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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  April 17, 2020 12:30am-1:00am CEST

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occupied the city center to. president george bush sponsored. this is not the kind of freedom that new. how did morality become a gateway to islamic terror. an exclusive report from a destroyed city. in the sights of fire starts may 20th on g.w. . the war is ugly more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 2050 i would not give up the future of my children and their children so you can sleep at night they have to come and puff piece suit year after year the war in yemen goes on with no apparent end in sight but who's really trying to stop it my guest this week here in munich is the country's foreign minister mohammad abdullah dreamy after many thousands of
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civilian casualties and the enormous human suffering all being from nothing. to hold a gun i have to really welcome covert so thank you for having me you have much to say about the violence that the who fees and human rights violations that they've committed but you appear to have almost nothing to say about the shocking casualties and bombings by the saudi led coalition that's killed many thousands of your civilians why is that well that's not accurate actually you know the war is ugly i'm not. even going to sugarcoat that for you or for anyone a lot of civilians are that yes this is this is shocking of and you hear the news and you know it's a big campaign but there's a difference between having human shields like that who these or some mistakes that
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happen in every conflict in every campaign and the suit is no different picture no that human rights are being massively violated by coalition forces but to look the other way which means going to a certain extent your complicity in this something to well i'm not sure what you mean by looking the other way we have this giant which is an investigation body that has investigated over 170 claims we know there's some mistakes we prove that there are some mistakes some of them i want to talk about you know i got an old load of but but since march 2015 according to human rights watch become aleutian has conducted numerous indiscriminate and disproportionate strikes killing thousands of civilians hitting civilian structures in violation of the laws of war but you turn away and there's us about how horrible let me put it on record this is horrible killing any civilians in yemen is horrible we want to end this war killing the even one life let alone a child which happened even by coalition let me finish so why go on with
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indiscriminate and disproportionate attack it ok this is a big campaign right and there are some mistakes and we approve of we know that some business more than some wenzel i think the u.n. need to investigate more and we know it's you know this thousands and thousands are circling and that if there's an airstrike a mistake everybody's reporting a part and they should report apart we should hear about it but there's a lot of mistakes that the host is and i'm not here to talk about the who he's on the coalition's having mistakes i want in this war i'm from san am from those territories my family says that we're sick of it and we need to end it and just blaming now the coalition for and for all these will not end the war we need to end it yes we do we want to stop the killing even though i don't. style of work why do so many civilians have to die for the sake of saving a chaotic divided government such as yours which barely has legitimacy with the wintry the founder of the little sea for us the gentleness is not popularity i'm
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from a different country than the president but the president is the last effected president 6 and a half 1000000 people elected our president 2012 for 2 years where he will to use his mandate run out of his moments i now go to ease and tell that we have a democratic system that we allow this to elect a new president who's going to give us and who decides what a democratic so yeah. exactly to get many people and who would do that those who would like that ok i'm not going to allow you or anyone to tell me you have to choose this leader to get you out of this week ok let me for a lead and we need to get out of it we don't want to be there for life that's why we actually had the revolution back in 2011 most of the worst thing about the bombings is that in all these years they have proved absolutely futile you have won nothing and the who through this remain unchanged so the catastrophic injuries and deaths among the civilian population have been very like you haven't spent a change in the way the coalition has been conducting this war there's no more
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campaign to actually targets and other cities they've been sometimes some of the escalations with the who it is and the sudanese renard involved in them and then it didn't happen because we know we need to end this what i we need to part how to end this war we you know everything that happens in yemen is a reaction to the who things actions we could be and some i'm one week if they just do the right thing and they're i think it's not hard to do and why don't we ask that when we actually answer that question more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 2015 the lives were sacrificed for a stalemate proxy war that created the world's largest humanitarian disaster you really believe your government is worth that horrendous human i believe our future is worth the. fighting not the behavior which without you can go the future without trying i could resign even today not tomorrow you know what if you know the who thiis and few know their ideology if you know that they don't want to have this
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under medicaid who has a figure nobody could at that buffer zone and then we'll have a puppet government they want we will not accept that i will not give up the future of my children and their children so you can sleep at night you know it is my country my people are dead they are dying every day you expect me to just to saddle for any peace that would explode in our face any time in the future no i'm not going to consider that with these i'm from the territories i am of the we don't approve of what they do and they have to come and park peace soon and we have to actually send the right signals to do that they have these illusions of power that you and others would feed in but as i say they're called action has to go where the coalition would end if we end the war but not before that if they end if the coalition ends yemen with descend into more chaos it's not about 1 eroticism either government or the president how the stays in power is about as they have in yemen from the us that you talk about the investigations that have gone on into what you term euphemistically mistakes in most cases you're not going to find the
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perpetrators and bring them to justice are you we know that 3 attacks on civilians several years ago are being referred by investigators for possible prosecution just 3 out of countless bombing strikes that have repeatedly this civilian infrastructure shingles are busy thousands of change and let me put it in a should change should it's not changing look i let me put it for the record and he civilians or that those responsible wherever they are they should be hold accountable they should be but they will be and you know it factors previous investigations don't encourage up when we do have our own investigations and when we know what we were some for show 3 that's what mistaken 3 and i say come in many many years to get. started or we could classify what you think the facts i mean yes . civilians are dead this is horrible we do the investigations but we need peace we need peace i mean we're talking about having peace and it's not easy you know the thing is you want to get away from the subjects numbers to go to now because they
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did not let me let me just begin to national slowly just if these international justice unfortunately sometimes don't come hand in hand we have to have peace and then we'd have transitional justice afterwards to get all this done you're the one who's refusing talks with the hoof if that's what you think of it that's what you've said now your ministry of information separate to no no no i represent the foreign policy of we need to park soon however i'm not going to let the horses get off the hook and data we went to sweden and we signed it the they came back one year they haven't done anything to prove it should i just let them go off the hook and then move on no they have to be responsible not destroying your country piece by piece child by piece of in those terms i am for a structure there is no road and continue with this humanitarian disaster is a documented asking disaster if you think or case and i report let me let me just jump to that why do you think that these are holding it hostage we're open to any for internal flights they're refusing because they want to really this seizure this
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aggression against them and to hold on to power which they don't have who gave them the right to speak and for and behalf of me on behalf of millions if you have a nice and they use or power and they have this illusion of taking us back before 62 will the minister you've dug in your heels the u.n. is seeking unconditional talks unconditional talks between you and the views you've dug in your to your heels and rejected or not or as didn't i didn't who says soap january the 20th the minister of information said we categorically reject any talk about negotiations x. what we said is i am willing to go now to peace or if we're going to talk peace however we need to have the right conditions to god are ok the u.s. wants unconditional talks hala i don't want to go full time. peace so they could have a good report for the student council i want to go and peace to make sustainable peace for yemen and if there are these would sign degrees sign i like what they did in sweden and come back and not implement we should actually hold them accountable
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for implementing something known your cherry bomb go on going then because you won't sit down and know who that is now and you are setting goodish ask around not going to be met and you're ignoring the advice of these are not innovations we're just we're just saying they have to implement what this site is that it's really hard to ask we cannot just go on by them signing up courts and not implementing anything you know what we did back in 2014 we had a peace deal just a few days after the coup 2 days after the call it was the partnership a peace agreement you know what they agreed to be agreed to partnerships but the security measures they never talked about it why aren't you talking about that i mean it is there you want me to i want to again about would you are responsible for most that i understand there are no angels in war but according to international investigators your forces have nothing to be proud of last year the un panel of experts on yemen accused all sides in the war of committing a reflective uses from arbitrary killings to rape and torture with impunity so not
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only have you not won this war you also lots to me claims about my moral ground haven't you a mind going to claim were angels nobody has we just need to end the 2 i am i can tell you it's a long way from being in this government government especially etudes those is not actually deterring forcibly disappeared scores of people we have no respect for the rule of law we do we do but sometimes it's really hard to control everything i can tell you but it's not systematic killing of the only people like you want to show it to be you know you can just talk about 2 sides have you been to yemen have you been to santa have you been to i didn't have you been to her didn't matter if you listen to the people themselves and that you can't just brush everything as as as you know she has in a divided as a rich countries fighting a poor country that is not the way to. and this one we know there's some atrocities happened i mean we are a few you know a few miles from from just that we know what history is like why continue to block a vital aid goods and fuel from coming into this is a measure of good this is
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a good question we're not actually doing so what we did is we're trying to block the oil shipments that come from iran to the who the social rights will go wrong have been the latest report they say that basically the saudi led coalition's restriction on imports have worsened the humanitarian that is we're not sure and let me tell you why if you were you know what we said as he did i was open we were a few kilometers from the port the humanitarian came in the u.n. says we can't do this we said fine let's go to sweden and we need to change this out of school one year it's nothing have it let me go over there to the question the questions that we had actually holding for the rest of this is not true we have reports from the u.n. power doesn't say that you're probably not going to mention that shipments of iranian oil coming with counterfeit documents today for free you know we said by the crease 75 let's just check the papers here saying let me just give me just finish and then i'll hear you we just said let's just check the papers the papers came the who he is hold hostage and asked every mercians not to submit the papers
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so they could get to phony shipments so who's holding that and then we can see that we never go there right mr minister human rights watch is saying the coalition has delayed and diverted fuel tankers closed critical ports and stopped goods from entering who controlled seaport what is the usual thing and i just finished fuel needed to power generators stars because and pump water to homes has also how in stock how do you justify preventing not just a chance but when i was justifying preventing anything in the past few months have been more fuel than that and in the previous 3 months or so you checked the statistics and we're talking more than 2 years ago the u.n. high commissioner for human rights big both you and the rebels to let splays of food. and to the country all parties to the conflict so the panel of experts on yemen have obstructed the distribution of humanitarian assistance the high commissioner beg do you. have mercy on the people of your fire is this going
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when you actually need to show mercy on your own people we give you something you know what i don't like something about the un is that they call everyone when they know exactly who's making the problem let me just give you an example a few days ago they had a meeting and brussel about the charter is that the who these are doing to the humanitarian field you know they're want to tax your taxpayers' money that comes to yemen so they could steal it and not justify where they went i ask again sue is this $1.00 of those not more there's one to see in a neutral party you don't want to say ok i am willing to receive any criticism but don't say all the parties tell me what i did wrong and i'll fix it but you have to point fingers also at the truth is point a finger at me and also point forward at the whole thing you cannot just paragraph there go of bad point to change you live in those that it was clear to them now i know what i do and we are trying to struggle as i said to you earlier government affiliated forces arbitrarily deterring forcibly disappeared schools of people when
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you say mistakes happen in war they fancy excuse no i mean we i mean give me specifics and we would actually fix them i'm not saying them where you haven't read the report but i have read their own experts yes yes and there are plenty of serious a very serious repudiates it was done so by as the very 1st reports so it is like you have killers in the well being fired or quit we're talking about different everybody who violates human rights accuses the ideas of that but mostly by just be more specific so we can know what we talk about we have an expert group which is the u.n. and our panel accordingly that is actually following this recount of the committees are not even let it get to santa we believe whatever they say and whatever this is not biased we will check if we have mistakes would. there's another really experts to come from the human rights council the 1st really the 1st report was so by it just took exactly from the propaganda of the who think and we look the no we said
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you can't just have and factual checks you have to check them before you report it and then you can just say you know hello everyone let me let me give you some facts 20100 strokes on the island by the coalition forces since the war began an average of 12 attacks a day these are tax have blown up hospitals school buses markets mosques farms bridges factories when to turn chicken centers coalition air strikes the un human rights commission said in 2017 coalition airstrikes continue to be the leading cause of child casualties as well as overall civilian casualties so he didn't know what he was talking about as much luck we you i said national for human rights they have no idea what they're saying is that happen and i told you before but you have to believe a penalty more than this you have to be clear on the report now it's a policy of you can't using civilian infrastructure other pilots so incompetent that they can't tell the difference to muffle up in a man with. f. it happens then we can then that we would continue years later that if you are half
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your life you will point out for what they are doing we need to make peace we don't want to continue this war and we have to do it a few just weeks ago a few days ago they destructed hospitals it's not right but we don't want just to dwell on it we want to know what is now required to make peace and i know what is required to make peace we need to crack the illusions talk that joking is required or it is about talking ok this is going to end as a negotiating table otherwise surely it won't be changed and the sooner it gets there the better and the moment you know what it is and prevent those one in return and including the who these no one needs to be done we debated it for 100 days in kuwait and you know what happened at the end they changed their mind you know why because they know that they would have. the thing if they don't sign and fortunately the international community especially some parties send them the rock singers that maybe if you just hold on to take in yemen hostage you would get a bit of the if that's what happened and that's what we need to close the last year
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as well as fighting the who 3 rebels you became embroiled in another civil war this time with forces in the south known as the transitional council so not only are you failing to beat the who feels you can't even keep your own side together and you cannot another group that is about that if it was not a great record now let me talk about that as a precaution what happened myself is another complication that is not worth something of course you know and they want to secede determined to succeed on the comp of complication what it is it won't of it's really hard to discuss something without really prompted those just in a word is actually happening if the s.t.c. our brothers and the f.c.c. really really represent all sufferance it would be an easy problem to solve the s.t.c. have a problem with southrons themselves not with the f.c.c. is s.t.c. is just units outside of the control of the government that i've been beefing up with another and of evidence and then eventually they decided in august to ask the
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government for not a 2nd capital that cannot happen and we made it clear to the un against a relative and it was only the saudis that patch together the agree i agree you called the riyadh agreement that's not working oh there is when it is not working because there are some intransigence and we believe this at least will be a on all sides no and the s.t.c. sides and we could prove it we have the facts we have the metrics that actually explains what we did but you know we have to pass that you've given away a lot to get the 3 agreement term to you basically given these control over major decisions that your government has taken you say no according to the carnegie middle east center several articles of the riyadh agreement emphasize some of the supervision of this new government both vary and the u.a.e. will continue. intervene as they wish in new york in term of that and i know that was the price for your dream and that is not completely out of the price of the reality griminess to get united so we can pick it back and make peace you know you
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can't just have everything perfection is not really a possible way out in yemen and it is actually the enemy of good and that's what we want at the sardar center for strategic studies says that your president hard. to see the southern transitional council have accepted that all major government actions because ordinated by saudi arabia so basically you've solved you know something that is not true i am the compass of the saudi government what you think the foreign minister of yemen and i say a word i believe it is for the right to the yemenis now with the saudis want to know what the emirate is one network anyone wants and that's proven yes rian really aren't we go back to either but we speak our minds and it is our responsibility and decisions we have in the riyadh increment conceded to have some way in actually dealing with the south of the sudanese now that instead of them what are these and we need peace we don't want to fight a war in the northern wall in the south and we know that the f.c.c. is do not represent all this that the whole southron and that that's an issue too
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and they have to know that they cannot just continue being outside the form of the government if we if this government is dissolved you would have more chaos in yemen then you would think it is not as easy as you think let's go last year the saudis actually expelled one of your government advisors to the because what he'd want your size criticized coalition out in the sun i don't know is a diplomat with me he actually came and did something against protocol it's not because he still would have to do anything they don't expel him his chairman ended and we did it from the office because he actually vitalism of the cause of the diplomatic corps now you can't just politicize everything like this i don't think it is right i don't know if i stay for ending the whole matter how do you know he's a diplomat who actually didn't actually respect the rule of law can't conquer about one but he could go back to yemen he could be anywhere else we could go back to
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saudi arabia why not but not as a diplomat it ended. talk to me about corruption go on in your state because it's not enough that there's a huge war the humanitarian disaster it seems that the state money is not being siphoned off in corruption scopes involving the central boke of yemen where is that going where the central bank i am where the report which you're referring to now we have from the u.n. panel of experts just yes of course that's what you're trying to guess you know it's talking about and some paragraph that's true you know i spoke to the prime minister about it we've sacked 2 governors already our books are open anderson youngers coming to an end to actually check the books of the central bank it's open there we are so the burger king being audited for 6 years i asked the prime minister of this report why don't you just let the panel going check the books you know what he said didn't ask to go and check now anderson young and come in to check if we have some mistakes if we have some corruption charges we will be ready to act upon them we're transparent common check them send them in the team you want
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to do so we need to end this war we don't want to continue yes there's some corruption i'm not going to deny it so we need to end it and we're going to crack any cases if you if you just fight them i mean just point them at us and we will do so you keep saying you want to in this war do you really believe that a single unit true state is going to emerge from the turbot destruction that you and the other combatants of inflicting on the usa something i think we as yemenis need to know what's the difference between and means to approve something and then go you know i'm talking about the massive divisions in the un i'm going to get to that so the goal is to raise up the standards of living of the yemeni people unfortunately some camps would actually create the means which is unity central government does as actually their goal which is wrong you know so we gave the central government to go it didn't work and the national dialogue everyone including the who of the south our friends decided on a federal system let's just given a chance let's just give this for the son
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a chance was. not all of it quite a lot of it know why the law said zoolander said so you know the central no longer the law go along on the rights of the divisions on your interest rates that are sent to you actually quoted have actually sunk paul in the south and not all of them more than 50 percent even 60 percent want to stay in some form of for drug government not not everyone in the south want to secede and even if they know you have a civil war within a civil war that's quite an achievement isn't the it's not a civil war than a civil war there were so few skirmishes back in the south and it's over now skirmishes that kicked you out of aden yes you know we went through other asylum issues and yes but now there's more to the school who was in our than our prime minister just came from adam yesterday and he's gone back and i mean it's not like the whole south of turning against the government he checked the south showed what had been violent and the hedge i mean it is not the case you know the s.t.c. need to know that they have to cooperate to be part of this government they don't they don't have the backing of all the south and those in the south opposed them
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more than those in the new serving need to know they have to cooperate their own well known as a session who said so they did know that is not correct ask i'll do as the others who signed the riyadh agreement i mean it is not correct they want to stay and they said so the southron issue for them not what we say would come after we finish the war with the who thinks and then we can discuss it that's what they say so you know just the facts. oh peace when you were over and world com and we wanted to come but we're not just going to have any peace with the who is you know i'm not going to give the future of a few men to those who believe that they could just you know men and have this defined why to all of us look what they do in iraq we're not going to accept that there is need to know that they could share power that they cannot get to do it with guns facing and you know pointing in our face more hollowed out of the law
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that's very much being more thank you so much for this particular discussion.
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when others give up. natalia keeps on fighting. many russian mothers are in similar situations. their sons have run afoul of the country's arbitrary justice her only hope is protest. and she's not alone. sent to see the bad guys in
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the but. the be. this is deja vu news live from berlin u.s. president donald trump lays out a road map for recovery from the economic pain of the coronavirus troops as a prolonged lockdown would inflict an immense toll on public health he says state governors should take a phased approach to getting things back to normal also coming up. served.

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