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tv   After Words Gretchen Carlson Be Fierce  CSPAN  October 22, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm EDT

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>> you could argue i did a book on aol. >> not to take away from him, but the idea was an important one. it wasn't around when they started operation, so he was the founder. next on booktv "after words" discussed sexual harassment in the workplace interviewed by
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sally quinn, "washington post" columnist and on the face founding editor. >> host: it's too bad we don't have anything to talk about today. [laughter] >> that is the understatement of the century. >> why don't we start off by talking about harvey weinstein because that is what everyone is talking about right now. every day there is a new atrocity that occurs. three more people came forward with the idea and this has been going on for years and years. there were eight settlements against him, and obviously everyone in the company knew about it. and i have to say, i wondered about his wife who i gather announced last night announced she was leaving him finally, how she could possibly not have heard about this.
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how do you think this happened? how was disallowed to go on and on and have nobody speak out until now >> guest: as a society i and a culture, we protect actors. that is a 20 million-dollar question of why do we do that. is it because we are protecting our own job, is it because we are protecting a person in power? those are the top reasons but now that the floodgates have been opened i give so much credit to the women who were able to tell their stories. and by the way there's probably more settlements that have been reported. >> host: but that doesn't mean there were only eight people but he harassed or assaulted or
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raped. what is the statute of limitation faqs >> rape is a crime, so that is a longer statute of limitation. sexual harassment you don't have a lot of time to file a claim. it's different in every state whether it is a federal violation or state violation. so that is another thing that we need to look into to help more women come forward. especially with an issue like sexual harassment or you don't switch on a light and say i think i will come forward. we have less than two years. >> host: at you said power and jobs. that doesn't excuse the man in the company and the people who were on the board, the lawyers, all the people who have to be involved in those settlements.
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why did they not say anything? i want their names on the front pages of the times. >> guest: we hav have to go up after the newspaper that ever existed because it isn't just that company. they are covering up hundreds or maybe thousands of companies around the world. so, the big question that you ask is why do we protect the formats are. it's not always the most powerful. i will give you an example. somebody comes into a job and they are warned be careful, he's been here for 30 years and he has a renewed sense of humor. sure enough the woman finds out who she is and who do they protect, joe.
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he's not the ceo of the company. it is at every level i feel bullied by the harvey weinstein story. >> guest: not just you. we all do. i was horrified that i was also thrilled that this came out that he was outfit and he' he is goig into therapy and thrilled his wife was leaving him. this is a huge step forward for all of us who have had these experiences, and we all have. >> guest: it is a step forward for the enablers and people mentioned who will also be called out.
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enablers are a huge part of the problem and the solution. and actually, sexual harassment companies focus more on enablers than almost anything else. how do we get the courage to not be the enabler and to also come forward. reading one story after another you think this can't be happening. because of the experience at fox news and the sexual harassment suit against roger ailes, i
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wanted to read in your complaint he has retaliated against carlsen and refused the advances and be an pervasive sexual harassment. they retaliated in various ways as described below to terminating the employment on june 232016 among other things marginalizing and shouting after making it clear these problems would not have existed and could be solved if she had a sexual relationship with him. to discuss the treatment which she was being subjected, i think you and i should have had a sexual relationship a long time ago and then you would be good and better and sometimes
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problems are good and easier that way. the demands nine months later and did her career at fox news. >> guest: first of all, he was so repulsive the idea that someone like roger ailes could think that he could even get away with that he could be attractive enough to be being taken up. one of the things you ca can't k about in this lawsuit and you reach a $20 million settlement that was not enough but why can't you talk about it is that not part of the problem in order
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to reach a settlement you agreed not to talk about it. >> with regards to the resolution of giving that money away to help other women i just want to be clear about that and all the proceeds from my book. settlements, yes. this is the way the culture has decided to resolve these kinds f cases. over 90%. that means the woman pretty much never works in her chosen career ever again, and can never talk about it. how else do we solve sexual harassment we put in arbitration clauses in contracts which make it a secret proceeding so again nobody ever finds out about it and you can never talk about it, ever. nobody ever knows what happens
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to you and you are also terminated from the company and in many cases it would still work in the same position which he was surpassing you. so this is the way the society has decided to resolve sexual harassment cases so that we can fool everyone else out there that we've come so far in 2017. the reason we are not hearing about the cases is because the women are silent through the forced arbitration, so. suppose you had said i want to settle but i don't want this silence walls. to be able to talk about this issue openly and share other
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people's stories and talk about ways in which we should change the law and have this conversation right now that is rare. what do we do in order to change this from happening to someone else for the sexual harassment charge and then you can reach a settlement with the settlement doesn't include silencing you how do we go about changing that? >> we have to take the forced arbitration clause out of the contract. sexual harassment is apolitical. before somebody harasses you you don't ask, and other daughters, granddaughters and i've been meeting with many of them privately to try to get them on
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board to take the secrecy out of it. then you can file a public complaint and have a jury trial. it is besides the secrecy you can't call the same amount of witnesses, the depositions are different, there is no appeal and the people here in the cases are retired lawyers and judges who may not be as adept at understanding sexual harassment and this particular generation.
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if i can just get a bipartisan bill to pass to take the secrecy out of this but as a shock to the companies. >> guest: explained to me why this isn't a no-brainer when you talk to members of congress and say i want this arbitration bill changed why would anyone say no? the number one big reason is because democrats are in favor of this and republicans support big business. so basically did they say we are supporting big business, how do they phrase it? >> guest: they are taking the meetings with me and they are listening and thinking long and
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hard to carry on the one hand rationally they look at this and they realized they should be onboard. let's talk about silence they will go in to talk to the republican senators or congressmen and they will lose a lot of money.
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it was cheaper so you don't have to hire a whole bunch of lawyers and go through a process in the trial. this is a way to hold small business disputes by putting them in arbitration. when you start a new job you are just happy to get a paycheck you are not thinking about the arbitration clause or that you are going to get into any kind of dispute. i know i never thought that.
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you realize you do not have an option and that is what i'm explaining to the members of congress. so i am not going to think about it. >> host: this was not your first experience. tell me your experience when you were 22, you have experiences that were disgusting. >> guest: this is not my first day at the rodeo. it's when i was ms. america actually and may be th maybe thg of that is when you accomplish something like that certainly might resume of being a stanford graduate. i showed thick-skinne thick skie end of the year i realized this
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was a career i wanted to try. one executive was nice to me and we went out to dinner and i thought this is going to be a great beginning for me. and when we got into the backseat of the car service suddenly he was on top of me with his time down my throat and i remember being panicked thinking how the hell am i going to get out of this and i screamed for the driver to stop. i opened the door and got out not knowing where i was and i just lost it and with so many women have gone through, what did i do, wasn't he really trying to help me, all of that just goes away. i never spoke to him ever again.
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a couple weeks later i was in los angeles meeting with a high-powered publicist. i was in a car again with him and he took my head with his hand and forced my head so hard into his crotch i couldn't breathe. [inaudible] here is the really fascinating part of it i never spoke openly about the stories until recently. so, more importantly it was a friend when i was telling her the stories she said to me you
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realize those are both assaults and i said what are you talking about. she said that is an assault. and i have never defined it that way before. and i think it speaks volumes about how we normalize this evening in culture that we think we can overcome it so we just put it aside and we don't acknowledge it for what it is. it is actually not natasha who told me that. she was doing a story about the
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birth of the president's latest child. when she went to change her clothes he took her against her will and she actually took herself off of that and told people which is huge. women should tell people what happened because we live in a she said she's the culture. then she came forward with her story is because she was listening to one of the debates
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where he said he never kissed anyone against their will. she said i don't want to be silent anymore. >> host: so she had been friends with melania and went to her in the street and she said we haven't seen you in a long time, where have you been and after she came out with the story of melania denied it saying they never ran into each other, it didn't happen. what do you say about the lives that are enabling their husband to do these kind of things? i don't know about harvey weinstein's wife but i can't imagine she had some idea of this after ten years of managed. >> guest: i hope that they can also find a way to stand up and be fierce and give themselves
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respect. >> guest: you just mentioned a janthe jane fonda. >> guest: she said she was raped earlier in her career. she was abused and never told those stories before. this is the culture that we live where these stories are put down and women are made to feel ashamed if something happened to them when in essence, they were shamed. we have to turn this issue totally in the opposite direction. >> host: gwen paltrow came forward and so did angelina jolie. the issue fascinates me.
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i have had a number of experiences like this, one when i was 19. we got in a cab and he tried to rape me in the back of the cab and i was so ashamed i didn't tell anybody for a couple of years. i started telling people and when he came up to be nominated secretary defends, i had two fbi agents come to the house and say we heard about your experience and we are checking on the resume.
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the only republican voted against him and then poor anita hill didn't have my background and she talked to the fbi and told her story and she ended up on capitol hill in her life was ruined. that's all you know about her nevermind that she is a distinguished lawyer. the producer hired me on the movie over about the dolphin is that you will have to sleep with me if you want to part and i said i will have to ask my father and i didn't get a call back. i have the producer of 60
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minutes call me and took me to my room one night and threw me against the betting. i never told the john tower story because i was ashamed. i shouldn't have agreed to go to dinner when he dragged me across the street, i should have managed to keep them out of the cab. it was my fault. what was i thinking when he was going to help me be a big star
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and i started out on television and had no experience but i should have known better. it was my fault that i led him on. i want people to think that i'm attractive and. i don't think that women are ever asking to be assaulted. you could be wearing a short skirt and shouldn't feel any shame but it is a potent force.
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i've even seen some people on twitter, gwyneth paltrow for examples of when she didn't come out right away so we should discount what she says now. but know this is how it starts. we should never shame a woman who comes forward at all. we should realize as they start to come forward to come forward when it is happening to them, that is how it works. it is a chain of inspiration, one at a time. it's not one you just suddenly wake up one day and say i'm going to do this monumental
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thing. it is a process of time, not a light switch and that is one of the greatest myths i've seen on social media, why did you wait so long. you don't realize where women are in a society. we are still labeled and the best thing is we want to bring these cases forward. i never met any of the women that i have spoken to. >> host: 40 years ago, over 50
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years ago, the story when i did tina brown story at the world summit started telling the story and i thought i was going to lose it. i'd never told this story befo before. i can only imagine i waited so long to tell that story. you didn't want to talk about it, you didn't want to bring that sort of attention on your self you think people think you are a troublemaker but i agree with you that the idea of people talking about it when it happens
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now for feminist point of view and i agree you say if it happened it happened and this should be done. however there is another side of the story and it happens occasionally on college campuses and that is what happens if somebody is falsely accused. i happen to know this because a close friend of mine their son was at duke university that got thrown out for harassing a woman of his life was ruined he was thrown out of college and all that kind of thing. they say you ought to keep a pack of permission slips how do
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you protect your sons and you talk yourtalk a lot about your n her children able to tell them. and how far you can go and what you can do. it is a whole different situation. yes there are also accusations of that doesn't make me feel good with any parent about to send their children out and it's one of the reasons i'm doing the college campus tour because they have to form and shape their opinions in the way they look at the world.
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one expert told me if you start trying to change in the 40s and 50s, forget that it is too late. so they are building their perceptions while they are growing up. i have worked more for my son then than i have for my daughter because when he gets into the workforce and 12 years or so i want hiwanted to look at his fee colleagues and respect them the same way that he respects me. my kids were the most important decision in what i decide to do. when i jumped off the cliff, the only thing i was thinking about this my kids and is the biggest decision of my life to do what i did and i would not have done it if i thought i would have harmed
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by children. in the end how could i know how any day would be after that but i've now seen my children get that gift of courage themselves, specifically my daughter who was looking for courage and aspects of her life and when she went back to school she said a lot of people were asking what happened over the summer and i said i was so proud to be able to say that you are my mom. >> host: what was the tipping point for you because obviously you put up with it and put up with it and the most insidious part, here you were getting higher ratings than anybody else
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and giving all these incredible interviews and a hard worker at the top of your game they started lowering your salary and moving you into a different time slot and taking the interviews away from you. was there a moment you said i am mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore? >> first, thank you for acknowledging all of that. it's a very lonely experience, so thank you for giving me that credit. when i finally realized what i d for more than 25 years, when theirealized that would come ton end for me i realized i had to do if not for myself that any by women that were going to come after me and i wanted the next
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generation to not have to face the same things that i had. that's what it was, seeing what i worked harthati worked hard fo go away. >> host: was it gradual? i know when i make decisions i go a period of time and think i can take thican't take this any, whatever it is. >> guest: i can't talk specifically about all of my enos and did what i went through over the years, but in general terms we are so used to working extra hard week you likely can n change the dynamic of the work hard and you hope they will see you for who you are.
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i think a stronger women are so used to banging our head against a brick wall to get ahead if we persevere against all odds that we keep fighting instead of saying something. >> host: it must have been humiliating for you. what about your colleagues at fox? data and people say i wonder why she had to show with the highest ratings on television, i don't get it. >> guest: you find out boots were friends are. i can't talk about the people at
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fox but -- >> host: i know you can talk cak about it just in terms of in general how people behaved when they saw what was happening to you. >> guest: i heard from people i haven't heard of him 30 years i never expected to hear from. >> guest: you mean supporters. >> guest: yes, some of my neighbors reached out to me and some people came up after time has passed and sent we didn't want to trouble you were bother you, we didn't know what to say. sometimes that happens when people die people sign a sympathy card with just their name. my father said you should always write a memory because that is what people want to hear
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[inaudible] but when talking about the phenomena is the same, people don't know what to say so they say nothing. >> host: you do go through the stages of grief. >> guest: and ptsd. i've been in full circle with that man a chance my head into his crotch, 25 years later i saw him walking down the hallways of my place of employment and i panicked. i ran up and slammed my office door and i started sweating and shaking. he wasn't going to come into my office, but this is what happens to you. you don't forget that moment of panic and being out of control and somebody violating you.
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i mustered up the courage and a couple of moments to crack my door open a little bit and look in the hallway to see if he was there and ran as fast as i could to the elevator. >> host: dude you think that he even remembered it? >> guest: probably not if he was doing it all the time. it is normalizing it within culture which brings us back to enablers and why it is so important for people and companies to say that is not acceptable what you just did. imagine if billy bush had said that in the donald trump campaign. i'm not going to stand for this, i don't talk that way to women. if somebody would just do that in a corporation -- post he was the younger guy trying to get ahead and donald trump --
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>> guest: i think now it will start happening especially with our younger people. melanie mills want to see that their hard work pays off in a good way. they like to see and th resultsd i believe that our younger people especially want to get rid of this indignity and i think with more and more women coming forward it is empowering especially to the young women just coming into the workforce seeing what happens when others are speaking out and have a voice. >> host: when you look at politicians and see first start with jack kennedy. my husband was a close friend of jack kennedy, they would have dinner or two or three nights a week at the white house.
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he swears he never heard any of the rumors because the four of them were close friends so it wasn't something that came up. he didn't know about it and when he started reading all these stories, she was really shocked and disappointed in th and thene story came out about the woman he had an affair with and he forced her to have oral sex in the pool with several staffers and get here is this person that is revered all over the world by everyone. he was an extraordinary man there is no question about it, but he was a predator of the worst kind.
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he was bill clinton and the women that are the first to stand up and say if she says it happened it happened and suddenly all the women were liars and it didn't happen. then you have donald trump who is so blatantly out there and while he's married talking about it and coming on t to women like this magazine reporter. he was elected president despite that.
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well, it's not. it promulgates for it is and locker room talk. i don't know any man that talks that way. i just don't or at least i don't think i do. people do not seem to care about that so what do you do about changing the culture in the sense that people will look at donald trump and say that isn't acceptable for anybody but particularly the president of the united states because his that's what the mothers of the supporters are saying to their little boys, this is the president and he can do whatever he wants to do, so so can you. >> guest: it is a terrible
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example for our children. the way that i handled personally, i showed my children the tape because i thought it was a teachable moment for them and i know millions of other parents across the country were grappling over what the heck to do about that. there was a "new york times" op-ed right after the election that said i don't give a damn about any policy you are trying to pass or what part you belong to. to me human decency surpasses all of that and the tape showed me what human decency is not and that is what i shared with my children. >> host: when they saw it did they understand what he was talking about? >> guest: yes.
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did i want to show it to them know what i felt that it was imperative that i do. whether or not people think tax policy or immigration policy or all that is more important than human decency, that's why we live in a free country and they can vote for whomever they want to. i worry those comments have set us back dramatically, but aside from that i am optimistic about where we are headed because of all of the stories coming out. >> host: i wonder what is happening now with harvey weinstein and if it will make other women and men look at this and say this is enough, we can't do this anymore.
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>> guest: i see it and i think that a huge part of the efficient -- >> host: i was about to get to that because i want to know about the men who defend. who are out there fighting with you? i read that george clooney said something. >> guest: they range from journalists to those that have made this their mission to go to companies and teach men to be more credible in the women and treat them with more respect. there are tons of men out there doing good work for women and this is why it is so crucial. the responsibility shouldn't only be on the shoulders of women. it isn't only our responsibility to make the workplace safer for us. it is more of a men's issue than it is a women's issue, so we need an entity on our side to help make the change and as long
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as we still have 90% of the fortune 500 companies run by men, we especially need them to be on our side in the way in which they pay us and promote us and decide whether or not we get a seat in the board room and the way they mathat way they may ort sexually harass us. men's voices are critical to making change and that's why even though it's only been a couple of days, to see men come out and say what they've been saying we must support women and stop enabling this, that is huge. it's like a cascading effect. i believe that we are on the precipice of major change with this issue. >> host: i think that harvey weinstein may have been the tipping point. so egregious and going on for so long and kept quiet for so long
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and then suddenly it just defies the imagination that this could have been happening in this day in age and people were accepting this and enabling this. but one of the things just sort of create an atmosphere -- when hillary clinton talked about donald trump kind of hovering around her she said i wondered if i should just tell him get away from the creep, because he was a creep. only a creep would say what he said on that access hollywood tape. and it's kind of like smoking. at one point it was cool and now you look at somebody and think that poor guy or woman they are
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going to get cancer and just our whole attitude towards it has changed that you would look at a man that would shove a woman's face in his crotch is such a creep and even if they didn't realize that it was wrong or they didn't care or they entitled or whatever they would be so terrified of being called a creep. i kept in my imagination last night when i was reading your book and getting really angry i thought every newspaper should have the creep of the week. [laughter] >> guest: i love that idea but also the smoking and now that she is a really good one. can i use that? [laughter] that is a great analogy.
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i see that in my kids. they see kids smoking now and it's just outrageous. i'm going to vote in the next few years, ten years, 20 years that is the way in which we will be looking at this. >> host: it was a very powerful guy in washington, still around, and well known for putting his hand on women's fires under the dinner table and no one ever said anything. we all used to talk about it. he never did anything more than that and it was creepy and embarrassing that it was in the middle of a black tie dinner with candles and everything else you just sort of don't know whether to say cut it out.
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it would have been so shocking and so it was kind of a joke. but i can't look at this guy and not think about that. >> guest: look at somebody like taylor swift could do you think she wanted to take time off of her tour to testify probably not but i am so glad she did because she is sending a message especially to young women that she isn't going to take that crap. she is a person standing up saying get your hand off me how dare you grope me. that's what she said and what played into this narrative of how we get to this point.
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then there's more people in silicon valley and then disturbing case, taylor swift, now you have harvey weinstein. here's the question, in terms of getting this to stop, there are two issues. one is they will be too scared to be called out and people will think that they are creeps, but the other thing is how do you get them to become decent human beings ever realize that this is not decent behavior? and by the way some are evangelical christians and religious people who tolerated the most.
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>> host: this is not an unusual story and we have seen the sexual harassment case. people won't commit crimes because they are afraid they will get caught so they may not do it because they are afraid they will get caught an and they are embarrassed. how do you get them to realize that this is wrong? >> guest: that goes back to the original point of how we praise them. >> guest: is slated for the family dynamic is. i even found myself in the last 15 months evaluating how i am
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printing and what is my dynamic with my husband because that is what they are seeing on a daily basis but also the schools come up i did a study cow that shows 5-year-old little girl's when they heard something say that could be a man or a woman and by the time they are six or seven they were not so sure if it could be a woman or not. what happens between a child's life undignified for six what we do with subtle cues to make them feel more. there is a lot in the book that says you should be president of the united states and my son says i love more than anything, and he's now 35. i was married to the editor of the post, a very strong man and he said to me you should be
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president. [laughter] to finish off the story to run for political office, this whole story unfolded and it's not necessarily in the cards right now but never say never. are we going to be president or who is going to be the vp? [laughter] you had a statistic that blew me away in the workplace women are raped and assaulted every year. >> guest: 70% of people don't
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come forward so this is an epidemic. how much is it happening in our culture? y. father once said to me when i first started dating never humiliate a man. that's stuck with me all my life, and i think he said that is the worst thing you can do to a man and i thought when i was reading your book and getting back to this, the only way to stop it is to humiliate them because they cannot stand to be humiliated. you are doing this incredible movement and you are testifying and speaking that's what do you think you will do, you talked
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about so many times when this happens, the women never end up back at the job of their choice or the field of their choice. >> guest: you saw the camera crew with me today and i can't announce that it is, iconic hollywood producer has asked me to work on a wonderful project with him for this spring. i'm a great organizer of time, but i do plan to go back into television. i worked my whole life and i can't imagine not working. i have a lot to offer. will it be a day-to-day show, i have no idea. i have had so many inquiries, but i'm so glad i've taken the last 15 months to gain a perspective about who i am and what i did and how that has all unfolded, how my children fit into the picture because had i
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just decided to jump back into television i wouldn't be doing all of this good work right now and i am doing this because of the thousands of women i heard from. they never had a voice like you and told their story but they told mthat theytold me and i kno something so that became my mission over the last 15 months. life works in mysterious ways. i never expected to be the face of this issue but the one constant in my life is when there is a challenge in front of me, i go for it and that is what i'm doing right now. i'm being fierce. this has been so pleasurable. i've really enjoyed it. thank you a look now at upcoming
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book fairs and festivals happening around the country.
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we will talk directly with authors during our life program. facebook.com/live tv. >> hello and welcome to today's event. my name is allie and i will be your host for the evening. thank you for coming out and supporting us. tonight we are excited to have doug present his newest work of literary military history, the odyssey of echo read you may recognize him as the new york times best-selling author of in harm's way and horse soldiers. he is also appeared on cnn, the history channel, npr and ll

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