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tv   FBI Director James Comey Testimony on Fiscal Year 2017 Budget  CSPAN  February 26, 2016 10:35pm-12:16am EST

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also get your reaction through your phone calls and tweets. we will have live coverage on c-span, c-span radio, and >> the fbi director, james comey, discussed the fbi's federal budge skt and the legal efforts to make apple unlock an iphone used by the san bernardino shooters. they talked about the cost of a new head quarters for the fbi as well. this is an hour and a half.
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>> the science appropriation comes to order. we welcome james comey to present the fiscal 2017 budget proposal for it fbi. the fbi director is at the forefront of the news today. the fbi is responsible for leading america's domestic anti-terrorism, counter intelligence and national security efforts and the director to combat gangs, financial fraud, human trafficking and public corruption. prior to 9/11, the fbi focused on investigating crimes. however today the fbi is charged with anticipating and preventing attacks from terrorist and other malfath -- malefactors .
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we provide you and the men and who serve and protect us with the support you need to meet the increasing demands placed on your fine people and resources. the committee faces pressure to trim budgets in an environment where essentially we are facing a flat budget from year to year. and increasing pressure on our mandatory social safety net programs that have got to be brought under control if we ever balance the federal budget. the committee will do everything we can to help you in that difficult environment. today we will probe your request seeking assurance and investments in the fbi. we will improve your capabilities, strengthen national security, and measurebly reduce crime. we have the highest esteem for the fbiment -- fbi.
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we must be convinced the hardearned tax dollars are going to be use carefully to advance our highest national priorities. i would like to recognize mr. honda our ranking member. >> i appreciate the continued work entering the third hearing today. i am looking forward to pursuing our mutual interest together with our respected colleagues in crafting a strong bipartisan appropriation bill. thank you and welcome director comey. it is a pleasure to have you join us and hear your testimony and take our questions. i would like to say i have a great respect for your statement that partisan politics should play no role in your department. i would like to thank you and
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the dedicated men and women at the fbi who work tirelessly to protect had american people against threats primary here at home in the united states but also abroad. i think we agree the work of the fbi is important to the security of our nation. but i also strongly believe thereat safeguarding the civil liberties of all americans is equally as important, if not more so. the tradition is not tested during times of tranquility. it is during times of tension, turmoil, tragedy, trauma and terrorism that it is tested. we must make sure it survives these test. with that being said, i am eager to learn about the progress made in combating sexual assault, human trafficking and keeps guns out of the wrong hands along with other activities. thank you very much and i look forward to hearing your
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testimony. >> i recognize the chairman of the full committee the gentlemen from kentucky, mr. rogers >> mr. director, welcome to the congress. thank you for the work you are doing and thank you for your dedication to public service. every day the fbi is on the razor's edge in protecting the homeland from extremism, guarding against cyber threats, and espionage and putting dangerous criminals behind bars. the world is changing quickly as new threats emerge. ones we didn't dream of five years ago. the track attack in san bernardino shows those who want to warm us are recruiting new tools and we routinely see the
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fbi rising to the challenge and i have no doubt they will do so in the future. your work is essential to the security of the nation economy. so this committee thank you and your co-workers. we are forced here every year to make difficult decisions to stay within the confines of our budget parameters. your request of $8.4 billion is essentially flat with many of the offsets will effectively reduce the operational capabilities of the fbi. $74 million in additional funds we gave to you in fiscal '16. $57 for personal and $74 million for operations and $150 in fees
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for it and criminal database improvements. we should allocate scarce resources but we need to hear you feel this is where we should cut back. it is important to ensure every penny is spent as efficiently and effectively as can be. these partners thrive with the support and leadership the fbi provides. one of my hyighest interest is effort to combat drug trafficking around the world. my corner of kentucky was among the first to feel the pain of opioid addiction in the 1990's and more recently the surge in
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hero heroin. with the success of combating production in south and central america and newer initiatives chasing dragon i am confidant you will yield results but the gas has to be kept on the -- foot has to be kept on the gas puddle hard. isis and other extremist groups are spreading their documents through the internet and social media. we have to be diligent to stay ahead of the curve and i look forward to hearing your plan to stop the radicalization of american citizens. and more specifically how we can be sure that the internet, this new international mode of
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conversation, that also allows evil doers to organize their efforts, how can we tackle that part of the problem. look forward to hearing from you. thank you for coming. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it is my privilege to recognize the ranking member the gentlelady from new york. >> it is a pleasure to have you with us. you have served this country through multiple presidents and i welcome you and thank you for your service. the social media has revolutionized our way of life becoming the choice for terrorist to spread propaganda and recruit and radicalize followers. as we practically witnesses in san bernardino and paris, we are -- okay.
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we are reaching new heights of terrorist attacks including the threat of home-grown extremist and lone wolf terrorist. i look forward to hearing how increased funding to enhance the technical capabilities of the fbi's investigative personal, increase the number of cyber investigations and increased analysis would help meet the need. i support the administration's requested increase for the national criminal background check system. black friday 2015 broke record for gun sales with 185, 345 background checks processed in a 24-hour period. slightly more than two background checks every second. it is clear the fbi will need
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additional investments to keep up with the record-breaking sales. last month the president rolled out executive action to prevent mass shootings and loss of american lives. many nra-backed republicans in congress made it clear they will not support measures to implement the president's plan including increased funding to keep up with the increase in background checks. i feel this is misguided and indicative, i hope not, of what is to come during the appropriation process. the men and women of the fbi put their lives on the line every day so we may live safely. they deserve to be commended. we thank you for your service, mr. comey, and i look forward to hearing your testimony. >> director comey, thank you for
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your service and we recognize you for your opening statement. without objection your written statement will be entered into the record. we would ask if you could to keep your remarks to five minutes. >> chairman rogers, mr. honda, thank you for having me. thank you for your good words about the people of the fbi. they are the magic of the organization i am lucky to lead. moments before i got in the car to come here i welcomed 170 employees coming together to make sure we are knitting them to a common culture including our ethnics and integrity. i said i hope you didn't sign up to get rich. i don't believe the fbi is something you do. it is something you are. it is an orientation toward life and surface. thank you for your support of our folks. it makes a big difference. i want to say a few words about
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stewardship. i am proud of the way the fbi has acted as a good steward of the taxpayer's money during my two years as director. we try to be conservative but my first two year on this job in what we asked for and i promised if i needed more dough i would come tell you and i am here to tell you about ways i think we need more resources. we trying to go further. we made it one of our strategic objectives in the fbi to reinforce the culture of stewardship and main tan an approach like this. when people drive a car that is an fbi vehicle i don't want them to think of it as somebody else's car bought the taxpayer's of the united states' car so they must care for it like they borrowed it from someone they care about and we want that attitude about our buildings and pins and all resources because it is borrowed from people who work hard to pay their taxes.
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we are trying to drive that attitude into the organization. i want to say a few words about what i am here to ask for more support. we need a new headquarters if our people are going to be safe and effective. we need a modern, safe and efficient headquarters. there is a big sum in the budget asked to support skthat. cyber remains a top priority of the fbi. we are asking for $85 million and that is going mostly to equipment and training. we have to have equipment that is at least as good as the bad guys so we can move information, analyze, and respond to the threat as fast as it comes at us which is at the speed of light. we asked for $38 million to deal
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with there problem we call going dark which is broader than the problem of locked devices or encrypted communication. it encompasses a lost of challenges. we need to invest in the technology in particular so we are able to execute lawful court orders in a good way. as mentioned, we are asking for additional support for our responsibilities to check the backgrounds of americans who want to percher purchase firearms. the increase is putting a strain on our workers. we need to get them help with additional personal and asked for $35 million.
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>> we have to use use this surveillance and follow people to make sure they don't harm innocent people. we asked for more money to make sure we can follow american people and keep them safe. i will close by saying thank you again for the support to this organization. we know we can count on the resources even in tough times that are necessary to keep the country safe. we are grateful. >> thank you. >> speaking on behalf of my colleagues with the admiration we have for the fbi. i appreciate your recollection
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we have to all be good stewards of the hard earned tax dollars. i like the approach you laid out asking employees to think of every asset, resource, and every that you work with at the fbi as borrowed from someone who they care deeply about. that is a great way to think about it. this subcommittee in the past year and fiscal year '16 bill worked hard to protect the supply chain. my predecessor frank wolf identified this early on. i think he was one of the first out of the gate to recognize the threat posed to this country by cyber espionage and cyber threat particularly from china. and the supply chain is one particular source of certain and vulnerability. so i wrote into the '16 bill to
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to give an enhanced role in reviewing the chain for computer equipment. the commerce justice science subcommitt subcommittee. can you talk about the threat faced? >> thank you for your support on that effort. the fbi has taken your urging and executed on it. we have talked to every federal agency have a primmer on the best practices to think about supply chain. you can spend all of the time in the world making sure foreign
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states are not penetrating the top corporation but if they get in below they will reach as much havoc. we tried to train the rest of the federal procurement world on thinking about that. we have the hybrid threat center that i just talked to the house intelligence committee this morning about it where we brought together a lot of elements of the intelligence community and other parts of the u.s. government to sit together and think about the threats posed today the united states by corporations who are allowing themselves to be co-opted and act as agents of foreign powers and the work of foreign powers trying to penetrate that supply chain and work their way up. it is an enormous undertaking. we have not licked it but thanks to your support we have a good down payment. >> the approach not to overwhelm the good men and women was ask there fbi to come up with a seal of approval, best practices,
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from the fbi. i know of the threat posed by a lot of countries but china is the biggest threat posed by the chinese and using that are they adopting or seem to be there.
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>> it is probably too early to say what progress people are making at pushing the best practices in the procurement but everyone understand the threat which is one of the most important parts of the threat to open eyes of what nation states could do to us. >> could you tell us this is an open setting? can you tell us without getting too specific. >> i don't want particular countries and corporations to know what i know. but there is no doubt there is a concerted effort by hostile states to use traditional
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espionage and issues and as i said it is important that our colleagues have seen enough of the darkness to know they should ask good and hard questions. that happens what the process should be about. >> does this approach look like it will be successful? >> it does. >> very good, sir. thank you very much. >> the report included language on private lab and uploaded combined dna in the system called code-us. the state has said this is time cons consuming.
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it is important to get the information in a timely fashion especially in light of need to bring sexual offenders and other violent criminals to justice as soon as possible. we ask you examine ways to expedite the process. how are you moving forward? >> that is an important topic. we have talked about it during the last two years. we have wrestled with them acquiring a hundred percent lab on the code standard in dna. we have come to the place where we feel we cannot allow anything less than a hundred percent because if we damage the gold standard of the dna database by letting subquality work be deposited into it we will be sorry. we looked at that in a place and we are unable to weaken the requirements for a public lab.
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we might focus on ways that might equip the state to catch offenders quickly while the validation process is going on. private labs are making inquiry of the state's holding. ...
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i think the way it works is that states have to validate 100% of the work of a private lab before it can be part and that is a time-consuming process and we think it's necessary to maintain purity of the gold standard but what we have said is we have no problem if you want to use the private resulting conjunction with the state's depository data, to use that portion of the data that the state pulled as i understand it and we think that is a large part of the problem because most offenders, the offense is going to be within a particular state so that his will be generated from intrastate data. >> not to be argumentative but you say the state can achieve 100% validation according to
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your goal and standards and require each state to have these private entities to achieve that at the state level and then it goes on to, it goes into the fbi and your system the quota system. >> i think that's right. we have told the country that will not allow a state lab to put their information directly into coders beard we require that somebody stand up to them and say we have checked all of the south 100% so it's good enough to go in. >> help me understand to validate 100%. >> i don't know the answer that. i think we were lying the states to do if i i think there are some moderate function where we at the national level check of the states are doing that we can get you have that answer for sure period and local law enforcement and district attorney's office achieve that
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validation requirement that you require? >> can local lads do it? >> local labs and the das office or can law enforcement offices be trained to do that aside from private entities? >> i don't know the answer to that. i will find out the answer and get back to you on it. >> we just did an analysis of alameda county and we have a hit in florida so i think the value of this kind of system is that bad actors can run around different states and many crimes are left unsolved until we can input some of the data that we have in other places so i think that we need to keep moving
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forward. i appreciate our conversation and i hope we continue this to a point where we can get rid of the 500,000 untested rape kits that are sitting on the shelves. that's 500,000 victims and perpetrators -- justice. >> thank you mr. honda. i recognize chairman rogers. [inaudible] >> you are battling with apple over access to syed farook the san bernardino shooter, you are
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hoping to gain access to that phone to find out if there may have been other people involved and so forth. the ceo of apple says that your request would create dangerous legal precedent. it would endanger the privacy of anyone with an iphone. what do you think? >> what we are doing in california with the u.s. attorney's office and the san bernardino investigation as we have a search for one of the terrorist bombs in the fun is one that is locked. he can't be opened and if we try to guess his passcode after the tenth guess the phone while auto erase and so what the judge who was in the search warrant came from has issued an order to manufacture the phone saying you must do two things. you must shut off the auto erase feature on that particular phone and you must also shut off the feature that when you start to guess it makes her way to longer
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period of time between each guest to reason being so the fbi can let electronically try to guess the terrorists password and instead of the taking 10 years again be done in minutes and maybe hours. that's a judge's order. and manufactures resisted it and will have a chance to explain the legal basis as is or should be. we serve so people can litigate an object. i don't honestly understand all of the argument about privacy. my view of this matter is, this is a single phone and a very important investigation where the ask is you write a piece of software that will work only in that phone and not anybody else's phone and apple can hold the phone so the software you write never has to leave your premises. we will send you guesses, electronically and if you open it it it comes up and so i don't quite understand some of the comments that have been made publicly about how this is going to affect our world but i think
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it does illustrate the bigger challenge we face. i'm a huge fan of privacy. i love encryption. it's a great thing by their need for public safety and our need for privacy or crashing into each other and we have got to sort that out as a people. sometimes they are companies say we are going to get you to place where no one could ever look at your device and even i react to that saying i don't want anybody going through my phone and then you stop and say wait a minute, law enforcement sometimes saves their lives, save their children, saves the neighborhoods by getting search warrants from judges, sometimes her suitcases or an apartment, sometimes for phones. if we are going to get to world where there are spaces in american life that are mean to judicial search warrants is a very different world in which we live and we have got to talk about that. corp. shouldn't drive us there. the fbi shouldn't make this decision. the american people should decide that we want to be governed? san bernardino is a hugely important case but the bigger issue is tremendously important.
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>> what would you be looking for in this particular case? >> in this case we are looking for compliance with a court order and apple write a one-off piece of software that writes the software. >> what i mean is what could you possibly learn from being able to access at all? >> possibly an in asides that i'd know whether there is evidence of another terrorist on the phone or nothing at all that we ought to be fired in the fbi if we didn't pursue that lead. we could not look that the victims in the face and say we decided not to execute a search warrant on a phone because it would be awkward or people would feel uncomfortable about it in some way. we have a duty to try to do that. if the judge says no the law doesn't permit that we are big fans of the rule of law and that will be the end of it that we think we have to follow that lead. this is a live investigation and it's hard to imagine circumstance where our work is more toward numbness.
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>> well, as you said before it leads to the discussion of the larger picture of the use of the technology that we enjoy today for evil purposes, what have you to say about that? >> this is the hardest problem i've seen in government. it implicates america's gift for innovation, book and -- implicates privacy, implicates the rule of law and implicates public safety silly can be bumper sticker. the fbi has two investigate cases and the second is to make sure folks understand that this world some people imagine where nobody can look at your stuff is a world that will have public safety costs. they may decide okay it's worth it but we shouldn't go there without people understanding so i'm hoping is we will never have a day where folks look at us and say what do you mean you can't?
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you have a judges search warrant. a child is missing and there has been a horrific crime. before we get to that day we just have to talk about it and understand how do we optimize all these things we care about? privacy and safety, how do we do that and it's not easy. >> quickly, my time is almost at an and. in the last decade heroin use in this country is increased by 63% how much of that is attributable to the mexican cartel like sinaloa and how are we letting this amount of hair when come into the country? >> the country is facing an mr. chairman you know this better than any american the country is facing a waive of highly pure heroin and that is washing across now primarily the eastern united states but as the waive of pure methamphetamine
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washes over the western united states and the waives are moving towards each other and they start to pass each other in the middle of the united states almost all of it comes from mexico. methamphetamine and heroin is highly pure. it's cheap because the mexican cartel are growing the poppies in southern mexico so they are a business. their supply lines are very short so there pushing pure heroin to the united states and especially kids are finding it so easy to move from opioid abuse to this highly pure heroin abuse and dying in the process so this is something i have had my eyes opened to and formed a partnership with the dea to try to do something about it but is washing over us from mexico and there are lots of challenges to the interdiction effort. the director of national intelligence this morning was talking about how in his view we need more resources for the coast guard because of their inability to interdict these topless have been diminished and their resources have been diminished. i don't know the answer for sure
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but i think it's an emergency united states. >> now they are mixing very powerful synthetic with heroin, not knowing the dash potency and overdosing and dying. what do you say about that? >> fentanyl is 40 to 50 times more powerful than heroin so they are mixing fence and all a witch -- a lot of which comes from china with the heroin and even people who think they have gotten used to the hair when her killed in a snap when it has that extra hit of fentanyl and that so the reason you mentioned chuck rosenburg and i didn't ensure to try to help educators and families understand what's going on here, there are thousands of people dying in this country from heroin, it tens of thousands from opioid abuse and heroin and it's a big of a problem it's almost hard to get our minds around but we simply must.
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>> more people died from overdose from opioids than car wrecks. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman. ms. lowey. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you again for articulating so clearly the challenge we are facing between privacy and security. i won't continue on that task but definite views on that. another issue related to cybersecurity i remain concerned with the cyber criminals on corporations payment systems resulting in the fast of consumers personal information. in the last few weeks the fast food restaurant wendy's announced an investigation of the potential credit card reach of which they don't know the size yet of the recent large financial data breaches affecting payment systems including target and 2013,
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40 million records of customers names, addresses and telephone numbers, e-mail address is. 213,152,000,000 customer names encrypted passwords, encrypted payment card information. home depot 2014, 56 million customer e-mail address and payment cards. just some of the examples of breaches that we know of but thousands more i'm sure not printed in the newspaper because the companies don't want you to get this information to the stockholders. your budget includes an additional 85 million to address the problem but it seems to me that unless there are consequences these will continue to be very attractive activities for criminals. i can remember 10 years ago by greg kelly the new york police
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department and it seems they were always behind of these events after they occurred. so how many of these cyber reaches and put the responsible party being arrested and prosecuted, what can we really do about this? what concerns me the most about the briefings i got from police commissioner kelly is we were always behind and very often the corporations don't want anyone to know, so thank you. >> the honest answer to your how many question is not enough. we don't have good statistics on how often is happening for some of the reasons you alluded to but the major problem we face is so many of these offenders are outside the united states because the internet allows them to travel. they don't ever have to come into jfk and get their luggage and steal from us. they are able to do it through the internet so we have to as you said impose a cost so they
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don't think it's a freebie from america. our goal is to have them feel somebody's breath on the back as they are sitting on the keyboard wherever they are around the world and the only way we get that is if we lock people up. we have made good progress here, not good enough, and a couple of ways. from the fbi's perspective we are embedding more cyber agents and cyber analysts overseas that fit with local policing counterparts so as old-fashioned as that seems, so we can get the evidence to make the case and get our foreign counterparts to arrest these people. that's the first thing. the second thing is we are trying to make it less profitable even for those who steal. what has happened since ray kelly's briefing is crooks, their world has evolved to such a sophisticated place they actually have marker places now for criminals where a few steal credit card information you don't even have to know where to sell it to. go to the marketplace and higher cash a person or higher a coder
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so we are focused on trying to destroy those marketplaces because it's actually a weak spot in the criminal world. they have evolved and gotten sophisticated but he gets his chance to attack them have a hub that will disrupt their activities so we have got a lot of people to send that message around the world and we have to attack them where they are the most vulnerable and that's in their marketplaces. that is how we are thinking about the strategy. >> i've mentioned several situations that are pretty public. how good is the communication between the private sector and your office or other law enforcement offices or are they still not quite sharing. >> has gotten better because the board of directors or boards of directors are asking about it and ceos are asking about it. do we have a relationship with the fbi for the payment card folks especially the secret service and are they sharing information with us and are we sharing it back? that is improved dramatically. still not good enough but our
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economy is so big and complex but it's in a much better place today than it was to an app years ago because people have a business imperative. it will save you money if you develop a a relationship with us and we can tell you what the indicators are an lockyer darkens them so we quickly respond if you are attacked. .. between you and your staff and the corporations before something happens. if they are sharing a technology or they are all keeping their own system to themselves. >> the companies will tell you this as well. it's got much much better.
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we have built something called the malware investigator. ..
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>> >> the fbi showed up at their doorstep and said we thank you have the problem and they sat down in what the research center through the attack. they had no idea that once again the chinese had broken in and stolen this stuff. you do great work in this area and we need to continue to help you. >> last year was refers to testify. >> testified there was an active investigation in all 50 states but since then to
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students were arrested trying to join isis. can you give us an update what the fbi is doing to keep residents from joining terrorist groups? >> i remember well our conversation. the picture today is worse in some ways in better and others. but the number of investigations we have been two people who are in some spectrum from consuming to a influences' slowly rising we have about 1,000 now and that is very concerned interco -- concerning. but the number of people willing to travel to the caliphate is dropping. i hope that we have given people as a federal courts
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have given significant jail sentences to join isis or attempting to go so there is a huge cost to deal with these savages. , hope that trend will continue but the case from mississippi illustrates the challenge of those who were looking for a center in their life and through the propaganda. there remains a common feature in the united states >> and to recruit american citizens those numbers seem to be trending down but still trying to recruit people to do harm to here in america. what does the fbi do to protect within their own
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country? to make everything we can under the law to make sure that we have people and communities to will tell us when they seize something odd. we have a robust undercover presence in try to make sure we're tightly connected with law-enforcement because the deputy sheriff in the police officers that know their neighborhoods in the kids in to build relationships with american companies that do not want their products used by terrorists. to see things overseas that we can follow up on. those five are probably at the core.
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>> thinks for being with us. i am honored to represent secretary mabus tribes i take our nation's responsibility to promote sovereignty vice take that seriously. but 25 percent of violent crimes prosecuted by u.s. attorney are tied to indian country. i would like to hear how the fbi promotes self-sufficiency? i would like to get a sense how much money is made available for tribal law enforcement? id internally had to operations with their own capacity for of violent criminal acts?
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women thank you for your interest and i worry that it times the reservation seems like got a constituency. nobody speaks for the violence and the harm to children with the reservation and lonely the native american people. there is a huge feature of the work that i have taken a personal interest i have visited reservations when i was deputy attorney general and had two daughters under church mission went to an indian reservation two years ago and said you must do something. they're probably the most important constituency so i had to report to my daughter's.
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[laughter] salonga things is try to incentivize our talent to go do that work. we create incentives for the best and brightest to go work in those indian countries. i don't have the particular numbers but they have to be different line of defense. and then that is the tribal law enforcement and then they are solving this challenge it is so big and horrific that it isn't any easy answer. >> switching gears entirely earlier this month in hospital in less than angeles was scant with a
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$17,000 were paid just to read access to the hospital computers. wheat we have heard of these attacks perpetrated against cities or law-enforcement agencies are schools and companies in regular citizens. i would like to get a sense what type of cybercrimes should be looked at? are you learning any lessons from that? is there any direction of policy makers of what could be done to provide the resources you need? >> it is a phenomenon sweeping across people and institutions from the
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computer hygiene perspective everybody within the sound of my voice should have a good backup whether a laptop or a hospital you must ensure that you have adequate back up because the internet is a very hard place to police and someone may try to lock up your device you are immune if you have a good backup. that is my overwhelming piece of advice. then we have to impose cost denny's people but asking that many be wired to the we have to track them down it is hard is something we're trying to do every single day.
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>> director you know, with the iowa guard you are an example of excellence that we are very proud of. after much frustration with the veterans administration and the conspiracies to shuffle papers i asked your assistance is you became involved. and now was that judges don't comment on investigations that we get 300 calls a week.
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bin these are veterans that our concerned. what can we tell them about progress? with the veterans getting reached. >>'' i checked yesterday knowing i would be here. we don't talk about our work for good reasons but i can assure those who call are on it and we're working it very hard. is something that is very important to me i introduced a bill to include the active shooter. into be involved i think it
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gives access to local law-enforcement with something they cannot afford now. . .
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realizing both officers responded they were successful and they are both active shooter training, one by the fbi. it obviously works. >> i hear about it all over the country. i i travel a lot and meet with state and local on force me. it actually inspired us to produce a video, a movie called the coming storm. it is about an active shooter incident in a community college that is so good and so important to law-enforcement, we have made tens of thousands of copies and are giving it away around the country. >> that's great.
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we thank you for that. by the way, as we started that process they been very cooperative, they've encouraged us and i'm happy to do that. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you for being here. i appreciate the full committee chairman bringing up the current matter with apple. i have some very strong opinions about that and there's a question here, i want to start by thanking you for being diligent in pursuing the court order and staying on top of this. i look at my view of the world and i realize there is one member of the community does not necessarily affect the whole committee. but this is a court order. apple is refusing to comply with that order and frankly if they are billiard to comply means there is additional information out there that has already contributed to other incidents, or will in the future contribute to other incidents of terrorism or national security i think apple leadership risks
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having blood on their hands. i think they'll have a hard time standing in the way of justice in this issue. i think i think you for what you are doing. this is not my iphone you are trying to look at. this is the iphone that syed farouq who i believe is an individual who gave up everyone of his civil liberties the day he killed 14 americans and injured 21. i think you for what you are doing on that. i know our chairman asked what might be on the phone and it led to the content of communications. from a factual standpoint though , what are the files on a typical phone and what profile might you be able to build of his activity or communications. as a layperson i would presume phone calls, messages, but what profile do you not have of this murder that you might otherwise have #. >> the challenge we face in this case is the phone was last backed up three weeks before the attack.
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so, very often and again i do not do any of this to pick on a company. i find the company has been helpful in a lot of ways. it just got to the point where we will not assist you further. for reasons that i do not i believe the hold honestly. if if the stuff is backed up to the eye cloud, apple cooperates with court orders that we get backed up photos, all kinds of records about people. we can get them lawfully with the judges authorization. anything that might have been backed up to the cloud may still be on the phones that will be photos, text, notes, gps information, where this phone travel. one of the real concerns is, the 19 minutes we cannot figure out where they were after the attack. we have looked at gas station camera, intersection camera, the whole route but we are missing 19 minutes before they were killed. the answer to that may be on the device. >> on a phone you would have gps or tower signals that you would
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know approximately where they were? >> sure, they have locator services turned on in connection with the ball. all of us, these phones are wonderful, i love them and our entire lives in a way are on the phone. that is why people ask good questions about privacy. it is also why i want people to take a step back and say, if we got to a world where those places were warrant proof, what does the world look like? that is the thing i want people to understand. it is not the bureau people opening people devices. now, if we want to open your device we go to a judge to a judge and make a showing of probable cause and they give us a warrant and tell us what we can take from the device and how we can do it. >> i think you for that. obviously you know the perspective from which i am coming and i am sick and tired of in this town and across the
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country of people not abiding with law-enforcement. in this case that includes apple and tim cook. you have folks appear that i know would side with law-enforcement. i appreciate what you are doing and i hope you do prevail. we will leave that to the courts to decide. i do not doubt their intentions. i agree with that. i do not doubt apple's intention. i think they are wrong on this one and airing on the side of privacy and cloaking what is a national security moment in which they could contribute to a safer which they could contribute to a safer america and they are choosing not to. i appreciate you. >> thank you. >> i recently visited and saw the very serious and persistent threats to our information security systems and infrastructure. last year the country learned of a huge loss of personal data from the office of personnel management, against all by the chinese who continue to be the worst actors out there.
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during the super bowl weekend hackers posted on my personal information for over 20,000 fbi and 9000 homeland security employees as a source of great concern to all of us. the department of justice said it was looking into the on authorized access to the system operated by one of its components. there have been news reports and arrest has been made. you are asking for six 26,000,000 for your cyber security program which is an $85 increase. could you dollar increase. could you talk to us about how the fbi is dealing with this threat and the reality of intrusions like this and how will this increase help you address that threat both for the fbi, the department and for the country in general? >> thank you mr. chairman. we are dealing with this threat and a number of different ways which i can summarize briefly. we are trying to shrink the world, what i mean by that is we are trying to impose costs on the bad guys so they know no matter where they are we can reach them and put handcuffs on them.
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we are trying to shrink the world within the government. i'm so glad you visited the nci gtf because that is the best example of what we are doing. probably ten years ago the cyber response was like 4-year-old soccer. everybody chase the ball. i have five children and i watch a lot of soccer they chase the ball in a big club. what this represents is about 20 federal agencies agencies with responsibilities that touch cyber sitting together, and that's a big deal on national government and sharing information about what you see, what you see, and who is going to do what about it. we spread out on the field if we stay with the sacramento for and deciding who has the clear shot, who is in the best position. that is the answer. the problem is so enormous no one can do it alone. if we all chase that we are going to ignore big piece of it. that is the first thing. the first thing. the second thing is with the budget increases for his we have to make sure we equip our people with the right stuff to be able to respond to this. a key part of this ask is for us to be able to have a high-speed network to move these enormous
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clumps of data that will help us see and understand the cyber threat. the last piece of the 85,000,000 dollars is for training. it is vital for us to train our folks and state and local law enforcement to be able to respond to this threat. it is getting more sophisticated every day. we are trained to shrink the world, trying to equip our folks better, trying to make our folks better, trying to make sure they are trained well. obviously we need to attract right people to do this workforce and keep them in the harness doing the work with the fbi. that is how i would describe our strategy. >> thank you sir. >> thank you mr. chairman. director i have serious concerns about the privacy implications also of the fbi ongoing attempt to force apple, which is to create a hack to create the fbi to gain access to encrypted information on the phone of one of those san bernardino shooters. i realize you face a tough challenge investigating this attack on our nation and our
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communities. however what the fbi request will echo be on this case. it will create a weakness that can be exploited by attacks on apple by those seeking to gain access to the new code that the fbi seeks. these possibilities must be weighed against information the fbi will be able to recover from the phone of the san bernadino shooters. you have said repeatedly this is about one phone, yet there have been multiple new stories highlighting other phones that the government seeks to access. can you promise that this is the only time you will ask apple or any company to create software to gain access to a phone, as you know apple is an international company. if apple were to comply with the u.s. government request to build code to a specific need, do you worry about china and russia requesting the same? >> thank you. i'm going to try to make sure i hit all parts of your question. first let me start by what i
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understand the court order is to be directing. i am not an expert but i talked to a lot of experts i will give it my best shot. i do not think it is accurate to say that the manufacturers been asked to create some code that could get loose on the land and do harm into different respects. first, what we directed them to do is to write a piece a code that would only work in the terrace phone because it would written to the unique signature of that phone. second, they will have custody of it the entire time. the phone would be at the manufacture, the manufacturer, the code would be at the manufacture, i think they have excellent security. in fact it in 2014 and before applewood on mock phones routinely in response to search warrants and do it at their headquarters. i have never heard anything about anything getting loose and hurting us there. i look at that was some skepticism. >> are you saying that apple's
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technology for eye it is for one individual phone and it will not affect other phones. i'm going to try to explain it how i understand it. the release we seek is obsolete and here's why i say because there is a 5c phone running ios nine. that comes with operating system and hardware that is increasingly outdated. the 5c still has the ability for apple to write a unique code for that one phone that will shut off the auto you and delay function. i do not believe that is possible the way they built the six and after the 5c. they did the hardware differently. i actually do not think that even if the judge said this is appropriate after hearing from
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apple that the technique will be useful in later generation phones running ios nine and thereafter. that is is what i am told by experts. the right thing about the court system is that they will be able to sort this out. >> i am not a lawyer, but let me ask the question, if that were to be done for one phone at this one instance and create precedents, will that precedents require other opportunities for law-enforcement to access other technology of other people's phone. >> yes. i am i am a lawyer. it definitely might. here's what will happen. >> my follow-up question. >> and i explained why? the judge will issue a decision in california interpreting the statute that would not be binding on other judges but there will be other phones as i've been saying for two years.
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this is a huge issue for state and local law enforcement. there be other phones and judges will look for that to see if there is a similar circumstance. there's no doubt about that. so if it does have precedents, what what is the impact on constitutional principles? >> that is a good question. the precedents will be created under the framework of our constitution. a search warrant is an exercise of authority under the fourth amendment. what congress passed in the fourth amendment in 1789 is an exercise of the court's jurisdiction. the great thing about this is, and i keep stressing, this is not us going and opening peoples once. it is us going to constitutional court asking for permission under the fourth amendment to do something. so it would be a president in the sense that the court would look to it to see whether it was useful. the entire framework is under our rule of law. >> not to be argumentative, this
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is technology but it's still a constitutional question that seems to me in terms of you are arguing security versus private c. in 1941 in december we had pearl harbor. there is a group of u.s. citizens in this country that were incarcerated based upon security and privacy and national security. these folks were moved in total to other places without due process. when we looked at it 40 or 50 years later with some hind sight we realize that we reacted, not judiciously but we use the supreme court to justify some of
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the actions of the governments. so i'm just saying this one person who seen this kind of thing happen is very cautious about how we move forward. i understand the tragedy, i have mentioned that. in in times of tranquility our constitution very rarely is challenging. with trauma and tragedy it is when when we need to be thoughtful about it. just think it through because we do not want to make a mistake as a nation that believes in the rules of law. >> i agree completely. that why i think it is so important that this is a national conversation. the stakes are too high. it affects how we are going to live, how we are going to govern ourselves for our children's lies in a ran children lives. i do nothing it should it should be decided by one court case, or
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the fbi or some company. the american people need to decide how we want to be. >> thank you mr. chairman. just to say that i agree that we should have a national conversation because in the past these kind of things have always been rushed into. thoughtful people need to get together with their own opinions and hash it out. i appreciate that. >> thank you. >> the question include 783 and half million for fbi headquarters construction. actually 646 million is for the building, the others for the things. that is a huge request. at the same time, you are proposing significant cuts in
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fbi operations which i find a bit troubling. tell me how important it is for a new building. >> very, very important. i will have failed if i leave the fbi in the current crumbling infrastructure. i will fill the taxpayer vertically because we are in a dozen dozen or more facilities around washington that are incredibly inefficient. we are blowing all kinds of money on leases that we should not base spending because we have outgrown headquarters i was about 40 years ago. it is literally falling down. the reason while were not on the top floor is -- i think it is critical for the bureau to be in place that is commensurate to
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protect the american people. i know it is expensive but the vision is a build a building that i will be long gone from this earth and it is still functioning and efficient, and safe for our folks. i'm a fairly stingy person when it comes to money. this is money i believe is well spent. to be good stewards, we are also squeezing ourselves in other areas. we need to make sure that we are not only talking it but we are walking the talk. >> just as you very eloquently described earlier instructions to your employees, that car is not yours treated like the american public. we. we do that with the dollars. so we are really stingy with what we pass out too. we try to treat these dollars like they are our own. actually the request total is for 1.4 billion. about half of which is for gsa. have roughly for fbi. the request also includes what i think is an unworkable gimmick
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to authorize doj to working capital funds to be used for construction. how do you propose that's work? >> mr. chairman i do not know enough about that to give you an intelligent answer. i understand the money we asked for, i understand that gsa intends to have whoever wins the bid take our existing building and partial payments, but i do not understand enough about the working capital. i will give you a smart answer but i cannot answer right now. >> to know what the intended use of the present building would be? >> i think gsa's idea is to sell it to a developer, the developer, the developer who built our building will get a partial payments of the current building and can develop it however the local law allows him to develop it. hotel or office
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building or something like that. it will be using that object as partial payment of the new building. >> this is a gsa deal, that is is my understanding of how they will do it. >> has there been a site for the new building. >> no, it it is narrow to three possibles. this year the competing developers and builders will offer their proposals and it will be a selection thereafter to pick which of the sites is the smartest one. two are in maryland, one by the greenbelt metro, one by fedex field, the third site is in springfield, just south of where 95 leaves the beltway heading south. >> mr. director, thank you for your service. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> mr. director, rather than selling the property hanging onto it and leasing it. i know that is some of the most successful real estate
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developers in downtown houston that all property back in 1840s and 50s. just hung onto it. they lease it out like shell headquarters, most of of the big buildings in downtown houston are at least property. maybe you could explore that as well. why swell a valuable valuable piece of real estate, why not hang onto it and lease it out? it would be like a little oil well for you. just keep pumping your after your. >> thank you mr. chairman. i just want to say again how much i appreciate and how fortunate we all are to have a person of your caliber in this position. i know you have served an outstanding role in new york and we are glad the president was wise enough to bring you here to washington d.c. thank you. i just want to say as a result of my colleagues comments on both sides of the aisle, i also appreciate your articulation of the challenge you are facing
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between privacy and security. i may have a different perspective than my colleague mr. honda but i certainly appreciate the sincerity of thoughtfulness in which you presented your views. i thank you. i want to continue a discussion briefly within my time of an issue i brought up in my opening statement and that is background checks. as we know under the law background checks must be done within three days of the transaction is allowed to proceed. regardless of whether a whether a person is lawfully permitted to purchase a firearm, to meet the growing demand your budget requests $35 million in funding for improvements to the system to support 175 additional staff. it seems to me vitally important
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that ground checks are done thoroughly as a result of incomplete information can be deadly. for instance, following the tragic south carolina mass shooting it was discovered that the shooter had passed a background check despite information that could have disqualified him. i was shocked to hear that. to those who lost their lives, they must feel the pain to think this could have been avoided. i was pleased that last summer you ordered a review of the incident. can you briefly share what the review discovered, is it appropriate for you to disk share with us? >> yes. thank you for that. the south carolina shooting, the murder dillon roof got the gun is a painful thing for all of us at the fbi. he did not pass the background check, we had just not resolve
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the question about his criminal history by the end of the third day. so the seller, under the law was able to transfer it to him. he killed the folks thereafter. the review i ordered established the facts as i understood them at the time was what i understood, i did not learn anything new. we learned that we needed to do better, it's a long story, but the reason he was not picked up his our information on some of the geographical oddities of south carolina caused our examiner to miss something. so we fixed that and we concluded that we need more folks answering the phones because the number of gun purchases are going up. we need to update our technology which was already underway. then we need to get the american criminal justice system to dramatically improve its record keeping. one of the big flaws in our entire criminal justice system is dispositions. people are not
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not good enough at entering the final conviction or result in a criminal case at the federal level and local level. if that is not and there are examiners are not good to see that the person is a convicted felon. and prohibited people will get guns. those were the big conclusions from the study. we are asking for your support to get more people in there, the technology updates are underway and we are talking to her state and local partners. we are talking to ourselves and the federal government to improve our record-keeping so we have better results. >> yes. thank you for that, however as i understand it the majority of firearm purchases from law-abiding citizens can take minutes, but those with incomplete information or read flakes, the request for information can go on for days. it is not necessarily that you need more people answering the phone to do what they have to do so the question is, in these cases how long can it take for
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final determination even after a gun has been purchased and i am concerned that three days may not always be enough time to evaluate a background check with questionable information. i think that is an issue that we need to discuss no matter where we stand with the nra, not with the nra, whether you buy a gun or not. or not. we need a careful background check. i think it's not that you just need more people, you need more time. is that correct? >> under the law, we have three days. >> that is exactly what i'm questioning. >> about 9000 people a year we find out after the third day that they were prohibited. about 50% of those we find out between day for a day ten. most of the prohibited people who are outside the three days we find out before the tenth day. that is 9000 people of millions
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and millions of gun transactions. but it is still, we have to improve. the laws the law, the fbi dysthymic the law. if it is three days we have to make sure we are as good as we possibly can in the three day window. that's why we need more window. that's why we need more people and better technology, better records. >> i would just like to ask you, if in in fact the time was extended, not sure it should be five days or ten days, that the professional judgment but with viewer prohibited individuals be able to purchase firearms if this time were extended? >> the math would tell me us. because of the numbers i gave you. but, as i said the law is the law so the bureau is working very hard to make sure that we are excellence. >> i understand, i do not want to put you on the spot and i understand the laws the law. you have many people here that make the laws. i want to conclude here that it should be a serious consideration, if in fact we do so would happen in
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charleston and we see many other cases if three days does not seem sufficient none of us would want people to go around purchasing guns if you look at the facts and they should not be able to do so. i would hope that we can consider extending the days, working on a recommendation that makes sense that we give you
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. >> the piece that we focus on is that we are working hard to make sure that we have trippers in
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place so if anyone is using the border we get an indication of it. we have not seen it so far but it is something that we are focused on because of the vulnerability there. so that is the bureau's business to make sure all of our border offices are doing lots of things but especially focused on, do you have those sources and relationships in place to know someone gets wind that a terrorist is trying to come in that way. i think we are doing that in a good way but i don't want to be overconfident. it is a vulnerability and that is where we spend time worrying about it. >> do you have a number that you can share with us that people who have crossed our border that may have links to terrorism? >> i do not. it is very small. we have not seen it yet. our worry is those people who are smuggling humans and smuggling drugs, try to smuggle terrace. in awad way we count on the fact that they know what would happen if the american people found out that a drug cartel was smuggling terrorists into the united states.
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so that acts as a deterrent, oddly enough enough on the cartels for getting in that business. look, i don't sleep well at night counting on the cartels to act in a rational way. i think it's very small. i don't pick we have identified anyone coming in who we have confirmed comes in association with a terrorist organization in my two and half year. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to ask something that i know the ranking member has worked a lot on and that is the increasing level of reported violence against the transgender people. the fbi latest it to six suggest a significant increase and there were more transgender homicide victims in 2015 then any other recorded year, at least 21 transgender women all of them women of color lost their lives to violence. what is the fbi doing to address this increase in violence
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against transgender americans and do you you have adequate resources to combat what is a very disturbing trend? >> there's no doubt it is a disturbing trend. homicide homicide is not nationwide but it is dramatically up in the venerable community. we're looking at two different ways or civil rights program their criminal division runs that we focus on that expressly, we ask our 56 field officers to make sure they have relationships with state, locals, and service providers might know people were victims are likely to be victims so that we can bring that information and respond to it. with respect respect to the question of resources, i do not know that we will ever have enough resources frankly. my senses in our civil rights program we have adequate resources to address what is in front of us. >> thank you. i know time is short. so i will you'll back. >> my constituents in texas have asked reassurance that no
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individual or officeholders above the law. yesterday spoke with the attorney general she indicated she was fully prepared to take on the case against hillary clinton for mishandling the classified information should the evidence be available. she also indicated she was waiting the fbi investigation. i know your position on investigation but do have some estimates of when you expect that timing to the prosecutors of the doj if they are any and if there is undue pressure influence to delay the presentation of the case? >> thank you judge. i cannot, in keeping with our normal practice give anybody an estimate on timing. i can tell you this, i am personally following this investigation, get briefed on it regularly. i want to ensure it is done in
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the way the fbi does its work, professionally, with integrity, promptly, we want all investigations to move promptly and without complications. i assure you we have resources on up with people a technical. i don't normally follow a lot of investigation, i'm following this to make sure it is done the way the american people would want it done. i promise you that is what is going on. >> you do not get the question? i would expect nothing less. and this is very important no matter how it concludes that it be done professionally and that we let the american people know, none of us are above the law. >> i can assure you that i have a dedicated my whole life to that proposition and i am not about to change. >> thank you. >> thank you director, we we have great faith in your integrity and professionalism.
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>> thank you mr. chairman. let me preface my, my, by saying i really do appreciate your job. i don't want it. >> you can't for seven and have more your. >> having said that, i understand the economic espionage is hard for ability to retain jobs at home. i'm concerned espionage threats from bad actors abroad create a climate in which both investigators and prosecutors here are jumping to the gun and pursuing indictments against americans who happen to be language minorities. raising the prospect of serious civil liberties violations. for example the federal employee at noah it inducted and the chairman of physics department at the university were arrested by fbi agents on both of fluency espionage charges only later to have them dropped after weeks,
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. >> let me just cut to the chase. i think we need to have a discussion on the process by which you are pursuing these kind of cases. the thought process that you go through. i do not think that is classified. so i look forward to having some sort of meeting with yourself, your staff and with k pack. we should just hash this out if you wanted a close session. we need to know and there has to be some sort of apology to these folks who have been put through this and losing their jobs and we try to get some sort of justice for these folks have been unfairly targeted. it is is
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not unlike some other cases in the past. if we are going to have americans with different backgrounds participating, we have to have some sort of resolution on this. >> we would be happy to talk you about it. i cannot talk about individual cases in your request for an apology is an assumption that i cannot comment on. but i cannot comment on it. we will be happy to talk about how we go through the process and how we think about investigation. >> we will cement the remainder of our questions to you in writing. again, i want to want to thank you for your service to the country. we do indeed have complete faith in your integrity, your professionalism, your absolute objectivity. all that you do, we thank we thank you for keeping us safe. it helps us all leap assembly at night. >> thank you mr. chairman.
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[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> but to be on 48 hours nonfiction books and authors every weekend on c-span2.
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here are some of the programs to watch for this weekend. saturday at 7:30 p.m. eastern, david randall of the national association of scholars talks about some of the books incoming college freshmen are asked to review for class. on sunday night at 9:00 p.m. on afterwards, former nsa and cia director gives us an inside look at national security in his book, plain to the edge, american intelligence in the age of terror. he is interviewed by the former cia director of the clinton administration. >> metadata is the outside of the envelope for electronic vindication. as you said american law-enforcement traditionally has looked at the outset of the emblem. the supreme court decided the fact of your phone call, who you call, when, for how long also is essentially the outside of the envelope. >> watch book book to be all weekend, every weekend on c-span2. television for serious readers.
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>> how can we best get people to pay attention to wasteful spending. we tend to find things that are interesting, a little different, easy different, easy to understand because the government is so large and organization has to cut through a lot of the noise and a lot of the other things that are going on. members of congress talking about the wonderful things they're doing and try to get people to get more involved. and make it more personable so they understand the impact on them, their families, children, grandchildren. >> grandchildren. >> sunday night on q&a, thomas shaft, citizens against government waste talks about his efforts to bring attention to wasteful government spending. they also publish the pig book which compiles on authorize government programs. >> we work with a bipartisan coalition of members of congress which was then called the congressional pork busters and
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they came up with us with a definition of what was called porkbarrel spending and really still is. it then became the term earmarks. we went to the appropriations bill and started at the first year was about 3,000,000,000 dollars. it went up went up to $29 billion in 2006. every year that we can find earmarks in the appropriations bill we renew lease it around sometime in april or may. >> sunday night at eight eastern. >> our goal here is to talk to the candidates about social security. >> i feel like it's very important to get out to vote because it's the only way besides local elections that we
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can voice our opinion. >> on fridays at washington journal, we talked to congressman doug collins, republican of of georgia. topics included the fbi's lawsuit against apple, the supreme court vacancy, the 2016 presidential 16 presidential race. this is 30 minutes. >> doug collins, member of the judiciary committee in the house, you have a big hearing coming up next week on apple encryption and the fbi. where do you currently stand on that issue? >> guest: i think this is going to become a defining issue in the next little bit. we've had a classified hearing the judiciary. i don't -- i think we can be a slippery slope. i think apple is fighting book, i think they should be fighting


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