tv Defense Officials Testify on California National Guard Bonuses CSPAN December 7, 2016 2:00pm-4:01pm EST
many may not realize until visiting the uss arizona memorial that a united states marine detachment made up part of each battleship's company. 109 marines lost their lives that day. 105 perished aboard ships in pearl harbor and four were killed in action at the field. representing the united states marine corps is sergeant kempfield and park ranger acok of must next cnew mexico. will all of our marine corps veterans please stand as able? [ applause ] ♪
>> marine corps veterans, please be seated. united states navy. 1,999 sailors lost their lives in the december 7 attacks on pearl harbor. many sailors met their final resting place in these waters directly beneath us, while defending their ships and helping their ship mates escape the burning hulls. many more assisted in rescue and
>> navy veterans, please be seated. united states air force. though not yet a service in 1941, the united states air force was referred to as our army air corps and here as the hawaiian air force. on december 7, ken taylor and george welch stramibcrambled to aircraft and took off to brave the skies against incredible odds. representing the united states air force is captain clements and park ranger camcam of california. will all of our air force veterans please stand as able? [ applause ]
>> coast guard veterans, please be seated. thank you to our wreath presenters. would all pearl harbor survivors and world war ii veterans please remain seated so we can honor you. craig nelson's has a quote. i saw everything that went on there and i tell you what, there was more courage and more heroics and more valor and more sacrifice that day than a human being ought to see in ten lifetimes. to our survivors and veterans, you once bravely stood fast and tough, responded, recovered and prevailed. on december 7, 1941, and in the years that followed, you executed your duties at your
fighter aircraft that pie lots flew. as it shares many common features with the u.s. army air corps p-40 fighter. only 1,521 aircraft were managed with production ceasing in 1951. please rise as able and remain standing for the benediction, a marine corps taps. the navy chief of chaplains will offer the benediction. >> sure of god's presence among us this day let us pray for his benediction over our commemoration. all mighty and eternal god, on this day of infamy, we ask that you would bless the memory of the heros who distinguished themselves that fateful morning and in the days and years that followed.
though each passing year attempts to erase the impact of the countless sacrifices, guard us from ever neglecting the cost so many paid to preserve our freedoms and defend our liberty. inspired by the tributes offered to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice, awaken in us the same spirit of commitment that defied complacency in the face of evil. never allow us to forget that the ideals which defined our nation then are now the responsibility of every american citizen to uphold. keep us ever vigilant in the cause for peace and may we exemplify your mercy and remain in your grace. it is in the strength of your name we pray. amen. >> amen. >> stand by for rifle salute. hand salute.
>> on behalf of the national park service and united states navy, thank you for attending today's special observance of the 75th anniversary of the attack. honoring the past, inspiring the future, and remembering the sacrifices made by those who served here on december 7, 1941. to those who are watching our ceremony through our online broadcast we extend a sincere o aloha. we thank you for providing today's vintage aircraft tribute. thank you to the many volunteers who made today's ceremony possible. tugboats from joint base pearl harbor will be in the who bore conducting a water tribute. as a reminder, all pearl harbor military and civilian survivors as well as our world war two
veterans are invited to participate in the walk of honor tribute. guests may watch near the main entrance as service members from all branchs salute these men and women. please enjoy patriotic songs from the united states pacific fleet band aus you depend today. we hope you enjoy the rest of your day and you will always remember pearl harbor. thank you. [ applause ] ♪
all day saturday, american history tv is featuring programs about this week's 75th anniversary of the japanese attacks on pearl parlor. 8:00 a.m. eastern, national archives christopher carter reads from u.s. navy deck logs describing events on ships that were under attack in pearl harbor following by the casualty burial of john h. linsley. his remains were identified recently 75 years after the attack. then at 9:00, tour pearl parlha
attack sites with daniel martinez. 9:30, president roosevelt's speech to congress asking for a declaration of war. followed by the pearl harbor ceremony co-hosted by the national park service and navy. from 11:00 to 1:00, we are taking calls and tweets live. ian toll discussing the pacific war from the attack on pearl parlor through the us vehic.s. . the noon, live with paul trav s travers. giving a behind the scenes acount of the japanese attack from his more than 200 interviews with veterans. then at 1:00, the pearl harbor 75th anniversary ceremony from washington, d.c. with keynote remark biz arizona senator john mccain. saturday on american history tv
on c-span3. money to fund the federal government expires this coming friday. meaning congress must pass temporary spending to keep the government from shutting down. today the house rules committee will take up legislation that would fund the federal government into april of next year. the rules committee will be meeting today at 3:00 p.m. eastern. you will watch that meeting live here on c-span3. over on c-span2 at 3:00, senators will pay tribute to joe biden. as vice-president he served as president of the senate for the past eight years. he served as u.s. senator from delaware from 1973 to 2009. we are expecting the vice-president to preside over the senate for those speeches. you can ee see it live at 3:00 . eastern. earlier today we spoke with the history professor, timothy neftali about pearl parlor's impact on the u.s.
>> we end our program where we began today on the 75th anniversary on the attack on pearl harbor. tim joins us from new york for this discussion. i know you previously taught at the university of hawaii and would occasionally give your students tours of pearl harbor. do you find that students today understand the legacy of pearl harbor? >> well, yes, i do. i haven't taught in hawaii for a number of years. there's nothing quite like visiting an historical site to get a sense of history and of the importance of historical events. and the na tional park service does an incredible job. it's one of the finest national park service sites in the country. even today, in new york, there's a sense and understanding of pearl wharbor because of 9/11.
9/11 was and is always compared to pearl harbor, not only because it is one of the only two times that we have suffered such a loss of life by an attack by outsiders on our homeland but also the fact that it was a surprise. the fact that the u.s. policy making community, the washington policy community was completely taken by surprise. so for that reason, despite the fact that it's been 75 years, millennials know something about pearl harbor. >> are there lessons that apply to both that the new president taking over should look to as he looks to foreign policy in the future? >> well, yes. in fact, not just to make this about president-elect trump but any president has to keep in mind why america has been surprised. pearl harbor -- we learned this -- i think the most important material on pearl harbor became available 20 years
ago, after the cold war ended. the nsa, national security agency, came up with materials that had -- that was in their holdings that showed that if we had been decrypting the right message traffic, if we hadn't focused on japanese diplomatic messages but instead had been focusing on the japanese naval siefer, we would have been able to pick up the clues. we could have had the dots to connect to know that the attack would be on hawaii. there's no disagreement among historians that the roosevelt administration expected some kind of aggressive act by japan in december of 1941. the issue was where. would the japanese attack a british kol any? would the japanese attack philippines, which was an american colony or would they attack hawaii? almost no one thought they would attack hawaii. the lesson for the policymaker today is to -- is to keep a very open mind and not to get stuck
in group think. in 2001, people worried about bin laden. the assumption was he would attack abroad. he would not attack in the united states. it's what are your assumptions, checking them, being critical, getting the intelligence community to collect as much as it can. those are the lessons of pearl harbor and 9/11. >> why those lessons are intelligence coordination and the fear of group think or the dangers of group think? why do we have to keep relearning those lessons? >> because it's very hard to predict change. it's so much easier -- if you think about -- if you think about events and you've got these fine patriots who were in the analytical community. if you have these fine people who are in the national security council, they are basing their predictions of the future on past events.
that's what we do. and it's very hard to predict an anomaly or outlier. what you need are either a group of people who are going to act as if they were the enemy or just another team that's going to critique the basic assumptions of the intelligence community. but you need people outside to say, why do you believe that? what's your basic assumption? are you certain about that? that's very hard to do. particularly for busy people, because a president and his national security team, they have to worry about five different things at once. and not all of them are foreign policy issues. a president also thoos has to b concerned about domestic issue u.s. it's getting the person's attention long enough to question his assumptions. >> give the phone numbers if you want to join in the conversation with the professor. republicans -- we're doing it by regional time zones. if you are in the eastern or central united states, it's 202-748-8000. in the mountain or pacific
region, 202-748-8001. we will bring back the special line for world war ii veterans. would like to hear from you in this segment. 202-748-8002 is that number. we will talk about this until the house comes in at about 9:00 today. professor, as viewers are calling in, is there a lesson on isolationism versus engagement and the limits of diplomacy and economic deterrents? >> well, what's going to be very exciting for all analysts, historians and all citizens of this country is to see the debate that we have as a people beginning january 20th. are we tired of being at the center of the international system? if you take president-elect trump's rhetoric at face value, he is arguing for a fortress america, for basically being as
powerful as we can be at home and not using that power abroad. that's a different philosophy from the philosophy that has shaped a bipartisan foreign policy strategy since pearl harbor. americans have believed themselves to be a necessary player in world security. the lesson for us and for a lot of our allies was if the united states doesn't play a role in east asia or europe, those regions can spiral out of control. the united states can be an honest broker and stabilize situations there. now, if we're fortress america, we're not doing that anymore. the american people are going to have to decide as they see the effects of fortress america whether they are happy with abandoning a role that we have carried for 75 years. >> let's go to the phones. while we go to bob from bronx, new york, we will page through some of the headlines from some
of the papers around the country today on the 75th anniversary of the attack at pearl harbor. bob, go ahead. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. professor, i know every anniversary of pearl harbor drums up the controversy or the conspiracy theory of roosevelt's role of getting us into war, whether the surprise attack was really a surprise. where do you stand on that issue? >> you know, the answer is very -- is as simple as understanding roosevelt's love of model ships. you know, roosevelt was in a wheelchair. he selected stamps. he also put together model ships. why do i say that? because for the conspiracy to make sense, president roosevelt, who had been assistant secretary to the navy in world war i, would have been prepared to sacrifice his beloved navy to get us into war.
if we could bring him back today and sit him down in front of the cameras and ask him, he would admit to you, yes, i wanted to go to war, sir, in 1941. and then he would say, but i wanted to go to war against the nazis, because the germans represented the gravest threat to world civilization and american security, not the japanese. the great unexpected event of 1941 after pearl aharbor was hitler declared war on the united states. had hitler not declared war on the united states -- he promised the japanese he would do it -- it would have been hard for the united states to pivot against the nazis which the roosevelt administration considered the biggest threat. if he was thinking of a conspiracy it would have been involving the nazis, not the japanese. he didn't know in advance that hitler would be helpful to declare war on the united states. >> let's head to arizona. saul is waiting. good morning. you are on with the professor.
>> caller: hello. i wanted to share with your people on tv that i witnessed december 7, 1941 as a child. i was born in hawaii, raised in hawaii. i had friends that were japanese. the woman that delivered me -- the midwife that delivered me was japanese. i lived there during the second world war, remembered pearl harbor, the planes flying overhead. the smoke that is coming. my mom crying. getting us kids in the house. to get us away from the danger. we lost people in our area that died from friendly fire, ships
flying at pearl harbor and landing in our area, killed people in our neighborhood. i remember that we had to dig in our yard. windows we couldn't look out of because the panes were painted black. i served in the military. i served in the army during vietnam and retired from the military. but this day is a special day for me because i remember pearl harbor. i made it through there. i remembered the camps during the second world war and us having to run in the bunkers, you know, hastily built, a hole in the ground with dirt on the top. i just wanted to share that. i was watching your program. this is a hell of a day.
it stuck with me. >> we appreciate you sharing that memory with us. have a special line for world war two veterans but want to hear from anybody that has a memory of that day. professor, on the 75th anniversary, we have fewer and fewer people who were there that day that can share those memories. is there any substitute for you from hearing those personal stories? >> well, first of all, it's so easy to get caught up in the abstract nature of pearl harbor. your caller reminds us it's a human event. it's a tragedy. 3,000 people died. it was a tremendous blow not simply to american prestige but to the people of hawaii and to the u.s. navy and the air force -- there wasn't an air force but the army air force and the army. it was a terrific -- it was a horrible day, terrifying day.
when we lose the people who were there, we lose that connection to a human event. it's always sad. one of the deeper more profound elements of a visit to pearl harbor -- i haven't been there for some time. was that your guide was somebody who was a veteran of that day. so you could ask the person what it was like. there's no substitute for talking to somebody who was there. >> some of the stories in today's paper focusing on those personal stories. we will show you some of those. lorraine's up in california. lorraine, good morning. >> caller: thank you for the country. i w i was 4 when pearl harbor happened. i came from an american indian family. very patriotics. they were republicans in those days. i heard politics talked all the time because my parents were very young.
when they had me they were off working and supporting the family. my grandparents were a gathering place for community. they were well respected and had been part of building up this little town which was ground zero for the gold rush. the maes occssacre of the indiae holocaust that took place and genocide of our people about 120,000 people were killed in those days with the smallpox blankets. getting back to pearl harbor, i remember we had to have these blank o blankout shades over the windows because we were afraid japan was going to attack the west coast. we were a couple of hours from the pacific ocean here. everyone was alerted to that. my father's sisters were living, my aunts, and they volunteered to be -- they were -- they set
up -- a mountain here called table mountain and there was a lookout place there. they would go up at night and watch for lights in the sky. i mean, this whole coast was being barricaded at that time. this man mentioned bunkers. there's still some at one end of the golden gate bridge. everything was just being -- guarding everything they could. trying to make sure that they didn't -- we did not get atta attacked here. >> thanks for the call from oregon this morning. professor, on that point, talking about the defenses and the ubnited states, did japan have a reasonable expectation that they would defeat the united states? that they would invade the united states? you talk about the mindset from their viewpoint going into that war. >> well, two points. one about the japanese mindset. the architect of the attack was
yamamoto who spent time in the united states. c he could speak english. his argument to the high command and emperor was the only way for japan to expand in asia and create the east asian co-prosperity sphere, their empire, was to knock out the american military force in the pacific. the americans were going to defend the old british and dutch territories. as europe was suffering under nazi occupation or nazi strain, the nazis didn't occupy great britain, thank goodness. the japanese saw an opportunity in east asia. the only power that could stop them was the united states. yamamoto said the americans have to be knocked out. they don't want war. the japanese, like the germans, watched american politics and understood it was a 50/50 split between interventionists and
isolationists in the country, tilting more to isolationist. they knew in 1940, roosevelt had wonising not to go into war. the japanese felt the only way to do it was to knock out the u.s. pacific fleet, a direct blow that would force the americans back. of course, he made a mistake. he thought if you hit the american people hard enough, they're going to back away. in fact, the opposite occurred. the blunder -- the tactical blunder by yamamoto is that the attack did not knock out the pacific fleet. it was horrendous. about 3,000 people died. but the aircraft carriers, america's aircraft carriers were out of the harbor. the japanese therefore didn't hit them. the japanese also didn't hit the strategic oil reserve. they could have knocked out the fleet for some time if they had blown up all the oil drums. they didn't.
the attack that he had planned, which was to knock the americans out of the war, didn't happen. the japanese did not have a very serious plan for the invasion of the united states. the key was to force america to stop being an asia power. i was going to make one quick point about fear. in 2001, the bush administration learned from pearl harbor in that roosevelt out of fear, out of politics, interned the japanese. that's an important and sad part of the story. after 9/11, george w. bush went to a mosque and made it clear that america's war was not with muslims and muslims were not viewed in this country as a filth columfil fifth column. we learn from our mistakes in the past. >> a lesson that we need to learn again today do you think? >> i'm trying -- i don't want to
be too didactic. let me say with students and others, hi remind them of president bush's visit to a mosque. it was very important in the days after 9/11. that's a message of unity that i hope hasn't been forgotten. >> as we talk about the 75th anniversary of pearl harbor, we will send saturday on american history tv on c-span3 talking about remembering, hearing the words of those who were there, their stories. it begins at 8:00 a.m. this saturday morning on c-span3. back to the phones. ivan is calling in on the line for world war ii veterans. florida, ivan, good morning. thanks for calling. >> caller: i remember this day like it was yesterday. i was bowling with my father in new york. we went to get a coke in between bolding.
the radio announcer said we interrupt this program to tell the people that the japanese had bombed pearl harbor. in 1945, i was in the pacific. you could see the tails of the b-29s. those days were different. we enlisted about the same time. i thank you for your program today. >> professor, what did you hear? >> i want to thank you for the service. it's hard not to be moved. by the voices of that incredible generation. that fought in two very different parts of the world to defend this country. also defend values in civilization. we're very grateful to that man and the others like him and
those who can't speak for themselves anybody. >> 16 million americans served in world war ii. by estimates from the department of veterans affairs. 620,000 of them were still alive in this country the beginning of this year. 372 world war ii veterans die each day in this country. let's go to john in florida. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i was reading a book here recently. they gave some specifics about world war ii. what they said was that 67% of the allied soldiers captured by the japanese died in captivity. when they talked about germany, they said it was, i think, less than 1% of the allied soldiers captured by the germans died in captivity. it speaks a little bit about
cruelty and compassion, does it not? >> well, i don't know the figures. i do know that -- it's -- there's no question that the german military followed the aga aga geneva convention better than the japanese. it's hard to give compassion to the german war effort. there's no question that if you were an allied pow, your chances were better if you were captured by the germans than the japanese. the japanese gave us the baton death march. the japanese showed incredible cruelty to pows. as i said, yes, the germans
showed more compassion. but that was unusual. >> i want to get your thoughts on president obama announcing he will meet with the japanese prime minister at the end of the month and will be headed to the uss arizona memorial there, the two heads of state will go to mark what happened at pearl harbor. what do you make of these incidents and sort of the old wounds that they perhaps open up? are these a good thing? when should they happen? >> john, i don't think this is an opening of wounds. i think this is a healing of wounds. i think that the president's visit to hiroshima was a way of healing wounds. but if the president of the united states went to hiroshima and that was it, then the message is not complete. the book end is pearl harbor. you don't have hiroshima without pearl harbor. it is time for japanese pria ja
minister to go to the arizona, to pay his respects to the people his country killed in 1941. i think it's part of the healing process. a very -- what may surprise some viewers is the way our government officially handled pearl harbor. i'm talking about years after the event. when you would visit pearl harbor, until they changed the film in the 1990s, the film almost didn't -- the film you would watch as a visitor hardly mentioned the japanese. that's because the u.s. navy was trying to build a stronger relationship with japan and didn't want to push japan's nose into the dirt of pearl harbor. it was for political reasons. in the 1990s, the film talked about japanese expansionism, japanese imperialism, japanese objectives. made it clear that japan was the aggressor.
the united states didn't force the japanese to attack pearl harbor. it was a more historically accurate picture. the united states for a long time in the cold war was not sure how to deal with japan about pearl harbor. the fact that now we have reached the point -- it's long enough in the past -- that the japanese prime minister can come see pearl harbor and understand the pain the japanese aggression caused is a good thing for u.s. japanese relations and for east asia. >> a few more headlines from our viewers from newspapers around the country this morning. here is the "indianapolis star." the headline there, we remember. the front page of "the baltimore sun," bloody assault that resounded is the headline there. and the headline from "the miami herald," pearl harbor veterans says soldiers across generations can unite. back to the phones. jim is in colorado. jim, you are on with the professor. >> caller: thank you.
i always appreciate the opportunity to talk to a historian about this. when i look back at pearl harbor, i mean it's talked about today as an incident and one epic. i look at the period of the depression and world war ii all under fdr as almost if you said that was day one of american history. and everything that's happened since, whether it's the formation of israel, the united nations, the cold war, appointment of the secretary of defense and the rules around that, everything that -- today's history leading to 2016 actually is a direct fallout of what happened in world war ii. and the depression under fdr. i'd love to hear any thoughts you might have around that linking of history. >> go ahead. >> sir, i completely agree with you.
i teach a class or international history. i start with world war ii. it's a class on espionage. the american concept of national security developed out of the american work -- the american alliance with the british in world war ii. it taught the united states about the role of intelligence. the united states did not have an intelligence community, per se, in the 1930s. the very first time the president of the united states had somebody gather information for him in one place to make sense of it was in 1941 when general william donovan becomes the coordinator of the information. he would lead something called the oss, the office of strategic services. so our concept of the role of intelligence in policy making, that comes from world war ii. of course, our concept of government. there will always be a debate about the size of government. it's very held healthy.
there are certain things all americans expect whether they are conservative or democrat or somewhere in between. there are certain things -- certain services. those services stem from the depression. they stem from the period when our economy collapsed. you are right, whether it's domestically, the depression or foreign policy because of world war ii, we are -- we are the legacy of franklin roosevelt and the roosevelt era. >> let's go to dave in florida. good morning. >> caller: good morning. thanks for the opportunity. i hear very little about the squadron which my dad was a part of flying into pearl off of the enterprise. he was a radioman gunner. and he relates to me how they saw black smoke and thought it was sugar cane burning, which was apparently that time of the year.
until he saw the japanese planes. the enterprise squadron actually engaged a lot of the zeros. not much is talked about that. when they were attacked by the zeros, of course, they fought back. but they were so outnumbered, they had to maneuver down to the sea, fly -- basically fly away. my dad ended up landing on an outlying island. the marines stationed on that island basically confiscated his -- i don't flknow it was a cal or 50 cal off of the plane because they were expecting an invasion. it took them a week to get back to the enterprise. it just so happened that a radioman gunner on another was killed during pearl. my dad was assigned to this radioman gunner's position.
and they went on to go through midway in which my dad was instrumental in helping. he ended up getting a distinguished flying cross a distinguished flying cross as an enlisted man after the battle of midway. it's something he never talked about, but the squadrons did engage and they were getting hell from the ground and the air so they had to get out of there. >> thanks for sharing the story. professor naftali was there something you wanted to pick up on from the story. >> two quick points. first of all, to get back to what we were discussing earlier, theres no substitute for people's recollections or the recollections that they share with their children and their children pass on to us. there's no substitute. that's history, that's story telling. that's wonderful. the other point i would make is americans fought back at pearl harb harbor. there wasn't just one japanese
wave, there were two big waves of attacks and so americans did fight back, there are individual stories of heroism, people using anti-aircraft guns, people getting up into planes an engaging the zeros as was discussed. so pearl harbor is not just being caught off guard, it's also an attack or a defensive response by the united states. so the united states it was a day of courage in addition to tragedy. the other thing i would mention is that to understand one of the reasons why this was such a surprise, look at a map. it's one of those moments when maps really are helpful. hawaii is in the middle of the pacific and for the japanese to have launched a surprise attack they would have had -- and they did -- to have sent a strike force all the way through the north pacific without breaking radio silence and they would
have had to figure out how to refuel because those ships needed to be refueled along the way and they would have to do that and then launch a surprise attack. the united states when america and when president roosevelt and his team looked at the map they said, well, if japanese are going to attack us they're going to attack the philippines, it's much closer to their basis in end owe china than hawaii. nobody has ever done an attack like that before. well, unfortunately the united states underestimated the japanese, but you have to understand the japanese had to do something extraordinary to attack the united states by surprise at pearl harbor. it's not just american hubris, it was the fact that the japanese were much better than the united states had ever imagined them to be and it was a real strategic victory or seemed to be a strategic victory in those first days after pearl harbor because of the technical sophistication that the japanese
had shown. >> rossville, georgia is up next, matthew is on the line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i have two things to say, one of them is about internment camps, there was a japanese internment camp on lookout mountain in chattanooga, tennessee, here for the japanese and those people were treated really well. an internment camp just doesn't take a possible enemy and keep them from fighting, but it keeps from the radicals and the bad people that would go try to kill them. internment camps are good. and we're not fighting muslims, we're fighting the islamist terrorists. to even think that we're going to take all the muslims in america and put them in an internment camp is just -- is ridiculous. the other thing was that there was a japanese ambassador in hawaii watching the movements of ships, watching the movement of the men, the supplies and
sending that message back to japan so they knew when they were going to hit -- hit hawaii, but fdr knew that 11 days before it happened and it's a shame that now that those papers are coming out that fdr, he was a proud man, it was a shame that he was in a wheelchair, didn't want the american people to know that that was a part of his life, but he didn't want people to know that america could be attacked like they were and he let down -- >> professor naftali, shaking your head there at that if you want to jump in on the history here. >> i would deep respect, sir, profoundly disagree. there aren't new documents that have come out to change this. this is really important. we have to stop getting stuck in these conspiracy rabbit holes. there have been conspiracies in our history. watergate was a conspiracy, i
know something about that, i was founding director of the richard nixon library so i know something about that. to some extent the iran-contra was a conspiracy, there was a conspiracy to kill not only lincoln but his cabinet. there are other moments in history for which people glom on history where there was no conspiracy. there's absolutely no evidence that franklin roosevelt knew in advance that there would be an attack on pearl harbor. there aren't new documents, the best new ones were those that came out in the '90s which had to do with what we didn't know but could have known before pearl harbor, that's the jn-25 series, the japanese naval intercepts. the messages, the caller -- and i say this with respect because i know there is a lot of misinformation out there -- that the information about what the japanese spy was reporting back
to -- back to tokyo, congress that investigated pearl harbor in 1945 and '46 made that public. so that's been in the air for almost 70 years or actually 70 years now. that's not new. what i ask everyone to do who has these data points is to sit back and actually say, did they tell franklin roosevelt that there would be an attack on pearl harbor? no. what these things showed was a japanese espionage interest in pearl harbor which was among a lot of data points which could have been for sabotage. all right? there's nothing that says that this was for an air strike. that's one. two, the data that roosevelt had 11 days before or in the days before was about the fact the japanese were going to go to war. the japanese were going to bust up their code machines, which is usually a sign that they're
going to go to war with you in their embassy in washington. the question was where. and the like least place was the philippines. yes, there should have been more imagination. yes, the hawaiian commanders who were later made scapegoats of should have been given more information. they were just sent a war warning. a lot of things should have happened and, yes, the roosevelt administration made mistakes, but to think that roosevelt had this clear picture that hawaii would be attacked and let it happen, that's to misunderstand the man and that's unfortunately the kind of conspiracy thinking that has been weakening our country because it leads people to be deeply cynical about their elected officials. be skeptical of them, but you don't have to be cynical. >> the caller also talked about internment camps. he said internment camps are good. can you talk about the effectiveness of what the united states government was trying to do there and did it work?
>> well, i don't really want to engage in a discussion about internment camps being good. i'm sorry. enemy nationals were -- not just japanese but germans and italians were put in internment camps in world war ii, but i really -- i don't think this is the time to be talking about internment camps. i think this is the time to go back to your -- the caller's other point which is that this is currently a struggle with islamic extremism, it's not a struggle with islam and it's not a struggle with american muslims. i think this is -- the debate about muslim register, a muslim internment system is so dangerous that i don't want to go down that road by talking about the advantages or disadvantages of internment camps in world war ii. >> athens, georgia, is next. jimmy is on the line. good morning. >> caller: good morning.
i was going to ask about the internment camps. i just want to know were there any people who actually were spies in the internment camps that we kept from? but my other question was really about the isolationist movement in america and how that had been growing until pearl harbor and then it just completely died after that and there really has never been any isolationist movement in america since then. can you talk about that, please. >> i don't have a figure, sir, for the number of spies that were taken, but, look, there is no question that there were a handful of japanese americans, at most a handful, that spied on behalf of japan. that's out of thousands and thousands and thousands. the question everybody has to have in their mind is do you allow a few bad apples to deprive a huge group of people
of their basic constitutional rights because the japanese that we interned were not japanese who were here as tourists they were japanese americans, many of them were born here. so that's really the issue, which is in a democracy like ours, in a institutional state how do you balance fear of espionage with basic constitutional rights. there are many people who would say that you weed out the bad apples but you don't throw away the system while you're doing it. so that's that point. and the second question was, john -- what was the -- >> one thing i did want to did you about before we leave that topic is just next to our being here in washington, d.c. is the japanese american memorial to patriotism during world war ii, a memorial that they say the national park service on their
website say reflects the legacy of the japanese internment camps in the united states during world war ii. can you talk a little bit about how the united states government has come to view those actions during the war and the genesis of that memorial? >> well, a constitutional law expert will do that better than me so i apologize anybody out -- this is the bare outlines of the story it's not my specialty, but what i know is that the supreme court, i think the case is koramatsu, this is a japanese american who sued the government. the supreme court found in favor of the government, but what happened over time is that other cases began to erode the supreme court -- >> we're going to break away from the last couple of minutes of this. you can always watch it online at cspan.org. we will take you over live now for the house rules committee at
the capitol hill. congress needs to pass a temporary spending bill to keep the government from shutting down. the rules committee meeting now to get that bill ready for debate on the house floor. this is texas republican pete sessions chairing and louise slaughter the democrat from new york the ranking member. live coverage here on c-span 3. >> -- to maintain funding at the current budget cap level of $1.07 trillion until april 28th, 2017. this legislation includes overseas contingency operation funds including $5.8 billion for the department of defense and $4.3 billion for the state department to support military efforts in the fight against isis and other threats that are being made against this nation and to support the readiness of our troops wherever they may be in harm's way in light and in darkness and in heat and in cold
as they protect this great nation with their faithful missions that stand before them. the second bill under consideration, the water infrastructure improvements for the nation act is a comprehensive legislation that addresses the needs of american harbors, locks, dams, flood protection, other water resources that protect our infrastructure that are critical to the nation's economic growth, health and competitiveness. there has been a lot of work done on this bill also and we're pleased to no he that it will be before us today. this legislation follows a strong bipartisan reforms included in the water resources reform and development act of 2014 and it adheres to the process congress established in the 2014 law for oversight review and consideration of water resources development activities of the corps of engineers. i'd like to welcome some of my
favorite chairmen back to the rules committee today. yes, sir, my big brother fred upton is going to be here, the gentleman from pennsylvania bill shuster is going to be here, bob bishop who has graduated from the rules committee as chairman of the national resources committee, among my favorite of all the chairmen in this house, you know that the work is going to get done when these chairmen show up, they have done homework, they have worked on a bipartisan methodology basis, they're making sure that the best interest of taxpayers is taken care of, but we're going to move forward with great exuberance to unleash in this great nation an opportunity for the american people to know that the people's work has been accomplished. so before we go any further i also want to thank the gentleman from pennsylvania mike doyle. coach, thank you for being here today, if you will please take this seat up here we appreciate it. before we come to you without
objection we look forward to your testimony and we are going to defer to the gentlewoman, the young woman from new york for any opening statements she'd choose to make. >> the young woman couldn't make it today. >> well, you're here, louise, and that's good enough for me. >> i have no opening statement. i just thank you as usual for your good work. thank you. >> thank you. >> and i will put peter's statement in in a little bit. >> good. thank you very much. >> okay. look, she's not here yet, a lot of members are busy this afternoon, but we're going to also wish virginia foxx the very best. these flowers that are here in celebration of virginia's years of service not only to this committee but also to the house of representatives, mrs. fox will be leaving the rules committee to assume grown chairmanship. she will be doing this this january 3rd but until then she's going to have to put up with some flowers and kind words, we will wait until she gets here before we do that.
i'm delighted we are ready to go. we're going to now open up testimony on s-612 that is all -- i did ask the gentleman mr. doyle to please come forth and i will ask him again. mike, do you mind sitting right there. yes, we're going to share that microphone. you are into sharing today. >> sure. >> good. okay. i'm going to first go to the gentleman from pennsylvania, the gentleman, the chairman of the committee, the gentleman mr. shuster is now recognized. >> thank you very much, chairman sessions and ranking member slaughter. for the record, though, i'd like to point out my colleague from pennsylvania is the manager of the other people not just a coach so i just want to make sure that's clear. you didn't get demoted, did you, mike mike? >> not that i'm aware of. >> if i can make you you have those green lights on. thank you very much. >> again, i want to thank the rules committee for considering s-612, the water infrastructure improvement for the nation or
the wynn act. this comprehensive water infrastructure bill includes water infrastructure development act as title 1 and i want to thank ranking member dee fez joe for working with me on that and and the ranking member will submit his statement for the record. however, this is a bigger than just word, i also want to thank the energy and commerce chairman, chairman upton and natural resources chairman rob bishop for working with me. and this is an example of where we have shared jurisdiction, where we worked very well together and there is no need for us to take either one's jurisdiction, we can come together and work together to get this type of legislation done. it's been a great pleasure working with these two gentlemen and i certainly want to thank our counterparts in the senate for helping us working with us on this. i'm not going to describe the two chairmen's titles, but the wynn act is a wynn for america
because it includes the water resources and development act which the house passed in september with 399 to 25. this legislation provides important direction for the congress to the army corps of engineers in their mission to improve our infrastructure, it creates jobs and grows the economy. the wynn act maintains congress' constitutional authority to ensure our infrastructure is safe and effective and i think that's for me one of the most important things and i hope we as we move forward in congress continue to claw back our constitutional authority so that it has to go through congress and not just through the bureaucracies downtown. following our reforms from the 2014 water bill we've increased transparency and we are empowering, again, the congressional authorization process. this bill contains authorizations for 30 chiefs reports, eight post authorization change reports for projects across the united states, all core projects authorized are locally driven, reviewed by the corps of
engineers according to strict criteria, presentation to congress for consideration for water bills. these improvements are critical local and regional priorities that provide significant national, economic and environmental benefits. for just an example of some of the provisions included in this bill that positively impact regions and states throughout the country, the authorization for the everglades port, port everglades, authorization for boston harbor, provision pertaining to kettiwhich c icke authorization for the upper ohio river, authorizations for two army corps district headquarters that cover western new york and massachusetts, an authorization for improvements throughout texas and many, many more. these and other water provisions aren't just critical for parts of the country they are important for the nation as a whole. in addition the bill increases flexibility, removes barriers for state, local and non-federal
interests to help build infrastructure. this measure is also fiscally responsible. we deauthorized $10 billion and we authorized just shy of $10 billion so they're fully offset in the authorizations are. further the bill reduces the deficit by half a billion dollars. the bill sun sets new authorizations to help prevent future backlogs and the act pertains no ear marks. i don't know if i'm particularly happy about that but i needed to say it. today's legislation restores -- [ inaudible ]. >> thank you very much, fred. >> today's legislation restores regular order, the two-year cycle of congress considering these essential bills this has been one of my top priorities. there were only three water bills enacted between 2,000 and 2014, i think that record is unacceptable. every delay in regularly passing a water bill places america another step behind our competitors. next year we plan on moving another water bill. this bill maintains our competitiveness by advancing
crucial water resources, infrastructure improvements, restoring regular order and getting congress back on that two-year water cycle. i want to thank my colleagues for considering this and i ask all my colleagues to support water and the wynn act. >> mr. bishop, i want to take a second and tell you that this committee has missed you, we're proud of the work that you're doing in natural resources or at least most of the members of the committee are very pleased with your work. we're going to give you a chance to defend that now that you're recognized. >> thank you, i think. our section of this bill probably dwarfs the other sections of the bills as far as number of pages that are there and clearly subtitle c is easily the best part of the bill that we are presenting which happens to be mine. so the concept obviously is the water issues are extremely important to the arid west but this is not just for the west of the of the 29 states that are impacted a and helped with this
particular bill only 17 of them are found in the west plus indian country at the same time. this bill specifically goes back to help native americans by repairing -- or authorizing the repairing of their aged dams and irrigation canals. it finalizes native american right settlements in california and oklahoma and in montana and it also has some land exchanges and transfers to native american communities which were successful. in addition to goes to lake tahoe with sound force management areas that have been added into this particular pill and it also helps other communities in the west battle the drought simply by authorizing storage and even a local alternatives like desalination and water resick cling but the basic premise behind our section of the bill is the water is going to be raining down, catch it and store it for the future. i hope you got the idea that we have an indian water settlement
in oklahoma, i want to make that very clear. [ inaudible ]. >> all right. there also is the ability of doing some provisions in there so that if you have a reclamation project and you wish to pay it back early it authorizes you to do that. that could bring up to $600 million yearly into additional revenue coming into the country if we simply allow that. finally the california piece of this has been negotiated with the senior senator from california, a democrat, whos in favor of this as well as the majority leader from our side who is a republican from california and they've been able to come up with elements of the bill that we passed taking out many of the controversial parts and things that were finally agreed upon by those two individuals which is not a total solution to the problem but it is a very good step forward to it and it does so without undermining the endangered species act. i say it does not undermine the endangered species act not as a way of applauding this effort but simply as a matter of fact.
i would be happy to invalidate that endangered species act but this doesn't do this. this reinforces what's going on. it has been endorsed by the national council of the american indians to the family farm alliance and it's been vetted, i think it's a good addition to the bill. i will answer any questions when that time comes. >> martin luther kir. chairman, much. chairman upton i see you're joined by one of your colleagues, the gentleman from pennsylvania, i know that both of you enjoy the opportunity of being here today. i'm going to defer to the gentleman from michigan first and then come back to the gentleman from pennsylvania who i believe has an amendment that he would like to seek this committee to move forward with so we are going to have you wait for just a second if you can, sir. the gentleman from michigan, chairman upton you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i will be brief. i'm going to submit my statement for the record and just say a couple things. first of all, this bill is fully offset, second, it included a new program to provide grants to small and economically disadvantaged communities to aid
in household water quality testing and general compliance with the drinking water act requirements. we have a new program for flint. i know that we all care about flint and i want to complement the efforts of dan kildee or colleague to not only bring it to our attention but see legislation move forward that we think can reach the president's desk. with mr. kildee he and i -- you can point the finger at all levels of government for flint and we learned sadly that the epa knew about this well in advance as well. so one of the things that we passed on the house floor and every member of this committee voted for it as a separate bill on the floor, 412 to 2, we mandate that when federal agenda like epa is aware of water systems that are contaminated that they immediately literally within 24 hours have to inform
the governor and the state to let them know and not let it languish for months if not years. that language is included in this bill and i want to particularly thank mr. shuster as we worked really well together on this to get it in the last couple days of this congress. as it relates to the aid of communities like flint in essence it's a two-stage process, one is the authorization which is part of this water authorization, the other is the money. the front of the check. that's in the cr. and i want to complement speaker ryan for continuing his pledge to make sure that there is the money that is going to be there but we authorized $100 million in additional capital zags greats to state revolving loan funds to aid states where the president has declared a disaster related to public health threats associated with the presence of lead or other drinking water contaminants in a public water system.
we authorized another $20 million for the creation of a lead registry and advisory committee at the cdc and also boosted the childhood lead poisoning prevention program at cdc and healthy start initiative. so in other words what we're saying what happened in flint can happen other places and we want to make sure that those communities are helped as well and that's why our legislation, the kildee-upton bill passed with such a large margin last february. after multi-year multi-congress effort we are closer than ever to enacting reforms concerning coal ash. i'd like to say that section 2301 provided for the establishment of a state and epa permit for a coal combustion standards. i can say with an absolute straight face that this was a bipartisan solution and we are all glad that it's done. it's part of this bill and again i want to particularly thank chairman shuster for the -- for
the two, that we did together and i look forward to speaking in support of the bill on the house floor and i yield back. >> welcome to the rules committee. we are delighted that you're here. we don't see you as much as we wish you would come so the gentleman is recognized. >> mr. chairman, thank you, ranking member slaughter, members of the committee, thank you very much for consideration my bipartisan amendment which i'm offering with my good friend walter jones from north carolina to the water infrastructure improvement acts. i think this is an amendment that will make a good bill even better. let me just say for the record to chairman upton and chairman shuster for the record that i believe that penn state and michigan should have been in the final four -- >> will the gentleman yield for one second? >> remember i was on the super committee a few years ago. that was going to be an amendment at the end. both the cubs and the wolverines were going to be in the playoffs no matter what. >> i just want the record to
reflect that those two teams got hosed and ohio state shouldn't be in there. >> if they bring a resolution praising ohio state they better know the name of that ref to include as a provision in the title of that -- >> thank you. mr. chairman, i will get back to my amendment. thank you. this amendment is very simple, all this is going to do is to codify the buy america provisions for the epa's drinking water state revolving fund making them permanent. this isn't something new, this merely just brings them into line with all other federal infrastructure programs. other clean water programs like the epa's clean water state revolving fund and the water infrastructure finance innovation act programs have permanent buy america provisions other major taxpayer financed federal programs like the department of transportation's funding for highways, transit, rail, have permanent buy america provisions. the senate voted 95 to 3 to make the buy american requirement for
the drinking water state revolving fund permanent. for some reason that got changed in this bill to a provision with just a one-year extension causing a lot of concern and uncertainty for our american companies and their workers. i believe this last minute change undercuts our steel industry, our iron industry, our cement industry and the workers that support it nationwide. our country depends on good manufacturing jobs to support their families and this amendment would give those families peace of mind. chairman shuster knows we watch commercials in western pennsylvania during this presidential election where our president elect said that he wants to rebuild america's infrastructure and he wants to use american steel to do that. i agree with the president elect on that, we should be using american steel. our tax dollars should hip preserve their communities across the nation that are
struggling. my colleague congressman jones and i both think that the workers in these industries deserve more certainty that a permanent extension would give them. we don't want to see our tax dollars going to buy chinese steel and there's overcapacity in the chinese steel market and it gets dumped over here below the cost of production and i think it's time that most americans would tell you if we're going to use our tax dollars to do infrastructure projects, we'd like to see us buy american steel. so, mr. chairman, this is a very simple amendment, it just strikes the 2017, makes this permanent, brings it into line with all the other programs, mirrors the overwhelming bipartisan support it got in the senate and gives our steel producers and our workers some certainty about their future. i hope you would take this under serious consideration and i would be happy to yield to my good friend walter jones who is my co-sponsor of the amendment if he would like to add to that.
>> thank you very much and i would certainly welcome the gentleman from north carolina joining us and i apologize i should have equated these two together. walter and i rode up on the elevator and he told with great enthusiasm about his ideas that he felt like that were very much with in line with not only bipartisan ideas but the american products. >> mr. chairman, i'm going to be very brief because mr. doyle told it all and there's nothing else i can really add to it, but i do not understand why with all the threats to our industry in america, with all the dumping that comes out from china especially, this is an opportunity for this congress with a new president elect, no matter how you might feel about this president, he did make this statement, we are going to rebuild america and we're going to rebuild this country with american products and as mike said, the american worker has a right to know what his future
is. so i hope that this committee will give us a chance with this amendment to get it to the floor of the house and let all the members on the house floor make a statement for the american worker. so thank you for giving me just a few seconds to speak. thank you very much. >> mr. jones, thank you very much. i will take the first question. mr. jones, i'd like to personally thank you for your service to this great nation, to the men and women of the marine corps at camp lejeune, north carolina. day in and day out every time you're up here i talk with you about your commitment to the men and women who protect this great nation. i have no doubt that what you're trying to bring to us today is a buy american product and is not just done with responsibility, it's done with the conviction of the kind of men and women that represent this country and i want to thank you very much. gentlemen, i have equated myself with the package that you've got here. i appreciate your hard work.
mr. chairman shuster, i want to thank you for working with me and others. i thank every single member of the house of representatives has something that they needed to make sure that got prioritized. i think you probably had more requests than abilities, needs always outpace resources, but i want to thank you for your commitment to this body, republican, democrat, friend, fa foe, whatever it might be for doing your job and i commend you for that and i want you to make sure you tell your dad i said hi. chairman cole. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to begin by echoing your congratulations to all three of these chairmen for what they've managed to do here. in very short order. and accommodating some really important issues. obviously the state of oklahoma,
oklahoma city water settlement is really a model of how these things ought to work but we got that done late. took us five years, but that's pretty quick for indian water settlements, but for you gentlemen and the administration and our colleagues in the senate to work together to incorporate it here at no cost to the federal government, but it will settle some real issues in my state that require federal approval just because they've all signed off and, again, including the administration it still takes a congressional approval so that's a big deal for us and thank you for that. i also want to thank you, there's all sorts of provisions in here for some indian water issues, pachongas have been up here trying to get some things done and a number of other tribes, the definitional changes that allow tribes to be eligible to compete for projects or bid proposals for projects for historically impoverished communities is a huge change and big change in the right
direction. i want to thank all of you for working with us on that. finally i want to echo my friend from michigan's words about the flint settlement. i mean, i couldn't agree more, mr. chairman, you're exactly right, this was a failure at multiple levels, federal, state and local. our friend mr. kildee as you pointed out has been absolutely tireless in educating the congress about the consequences of this. it is something we all care about and i commend the speaker as well. i know who made a commitment on this and took all of you, though, to honor the commitment. so thank you for that. i think it's a really good piece of work given, you know, the challenges, jurisdictional and in terms of policy and particularly you, mr. shuster, for having managed to get a second water bill done when all of us had begun to despair that there would be one done, let alone two in two years in quite
a legislative achievement to add to your distinguished record. again, my good friend from utah thank you very much on these indian issues. you have worked tirelessly to solve some really tough issues for us and let us be in a position. so i think it's a good piece of work. i don't have any objections to anything in it. of course i probably have another list that i'd like to have in it, but this is really, really well done. so i look forward to hopefully giving you the kind of rule that you need to proceed with the excellent legislative efforts that all three of you have made on behalf of a lot of communities around the country. again, just it's extremely well done. so thank you very much. yield back. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i want to associate myself with your words of appreciation for the breadth that this bill took. thank you very much. gentle woman from new york. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you, gentlemen.
good work. i'm particularly happy with the work you've done on the great lakes, the restoration, it's terribly important. it's important to many of us with small harbors that you have a 10% of money for dredging which we hope means we won't have to beg on our hands and knees to get a little dredging money every year and harbor maintenance i think which is terribly important in the inventory you're getting ready to do on what it needs. and before i get any further with this i really want to say that i hope we do make an order, the buy american bill. i think it is critically important and i'd like to do that. we're not really sure why you have it for such a short duration, in this bill there may be some reason we ought to hear about, but i'd like to see it be made permanent and we can put that in order. also we are concerned a little bit about california, mostly because we're hearing from so many of our constituents and environmentalists that it's a problem but as long as i've been on this committee we have dealt
with california water. am i right? i think probably the best recommendation i can make is they should move where there is more water. i don't see any way that we're -- as much as we cannot produce water. we can't manufacture it. but that takes up an inordinate amount of time. i hope that doesn't sound unkind, because i appreciate they've got a problem there, but i surely do wish they could settle it in sacramento. i would be pretty happy about that. the coal ash rules i think were good. glad for what you've done for flint and it's very important that we won't have other cities with that lead problem anymore. any lead that is bothering a developing mind is too much lead. as to my friend dee fez joe, the ranking member of transportation says that he will vote against the legislation but we should vote how we want to which we
always do. he said the following language, quote, house republican leadership stripped key democrat priorities and air dropped in controversial republican priorities to appoint where the bill no longer represents the bipartisan traditions of the committee on transportation and infrastructure, end quote. and we know the legal conservation voters is against -- the national manufacturing association and claim letter of commerce support. with that i will yield. >> the gentleman from georgia. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have the great honor of serving with chairman shuster on the transportation committee and it's been a great -- it's been a great delight. i've thought about what mr. doyle said in terms of the absence of certainty have an impact on folks and of course that cripples this institution. we get this idea that there's only one train leaving et station as you said you didn't get everything you wanted in this bill, mr. chairman, but you think there's only one train leaving the station you end up fighting so much over that last
seat nobody gets that seat on the train. this chairman said he was going to bring back regular order to the committee and he has done exactly that and i can look absolutely everybody in the eye, mr. chairman, who didn't get everybody they wanted in this bill and said you've got a chairman who has worked hard for you last cycle, you have a chairman who has worked hard for you this cycle and the chairman will be back working hard for you next cycle, too. it is creating a cycle of success that we can benefit from not just on the transportation but all across this institution. i just want you to know how much i have appreciated what you have done not just for me as a member of the committee, but what you have done for this institution by sticking to what you said you were going to do and making it something that we can rely on so that there is certainty for us and for our constituents back home. thank you for that and congratulations. with that, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. gentleman from florida. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. gentlemen, i add my thanks for
the extraordinary work that you all have done. i tracked a lot of it with many of you over the course of time and particularly florida specific projects, port everglades and the central everglades planning project as well as the pick a union strand are areas that i'm delighted that are being addressed and i know that each of you have had your fill of hearing from us about it. on port everglades i came here advocating that we should be able to make the necessary preparations for enhanced shipping in that area and toward that end i am pleased that we've finally come to that position, that the army corps of engineers
can stop studying and get on with the business of doing what's necessary there. a colleague of mine from florida, gwen graham, is very opposed to one issue that my good friend from georgia and i might be continuously concerned about and that's the florida/georgia/alabama wars, and i'm not talking about football here. [ inaudible ] >> that war will probably be over for some years to come, but you will not have my good graces as long as they play florida, i will be pulling for florida, but the florida/georgia/alabama water wars, mr. baron and my colleagues i'm sure all of us are concerned about and i did hear that senator nelson and senator brooks of alabama are upset with the inclusion of this
language. and ms. slaughter has spoken, too, and i echo the sentiments about the controversy over the california provisions. that does raise some concerns, but perhaps mr. bishop you can help me if i address it to you. i may not have heard you correctly, and correct me, that you don't feel that this measure gets rid of or impacts in a negative way the endangered species act? >> no. >> then why do you think that certain of the senators are as upset as they are such that they are making pronouncements, i might add i don't care how long the other body stays here i just want us to get out of here, but they're making statements along
the lines that they would be opposing it for a protracted period of time. have you had conversations with them and the other body to allay some of their fears. >> yes and no and you said they're coming from senators and that should have answered your question right there. >> up to a point. as a matter of fact, there is a split between the two senators in california with reference to the measure. >> the key element, though, of this provision here it's not the complete package that we passed in the house, it's a portion of it, it's a step going forward, which is good, a good beginning to try to come to a solution. when you can get one senator and the majority leader agreeing to something i think it's time to take yes for an answer. >> i hear you. i am very much supportive of the measure brought by our colleague
and good friend mr. doyle and backed up and also brought by my good friend walter jones. and perhaps either of you can answer me why did we not go the route of the senate who passed the buy america provision without a sunset? what's the reason for the one-year sunset? chairman upton? >> you seem to know the answer. >> it just was the way that the members worked in trying to get it done before the end of the week. we had a lot of things on our plate, we had cures, thank you again for your support, just passed in the senate a little bit earlier, 94 to 5. >> right. >> we had an energy bill that we're working on, rob and i were working on that very close and i frankly like this way that we can individually vote on the
amendment. i think members may prefer that versus having it included in the bill. >> well, i sure -- >> i'd just like to see where am ebbs are. >> i sure hope it's made in order. many of you will remember that a former colleague of ours, jim trafficon, every minute he would make a one minute speech and talked about buy america, he kept that drum beat going and we've just come off of a presidential election where the talk has been substantial on us dealing with buy america. nevertheless, i hope the amendment is made in order. i certainly intend to vote for it and i thank you all for all of the work that you've done. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, judge. dr. burgess. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thanks to our chairman for being here today. chairman upton, congratulations on cures, i just got that on an e-mail, but what a great
accomplishment. certainly adds to what has been a very productive two years on the energy and commerce committee under your chair. we're all proud that that is on the way down to the president's desk. i am grateful for the bill because there is a lot of stuff in here that's important across the country. there's one portion that catches my mind, mr. bishop i guess it's title 4 which is other provisions that follows your -- your section, but it is out west and that deals with the gold king mines bill recovery section 5004. i went out to colorado and witnessed what -- the devastation that was brought about by the environmental protection agency when they lifted the roof of the gold king mine and allowed all that water to -- that water to discharge
into the cement creek and then the an amiss river. mr. tipton was kind enough to help me get up into the mountains to see what it looked like. that was a disaster caused by the environmental protection agency. clearly they were in there with a backhoe doing something they had no business doing and so i'm grateful that the funds are there to help offset the cost to the municipalities, the indian strikes and you spelled out who is eligible for combination and how the proof of concept needs to be forward, i'm grateful for the protection of the taxpayer dollar. my concern is that we are not offsetting those funds from the operational budget of the environmental protection agency because they were directly responsible. here is the broader point, yesterday in the energy and commerce two assistant administrators from the environmental protection agency talk being how fines and penalties are necessary because of an automotive manufacturer
who they thought had done something wrong and now this is necessary to keep anybody from doing anything wrong in the future. so fines and penalties are appropriate for a private automotive manufacturer why in the world wouldn't they be okay for a federal agency that clearly outstripped its bounds and really caused a great deal of problem for everyone not just in the colorado area but all the way downstream through, i think, four states were affected by this. and i know you don't have an answer for that, but it's just one of the frustrations that we deal with up here. we'll hold private industry to account, okay, well and good, with he should, but a federal agency messes up and, too bad, that's the cost of doing business with your federal government. i don't know if you have any observations on that issue, but -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> yes, sir. >> [ inaudible ].
certainly we will review and move forward and this 115th congress. you're right, they violated the law, why aren't they held accountable like an automobile or anybody else would be. >> thank you for that, mr. chairman. >> our committee is the one that did the investigation. >> yes, sir. >> and did the report on it as well and what you're saying is spot on. this is not the vehicle to do that, but you're spot on. there was -- they did it, they caused it, they knew what they did, they tried to cover it up. >> yes, they did try to cover it up. thank you. thank you for that acknowledgment. i will look forward to next congress to us perhaps holding them to higher account. thank you, mr. chairman, i will yield back. >> the gentleman from colorado, mr. polis. >> thank you. some of the discussion seems to be around the buy america provisions and the duration. i mean, i was wondering if the committee did any hearings or work on those and if it found
that the senate provision would drive up costs on some of the infrastructure or there was some down side in terms of either the quality or cost of the infrastructure. >> not really. not a lot of attention. the water bill when we passed it in the house i think it was under suspension, right? so no amendments and it sailed through with almost 400 votes. we tried to equal a former chairman of that committee with, what, 415 -- >> 418. >> 418. somebody knows. but it was -- didn't have a lot of attention so it was a relative new issue for us, the senate might have spent a little more time on this than we did, but at the end i think this is a pretty good process where we could offer that amendment and let everyone vote their conscious. if it passes send it to the senate where i assume that they would accept it, too. >> thank you. yield back. >> gentleman yields back. gentleman from alabama, mr. byrne. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> yes, sir. >> i should apologize to the gentleman from florida, i was inn tempered in my remarks
earlier about football but i got carried away in the spirit of the moment. i hope everyone will forgive me with that. i say that with a representative from washington and a representative from ohio state over there. i appreciate all three chairmen for the work you did on this. this is a hard bill. i remember when we voted on this last night, it was hard then, i go he is it will be hard every time. i know there are a lot of important things that affects everybody's districts and there are things in here very important to my district and i want to thank you for that. i do want to speak in favor of two of the amendments. we have already alluded to amendment number 2, the water wars between black/florida florida and georgia do not affect my part of plam, they affect the southeastern part of the state that i don't represent but i do want to speak in favor of that amendment. the next one is mr. doyle and mr. jones' amendment regarding buy america. let me just say one thing about that. china is producing more steel
than there is total worldwide demand. there is no market-based economy in the world where firms produce more steel than there is demand. there is something really funny going on there and it's because the state, the chinese government, is essentially backing up what they're doing to the detriment of everybody in the world and i think it would be a very strong statement by the federal government of the united states to say we're not going to buy your steel if you're dumping it and you're producing at that level. so i know that this is a controversial thing, but i think it's very important for both the american economy and the steel industry in the united states of america and i support that amendment. and i thank you, mr. chairman. >> i want to thank the gentleman. i also want to add that i believe i told the gentleman that his favorite -- one of his favorite senators, senator shelby from the state of alabama had called me and asked me to pay particular attention to this amendment which i spoke with you about and the water piece and i
do appreciate your consultation on that and your ideas and thank you for your comments today. thank you very much, gentleman yields back. the gentleman from the state of washington, mr. newhouse. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i want to thank all of you that are here to bring us testimony on the water bill two for two as far as i'm concerned this is the way it goes since i'm a freshman and i appreciate the model that you're setting forth. particularly, mr. bishop, i was interested in the comments you were making being also a representative from a western state, state of washington, where we've also experienced long periods of drought, insufficient snow pack, having very difficult time meeting our water needs for a growing population, as well as industry. so this is a particularly difficult issue and one i think that the water bill goes to good lengths to help us in the west, the arid west, i should say,
bring some solutions forward. from reading what i understand the bill and i just wanted a clarification here if i could, the wynn act will authorize the secretary, that's the secretary of interior, to participate in and provide financial assistance to develop new and expanded federally owned lead water storage projects. if certain criteria are met. and i think it additionally creates a new water storage account -- yes, mr. bishop -- that you mentioned which is good news for surface water projects which would receive this federal funding if the interior secretary recommends the project in the appropriate appropriations legislation is enacted for those specific projects. so my question is: are all states in the west would be eligible for these -- these new
funds i guess is the pertinent question. >> yeah, as i understand it, i want staff to correct me if i'm wrong, as i understand it this applies to every state or gives the possibility of it applying to every state, why he. >> so it definitely will go a long ways in my view of bringing some needed solution to unfortunately we have the term arid west too often used in describing the situation that we faced. so i, again, appreciate very much the work that has gone on in many areas of this bill, but particularly as it addresses some of our western state problems. with that, mr. chairman, i would yield back. >> mr. newhouse thank you very much. the gentleman yields back his time. does any other member of the committee have a question? i'm going to break if i can just for a second. we're joined by three distinguished young chairmen here and i'd like to, if i can, make a presentation at this time to the gentlewoman from north
carolina. the gentlewoman yesterday was given an opportunity to defend herself, she chose not to and again today. so, gentlemen, just so you know mrs. fox -- [ applause ] >> -- will be leaving the committee after many years of service not only to our conference but the entire congress and her honor and the way in which she has been very faithful i think has really shown well upon not only her state but also herself and i would like for each of you to know she will be joining you next year as a chairman. virginia, i want to present you with a gavel. >> oh, thank you. >> that you will be allowed to make your own rules now, virginia. you don't want people to talk more than three minutes which is what the democrats don't want to have, they want you not to allow
anybody to talk more than three minutes but you can go make your own rules. >> that's a heavy gravavel. >> yes, with he gave you a heavy one. virginia, i'd like to yield the time to defend yourself for yesterday. >> well, these gentlemen probably were hoping they would be allowed to leave. >> too bad. >> yesterday i tried to express myself on a spur of the moment because we had a few minutes but i want to say again it's been a real joy to be on the rules committee. as i said yesterday, i came here kicking and screaming, i didn't really want to be on rules, most people don't know about rules, i didn't know about it, but it has been one of the most educational experiences i have ever had. i am in the education business and i like learning so it's been wonderful. it's given me a chance to see
all of -- so many members that i would not have had a chance to interact with otherwise and that's sort of been my -- i didn't say that yesterday, but that's been my life. i've always had a chancelife. i've always had a chance to be sort of in the middle of things and work with people across party lines and across division lines. so it's been really, really great opportunity. and pete is a wonderful chairman. i wish we did the have time limits sometimes up here. but he is very gracious and we all have a lot to learn from him and his kindness and his graciousness to other people and his respect for other people. so this has been wonderful for me to have been here and learn so much from pete and from my colleagues. i wish i had the wit that some
of my colleagues had. i certainly i had the expansive knowledge that some of them had. so i have a great deal more respect for members by having served on this committee. and, again, members from all parts of our conference as well as other colleagues on the other side of the aisle. so i thank you, pete. and this is an absolutely gorgeous arrangement. you know, i love you guys. and this is lovely. thank you. i will take this and think of you every day. [ applause ]. >> the committee had time yesterday to engage in anything you want to say? if anybody wants to say anything, the gentleman woman is recognized. >> virginia, good luck. and congratulations. we'll miss you up here.
you have always been a great addition to the rules committee. and we're grateful for that, for your friendship. >> thank you. >> best of everything. >> he says i can come back. >> okay. >> and for the first stat of administrative policy. >> i thought he was going to be the first. i'm glad you explained that. >> best of everything va is va. >> dr. fox, i'm delighted that you are going to, as i said to you on the elevator, be in your lane in education. and i believe congress and the nation will benefit from your wisdom in that regard. it's been a great experience. you and i don't agree on much of anything. but have he very same time we have had extraordinary discussions at times when you
changed my mind regarding some positions and hopefully i changed yours regarding some positions. i look forward to working with you in the committee as you designate. it is without any question in my mind the most important thing that we can do in this country and that is provide for our children and the workforce portion of it and help as best we can to provide for jobs. i am a keen observer for not only our committee but in general. we take great pride in believing we have some of the best constituent services in florida. but i know your reputation and i have watched you work. and you work harder than almost all the members and your constituents. they appreciate you for it and i certainly do on behalf of them
and the rest of us. so good luck. >> i see before me my two chairmen. i'm excited of course. i'll be seeing just as much of dr. fox, the new chair of the educational workforce committee and chairman sessions. this might be the last time you are seated together there. i look forward to serving under both your chairmanships and committees. dr. fox, i look forward to working with you on higher education authorization. hopefully we'll be back before this committee with that in the next session. that would be wonderful if we can accomplish that. i look forward to working on that with you. >> may i make one comment? i talked a lot about my learning here. but i should have said i hope you'll be kind to me when i have a chance to come back as chair of the education and workforce committee. i think i better ask that while
i'm sitting on this side of the room. >> it's about time to be nice to us, virginia. >> but it is is a great honor to go to the educational workforce committee. and i think mr. poles and i are in a unique situation, having both of us is served on this committee and both serving on the education and workforce committee. it will continue to be a delight to work with him on that committee. i'm leaving only because -- >> because you want to come back? >> -- because i have a great opportunity, as judge hastings says, to work in my lane and hopefully use my skills there. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. sorry i couldn't be here yesterday. thanks for the work that has been done on this bill. but turning to virginia, i remember coming here four years ago and you go around and you
try to find your committees, you go talk to people. and i ended up in virginia's office. she's sitting behind her desk. i sat in front. and the classic teacher/student role she begins to tell me, well, if you're doing this the right way -- and have you ever considered rules. i said i'm looking for the judiciary. she said just think about it. you can learn so much. and she began to tick off her passion. i think the thing that is amazing, and the chairman said this about team and team player about her. but it's beyond even our side over here who admires and loves you. it is is about this institution. it's about the institution of this hill that means so much to so many of us. and the passion that you bring and the willingness to sit down with someone who is trying to learn. and i have to say i told my chief as we walked out of the
room, what do you think about rules? he said, no, just keep focused, keep focused. i was in expired by what you said. two years later i asked for that. it was because i saw the love you have for this place, the love for the people here. and with that, education and workforce cannot be in better hands. we'll miss you here. we'll treat you well when you come back. thank you for what you mean to me up here and from day one really of my career in congress. it means so much. i just want to say thank you. >> the gentleman from alabama, mr. byrne. >> well, i too will be serving on the education workforce committee, mrs. fox. i think she knows of my tremendous affection and admiration. i have watched her on this committee and that committee and
she's a leader. i am married to a strong woman. i am father to two strong women. i have learned the most important words. yes, ma'am. >> we were doing at the end the year this package and david obi came up and virginia decided she was going to take him on. she didn't like something. she said, mr. obi, you have used your words incorrectly. he he looked up like, who are you? she said, mr. obi, you educate people and train animals. you do not train people. so whatever is going to happen over there at the education committee, good luck. she knows you educate people and you train animals.
>> he had a reputation, not obi, but obey. >> you will be chairman owe obey. i think see the love from this committee and the love from your fellow chairman to be. good luck. thank you very much. gentlemen, thank you for taking an extra moment. seeing none, we now will move to close the hearing portion of s-612 and move to hr-2028. we're expecting the gentlewoman from new york, mrs. lowe and the gentleman from kentucky on appropriations, mr. rogers.
i did earlier rob graduated. ms. boothe do you see chairman rogers out there? i think he is too. mr. chairman, we have just finished a big roast actually of the gentlewoman from north carolina, mrs. fox. as you may know, nita, chairwoman fox will be moving to the chairwoman of the labor and workforce committee and education workforce committee. she was just presented with a brand-new gavel and some flowers. it's virginia fox day today