party. to unseat this president. the fact that you guys wouldn't even vote. megyn: lars and leslie, thank you. the numbers are in and they are not pretty. the federal government just wrapping up with a big spend year. in fiscal year 2011 we spent 9.8 billion a day.
$410 million an hour. $6.8 million a minute and. that's a lot of spending. attention shoppers. there is a gear cub in the produce section. wait until you see how this thing ends. look at him. but they are worried. plus the parents of missing baby lisa irwin telling me their cell phones were stolen on the same night they say their daughter was abducted. did police track those cell phones? where to? you will heart answers next. and we'll tell you where the parents say the police claimed they picked up pings from the phones. at "kelly's court" investigation next. >> we were told by a law enforcement source there was a call on your phone at 2:30 a.m. was that you? >> no, i was sleeping.
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megyn: "kelly's court" is back in session. on the docket today, mission cell phones. her parents sitting down with me for a two-hour interview sunday. they say their cell phones were stolen by the same person who took their daughter. cell phones are easily raiseable normally because they send track information to the closest tower. >> we were told by a law enforcement source there was a call on your phone at around 2:30 a.m. was that you? >> no. i was sleeping. megyn: who could that have been? >> whoever took her. >> don't know. megyn: when you knew the phones were mission along with lisa,
did you try to call your cell phones? >> no, we didn't even realize she was gone until 4:00 a.m. they didn't tell me they were used. i said i don't know, i can't give an answer to that because i wasn't there, i don't have them. megyn: when police tell you a call was made from your phone at 2:30 in the morning your response is that's not possible? >> right. megyn: had the police told you -- they can locate cell phones with the ping. they they told you anything about finding the location of the phones? >> they showed a picture and said this is what we know -- this is a ping. tried to conduct this interview, you did this type of thing. and i'm like, no. megyn: did they say where the ping was coming from? >> no. megyn: where in town north state or out of the state?
>> they said it was close by. megyn: do you think the police are lying to you? >> yeah, they are supposed to. megyn: to get a confession? >> of course. they are not going to tell us. you know, we asked them, do you have any leads, do you have any information. they are going to say no or they are going to say we are on to something. but they won't tell you specifically what. no his do that. megyn: joining me now former possible cue eastern cohost of "the five" kimberly guilfoyle and fox news analyst lis weihl. you are both former prosecutors. is she right. do the police lie in interrogations and just make things up saying a phone call was made from your phone at 2:30 in the morning when that is not true. we found pings on your phone at the following location when in fact that is not true? >> they can lie, they allowed to
lie under the constitution. the supreme court ruled on that. but for a mother to say they are supposed to lie to me. have you ever heard that? that is shocking. >> i don't think that's shocking. >> around mother and supposedly you lost your child. megyn: she knows she is going to be a suspect. she is going say of course they will try to manipulate. >> in the age of the csi case you hear about police giving a ruse. they will say we heard you had information from this person or you made this call or met with this person. isn't sit true you were seen in this have it. that's commonplace. it is legally acceptable. that doesn't bother me as much with her. megyn: how much stock do you put in there? we followed the pings like near by. but they haven't been able -- do you believer that could be a ruse and maybe we shouldn't put too much stock in that.
>> they are suppose to visibility having a wide scope in terms of looking for someone. but what you have to do to believe her story is a stranger came in or neighbor whomever came in when she was passed out drunk where the husband was way. took lisa and took the cell phones sitting on the kitchen counter. megyn: if you are baby napping maybe you think about that. we cued up the sound. i want the viewers to hear it. one of the oddest moment in the interview was the following when i asked her whether they called the cell phones. watch it. have you tried to call those phones since then? >> no, i thought doing my reason investigative work, i thought about calling you have and demanding they give me the phone record to give me whatever. but no, i don't want to upset
what they are doing. >> affect what they are doing? you want to be able to call. you wouldn't just think about maybe i'll ask them to do this. if you would be in their face, making the calls. megyn: could you not call. this person has her cell phone and her baby. and she hasn't called the cell phone. >> your first instinct would be let me call the cell phone. the rest of what she receives is believable. she doesn't want to jeopardize and get too involved in the investigation. they are not going to turn over record to her. megyn: i get that. maybe it many just me. but as a mother, you would pick up your phone, call -- somebody's phone and call your phone and say -- see what happens. maybe somebody would answer and ask for a ransom. >> as your instinct as a mother
you would do that. megyn: she is a young woman, 25. she dropped out of high school in 11th grade. she is not sophisticated when it comes to the techniques of law enforcement. might she be so terrified she'll step on the toes of law enforcement? don't be calling or doing anything. >> what we would do. i had a case where my brother's house was burgized. i said a call was made. there was certain information they couldn't give me. you have to get a search warrant. there are limited things she can do. the fact that these phones were taken to me is strong evidence that perhaps there was an intried, somebody that went in to burgize this home. saw the crime of opportunity. was casing the place, knew she would sit out on the steps with her friend and took that opportunity. megyn: maybe saw that she was drinking. >> they didn't take it pacifier or anything for lisa. you have all the common sense,
megyn: i want to pick up with this clip in which i talked to her about the lights. watch this exchange. let's talk about those lights. that's another bizarre piece of the story. you remember turning them off when you went to bed. >> i was told you turned them off. megyn: by whom? >> the neighbors. megyn: which ones were on. >> a lamp in the front living room. two lights not kitchen.
-- two lights in the kitchen. the accent lights and the plug-in pumpkin were on in the computer room. megyn: more than you would expect? >> more than i would expect. >> he chases me around the house turning off lights. i can't leave on anything except for the light above the stove. megyn: do you remember going around turning them off that night? >> i don't remember doing that. megyn: your only reason to turn them off is the neighbor telling you she saw them off. >> exactly. megyn: what did you make of her affect in that exchange? >> why the nervous news. >> you are not asking an emotional question. you are asking a factual question. no, i don't, but the neighbors said the lights were off. the husband takes off and he's factual and precise. then she starts getting so
nervous. there seems to be some energy behind the lights. megyn: it can be that she is uncomfortable because she doesn't know because she blacked out. >> he gets mad at me because that something we talked about. megyn: is it possible this woman did something to this baby and was so good about hiding the evidence that the police can't find it? they can't find the baby? >> you will think she is some kind of criminal mastermind and she planned this to give her baby to someone for cash and goes through all of these match machinations. megyn: or the baby walked out the door with somebody, we don't know who. that's why they haven't found a body. >> the dogs are able today to track. and none of that was found at the scene.