tv Capital News Today CSPAN July 10, 2009 11:00pm-2:00am EDT
>> the second report -- a point that this report made was we are training in the united states military, we are training individuals who are already involved in neo-nazi and white supremacist activity. we see on hate websites suggestions that their members join the military and learn how to use c-four plastic explosives.
one not let the government train you? you cannot buy these explosives anywhere else. it is illegal. today, a letter was issued. we asked the chairman of the senate homeland security, mr. lieberman, the chairman of the house committee on hamas security, hon. bennie thompson -- homeland security, hon. denny thompson. the letter was directed to the hon. ike skelton, chair of the house armed services committee. accompanying this letter was about a 400 page burana report backing what we said it was happening. we said, in the wake of several high-profile murders by extremists of the radical right, we urge your committee to investigate the threat posed by racial extremists owho might be
serving in the military to ensure that our own armed forces are not inadvertently training future domestic terrorists. a couple more things -- and i will not review the whole letter because you can pick one up outside this room -- it says, we are not alone in our concerns. in july 2008, the fbi issued a report indicating that the problem of extremists in the military may have worsened. according to the report, reliable sources indicate to premise leaders encouraging followers who lack of committed histories of neo-nazi activities and do not have swastikas on their bodies to infiltrate the military as goatskins in order to receive the training for the benefits of the extremists. we lay out for the homeland security report says and just to indicate some of the things that we found, we gave the postings
on a neilon nottie facebook page -- neo-nazi facebook page, it is called new saxon -- or the period of 40 different postings of military -- new knonewsaxon.. one of them had a favored of the diaries that were the blueprint of the bombing of the federal building by timothy mcveigh. these individuals go on and on in their website, these soldiers, posting their views. one of them said he looked
forward to killing as many bloody sandç as he could find. clearly, they reject this because -- we reject this extremism, but it is an issue that we hope that the u.s. military will take seriously. you know, america is changing, but with this continuing furor over the changing demographics of our country and the collapse of our economy and a backlash against the election, our nation is in a fragile state. but we are not alone. as npr reported last week, the global economic crisis is also fueling far-right politicians in the european countries. still, there are signs of great hope. our latest elections saw the
scheider wing of -- shattering of glass ceilings, whether defined by race or by gender. millions of americans crossed the line for the gah box. for the first time in our history, we show that black-and- white people believe that race relations are generally good in our country. that is a major change because before that, before the election of president obama, about 75% of anglo whites in this country said that race relations were good. and about 25% of blacks thought they were good. that is a change and a hopeful sign. you know, americans of all stripes are very optimistic about president obama and what he can mean for this country.
they undoubtedly are going to be in -- and there are undoubtedly going to be more are acts of violence that we are going to have becomput up with, but i'm convinced that we are not going to go back to the days of when i grew up in segregated alabama, the days that martin luther king founded the civil rights movement with the help of rosa parks and julian bond and so many more people who put their lives at risk. but as dr. martin luther king said in 1963 from the mall here in washington, he says, the arc of the universe may be long, but it bends towards justice. thank you very much. [applause]
>> could you comment on the incident is ago in huntington valley pennsylvania were 68 minority children were asked to leave the zumwinkel and wear white parents -- asked to leave the swimming pool and wear white parents pulled their children out of the pool? >> i am not familiar with the incident, but it sounds like montgomery, alabama in 1955. i cannot say who is right or wrong in that case, but i know that if my parents pulled their children out of the pool because of black students in that pool, it is a tragedy. in 1968, or 67 -- i cannot remember the eight -- the date. i'm getting old. i filed a lawsuit with the ymca to integrate it because the city closed its pools, some twentysomething pools. and a federal court ruled that
the ymca, who had built a large number of schools, could not do as a private organization with the city could do legally as a public entity. i hope the facts are different than your report. >> has the dire economic climate contributed to the recruitment of hate groups? rates are probably answer that question in my top the best i could -- >> i probably answered that question in my talk, but not only could you say the dire economic climate, but those people that you perceive as causing the problem. the latino migration in this country is the biggest engine generating hate crimes in groups. there is a 40% increase in crimes against latinos in 2008 alone. >> america has a long history of
domestic terrorism and, today, is close to 1000 homegrown terrorists groups. why is the publicç interest wih international terrorism groups many times greater than our own terrorists? >> i think the world trade center was quite a tragic event to take place and it led us into the war in afghanistan, and unfortunately, a move into iraq. that is where we are devoting billions of dollars and lives of young people. but during the same time, there are agencies in our government that are true -- tracking domestic terrorism and doing a good job. they are not ignoring them. i will not indicate who these people are, but there are some officials of the u.s. justice department and they are on top of this on a regular basis. i do not think there's a problem of lack of interest.
you do hope that the department of defense will deal with these issues where the u.s. firm is using our taxpayer dollars to train future timothy mcveighs. you know that timothy mcveigh got his training in the u.s. army. >> do you think that the obama administration should establish an office of tolerance and the white house and federal agencies, like president bush's office of faith based initiatives because the nation is faced with an increase in white supremacist activities? >> i do not think that president obama should have an office of acceptance and tolerance because of hate groups and their activities. i think apple -- i think that the whole focus of governments, from state and national and federal levels should be acceptance and tolerance. i do not know that the particular cabinet position is necessary because all aspects of the garment deal with this
subject, whether it is the department of housing, hud, the justice department. we simply need a focus. we need a national "makes it out" day. and -- "mix it up"sday. when people in schools sit together at lunch, it is the first time that they have a chance, many of them, to do this. it should not just be the one day fare. it has to be something that we deal with. back when i was a boy, we would throw trash out the back of a car window without thinking about it. in fact, driving through, and fields, i would throw bottles out and try to hit signs. if i tried to do that today,
susan would stop me, but my grandchildren would, too. we have spent on a lot of time trying to get people to clean up the byways of america. it took a lot of trapping water on iraq to help us clean up the trash in america, this littering our country. we believe we have that same campaign for acceptance and tolerance. it is the same program that some 80,000 schools use and we will one day clean up some of this hate that we have in this country. >> can you tell us a little bit more about the teaching tolerance program and why you do not think it has become mandatory curriculum in public education? >> there is enough fresh -- fish to fry in public education with no child left behind. but just like we should not necessarily have to have acceptance and tolerance as a part of a government, that should be something that should be in an all-inclusive school
community, a school that foster's tolerance along the lines of not just race, but along the lines of sexual orientation and handicap and so many other things. we have approximately half a million teachers at our magazine teaching tolerance. and some people say, why use the word tolerance? we picked tolerance, accepting the differences between people and building on those differences for a better world. that program has been an extremely successful program. we have videos and teaching guides and most of it is on line. it is available to anyone who might be watching or listening today. >> since obama, many say, -- many say that racism is at odds salute issue.
-- obsolete issue. what can the media do? >> as many know, when obama was elected, many said, well, you have a black president now, who has got an excuse? that is easy to say, but it belies the truth in a lot of the country. we still live in a world of a lot of us's ofthem's. some college applications went out and one of the applicants had a name like letitilakisha ad another had a name like amanda. the lakisha's received fewer
acceptances. i think we have a whole new generation that is changing and i do not think we are going to go back. but i'd is good to be a long day -- it is going to be a long day before the color of a person's skin is something that we do not look at. i wake up in the morning and i rarely ever look in the mirror. i've got to think that people of color probably think about the color of their skin probably quite a bit. whether they are in the store, going for a job application, or just meeting someone different. i think this nation, though, is going to overcome these problems. there are those that would not like us to do it. rush limbaugh said he hoped obama would fail. i hope that this nation wants obama to succeed. >> is there an increase in women and girls becoming active in hate groups and are they being
overlooked as threats, or is the problem with disgruntled men and boys? >> we find the hate groups that we are dealing with are populated mainly by men and teenagers. but there are a large number of women in these hate groups. all you have to do is look on the web sites. the group that we just assume, we got a $2.1 million rate against the imperial clansman of america for being what they perceived to be a latino boy. he was not latino. he was part panamanian indian and his mother was anglo. but they saw him at the county fair and beat him up and did severe permanent injury to him. this group, there were four members that they were recruiting at that county fair in kentucky and what we found out, though, when we went back and looked back at this group, they have a nordic fast. they hold a piece of land down in kentucky that we hope to be taking away from them soon to
satisfy the judgment but our hands are tied in appeal until that is over. but about one-third of the group is women. they at neo-nazi and other tattoos on them, some of them more than the men. >> what do you tell the working white port, usually males, who do see the immigrants depressing their wages? so let's go drivers are making $17 an hour and not $30 an hour any longer. >> that is truly one of the best questions that we have gotten carrie. it is a serious issue. we are in an economy that is obviously not growing and we are in an economy that a lot of the jobs are being taken by people coming into this country. i think we have to separate these things. most of the people involved in
these hate groups do not have skills, they are not working. and they are looking for a handout. they are disgruntled because maybe they have not succeeded and they want to blame it on somebody. but there are people who in this country, their wage levels are falling. there are people whose jobs have not kept up with inflation in the last 50 years. we have got a problem and an economy that will not support it. the american automobile industry is catastrophic. general motors just came out of bankruptcy yesterday and the country is -- and countries all over this world are beating us at what was the american game at ingenuity and industrialization. on the other hand, you have companies like delmonte, and others, who go to the department of labor and say, we cannot find american workers to pick our sweet onions in georgia, and your name every other fresh
fruit and vegetable in this country. and they bring guest workers in. çand guest workers have to get prevailing wage, time and half and pay coming both ways. what does delmonte do? they did not say that they will hire these workers. they say, we do -- they do not work for us. they work for the labor boss that we brought in from oconomowoc. -- or ramallah. we just brought it willing to show that delmonte was the employer. some of these corporations are seriously response will for the wages because they are not imposing fear labor standards act. that is true with chicken processing and even in the silicon valley. they're bringing in thousands of people because even if we have the workers, they are not willing to do the work or not
trained to do work or not in the right place to get the jobs. >> how using the internet has affected hate crimes and supremacist groups, and you think that by having the adoption of social and media, it has made it easier to track these groups? >> the internet has changed america, as we all know. the biggest hate groups in the united states is the virtual tape group, and that is on the web. a young person today might not be able to find a neo-nazi group to join, but all they have to do is get on the web and they are suddenly talking to someone in georgia, maine or montana and they have created a family of people of like believes. these websites have one central message, the jews are our enemy, and that is the central message of every one of these website. and you can download some of them if you want to.
then, some kid in his own bedroom is sitting there downloading this stuff and sooner or later, through their own paranoia and communication with others, they feel like, look, america is going to hell in a handbasket unless i go blow up this federal building. that is exactly what timothy mcveigh did. he is the poster shop for that kind of communications. the internet is great and good and we know is here. we are not going to change it. it is exactly what the first amendment mentmeant. and that is why the founders have the first amendment. the internet is nothing but a posting bulletin board. everybody has their own voice today and i think that is good. we have to use the internet to educate and to also define the issues and expose those people who would undermine core values in this country.
i would never being for stifling or trying to monitor what is on the internet, no matter how painful it might be. because in america, we have the right to love and hate, but we do not have the right to cross that line and her people physically. -- hurt people physically. >> right-wing commentators appeal to their audiences fears. do broadcasters such as john stohr, the onion, and now senator of franken make a difference in fighting hatred? >> i would be afraid to be on one of their shows. julien can handle it and some of the others, but i am not quick enough. [laughter] naturally, i watched a lot of those shows and i think that poking fun at those in power is important and, clearly, might have made the difference in this last election. but i think we can always use humor and people like mr.
limbaugh and savidge and some of the others are a great disservice to this country. i just hope that maybe they will find a way to see a different light. i noticed fox news recently has had some positive things to say about the need to deal with domestic terrorists. >> the american press has sometimes found itself in the position of attempting to report on the activities of extremist and windup facilitating the spread of their views. most interest in the case of sen -- senator joseph mccarthy. >> as i remember, it was a courageous journalist who brought joe mccarthy down. i think that the old argument of, i do not report on a klan rally -- and the clansman know it. six of them can put on a sheet and there'll be 50 media people out there covering it.
you should not give them this publicity. i disagree. i think the roleç of the medias to explain what is out there. it is not out there because of the media. the media is reporting on what is out there. if it had no reason to be, it would not be in the first place in the eyes of those who are reporting those views. i am for full coverage of hate groups. the more you cover them, the more people watching them will see that they are far, far off the mainstream. all these groups are looking for is one-third of 1% of those people to join those groups. they want to get the bomb throwers. and they're going to get them one way or the other and it will not be because c-span or some nut television program is reporting on their views. >> is there any correlation between whites a premise groups and radical christian sects? we hear almost nothing about
this kind of terrorism in the media. >> i guess you could say the complex clan uses the christian cross -- the kkk uses the christian cross. i have taken depositions of many kinds and and i say, tell me when you were burning the cross and they say, no, no, we do not burn a cross. we like the cross. i do not think there is a close connection between the religious right and hate groups themselves. clearly, we have seen some people in the anti-abortion movement, the murder of the doctor recently, you might call that religious right extremism within the right-to-life groups. and some of this domestic terrorism does not just involve the killing of jewish people at the holocaust museum shooting. i guess you could say that. i have seen, quite honestly,
when i have watched some of the pentecostal churche services, some of them that are deeply involved in political views and i look at the audiences and their one-third african- american. they are pretty open in that sense of the word. i do not think is a my religion or your religion kind of thing as much as it is ideological opinions. i'm sure there are some people in more mainstream churches that have views and they might it's -- not express them as vocally as someone in the neo-nazi group and in their pinstripe suits and ties and others, institute policies in this country that are detrimental to the poor and hard working people. >> how are the eight groups funded, and are there any actions that can be taken to cut off their funding sources? >> most of the groups that we have dealt with have little or no money.
they have more passion than some of the groups that oppose them. we have been able, through our lawsuits, to relieve them of some assets. the multimillion dollar breaks that we have gotten clearly represent what the jury thinks they should have paid when they beat up or shot some people in idaho. the verdict was like $6 million. all we got was there compound, several hundred thousand dollars and relieve them of that. people say -- asked me, how many members are there in the "hate klan?" they did not exactly have membership. did not pay their dues at the garden club. these people are affiliated and associated into groups. the leaders try to take up money for their own lifestyle and we found out there is a lot of that going on. as far as how many members they have, how many people are
influenced and associated with them? there is a website called storm front that claims 150,000 registered members. it is the bulletin board posting plays for hate in america. it is operated by don black, formerly associate with david duke. are those 150,000 people, except for the fbi and people like us getting on their side, are all those people members of eight groups? probably not, but i promise you, -- of hate groups? probably not, but i promise you, they are close travelers. >> you think the existing laws are sufficient to address these violations of civil rights and, if not, what needs to be done? >> i guess we're talking about federal aid legislation. some states have it and some do not. we are in favor of the pending bill, hate crime laws in the united states.
it is an important piece of legislation and i hope it is enacted. federalç prosecutors really double dip, so to speak. that is, if you have someone who has committed a crime and is prosecuted at the state level, they do not really go after them again. but now, the federal government is hamstrung. when the rodney king beating took place and the officers were found not guilty, the federal government went in under very restricted criminal statutes and got convictions of those individuals. so, i think that you just need to understand that a hate crime is a serious crime in itself. if you rob a bank and you take a gun, you get five years' extra because we, in america, are trying to say, we do not want guns and use -- guns used in this country because it adds to violence. if someone/of your tires, that is nothing more than malicious
destruction of property. but if you move into a house and -- but is an interracial couple moves into a house and they slashed the tires several times and put a sign on the house, moved out, then that is a serious crime. it deserves an enhanced punishment. those are the type crimes that are to come under the umbrella of a uniform federal hate crime statute that also should include the whole issue of of gays and lesbians and crimes against people because of their sexual orientation. let's do think it is time to take the focus of a skin color and focus on what separates people? >> i guess race is a social construct, as we are all the same human beings. but i do not know that you can change that. we talk about having the first
african american president. clearly, he is a human being like the rest of us. that would be the -- one of the end result, i would think, of a policy of inclusion. but i think the worst thing that it was part -- that a person can say is that they want to be color blind. that may sound like a good statement, but in reality, it is not a good statement. because sometimes color does play a part and being blind to that causes some additional and painful discrimination. >> we're almost out of time, but before asking the last question, we have a couple of important matters to take care of. first, i wanted to remind you of our future speakers. on july 20, michael steele commager of the republican national committee will join us -- michael steele, chair of the republican national committee will join us.
on july 24, congressman john conyers, chair of the house judiciary committee will be here. second, i would like to present our guest with the national press club mud. -- mug. >> thank you. [applause] >> i would like to thank you all for coming today and i would also like to thank the press club staff members for organizing today's lunch and also, thank you to the library for its research. the video archive for today's luncheon is provided by the national press club of broadcast operations center. our events are available for free look down load on itunes as well as our website. non-members may purchase transcript by calling 202-662- 7598 or by e-mail and archives@
press.org. and for our last question, what is your feeling about the prospects of america and the next three years regarding resolutions and problems by you have discussed today -- in the next 30 years regarding resolutions and problems to have discussed today? >> i am hopeful and positive that we will continue attending that arc of justice -- bending that are of justice to the pot of gold that is in. i am positive that this nation is not going to go back. we are going to go forward. we will take three steps forward and maybe, two steps back. but i believe that dr. king was here today with us and he was making the famous "i have a dream" speech today where he said, i have a dream that the sons of slaves and former slave owners will sit down around a
table of leather hoodç -- brotherhood. he has been gone for a long time, and if i could put words in his great man's mouth, he might say, and today, in the barrientos and the ghettos, and in the seeds of economic power, that the sons and daughters of former slaves and sons and daughters of former slave owners. and i think today he might add the homeless and the powerless and those who hold the keys to the economic and judicial power of this nation will sit down and round the table of personhood. and truly learn to love one another. thank you so much. [applause] >> again, thank you all for a joining us -- for joining us. we are adjourned. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]
[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> here is what is coming up -- president obama meets with reporters initially following the g-day summit. after that, an interview with doug hampton, whose wife had an affair with nevada senator john anson. then illinois senator roland burris announces that he will not run for the senate next year.
>> this week on america and the courts, three former law clerks talk about what it was like to work for judge sonia sotomayor, plus, a roundtable discussion on key cases judge sotomayor has rolled -- ruled on. america and the courts, saturday on c-span. >> live coverage of the confirmation hearing for supreme court nominee, sonia sotomayor, starts monday at 10:00 a.m. eastern, c-span radio -- at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, c- span radio and c-span.org. and we will replace it on weeknights on c-span2. the supreme court, on c-span. >> president obama says world leaders remain seriously concerned about the events surrounding iran's presidential election. at a 40 minute news conference
in italy, the president also talks about weapons with respect to iran and north korea. other topics work of global financial health care crisis and health care here in the unit -- the global financial crisis and health care here in the united states. >> i apologize for being a little bit late. good afternoon, we have just concluded the final session of what has been a highly productive summit here. before discuss what we have achieved these last three days, i would like to take a moment to express my thanks to prime minister berlusconi, his staff, the people of italy for their extraordinary hospitality and hard work in setting up this summit, and particularly, i want to thank the people of l'aquila
for welcoming us to your home at this difficult time. we have seen how you have come together and taking care of each other and we are moved by your courage and your resilience and your kindness. i am confident that a a l'aquila will be rebuilt, it's under restored and its service will serve as an example for all of us at how people can rise up from tragedy and begin anew. and we will keep this place and its people in our prayers and our thoughts in the months and years ahead. >> we have come here for a very specific reason, because the challenges of our time threaten every single nation and no one can meet these challenges alone. the threat of climate change cannot be contained by borders on the map and the theft of loose nuclear materials could lead to the extermination of any city on earth. rick was actions by a few have fuelled a recession that spans the globe and rising food prices
means thatç 100 million of our fellow citizens are expected to fall into desperate poverty. so, right now at this defining moment, we face a choice. we can either shape our future or let events shake it for us. we can let still debates and all this agreement of the house divide us, or we can recognize our shared interests and shared aspirations and work together to create a safer and cleaner and more prosperous world for future generations. i believe it is clear from our progress these last few days the past that we must choose. this gathering has included not just leaders of the g-eight, but for more than 25 nations as well as representatives from major organizations such as the u.n., imf, the buteo and others. after weeks of preparation and spirited discussions, we have agreed to take significant measures to address some of the
most pressing threats facing our environment, global economy and international security. let me outline what i believe have been the most of again. -- the most significant items to emerge. first, there was widespread consensus that we must all continue our effort to restore economic growth and reform our financial regulatory systems. i am pleased that the u.s. has taken the lead on this reform at home with a sweeping law for all of our regulatory system, a transformation on a scale that we have not seen since the aftermath of the great depression. but while our markets are improving and we have appeared to have averted a global collapse, we know that too many people are still struggling. so, we have agreed that full recovery is still a ways off, that it would be premature to begin winding down our stimulus plans and we must sustain our support for those plans to lay the foundation for a strong and lasting recovery.
we also agree that it is equally important that we return to fiscal sustainability in the midterm, after the recovery is completed. second, we agree to historic measures that will help stop the spread of nuclear weapons and move us closer to the long-term goal of a world without of their weapons. in prague, i laid out a comprehensive strategy to advance global security by pursuing that goal in moscow. pres. medvedev and i agreed to substantially reduce our warheads in a daughtry system that will be completed late this -- later this year -- in a treaty system that will be completed later this year. we're encouraging nations to meet their arms control and disarmament and non- proliferation commitments and to secure nuclear weapons invulnerable nuclear material so they do not fall in the hands of terrorists. i also invite leaders of the broader group of nations here to attend a global nuclear summit but i will host in washington in
march of next year we will discuss steps that we can take to secure loose nuclear materials, combat strugglinsmugd a tense and nuclear terrorism. we face a real time challenge on nuclear proliferation in iran. this summer, the g8 nations came together to assure a strong statement, calling on it to fulfil its response voted to the international committee without further delay. we remain concerned about the appalling events surrounding the presidential election and we are deeply troubled by the proliferation risks iran posing a nuclear program poses to the world. we have offered iran a path to its rightful place in the world, but with that comes responsibilities. we hope iran will make the choice to fill them and we will take stock of iran's progress when we see each other this september at the g-20 meeting.
there, we've taken steps to address the threats upon climate change in our time. the nations agreed that by 2015 we will reduce our emissions by 20% and work with all nations to cut global emissions in half. in 17 of the world's leading economy, developing and developed a lie. we have made significant advances on finance and adaptation and technology issues. we have already passed legislation in the house of representation -- representatives and we have set aside -- set new fuel efficiency standards because we believe the nation that can go a 20% tree clean economy can lead in the 20% three global economy. we did not reach agreement on every issue and we saw a much work at on climate change. butç these achievements are how
meaningful and they will generate significant momentum as we head into the talks at copenhagen and beyond. finally, we have committed to investing $20 billion in food security, agricultural food programs to help fight world hunger. this is in addition to the emergency millet -- emergency aid that we have provided. going into the meeting we had agreed to $15 billion. we have exceeded that mark and attained an additional $5 billion in commitments. we believe the purpose of aid is to create the conditions where it is no longer needed, to help people become self-sufficient and provide for their families and live their standards of living. -- lift their standards of living. that is why i've endorsed a procedure indoors by all leaders here, according to plan to help the countries themselves with held by institutions like the world bank when appropriate.
i also want to speak briefly about additional one on one meetings are held with leaders here outside of the g8 context. these meetings were tremendously valuable and productive. we spoke about how we can forge a strong coordinated and effective response to nuclear proliferation in north korea. we also discussed the challenges in managing our economy, steps we can take together to combat climate change and other important matters. i believe we laid a solid foundation on these issues. all of the, this summit and the work we have done here reflects that the defining problems of our time will not be solved without a collective action. no one corner of the globe can wall itself off from the challenges of the 21st century or the needs and aspirations of fellow nations. we must share in a persistent effort to combat threats to our peace, prosperity and common humanity where they make this. none of this will be easy.
as we have work to find common ground, we have not solve all our problems and we have not agreed on every issue, but we have shown that it is possible to move forward and made unprecedented progress together. i'm confident that we can do so in the months and years ahead. with that, let me take a few questions. i will start with peter bakker. >> [inaudible] >> i'm sorry, your microphone is not working. >> mr. president, we are told that you made your appeal for the food security money during the meetings personal by setting your family experience in kenya, your cousin and so forth. i am wondering if you could relate to us a little bit of what you said to them and talk about what your family experience, how that influences your policy and your approach.
>> what you heard is true. and i started with this fairly telling point, that when my father traveled to the united states from kenya to study, at that time, the per-capita income and gross domestic product of kenya was higher than south korea's. today, obviously, south korea is a highly developed and relatively wealthy country and kenya is still struggling with deep poverty in much of the country. and the question i asked in the meeting is, why is that? there had been some talk about the legacies of colonialism and other policies by wealthier
nations, and without in any way diminishing the history, the point i made was that the south korean government working with the private sector and civil society was able to create a set of institutions that provided transparency and accountability and efficiency that allowed for extraordinary economic progress. there was no reason why african countries could not do the same. and yet, in many african countries if you want to start a business or start a job, you still have to pay private. -- pay a bribe. there remains a lack of transparency. and the point that i was trying to underscore is that as we think about this issue of food security, which is of tremendous importance -- i mean, we have
100 million people who dropped into further dire poverty as a consequence of this recession. we estimate that 1 billion people are hungry around the globe. wealthier nations have a moral obligation as well as a national security interest in providing assistance. we have got to meet those responsibilities. the flip side is that countries in sub-saharan africa and elsewhere in the world that are suffering from extreme poverty have an obligation to use the assistance that is available in a way that is transparent, accountable, and builds on the rule of law and other institutional reforms that will allow long-term improvement. there is no reason why africa cannot be self sufficient. -- self-sufficient when it comes to food.
it has sufficient, terrible land. what is lacking -- sufficient airable land. it has the right seeds, the right machen nation's -- machinations. but what is lacking is the farmers to get the crops and of these things have to be part of a comprehensive plan. that is where we try to underscore in the meeting today. >> [inaudible] >> well, the point i was making is that my father traveled to the united states a mere 50 years ago, and yet, now have family members who live in villages -- they themselves are not going hungry, but they live in villages were on alert israel. -- where hunger is real.
if you talk to people on the ground in africa, certainly in kenya, they will say that part of the issue is that institutions are not working for ordinary people. governance is a vital concern that has to be addressed. keep in mind, i want to be very careful. africa is a continent, not a country. you cannot extrapolate from the experience of one country -- and there are a lot of good things happening. part of the reason we are troubling to ghana is that they have a functioning democracy, a president who is serious about reducing corruption, and you have seen significant economic growth. i did not want to overly generalize it, but i want to make the broader point that a government that a stable, that is not -- that is stable, that
is not engaging in travel conflicts, that can give people confidence and security that their work will be rewarded, that is investing in its people and their skills and talents, those countries can succeed regardless of their history. all right, michael fletcher of the "washington post." >> thank you, mr. president. as you have pushed for an agreement to reduce nuclear stockpiles between it u.s. and russia, part of the discussion has been that you want to have the moral authority to turn to north korea and iran to get them to suspend their progress. or would they listen to what the u.s. and russia have to say? -- why would they listen to what the u.s. and russia have to say? >> i do not think it is necessarily that they will listen to the united states or russia and individually, but it gives us the capacity as the two
nuclear superpowers to make appeals to the broader world community in a consistent way about the dangers of nuclear proliferation and the need to reduce that danger, and that hopefully some point in time, eliminate it. there are countries that have decided not to pursue nuclear weapons. brazil, south africa, libya have all made a decision not to pursue nuclear weapons. part of the concept behind the non-proliferation treaty was countries could develop peaceful nuclear energy, they would not pursue nuclear weapons if they were signatories to the treaty. and in turn, the u.s. and russia wouldç also significanty reduce their nuclear stockpiles. part of the goal here is to
show that the u.s. and russia are going to be fulfilling their commitments so that other countries feel that this is an international effort and not something simply being imposed by the united states or russia or members of the nuclear club. and i am confident that we can rebuild in non-proliferation framework that works for all countries. i think is important for us to establish a set of international norms that can be verified, that can be enforced. and when we are speaking to iran or north korea, it is not a matter of singling them out, but rather, it is a set of international norms of behavior that we're expecting everybody to abide by. paolo valentino. >> it seems that yesterday morning you had a very spirited
and lively discussion within the g-5 + 5 + one ignited by president lula as to the adequacy of the g-8 as the forum. i'm wondering if you think the days of g-8 are over. and within the forms of the g- 20, nato, you find it more or less complicated to do with that than with the american congress? >> on the second question, it is not even close. congress is always tougher. but in terms of the issue of the g's and what is the appropriate
structure and framework, i have to tell you, in the discussions, and listen to more than i spoke. although, what i said privately was the same thing that i said publicly, which is that there is no doubt that we have to update and refreshed and renewe the international institutions that were set up in a different time and place. some, the united nations, date back to post-world war ii. others likely g-8 are 30 years old. there's no sense that those institutions can adequately capture the enormous changes that have taken place during those intervening decades. what exactly is the right format is a question that i
think will be debated. at one point -- one point i did make in the meeting is that what i have noticed is that everybody wants the smallest possible route, smallest possible organization that includes them. so, if they are the 21st largest nation in the world, then they want the g-21. and i -- and they think is highly unfair if they have been cut out. what is also true is that part of the challenge here is revitalizing the united nations because a lot of energy is going into these various summits and organizations, in part, because there is a sense that when it comes to big, tough problems, the u.n. general assembly is not always working as effectively as rapidly as it needs to. so, i am a strong supporter of the un, and i said so in this meeting, but it has to be
reformed and revitalized. this is of the net i have said to the secretary-general. one thing that i have said -- but i think is absolutely true is that for us to think that we can somehow deal with these global challenges in the absence of major powers like china, india, and brazil, it seems to be wrongheaded. they're going to have to be included in these conversations. to have entire continents like africa or latin america not adequately represented in these major international forums and decision making bodies is not going to work. i think we are in a transition çtime. we are trying to find the right shape that combines the efficiency and capacity for action with inclusiveness.
my expectation is that over the next several years you will see an evolution and we will be able to find the right combination. the one thing i will be looking forward to is your summit meetings because, as you said, i have only been in office six months now and there have been a lot of these. i think there is a possibility of streamlining them and making them more effective. the u.s. obviously, is an absolutely committed partner to a concerted international action, but we need to, i think, make sure that they are as productive as possible. caen's nicholhans nichols. >> hon had other obligations. >> yes, i noticed you are not him. [laughter]
>> i would like to return to domestic issues, mr. president. health care -- the momentum seems to have slowed a bit. the senate finance committee is still wrestling with the cost issue. the blue dog democrats, members of your own party, yesterday said they have strong reservations about what is developing so far. i am wondering, where are you going to be jumping in full force with this? do you have any sweetener's planned? what is your push before the august recess? . .
it allows and to keep their doctors. we are closer to that significant reform. at any time in recent history -- that is not make it easy. it is hard. we are having a whole series of constant negotiations. this is not simply a democratic versus republican issue. this is a house vs. senate issue. this is different issues that have different priorities. it is my job to make sure we set clear parameters about what i what would to. we have to have spending on health care. their specific ways of doing that, game changers that incentivize quality versus quantity. they emphasize prevention. there are a whole host of things
up on the table with i want to see included. i have said that it needs to be budget neutral. it needs to be deficit neutral. whenever bill is produced, and that needs to be paid for. people would like to get the good stuff without paying for it. there are going to be tough negotiations in the days and weeks to come. i am confident that we are going to get it done. i think that appropriately all of u.s. reporters are reporting on the game. what i'm trying to keep focused on are the people out in the country better getting hammered by rising premiums. and they are losing their jobs
and is in their health care suddenly. they are going into debt. some are going into bankruptcy. small businesses and large businesses are feeling enormous pressure. i am also looking at the federal budget. there has been a lot of talk about the deficits and the debt and for my republican colleagues, why is obama not doing something about this? wire the ignoring the fact that we got into the worst recession since the great depression with a $1.3 billion deficit? that is fair enough. this is occurring on my watch. what cannot be denied is that the only way in to get a handle on our medium and long-term budget deficits is if we chorale and contain health-care costs. nobody denies this. my hope is that everybody who
is talking about deficit reduction get serious about reducing the cost of healthcare and puts a cereal -- serious proposals on the table. i think it is going to get them. it is going to be hard. as a said one of the town hall meetings, as dissatisfied as americans may be with the health care system, as concerned as they are about the prospects that they may boost their job or their premiums may keep on rising, and they are also a pretty and know. we have a long history in america of scaring people that they are going to lose their doctor or health care plans. they are good to be stuck with some bureaucratic government system that is not responsive to their knees. overcoming that year -- to their
needs. overcoming that fear by special interests who profit from the existing system is a challenge. my biggest job, even as my staff is working on the day to day negotiations with the house and senate, my job is to expand the american people why this is so important and give them confidence that we can do better than we are doing right now. >> is a pretty much a do or die by the august recess? what i never believe anything is do or die. i really want to get it done by the august recess. christie parsons. is year round? i'm disappointed. do have any members of the
foreign press here? i will use christy's spot for this. >> thank you very much. what i cannot hear you though. can somebody make sure the mike is working? >> you been talking about the state sovereignty. how you reconcile that with the responsibility to protect, which used to be the cornerstone? >> i am sorry. how they reconcile that with the responsibility to protect it? >> which used to be the cornerstone of hope for a lot of people in post-war context. >> define a standard question correctly, on the one hand we think that respecting the sovereignties of nations is important. we do not want traditions
bullying weaker nations. on the other hand, where you have nations that oppressing their people -- isn't there an international responsibility to intervene? it is one of the most difficult questions in international affairs. i do not think that there is a clean formula. what i would say is in general it is important for the sovereignty of nations to be respected and to resolve conflicts between nations diplomacy in and international organizations and try to set of international norms that countries want to meet. there are going to be circumstances in which the need
for international intervention becomes a moral imperative. the most obvious example being in a situation like rwanda where genocide had occurred. gordon brown, during the last session, told an incredibly powerful story. i may not be getting all the details. he said he got into rwanda and went to some sort of museum or exhibition commemorating the tragedy in rwanda. there was a photograph of a 12- year-old boy the bill he said that he loves soccer and wanted to be a doctor. it provided his biography.
the last line on this exhibit said that right before he and his mother were killed by me turn to his mother and said, do not work, a united nations is going to come fix it. -- do not worry, the united nations will come to fix it. that voice has to be heard in international relations. the threshold at which international intervention a corporate has to be very high. there has to be a strong international out reach. -- out reach. it is not always going to being a neat decision. there are going to be objections to just about any decision, because there are some in the international community who believe that the sovereignty means a never
intervene under any circumstances. i think rather than focus on hypothetical, what we want to do is build up international norms, put pressure, economic, diplomatic, on nations that are not acting in accordance with universal values toward their citizens but not hypothesize on particular circumstances, take each case as it comes. richard wolf? >> i guess they have to follow on that. is it wrong in that category? are you disappointed that when you came up with a statement of condemnation that you did not come up with any kind of sanction having to do with iran's crackdown on protesters? >> i read your article.
i may be read some others. this notion that we were trying to get sanctions or that this was a form for which he could get sanctions is not accurate. what we wanted was exactly what we got, which is a statement it unity and strong condemnation about the appalling treatment of peaceful protesters post- election in iran as well as some behavior that violate basic international norms, storming of embassies, arresting embassy personnel. i think the real story here was a consensus in that statement. that includes russia. that does not make statements like that likely. there is the other story there that was the agreement that we
will reevaluate i ran's posture towards negotiating the sensation of nuclear weapons policy. we will evaluate that at the g 20 meeting in september, and i think what that does is that it provides a timeframe. the international community has said here is a door you can walk there. it allows you to lessen tensions more fully -- and more fully join the international community. if iran chooses not to walk through that door then you have on record the g-8 to begin with.
i think there are potentially a lot of other countries that will say, we need to take further steps. that has always been our premise. we provided that door and we also say we are not going to just wait indefinitely and allow for the development of a nuclear weapon, the breach of international bridges, and wake up one day and find ourselves in a much worse situation and unable to act. my hope is the iranian leadership will look at the statement coming out of the g-8 and recognize that world opinion is clear. all right? >> thank you very much.
[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] behal >> doug is the former chief of staff for the nevada senator. last month, the republican senator admitted to having an affair with mr. hampton's wife who also worked for senator. he talks about the matter with a tv reporter on the program "face to face." this is just over 20 minutes. >> welcome to "face to face the " imagine your best friend had an affair with your wife. it is bad enough when you are friend is an employer and your senator. that can be life shattering.
welcome to our two-part interview. but let's get to the part where year as to the fire. his conduct and relentless behavior led to our dismissal. i like to say to stop the heinous conduct and pursue. it cannot consign until august 2000. let's focus on the first car. you say that the relentless pursuit of your wife led to dismissal. what exactly happened? >> the worker is did -- they orchestrated him getting out of his official office. he told me that he said he was in love with my wife and you cannot work for me anymore. when a center city cannot work for you anymore and he initiate and takes the initiative to talk to people and meet in an
official office. to be part of a cover-up and we are going to keep this all between us because what would happen if it were to get out -- the kind of shuttle that he cast across the hamptons and everyone who knew about this, including family is, he made you feel guilty somehow if you were a part of making sure it went down. >> that is sick. he is asking you to participate in a cover-up. he should tell him to leaving it out of my hair. you are seeing this took place in an official office? >> this entire thing went down exactly as i describe it. i didn't bring this up. we did not think let's leave the organization and the same day. >> how was she told? at the same time? >> because of johns pursuits and because darlene was watching
john, really watching his behavior when he was home, the fridays, and the weekends, his cell phone service, his e-mail service. she is very suspicious. >> was he still e-mail and your wife at the time? >> absolutely. >> how the know that? >> i've witnessed it. she told me. she confessed he got some of their phones. it is crazy. >> he bought other cell phones. your wife to do this. >> she showed me. >> she should you records? >> she told -- show me text messages. darlene knew what was going on. she was doing her own work. john was just relentless. >> darlene was getting suspicious. >> she was suspicious until the end april. in the end of april there is a big encounter where john admitted that i'm completely --
that he is sorry does not want to do ke, i'm done. it did not change at all. >> this is at the same time. did he say he was in love with cindy? >> he told you that. >> john uses that as leverage to contact cindy. she was trying to get away from junk, but he will leave messages about how it is about her job and a work issue. just putting in that position is a terrible position that she was in. it is so easy to look back and say why deny do this or that? it is very difficult to navigate.
our lives were meshed. there were significant jobs. >> did she feel pressure? >> there is no question. >> there is an ethics complaint filed. >> i hope it does -- i hope there is a investigation. it needs to be. u.s. about john being a senator. this kind of strategic decision making is not serving their country well. he needs to go address some things. he need to take some responsibility. we were employees, not fired, but orchestrated and asked to leave, ushered out. a powerful man to change our form of life forever. >> there is been a lot written about your wife's pay and severance. when we come back, we are going to talk about that. what really happened? we will get it from the horse's mouth. this is our exclusive interview
on "face to face." welcome back. this is the former a -- aa for a u.s. senator who had a affair with his wife. there was every port about your wife's pay raise. basin -- a sitter payments doubled in 2008 for an increased amounts of work responsibilities. she worked as a consultant. she doubled her pay by the end of january 2008. that was based on her taking out additional rules for direct mail and accounting. in an unrelated legal investigation. i didn't know she took on additional responsibilities that are not. by the time line, that is when
the affair started. december 2007, he said u.s. relentlessly pursuing your wife. her paid a double. >> there is nothing to that. it is the truth. enlarge the men of work was moved from him back to house. she can treasury. things were growing. things were significant. the way the whole campaign world overlaps. there is a tremendous amount of overlap. her statement of work increased significantly. it is just timing. it is unbelievable that coincided. >> you are saying it is an coincidence? >> not in any way. >> what about your son being higher, too. we request like that all of the
time. this is an intern. >> tell people how that happened. >> of brandon had an opportunity to do an internship. he was making phone calls. they need that kind of work. they bring children in. he was not the only one. there are many that come through. he just did an internship. he dialed $4. i do not know if john was in it or not. mike and i could orchestrate this as an intern. >> this kind of thing is not that uncommon. let's talk about as you leave any severance that was paid to you and your wife. let me show you what the new york times wrote. a close and close to his family spoke only on the condition of anonymity dismissed him from a
political team with a severance from his own pocket. is that true? >> yes. >> he paid severance for your wife out of his own pocket. how much? >> that i do not know. >> more than $25,000? >> absolutely. that could be. the intent and reason was he couldn't do anything for me. i make government employee. i really hope the government stepped up and understand that i was an employee of an employer that is something that does not cut it in this life. people are held to strict ethics standards. and my wife's case, the whole campaign world and how it is under tried -- intertwined is
different. it spilled over into insurance and things that he could do in the severance. he cannot do for me. >> why would he pay severance out of his own pocket? what i do know the answer. >> you are still with your wife. you have talked about this with their. >> are only intent was that john came forward. he only. he never paid money to the knowledge the number of things that i have really talk about here with regard to job. this is purely that it did not work out. hope you have a nice lead. in his mind, he is going to continue to try to cultivated relationship with cindy. he does not care about much after that. >> he pays your wife severance. the state is way more than it would buy thousand dollars. then he continues to pursue a relationship.
>> it is unbelievable. we will talk more with the canton on what happened next. -- with doug hampton on what happened next. we are talking with doug hinton exclusively. he is to be very close. he is speaking out on what was an abusive powerful cover-up. in this complaint, the as to investigate the $6,000 payment when you were terminated. they said the additional payments work of an " equal to 12 days of unused vacation, not a severance package." you never got a severance. >> no. >> let's talk about going forward. what occurs? november 18, the company started
by former employees of john, some of your place there. you say that mike did not know anything about their relationship. he knew all about the other. >> he was contacted by darlene and made aware that way. >> how'd you know that? >> because he told me. they came and said something happen at the end of march in my time there, but something exploded. the girls and a cake -- it came out. mike said he knew what happened. he could not believe it. this is the march time area. we went downstairs and confronted jump. darlene was not aware that mike knew.
mike knew the we did not know what to do. he was in a terrible spot like i was them. >> why did you go to work for him? >> what else was i going to do? john created the whole consulting world. they will pay five to $10,000 a month and get a few clients to get there. though cover the income. >> then what happens? >> it did not work out. it was a very difficult start. clients were not coming together. people were not paying. john of people to the contract down. don did not understand. people want to understand relationship. i began do some consulting work. what did john get the consulting work? >> all he did was talk to them
about what we are doing. he is the ceo of one the main principles. >> did you ask him to call? >> no, don ward off of his own list. -- john worked off of his own list. at intel or ask him to meet him. >> this sounds kind of sick to me. here is a guy who is forced to out of the office. he did not want to anywhere near him. he still wants to wife. but your time and, he pursued your wife. they had an affair through august. this guy is still trying to find you work. this is very sick. do not you think? >> this is unbelievable. this is so unbelievable for so many angles. >> he wanted you to keep quiet. >> he just felt like if i do apples for apple's and you set up that -- if your wife love me
at one time and i can work through this, if i can figure out this is how i feel about her -- and not one to apologize -- he felt like he handled everything correctly that it would go one that way. he never looked past the moment or down the road or what would it would mean. what does it look like? how would some believe a coverup could last? >> you are part of the cover-up? >> yes, the fact that in that the media did do something. -- that i did not immediately do something production >> you have a pretty good job. your son was hired. is your job secured? >> these people have been wonderful. there is a wonderful place to work.
i am a unbelievably privilege to be there. i should not have to defend that. i did the work. i have managerial experience. i can provide service. it is unfortunate. things have been questioned with required to qualification. none of that happened in any of the way it did not happen. people go to work. they spend a few years in the staff. john is still a u.s. senator. you are the one out there saying of the step. they do not want you around. do they? >> it is tough for them right now. i did not initiate this snowball. >> you are really worried you not be able to make a living.
they also pressured hiring you. >> he has increase significant hardships and difficulties as a result. >> we will more segment to do. i want to find out exactly what triggered your writing that letter to fox news. what does he want to happen now? welcome back. we are talking exclusively on the program. john ensign and his wife had an affair. there is a minute triggered your writing this letter to fox news. things are going along ok. at some point, something happened. why did you finally decide to go to fox news? >> after some time, cindy from the magnitude of what is
happened has settled in. we realize that we are going backward financially. that was a big piece of the magnitude of what had happened. i just really felt like maybe sometime have passed and that the legal representation and they talked to johns riegle a presentation -- john's presentation -- when you talk about me and the anger in the herd, it is a lot were john -- but i want to do the right thing. children are involved. but what is going on. i wanted to get people involved in say let's take a look at this. maybe there can be some restitution. he basically said, no, it will not happen. >> john? he said to his lawyer there is no way you give the money. why?
he did not think he has done anything wrong. >> the apology was initiated by the fox letter in a way that is not understood yet. >> yet hired an attorney with the people to believe that you are planning some kind of action. >> my action was to try to negotiate with -- >> that did not work. are you going to file an action? does your wife want to? >> we need a lot of help. we stated that in the letter. we need contract -- help. >> lot of lawyers are saying -- did you lawyers say you have any case? >> there is talk about the slander. >> how did you this winter? >> absolutely.
he need to take a lot of things back. he need to respond differently. >> how did he find out about this? >> genuinely solicited a box's help because i believe -- >> how did he find out? >> 1a the correspondence that is a part of fox news -- one of the correspondence that is part of fox news -- i ask him to come before. he did not. it appears to me how it happened. john did not to travel on monday and turnaround in trouble on tuesday. this was well thought out. >> has been any attempt by you to contact john ensign? >> not a dog. >> telling better why.
she seems to be forgot. your marriages intact. >> they are looking at it as if this a fair was nonchalant, do not care about like a cup. it was nothing like that. >> the chief election was under pressure? -- did she tell you she felt like she was under pressure? >> she is a great lady. this is been harder on her than anyone could make it on her. what happened and what to place at that time. -- that time called for someone to not quit, the confronted by friends, constantly people approaching him saying this is a career ending situation, it is damaging, can we help you -- a gutter and into blackmail and extortion.
i do not understand that. >> you are considering action. >> yes, i am considering everything. i hope the government would do something as an employer. >> we are out of time. thank you very much. >> now roland burris said he will not go for the whole term next year. he was nominated by rock lowboy of its -- by rob blagojevich. this is about 10 minutes.
>> thank you for all your energy. thank you for joining me. i'm here to talk about important issues. i've been representing the wonderful people of illinois and how important the united states senate is for the future of our country. i was named to the senate back in december and i stated that i would serve a two-year term. i felt strongly at the time that we needed full time centers. i still feel left with. i have served the people of this state of 30 years. public service means working, advocating, and fighting for your constituents and their needs. day in and day out. that has been my commitment.
i will try to do that every day of my career. we have a new president. the whole idea of the program dealing with help her, the economy, jobs, schools, and the environment. these are all important issues for the people of our state and nation. i am proud to follow in these cassettes in the senate and of the ford to working with him on the pressing issues of our times. united states senate will be at the center of debate for all of those issues. i had been a member of that for seven months.
i have seen firsthand that my colleagues are thoughtful, dedicated, and americans. it is my hope that we can come together to work together on a bipartisan way. but to me say this. here the last points of my remarks for my future plans. ladies and gentlemen, life is about choice. make no mistake, i love serving in the united states senate. i love serving the people of illinois, make no mistake. [chanting we love you]
i'm the only african-american serving in the senate. i believe diversity and representation are all segments of our society. it is essential to who we are as a nation. the reality requires not only significant time commitments to performing the job but an almost equal commitment to raising the funds to run competitively for the office. political races have become far too expensive in this country. [applause] i am making this decision and i
was called to choose between spending my time raising funds or spinning my time raising issues for my state. i believe that the business of the people of illinois should always come first. this is that our state to come first. today i have returned to the place for my political journey began back in 1978. i am back to the south side chicago, back to my community and constituents. i announce that i'm not the candidates in the 2010 election. i will not run for the united states senate seat. last january, the same month i was seated, president obama and joe biden swept into the office, sending our country on a new
course of reaffirming the truth of the american dream. the obama administration is bringing transformational changes to this nation and it is an exciting time to be a public service. more exciting is the hope and possibility that any time and i can remember. i say to the young people in the audience here today that this is the world in which you will grow up. this is the world that you will shape and change. i made the decision as a young man, again ridden a few of you are in the room today, to get involved in public life. and never imagined the had the great honor to serve the state and this country for as long as i can live.
young people, it is your turn now. now it is your turn to decide how you will serve your community. you are the next generation of leaders. all of you have the potential to rise to any level you choose. i am encouraged by what the future brings. as a look around, i see featured educators and centers and maybe even a future president of this united states. living in public life is not easy. it is a noble and reporting calling. for the reminder -- me manger of my senate term, i'm committed to working hard for the people of illinois in fighting health care, education, green jobs.
i will stand up for our veterans in the security of our country lead our men and women in uniform. as i have done in the past three decades, i will keep fighting for the state of illinois. [applause] i want to thank each and everyone of you for making it possible. with all the progress that we made together, i'm grateful for the partnership. i'm grateful for the leadership. i'm grateful for the health. i thank my family that has been with me. my friends have always been my core of support. through encouragement and
support i will never ever stop. i'm proud of everything we have accomplished together. most of all, i think the people of ellen two -- i think the people of illinois hook by had the honor of serving. house -- i thank the people of illinois who i had the honor of serving. thank you very much. [applause]
>> coming up, you listen to a commander general petraeus on security forces in iraq and afghanistan. after that, more use of the southern poverty law center. in a conversation on the nomination and confirmation hearing for judge sonia sotomayor. tomorrow, george discusses president obama's weekend speech to gonna's parliament. mrs. martinez talks about the new provisions to require
subcontractors to verify the legal status of their employees. john hutton details the bonuses given to government contractors. tof a good washington journal" live on c-span. >> q&a on sunday, ronald and allis osdash. >> no one knew what they were going to do. he said i do not know. we will have to see. he had already decided. he said, i am going to support this creation. >> sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific.
you can also listen to the program on c-span radio. >> he recently spoke about the lessons learned from counterinsurgency efforts in iraq and how they can be applied to troops. this event was hosted by the world affairs council in seattle. it is but an hour and 25 minutes. thank you for all that you are doing to participate in this conversation. this is the second world affairs council i've had the pleasure of the dressing. i've developed an admiration for
the organization. i will address another one tomorrow. i am hoping that if i can get all the stamps that perhaps i can qualify for a teacher. the council seems distinguished. being one of the nation's largest hosts of the u.s. state department funded international visitors program. : palps -i was pleased to learnt tonight we have with us and international security delegation with members from nine different african countries. a few moments ago, at the pleasure of meeting a remarkable group of folks based here in seattle and joining us tonight. it is great to have all of them here. i want to recognize a general.
at the everyone here knows and recognizes him. [applause] he truly is the personification of the american dream. he started as an immigrant. he began his career in the arm and as for dick armey is a private and rose are the course of 30 years to four stars, including the supreme allied commander in europe and the highest military position in the united states, chairman of the joints chiefs of staff during some very important years in the 1990's. he was in uniform at that time. it is a pleasure to have him here. it is also a treat to have in the audience members of a west
point break underlined, class of 1974, the pride of the corps. it was 39 years ago last week in the summer of 1970 that we new cadets were realizing what we got yourself into. after a drink or two, perhaps without a drink or two, they will be happy to tell you young cadet petraeus and note how unlikely it seemed at that time but i might be standing here to address you this evening. [laughter] classmates, it is great to see you again. thank you. everybody else, thanks for such a warm welcome. i'm thrilled to be here. flying today, we avoided the kind of harrowing experiences i had last time you visited. seattle is known for its
sunshine common known to the rest the world as rain. the last time we flew in it was particularly bad. there was fog so thick that the visibility was only 40 feet. our pilots instrument band out on the approach. -- pilot's simmons went out on the approach. as in the low on fuel, we got a bit nervous. this is a group is used to flying around in combat zones. with a very clever pilot. three small opening in the fall, he spotted a tall beating -- a building with one guy working on the 14th floor you have a window open. circling, our pilot shouted, hey, where am i? the office worker shut the back, you are in an airplane [laughter] on hearing this useful
information, our pilot immediately made a to indemnify the return and executed a perfect blind landing on the runway. just as the plane stopped, the engines caught in died from lack of fuel. we said there stunned. no one said they were. finally, my aide asked the pilot, how did you do that? elementary, replied the pilot. i asked that by on the building a simple question. it was 100% correct in useless. i knew that must be microsoft support office. [laughter] [applause] from there, the airport is only three minutes away. i want you to know i'm keenly aware that microsoft is one of the sponsor of this evening's event. [laughter]
i cleared this tumor earlier. you can see the hand right here. -- i cleared this humor earlier. you can see their hand right now. he gave the thumbs up to this. i'm going to use microsoft our point in one moment productio. what i would like to do this evening is provide you an update on the events in the central command area of responsibility. we will do it for about half an hour or so and then i will be happy to take any questions that you have. this slide shows the area of responsibility of the u.s. central command, 20 countries. they stretch from egypt in the west to pakistan in the east. caught and in the north down to the waters of somalia -- has
exte. you know the challenges in that area. that is why would people ask what we do we occasions did we feel like the little guy in the circuit to run around trying to keep those plates spinning at revolutions. this does capture the money slide, what is the try to do in central command. needless to say, we are still hard at work. we are hoping the iraqi security forces but still working against al qaeda in iraq and the persius extremist elements sector still active there. we do a great deal of work in terms of partnering and building regional security initiatives and cooperation in the arabian peninsula. we are helping in yemen because
of concerns about al haida -- al qaeda. they have been defeated in saudia arabia and many of those states. we have a very active partnership with egypt. we are concerned about weapons smuggling to hamas and hezbollah. we are worried about counter piracy. our other chokepoints are of enormous importance to global commerce. it is estimated 50% of the world energy is close to that on a daily basis. we have an enormous challenge and in the form of iran, whose actions and continue farming of extremist elements in iraq and
lebanon and gaza and western afghanistan cause problems. it causes a normal pause as you would imagine. it is particularly among the arab states. preventing proliferation is one of our tasks. we are working to build partnerships with the so-called stands. we have a distribution network that is now established. general shali will love to hear about it sometime. he pioneered a lot of the door openings in some of these areas. that is to enable the building of our forces in afghanistan. i will talk about that situation. we also work to assist our pakistani partners within the
last two months. if carried out significant operations against extremists who now are seen by them to pose an accidental -- ex essential situation. here are those challenges that we have for this year. this is a reasonable number. as i mentioned, there has been a damn will spiral in afghanistan and we have to arrest -- a down world -- a downward spiral in afghanistan and have to arrest those. we are not carrying out that plate. it is they who are fighting the taliban. the significance there of them seeing this as their fight against extremists who threaten their existence cannot be overstated. meanwhile, there have been very
substantial gains in iraq, but there are also sniffing concerns. i will talk about bells. we are reducing our forces there. we are making other changes. that is on track. as i mentioned, they -- there are continuing challenges. i talked about the challenges from the so-called iranian influence. this is the hard power and soft power that they exert in the region. we should note that there are common interests and it is not impossible but some of its common interests could be turned into something in the months ahead. of course, there are concerns that they all have their. -- they all have ther.e
the guenon has just had an election in which the 11 non has had an election in which a coalition that is released -- lebanon has just had an election in which something not that close to iran has been unveiled. i was also just in afghanistan. i can get some firsthand accounts. i talked about the concerns in yemen about the need to assist them and to ensure they do not become a failed state. somalia is a failed state without question. it causes enormous problems. that is the reason that you have the kind of piracy challenges that we have.
an extraordinary individual. he was a key figure in the dayton accord in bosnia. we are working on afghanistan and pakistan together, very important to have a regional approach. then ambassador dennis ross, a skilled diplomat focusing efforts on iran and the outreach to syria. let's talk a little bit about iraq and then we will go on to
talk about afghanistan and some others. 2009 is a very significant year, it is a transition year. it is a year in which all of the non u.s. coalition members have departed or will depart. we have just completed the withdrawal of our combat elements from the cities in accordance with the u.s.-iraq security agreement. we are changing our focus, we're going from being the primary conductors of combat operations to supporting the iraqi forces. this has been ongoing for 12-18 months and recently we had the final withdrawal. it did excel rate in those cities in which we have a large presence in the spring and that would be in the case of bad
debt, mobile and basrah. -- in the case of baghdad, mosul and basrah. we're still there to provide logistical and medical assistance as needed. they are assuming and have been assuming those tasks for 18 months or more. they did have the provincial elections this past january. interestingly, the parties that succeeded were least associated with iran and more so sid with more nationalists and cyclical tendencies and the nationalist parties.
you can see the maneuvering going on. it is quite interesting. the constitution in iraq requires a substantial degree of coordination amongst the different parties. it is fascinating to watch democracy in action. this is not democracy as we know it, it is something different but it is something in which the people are represented and in which the people have a say and they will go to the polls in significant numbers next january. prior to that will be a census. this is a very significant event in iraq. this lofty eventually have some
impact on the ultimate alexians in certain circumstances. there are still numerous challenges, there are still al qaeda alamance and other elements that are at work. there was a statement issued that we were flooded the cities. al qaeda released as many suicide, is as they could. there are certainly shi'a extremists. there have been some detainee releases used to pursue this with the iraqi government. there is no question that iran still funds and direct some of the group's that are still active inside of iraq and that is a concern. there are these external influences. unmentioned iran, there are still movements of foreign
fighters through syria although we should note that syria has taken action against some of the foreign fighters. there are many suicide bombers moving through syria. this is a serious deal in the state department's counter- terrorism bureau. there are considerable mistrusts. this is between arabs and kurds. this is the kurdish region. general shali was working in the kurdish region. there are disputes where the
boundaries are between the kurdish regional government and the rest of iraq. there are disputes between the districts. there are suddenly concerned with the sunni and shi'a. there are disputes within both of these groups. there are budget pressures. iraq got used to the price of oil for a bit and that was pretty sweet for them for that time. it was pretty sweet for boeing as well. a lot of work still to be done, the provision of electric sittinpower, schools, water.
once we have been able to achieve security and keep the power lines from being knocked down and the pipelines from being blown up, this has made an enormous difference. you can see, this is the height of the violence. there were 1600 attacks and a single week. this was in june of 2007. that was the height of the violence. you would have seen a scale that when about like this.
the cycle of violence started and it never stopped until the height of the search. we took a with los angeles al qaeda was able to establish. we also looking to deal with the shi'a extremists. the number now was the lowest on record since we started keeping records in july, 2003. in the month of june, despite the sensational attacks that we saw, and did indeed go down to the lowest as well. this is a macabre statistic. , this was the focus of our
searcforces. this shows confront coalition data. we had a huge gap because we were not in the neighborhoods. you can see that we largely closed that gap over time. at this point, there were 55 dead bodies every 24 hours in baghdad alone. we wondered why they could not to any legislation done. bridges were blown up, i tension wire towers or blown down. when i took over in february of 2007, there were 42 car bombs in baghdad that single month. over time, our troopers and our partners, by locating in the
neighborhood, 77 additional security stations, you are able to drive the level of violence down to take away those centuries and safe haven from al qaeda and sunni extremists. there have been ups and downs, certainly, and we remain concerned about the number of high-profile attacks here. we have been able to drive this down to lower levels. still at levels that are of concern. i don't want to diminish in the least the challenges that face iraq nor the fact, he used to say that the progress remains
fragile and reversible. this shows you where the al qaeda elements were in 2006, 2007. what you can see is that they had a substantial presence in baghdad itself. you can see how this runs up and down the tigris and euphrates river valleys. overtimes, it has greatly diminished. this is much much less right now and it was before.
in dealing with al qaeda in iraq, a terrorist group, requires much more than counter terrorist operations. but what requireit requires morr special forces. they are very important. they might have had as many as 10 operations and night. this is hugely significant that this is not enough. we did this at a very high tempo in ramadi four years. we used all of these forces, not just counter-terrorism but also large conventional forces, increasingly large iraqi forces and increasingly capable iraqi
special forces. over time, we were able to work with shieks of sunni tribes. there where tribal leaders who wanted to get rid of al qaeda. in some cases, we had to clear before people would raise their hands because of a level of fear that had crept in. you also have to pass laws that equitably distributed income.
you have to realize that the fabric of iraqi society was torn. the big breakthrough was not some kind of difference in intelligence. there has been breakthroughs in measurement intelligence, the applications that help us put this all together with increasingly large databases and storage capabilities and pipes. the real breakthrough has been in the fusion of all of this int.
we broke down the abyss between cia, special special operations. special operations. we had some 26 detainees at the height of this. those were breeding grounds for the terrorists class of 2007. we identified the truly hard- core and we separated them from the rest of the population. you have to get at the roots of discontent, the problems that might lead someone to sign off with an extreme group in the first place. you have to get them jobs, services.
cerium reporters and then the whole area of strategic and indications. -- syria borders and then the whole area of strategic indications. what we try to do with all of this was to put pressure on every aspect of what al qaeda needed. these are their needs right here. these are the groups that comprised the consolation that would typically turn al qaeda. over time, you were able to cut down on the flow of foreign fighters to reduce the public support, to degrade the attraction of their ideology, to label them for their strong practices. to cut down on the access to money, which is the oxygen in many of these movements.
it takes all of that. we had a lot of big ideas that were active during this time. it was not just 30,000 extra troops, and not just 125,000 extra iraqi troops or even the 100,000 sons of iraq, although the matter. this is a people-intensive effort. the biggest difference was the ideas. the concepts, the employment of the forces in accordance with these starting with a focus on securing the people and recognizing that we also had to serve the people and be seen to serve the people to do that, you had to live with it. you cannot commute to the fight. we drove to the neighborhood a couple of times, go back to your base and have the people feel secure. you had to move in with them.
baghdad had 77 additional locations. comprehensive, this is what explant with the anaconda slide. this is why we had to link arms with our state department brothers and all of the other interagency groups. we established that corporation was not optional. we look for opportunities to make that point and we did. we went to see prime minister maliki together even if he called on only one of us. this is not only about soft power, this is about doing what the military pays you to do, to get your teeth into the enemy and keep them there. to pursue them relentlessly, to
kill or capture them. you should not start clearing an area unless you can hold it. before we launched our offensive, we knew what we were going to do once we had the areas cleared. we knew how to hold for money because we were going to fight like the devil to take it. it was a tough fight. you have to have such a good intelligence that you can figure out who are the reconcilable spring. you want to promote reconciliation. you cannot kill or capture your way out of an industrial strength insurgency. you need to see who is part of the solution. those are truly irreconcilable have to be killed, captured or run of this country. if this process requires a very he was fine understanding of
local situations. it takes place with individual tribal alamance and the global leaders. when if you transition, when you handoff to iraqi security forces, you have to be sure of the conditions to allow you to do this successfully. you don't want them to have a problem which we cannot handle which will only make things worse and lead to them being challenged in a way which ultimately means that they are hijacked by some of the enemy alamance just for their own survival which was the case in late 2006 and into 2007. we had to work hard to reclaim the national police and it took the effort of all of their commanders. we were very aggressive.
we tried to be accessible to the press. we did not put lipstick on pigs. it was a problem, we said it was a problem. at some people come out from washington and they said, you have a perception problem. you have a message in problem. when the results turnaround, the people will see it. this was our model. when you conduct an operation, there is literally a race for the headline of cnn or the other news services which is just about all of them. you can see who gets it first. you have to do it truthfully. the militia has speed dial into their cellphone the local
stringers for those news organizations. i put out instructions. there was a bit of a concern. the grinding effect of combat for years and years may have actually led some folks to say that they turned a blind eye to some of this. we work very hard to make sure that the short-term expediency brings long-term problems. we sought to create an environment in which our leaders felt that they could exercise initiatives. and my level, i will sketch out some white wines in the road.
each level between me and those guys, you can see how this gets closer to the local situation. we might be doing ok when we're out on patrol. in the absence of orders or guidance, figure out what they should have been an execute aggressively. [laughter] i took that off of the door and take it back and it made it into my counter insurgency guidance. these are the elements of the guidance that was issued. you have to continually learn and then dumped. you must institutionalize and share ideas. this is a thinking and adaptive enemy and we cannot ever get
into a rut where we think what works today will work tomorrow. back in 2005 on my way home from a second tour in iraq, secretary rumsfeld wanted me to go into the effort of training the afghanistan security forces. i was impressed by the enormous challenges, a country that lacks many of the blessings that iraq has and also lacks the enormous violence. it did not have the oil, the water, the natural gas and much else.
30 years of war and all of the accumulated difficulties that have been visited on the country, i think that this would be the longest campaign for the long war. this has proven to be accurate. afghanistan is going to take a substantial commitment. more forces which are on the way, we're going to about 30,000 at the beginning of the year to about 60,000 this fall. more enablers, regular helicopters, aerial vehicles, clearance teams. more trainers to work with the security forces and more civilians. clearly, the afghan national army and police have to grow further. one of the studies that is ongoing is to determine if they
should be larger than is currently in addition. that would be a conclusion that is reached. certainly you have to take a regional approach. this is ongoing now in a pretty substantial way. the strategy for afghanistan, all of these are manifestations. you have to take all of this and make sure you achieve the unity of effort that is so important. that is in this case with the substantial number of international realizations and certainly host nations.
i will show you how the violence has escalated in afghanistan over the course of the past two years. as in iraq, there has to be a commitment to secure parts of the population. the tactical directive was released and it focuses on diskthis. we want to minimize civilian casualties from the use of attack helicopters. local level activity, this requires the kind of new ones
the appreciation and understanding at local levels and in some cases is a work in progress. you can identify who the irreconcilable czar and integrate them -- irreconcilables are and integrate them for separate them. i will show you how 70% of the violence has been. an enormous amount of work is needed to build the capacity of the government. we need to clamp down on that the corruption. also to get after this narcotics
problem, this is such a plague on afghanistan. this is a challenge to the rule of law. there are a host of other initiatives that need to be taken here. these are very necessary to ensure that the overriding objective is achieved. that is that did not again become a country in which transnational extremists can establish sanctuaries. you can see that the violence has escalated. you can see that there is a distinct cycle. the fighting takes place in the extreme winter and it slows down. during the summer, the fighting
season, the level of violence and security incidents. you can see how a levels have gone up, in particular 2007 and now. some of the reasons are because the forces are on the offensive and we are seeking to take away some of the safe havens. the taliban is trying to attack before we can build our forces up. you can see the forces in afghanistan.
the violence is largely concentrated in a variety of areas. this area it is the major poppy producing province and all of afghanistan. as it says right there, 10% of the district's have about 70% of the violence and that is where we have to focus our effort to help secure the population and separate the insurgents from the population. this shows where our forces are going. this is not in to geto get into classified information. the 10th brigade went in here. this is southwest of kabul.
the next was in combat aviation brigade. the marine expeditionary brigade that has been in the news so much because of the offensive that they have launched along the fish took which is the populated area of this province. they are operating now in the central and southern parts of that area. british comrades have launched defenses of their own further north. flowing in now is a striker combat team. these organizations are based in fort lewis.
the origin of this particular one, the name for the vehicles, they have done exceedingly well in iraq. they will focus on kandahar. we will take a brigade. this will separate the normal structure for the police and. there are some tough months ahead there and some difficult finding that will be necessary to secure as many districts as possible prior to the elections and then to continue the progress for the remainder of this fighting season.
because of iranian activity, we have an interesting situation in the arabian peninsula where many of our partners have expressed a desire to work with us that is uniquely strong since the gulf war. we have more patriot batteries back up in the gulf states. this made it all went back to the gulf war. there is a great deal of interest. there is the increasing development of delivering means. interest in early warning and missile defense. there are concerns about infrastructure that are vulnerable in certain areas and much more partnering going on to protect it. needless to say, concerned about maritime security and ensuring freedom of navigation. trying to disrupt and interdicted the arm struggling
a lot of activity that the proliferation of various components that can take place. there is an outreach: o going o with syria. there are a number of efforts to reach out to syria. one of our assistance secretaries of state have made trips to damascus. it would be interesting to see how this develops. the future lies with the arab world than with iran. given the economic challenges
and given the relative opportunities, one would think that would be the wave of the future. we will see what the impact of the of people might be. ambassador crocker and i'd visited arab countries while you're still in iraq. i thin in all of them -- i have been to all of them. i said, there should be an arab presence reestablishing trade. that has happened. the president of egypt was quite firm about that. then the effort to strengthen the lebanese armed forces.
certainly to build them patiently, slowly, so that they can become a legitimate armed force in their country as opposed to other elements that are there. yemen, i mentioned that our concerns with a threat of al qaeda. this has a link back to pakistan and then across to somalia. that is something in which we are focusing on helping the host nation. also taking a number of steps to combat piracy. i think that this is more because of the high seas associated with the month since. other factors are certainly contributing.
maritime companies are taking the steps that we advise them to take in the past. the three simplest of which are not being taken which is simple, speedup wednesday pirate -- win a pirate -- to win a pirate approaches you. the third is to take up the ladder. there is a ladder that is bolted on. if they take it up, it is tough to get up on some of these big ships. in a more serious note, the u.s. coast guard has issued instructions to the u.s. companies on which they are not
responsible. there are steps beyond that. the army security forces might be necessary overtime. the challenge is that somalia is a failed state. the authorities will have them back out in their boats before you can deploy anchor in some cases. i want to talk briefly about how we fight nowadays. other people say that all you do is countersue insurgency -- counter insurgency. let me tell you, our troopers can do real combat. we do it differently.
we gave them these assets. the commander of the airborne division, when it all began, we all saw what 41 unmanned aerial vehicle. now for one commander, we have these two which have full motion video and were armed. one was an intelligence agency, one was a special missions unit. then we had other unmanned. is a 24 hours a day circling the levels. all of them have a screen and a chat room. a pilots might be at an air force base, some might be at another in germany or in georgia. they are all in their chat room
with their equally indecipherable language. we have three teams of two attack helicopters each circling. we have bradley fighting vehicles, rocket systems, radars, talents with optics. all of this is focused on identifying the rocket teams and where the weapons were. once we got these going and we got all the pipes and everything else aligned and the key medications and command and control, on three different weakeneoccasions we controlled l teams. with minimal damage inside of
this city, some tough fighting along a particular line that we had to secure because it was an area in which rockets were being shot with considerable precision. this is how our troopers fight. all of the other highfliers, very exotic platforms. this is all pulled together at relatively low level. add brigade division levels. this is all the way down to special forces snipers. our forces can do this and this is quite an evolution. the key to all of this is our troopers. this is our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, coast guard.
this is a picture from july 4th of a little bit over a year ago. iris privilege in this occasion to reenlists -- i was privileged to reenlist these troops. they have made the progress. it is they and their counterparts and partners that have fought the tough fights and have sought to secure an preserve the people. i can tell you that there is no greater privilege than having served with them in the capacities that have been privileged to fill. thank you very much. [applause]
>> in this audience, but we have a number of returned veterans. we have parents of men and women that were serving overseas. one of the things that i want to do, you've spoken about the importance of being able to take an area to hold and then build on. a number of years ago, the council was fortune to have [inaudible] her challenge was that they were never able to spend $18 million.
they were responsible for the lives of 3500 men al is this working right now as you go to secure and serve the population? >>-- they will responsible for the lives of 3500 men. how is this working right now as you secure and serve the population? >> this is working pretty well. people were all pulling together but we did not have any money. we did go out and find some money and this is another story. we got them to spend that.
we could launch a half million dollar missile with a simple radio call and no one requires me to authenticate. this was the beginning of what has over time become the commanders reconstruction program. we had over $1 billion in the program this past year. our commanders have learned how to use that and the have been aware of the problems. this has been very successful in enabling small amounts of money to be spent expeditiously. on a new robin and worked very closely with her.
all the structures that we were able to establish did not exist at the time. there's a lot of hypocrisy. they were able to build structures which are not typical. we had a whole cell which did not work on this issue of reconciliation. -- which worked on the issue of reconciliation. i was on a teleconference talking precisely about comparing what were able to establish over time in iraq with "we had in afghanistan. the operational level try to detach all operations in iraq over time.
the headquarters put out a whole document which was called money as a weapon system. it talked about how you responsibly and properly and with due diligence determined what the projects are and then spend the money to execute. >> part of my role here is to get the audience into the conversation. we have a series of questions related to bin laden. i guess the question falls into why can't we find him?
>> i asked myself this question every morning. man hunts are tough. i think there was eric roth in the north carolina hills. we would have been able to find him if he had to come down and seat at a garbage pail in a state park or something. i was in bosnia and we were tracking down some of the war criminals. we had the best year in getting
them. in fact, milosevich was brought over in a deal. we chased karadic. as you all know, he was eventually found the selling of the medicines with a beard in belgrade. when you translate this to 16,000 foot mountains in which anyone who was not from the family from the tribe stands out like a sore frothumb. very good operational security. while he remains a very iconic and important symbolic figure, he is certainly not issuing even strategic direction much less day-to-day direction of any kind.
nonetheless, we would like to find him. he is also in an area in which we don't operate on the ground. that complicates things enormously. i a flow of the areas -- i have flown over these areas. you can have some sense of what it is i'm talking about. you can make them more remote than they already are. >> we have a series of questions here related to military goals. talking about the natural resources in iraq and afghanistan. are u.s. troops protecting these resources or is the u.s. working to exploit them? >> we is to get this in iraq all
the time. the enemy is free skillful at propagating conspiracy theories into killer. -- propagating conspiracy theories. we could have their oil whenever. hwe could have bought all of ths for about a year's worth of our operational expenses. that did convince iraqis when you did the math for them. this is not about minerals or pipeline wars or trying to corner the market. in fact, china is the one that got the first contract for oil
in iraq in part because the pricing scheme that they did was not all that advantageous to the countries. china and india are very active inside afghanistan, trying to get some of the iron ore and other minerals. >> we have a series of questions about reconcilable and irreconcilable differences. how does the dishes think about these issues to found the you determine what is -- new line held his leadership think about the -- -- how does leadership think about these issues? how do you determine what is reconcilable? >> one of the things that we had to get past is the idea that we were going to sit down and maybe
even make a deal with people that had our blood on their hands. we had to get past this to. i was very fortunate to have a good deputy. we had chased war criminals together. i knew him. he was a division commander in the beginning of the first year of iraq and we have some great changes during some interesting episodes during those early days. i asked him if the government extended them and they did. he sat down with us, he talked about northern ireland. he said he had to sit down with martin mcguinness. he was a fairly notable ira commander and a ve t