Skip to main content

tv   2015 Miami Book Fair Sunday  CSPAN  November 27, 2015 6:00pm-2:31am EST

6:00 pm
6:01 pm
is an examination of the 1692 salem witch trial by pulitzer prize winning author stacy shea. several of these authors however will be appearing a book to be, you can watch them on our website, book to [inaudible conversations] .. >> welcome back to our continuing coverage of the miami book fair. some of the authors include leonard pitts, p.j. or were killed and others. fall was sawed twitter. the full schedule is available on the web sitele i for the first event is you will hear from longtime journalist and the herb rabbi teetoo discuss their books that are memoirs.
6:02 pm
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
6:03 pm
[inaudible conversations]
6:04 pm
[inaudible conversations] >> good morning. we'll go to the miami book fair our 302nd celebration in a and happy sunday. it is truly wonderful to have all of you here hopefully you had an opportunity throughout the week to enjoy the many
6:05 pm
author sessions to purchase an some books and some othermiam highlights at miami book fair. of a bite to give a specialiend greeting to the friends of miami book fair. [applause] we are truly grateful with your support and friendship over the years. they could not take place without the thousands of volunteers with the faculty and staff of miami-dade college thank you for the applause. to be the founder of this o wonderful event it will be
6:06 pm
another wonderful day as we closete the book fair this evening. spo thank you to our sponsors as well. please turn off your cellphone and welcome one of our sponsors the women's fund from miami-dade county will make formal introductions. [applause] >> good morning.>> thanks for g joining us today. i am from the of women's march that gives - - has been to miami 22 years we raise money out to women in girl organizations given up
6:07 pm
3.$7 million of 470 programsprog the queue that to those that support is today and then i will tell you about gail. a world renowned author the popular lecturer has changed the way millions of women and men around the globelo with their lives in the 50writ yearser she has interviewed thousands of women and men riding 70 books the earliest revolutionary book passages that explored a the predictable crisis of development was named by the
6:08 pm
library of congress as one of the most 10 influential books of our that is quite an accomplishment. and later including the silent passage she dared to place a spotlight on taboo subjects like menopause inlity this section maliki of older women. i can relate to that. [laughter] one of the original contributors has been a contributing editor to "vanity fair" and covered national and world leaders of men like robert kennedynd in her latest book she focuses of lead sadr on passages her trials and as triumphs her magical love9
6:09 pm
affair with her rise to become one of these premier political profilers of theli modern time in speaking fromas experience she also founded and of my initiative you should check out to encourage women of all ages to dream dangerously and conquer their fears and act with confidence. with the no-holds-barred a testament to resilience and daring it offers able perspective of life'ss passages. metal they do i get toga introduce scale but i have the pleasure to introduce herald a rabbi from temple israel is in the posture and -- boston suburb.
6:10 pm
author of more than a dozen books on coping with life's challenges overcoming life's the disappointments and the book of job. in in his book the ninth things i have learned about life he has nine lessons from experience offering and spiritual food for thought and pragmatic advice and the inspiration for a morean fulfilling life.t it is my honor to introduce them to present to you today. [applause] >> good morning.
6:11 pm
trying again. good morning. great. thanks to the women's fund to sponsor this session they had been doing work 20 years and have funded more than 400 programs for women and girls in miami-dade. i will go over here to my perch.yn that i have spent many of the last 50 years exploring the up passages of thousands of women and men. what ideas did to my seven days i thought i should turn the land on my own passages. it took almost three years to excavate my life to pull the rips apart and to find
6:12 pm
outa what was i doing?ng and to interview people to get their take on what i was like at that time. so that was the theme thatme emerged and that is why i encourage you when you get to your 50s or 60s to write a memoir even if just for your family because you put together the structure and the feet of your life and you still have time to make additions and correctionspr but you have a wonderful history to lead for your grandchildren who aree interested to hear about it not so much today are ted but when they are 20 day love that.ey
6:13 pm
>> the first thing i have to say is the curiosity aid for the less traveled road with the t courage to say it is the bravery to say i'm still here. furthermore did you ever try to do something you have ever done before you failed but failed and tried again and again until you feel for word? date you ever find of police to a group for a person you did not have though
6:14 pm
wherewithal to speak for themselves? that is tearing did you ever cross the age barrier or urged gender barrier?the probably most of the women in this room have crossed more than once because to sit down" end quote. sure arms. that takes confidence if you don't have the confidence take acting lessons. [laughter] they are very helpful. f i will tell the few stories of the daring moments of my life you have to suspend disbelief because i will tell you about being it my mid-20s. remember verify said? [laughter]
6:15 pm
i am sneaking down the back stairs from the new york herald tribune rye was sequestered in the women's department the only place we could write in the '60s did take the longest walk of my life into the testosterones own role the men wearing ties could work and to pitch a story to the man that was in charge of journalism.6 i could get fired my boss woman would kill me if she space was taking my story to another petit was incubating york magazine inside pages of the herald tribune at the time. to write about beauty and baking we can show what the
6:16 pm
news room looks like. are you with me? there you are.e then wrote about the serious issues but why can a girl?n my first exposure to those who become my mentor was his voice.ce what do you mean? and my wife is opening on broadway. this man knows everybody.i i had 38 seconds to get it out. where did you come from? the estrogens don't? , and. what you have for me? i got my voice.
6:17 pm
a story about guys who have beautiful girls to sit on their beach blanket to attract other girls in in the half of the wing parties. did you go to a specimen dealing party? >> yes. they rejected me. [laughter] great for go right did as is seen just like you told ite to me we will call it flypaper people right journalism as a sea?ee up until then it was who what when whereby but this e beginning of the new journalism and klay was staring me to take the leap.wa but not right away., one year later launching yorke magazine i could not go
6:18 pm
at the four seasons. i had a fourth floor walk up with a two dash year-old child a and a single mother as a result of divorce so i didn't go to parties that the four seasons but that might i see a black limousine down below and a man steps out and i get aro call from i looked out from the ukrainian seamstress. man if it's a man is coming up. okay?b and it calms klay. he says why weren't you at the four seasons tonight? hav i said i don't have a baby sitter or a down.n he says what you know, about politics? my father is a country club and politics is biting at the dinner table.
6:19 pm
>> great thank you will though bobby. bobby kennedy cover hist wa campaign. me? i have never written a political story. >> now is the time to start.n even today' -- leave hidden to days. don't write a lot of little stories nobody will remember them grab onto the of big idea. they don't know though why. the best advice i ever had so i went off to cover kennedy my younger sister would stay with my child. she was the of the generation and was caughtn up in the speed and i got her
6:20 pm
out of that issue was willing to stay with my child when i had to travel so we could both make it. on the campaign the senator taking a yo-yo trip no correspondence wanted to go so i had a chance to get on the plane. to face a hostile crowd i swear with a raccoon or opossum one each shoulder the set i have been waiting two hours to tell you i will shoot somebody before icnkenn nazi like you in the white house so he would walk up with no protection and try to link aged a friendlyou debatet .
6:21 pm
about gun-control you can imagine. now back on the plane i hear would you like to sit up here?h i was sitting next to the senator it had been years since kennedy was assassinated by bobby bonds was still wearing his clothes.ache then as we approachedld portland we could not see another plane was headedt straight at us then it dropsof it in the middle of the drops kennedy said i knew bacardie bu was desperate but not thata desperate. [laughter] that gave me insight aboutu kennedy the dnc and so much death he was a fatalist and
6:22 pm
kept right on a daring and then two nights later his own life was ended it makes you stop and think about how far we have come today.e with the title of my book --o let's get off that slide. it is sad. i have even been known to have panic attacks ahead to be willing to fail to do things i have never done before to follow bobbycs kennedy and then i found out i could write about the character and i came to
6:23 pm
understand character is what was yesterday and will ber tomorrow talking about george h. w. bush heard that story and actually peggy spoke about ronald reagan and how people said't mrs. optimism that actually was rather pessimistic. confidence gave people a sense of optimism he believed in himself and ouran systemd . when i try to overcome my fears so i developed a habit.f
6:24 pm
if you read about me in the positive reviews i hope those appealed the ones that you read, you may thinknk she's sales right through up my career almost ended before it began for? twenty-eight was blindsided by force by husband was unfaithful in to save my self-respect and had to leave the marriage and i wasw left with a two 1/2 year-old daughter through i really had to protect. as a single mother i feltu myself struggling just to make ake living to balance between building a career. , i could not bear to leave my child with the babysitters i could afford so i had to give up buying. dream job to say could i
6:25 pm
afford a career as a free-lancef writer?m i was terrified. i knew if i did that a spark of creativity would be self doubt so i walked in and i wrote my first book, a novel it failed but to be aazin contributing editor to more than one magazine that his allies failed for word you may find a hard to of magic and for me to put on hot pants and hooker votes -- boots with an officer to act as mywe pimp that i could write about a violent period a prostitution in new york than to make a movie.urn
6:26 pm
you probably think it was brash to follow clinton into though ladies room at a conference when we were bothhe speaking but she let her hair down in 1994 and said i don't know what to do maya blamed for everything per car she was. -- she was precocious also is committed to was going through menopause even first ladies have menopause but at that time it was still taboo mothers did not even talk to daughters so she thanked mege for writing the silent oeate passage. after that i followed her for trinity fair over the next ted years and wrote the autobiography called ovaries choice for korea still fascinated by her. would you ever dare to step
6:27 pm
out of your comfort zone to discover something about yourself for the world?but pretend i am 32 i insist that klay said read to northern ireland and he says what does that have to do with new york? it is a story about themen whitman the emitter in jail -- of men are in jail their issue date british soldiers. he said the care fall. but we were living together events of pieta secondary motive. [laughter] j. gary 20, 1972. bloody sunday that happenedpene so fast they could not believe it i was just walking down the hill from a
6:28 pm
peaceful rights march singing and the neighbors getting to the barricades to meet the soldiers we go through the rituals to throw the of teargas we bring those back to safety and everybody drops back to the central square a lovely sunday afternoon but ibut notice there is a ring of tanks so i called one dash to call up the al a tour staircase's standing next to a young boy and i am asking him a question how did the paratroopers fired tear gas canisters so far? all of a sudden a bullet flies into his face. it is a bloody mess he drops
6:29 pm
at by feet i am trying to see how i could fix it begins up until then ic thought it could be fixed but i didn't have time because then there was cross fire and a man shouts get down. crossfire. all these people are piling on is we are like a caterpillar to inch up the steps to get into somebody's house. i was going to chop - - until jumped out until at bullet passed in front of my nose and hit a brick wallt then i had to push what we were taken into safety. . . finally it was over, i went down and the ira commander came over and apologized for confiscating my film.
6:30 pm
i said but that i'm not giving up my tape recorder. was it running the whole time, we will use it and they and be used as later in court. he directed me afterwards the pay phone and i called clay the one person i thought would be able to save me from my peers. how is the story coming? thirteen people were just slaughtered here. hold on a minute i'm watching it on cbs news now he's exiting in new york perfectly safe. he said they they were calling it bloody sunday. outlook you don't have to be in the front line just stay wi look, sweetheart, you don't have to be in the front lines, stay with the women, stay safe. i could have killed him, but how would he know what was really happening. he could not make my fear go away, no one can at your first confrontation with mortality in a powerful idea took hold. no one is with me. no one can keep me safe.
6:31 pm
there is no one who will never leave me alone. well, back home it took me six months before the trauma caught up with me and some intruder shook me by the psyche and shouted take stock, what about the part of you that once a second child any real marriage and before i could think about that, the intruder would ask, well, what about the side of you that wants to contribute to the world. what have you done, just magazine articles. half of your life has already been spent to be confronted for the first time by the arithmetic of life was quite terrifying. it happens to all of us at some point. it was rather early for me, what i would call a premature midlife kyle-- crisis, but we didn't have those terms at that time so when i went over the transcripts of that interview that i was working about on a couple crises i was focusing on the women and men between their mid- 30s and
6:32 pm
40s and i was reading evidence of disequilibrium, discontents, a feeling of time running out, urgency, but numb of them had had an outdoor exterior, like mine. it was coming from inside and some of them made leaps of creativity in that transition and some wondered if they were going crazy. that trigger seemed to be always the first awareness of one's mortality. that was-- i began to see there were other turning points in adult life. some of which are protectable. going through a passage requires living through a period of disequilibrium while you change yourself, so i began writing this book and it took me three years and when i delivered the manuscripts to publishers he raised the question i have been avoiding for months, we have to know the title.
6:33 pm
so, i closed my eyes in this word popped into my mind and i said, passages. he said, no, they will think it means excerpts and i said not when they read the book and i had to fight for that title right to the end and i'm glad i did because it entered into the language and gave us a way to explain something that is common to all of us. well, 1984, i finally dared to mary clay and people always said what took you so long coming 17 years, a 17 year long one night stand. [laughter] >> i tried to explain and i say well, it was because, i mean, you have to read the book to find out. i had to write the book to find out. but, clay and i took a prenuptial trip to asia and we were sitting on the veranda in bangkok adjoin the leisure to watch the flowers and barges
6:34 pm
drifting down when i noticed-- clay noticed i looked sad. well, my daughter was going off to college that following really never had a home family life altogether. so, late-- clay looked up and said maybe there is a child for you here. what? i never considered adoption much less foreign adoption, but clay told me about orphaned cambodian children who were stuck in refugee camps in thailand that escape the genocide, and could not go back because of the vietnamese communist now held their country in the reagan administration had shut down the pipeline to america. so, within an hour i said to clay, we have to go to that refugee camp. on our last romantic day and i said well, you started it. we took a bus, five hours to the border because we couldn't see
6:35 pm
children because there didn't kidnappings, so back educate i called the editor of the "new york times" magazine and is that i would like to do a story on the refugees that america forgot. he said cambodia is an expensive trip and i said i will pay half. i think we need to do this story. well, there i met a young girl after i have my journalist hat on now i met six different children from different backgrounds of the last one had to cancel and i was asked if i would entertain this other young girl. i had seen her, seen someone's eyes darting behind the bamboo fences as i went through the camp and there she was. her hair was freshly washed with a flower. she carried herself in such a way it was clear she had not surrendered to the identity of refugee. so, we sat down and our eyes locked and never took our eyes off each other and i asked her
6:36 pm
absurd questions that no one had time to ask you refugee. i said, did you ever know a happy time and are whole demeanor changed and she began talking about the lovely whitewashed houses with her little brother and sister that she would take care of her and her mother who would teach her chinese because she was half chinese and her father would go to work on his motorcycle. then, we were off and away and halfway through i had to ask her what happened to her parents. tears came to the edge of her eyes and she put her head down so we would not see her tears and i and the interpreter were just massaging her back and weeping ourselves and she composed herself and looked up again and continued the interview and by the end of the interview i was in love with that child. as we left the hut, i was trying
6:37 pm
to reach out to her to find out her name, but all of a sudden i was surrounded by adults with letters desperate to have me take them back to the us embassy knowing that the commander of the tight camp would just burn them and i kept trying to call to her to say what's your name. mom. mom? that was the nickname given to her and it just means little girl so they would not know she was from an educated family. well, i got back to new york and wrote her a letter to mom and had no idea if it got there and she wrote me a letter saying she would like to come to the united states and she did not know i got it and nine months later almost to the day coming in from running and i push my answering machine and there was a message. mom arriving jfk tomorrow night 8:30 p.m. like the stork was coming into my life. so, i piled my sister and a photographer into my little volkswagen and the former
6:38 pm
ambassador to cambodia, we rushed to the airport and i said i have to bring her a gift, so i stop at a chinese restaurant to go in and get her rice. of the ambassador said cambodians hate chinese rice. [laughter] >> first mistake. get to the airport and this little girl comes off, 12 years old, tiny limbs holding a plastic bag with her worldly possessions and at the bottom of this plastic suitcase with my letter and it awful depth. so, we linked arms and began walking out and our strides exactly matched and i knew we were going to make it. within three months, mom, i put an h in her name so we wouldn't have the same name. she was dictating to meet in english stories for her seventh grade creative writing class and
6:39 pm
went on to wellesley. so, everything began to come together after she came into my life clay and i got married, moved into his apartment. moral, my other daughter, both my bridesmaids and that same year team tina asked me to write for "vanity fair". i wrote about starting with gary hart's and al gore and both presidents bush and president clinton, president carter all the way up to obama, but my biggest thrill was to write about prime minister margaret thatcher. it can imagine that i wasn't thrilled with her as the person who used the british army to put the lid on irish catholics, but she was also such a daring leader and i wanted to know what her secret was.
6:40 pm
she looked 20 years younger than when she first took office and now she was in her 10th year, the apex of her role and she looked younger than ever. i found out she surrounded herself with star boys. they all looked like 1930s american matinee idols and some of them told me, we find mrs. teague sexually attractive in a rather pocketed way. [laughter] >> what? margaret thatcher sexy? soviet press called her that iron lady and i discovered she relied on a mysterious indian woman who called herself madame. some of her clients were pamela harriman, a couple of women in the royal family and i had to take on a false persona to gain access to her inner sanctum and she directed me to climb a stepstool to the top of her bathtub, electrical bathtub.
6:41 pm
she is at one and manipulating the ions and i'm standing there shivering with fear. i had gone to great lengths to get a story, but i'm thinking maybe electrocution is going a little too far. but, i allow myself to be tarballs for the next hour and i learn about the romantic attraction between margaret thatcher and mcalpine gorbachev and i was able to interview her after three interviews around her and she says, in fact she was the first western leader to spot gorbachev as a radically different kind of soviet and is likely to be the next premier-- he was only provincial party boss and she set a path the night with him ignoring their food, drawing back vodkas and whiskeys and maggie had already
6:42 pm
given her heart to ronnie, our american president, but misha, she told-- told me was a great communicative and said i found it so easy to discuss the debate with kubicek in a animated way, and neither of us clean an inch. , chop insisted that russians were european, and thatcher arrived-- thatcher argued you will never be accepted by europe until you let the iron curtain. over chop asked her to explain how she let go of her colonies and still maintain the status of world power and thatcher knew then she had her hooks into him and she announced to the world unlike mr. gorbachev. we can do business together and they did. she was able to back to ronald reagan, ronnie and tell him that gorbachev was prepared to let go of eastern europe peacefully and that was what allowed reagan to
6:43 pm
go to the berlin wall and say, mr. gorbachev, terror-- tear down that while. so, it was actually margaret thatcher who became the countless between the men who ran the two superpowers and the result was no less than the end of the cold war. finally, mrs. thatcher's bath-- it was announced on the floor of the house of commons, she was called the iron lady. i will stop there. [applause].
6:44 pm
>> good morning. it is nice to be here in miami with the book fair poor so many of you. its amazing program, an impressive program that you can be proud of. whatever else it does in getting books in people's hands, communicating ideas to people, it is changing the national image of miami, and of that is something you can be very proud of. [applause]. >> our family lived for some years in miami and one of our grandchildren was born here, so it's a special pleasure to come back especially to connect with books and books and the enterprise that has grown so exponentially. this is an exciting program to be with. let me tell you a bit about my
6:45 pm
new book and i think the place to start would be with the title. "nine essential things i've learned about life" y9? i don't know. it just sounded right. and didn't want to write another 10 best title. eight sounded too few and 11 sounded too many, so i chose nine. what do these nine ideas have in common? they represent aspects of people's spiritual and personal lives for which the rules changed while my back was turned. i entered school in 1955 at the age of 20, having grown up in an atmosphere, a religious atmosphere that i would describe as command and obey. religion, it was true for jews, it was true for christian, religion consisted of this is what god wants you to do, to be a good person you do it period, and a conversation.
6:46 pm
the clergyman's job is to tell you what you're supposed to do. went there for five years and my professors held onto that same attitude p read it was not their fault, several of them were born in the 19th century and came out and let into the army as a chaplain for two years or a system of command and obey was not exactly unknown. then i went into my first conversation and i said, this is what you have to do this sabbath and they said that's interesting, i'll think about it. [laughter] >> i discovered the essential truth of being a clergyman, rabbi or minister in the late 20th and early 21st century was that the religious agenda will be set, not by traditions answers, but but i can't burkitt's questions. my sermons, my teachings would be meaningless unless they were cast as an answer to a question that people were living with.
6:47 pm
one of the primary questions that people brought to me, one my wife and i were forced to confront early in her marriage was, why does life treat some people unfairly. our story if you read my previous books, we have a child whom we love desperately who was born with an incurable disease, one of the rarest in the world that. he looks strange for the entire 14 years of his life and he died the day after his 14th birthday. when people would ask us, how do you as a man of god accept that this could happen to your family, to your child, i was stumped for a while and then the answer came up was that god did not send this affliction. god is sending us the strength to deal with this affliction.
6:48 pm
someone said to my wife caught-- and me on new year's day 1963, before this year is out, you will have a child with the following problems and this is what it will mean to your life and this is what it will need your marriage and this is what it will mean to your bama, can you handle it, i assure you in 1963 my wife and i would have said please don't test as. that is more than anyone should be asked to bear, but as happens to so many people as i would guess has a happen to everyone of you at one point or another in your lives, aaron came into our life without our permission and from some source, which i can only identify as the spirit of god, we found within ourselves strengths we do not have, strength we do not think we were capable of to be able to raise him and love him and ultimately lose him and grieve for him. that's where i learned that enduring truth that has been the
6:49 pm
cornerstone of my faith and my activity, god does not send the problem, god sends the strength to cope with the problem we got a call that there had been a death in the congregation, a young man, a young husband and father a dropdead suddenly. i went down to the house to try to bring comfort to the widow and she said to me in tears, rabbi, why would god do this to such a good person. i thought i will try to explain it to her and i give her my theological answer and it does not help. she is still crying and still crying, why is god doing this to us and and and or that when a person in her situation says why did god let this happen, but is not a theological question. that is a cry of pain and the response that woman needed was not a theological answer about
6:50 pm
the nature of god, she needed a hug. when i understood that and i hugged her and i sat with her and i held her hand, that was the answer. the answer to why bad things happen to good people is not his -- about god. the answer is to assure people that they have not been rejected by sitting with them, drying their tears, holding their hand. that is the answer to the question of where is god. you remember several years ago there was this great egg psychological experiment in hospitals. they assembled a cohort of several thousand postoperative patients, divided them into three groups in one group was paid-- prayed for and they knew what. one group was prayed for in they were not told and one group was not prayed for him and wanted to see if there would be a difference. no difference at all. they all recovered at the same rate and cnn called me to interview me about that and said
6:51 pm
doesn't that prove that prayer doesn't make any difference that i separate-- that does not prove a thing. god's purpose is not to make sick people healthy. that's a doctor's purpose. god's purpose is to make us sick people brave and i have found god does a really good job of that. some now and people come to me in their group, and their affliction and they say, where's god, i don't give them a theological answer. i write books about that and they couldn't read it when their minds are clear. i say when your best friend comes and sit with you even though it hurts them to see you in pain. when people come and bring you meals and holger hansa dry your tears when people ask you how are you doing any really want you to tell them how you are doing, those are not fun things
6:52 pm
to do, but god motivates people to do that. god does not send the affliction, he sends the strength to deal with the affliction. what else did i find was going on in the world that my religious upbringing did not prepare me for? i look about in the miami audience and i suspect many of you were where i was in life are not pastor, i'm just 80 years old, so if you remember what stuck in 1969, it was a spectator for you. i suspect very few of you were there. the seine at the time was if you could remember woodstock you probably were not there. [laughter] >> i was 34 years old, a little too married in a two family bound in a little too clergy bound to go there and it wasn't my kind of retreat, anyway. woodstock was the responsible generation to the mess that our country was in a 1969.
6:53 pm
what represented, i think, was a rebellion against the garden of eden. joni mitchell, the songwriter has a beautiful song called woodstock. i try to get permission to quote in my book and the people who handle her affairs wrote back and say, you put one line of that poem in your book and we will confiscate every copy, so i decided not to risk it. but, her palm, woodstock, she describes i describe it-- i saw pure gentle soul one day and asked them where you are going and he said in going to the garden to set myself free. in the poll him, woodstock, the garden refers to the garden where all of this was going on, but to me the garden could have been the garden been. i think and i have a whole chapter on this, i think we have misunderstood the story of
6:54 pm
genesis chapter three, the garden been. we have misunderstood it for 2000 years. i read that story and i don't find a message of original sin. i don't find a story in which eve is the villain. that is a hellenistic ideas. in the second century, the birth of christianity in first and second century, judaism superseding the judaism of the tour, one of the themes of hellenism, accommodation of roman might in greek philosophy was the unfaithfulness of women. hellenists believe women are untrustworthy. think of homer's odyssey. for homer, her odyssey is dressed to try to get home from the trojan war. think of the iliad, two mighty nations go to war with each other because helen of troy
6:55 pm
isn't capable of remaining faithful to her husband. this was the greek idea of women. that's not a jewish idea. that's not a biblical idea. the vocal women are strong characters. this is rachel, queen esther, very him and the sister of moses, the heroines of the brook, but we haven't read those greek ideas back into genesis chapter three and it made even the villain of the story. i think the story of genesis three is the story of the first human being. what is the key to it? the key to it is the name of the fruit. go back and check this out. i have a whole new reading of genesis three. what is the name of the fruit? it's not the fruit you are not supposed to eat. is the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad. even acquires that knowledge, shares it with her husband and
6:56 pm
they are different from all the other animals because they now possess the single the fining traits of a human being. and what is that single defining trait? to understand that some things are wrong. no other living creature can understand that. your pet dog can understand there are some things he will be punished for. animals understand there are some things that won't work out, but the idea of morally wrong, that only makes sense to a human being. that is what our ancestors gained. what happens right after they eat the fruit? go back and reread jenness-- genesis chapter three, preferably with my commentary. they realized they are naked and they are embarrassed. the first 100 times i read it was well, of course anyone
6:57 pm
standing out doors with no close on would be embarrassed and then something occurred to me. they are the only people in the world. they are the only people-- there is no one there to see them. is like being embarrassed when you take a shower. [laughter] >> where they embarrassed? not because they have no close on. because they realize their subject to judgment. that is the defining characteristic of the human being, to understand that there are some things that are wrong and some things that are right and necessary. got a whole chapter here about the nature of god as i have come to understand god. that god is not an old man who lives in the sky. i remember a 15-year old boy who came to me early on in my tenure as a rabbi and said to me, rabbi, i cannot believe in god anymore.
6:58 pm
by now i have learned not to argue with 15-year old boys like that. not to tell him he is wrong, but to say to him, tell me about the god you don't believe in and he said, there are things i really really wanted and i prayed so hard for them and i told god all of the good things i have done and i promised god all of the things i intend to do if he would give me this and i never got it. how can i believe in god. i said to him, this god you believe and who does not answer your prayers, he doesn't happen to live at the north pole, does he? [laughter] >> because, you make god sound a lot like santa claus. dear santa, i have been a good boy or girl in this is what i want could you please send it to me. no, god is there, first of all to give you a lot of things that
6:59 pm
you did not earn, like being alive, like having parents who love you, like having a mind that works in a soul that feels, like finding things you can do when you are good at like being able to connect with other people. those are human traits and we should feel blessed that we have them. god is there so that when bad things happen to you, he will renew your spirit and you can go out and do the things that you intended to do. some years back i was commissioned by the conservative judaism to write a commentary on the torah. .. the committee to the extent of the conservatism and at the first meeting was the committee of three men and women and one of the women and i said i don't know if i can do that. i am not going to write a
7:00 pm
sentence like in this passage god tells us that that is god's will god does the following that's not english. as if you want us to sign had to sign off on this. he said it can't be done. it turns out it can be just work a little bit harder at it. the god i believe in and that i embodied and find is a god is both male and female. on some pages he is a father god chastising, warning, punishing, withholding and in some pages he is dot and another god god and a some cases got his mother god, forgiving and nourishing, creating life. and god embraces all the good things, the useful things in the world. i raise the question, is it ever permissible to be angry at god? i tell a true story, happens
7:01 pm
tohappened to a family that lives not very far from where we are today. the jewish camp and clayton, georgia where our grandchildren would spend their summers draws a lot of campers from florida. summers. when some of the oldest boys bunk -- they were taken white water rafting is the always did. teenagers need to have a little bit danger to survive. if you don't give them something challenging to do they will find it for themselves and get him a wealth of trouble. in the societies this was the coming-of-age ritual to go out and kill the beast were live on the land for yourself. the american equivalent is high school football.
7:02 pm
>> i will tell you about the whitewater rafting. nothing bad ever happened. they were excited, they were scared. this state, one of the nicest boys in the oldest boys bunk got up to help another camper that was a little scared stepping into the water and unexpectedly strong currents swept them away and they couldn't get him loose and he drowned. the director of the campus mini from other business to get to visit called and said we are having a crisis, can you come down and talk to the campers lax they are in shock. i went down and found out that this terrible incident had cost them their faith in god. and i said okay. i am here to help you come up with an idea of god you can believe in even when things like this happen to somebody you know. i asked them to take other
7:03 pm
bibles and turned to the first chapter of the book of deuteronomy where moses gets angry at god. the 5000 times in my life at least i figured him he's got a hard life by getting cranky, old people are like that. and then i heard a lecture by a wonderful angle of british jewish scholar by the name if you've ever had an opportunity to hear or read something she wrote, she has been on the brilliant. ..
7:04 pm
you shall love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your might, with all your soul. and the professor said that, when the israelites did not feel permission to get angry at god, they could not love god with all their hearts. their love for god would be halfhearted. the wife who is afraid to say to her husband that he does some things that really annoy her, she can't love him wholeheartedly. sheet is withholding part of herself. truelove is a love that knows how to express disappointment and anger, and overcome it with
7:05 pm
the strength of love. and this is what moses wants the israelites to feel towards god, and this is what i want you to feel toward god. if things happen in the world that wound you, that you don't deserve, instead of letting it cost your faith in god, find god in your ability to overcome that. find god in the willingness of so many people to come and dry your tears and hold your hands. i've got a check and a book about forgiveness. i recommend it to you. i will not take the time now, but that essentially forgiveness is not the way of letting go your anger at the person who hurt you. it's not to his benefit. it's cleansing yourself of anger that is just poisoning you. it's poison you and your the only one who suffered from it, but that's a longer discussion. i want to conclude with the last page in my book. this is mike 13th book.
7:06 pm
as i mentioned i'm 80 years old. i don't know if i'm ever going to write another book. if i feel the need if i get the idea i will sit down and start writing. if i don't, i will be happy with this as my final word. on the last page of this book because i thought this might be the last thing i will ever write, i wrote something different from anything i've ever written before. i call it a low blood or to a world that made or may not deserve it. and i hope when you read my book you'll spent a moment lingering over this and if you're moved, to write a similar letter to the world based on your own life experiences even if you're never going to see it in print. i would recommend it. it's a very therapeutic exercise. here's what it sounds like. the world, we been through a lot together over the past eight decades, you and i. marriages, births, deaths, fulfillment and disappointment,
7:07 pm
war and peace, good times and hard times. there were days when you are more generous to me that i could possibly have deserved. and there were days when you cheated me out of things i felt i was entitled to. there were days when you looked so achingly beautiful that i could hardly believe you were mine, and days when you broke my heart and reduced me to tears. but with it all, i choose to love you, world. i love you what you deserve it or not, and how does one measure that? i love you in part because you were the only world i have. i love you because i like who i am better when i do. but mostly i love you because lovely new makes it easier for me to be grateful for today and hopeful about tomorrow. love does that. faithfully yours, harold kushner.
7:08 pm
thank you very much a. [applause] >> that was truly amazing. i don't know if we have time for questions. we do, okay. anyone have a question? questions? we do have one lady. >> i don't have a question. is this on? i just have a comment for rabbi kushner, that when my little girl died of brain cancer in 1986, her name was alexa come and she was seven and a half years old. and i heard a lot of things from
7:09 pm
people and read a lot of things, and nothing made sense to me. in fact, many other things that i read anger to me and made the pain deeper and more intense, until i read your book. and your book was the beginning of my healing and being able to help other people through child loss. i never thought i would have the opportunity to thank you for helping me put my life together, and i'm very grateful to thank you. [applause] >> thank you to i'm sorry we shared that experience, but it's profoundly moving to me that i was able to help you. i do hear that quite a bit and it never fails to move me. i firmly believe this is what i was puttin put on earth to do. i do not believe that god sent
7:10 pm
it in our lives so i would change my theology and write a book that would help people. if i ever believed that i would stop believing in god. it's not worth the human life. i believe that when my wife and i joined the long, long list of paris have suffered that way, god showed me how to redeem the worthwhile the of belief and faith, and i tried to share that with all the rest of you. so thanks very much for the compliment. [applause] >> thank you both for coming. bullfighter lectures reminded me of christopher hitchens autobiography, page 22 the complete he was in his early '20s when he had an encounter with prime minister thatcher, and he made a comment that was sexual in nature, and his version of the event was that
7:11 pm
she winked at him and said you're a very naughty boy and you need to be spanked. thatcher said to hitchens after he made a somewhat sexual comment about her, maybe, maybe saying something that he thought, just like the men in the early '30s that she worked with, that she had a sexual aura about her. he said something similar and his version of what took place was that she winked at him and said that he is a knotty boy and he needs to be spanked. that's in his autobiography. i brought them up because he reminded me both, all a bit of both of your lectures reminded me about this story. he of course was a literary journalist before he became known for his militant, atheism. and he believed that rod is a
7:12 pm
fictional character and that as such, the bible, the torah, et cetera, ought to be categorized as literature. i'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. but also, with rabbi kushner, he later found out later in life that he was actually jewish with a name like christopher hitchens. his mother was quote-unquote a closeted jewish woman. and for him, or two of the four horsemen of the apocalypse are jewish, militant atheist. so i'm wondering what is it in what's taking place in perhaps their upbringing or the religious experience that's causing quite a few of the leaders of the atheist movements to be jewish? [laughter] >> added jewish community center
7:13 pm
in hartford, connecticut, i took full advantage of being the homecourt. [laughter] spirit he's a bright guy and i respect him and i respect the integrity of what he believes. he certainly is not taking these positions to be popular come except within a very small circle where he lives, or lived. but what i said to them, before he got sick or would've been more kinder to them if i'd known. i said, you know, there's so many really bright people i need to whom i would like to say, what would your marriage be like if you and your wife related to each other based on what you knew about sex when you were 12? what would your financial situation be like if you handled your money based on what you about investing when you were 12? so what is it when it comes to some of the most profound questions about life, about integrity, about purpose, about forgiveness, why then are so many bright people content with
7:14 pm
what they learned before they were 12 years old and never had to learn anything beyond that? i respect him and respect the integrity what he said. the religion, christopher, the religion you were rejecting is a caricature of religion. i would like to sit with you for an hour and offer you the kind of faith that i believe in that i think you would find is not persuasive, you know, god has got a long stretch of a couple thousand years. i think he could manage. if not persuasive at least geeky to respect people who take religion seriously. >> yes. i think, i knew christopher hitchens because he was at the world "vanity fair" what i was there and my husband and i entertained in a moment of the people when we lived in california. and christopher hitchens was a cruncher again. that's what he did.
7:15 pm
that's the way approach the world. he was always against -- a contrary can. i take exception that he wasn't writing to be provocative. i think he was writing to be provocative. and i wasn't happy with his challenging, you know, sister teresa. but in any case, i wanted to go to one of the things that i loved about your book, rabbi kushner, which is your interpretation of god, of genesis, your we interpretation of genesis, talking about the early christian interpreters understood the garden, even adams relationship that god originally created a double creature, a double creature who created them, man and woman. you actually quoted as being one of the interpretations. that's the way i've always thought of it. i always thought of mother god. that the gods were so jealous of
7:16 pm
this double creature that they split it in half and that's why most of us go through much of our lives looking for our missing piece. and i've always loved that view come and i found my missing piece. you did, too. unit 55 years with yours. i-25 years with my but 17 years on the one night stand. [laughter] spent unconvinced that the original -- the difference is, by the way, if you studied plato's symposium in college, that myth, the greek myth is found that that the gods are jealous of the siamese hybrid, the conjoined twins i think is the conventional language now, and split in half. the difference is what i love about the genesis of interpretation, this is an old story but such a profound idea. the purpose of splitting them is so that the mail have would find a female have and they would
7:17 pm
make up a whole one being, the idea to join with another person makes you complete. i love that idea. by the way, part of that, one of the implications of that, you realize human beings are as far as i know the only living creatures that when they made, made face-to-face. because only with human beings does it matter who you are coupling with. your dog doesn't care who she is meeting with. [laughter] animals out in the wild don't know each other before they made. only for human beings do we recognize each other as soul to soul, and not only male anatomy two female anatomy. >> thank you. we have to end on that note. [applause] i'd like to thank our authors. let's give him another round of
7:18 pm
applause. [applause] and thank you very much to the women. the office will be signing their book across the hall from the elevator right on this floor. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] >> and booktv -- the campus o several hours of live programming ahead. you will hear from poet laureate, a couple of:
7:19 pm
entities as well. the next author you will see talking about his most recent book thrown under the omnibus. right now we are joined by author luther campbell. here is the book, the book of luke. what and where is liberty city? mr. campbell, what and where is liberty center speak with liberty center is probably about 10 minutes away from here. on 58th and 10th avenue where i was raised at. 62nd, martin the king boulevard. >> what is it? >> what is it? it's a historical black neighborhood. like a pop in my book. it's a neighborhood in which black folks are mere when we
7:20 pm
first moved here, when we first came your everybody lived in overtown and we eventually into struggling into liberty city where i-95 was cut right through the african-american community. so my dad, like a partner in the book was one of the first persons to purchase a home there. they didn't know he was a black man when he came, showed a. it obligate a deposit at the end of day when the sun shall provide we didn't know we were selling to a black guy. he eventually ended up moving into one of the first guys to move in to the inner city spent a deposit went from $52,500 overnight? >> exactly, exactly. >> what is trying to? >> two live crew is a group that eventually got into, do i start out dj early on a micro. i was immobile dj around here in
7:21 pm
miami and the guys came down just every other band that was struggling, were not getting paid royalties. so we said look, we want to do songs, where we will get a. i said i'll help you. i just want you to help me out because i want you to do a song that i created, edited a song -- remember that song? it was a great dance. eventually i went from that point doing an album and -- >> rap music? >> yes. first hip-hop song done in the south. and from there we started and greater hip-hop in the south. >> what is relationship between two live crew and the supreme court? >> two live crew and the supreme court. two live crew ended up getting in the supreme court in my case
7:22 pm
between -- it was something i think i do happen. was destined to happen because hip-hop at that period of time was under attack by you name it, and will, governor martinez in the state of georgia, my friend, judge gonzales, federal judge in broward county. you name it, everybody was after hip-hop at the time. >> what -- was at a first time in the case in the supreme court speak with yes. it was a parody case originally. it was to cases that talk about in the book. one obviously the one that i went to the supreme court, i think the most, the case that my lawyer overturned and the fourth district court of appeals. no, not the fourth district, the court of appeals where i was the authenticity case -- obscenity
7:23 pm
case. judge gonzales originally said that the music was obscene and went to go back and get it overturned because the music that you write out they would've been told different. spin at one point you write in your book, try not that you were worth about $100 million. >> yes. >> was the money, did it come easy? >> well, did the money come easy? not really. it was tough. it was tough. just like biggie smalls says more money, more problems. the more money i got, the more problems i got. i tried to higher good people, good tax attorneys, attorneys, general counsel, have built my corporation. but when you read in the book most of those people, those were people i did put him and he stole me, in my opinion. so it was company was difficult to make money but it was hard to
7:24 pm
keep the money. >> was your work as part of two live crew, was a graphic? >> my work, my work was not graphic i think the work the other members could have been considered as graphic but i think they are right, to their artistic doubts as well as free speech but when you listen to record and to listen to the lyrics that i wrote it was totally different. but i was stupid to take responsibility everything that's put out and given up to the general public spent from your book, "the book of luke" at the end of the day there's one simple reflect hip-hop historians and journalists don't give me the credit i can do. it's because of uncle luke. who was uncle luke? >> uncle luke, my mom and dad raised luther campbell. she raise all the but of the four brothers, all these guys pretty much rocket scientists.
7:25 pm
navy pilot, comptroller of major plants. me, you know, i was a young guy, the baby of the family. would read and heard all those guys complain about money that they need for college or whether they were in the armed services and felt like they're being mistreated because they were black. particularly my third oldest brother, when he was in the navy. i don't think he ever got any leave because he was trying to be a father. i ended up dj'g, becoming uncle luke. uncle luke became cummins originally luke skywalker then george lucas sued me. i was dj luke skywalker. now i look out for my community.
7:26 pm
i try and do the right thing for everybody. >> so was uncle luke a stage persona in a sense of? >> yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. luke, you have luke campbell, luke, and uncle luke. so luke on stage was a guy that gave the people what they wanted. if you listen to record, it was our responsibility to go and give people what they want, other than going into a concert or situation and toning it down at times, a particular time. and other records as more secure but pushed back, we pushed back and the records got a little more graphic. then we wanted to become but we are in this thing called fighting for free speech spent the fight for two live crew
7:27 pm
speaks blessed lyri literature e was never really about the lyrics. it'd been about the principle of fighting for the right to do the same thing white artist did without legal harassment and censorship. >> when i look at it, again, i only operate in myself. i look at artists like lee were still at, and esther, you name it, these guys, then you looked at people like andrew dice clay. those guys already on record, i'll really a philly with major record labels. they were not getting their records take it off the shelf. so i look down from the standpoint of saying i'm a hip-hop artist can't i own my own record company, i am an easy target for the government and i just said look, if of god to take all my irony -- my money i earn to buy for free speech for hip-hop then i will do that.
7:28 pm
>> what are you doing today? >> there's movies and helping my wife out with nfl agency and restaurants. i'm just happy doing, helping out with the committee. >> how did you get involved in being a defense coordinator for a miami high school? >> my passion has always been football. i ended up going to miami beach high playing football. i always said when my career dies down that i will go back to my youth and help out. i started coaching and ended up coaching. now got some great players in the nfl, whether it's kerry williams, dante friedman is going to be up with the redskins, and you know, duke
7:29 pm
johnson, we've got quite a few kids in the lead male. but the most important one is the one that came out of my program is the city commission of one of most important areas, which is this area as well. i'm happy to find all of them speaking let's bring it all back to liberty city, your career, the trajectory, what you went through. was pure with liberty city now? >> my roll with liberty city is to try, you know, to stay it and just everything i possibly can to help the people who do not have a voice. whawhen i look at politics in liberty city and miami in general, other than our black elected officials, our own black special interest groups that don't have an interest of the african-american people here in south florida. my job is to stay here and fight, fight for them, fight for
7:30 pm
the school, fight for jobs, you know, the unemployment rate is horrible. every day is a challenge of taking their property and putting condoms on their property every day. that's one of the reasons i'm happy i did move to hollywood when others doing movies and happy i did move to new york. very, very successful in the music industry and stay here and fight for my people. >> you talking about with the fact he ran for mayor at one point. >> you. >> how did you do speak what i did do. i came in fourth place. i came in first place with all the living voters. i came in fourth place with all the dead voters. and the living people i came in first place but the dead people i came in second.
7:31 pm
>> you got 11% of the vote overall. you also talk about how you look at it as one miami. has that anyway and achieve? >> it's still a struggle because, from the outside looking in, the people of miami want one miami. there's not a day that goes by that semi-latin friends or jewish friends, you name it, came to be and see what can we do to help these communities ask what we do to help these schools? not a day that goes by when you see folks. doethere's much more to politics that are controlled by the special interest groups. those are the ones who try to great is a diversion and the separation of our town. we have some great people here in miami and the people, they want one miami and i think that's going to be my slogan,
7:32 pm
one miami. >> in your book, "the book of luke," you talk about the fact that the explicit lyrics labeled that's put on, that was put on a lot of albums and cds, you are partially responsible but it was a put out into the white kids started buying rap music explicit rap music it is okay you say when black kids reminded. >> you. just like i say, we've been going on in the book i talk about it in detail because i want people to know what i was going through, figure out why i was going through all of this controversy. why is the government and vice president and tipper gore and everybody was coming after me. i went outside to start thinking about about, okay, hip-hop has been around. you know, rock 'n roll is being phased out a little bit. a lot of white kids in this
7:33 pm
community. that's when the controversy came. we ended up on tipper gore's list, al gore's wife, the top 10 bad guys. so at the time i just figured that's what it was really all about. it was all about white kids navigating the music. ..
7:34 pm
explicitly directs inside here in the book. the book of luke. luther campbell is the author. booktv live coverage continues. we are going back into the hall which is one of the larger holes on the campus of miami-dade, and humorous and political writer is being introduced and after a little bit later we will have a cold in opportunity call in opportunity and you can find the full schedule on >> i hope you are all enjoying your holidays in hell are at the very least your holidays in heck. after driving like crazy to get here i'm not here to speak eight mr. o'rourke. that wouldn't be modern manners.
7:35 pm
after all this isn't a politics of war. by the way the session should end around lunchtime so after we are here you can go ahead and eat the rich. for those of you that don't recognize the titles i just spewed, you should look them up and read them. you won't be disappointed and you will both laugh and think at the same time. as someone who leaned on the era it is an honor to be here and no one had to threaten to shoot a dog to get me to come. it's my pleasure to introduce pj o'rourke and his publisher and editor for over 30 years the president and publisher. gentlemen, the stage is yours. good morning. thanks for coming great to see
7:36 pm
you all. we were backstage and remember when we were here for the first year or something and said i think that was just you on your own. we have known each other for 38 years. my memory of the first meeting was at some restaurant near the department you lived on mir the tunnel. much is lost in the fog 38 years ago. >> we have done 16 books together and morgan is both my publisher and my editor and authors do not stick with the
7:37 pm
same publisher or editor anymore anymore than one or two books in most cases because the industry is fluid. >> we are very 19th century literary relationships symbiotically relationships that's been through enormous benefit. my agent who wasn't much use anyway retired and somebody introduced me to another prospective agent and i told him about the relationship and he said he will never hear this from an agent we don't need an agent. we've got this relationship i cannot possibly improve upon i will just get in the way. the person i was going to cheat with that you don't want to do that. this doesn't happen very often in any kind of relationship that alone publishing.
7:38 pm
but morgan had been in new york for ten minutes and we met within a few weeks you had convinced me to do the book. >> you did a spoof of etiquette about intoxicating substances for rolling stone and we are sitting on a lame on the upper east side in new york the writers and journalists hung out and you are trying out some of your jobs from the rolling stone at the time and i said we started to talk about how we've had a collection of etiquette books and from that i said why don't we do a whole spoof of the etiquette. >> it wasn't really the spoof of an etiquette book it was for a period of time of which we still live where there simply are no
7:39 pm
manners. it's a pickup that emily post that he will see nothing in there exists any more so we decided we would write an etiquette book for a really rude age. so we were ahead of the curve on this -- some point during the evening elayne was a wonderful. many of you may know about the rest of many writers hang out a big woman with big drinks and i don't know how big the writers were they all thought they were big. every now and then she would say you should turn that into a book and i think she said that. >> we had already been planning to turn it into a book or a >> she would say that about anything. she would see woody allen scribbling on the map can and
7:40 pm
instead turn it into about eight or ten really boring movies. when you left the lampooning or freelancing t. want to talk about that? a >> this is the old literary work of. as i went up the food chain at the national lampoon of the national lampoon from the editor to managing editor to editor-in-chief my belt would keep getting higher. i would have the state and the fettuccine alfredo at about nine scotches. so when i started going at doing at the national lampoon is like 50 bucks, not even.
7:41 pm
it would be about 35 or 40 bucks. by the time i was editor-in-chief, it was pressing $200 for my dinner. i would come in and say i quit. she would say are you sure that is a good idea. what are you going to do now? i don't know, freelance work area i get my bill for dinner that night expected $45. and for a while when i wasn't doing very well coming elayne would, elayne would come up and there would be a bunch of people at the dinner table and she would say you collect the money for dinner tonight and pocket the money and put it on the tab. for while i was a while i was living on the float from elayne's and then when i finally made some money i would pay
7:42 pm
plane back that i was publishing as it was back in the day. >> what you also what you also told me when you told me the story as he sits now every publication party we ever have, we threw it at elayne, which we did until it closed. another friend of ours used to work for the "washington post" and the new york and when he was running low on funds he did the same thing and told me she let him run up a five figure bill that she would float him on and that's the old days. that's why all the writers were such great friends of hers. >> she helped. and then the other book that we came up with was when i was an editor when we did the first book that i signed up by this point you have to get over taken
7:43 pm
over the job at rolling stone and it was called the rational affairs editor i think that's what it was. >> hunter thompson had been the foreign correspondent for rolling stone but it was in his head. you didn't actually have to go anywhere. just things got really foreign. as hunter was exiting the rolling stone basically because they couldn't get him to write anything they brought me in as an actual foreign correspondent so i think my title was a rational affairs editor but i was the foreign affairs desk chief and also the only foreign correspondent for 15 years. it was the first book i signed
7:44 pm
up when i started my imprint with atlantic which then became the grove atlantic part of the story pj writes the copy that is as clean as any copyright ever worked with and i'm sure many of you out in the audience have read it and you are fans and it's not easy to write. i remember one time we had our number one best-seller parliament is a great thing as a publisher where you are seeing the book everywhere everywhere in iran number getting on an airplane and seeing that person over there and as i said at the back of the plane plane i did hear a would hear a laugh coming from over there in from over there.
7:45 pm
spread out from the different books we kept laughing out loud reading this stuff and my wife looked at me and said how can you still be laughing at this stuff and i said it's probably 15 sixteenths time i've read some of it but it's still really funny. but anyways we got the collection together. this is the first book i did and i remember he didn't need it so the kind of editorial relationship is more like
7:46 pm
suggesting a couple of the books we've come up with together may be shaping a little bit. but i remember the title of the republican party have we got to that the remember that at all blacks >> we never know what to call the book. >> we were calling it a rational affairs. the whole thing with 50 shades of gray. you're going to read this junk? everybody has their guilty pleasures. but read it?
7:47 pm
that's an extra problem. so in those days i despicably still up for any but for any reason i'm listening to one of those incredibly upbeat sort of howard stern type of morning disc jockey people when you have -- i don't know why i didn't turn it off but all you party reptiles out of their. >> then we eventually had to be reissued the book the great thing about our symbiotic relationship is still in print.
7:48 pm
don't let morgan give you he is a hell of a line editor it is fantastic. the whole idea of an author is to be an author to create things come to create a little world exactly the way you want it and then some of the comes in and pisses on it and you say i created this world exactly how i wanted it. so you created exactly the way you want it and we had been acting up ever since. scrubbing up for him and morgan manages to do that without ever seeming to do it. we have been together for so long that in certain ways we could read each other's minds
7:49 pm
about this stuff. what were we talking about? >> one of the stories was about how we did after the reptile we did highways in hell and that is what broke us out and about with the collected peace environment for the owner and editor and publisher of rolling stone basically subsidized up for us because -- he was getting great stuff out of it, too. we collected the rolling stone journalist of the foreign correspondents stuff and that was the sort of breakout book that moved you to a different level where we could feel that we were getting a big readership. >> weren't you back with something fundamental about business but just publishing that all businesses that everybody thinks businesses competitive. people think that writing and publishing his competitive area that is a whole lot more
7:50 pm
cooperation that goes into any kind of business success then there is cooperation that there is competition. which was cooperation. it's about finding out where everybody benefits. that's the sort of idea business situation. the customer benefits, the vendor benefits, the wholesaler benefits benefits, the manufacturer benefits. and morgan and i created that kind of situation between ourselves and when publishing, when magazine publishing was still a viable industry, we would triangulate this notably at rolling stone where he was paying me to do these places morgan couldn't possibly get me a book advance to go to places like mogadishu or go spend three months covering the gulf war or do any of the other -- i filed from 40 some different countries and it was expensive and he had
7:51 pm
the money from rolling stone to send beyond his assignments. which gave me the material to give to morgan to shape into a collective book about his experience was shaping required for each of these things like the overthrow of ferdinand marcos and the philippines and so on and how did that relate to the lebanese civil war and in return how did that relate to albania because all the peer mentor schemes that they had over the collapse. so, we created a situation where everybody benefited from this from the publisher and editor and the bookstores when they existed they benefited from this, too and so if anybody is like the audience is an inspiring writer or aspiring business or bookstore owner or anything come it's always nice to sit up in situations where
7:52 pm
mutual benefit. but what i was wondering is how we came up with the idea and i will tell you my memory of it is that you have returned 40. we had a dinner that went late at our friends. you had bought a sports car to separate your 40th birthday. and we were going to go race it on some roads that you do in staten island, and so we were on the staten island ferry fairly early in the morning for us in those days. and we started talking about -- i hadn't worked in washington in the summer of 1973 as a page in the house of representatives and it is interesting because it was watergate etc. but the interesting thing about it was you saw close-up these bozos that ran the government in the south i was like ever since i have been following it was like
7:53 pm
we should write it about how washington works works into the exhibit had exhibited the late 70s called the legislation and i was talking talking with us on the staten island ferry and then there was a book that had just been published by simon and schuster called a showdown by two wall street journal reporters about the reagan tax reform thing and i'm saying who could we get to do this come and they just published a book called the power game which was about the size of a telephone book that made for just about as engaging as a reading. and as we were thinking you look at the end at me and it's like a lightbulb goes off and he does well what about if i do it lacks and that was more or less where i think the parliament of the war came from. >> i think you're right. my memory is a little more foggy but possibly fumes from the a-alpha r-romeo. i have been doing this for an
7:54 pm
and correspondents stuff and i would continue to do that but there's a lot of wear and tear involved in being a foreign correspondent and i was a little tired of it and i thought you'd know it would be stamps here. >> we now return to our live program. >> another question? >> we were just talking about millionaire factory farmer guaranteed incomes, huge crop insurance subsidies all paying people not to grow things and all sorts of paying people for growing things they didn't grow and all it's just garbage. so, after spending months wrestling with this and develop self is that high and the explanation of the bill would fill this room, so i'm interviewing all sorts of people from interviewing like practically two thirds of the congressmen have farm constituencies.
7:55 pm
only 3% of americans live and work in agriculture anymore for the future political weight because of the way the districts are distributed. so going through all this stuff and i have this crazy friend total city slicker who's going to raise cattle so he buys a farm in new hampshire north texas. it's time for the cows to get in a family way. it's not done the way that i thought it would be done like a bowl bull and a cow and a heart-shaped skull beyond the tapes. now the way that you read cattle it's sort of like teenage pregnancy times ten. not only is the board around to help raise the the capital isn't even there to get a cow knocked up. instead what they get is a
7:56 pm
liquid hydrogen thermos bottle full of seamen and let's not even think about how they do that. okay. then there is this gigantic freezing cold hyperbaric sort of thing and what we do is you go out in the barn so i get a hold of the cows had and my buddy george is the crazy cattle raiser gets ahead and we get the farmer to come in and actually do the honors what he does his sticks a syringe into a personal private face of the cow and then what he does as he takes his arm squirt liquid dish soap and sticks it into an even more personal private part of the cow will be up to the elbow. now he does this not in order to get on the world wide web with a site. no. what he's doing as he is feeling through the cows and test them
7:57 pm
all. feeling that this incinerator syringe so that he can insert the tip of the syringe into the cows were on duty for -- womb. and this is what he really goes something to watch by glad to see this since i was at the other end i did not watch it. but i will never forget the look on the cows face. [laughter] and that is the look that i got on my face when i finish reading beyond this farm bill. the book that became a number one bestseller that changed
7:58 pm
their lives because at the time i had a print with the atlantic press and the whole story is too long but basically, my friend that owns the press one to two solid and he offered it to me happened to be in new hampshire staying with pj and i said to him what should we do, should we stay independent, should we buy this? and i i had the next book which also became the number one bestseller under contract i settle you need to do us just say we is just say we will keep that under contract with us and much to the chagrin of his agent he said not only will i keep that under contract i will sell you the next one beyond that for a dollar and that is a great standup friend he is to me so i went ahead and i took the risk enabled the atlantic monthly press with some other investors
7:59 pm
and my family and a couple friends and from that we created grove atlantic which is one of the few independent midsized companies because we are not a small press publisher hundred 20 a year and now about 202,500 in printed alongside a don't think there's a lot of authors that that would have been enough. >> it wasn't all hugs and love. i made a cultivated decision that this was really important to have independent booksellers and publishers. it gives a pretty good insight. the other thing is when we were working on the deal for the parliament but my agent insisted i go around and talk to other publishers and i don't remember what other publishers to talk to but i do remember the lunch i
8:00 pm
had with a woman editor at simon & schuster and she said i know, i know just how to do this book. you do 24 hours of washington. yoa you she said you wake up at six in the morning and you follow everything that happens in washington for one day. and i said, that's the dumbest stamp thing i've ever heard my entire life. who cares what happens in washington. usually this is washington, washington is like in organization that can wreck continents, including our own. a vastly complicated thing, sometimes beneficial, sometimes otherwise, often out of control. and she wants to do 24 hours of washington, the senator got up and jogged. i mean, get out of
8:01 pm
here. that is one of the things that maybe think know, morgan must survive. atlantic month we pressed has a thing that is absolutely must survive. will it did, and not only survive, it thrived thanks in large part to you pj. we have gone on, we have done lots of great stuff together. the last book we did was baby boom which is idea we could get together. the adam smith book was a lot of fun, all wonderful book that pj did. this was an idea of young man who started a company in 2000, the young man who ran that company said to me one day, have you ever sat added dinner party and pretended to read a book? now, we all have. >> oh no we all have. >> so he said why didn't we commission good writers and write about books we have all attempted to read. so we had pj to do wealth of nations by adam
8:02 pm
smith. >> know, i read the whole damn thing. all 1001 pages of it. and one pages of it. plus pretty much everything else adam smith ever wrote. i promise this book in six months, it was about three years before i delivered it. two and three for sears devoted to waiting my way through all of what adam smith wrote. incidentally, it's great. i recommend it. if you have a slow year. >> actually if you have a normal life i would suggest reading pj's 130 page book that really tells you the whole story. there's a great line and it that goes, when you set out to legislate buying and selling the first thing to be sought and sold as a legislatures. i thought that was a line from adam smith. it is pjs line. >> oh the insight.
8:03 pm
>> it has been a great partnership, they told us we should leave ten or 15 minutes for questioning. >> i just want everything. i'm working on a larger project but in the interim morgan and i and this is morgan's idea, have a small project. i hope his stay small. we are asking our selves very nonpartisan political question can't which is how did the u.s. federal government get so big? the thing is so big, i googled this and i googled several different sources, not just wikipedia. nobody really knows for sure, exactly how many government agencies there are. they don't know how many government agencies are. it is hard to count, you count this one twice or is that really happen agency, no one really has a count on how many there are. there are 400 and some, they think.
8:04 pm
like how did this happen? i think george washington started out with him, his horse, martha. [laughter] some kid from down the block, jefferson, whatever. how did it get -- i'm not sane it's good, nothing is back, i'm just wondering how it happened. also, in pursuit of that wondering does this happen and tend to happen with governments. from the initial research i have done it looks like yes it's an inevitable thing. governments stick around for any length of time they put on weight. [laughter] but what does that mean? i have not got that far yet. does that mean they sort of grind to a halt like a chinese empire do? does it mean about the pieces like the british empire did? or can it go along for a long time and everything is hunky-dory. so that's the next thing, that's an example of how we work
8:05 pm
together. now we have told you everything we know, but we will make up some other stuff if you have questions. >> i think there is a microphone they want you to use. if people want to use question. >> okay just to embarrass you further. >> simple question, do both or either of you vote to and if you do y, and if you don't why not? >> oh yeah, i vote. i i vote. i live in new hampshire, it's required by law. we all have to go to dixon's notch and be the first people -- yes i vote, and, and i vote for lease, worse. [laughter] >> yes, i vote and rarely, at least, worst of my party also. >> pj, what is your analysis of why secretary of state would have a private email server for all official business and then all of a sudden sudden have half a billion dollars in the nation
8:06 pm
to foundation she owns it. >> i was at daughter the same thing last night when i walked into a hotel. she had six electronic devices working at the same time. she had the ipod, the the ipad, the phone, the laptop, the tv on and some other device of which i know not the purpose. so all i can say is for a woman who is spot on my age, hillary clinton and i are exactly the same age, for good or for ill, she she is way more hip on the stuff than i am. whether that causes me to give her credit or give her blame, we'll have to wait until it is lease, worst time next year. >> did you know that condoleezza rice had the same set up when
8:07 pm
she was secretary of state? and others secretary of state's also had the same setups, private e-mail for government business question i. >> you are talking to a guy who still has problems with his rotary phone. [laughter] what is that you dial before you die a long distance number question is a one, is today, is it ten, i don't know. >> hey pj, how how did you go from a young left-leaning hippie to a republican party reptile libertarian? was there a cathartic moment or managerial experience over college? >> no, it was a state date to situation with a blip in the middle. i was born and raised republican. really, really republican. my grandmother was -- mike great-grandfather was county sheriff in illinois, brenda president mckinley, regular delicate, my grandmother started going to republican conventions when she was ten.
8:08 pm
i asked my grandmother once when isaac kidd, has been a smart but i was also was also puzzled, i say grandma what is the difference between republicans and democrats? my grandmother said democrats rent. [laughter] so i go off to college, i am walking down the first weekend to college, i walked down an alley and there are two bars in this alley. one bar is full of the fraternity and sorority type kids. the sorority girls are really cute, they have that sorority flip haircut, the skirts are above their needs, this is 1965. they fill out their sweaters very nicely, adorable looking girls. but i'm looking over there and i'm inking g, i'm not good-looking, non- athlete, that's going to be work over there. on the other side of the alley,
8:09 pm
there were of bunch of hippie kids. i didn't call them hippies yet but it was that type of thing. girls over there, equally cute with long iron hair, strumming on guitars, strumming on guitars, drinking beer out of the bottle. smoking unfiltered camels. i looked over there and i thought, all that they do it. i made in. [laughter] so i was on that side of the alley for the rest of the time i was in college. naturally besides the guitar, the smoking, the drinking, and the guitar playing, i picked up politics. so i came home from college and my grandmother goes pat, i'm worried about you. are you becoming a democrat? [laughter] grandma, grandma of course i'm not a democrat, lyndon johnson is a democrat crack, he's killing all those innocent
8:10 pm
vietcong, course i'm not a democrat, i'm a communist. >> my grandmother goes, we'll just as will just as long as you're not a democrat. [laughter] and i never have been. i have gone from republican, to communist, back to republican. the way i got back way got back to republican is very simple, got a job. i was middle 20s, i get a job. i get paid $150 per week and i get paid every two weeks. i am really looking for to that 300-dollar paycheck. i get the paycheck and i net out at like 168.25. on the state taxes, city taxes, income tax income tax and social security, union dues, healthcare -- all this stuff. i go, i'm a communist.
8:11 pm
and i finally get my first real job with the big s-uppercase-letter corporation, and i find out that we have communism already, they just are my pay. what's that about? i'm that about? i'm not rockefeller. size right back to republican. >> have you ever thought about writing about the outsourcing of government services to private companies that have made a lot of money for the opposite of large government has been this reaction of oh, let's privatize which has not worked so well with for the taxpayer. >> if i were writing parliament of wars again, and unfortunately the fundamental dynamics behind the book would make writing it again a task because i would have to be covering a lot of the same territory. one of the areas i would be covering would be just that. now, one, one thing that would be different from writing that book now was i wrote that book before the outsourcing of government. in theory, is this book more efficient quest question market
8:12 pm
may be, on the other hand, also a moral theory do we want things like -- i covered the lebanese civil war, i've seen privatize military forces, not a great idea. i believe isis is running some privatize prisons, also not a great idea idea as far as i'm concerned. that would be a subject, if i were to return to that subject, which frankly wore me out. >> if you're ever looking for some ideas come i think our governor knows a little bit about privatize healthcare. you might want to talk to him about that. [laughter] >> i want to thank you for your wonderful work at the national lampoon which i read religiously in college. >> read religiously is not the adverb you are looking for. >> it was a phenomenal publication back in the 70s. you have any thought about the decline in popularity since he left us from the national
8:13 pm
lampoon? >> national lampoon there is no cultural relationship with my leaving and the national lampoon declining. what happened was, the magazine and publishing and morgan can speak to this -- the whole thing pays crap, let's face it. look around us, we are are not investment bankers. the g5 does not await outside the miami-dade airport. the pay is lovely, always have been. it is lousy or than it once was but it has iceman laws he. national lampoon made a movie. i had nothing to do with it, animal house, it was in a norm of success and everybody who is at the national lampoon got offers to write movies. even writing a movie that fails, or a movie that never happens pays about 100 times more than writing a magazine article that does happen.
8:14 pm
so they all evaporated. even by the time they i left in 81 they were were running out the doors like rats leaving a sinking ship. >> thank you so much, i think our time is over. let's have a round of applause please [applause]. thank you so much to both of you. >> the autographing area is across from the elevator, thank you.
8:15 pm
[inaudible] [inaudible] not. [inaudible] [inaudible]
8:16 pm
[inaudible] [inaudible] >> you are watching live coverage of the miami book fair on book tv on c-span2. now p.j. o'rourke we just saw in the chapman hall, here on the campus of miami-dade, will be joining us later for a call inches you will have will have a chance to talk with him as well. in just one minute, msnbc's joy and reid will be joining us for a call inches. her new book is called fracture, brack obama, the clintons, and the racial divide. she will be here in just a minute on our call and set. here at miami-dade. coming up, we will have live
8:17 pm
coverage of the u.s. and former you as poets. that is later this afternoon, live coverage of leonard pitts and joy and reid talking about their books, also the presentation by animal-rights writers. that is tracy stewart and jean bauer. that is all coming up. you can fight off both schedule on book you can always follow us on twitter at book tv is our twitter handle, we send out schedule updates regularly on that handle. in just a minute we'll have live coverage with joy and reid and she will be taking your calls and we will be back live to miami in just a minute.
8:18 pm
[inaudible] [inaudible] >> host: book tv live in miami, on our call and set which is at the center of the festival here on the campus of miami-dade, joy and reid is our gas, fracture, brack, brack obama and the clintons and their racial the divide. what is the current relationship between the democrat party and african americans? is it a marriage made in heaven? a. >> guest: i think for a lot of african-americans it is not so much a marriage, it it is a perpetual dating scenario. you are out on dates but not
8:19 pm
being brought home to mom and dad. you still have a certain sense sense among african-americans that the democratic party knows its needs the african-american vote but does not necessarily highly value the african-american issues. you saw that plant with a black lives matter movement. you have a party that is one third nonwhite, enter into its primary race on prepared to address this movement with all three major candidates completely flubbing the issue on their first attempt. i think there is some misunderstanding. >> host: so what is the flub when people say all lives matter spent. >> guest: the thing with that is it's a confection with those opposed to a black lives matter. it was not meant as an expansion of black lives matter. it was meant as a rebuttal to it. was meant to demonize the movement as if black lives matter was saying only black
8:20 pm
lives matter instead of same black lives matter too. >> host: how would you describe president obama's relationship with african-american voters today, seven years in? spee2 he enjoys tremendous of respect and affection from black voters. they're tremendously proud of the achievement of having the first african-american president in office. they're defensive of him. even with disappointment under the radar. when it comes to if they will depend president obama against his enemies, whether his political enemies or any others whether it's on issues of race or policy, black voters are going to defend the president. they have turned out in huge numbers to reelect him. beneath the surface their family issues within the relationship but by and large he enjoys tremendous support. >> host: will the democratic nominee in 2016 enjoy that same
8:21 pm
affection? spee2 if the nominee fully embraces brack obama, yes. that is really going to be the big test. there is always. there's always a question whether the nominee of the democratic party will find someway to distance from the president on wethers form policy, domestic policy, economics, and how they'll pull that off. the pull that off. the question for black voters is not how to distant from brock obama but how to embrace them. that is the challenge for the democratic nominee. >> host: one of the issues you discuss at length and fracture is voting rights. from your book, for the time being and for the foreseeable future, particularly for african-americans, democrats are the only ballgame and with pressing issues of economic health disparities, with voting rights hanging in the balance, failure is not an option. >> guest: for african-americans the democratic party has long been the party of best resort. not necessarily the party where they felt fully whole and embrace. when african-americans
8:22 pm
essentially broke into the democratic party in the 1950s and 60s in large numbers, particularly in the south they were were breaking into a hostile party. a party that did not want them there, it was always like blockbusting when african-americans would move in and non-african americans would essentially move out. that happened in the democratic party in the south. you have black voters engage in with the particles it was the only game in town. there is no way to we'll put a call power south but to the democratic party. the republican party didn't function the south. so you have african-americans finding themselves in this party where during certain periods they had been in and out, and it with fdr, drifted in and out because of a lot of support for dwight eisenhower, there there is support for next then.
8:23 pm
by the time the barry goldwater nomination happened in the republican party, african-americans went all in with democrats. that does not mean they have voice but on one accord. >> host: we are going to continue our conversation with joy and reid talking about her new book fracture, brack obama, the clintons, and the racial divide but we want to get you involved. this is your opportunity to talk with an author, will put the numbers on the screen. 202 is a on the screen. 202 as they are called 748-8200 for the eastern's time zone. many other ways to get a hold of us. you can send a text message, this is not for phone calls, just text message, (202)717-968d include your city and first name so we can identify you that way. a few other ways, via social media you can make a comment on her facebook page on facebook tv or send us a tweet at book tv. there's a variety of ways to have a conversation with us and with joy and reid. mr., tell me if i'm reading this wrong but you are a little critical of the president when
8:24 pm
it comes to supporting voting rights, is that a fair assessment of what you write a fracture? >> guest: i would say there's criticism that came from the silver is community about his stance on voter id. there is a sense among many activists within the civil rights community that there is a lack of sense of urgency from the president on voter id when it first crapped out. in the 2010 election it was an opportunity for the white house to fully support and robustly oppose that kind of what republicans called voting reform. the white house to not do it. i think there's been a fair amount of criticism that the president has seem to have the attitude that if you want to vote badly enough you should be able to do it. while he opposes the ideas of voter id, he is not robustly actively campaigning against it. i think civil rights activists wanted him to use.
8:25 pm
>> host: when you look at the democratic hopefuls were president, where do they stand when it comes to some of these issues that you discuss and fractured. >> guest: it's interesting, will clinton succeeded in pushing the democratic party substantially to the right or to the center-right, under the obama year, the party has moved back very much to the left on a number of issues, criminal justice reform and undoing the legacy of bill clinton there. or. or gay rights and undoing up the legacy of the clinton area there. you see hillary hillary clinton embracing the idea of a universal voter registration at age 18. they're both pushing for reinvigoration of the voting rights act which was rebutted in the 2013 decision in the sip cream court. you are seeing the democratic nominee substantially pushing for broadening voting rights and voting access and putting your foot on the pedal on that. >> host: let's go back to 2008. from your book fracture, friend said to clintons took the attacks on african-americans who
8:26 pm
supported hillary personally and were angered that longtime african-american friends didn't feel free to stand by the preferred candidate without reaping retribution from within the black body politics, once it was clear obama's final. >> guest: i think the clintons were so taken aback by the support this relatively unknown young senator was getting from african-americans who had long been bill clinton space. they're taken aback by his electoral successes and by the substantial draining of their own african-american support. by the way, their comments were being received by african-americans, they were not prepared for. when you felt the for. when you felt the financial numbers of african-americans abandoning the clintons and going for barack obama i think the clintons had resentment. the other piece of that resentment was that clintons,
8:27 pm
particularly bill had long-standing relationships in the african-american community. whether it civil rights leaders, jesse jackson who have had a weird relationship with bill clinton. their friends in congress, many friends in congress, many who came to washington with bill clinton and 1992 a 1996. of course they supported hillary, they were her friends. but the reactions they got from african-americans once it was clear that brock obama could it was clear that barack obama could win was swift and furious. you have legendary figures like john lewis facing this huge backlash from african-americans for not supporting barack obama. the clintons resented that reaction to their african-american friends and supporters. >> host: when you started this book project where did you start? was your goal. >> guest: when i first started the book in 2013, i'm a history buff i wanted to write a history because we are sitting at the first of three jubilee years for the civil rights movement. 2013 was 50 years was 50 years on from the march on washington, 2014 was 50 years from the civil rights act, and 201550 years from the voting rights act.
8:28 pm
all of these heroic achievements of the civil rights movement in between. i wanted to write something that would mark that fifty-year. this incredible character that it represented for the democratic party which went from the rejection it's party to the party that produces the first black president. i think the broad sweep of american history would suggest that it might be more logical for republicans to be the first african-american president. based on abraham lincoln and other things the republican party represented, even in the 60s. you had this party which had a southern appendage that was so anti- black, so anti- expansion, so anti- integration it is remarkable that 50 years from that area, this is the period that has brack obama. >> host: tcn avenue where republicans can increase their african-american support? >> guest: it would really take a
8:29 pm
marked tonal shift. it is hard to see it happening in the next couple of election cycles. there. there are african-american and non-african american figures within the republican party over the decades we have had a real reach into the black community. i think they don't have very many now, colin powell certainly does. it is really difficult to imagine many other figures like him that have that region that tone. the tone of the republican party has become sharply nativist. it has become overlap well mainly white. it is hard to expand and nonwhite groups as long as the tone of the party feels negative to african-american voters. >> host: joette and reid is our guest, and augustine jordan you are first caller. >> caller: i am absolutely bowled over to get access to the line. misread, i admire you greatly. greatly. thank you so much for being there. i would like to something that is hopefully not too bitter.
8:30 pm
but i want to ask your opinion on the blatant display of violence toward black young men and women by the police forces in this country and a lot of the verbal that comes to the forefront in the production of several of the rub republican presidential candidates that are before us now, do you think that has, do you think it comes from this great sense of resentment that always existed? because mrf managing this country there is so much resentment from that that it manifest itself in other
8:31 pm
aspects of our culture? thank you. spee1 i think we have the idea, let's get, let's get an answer. >> guest: it's interesting, the republican research institute did a broad survey called the american valley survey and it talks specifically about some of the resentment and some of the reaction of particularly white working-class voters were very much aligned at this point with donald trump and that strain of the republican party. we find among those white voters is a high degree of support and trust in the police which is the opposite of african americans which have a high distrust and police. when one of these policing incidents happen you have two separate conversations happening. african-americans look at the issues as brutality, even murder. white americans see a one off, something that was not a normal occurrence but a
8:32 pm
one off, once in a one off, once in a bluemoon occurrence or a bad apple situation, or a situation where the deceased person or the african-american somehow triggered or is to blame for the situation. these opposite readings of police incidents are showing that you'll must have an immediate racial polarization in people's attitude towards what happened in their thoughts as to white occurred. i think we have such polarized attitudes toward everything even policing that it reduces that results. >> host: the police issue has been in the forefront of our national political discussion for the last year or two. it is not a new issue. we talked with luther campbell earlier today and if you remember back in the '90s there's a song, asked the police. there is a is a lot of trouble, shootings there too. why do you think it is increased up. >> guest: liberty city you can still see the scars of it if you go through the part of the town. there's been police related rights, going all the way back to the 1960s. in fact even all the midcentury rights has some spark that
8:33 pm
involved white police officer and a black citizen being harmed or killed. so it is not common at all, i think what has changed is that african-americans have been telling the story and feelings of brutality and disrespect for hundreds of years. no one has ever really believed it. in the sense with the video camera the cell phone, now african americans feel they can be believed. they can show evidence that these ongoing occurrences are real. i think you have african-americans who say you cannot push forward and get reform based on what they see as evidence that the stories are real. whereas for a lot of white americans again it is still seen as one off occurrences so there is some resistance. the the good news i think we are coming together as a country of a shared belief that something needs to be done and reforms are needed. that's an incremental step forward. >> host: here's the cover of the book, fracture it is called. isaiah in keyport, new jersey you are on. >> caller: good morning.
8:34 pm
good morning misread. hello? >> guest: hello. >> caller: first of all, i watch you from time to time on msnbc and we are very, very proud of you. you just keep up the good work. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: my comment is this, as a lack child of southern parents we were raised with the idea that the dred scott decision of 1850 that says a black man has no rights that a white man should feel compelled to respect his grown up in us and we have seen this time and time again. the problem with most white folks that i have had the privilege of meeting is not that they are bad, or not that they do not do things, they they do not really think this really happens. it does happen. it happens too often and my thing is this, you have to keep
8:35 pm
an open mind, all plaques aren't good and all rights are bad. you have to judge each individual and until you get to know them you cannot do that. blacks are are more giving in that way. whites are not. your comment please. >> guest: it will thank you very much. again i go back to every poll, talk about in the book the polling after these incidents like the trade on martin incident, like them michael brown incident, even after katrina, there is just a sharp divide between black and white in interpreting what happened in these incidents and who is to blame. who is who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.
8:36 pm
i think in part because white americans generally have good relationships and good interactions with police and positive ones. there is a lack of believe that these things are really systemic. there is a belief that if there is a police involved incident it is a one off, it is not a systemic issue. whereas african-americans have cysts financially negative interactions with police see each of incidents as sort of another brick in the wall. as long as these experiences are so divergent, people believe in what happened in establishing the facts of these cases and who is writing who is round makes it impossible to come together. >> host: tracy, columbus ohio, this is a tax. do you think african-americans are losing their influence in the democratic party? can you tell me there any african-american future candidates that could run for president of the united states? >> guest: the research that i did let me to believe that part of the reason you do not see the next level wave of democrats running is because the field in the latter ways will clear for hillary clinton. other candidates, elizabeth moore, and some of these that are up-and-coming really sit
8:37 pm
down for hillary clinton for her to have her opportunity. i do think there is so wave, of african-american candidates from donna edwards who is running for the united states senate in maryland, to camilla harris, she is running for the senate in california. you're finally starting to see a crop of democratic african-american and latino candidates that are coming up in this post obama away. it has been amazing and stunning it has not really happened up until now. the wave of nonwhite candidates that is happen on a national scale has been in the republican party not the democratic party. our african americans losing influence? i think what is wrong with the democratic party formula is that african-americans tend to wield congressional level influence and mayoral level influence. they have not been able to get to the level of statewide influence which puts you in that bullpen for president. there have only been eight african-american united states senators. that is shocking
8:38 pm
shocking for a party that is dependent on black voters. >> host: joe your book tv. >> caller: hi, i like like to say all my friends and my very good friends are asian and dominican. they are my wonderful black friends, very, very intelligent. i love them dearly. we all have the same in common. it is not about race but about religion. i see that our president never gives any -- what ever he talks about the opportunity to praise god he never has. he has always back down from that. i wonder if that he is not a christian like he says he is, or what is going on. is he he a muslim is that the reason he is free and muslim murderers and allowing these christians to be murdered?
8:39 pm
that's just just my question. i'm very worried for countries sake. >> host: joe, before you hang up give us a bit about yourself if you would, what is your background. >> caller: well, i'm a christian. i came from cuba after my dad was put in prison for 13 years for believing in freedom, for believing in christianity for believing good things. i feel that our country is being taken away from that. from the the liberties that our country was created on. and on our dollar bill is is in god we trust. we used to pray in school and now that is taken away. that is really scaring me because what happened to all of those things that were that our country was built on, in god we trust. what. what happened in god we trust? where is that. >> guest: there was a religious right that kind of thing. it's sort of ironic, the president has both been accused
8:40 pm
of being a secret closet muslim and also an errant christian. >> we are experiencing technical difficulties, if you would stay with us will take you had a look at another program going on. >> as much as i love our i think it is left our community be high. had clinton won in 2005 i think we -- so thank you very much for your time. >> thank you, i think a lot of african-american leaders that i spoke to did express a collective reticence to go after the president for some of these issues publicly. because the opposition to him was so much in at sometime seems hysterical you had some
8:41 pm
african-american leaders would call that he was not doing enough for the african-american community. really reluctant to criticize him in a substantial weight and feed into an aid and abet his attractors. again almost a hysterical opposition to erase them from history not just -- the interesting thing about bill clinton as he comes long time of the democrat party main project is to win back white working-class voters away from the republican party. pushing african-americans away is a big way to do that. pushing jesse jackson away is a symbolic way to do that. clinton's personal style pulls black people inches he pulled pulled african-americans and with the familiarity he had, the feeling is he show. quite frankly the friends that he had in the appointments he made, the visible friendships and visible relationships. he had a very ironic tenure as the first black president. >> host: are: with joy and read continues. if you cannot get through on the phone line we have a text line as well, just for texas, (202)717-9684.
8:42 pm
the next caller, we are laughing because the rain is coming here in miami. >> guest: is miami. >> host: carolyn in california. >> caller: hi there. misread, i love love your commentary on msnbc, my question is about the backlash of young african-american students at the university of missouri. the students have drawn fire because of accusations that there is an anti-first amendment underpinning to the demonstrations there. i wonder if you believe the students have hurt their cause by associating themselves with anti- first amendment views or if the media is looking at two issues? >> guest: that's a great question. there's been a debate of about campus going on for about 50 years about whether or not
8:43 pm
campus speech of migraine or young people are becoming anti-free speech and are closing themselves out from ideas that they are not comfortable with. you had comedians that do not want to play campuses anymore because students do not want to hear anything that may offend their ears. they don't even want to have debates over ideas. they want to wall themselves off from on popular speech. i think that's a new debate and it's not just about the students at missouri. they are being caught up in a larger abate particular lead be away by the right of campuses with anti- conservative bias in a conservative views are being written off of campus and locked away and outlawed on campus. i think the mazzuca case was different from that. it wasn't about. >> caller: speech, free speech does not. >> guest: if you go back to when barack obama was at harvard law
8:44 pm
i was there at the same time there is all of these campus protests over the lack of diversity in faculty, even in the african-american studies department. at the time time is headed by a white woman who is an expert in french literature. there these debates in which everyone was calling for this and that administrator to re-sign, that that happened but you did have the movement that brought people to the campus. the citizen citizen demands for change have been happening for a long time. it happened when it right gates to harvard and he would be arrested outside of his home, brock obama his friend and colleague could get in trouble for defending him. >> host: next call is chase in liberty, texas. go ahead and make your comment or ask your question. >> caller: hello? can you hear me? >> host: were listening, please go ahead. >> caller: i apologize. yes sir. my question is a cute can focus
8:45 pm
on the economics of what is your opinion of the democratic party and how it's going and numbers? i think as an american we don't need to be so thin-skinned and always be offended. this this whole industry being offended, were not producing anything, but a culture of constantly being offended. we have to focus on getting rid of derivatives. why anyone would let the clintons in their under larry summers, it is absolutely crazy. the future my opinion, it can be blight but we have to start producing. i'm talking large scale projects. my number one issue is water. if we don't focus on the issue of water in this country you can forget it. thank you. >> guest: there's a lot in that
8:46 pm
question. i think part of what the caller said that rings true for americans across the ideological spectrum is the fear that the country is losing its will to produce. its will will to be great in terms of manufacturing power, been able to produce good jobs that an average american without a college degree can live, work, and retire on and have a good life on. they can pass along a better life to your children then you have for yourself or your parents passed on to you. that animates most of the bernie sanders and trump voters who want to make the country what it was in the past. part of that is the information economy is upon us. the competition for wages and work is globally, not national. that error is gone. think a lot of americans are dealing with what that means.
8:47 pm
we are also more multicultural country. i think americans are dealing with what that means. if you go back and look at the insecurities of the really shrinking white working-class population, if you think about it during world war ii something like six and ten americans were white working-class voters. most workers were working-class. it it was very, to be college-educated. working class workers are shrinking and cultural influence, think there's a lot of fear there. these issues have not been offended, that is, that is not political correctness in a sense. i think it is probably felt about that same group of borders that they are boxed in, even rhetorically on what they can say, who they can be, what they're allowed to post on facebook. i think what your scene with a donald trump phenomena is the sense of wanting to free themselves from political correctness. for a minute african-americans that doesn't mean you can just call me whatever you want, or called mexican americans
8:48 pm
rapists. there's a fine line between removing political correctness means and just being offensive means. i think that is part of the problem. >> host: a few minutes left with our guest. her book is called fracture, brock obama, the clintons, and the racial divide. clintons, and the racial divide. specifically when it comes to hillary clinton. what is your relationship currently with the african-american community? no that's asking -- >> guest: on the one hand she is the best-known of the democratic candidates. one of the things i do write a lot about is the pragmatism of the black voter. they are voting not necessarily on emotion except with brock obama because he could actually win. with hillary clinton she has a tremendous and managed with black voters because they feel like they know her. she's a a parent her relationship with obama because she has repaired her relationship with him. now she needs to have the black americans want to have her, they
8:49 pm
she needs the black americans to turn out at 72% like they differ brock obama. she has the support, she needs the enthusiasm, she has the percentages, she needs the volume. >> host: if you been watching a program you notice we've gone off the air couple of times. that is because of the weather. as as joy has said it is miami. it was sunny here five minutes ago, it is now raining, nothing or storm where we are but the satellite had a little trouble. we. we're back on the air, we are live from miami, we are talking to sam in chicago. sam go go ahead with your question or comment for joy. >> caller: i want to tell you i do not have time to read your book but i had time to listen to it twice on audiotape. it is wonderful.
8:50 pm
i thank you so much for putting that on audiotape. i have passed it around, and what you may not know is you have a huge following here in chicago. we love you so much. you are so great, every time your tv we call one another and tell each other, joey is on tv. we'll pick up the phone and do it. thank you so much for putting it on audio tape otherwise i would've missed the whole thing. thank you. >> guest: thank you so much. that is very kind. how nice. >> host: did you enjoy the process of writing the book? spee2 writing was one of the most difficult things i've ever done. it was an incredible amount of work between the research, interviews, transcribing, organizing your thoughts, daunting. so is recording an audiobook because it's weird, you're reading back your word. it was a gratifying experience, i'm so proud of it and glad that it is done. >> host: you have been on an
8:51 pm
active book tour. >> guest: yes, i've been all over the country. up in chicago, north, north carolina, florida a few times, washington d.c., were getting around and adding more cities even as we speak. >> host: to enjoy that? spee2 i enjoy talking about the book, interacting with people. i was in north carolina not long ago doing a weeklong residency there. it was wonderful to interact with students and get their take on the very things i'm writing about. these are kids way too young who can remember this stuff. there are either infants when the clintons came in her didn't exist yet. just there takes on this and their black lives matter which is that there era. >> host: k and mullen, south carolina go ahead. >> caller: hello. hello. hello. >> host: k, go ahead for listening. >> caller: i love you.
8:52 pm
i love you at so much. you are so smart. every time i see you, i never miss your tv show, what when are you coming back to tv? >> guest: i am a national correspondent with msnbc so i'm on from time to time and primetime as a guest. >> caller: oh i want you back on your own. >> host: do you have anything else you would like to say? >> caller: yes, i would like to know where do you get all your knowledge from? she is so well. >> host: tell you what, joy tell tell us about yourself. before you became the author fracture, before you became an msnbc, what were you doing? >> guest: i grew up as a nerdy kid in denver colorado. i grew up in a household where my mother was a political junkie. she she came to this country in 1960 from british
8:53 pm
diana. she and my father met in iowa and then moved to new york and denver. we grew up in a household where we cared about news, politics. i can remember watching the first episode of "nightline" when i was in like six gray. i i was fascinated with a hostage crisis. i've had an fascination with middle east issues since then and have become a student of it. i grew up in interested in that. i was originally originally going to harbor is premed but weekly realized that was not a an idea. i took time off, went to new york and majored in film and documentary film. when i graduated i started off as business consulting as harvard kids do but wound up in news when i moved to south florida. i reinvented myself because my spanish is pretty good but not good enough to work in consulting i was doing in new york.
8:54 pm
so i took a job for $7.25 per hour for a news writer for a local station here. i move i move my way up to working for the nbc affiliate on the web team. i was on the website when that was getting started. i been lucky to have multiple careers. i worked on in tv news at the local level. i left tv news during the iraq war, in the process the way we're covering it, i worked on a campaign. got a lot of contacts and information there. i thought one day when i work from politics i have to work like david gergen. i worked on talk radio upon my way back to the news because they acquired the they hired me because i had a combination of news and web experience. that's how i wound up back at me a bc family. >> host: bonnie you are one of the last calls for joy in.
8:55 pm
>> caller: hi, i'm glad to talk to you. i want to mention that joe called then and he's very concerned about religion. we have separation of church and state in this country and it is very important. people should not be judging our politicians by their religion, we are free to have any religion we want. we are free from religion. so do not judge our president, do not judge any of the candidates by their religion, we have their religion, we have freedom of religion in this country. that's it. >> host: thank you bonnie. neil in michigan. >> caller: okay i would like to know why black people always have to refer to themselves as african-americans. i was born in america. i don't
8:56 pm
know anything about africa anymore then from books and television, and movies. i don't see whites don't go around saying their white frenchmen are white something, can't we just be black americans. >> guest: it's interesting, there's been this whole name change every generation with african-americans who are negro for a while. then became black during the black power movement. that became popular in the late sixties. african-american thing came along as african-americans and black people in in this country were looking for different ways to instill pride in our young people. this notion of identifying with someplace the way that irish americans do or the way i telling americans do. the notion of having a place in the world, think for african americans one of the big stories is not the placement of not having an origin story. not knowing where your particular people come from. i have friends that traveled
8:57 pm
from ghana and came back saying it's amazing. i see people that look like me, look, look like we could be related. they want to pick a are the african continent and knowing where they come from. i am am african-american, my father is african. i'm a first generation american with the african father. for africans, when my father was alive would talk about that issue he too would wonder what was this connection, there is so much distance between africa and where we are here. think what a lot of americans don't understand is that abject pain associated with the history of africans in america and is so substantial, so deep so all-encompassing that kind of pain at the past, and never really leaves most black people. when things happen like police brutality, when things happen like the disrespect shown to the first black president, it is so searing for african-americans.
8:58 pm
i think non-african americans don't understand and can't relate to it and don't understand why it is, but it is real, it is deep. it is a lot of ways deeper for black americans than black people anywhere else outside except maybe brazil. i think understanding that in getting to know one another culturally in this country is one of the keys of greater understanding. i hope we can do that. >> host: finally this text message comment for you, what is the black community's take on ben carson? spee2 zero dear. ben carson is a figure who, unlike most of the other black presidential candidates, including brock obama, including herman cain, who are virtual unknowns to most african-americans. are virtual unknowns to most african-americans. ben carson is very well known. anybody who is over the age of maybe 30 remembers when ben carson separated those conjoined twins. he was an icon and black households and muchly jackie robinson was an icon in the 1960s. i think there is a fair amount of disappointment. a sense sense of dispirited nest of how this figure who is considered a hero could also be the guy who made
8:59 pm
his name by disrespecting the first black president. i had 11 person i'm related to who respects been part carson and respects brock obama say he would not even publicly criticize bang carson because he did not want to do to him what carson had done to the president. i think there's a deep sensible bewilderment of how these two could be the same person. how they they could be coming from the same guy. i think ben carson occupies an odd and unique space for african americans, both known and suddenly unknown. >> .. called "fracture: barack obama, the clintons and the racial divide." here is the cover of the book. thank you for being on booktv. >> guest: thank you so much for having maine it's been great -- me, it's been great. >> host: and joy-ann reid will be doing a panel later live on booktv. and in just a minute now, p.j.
9:00 pm
o'rourke will be joining us from a call-in. in fact, he's standing right here under our tent because it's raining, and we didn't feel like leaving him out in the rain, so i hope that's okay with you. and so he'll be joining us here in just a minute for a call-in. in an effort to switch the guests out, we want to show you a little of mr. o'rourke's presentation earlier at the miami book fair that we covered live. here's p.j. o'rourke. after that, a live call-in. >> i remember the title of republican party reptile, how we go to that. do you remember that at all? >> well, we just didn't know what to call the book. >> well, we were calling it -- >> we were calling it irrational affairs, and that sounded like a sad novel or something. [laughter] and so you know, i wanted to call it punk republican, morgan said punk is over. i wanted to call it pants down republican, but that seemed sort of vaguely pornographic, and
9:01 pm
there weren't supposed to be any photographs in this. what's pornography without photographs? [laughter] i mean, actually, the whole thing was like 50 shades of grey. you're going to read this junk? [laughter] i mean, yeah, look at it, of course. [laughter] everybody has their guilty pleasures, but read it? of course, if you can't write, it's an extra problem. [laughter] so i'm listening to a.m. radio. in those days i was probably still up. but anyway, for some reason i'm listening to one of those incredibly upbeat sort of howard stern type morning disk jockey people who when you've got a -- i don't know why i didn't turn it off, but he's going, it's friday, is everybody out there, all you party reptiles out there. i go party reptile, republican party reptile, so i stole the title from some idiot morning dj who was giving me a headache. >> and you told it to me over
9:02 pm
the phone, and i said, yeah, we put eisenhower with a mohawk. >> his idea. >> we got one of those dot artists, and that was the first cover. >> then we eventually -- this is another great thing about our symbiotic relationship u is i think everybody i've written is still in print. >> absolutely. >> everything is still in print. one thing about staying with same publisher or building a relationship, you know, over the years, and don't let morgan kid you, he is a hell of a line editor. he's an absolutely fantastic line editor. authors hate to feel edited, because the whole idea of being an author is to be an author, to create a little world exactly the way you want it. and then somebody comes in and pisses on it, you know? [laughter] you go, wait a minute, i created this world exactly the way i wanted it, you know? so you feel sympathy for god,
9:03 pm
you know? he created this world exactly the way he wanted it, and we just have been acting up ever since, you know, screwing it up for him. [laughter] but morgan manages to do that without, like, ever, you know, seeming to do it, you know what i mean? and we've been together so long that in certain ways we can read each other's mind about this stuff. but what were we talking about? [laughter] >> that i was going to tell one of the stories that i next remember is about we did after republican party reptile, we did highways in hell, and that broke us out. i remember a winner who was the owner and publisher of "rolling stone" basically subsidized all these books for us -- >> yes. >> he was paying, but he was getting great stuff out of it too. so we collected the "rolling stone" journalism, the foreign
9:04 pm
correspondent stuff in holidays in hell, and that was the book that moved you to a different level where we could feel we were getting a big, big readership. >> which brings you back to something that's fundamental about business. people think business is competitive, and people think writing and publishing is competitive. there's a whole lot more cooperation that goes into any kind of business success than there is cooperation. -- than there is competition. much more cooperation. it's about finding out, creating a situation where everybody benefits. you know, that's sort of the ideal business situation. the customer benefits, you know, the vendor benefits, the wholesaler benefits, the manufacturer benefits. and morgan and i have created that kind of situation between ourselves. and when publishing, when magazine publishing was still a viable industry, we would triangulate this. notably with jan at "rolling stone" where jan was paying me to go to these places that
9:05 pm
morgan couldn't possibly give me a book advance to go to mogadishu, spend three months covering the gulf war or do any of the other, you know, i filed from 40 some different countries, none of them the nice ones. and it was expensive. and jan had the money from "rolling stone" to send me on these assignments which gave me the material to give to morgan to shape into a collected book about these experiences. and there was shaping required, too, because each of these experiences, each of these foreign things like the overthrow of ferdinand marcos in the philippines and so on, how did that relate to the lebanese civil war, in return how did that relate to, like, rioting in albania because all the pyramid schemes that they had over there had collapsed. so, you know, we created this situation where everybody benefited from this, i the writer benefited, morgan as editor and publisher, jan winter
9:06 pm
benefited from it and presumably the bookstores, when they existed, they benefited from this too, you know? >> host: and that was p.j. o'rourke from a little bit earlier talking about his most recent book "thrown under the omnibus: a reader." p.j. o'rourke, i'm trying to figure out what the omnibus is. is it this book? which is pretty hefty? [laughter] >> guest: i know. >> host: or is there a political meaning to that? >> guest: no, no, we were looking for some term for anthology, and we -- omnibus, and so then what do we call it, and i said how about thrown under the omnibus. it didn't really work until my friend pat olyphant, the cartoonist, he loved the idea for a coffer. i owe it all to pat. >> host: that's quite the cover there. you're driving the bus, it looks like. >> guest: yes. >> host: and who's in this picture? >> guest: well, who isn't, you
9:07 pm
know? [laughter] i think pat with his excellent ability to do caricature, has pretty much every current american politician. i see w., i see the president, i see nancy pelosi, and i see john boehner and who -- you know? they're all in there somewhere. >> host: well, speaking of omnibus, let's start with national politics and the fact that john boehner is no longer speaker of the house. >> guest: i know. that's sad. i liked, you know, tearful fellow smoker, you know, liked to play golf. he seemed to me to be the ideal of american politicians in many ways. didn't particularly stand for anything, and sometimes that's what's needed. [laughter] yeah. things have been -- but, you know, that didn't surprise me so much, because he had to have been worn out, the constant friction between the house and the senate and the presidency. but it's this presidential race that's amazing me. i mean, aye been covering this
9:08 pm
stuff -- i've been covering this stuff since 1972, my first political convention. i have never seen an odder field of candidates or an odder public response to an odder field of candidates. in my life. which is getting to be pretty long. >> host: so 1972 both conventions were held in this city. >> guest: they were. they were right here in miami. >> host: and you were writing for whom at that time? >> guest: underground papers in the east village in washington -- new york, excuse me. >> host: were you a lefty at the time? >> guest: i think i was just about over being a lefty. i remember coming to the democratic convention and, of course, mcgovern was the eventual candidate. and there were quite a few left-wing delegates. so i accidentally came to the wrong entrance. security in those days, pre-9/11, security was very casual. there was one off-duty miami cop. and i walked up to the
9:09 pm
delegates' entrance thinking it was the media entrance, and he said are you a delegate, and i was pretty hippie looking in those days, and i said, no, i'm a member of the press. he said i didn't think you looked dirty enough to be a delegate. [laughter] and i thought, i don't think mcgovern's going to win here. [laughter] we can sign off on that one. >> host: why do you think no political convention's been held in miami since 1972? >> guest: possibly it was the behavior of me and my friends. well, actually, i think that they outgrew that convention hall, and i don't know, you know? i don't know what the reasoning -- i assume that it's very, like, international soccer or the olympics. i assume it's a deeply corrupt process by which they pick the cities that they're in. but i'm just assuming. i don't have any special knowledge on that. >> host: from "thrown under the omnibus: a reader," i have only one firm belief about the american political system, and that is this: god is a
9:10 pm
republican, and santa claus a democrat. >> guest: i wrote that a lodge time ago, and -- a long time ago and i still stand by it. santa claus is such a better deal than god in every respect. i mean, god -- well, usually just to start with he's portrayed as a middle-aged white guy, and we all know, like, how out of it that is just to begin with. very hard to get into god's country club. he has lots of rules and regulations. he's very strict. he's, he can be kind of unforgiving. i mean, there's forgiveness in there, but you really have to work for it. santa claus, like, he may know who's naughty and who's nice, but he never does anything about i. he's kind to animals, he always shows up for charity eventings. he's just a great guy, lovable old elf. santa claus is a better deal than god in every respect except there is no santa claus. >> host: p.j. o'rourke is our guest, and he will be with us now for about 40 minutes to take
9:11 pm
your calls. we're going to put the phone numbers up on the screen, we want to hear from you. 202-748-8200 if you live in the east and central time zones, 748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific. you can also send a text message to mr. o'rourke, this is not a phone call message, this is a text message. 202-717-9684 is the text if you want to send a text message to p.j. o'rourke. you did mention that you have enjoyed this political season more than any other. what is particularly -- what has particularly caught your eye? >> guest: well, i don't know if "enjoyed" is exactly the right word. i am a political human orist -- humorist, and, you know, they really failed to organize the weather for this. [laughter] so i'm a political humorist, it's hard to be funnier than
9:12 pm
this campaign. i'm a political commentator, and i can't get a word in edgewise with trump around. so i'm full of indignation about this campaign and not only that, i'm unemployed. [laughter] i'm out of work. >> host: america is the world's policeman, you write. all right, a big, dumb flat foot in the middle of one of the things cops dread the most, a domestic disturbance. >> guest: yeah. well, don't we have -- again, i wrote that years ago, and it's one of those things that, you know, there's so many things i've written that i wish i could say, boy, was i stupid, boy, was i wrong, you know? unfortunately, when you're making fun of human frailty and human nastiness and human evil, you're rarely wrong. and here we are back on the beat, flat feet and, you know? and, you know, not knowing what to do one more time, and it's
9:13 pm
domestic disturbance, he said/she said, you know? they're really angry, and they're even more angry at you than they are at each other. >> host: let's take some calls. >> guest: let's do it. >> host: let's start up with theda up in anchorage, alaska. thanks for holding, you are on with p.j. o'rourke. >> caller: thanks very much. >> guest: i'm not hearing her. now i'm hearing her -- >> host: theda, we're going to listen to you now. >> caller: i just wanted to say that i believe that every candidate -- and, actually, each person who's thinking about accepting an appointment to a government position -- should give some thought about what they might do if they're sincerely-held religious beliefs come in conflict with their official duties. and i recommend an organization called interfaith alliance which has a little thing called five
9:14 pm
questions for candidates. there are a lot of people on the campaign trail. i don't really care for what i'm hearing from them about what they might do if their religious beliefs and their official duties in the constitution are in conflict. >> guest: i think you're absolutely right. in fact, i would take it, i would take it further than that. i would say i want to ask the candidates what will happen when, you know, what will you do when circumstances and what you feel you have to do to get elected or to be in office conflict with any basic principles which means that i'm also asking the question do you have any basic principles? i'm not seeing enormous evidence of basic principles, religious let alone ordinary moral and ethical out of this pack of candidates. >> host: jack is calling in from
9:15 pm
providence, rhode island. jack, please go ahead with your question or comment for p.j. o'rourke. >> caller: yes, hi, good afternoon first of all. >> guest: hi, jack. >> caller: hi. happy thanksgiving to the both of you. we're going to have a good one here. the question i have -- >> guest: good. >> caller: -- basically is this. i'm going to put you on the spot a little bit, mr. o'rourke. >> guest: all right. sure. >> caller: years ago gail sheehy wrote a book, i think it's been pretty much taken off the shelves, about the man who changed the world. she was, like, praising mikhail gorbachev. this was in the late '80s, early '90s. >> guest: yes, yes. >> caller: and making him, like, into jesus christ pretty much. now -- >> guest: yeah. >> caller: you know, that's one short, and it was proven that ronald reagan basically cleaned his clock, in particular in reykjavik, you know? ronald reagan cleaned his clock.
9:16 pm
and one other point i want to make. i'll never forget this, i saw this in a book, i can't recall which one, then i'm going to hang up. ronald reagan talked about his negotiating skills, and he said he learned his negotiating skills when he was the head of the screen actors' guild when he was negotiating actors' contracts with the studio heads, and then he said -- >> guest: yeah. >> caller: -- that experience he took with gorbachev was a snap, okay? so i want to talk to you -- [laughter] sheehy, i want to talk to you about sheehy, i want to hear your comments on that and what i just said. have a good one. >> host: all right, jack, in providence, rhode island. p.j. o'rourke. >> guest: okay. yeah, i do think that reagan and thatcher were largely responsible for the end of the cold war and their firmness and their sense of purpose and their negotiating skills. but i think we do owe a debt to gorbachev. gorbachev, who later wrote a
9:17 pm
very long book, did you read that? it was way boring and really long. nonetheless, it was gorbachev among the senior soviet officials who was the one who said, look, you know, the emperor we've got running around here in so then what do we call, and i said how about thrown undergorbachev finally realizeds system is not working, there has to be a better way. i don't know what exactly gorbachev, i think, envisioned some sort of communist with a human face or something resembling european socialism but more so. i don't know exactly what he wanted, but he was the one that finally said, look, this just isn't working. like everybody, all the senior soviet officials are almost dead. the one interesting thing in his book was where he talks about sitting in with the soviet leadership and, like, half of them are falling asleep, the other half have alzheimer's, most of them were deaf. he's way down at the end of the table, he can't hear what's going on.
9:18 pm
[laughter] is this a system? >> host: p.j. o'rourke, this is a text message from craig in sacramento. >> guest: okay. >> host: p.j. o'rourke has been the only funny republican aye ever seen. >> guest: on purpose. there are plenty of funny republicans out there, i can tell you, i come from a whole family of them. i do it on purpose. i can't be the only one. i may be the only one who's admitting he's doing it on purpose. >> host: are you a humorless lot over in the republican party? >> guest: i would say when humor was being distributed, i'm not sure republicans got their fair share of it. they got a lot of indignation, although these days it seems like everybody got a lot of indignation. >> host: speaking of indignation and tolerance and political correctness, what's your take what's going on on the college campuses these days? >> guest: i don't like it one bit. i was part of the '60s generation, and we were acting up on campus much worse than people are acting up on campus
9:19 pm
today. but looking back on it with the cold, mature eye of adulthood, we were all jerks. and somebody should have told us to stick a sock in it and go get a job, you know? and looking at the little jerks today, i am inclined to say much the same thing, you know? it's like, you know, it's -- speaking power, speaking truth to power, speaking truth to power, it's really easy when power can't do anything to you, you know? i can sit right here and speak truth to power about kim jung-il, and he's helpless. i'm in miami, he's in pyongyang. and when you're on college campus these days where students sort of rule and you can get out there and scream and yell about microaggressions and also how the climbing wall isn't high enough and there's not enough variety at the sushi bar in your calf fear ya, it's just -- knock it off.
9:20 pm
>> host: and craig goes on to say loved your satire since the '80s. keep going on wait, wait, don't tell me. what is that? >> guest: wait, wait, don't tell me is a quiz show from npr, and i'm one of the rotating cast of panelists, and i just did it -- i think it's out right now. we taped it on thursday night, and it comes out on saturday or sunday according to your local npr station. peter sagal, chase auditorium, and we tape it live in front of about 500 people. it's a lot of fun. >> host: next call for p.j. o'rourke whose most recent book is called "thrown under the omnibus" is brian in ft. lauderdale. >> guest: oh, right up the road. >> host: hi, brian. >> caller: hey! >> guest: hi, brian. >> caller: first of all, gotta say it's a thrill to make air with the great.j. o'rourke. i've been a -- the great p.j. o'rourke. i've been a fan of yours -- >> guest: well, thank you.
9:21 pm
>> caller: in one sitting i read about half of omnibus just yesterday, and i didn't see one name mentioned -- >> guest: wow. >> caller: -- that is pretty important to me. i know you've got some feelings about him, in fact, i think you did some satire about him back at national lampoon. i'm a dylanologist, and i've got to tell you nobody had a better handle than national lampoon on the satirical vulnerabilities of america's greatest artistic treasure. what are the two, in your view, maybe even three funniest moments in dylan's career? >> guest: oh, boy. that -- i think when he got booed off the stage for doing, at the newport folk festival. how anything could be worse than folk music is absolutely beyond me, and yet bob dylan managed to produce something on that stage that the audience at least thought was worse than folk music, and that is a low bar.
9:22 pm
a high bar, i should say. i had that backwards. that is a very high bar. and so that would be my moment. when you've done something that's worse than folk music, you've really done something. >> host: victor, cartersville, georgia. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: hey, how you doing? my question is the republicans don't seem to have any humor, and most particularly the tea party. in my humble opinion -- >> guest: yeah. >> caller: -- i think the worst thing that ever happened is the tea party. and i would like your comments on the tea party. >> guest: well, i don't think it's the worst thing that ever happened, but it is a little bit like there's an element of naivete, that naive and earnest,
9:23 pm
angry adolescent attitude where what happened, basically, with tea party members is i think they read the constitution, and they said, hey, wait a minute, you know? we have a book of rules in this country, and a lot of people are violating those rules, and this is, like, an angry call for more flags on the nfl football field or being really, really upset that tom brady's equipment manager or crew messed with the inflation of the football. it just, you know, it's not that i particularly think tea party people are so i don't wrong, itt where have you people been for the past, like, 200 and some years, you know? think there's some violations of the rules, do you think there's a little bit of cheating? do you think a few people don't live up to the letter of the constitution? be doh. >> host: .j. to roarke, we
9:24 pm
talked to peggy noonan yesterday -- >> guest: oh, she's great. >> host: -- about her book which is a reader as well. >> guest: yes. >> host: and she divided the column into, oh, i really liked that, maybe and, essentially, why did i write that? [laughter] how did you choose which of your writings -- >> guest: well, my publisher and editor, morgan, from grove atlantic, he and i have been together forever. we're married. [laughter] and it was, he signed me up for my first book when he was a junior publisher at dell, he went to simon & schuster, signed me up for my second, he had an imprint at atlantic, he eventually took it over, so we've done all the books together. so what morgan and i did was sit down -- and peggy is a much clearer thinker than i am. i love everything i ever wrote. [laughter] and morgan, of course, he's my editor, and he helped me write it all, so morgan loves everything i ever wrote. so we made our list of favorite things, and we put the two lists together, we gave it to the managing editor, and he said,
9:25 pm
oh, great, you've got a 7,500-page book here. so we pent the next six months killing our darlings. oh, i loved you, you were such a sweet little innocent be piece, damn. until we got it down to printable size, and i personally am waiting for the readers' digest large print edition to come out because i can't read it. [laughter] >> host: karen's in chester, pennsylvania. hi, karen. >> caller: hi. thank you for c-span, and hello, mr. o'rourke. i was wondering if you would -- >> guest: hi, karen. >> caller: -- care to share your thoughts on the unity of the republican party or lack thereof. they have 18 people with 18 -- >> guest: yeah, lack thereof. >> caller: right. 18 different opinionings. >> guest: yeah, it was -- >> caller: there's no unity. [laughter] what kind of message -- >> host: okay, we got the point. let's hear from p.j. o'rourke. thank you, karen. >> guest: yeah, i mean, i'm
9:26 pm
exhausted, you know, just keeping track of all these fools. it used to be said that the democratic party fell in love, and the republican party fell in line. that obviously is not the case anymore. it's the democratic party that fell in line. i mean, i think there's almost universal support and almost universally reluctant support for hillary clinton, this kind of a used car of a political candidate. you saved up your whole life to buy a new car, and you go down to the dealership, and they say, well, we have got a possibility yak, got an oldsmobile. on the republican side, i don't know, i guess everybody just went nuts. the examples that i've been using, it's not that i particularly sport john kasich, but here's a guy, popular conservative governor of a very, very purple state, ohio. he beat a sitting governor, a sitting democratic governor by a little bitty margin, then he went on to be reelected by a landslide. he's been conservative but not too conservative. everybody in ohio hates each other the same way as everybody
9:27 pm
in the rest of the united states hates each other, all the same conflicts, labor versus management, rich versus poor, immigrants versus nativists, black verses white, they all hate each other, but they all love john. meanwhile, he was nine terms in the house of representatives and doing some important stuff there. i mean, he was 18 years on the house armed services committee, so he knows about that stuff. six years chairman of the house budget committee, so he knows about that stuff. okay, what's wrong -- and he's a personal guy, a nice guy. people like him. he's reasonably good looking, he's tall enough, and he's polling at 4 percent. i don't get it. i mean, i get it maybe that he didn't win or maybe that he was polling below this perp or that person -- this person or that person, but he's polling at 4%, a perfectly qualified guy. i don't get it. >> host: well, this text message, if trump didn't exist as a real person and candidate, could you ever have had the imagination or courage to create him as a literary character?
9:28 pm
>> guest: no, no way. i mean, he wouldn't fly, you know, nobody would buy it. when they say you can't make these things up, sometimes they mean you can't make these things up. >> host: another text message for you, p.j. o'rourke. do you have any contact with and are there other living members of the national lampoon staff around? >> guest: there are other living members of the lampoon staff around. i don't have a lot of contact with them, but i still talk to a few of them, and, you know, it's been a long, long time ago. and a couple of the people that i was closest to at national lampoon -- notably john hughes and doug kenny, one of the founders -- are, unfortunately, dead. we don't hang. we don't hang together, but, you know, they're still out there. >> host: next call for p.j. o'rourke, and we have a fresh water for you here, mr. o'rourke. >> guest: oh, thank you. >> host: sorry about the casualness. [inaudible] >> host: i don't think so. randy in pittsburgh.
9:29 pm
randy, thanks for holding, randy, you're on the air. >> caller: absolutely. p.j., i can't tell you what a pleasure this is to speak with you. i just want to tell you two quick things, and i have a question. one, i discovered your wonderful short answer how to drive fast be, yada, yada, yada, and not spill your drink in a very interesting situation. you got me through 30 days of jail in a frederick county, maryland, lock-up. [laughter] >> guest: oh, i'm sorry. i mean, i'm not sorry i got you through them -- >> caller: i got pulled over for drinking and striving on a suspended license in frederick, maryland. really screwed up, was young, just out of the army. depressed. thought my life was ruined. >> guest: right, yeah. >> caller: and i found that writing. and i ripped it out of the prison library. it's in my box downstairs. so thank you for writing that. appreciate that. >> guest: ah, you are welcome. i'm glad to know i did a little
9:30 pm
good. >> caller: secondly -- >> host: what's he referring -- okay, go ahead, randy. >> caller: no problem. >> guest: did we lose -- no, there he is. >> caller: ing because of you and because of hunter and my prison experience or whatever, i decided to become a writer, and i just released yesterday on amazon my own book, it's called a drinking man with a gulf problem. and i want to thank you for both of those things, inspiring me to write and writing that story that got me through 30 days in the frederick lock-up, man. >> guest: i'm glad to have done some good in this life. >> host: what is he referring to? >> guest: well, i guess we're just going to come right out and say it on television. the piece that i wrote was how to drive faston whi the piece that i wrote was called how to drive fast on drugs and not spill your drink. actually i would like to claim it was a little better researched.
9:31 pm
i think i was fantasizing a trifle. i was living in new york. i didn't even have a car. >> host: sam from farmington hills wants no have you ever been a -- at ohio or j. and h.? >> i went to be john hopkins university and oddly enough they have not invited me to come and be the commencement speaker and is interesting because i now have a college-age daughter who may be applying to both those schools and i'm going to have to write a letter saying that's a different p.j. o'rourke altogether. we get mixed up all the time and it's been a lifelong era that and i've thought about bringing criminal action against him. that is in me, didn't go there and i promise never to go there again. posted from washington d.c., thanks for holding. please go ahead with your question or comment for p.j. o'rourke. >> caller: this is such an
9:32 pm
incredible pleasure. how does one follow randy come i have no idea. my question is a simple one, have you been or do you plan to come to washington d.c.? >> guest: actually we lived there for a long time. we lived there for about 15 years and we kept a place there for quite a while. when the kids got to be school-age we decided do we want our children to be exposed to this and by this you know what i mean. so we had a to place all along in new hampshire a summer place so we moved up there but now that the kids are about to be parked in various different schools we are seriously thinking of coming back because for me it pours its like not being in washington is like not getting to go to the circus plus we still have a lot of good friends there. the social aspect of it is great and also we live in a town of
9:33 pm
300 the only place to go out in eat is one i'm cooking on the barbecue grill. going out the screen door. >> host: p.j. o'rourke bernie sanders is running for president. have you read about it? >> guest: i have written about the commander -- bernie sanders is a type i never expected to see back in the public eye in america. it belongs not to the 1960s hippie dippy generation like for that matter hillary clinton and bill he belongs to a prior generation half a generation older f. angry left-wing bidder sbs organizer types who frankly were a bomber back in 1967 and they are even more a bummer now. what really gets me is what really gets my, it isn't disagreement about politics.
9:34 pm
he says he wants to make america more like europe. europe has had a great track record for the past 100 years. things have just been hunky and dori in europe. where do you go to get the nazis and in lunatics to make america more like europe? no thanks. let's go michael is calling from deerfield beach, florida. michael go ahead. >> caller: hello. first up i wanted to say thank you very much mr. p.j. o'rourke. you are it when it comes to communication. by that i mean the populace at large. the center for disease control this past week i drop you are aware of is the health and human services came out and said they were all crazy in a pulsating comping california based on
9:35 pm
something they called complex dramatic justice, ptsd in our schools. and behaviorally transmitted bad behavior that communities in schools and suffering clearly it is not caricatured and put into commonly no one's going to want to hear it so i want to thank you ahead of time. i can't help but think. it's going to be a big topic there. >> host: michael, thank you. >> guest: my whole life explain. i knew there was something the matter with me but the national institutes of health came out in the past week with all these facts and figures about how it is healthier to be that, that all sorts of diseases, you have a higher survival rate if you weigh more after years and years
9:36 pm
of telling us we were all too fat. i had been hitting the bacon to do the best i can. i love speaking for everybody. >> host: this is easy in texas via text message. what is your definition of conservatism. looking out the current candidates it looks like the definition of fear, hate and meanness. >> guest: i won't disagree with you there. to me a conservative is somebody who is worried about the size and scope of government. it's almost like a quantitative concern. people who have power over us is always dangerous when he and a group of people has power over any other group of people whether it's management or labor. it's dangerous and unhappy making to have people have power
9:37 pm
over people especially when it's inappropriate power, supposedly free adults having power over supposedly other free adults in the thing that makes government different from other sources of power is that government has a legal monopoly and deadly force. therefore we have to be extra careful about the amount of power to give the government. i think a good conservative to my mind is somebody that always keep that in mind. and keeping in mind the importance of liberties and a private property upon which individual liberties are based. how does this tie in with what i'm seeing and i'm not saying all but way too many of the republican candidates? i don't see it in where is anti-immigrant coming from? i'm willing to listen to an anti-immigrant argument from a native american. i think native americans might have a few things to say about the dangers of immigration and
9:38 pm
i'm willing to listen to them especially if it they have -- but i'm not willing to listen to it from a whole bunch of people who like myself have families that come from europe. we can use it as an example of hatemongering and fear and i'm disgusted. >> host: p.j. o'rourke has been our guest talking about his newest book, here it is "thrown under the omnibus" a reader. as always mr. o'rourke we appreciate you coming on booktv and taking calls. >> guest: is a much fun. i really enjoy doing it. thank you and i'm going to go fix the weather as soon as i get done here. we are joined by author luther campbell. here's the book, the book of blues my fight for truth justice and liberty city. mr. campbell what and where is liberty city? >> guest: the city is probably
9:39 pm
10 minutes away from here. 58th and tenth avenue. martin luther king boulevard. >> host: what is it? >> guest: what is it? i talk about in my book it's a neighborhood in which black folks whom he first came here we eventually started moving to liberty city where that right to the african-american community in south florida. i talked about in the book one of the first persons to purchase a home there. they didn't know he was a black eye and when he showed up they were like oh we didn't know we were selling to a black eye.
9:40 pm
he eventually moved in and when the first guys to move to liberty city. >> host: and i went from 500 to 2500 overnight. what is to live crew? >> guest: to lead crew is a group that eventually -- i started out dj in my career. i was a mobile dj in miami and a band that was struggling. they said we want to do a song. i said i will help you. i want you to help me out because i want you to do a son of what am i dances i created and they did this song. remember that song? it was a breakdance. eventually it went from that point to an album.
9:41 pm
>> host: it was rap music? >> guest: the first hit pop song done in the south. we started and created hit pop in the south. >> host: what is your relationship between 2-live crew in the supreme court? >> guest: two live crew in the supreme court. two live crew ended up beating me in the supreme court. it was something that i think that was destined to happen because hip-hop at that time was under attack by dan quayle the governor of the state of florida my friend, federal judge in broward county. you name it everybody was out there. >> host: was it a first amendment case with the supreme court? >> guest: it was a parity case originally. there were two cases and i talk
9:42 pm
about in the book. one obviously the one that i went to the supreme court, the most important case was the one that my lawyer got overturned in the fourth district court of appeals. not the fourth district court for the court of appeals where the case was whether the music was considered obscene or not. the judge originally said the music was obscene and we had to get it overturned. the music that you hear right now is totally different. >> host: luther campbell one point you write in your book "the book of luke" that you are worth $100 million. did the money come easy? >> guest: did the money come easy? not really. it was tough. just like biggie small's song, more money, no problems. more problems. the more money i got the more
9:43 pm
problems i had. i tried to be smart about it and get good competent people in good tax attorneys and i built my corporation. most of those smart people that i put around they stole from me in my opinion. so it was difficult to make the money and it was hard to keep the money. >> host: was your work as part of 2 live crew, was a graphic? >> guest: my work was not graphic. the works of the other members could it be considered as graphic they think they are right. there are values as well as free speech. when you listen to a record and the lyrics that i wrote it was totally different but i was a producer. it's my responsibility for everything that was put out and given out to the general public. >> host: from your hook sub three -- from your book, "the
9:44 pm
book of luke" the reason i don't get the credit i get is because of uncle luke. >> guest: my mom and dad raised luther campbell just like she raised my brothers. cum laude navy pilot comptroller me i was a young guy the baby of the family who looked around and heard those guys complaining about money after college or whether they were in the armed services and they felt like they were being mistreated because they were black. particularly my third oldest brother. i don't think he ever got any leave. i ended up becoming uncle luke
9:45 pm
was originally luke skywalker. the record company was luke skywalker company. i'm still uncle luke because i look out for my community and i try and do the right thing for everybody. >> host: mr. campbell was uncle luke a stage persona and a sense? >> guest: yeah no doubt about it. luke campbell, luke on stage was the guy to give the people what they wanted. if you listen to record it was our responsibility to go out other than going to a concert in situation and toning it down at that particular time.
9:46 pm
as far as the government push back we pushed back and the records got more graphic than we wanted them but we were in this thing called the fight for free speech. >> host: the fight for 2 live crew was never about the lyrics. it's about the principle of fighting for the right to do the same thing white artist did without legal harassment and censorship. >> guest: e. when i looked at it at that particular time again been the first hip-hop label in the south , i look at artists like leroy skillet, you name it. these guys, then you look at people like andrew dice clay. those guys were already with major record labels. they were not getting their records taken off the shelf or
9:47 pm
they looked at it from the standpoint of saying i'm a hip-hop artist. i'm an easy target for the government and i said look if i have to take all the money that i earned to fight for free speech for hip-hop that i will do that. >> host: what are you doing today? >> guest: what am i doing today? i'm coaching high school football. i still have the record label, luke records and we do quite a few musical jingles for commercials whether his commercials or movies and i'm just helping my wife out with her agency and restaurants. i'm just happy helping out in the community. >> host: how did you get involved as a defense coordinate or for miami high school? >> guest: my passion has always been football. i ended up going to -- playing football.
9:48 pm
i would go back to my youth program and with sam johnson 25 years ago. i ended up coaching and now i have some great players whether it's lamonte davis, carrie williams, devontae -- of the redskins and you name it we have quite a few kids in the league now. the most important one is the one that came out of my program, a city commissioner one of the most important areas which is this area as well. >> host: let's bring it all back luther campbell to liberty city, your career and your trajectory and what you went through. what is your role in the party city now? >> guest: my role in the party city is to try, to stay here and do everything i possibly can to help the people who do not have
9:49 pm
a voice. when i look at politics in liberty city and miami in general are black elected officials are owned by special interest groups that don't have interest in the african-american people here in south florida. my job to stay here and fight and fight for kids in school, fight for jobs. the unemployment rate is horrible. i fight for blighted communities every day there's a challenge of taking their property and putting condos on their properties every day. that is one of the reasons i have moved to hollywood and moved to new york when i was in the music industry and stayed there to fight for my people. >> host: you talk in your book the fact that you ran for mayor at one point. how did you do?
9:50 pm
>> guest: i did good. i came in fourth place. i came in first place with all the dash voters and in south florida the living people i came in first place in the data came in fourth. >> host: you got 11% of the vote overall. you also talk about how you look at it as one miami. has that and achieve? guess who it's been a struggle because from the outside looking in the people of miami want one miami. there is the day that goes by the sum of my latin friends are jewish friends, you name it they come to me and say what can we do to help these communities and what can we do to help the school's? is not a day that goes by.
9:51 pm
the politicians controlled by the special interest groups. those are the ones who tried to create this diversion and separation. we have some great people here in miami. they want one miami and i think that will be my slogan going forward, one miami. >> host: in your book "the book of luke" you talk about the fact that the explicit lyrics label that was put on a lot of albums and cds, you are partially responsible for that but it wasn't put on and tell white kids started buying explicit rap music. it was okay you say when black kids were buying them. >> guest: like i say in the book i talk about it in detail. i want people to know what i was going through. i had to really figure out why i
9:52 pm
was going through all this controversy and the vice president tipper gore was coming after me. as i went on i started to think about it and i was like okay well hip-hop has been around. rock 'n roll is being phased out a little bit. all the white kids are listening to the music and that's when the controversy came. it iced tea and nwa ended up on tipper gore -- al gore's wife. at that time i figured that was what it was all about. it was all about white kids not getting the music but when i looked at it i said it's important. white kids should listen to the struggles of black kids because hip-hop music is nothing but the modern age blues. tupac and guys talking about the
9:53 pm
struggles they have had in their community. nwa making their movie so popular at the time. there are a lot of kids today saying -- the police and there are great stories that i talk about. black eye's -- black ice are being shot and killed. the book is important for people to read from a historical standpoint. >> host: explicit lyrics inside. here's the book, "the book of luke" my fight for truth, justice and liberty city. luther campbell is the author. "the book of luke" is what the book is called from earlier today. our live coverage continues. up next who are going to year from two authors talking about animals and animal rights. tracy stewart and jean bauer are
9:54 pm
the authors and this panel will begin in just a few minutes. after that live coverage from the u.s. poet laureate and other panel with joy-ann reid all ahead on booktv's live coverage for the miami book fair. ♪ ♪
9:55 pm
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
9:56 pm
[inaudible conversations] ♪ ♪ [inaudible conversations]
9:57 pm
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
9:58 pm
♪ ♪ ♪ [inaudible conversations]
9:59 pm
>> let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
10:00 pm
♪ [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
10:01 pm
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
10:02 pm
[inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. good afternoon. you are the brave crowd that swam here despite the rain and we are so grateful for you. give yourselves a hand of applause. welcome to look their international. it's the pride and joy of our community and here at miami-dade college where simply thrilled to be able to host and contribute and volunteer and partner with you and the community to bring this event to our home. we are delighted for the next session with dane bauer and tracy stewart pitted like to ask you to turn off your cell phones had could be distracting.
10:03 pm
i'd also like to invite her friends of the book fair. if you could please wave and acknowledge for your generous contributions that keep us going year after year. [applause] and if you are not a friend then you would like to join our circle of friends please be certain to connect with us by the end of the day. and now i have the distinct pleasure of introducing judge monica gordo who served argument is a circuit court judge for the last five years and she will be introducing our speakers. please join me in welcoming judge gordo. [applause] >> good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. how are you today? we have two amazing others speaking today. i live here in dade county which i think somebody do. i'm happy to be here at the book fair because like most of you i'm an avid reader. two authors first author tracy
10:04 pm
stewart. she has a book that is, called living mindfully with animals. a friendly guide to how animals live and how they can make their lives better. the title of her book. tracy story provides insight into the secret lives of animals and the kindest ways to live with and alongside of them. the co-founder and president of arms and shredded nations leading farm animal protection organization jean bauer are other author presents living the farm sanctuary life the ultimate guide to eating living longer and feeling better every day. going back to tracy, tracy said editor-in-chief of the web site which provides parents and kids with fun and easy and effective ways to contribute to varying kinds of non-profits. she lives on a farm in new jersey with her husband jon stewart. ready for this? she has two kids, four dogs, two pigs, one hamster, three rabbits, two guinea pigs, she is
10:05 pm
a brave woman, one paradigm to fish. all are rescues except for her kids and i'm imagining her husband. in her new book a friendly guide to how animals live and how we can make their lives better stewart provides insight into the secret lives of animals in the kindest ways to live alongside them at them. i hope she shows readers how to adopt an animal. in the backyard we learned about dealing with pesky moles and creative ways to bird watch. on the farm stewart teaches us what we can do to help all farm animals lead a better life. she reveals superpowers she believes pigs have. parp red guide part testament to the power of giving back to want to animals as a gift for animal lovers of all stripes.
10:06 pm
jean bauer are second authors the co-founder and president of the nations leading farm animal protection organizations and named conscience of the food movement by "time" magazine. he has been featured in "the new york times" los angeles times "chicago tribune" and "the wall street journal" among many others and is a frequent guest on television. he is the author of the bestseller of farm sanctuary changing hearts and minds about animals and pay. his latest living the farm sanctuary life deals may guide to eating mindfully living longer and feeling better every day this book is an inspiring book for readers looking to improve their lives and the lives around them. both you and four-legged so please give a warm welcome to our two authors tracy stewart and jean bauer. [applause] [applause]
10:07 pm
>> hello everybody. thank you for being here and for your interest in talking about and thinking about animals. and our relationships with animals. when it comes to animal for food this is an area that not a lot of people pay a lot of attention to so we will be talking some about that and about the good things and do not so good things in our world when it comes to our relationship with animals. we started back in the 1980s investigating farms to document conditions and see first-hand what was happening and we would literally find living animals thrown in trash cans were living animals thrown on piles of dead animals. oam on piles of dead animals so we started rescuing them and we have sanctuaries in new york, california and soon in new jersey. we are extremely excited about
10:08 pm
that. and once the animals come to farm sanctuary, and they are our friends, not our food, they enjoy their lives. we get to enjoy their lives, and it is a win/win. i have been to these factory farms and seen animals in small crates where they can't move, where they are literally clinking against the bars to get out, suffering every day of their lives. and people who work in these places to some extent i think absorb the stress of that environment. can you imagine what it is like going into a massive warehouse where you have thousands and thousands of animals lined up in rows of crete's, clanking against the bars, screening. the air is thick with the toxic fumes from their waist and it is a stressful place to be where the animals and the people, think about slaughterhouse, not pleasant for any one. and contrast that with a
10:09 pm
sanctuary where it the animals get to enjoy life, where they get to run and play, we have turkeys that follow you around like puppy dogs. we have sheep who love to be petted and so you are paying them and when you stop paying them and walk away they start buying at you saying keep getting the sort of like a dog would. they are not that different from cats and dogs in terms of their desire to enjoy life, in terms of their ability to recognize people and have memories. when the animals first come to a oftentimes they are very fearful of people because they have only known cruelty and pain when people have approached them. for example in the industry it is common for pigs for example to have their tails cut off without any pain killer. to be castrated without any pain killers, to have chunks of skin knocked out of their years without any pain killers.
10:10 pm
when a human being approaches them, in the past it has meant been. so often times when they come to farm sanctuary they are frightened of people because of that experience and that memory but as time goes, it is recognized they are in different place and when people approach them is to get petted, if they're sheep or pigs, they love belly rubs, but they start warming up to us. and the animals at the sanctuary see how the other animals are reacting and recognize they feel safe and they feel positive about the environment and the new animal rival learns from their other residents and they say this is a sanctuary, this is very different from anything they experienced before. this is the world that is great for the animals but also one that is good for us. and we encourage people to--who
10:11 pm
aren't on a farm to come visit the farm. for folks in cities and everywhere in this country to think about how we eat and recognize our food six have a profound impacts on other animals, on ourselves and on the planet and i have been of vegan since 1985, i eat no animal food, get everything i need from plant food and it is estimated we could save 70% on health care costs in this country by shifting to a hold foods planting, eating plant foods instead of animals is not only good for animals but good for us. the united nations put out a report couple years ago called livestock long shadow in that report they talked about how animal agriculture is one of the top contributors to the most serious environmental problems are of planet is facing including climate change. animal agriculture contributes more to climate change than the
10:12 pm
entire transportation system. this is an industry that is causing enormous harm to animals, it is negatively impacting our own health, it is harming the planet and most people grow up unwittingly supporting this. i grew up eating meat because everybody around me was and i didn't think about it but it -- as time went and i started thinking about it recognize i could live well on plants and no animal products and that is one of the best decisions i ever made. everybody has to make their home choice. each of us have to decide what works but we grow up bombarded with messages that we need meet for protein but that is the myth. we can get all the protein wheat from plans. we are bombarded with the message we need to drink our an end calcium but in fact if you look at our country we drink a lot of cal's milk but we also have a lot of osteoporosis which is a calcium deficiencies the drinking,'s milk is not
10:13 pm
something to solve that problem. we need to think about our food shoelaces, make mindful ones and to do so in a way we can feel good about. too often what happens when the issue of factory farming comes up and the cruelty associated with it people say don't tell me, i don't want to know because it is too upsetting but it is important to pay attention and to know what you are supporting and take responsibility and as we do that as a society i think we will see a shift that we are beginning to see a shift. in fact the number of farm animals being raised and slaughtered in the u.s. recently started going down. that is because people icy in this and don't think it is okay. so it has never been a better time for our movement, there's more information available online, there is video, pictures of factory farming cruelty and pictures of animals playing and enjoying life.
10:14 pm
and we love people to share those and educate others that these are living creatures and we can live with them and if we can live well without causing unnecessary harm what wouldn't be? so i guess i will end with ann and open up for tracy and have a discussion and open up for questions so thank you very much. [applause] >> before we came out on stage, james said he didn't know what to talk about. i was feeling really confident. just to start off, i would say i am a baby vegan, i am new to being vegan. when i started writing the book "do unto animals" i was a vegetarian, but since reading gene bauer's first book and what happened for me was my kids started to get older. i had kids, and a veterinary technician, the way i came to that was i always loved animals when i was young, i really felt
10:15 pm
empathetic and felt that i cared so much about them that if i were to pursue that as a courier, it would be debilitating for me, too much. and so i went in another direction, i studied art and had a lot of jobs doing design, i was really unfulfilled and it took awhile, my boyfriend at the time who is my husband now would say to me i don't understand you are such a passionate person and yet you live such a compassionate life, you don't enjoy what you do and you don't work on the things that really touch your heart. and so i think he convinced me that i needed to work that didn't make me cry so i did go back to school and became a veterinary technician and the funny thing that happened was all those things that used to upset me, i think a lot of times it is hard to face those things,
10:16 pm
when you feel overwhelmed comment and not so much you as an individual can do. and turned that energy into thinking i could do when you start to do those things whether they are very small things, start to feel you are working your way toward something positive, there's real strength that comes from that, up those things that upset you don't affect you in the same way, at and you are helping, like when i was a veterinary technician the things that i was fearful about were the things that i began to love. not that it was ever a happy experience when an animal was euthanize but that was one of the main reasons i didn't want to become that and i found actually those with the moments of the most because they were such beautiful moments, things i got to experience with people that were so profound, saying
10:17 pm
goodbye and being there to comfort the person that was about to lose the animal and the animal health, those are the things sometimes i think it life we can set ourselves up to be safe. we can listen to our fear is and i think i am finding as i get older when i look back at when my life started to get progressively better it was when i face my fear is and on the other side of that was something really powerful, and when i had my kids i took a break from being a veterinarian technician and i really was focused on keeping them save, keeping them from falling down the stairs and had not myopic vision at that point and i was overwhelmed. i wasn't looking to make changes in my life, certainly not dietary changes at that point and i found as they got older they wanted to go out into the world and they really wanted to do something where their voices could be heard, where they could feel they had an impact and i
10:18 pm
volunteered at a shelter for many years and realized that was the perfect place to take them so we started going there and they started making videos for the dogs that were very good with children still a lot of times people have a difficult time getting adopted. but it bulls that had been there a long time and had a good history with children, my kids would do videos for that, make animations for then and there were several times right after where the dogs did get adopted so for them that made them feel so good and powerful and when we got to the point we couldn't adopt, living in the city at the time, they would do virtual adoptions, they would fall in love with someone and they would advocate for that animal, and would tell their friends we have a little charm bracelet we would make with pictures of the cats and dogs and when their friends asked about them, what they knew where somebody was waiting for
10:19 pm
them. so i started to write the book with that in mind because i was feeling like the things we were doing were so interesting for my parenting and it was really improving my parenting and improving lives of my kids and so the book first began as that. and as i started to write and expand out, i started to have to read things i didn't want to read fryer and i became aware of a lot of things i had shut the door to knowing, certainly after writing the farm animals section but i found it was so surprising though when i actually faced and was aware of it, motivated me to make a change that actually made me happier and did not made my life more difficult, and hoping when people read it, it goes slow and takes you lots of places and takes you, i think if we are sitting here now talking about being vegan as the only solution i hope that is not the
10:20 pm
message you will leave with. [laughter] >> that is not what we are saying. >> every step is a good step. >> vegans are really good at every step is good. >> when i think back to how live my life several years ago, the same, compassionate, rational, intelligent person and i didn't live the life i am living now. i do understand it is a lot to change all at once and so when i wrote the book, i wanted to show, every little things you could do every day that could help you feel good about the way you were living and to connect to. there is the middle of the book about your backyard and moving out of the city and moving into suburbs, and release threat by
10:21 pm
how other neighbors were talking about problems they were having in their yard, and everybody out there, i would sit and watch what they were doing, i realize they were doing a lot, i see trucks driving like test control, and i hope people will even change that way of thinking to not think of them as testss, but to watch and see what they are doing out there and my lawn isn't as green as my neighbor's and that is okay but i have lots of happy critters' running around and my kids have lots of projects and lots of things to build in the backyard and lots of feeders to fill land animals to watch and build the garden and we build it twice as big as what we wanted so that when the rabbits got in and the squirrels gotten it was fine because it was meant for them so we share and bears his been plenty for the amount of greens we actually
10:22 pm
eat there has been plenty. you might have a harder time. i think the message of what "do unto animals" is is there are little things you can do in your life everyday and by doing those things there really is an impact. when we think about rescuing animals week think we are rescuing the animals but more times than not we are rescuing ourselves and i do think when we take these steps toward being kind to other creatures we are being really kind to ourselves and really getting a lot back from doing that. >> when we see the undercover investigation and horrible things, being able to come home with a rescued animal, helped heal us as well as the animals were able to lift their head and stand, it lifted our hearts and to watch them go out and enjoy life and play also was very inspiring to us, so it boils down to what is our relationship
10:23 pm
with other animals? is it when based on respect or is it one based on exploitation? if it is based on exploitation there is a whole sort of series of psychological machinations you go through to feel okay about treating somebody else badly and when it comes to farm animals for example, we tend to denigrate them in the way we speak, being called a pig is not a compliment for instance or being called a turkey is not a compliment the these are animals that have feelings and individuals and they develop relationships and friendships and one of the myths out there i have heard for years is turkeys are so dumb they go outside and drown in the rain. we have been taking care of turkey's for 30 years now and they are allowed to go in the barn or outside or in the rain or outside and never have gone outside and drowned in the rain.
10:24 pm
there are the stories we tell ourselves to feel better about mistreating these others and this is in the case over human history, if there are victims of abuse of a more powerful group there's a tendency to denigrate them and when it comes to victims in our society today, every year there are 9 billion farm animals raised and slaughtered under egregious conditions and that is more than there are people on the planet and the number every year, these numbers are immense and it is hard to get your head around that. what is important is to recognize these region to mitchell's. we think 9 billion, you think i can't comprehend that but when you recognize 1 plus 1 plus 1, each individual, a to 9 billion, that makes it much more real and each of the animals that live in farm sanctuary came out of the system and each of them has
10:25 pm
their life transformed did in a way our life is transformed too, our relationship is realigned to be one based on compassion and respect and that is good for everybody involved. the quote i love we don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are. i heard factory farm people talk so often about how these animals are violent. there's one big farmer who visited our farm years ago and he saw some of our volunteers taking care of these and this pig farmer was genuinely worried about the well-being of our volunteers lisa those pigs are going to attack you and i told him we have never had this experience of pigs attacking us and often they come in french but learn to trust us and they never acted in a violent way toward us and the farmers that i raised pigs 3 years, as i understand these animals, you
10:26 pm
can't trust them. to make his point, he told a story about a mother pig who had babies and he took her babies away and she came after him. he told this story to make the point that these are violent animals without having any clue or recognition that his behavior caused this mother to react when her babies are taken away. a natural, instinct will reaction most mothers would have but this farmer didn't see that. this is a violent animal and the solution to that is you put them in small crates. we can control their behavior and prevent that aggression in their minds. we start doing the sort of mental mack and asians to create a world we feel better about and too often that means denigrating these individuals we have mistreated. to me being vegan is an aspiration, to live as kindly as
10:27 pm
possible. it is an ongoing process. is not an ingredient. for example, i will often buy organic produce which is probably grown with slaughterhouse by products, meat and bone for instance though if it is an ingredient it must not be vegan but it is an aspiration and each of us can do better each day and it is a process and there is not an end to it so new jersey. >> i want to say one thing about that, sometimes we can stop ourselves from making a change in our life because we think there's a certain way we have to do it and i know for my husband when he was struggling to be a vegetarian, he kept bringing up the second avenue deli basket we get every year at the holidays and when the second avenue deli entered his mind he would say i just don't think i could do it.
10:28 pm
finally i said how about you just do it until the second avenue deli basket comes in and you let yourself eat it and it is funny because what has happened -- where you are, i think if there is something you are afraid of that is a reason you are telling yourself not to move forward think about what you could do and knows that you will get a little further down the path, but sometimes i met certain vegans that really think their way of being vegan is the way and i think the important thing to remember it is no one is the boss of you. you can do it in whatever way you want to do it. there's this idea, i have a whole collection of shoes and if i go vegan 9 won't be able to wear this any more. to this telling you that? my friend calls that freegan.
10:29 pm
before you thought that when you bought those clothes so if you have to wear them and that is the one thing stopping you from making another change in your life and go ahead and do that and that ends up happening, you find other things you don't wear as much, so i do think sometimes people stop themselves because of that and i would love to have that be a message, due in whatever way you can. it is about living kindly and making decisions everyday and as far as food goes i make the decision to eat all day long, eating constantly so i do feel that was one reason, that is going to complicate my life so much but the reality of it was -- i have celiac disease also, a had to go and change my diet r .. point.
10:30 pm
we are afraid and the fear prevents us from doing anything but when it comes to daily choices, we have a lot of control, things we don't have control over, when we are at the grocery store, we can make concrete shoelaces and if we are mindful about those choices it can make a big difference in each of us has a lot of power to shift small fingers, the way to go because shifting overnight can seem daunting but be mindful and paying attention. one of the reason things have gotten as bad as they have is we have not paid attention. we have gone along with what everybody around us is doing. like i mentioned i grew up eating meat because everybody around me was doing it and they didn't think about it and when i
10:31 pm
went begin, all of a sudden everyone was thinking about it, what is this about? food is very emotional. we have attachments tied to our identity, human beings forever have gotten together a round food as part of the community. food and community are affected. as we gather as human beings it can be challenging being a vegan in a non vegan world it is important to recognize not everybody -- for non vegans it is good to recognize for vegan this is something that is very emotionally important to see living animals as not too different from cats and dogs. there is now more awareness and more discussion and open discussion about these issues which is challenging because they i emotional.
10:32 pm
people who grew up in a family where parents care about the children, want to feed from well, the children when they get into high school or college, parents feel they are being rejected. the whole emotional thing about it, a better way to look at it is children have learned to think and be careful and mindful about their shoelaces and responsible too and accountable for their choices and that is happening a lot where young folks are making these choices, it can lead to some challenges in social dynamics but the intent should not be to put anybody down. intent should be to support positive shift. as tracy was saying nobody has all the answers. we can all learn from each other. benjamin franklin said everybody thinks the same way nobody is thinking. that is a very valuable thing to
10:33 pm
remember. there are different perspectives, different ways to go about this and each of us is on our own path but most people would rather live in a way that is rooted in compassion and respect and responsibility and causing less harm as opposed to causing more harm. is impossible to live without causing any harm but most of us would generally prefer to cause less harm. most of us would rather eat food that is nourishing and doesn't lead to chronic disease we have in this country like heart disease, cancer and diabetes and reduce the risk of those by eating plants and animals, even by shifting bit by bit in that direction and most of us would rather live on a planet not being polluted and where scarce resources like water are not being despoiled by this industry that is so wasteful. 70% of the corn, 90% of soybeans produced in the u.s. are fed to
10:34 pm
farm animals. we could feed so many more people without using as many resources, by eating plants instead of animals. these are the facts to look at but it is important to recognize we are individuals that have emotional attachments and to look at those and determine what ultimately serves us well, what serves our families well, what serves our planet well and as we delve into these issues we can start making small shifts and besides our food, how we relate in our backyards to animals and seeing animals as co in haven'ts of the planet and paying attention too and seeing the beauty that exists in nature and appreciating it and it shifts our attitudes towards one of respect and wonderment in a way, children especially have a real kind of openness and ability to
10:35 pm
see things that as we grow we become adulterated and don't see the same way. your children i think are very much enjoying time with animals. >> very much so. started to mention the farm, my husband and i bought a farm in new jersey and our idea was to start an animal sanctuary because our kids were getting involved and enjoying fat. i spent time at farm sanctuary, that was really transforming it to me and really positive experience where you do fall in love and make friends up there. i wanted to do something close to home where there were a lot of people, and now it will be the fourth branch of farm sanctuary and we are going to do with it is making an educational center so the idea is hopefully one of the things that will accomplish that, kids coming and maybe on the farm, in third
10:36 pm
grade, maybe they are learning to grow something, fourth grade, what they are going to learn to do is cook food, grow food, see if they can give a little care to something and grow into something really big, and they're taking care of animals and watching animals be taking care of, and a lot of therapy there, you love to have something for veterans, doing therapy for that, my daughter volunteers for something called gentle carrousel where there are tiny little horses the going to hospitals, places where nursing home says where larger horses can't go, doing that. we want to create this space where people come year in and year out and see the same animals. i think that is what happens, dogs and cats get to see them and watch them. the idea somebody would say animals don't have feelings, looking at our dogs for cats, is
10:37 pm
crazy. but somehow if someone is saying something about a pig or how it doesn't seem as crazy. you do feel it in such a great way that when you make the changes in your life in other ways it doesn't feel there is a lot, there is a powerful gain that happens for you. with the book i have been approached a lot by people who want to have a reality show based on me which will never happen. ever. but i sometimes think i just wish someone could follow be our rounds with a camera and see how happy i am and how much i eat and how much i enjoy my food and my life and my wife and my relationship with animals, i sometimes do wish that but not
10:38 pm
enough. not enough to become a kardashian. that is not going to happen. >> when you live your passion it is a beautiful thing. that is the thing about being mindful and looking at our actions and being responsible for the man living in a way we feel good about and not being dissident and think i don't want to see that. no reality show then? so when you eat on a daily basis what do you enjoy eating? >> so many things. lie new favorite thing that i discovered, cream cheese, in the morning i have a gluten free bagel, slice of tomato and salt and pepper, very bad thing i have been doing, protein shakes in the morning and lunge i will have lentils and rice and snack on fruits during the day and
10:39 pm
have another big typists to at night like kale, rice, my favorite food would be that. >> tons of protein in it. the greens movies, do you do that very much? i have done a few, when i'm training for those, and sometimes -- you are burning a lot of calories a you got to eat so much. in my book "living the farm sactuary life" i have a recipe from this vegan triathlete like double iron man distance, and made in the office, it was massive. you are doing enormous amounts of training, how you eat makes sense to reflect your level of activity. >> that is why i eat so much.
10:40 pm
>> it is so true. when you are mindful about your food and recognize what it does to you that can be very healthy. in this country we are addicted to sugar and things like that and just get into this routine where we don't recognize that. by shifting how we eat we could feel much better physically, as well as emotionally. children for example eat a lot of sugar at noon and be a challenging afternoon. and impact on our well-being that you don't think about, heart disease kills more people in this country isn't anything else and we could reduce our risk in a huge way and our medical profession is not well informed about benefits of plant based eating. i am in my 50s and haven't been to a doctor in decades. i went to dr. a few years ago to
10:41 pm
get a checkup and make sure everything is okay. the doctor starts asking me questions about heart disease in my family and i told him my father died of heart attack, my grandfather died of a heart attack, my father had a heart attack and without taking any blood tests or anything he tells me he might want to put me on heart medication. i was like astounded. i left that hospital and didn't go back and went to another hospital, they took my blood work and it came back fine. too often our medical profession is too click to prescribe drugs though we don't need if we eat in a more mindful, healthy way and the other thing about the pharmaceutical business is the majority of the drugs that used in the united states are fed to farm animals in these factory farms to keep them alive and growing in these filthy horrendous conditions because the stress, the disease and everything. now you have the development of antibiotic resistant bacteria and there have been efforts 3
10:42 pm
years in washington d.c. to pass laws to limits the use of these antibiotics, but it has not been able to pass because the business is so influential in washington d.c.. i live near washington d.c. and i have seen how that process works and it is pretty frustrating. so i think where the real change is going to happen and is starting to happen is individual consumers making more thoughtful choices and food decisions that are all lined with our own interests and our own values and as happens things are changing. as i mentioned the number of animals starting to go down, there are companies that have been created specifically to provide meetless alternatives to meet. there is a company called beyond meat that is making chicken, quote, chicken out of p and soy proteins and because plant foods are more efficient to grow it
10:43 pm
will be less expensive than meat from chickens and the new york times food critic couldn't tell the difference in a taste test. >> that is good. >> there is this massive shift happening in the marketplace and each person who votes with our dollars can play a role in bringing about this shift and is happening like never before. >> a couple years ago you tried, you tried some of the alternatives and they were disgusting. you were right, they were disgusting but i am telling you now there are so many great alternatives and when you venture in you might find one that is terrible, but don't let that stop you because there are great foods right now, really exciting. >> there is a cow that tells you where vegan foodies and plant based foods, you can find places that have vegan foods. i was at a dinner last night with miami food and wine festival, four i amazing chefs,
10:44 pm
they were producing incredible recipes at this restaurant. it is the creative process, the vegan culinary world is taking off, this restaurant in l.a. that is amazing, is getting increasingly satisfying to each plant food. years ago i used to be happy to see the word vegan on a menu. now i am thinking it better taste for good because so often people try it and there's a general kind of prejudice about it and a feeling that if it is vegan it can't be good but that is not the case at all and this food is getting tastier than average have real artists creating amazing -- there's a place not far from you in new jersey that has some. >> really funny. we are a minute away from incredible vegan restaurants where we live so that is exciting. we went to dinner last night, it
10:45 pm
is not a vegan restaurant so when i go to a restaurant i try to be extra nice because i am telling them i have a gluten allergy and then i tell them i m vegan so already i try to be really nice and we went in and just told them what our limitations were as far as we could lead on the menu and got so excited about it and the chef got so excited and created a whole meal for us. and mushrooms in teriyaki sauce, spicy on the side, they took a coconut rice and fried it so it was crispy and tasted more delicious, avocado and spice, you do feel your whole
10:46 pm
experience, and excited to do it for you. they never make a stink about this. >> you want to be respectful and realize people are working and may be very stressed. is so wonderful when they embrace the challenge and create amazing food. >> i don't make this thing, just really sad. >> they don't really make a stink but just interacting, sometimes just by being vegan and asking, sometimes in a strange way, really the challenge is to communicate in a way that is not going to upset people, these are very emotional issues, how do we eat and if somebody hears you are of vegan sometimes they internalize it, they judging me for eating meat
10:47 pm
and that is not the intent. that is oftentimes the emotional feeling and it is understandable, most people are humane, don't support cruelty and a lot of times people are afraid because they don't know what they could do instead. a big part of this is being a positive example land being inspiring and supportive of all positive change and the amelia had sounds incredible. so i think we are getting close to opening up for questions. if anybody wants to ask anything or raise any thoughts or things, there's a microphone here in the middle and folks should go there and raise questions if you would like to. >> it is a real privilege to be in the room with you and i so admire vegans. seven years ago i went -- chests
10:48 pm
of little funny quote, i have a cousin who has been that for several years and he said instead of feeding grains and plant food to animals let's eliminate the middleman to each it ourselves. is so true. what i want to say is will you be taking volunteers? i have been a volunteer with the command decided to four years, asked me to help today, and i said -- got a book. >> everyone will actually be hired through farm sanctuary. we will be taking volunteers, that has been such a nice part for me living in my own community as i go are relatively these to be my husband was the one and now i am getting stuff left and right, with people that really want to be involved and
10:49 pm
it is a beautiful thing, i went to the prescription and the woman behind the counter set i you going to be having volunteers? i really need to be there. i said yes, i will let you know as soon as we are ready, just got diagnosed with breast cancer and i feel like it would be really important thing for me to be there so please let me know and is things like that, i am so excited for what is going to happen. i feel like there is going to be a lot of beautiful relationships that happened there. and i am excited you want to come. >> and i have a business card. >> a couple things. when my kids were young they did the birthday parties where everyone couldn't bring a gift, they had to bring dog food or cat food for the shelter. now my youngest, just went away, guess what she asked for her birthday? her father and i can only have
10:50 pm
non vegetarian meals three times a week and her sisters get five. we have to do it for a month and that is fresen and of course the photos have to go through. anyway, her field is designing habitat because we are breeding a lot of endangered species because we can't seem to save native habitats. and i want you to talk a little bit about the funding of how we can fund animal habitats for wild animals for animals we have bred in captivity, and horses, the horse industry is a rich one.
10:51 pm
people make millions on these big federal breads, or have a worse problem here, of course is aging and expensive for people to keep them so they let their horses starve and people -- just to talk about how we can regulate the same industry to pay for down the line horses kind of like in the military we are still paying for va services all the way down the life of a person who serves in the military, how we can't get it for horses physically but maybe for other animals as well. >> habitat preservation is critically important and we keep gobbling up acreage and turning it too often into cropland to raise food for farm animals. in south america rain forests are being destroyed so soybeans can be grown to feed the animals in china right now. across the u.s. we have vast
10:52 pm
acreages being killed and plowed egregious year for feed for farm animals. unfortunately government incentive in courages this and every year we spent something like $100 billion through the farm bill to support farm programs and this helps support production of cheap corn and soybeans to feed farm animals so meat is cheaper than it should be in the marketplace so i think one of the things that has to happen is federal policies need to catch up where a lot of the public is and where the science is and to promote a healthy sustainable food system instead of one that is very exploited and depleting. when it comes to horses, there are programs to round of horse is out west, to get them off of federal land so that cattle can graze their rental lot of courses held in stockyards and
10:53 pm
sometimes have been slaughtered. a lot of times this links back to the animal agriculture industry which is massive. and uses half of the land in the u.s. is used for animal agriculture. if we start moving towards habitat preservation that is a very important place to look. forces are related but sort of on the margin and they are important as well, but it boils down to the factory farming and animal agriculture issue. >> not to plug my own web site but do -- "do unto animals" has an article about that written by joanne who wrote the book saving baby, she really goes into detail, how you did make a difference and what goes on with horses and how they are considered disposable and they do end up in slaughterhouses as
10:54 pm
food. >> first i would like to say, something like 15 copies of tracy's book. it is beautiful land makes a wonderful christmas or holiday gifts. >> thank you. >> see you later. we are animal lovers, we say we are aspiring vegans, we are long way off. we have four cats and two dogs. this is not planned parenthood. this is a little off, and i don't know if it belongs in this discussion, i wondered, you deal with animals every day, if you find that any of the animals you deal with our psychic? they say things we don't see, we had some strange experiences that have been very positive.
10:55 pm
one dog and one cats. if you have noticed any, these things are not there. >> i really do think when we talk about intelligence and we talk about ourselves as having highest intelligence i do think animals have different intelligences and because they don't have some of the things we have, i believe they have other things and i believe in my own home that my animals are really present in a way that humans are knocked and they see things and smell things and are aware of things emotionally. i was at farm sanctuary and susie was the national director of there being interviewed for a film and she started to cry and she was talking about a difficult time she has gone through and pick up named
10:56 pm
sebastian snaps at people but love susie very much. when susie started to cry, outside the barn, came into the barn and was next to her and stayed with her until she was done with the interview. she knew what was happening is >> there is an empathy, relationships and they pay attention and are in the moment and they really do comfort us in many ways and we should pay attention to them and treat from with respect and it is beautiful when that happens. >> they pay attention to us. >> it is paying attention and being mindful and ultimately responsible and living in a way we can feel good and when it comes down we treat other animals, defining who we are and the beautiful thing to see when that sort of healing goes back and forth.
10:57 pm
>> i am susan hardgrieve, we do programs in florida and internationally and nationally rewarding and recognizing kids who helped to rescue animals. i have in doing this for many years and notice things change, where kids after a program, we do begin animal hero sandwichmaking and i wonder if you could speak a little bit about how much it has changed as far as what you can get in public, not a matter of taking away what you normally eat but replacing it, i have been vegan since 1984 and there was powdered soy milk back then. compare that to today with all the silk and coconut milk, if you could speak a little bit about if the average person with
10:58 pm
an average pocket of finance goes into publix locally, what can they buy that would replace products that they currently have that is healthier for them, healthier for the planet and kinder to the animals? >> jane can speak well to this but i recognize you and i have been to your site and love what you do and i would love to talk later about doing more. >> i brought a book for you and your kids. >> thank you. >> i think it is a good point that vegan food is more easily available now than ever before. instead of cow's milk you can go to a mainstream supermarkets and get cocoanut and slam milken moment. there are alternatives, a growing alternatives to cheese and meat analogs like meatless meat loaf that you see in freezer sections. it has never been easier and you
10:59 pm
also have a regular old vegan foods like beans and rice and fruit and vegetables and whole grains and so the options are increasingly available and it is easy to substitute and good health the whole plant and living the farm sanctuary life we have the amazing recipes and tips. >> getting kids to grow food, i know from my own kids when we have things thrown in the garden they are more receptive and more excited about eating that. also more excited when they made something of themselves. i think cooking and growing for the younger generation will be very helpful. >> it really connects them and people are engaged, and powering and hopeful. >> we have been sold disconnected from that.
11:00 pm
i see a trend in fact which i am very excited about. >> very optimistic. there is this food movement we want to get close to the source of their food, and as we do we take more responsibility and we are connected which is helpful. >> we like ending on an optimistic note. we want to thank you and this is the end of the session. we appreciate you being with us. [applause] ♪ [inaudible conversations] ♪
11:01 pm
♪ [inaudible conversations]
11:02 pm
>> booktv's live coverage in miami continues. we have a couple of more author panels coming up. in a few minutes you will hear from the current poet laureate of the united states and former polish lauria of the united states, that is one panel and after that, leonard pitts and julie and read will discuss thei book, leonard pitts is local columnist and joy and read joy does with phone calls but we
11:03 pm
want to introduce gerald posner, the author of several books, his most recent is this one, "god's bankers," the history of money and power at the vatican, was published by simon and schuster. do is "god's bankers"? >> guest: they change every 20 years or so but for the most part their bishops and cardinals of the catholic church and the one person who runs the vatican bank is the pulp. the only shareholder at vatican bank, they hire layman to run the details of the in and out of money but the presents and people responsible for the finances of the vatican are the same people who run the religion. >> host: how big is the vatican bank? how much money does it hold? has access? >> guest: in reverse order who has access is a group of people, by its charter was created in the middle of world war ii, has been around seven years in the
11:04 pm
institution. citizens of vatican city, religious orders and catholic charities, in practice it has been manhandled and this used for years by everyone from wealthy italians, who has control over it, the pope is the only shareholder of the vatican bank, but in addition, the size of a small community bank, 7 to $10 billion a year, not enormous, goldman sachs pales in significance, but enough money when it is running the dark without any oversight or transparency, plenty of problems and that is what it has done. >> why was it formed during world war ii? >> he questioned the 700 page book, why was the vatican bank form, and the problems it got into, was formed in the middle of world war ii in order to avoid british and americans having a black list to stop neutral countries from working with the enemy. we were looking to stop all of
11:05 pm
these neutral countries in europe and we have put on, we meaning the united states and britain-liechtenstein and luxembourg and san marino and monaco, switzerland, every neutral country in europe except for one, the vatican. the vatican developed its own bank, went guy can't continue to do business with the german-italian fascists, they play both sides, didn't know who was going to win so invested in both. >> what is the purpose? is a leading why do they need a bank? what is the purpose? being no purpose to it that couldn't be served. they didn't have a bank for the first 1930 years of their existence, the only reason they formed one was to circumvent the rules in world war ii but now is a matter of national pride so when pope francis came into power in 2013 he set i am going to reform it but may also abolish it, he could do so with the simple degree. and a permanent observer status at the you and they are a
11:06 pm
sovereign entity as well as a religious entity, they like the bank because it is the equivalent of central bank, they want to keep it if nothing else because they think it burnishes the reputation of that. it does that has also cause a lot of headaches of a time. >> host: is there evidence of misuse? >> it is hard to catalog. one reason the book is so fake is the evidence chronicles that use of the bank continues decade after decade. with each successive pope saying i will clean it up, whether you have for instance in world war ii doing business with the germans and in the 1960s is misused by a group of italian bankers, one ends up debt and the london bridge, another is a businessman who ends up debt in jail. after that, 70s and 80s made a one quarter of $1 billion to restitution. and they cleaned it up. we lyndon and 90s and 2,000s
11:07 pm
italian politicians like the prime minister to the vatican bank, and 10 civilians of dollars, everything from their wife's bullish to politicians so until the last few years has been a source of consternation and scandal for the church. >> host: where does the money come from? >> it comes from cash given by religious orders, much of the money comes in cash and is positive for the bank, back to those religious ones for the deposit, take the deposit and a safe investment. one thing i must say for the vatican bank, in the heart of london, they bought in world war ii, major shares of the top 100 companies in the 1940s and tell them for years, they don't know money because they had none of the ones in european banks and almost a commander so they're very safe on their investments. some of the money also comes from sources of the account like
11:08 pm
money launderers, the 1% of evading taxes. in the last three years pope francis said they closed those accounts that don't exist. and the bank is down to the religious orders. >> how does the catholic church otherwise bank cannot through this bank? >> to correspondent banks. one thing before the vatican bank existed, they did need the vatican bank because they did it all for the bank of rome and the bank of england, and the banks they normally would. the problem with those banks and doing that as a country is the international banking investigators and the country's, chase manhattan, they can follow your money so if you're transferring $5 million to chase manhattan american investors in the treasury department can see where you are going, that is what the vatican wanted, they wanted their own secrecy of national bank and got it. >> what kind of problems?
11:09 pm
>> problems you expect when dealing with billions of dollars, no transparency and lack of oversight. this is mobile corps in public. 80% of the cleric's involved in running the vatican bank over the years are well intentioned and want to do the right thing in the catholic church. what i mean is they were not always personally taking fortunes, the bishops involved in the 1970s ratings end ed up house on lake geneva and rolls-royce and rory, what they did is made money from illegal operations they stashed in to what i call their own accounts in case they could use it to gain power in the vatican. perfect example, the bishop from illinois, american archbishop came to run the vatican, knew nothing about finances, he was
11:10 pm
loyal to the pope, and in 1970 brand for 18 years, he amassed $6 million slush fund from all these deals and used it when the polish pope came in, john paul ii came in, use it to help that polk destroy communism in his native poland and bring down solidarity, it endured the bank, built the power for the vatican bank, the money that got in from ill-gotten gains wasn't used necessarily for personal purposes but what i call lot power struggles within the vatican for power and closeness to the pope. >> host: what is the catholic church at history with money? >> guest: the reason this turns out to be, thing goodness i have a publisher who was willing to allow me to expand this book. i pitched an idea in 2005 that
11:11 pm
this is about world war ii and the vatican and you have a 200 year history, they let me do that because every time i thought i had a story i brought it back earlier and the key part of that once the vatican's relationship to money, you find out when you go back 150 years ago they did not like the idea of capitalism. they disdained it. the bible said melinda and interest, you couldn't do it and capitalism was an idea mix with modernism, freethinking, very dangerous, autocratic rule. not only did they have disdain for capitalism but treated it as heretical protestants and jews, please borrowed money from the rothschilds, did is insane of the traditionalists but once they lost their empire, popes were not just heads of the roman catholic church the kings who ran a 15,000 square mile empire, anyone who has seen the board joys knows it all too well, they didn't look like jeremy irons, they levied taxes, collected
11:12 pm
fees, when they lost the empire in 1870 they had to scramble to bring in money, selling indulgences, paper to forgive sins, didn't pay the bills, as the faithful to send contributions to the pope, they slowly, grudgingly embrace the concept of capitalism and in 1942 in the middle of the war when they -- they were looking at capitalism with a bit of disdain. to embrace capitalism putting it on steroids. for the next 70 years, they are engaged in what pope francis would call savage capitalism. and dramatic in the last 70 years, in the 2,000 year history. >> first of all where did you get onto this and why? >> guest: from my first book in 1986, i put out a biography of mandela, the nazi doctor. in 1984 i was done in buenos
11:13 pm
aires, the federal police fires on mandela who persisted, and in those files i found documents about german war criminals arriving in argentina with the help of a priest in rome, father weber and the bishop and i thought to myself that is interesting. a priest and bishop, nazi war criminals. i put that in the back of my mind and said i will find a publisher who will allow me to do that subject, it put me until 2005 and ten books later to find a publisher who set all right, we're willing to let you go. vote story turned out to be very different. not getting into what and july started the book it turned out to be money, not necessarily world war ii which was also about money. if you said what is the story about would have thought was about ideology, possibly not the sympathizing. can that communism, the nazis,
11:14 pm
that was the tail. >> host: how many books have you written? >> guest: 12 books but if i write from as slowly as this i won't have many more. good news about as you well know from authors, and i think david juergen years ago, his book about oil, he published it during the first gulf war so there was tremendous interest, i was supposed to have this done in 2011-2012 at the latest but i was running slow. we would have published under benedict but that would not be as interesting. >> host: franchise has energized the church, the idea that francis is a reforming pope, said something different from predecessors and brought attention to the catholic church for catholics and non catholics as well. it ends on a note of optimism. and the bank going forward.
11:15 pm
and that is luck when you publish. >> host: what has francis said publicly? anything? >> guest: he said all the right things but that did not convince me he was the real deal when it came to the vatican bank because every other pope had the right things when they became pope about reforming the bank and failed to do so but when he became pope in 2013 and set i will reform the bank, i more or less said oh sure, i heard that before but changed my mind in the following way. first of all, whoever is pope today they would have to be reforming the bank, it is a quirk of finances but italy decided to go with the euro and when it did the vatican was in a quandary because they use the italian hero for their own currencies so had decided they wanted to bring their own currency or go with the euro. they didn't know when they went with the euro that brussels wanted oversight on the central
11:16 pm
reserve vatican bank. as a result of that, the vatican attached their first-ever law against financing of terrorism in 2011 and money-laundering, they didn't have a law against money-laundering. their first flaw against how much money the dominion and disclosed in to the vatican. they had to become compliant by european standards but francis has done it with enthusiasm and vigor, she has run its independent outsiders, layman who are in fact really trying to change the culture of no transparency and make it complaint bank moving forward in the 21st century. team needs to be pope and other three four years to have the effect all the way to the bureaucracy. >> host: what is the official name of this? >> guest: institutes of works of religion. i always loved that. the institute for the works of religion is the vatican bank so sometimes, you don't go by the name of the institution, look
11:17 pm
behind the curtains to see what it is doing. >> host: is there a physical location? >> guest: the physical location, medieval tower in vatican city, in this power is where the bank is located. it has no other branch anywhere in the world, only atms inside vatican city, the only bank in the world that has latin as one of the languages, the story of the vatican bank. >> host: could you or i open an account there? >> guest: in the battle days we could open an account if we knew they cardinal who was a friend of ours but to date we would have difficulty doing it. if you were a religious order or charity, the way around it is the following, and and seven time prime minister, died the year-and-a-half ago, the most prominent postwar politician, and opened it up an account, the cardinal spell as a man
11:18 pm
foundation, there was no such institutional organization and the vatican bank. and ran about $60 million in cash over the years, everything from paying for his wife's jeweler to slush funds for other politicians. if you had the right connection you could get a deal. the fashion designer has his main retail showroom on a street in a row like madison avenue or fifth avenue, recently became known he was paying a couple hundred dollars a year for rent when everyone else was paying $600, he knew a cardinal was a friend to cut in the deal, that is the way the vatican has been operating for years. and the answer to the question is could we open up an account? know unless we have the right connection. >> host: how cooperative if at all was the vatican in your research? >> guest: i would like to say they were cooperative but they were not. i asked for access to the secret archives, the private archives of the pope, where the world war
11:19 pm
ii business documents are about the vatican bank and the bishop of miami lobby on my behalf for access and a bishop in washington, lobbied on my behalf but the bishop who runs the vatican archive said no. that forced me to do with the old-fashioned way. and did business with the vatican bank. and alliance, go into their files and private archives, pull of the transactions that have been done with rome 50 or 60 or 70, and called on the pope since publication of this book in los angeles times out that in march, ask for the pope to release bank's world war ii files and what files of the wartime pope, there was no response. when he came to america the washington post editorial said the same thing and there was no response which i am hopeful francis will not just be a reformer going back in the vatican bank history but also going forward.
11:20 pm
he can do that by releasing the bank's world war ii files. >> host: one of your former books, secret of the kingdom, the inside story of the saudi u.s. connection. how do you get the information? when you sign the book with a publisher you never know what the story is. i am doing lincoln's assassination, i pretty much know what the story is, a different narrative than many fine writers. a living subjects like the saudi royal family or vatican bank, i throw out to everybody, i read everything available on the subject, markdown names, not knowing whether they are alive or dead for an interview and narrow down my wish list of people i would like to interview. a lot of people say no or get what i call on the record formal interviews, and occasionally what happens in my profession is
11:21 pm
you meet somebody who after a couple meetings says take a liking to your have a beer one night or weekend talk, that opens the door and eventually they will say i know someone who worked for is a former auditor. i know somebody over here and you never know where that is. this book i am able to show for the first time on the record the vatican did business with insurance companies that word chairman, there might be somebody else who said they did business with arms manufacturers a pharmaceutical company. i did not have that door opening lead you end up pursuing the information you have. is this the absolute final word on the finances of the vatican? no but it is a thorough word on what i wanted to find out. >> host: here is the book, gerald posner is the author, "god's bankers," a history of money and power at the vatican. and we are watching -- you are watching, i should say, miami book fair here on booktv on c-span2.
11:22 pm
live coverage continues and in just a moment you will hear from a couple authors who happened to the former and current u.s. poet laureates and this panel will be beginning in just a minute. the current public laureate juan phili philipe, they will speak to the audiences and a few minutes here from the campus of miami dade college. after that, leonard pitts and july and we wioy and we will be booktv. we go to miami dade for live coverage. ♪ [inaudible conversations]
11:23 pm
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]nver
11:24 pm
[inaudible conversations]
11:25 pm
[inaudible conversations]
11:26 pm
[inaudible conversations]
11:27 pm
11:28 pm
[inaudible conversations]
11:29 pm
[inaudible conversations] . . [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
11:30 pm
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
11:31 pm
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. good afternoon. miami-dade college is delighted to host the 32nd miami book fair, and we are thrilled that you came out. and we are also thrilled to see the sun. let's give the sun a round of applause. [applause] 1st, we would like to thank all of our generous sponsors who helped make
11:32 pm
today possible. we also want to acknowledge our friends of the book fair. thank you for your continued support. and we invite all of you to become part of our circle of friends by connecting with us after the program. please, if you have not already, turn off your cell phone or any other gadget that may vibrate or distract us in any way. we also invite you to enjoy the program command i wouldi would like to welcome professor campbell mcgrath's, creative writing teacher at fiu. please join me in welcoming the professor. [applause] >> it is an honor to be here today to introduce not one but two poets laureate. juan felipe herrera, the current occupant of the post,post, k ryan who served
11:33 pm
as poet laureate from 2,008 to 2010. over the last dozen years or so the position has become ever more visible and prominent helping poetry expand its narrow toehold in american cultural life, and i, and i do not think it is any accident that this increase in relevance has coincided with a long awaited extension of that diversity. i don't just mean diversity in the common social aspects of gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality command even language, but more to the.diversity of poetics. not that long ago the poet laureate was pretty much guaranteed to be a boring old white guy in the blue blazer. and he was pretty much guaranteed to write poetry in a manner approved by the editors of the northern anthology. thankfully we are in no such danger today.
11:34 pm
certainly it is true that k ryan sligh thunder poems of must the model of emily dickinson while juan felipe herrera's vast wide-ranging bodywork belongs to the lineage of whatwalt whitman, but these two laureates share a gift for poetry that is engaging, entertaining, populist commence aversive. neither emerge economical tradition, employ jargon come in either traffic and high blood poet it clichés. neither of them is a boring old white guy in a blue blazer. they are writers to seize control of the material of language, draped across the body of the worlds and tailor it to their own completely original purposes. let me tell you about how we are going to run the show today. ryan will come up and read for 20 minutes. then juan felipe herrera will do the same.
11:35 pm
i we will come up in the middle to get in the way. after that, we will sit here on stage until they kick us out of 430 and get questions from you guys and let the poet laureates respond to them. so now or read a quick introduction. ryan will read 1st, author of nine books of poetry including her latest, erratic facts enter volume of new and selected poems for which he received the pulitzer prize of 2011. actually, let me back it up. i should introduce juan felipe a first. juan felipe herrera is a lifelong californian, the trial of chicano farm workers farmworkers in the san joaquin valley, has lived all across the state and a life dedicateda life dedicated to literature, teaching, activism, and the promulgation of mexican american culture. he has won awards for children's books, the latest of which has just been published and received the
11:36 pm
national book critics circle award for poetry in 2,008 for his knew and selected poems half the world alight. his dozen books of poetry _has much to the tradition of modernism as i do to the spoken word come as much of the 20th century as the 21st century and has been described by the new york times is wildly inventive and always unpredictable. k ryan is the author of nine books of poetry and erratic facts or nurse and the pulitzer prize-winning volume the best of it. the possibility compared to the work of george herbert and marion more to cornell boxes and postmodern word puzzles and also to freshly made cocktails. received fellowships at a national humanities medal. a lifelong californian she
11:37 pm
taught for many years in a community college. [applause] >> thank you,, campbell. i am so glad to not be an old white man. it is hard enough being a white woman. well, somebody has got to do it. it is delightful to be at a community college and such a grand one is this. i am very happy to read. my hotel, there were some really good cuban music last night. i ought to let music influence my reading a little bit. it has an ever graph from
11:38 pm
something i heard on npr. this biographer of thelonious monk said in practice it took 45 minutes to hit his stride. it was hard for month appointment. i love that. it may be that monk is always playing month. down the hall. there are long corridors, as in the school. monk must approach himself, join himself at the bench, and sit a while. then slipped his hand into his hands monk style. . .
11:39 pm
i thought i would follow that with a poem called an instrument with keys. stick with the piano. what i'm really talking about his memory. i have extremely peculiar memory. and i have written a lot of poems about memory them although i don't remember it. so i always start fresh. sophistic called an instrument with keys. as though memory were not a history but an instrument of keys on which no see list a plate. as though memory were a large orchestra without a repertoire. whereupon it remembered all of chopin.
11:40 pm
you don't want to clap every time because there will be a a time when you don't want to clap and then you'll be torn. i think you should just not do it. you see are sticking with this. is a little martha stewart and me. i wondered this line of thought, what it came from the thrill of removal that when things are taken away and the kind of exhilaration that produces. this is called musical chairs, of course.
11:41 pm
only one is musical. the others are ordinary mostly from the kitchen. not a peep of music. the managements, banishment. [laughter] i would hate to have to be severe with you. this is called brief. it's hilarious. no, this is the one. this is not the graph that i think is touching.
11:42 pm
the router versus he did not live in conventional order from day-to-day but grew strong or weak like the wind. so this is called brief real friends. creatures whose habits match nothing we understand are on trackable that is a ridiculous thing to say, is it not? i'm shameless. creatures whose habits match nothing we understand on trackable air, sea, and land. there will be moments things will be in italics.
11:43 pm
i'll tell my head. and you'll no i'm reading caps on place. creatures whose habits match nothing we understand on trackable by our most implacable trackers of air, sea, and land. as the conjured by conditions as though conditions fretted something to existence and larger arrangements in the trackers regret this is real things in real places. now, i iplaces. now, i so distracted you, so distracted you that i have to read it again because you have no idea what you just heard. okay. all right. the faster this time.
11:44 pm
creatures whose habits match nothing we understand on trackable by our most implacable trackers of air, sea, and land. the conjured by convicts -- conditions as the consolation spread something to existence they regret this, produce brief real things in real places. you think if you clap i won't read it again. well, it worked. this is called homage to joseph brodsky, a writer, a great poet, but i have never really been able to read his poems because they are actually in russian. the translations are somewhat baffling. i adore his essay. some of you may know his beautiful books of essays. anyhow, homage to joseph brodsky.
11:45 pm
one need not smoke to help. one need not smoke to inhale thethe air and bars holds its load of jars and still suspension. also jails. jails are present for the person who will pour smoke. i hate to have to.all these things out,out, but it is funny to say that is jails a present. i think. i'm trying to suggest to you that there are private amusement i would like to public a possible. one need not smoke to inhale. year and bars holds its load of jars and still suspension. also jails, jails are present for the person who of course smoke. but happily gorgeous .-dot
11:46 pm
also hangs around like that. you can walk through the mist and contact exists. i don't have many talk poems. i was asked to substitute for mary oliver in colorado, a great victory. just published a book of dog poems. i will have to try to scrape some dog poems together. mary and dizziness. i did read this poem. most of my poems use them to
11:47 pm
a not so nice. but this one is pretty dog. fool's errand. the thing cannot be delivered enough times. for whom there are no fools errands. to list out and come back is good all alone. it is greatly to carry a ball or bone. now, a little equal time. this goes back to my desert heritage central valley. they both have that in common. they turned out very differently. the pause the, and this describing the movement of water. the 1st trickle of water -- water down a dry ditch
11:48 pm
sketches like the path. slightly tucked at the front , unambitious about arguing what it may sink later, but it hasn't yet. have you seen water do that? why really like is the word arguing. unambitious about arguing what. arguing, of course, means for telling are predicting, but it also gives you the sense of an auger. appointed sharp object which could be related. oh,zero, i thought i would read this poem even though i shouldn't. it's called venice. it reveals too much about me. it's ammunition for certain
11:49 pm
people. you know? that shows my own culpability and my general aversion to stimulation. think about venice and all the stimulation there and then think about miami home feeling. there is a category of person eased by constraint, sous when things cease. it is the assault of abundance from which they seek release. the gorgeous intensities of venice would work best for these people at a distance. sitting, for example, in a departing train car feeling the minnesota.
11:50 pm
i want to read this one because i love the epigraph. this is an epigraph from montaigne. montaigne said, let the poet's voice lose all its measuring joints, it's character will not be changed by this. even the fragments will be beautiful. i hope he's right. so this is called dragon's teeth. probably most of you now, but in the -- there is a greek myth in which a dragon was killed, and the teeth of the dragon when sown in the ground produce soldiers. really a very nice thing in a way. if they are your soldiers. so this is called dragon's teeth. a small wallet of dragon's teeth is so potent that one
11:51 pm
wonders why forces are raised any other way. the seller has a couple of soldiers in under a day. nonetheless interest in pockets of these pointed seeds stays unaccountably low across the many fields where they would grow. there is something i learned from wikipedia. the main difficulty of waterwheels was there in separability from water. so this is the main difficulty of waterwheels. there are machines of great generative power that can only work locally for one reason or another.
11:52 pm
the great fixed wheels moved by water cannot be moved from water. it hurts to think of anything wrenched out of work works. but not just for the work. those buckets trenching the river, all the ornaments of torque. this poem is called my kingdom for horse. you can think of the king. i guess in the field of battle. billy needing a horse. okay. my kingdom for horse. the kingdom is already grown abstract. no one with an actual kingdom suggests a trait like that.
11:53 pm
they can, of course, have been so rapid that you still don't know. we have to hope your voice will prove the final property to go. of the ancestral timber the last redoubt, still ringing of your great states. the loneliest page of any one of which would race to get a horse to get you out. i ran into somebody before this reading, and she mentioned this poem. and so i'm changing my reading. this is called eggs. very short. eggs. and then i will read one more and be done. we turn out as to be as eggs
11:54 pm
legs are an illusion. we are held as in a carton if someone loves us. it is a pity. only loss process. something i get a kick out of venice, and i don't know if i knew it when i wrote it, but i noticed it. i just don't know. the reverse sound. gives me a big kick. i'll read again. we turn out as to his acts. legs are illusion. they are held as in the carton if someone loves us. it is a pity only loss process. a highly optimistic poem in an abstract sense.
11:55 pm
this is called why explain the precise by way of the less precise which is kind of an irritable question posed by the biographer. why explain the precise by way of the less precise? okay. i'm going to answer that. zero, i have to tell you, this is the word nap and it is the thing that you do to arrowheads. okay. it is not seem right to think blonde blows could do a thing like that. we do net arrowheads enough of rocks. so maybe it is possible that some kind of edge could result from generalized
11:56 pm
impact large blasts. among those somehow more exact. thank you. [applause] >> i am regretting my own protocols. please help me welcome the poet laureate. [applause] >> thank you so much. because gus yes. so beautiful to be here. thank you so much, everybody. thank you for inviting me, inviting us, and doing a great book festival here in miami. florida. big old hand for everybody
11:57 pm
here. [applause] how beautiful it is. and really, a lot of beautiful culture here and a lot of stories here, a lot of poetry. i was talking to the taxi driver. i asked him. i really wanted to know the life of a little player, gordimer whatever it is that makes it beautiful. spicy and sultry and peppery. and he said, no, i'm talking about we'd up. made out of steel or metal. and so i learned a lot in taxes. i am so glad i learned a lot
11:58 pm
the music,music, i want to learn more music, much more. thanks again. this is a piece from assemblies. you know, people talk about migration, migrants, he got this. it is kind of falling apart because we are all migrating. they are all scrambling. we are all moving without really knowing whether we will make it. we don't know where to go. surprise at every moment. very big, as you know, an incredible thing. letters between countries. so the term migrant is
11:59 pm
receiving. and perhaps that is why it's a good thing. reflect on this condition, the human condition, being blown out where you live and where your life used to be your family, everything command all of a sudden this broken trail with no end in sight and hopefully you'll find a place. now, sometimes people do not want you to come in. this is called board of us. and talks about this. in this case it is a voice of two women who have already been detained. and the buses not being -- it is not wanted to enter the site where the detention
12:00 am
center is. so i can't imagine a more terrible situation. in spanish and english. barely going? speak in english of the guard is going to come. where are we going? speaking english regard is going to get us. but what did we do? speaking english. come on. >> ii just know a few words. >> you better figure it out. the guard is right there. so many days and we did not even no where we were headed. i know where we are going. some detention center.
12:01 am
some warehouse after warehouse. but they already question us. wequestioned us. we already crossed over. they already grabbed us. what more do they want? that is all. where we going? i'm telling you. i came from under us. where we going to sleep? i don't want to talk about it. tell them that you came from nowhere, i came from nowhere , we crossed the border from nowhere. you and me and everybody else here is on a bus to
12:02 am
nowhere. you got it? [speaking in native tongue] that that's why we came, to leave all that nothing behind. the bus stops. there will be more nothing. we are here. [speaking in native tongue] those people, who are they? they don't want the bus to keep going, they don't want us to keep going.going. how they are blocking the bus. what do we do? >> what?
12:03 am
[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> zero, yes. [speaking in native tongue] brownsville. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] it took me 47 days to get here. forty-five days of under us. the coyotes.
12:04 am
you know what they did right there in front of us. what were we supposed to do? and the trains, nothing. writing on trains of thousands. here me? thousands. and they slip from the rooftops of the desert of arizona and texas, thirst and hunger, thirst and hunger, two things, thirst and hunger, day after day. and now here i come. and now here on this bus. i come from brownsville with a titus up and still the border lies ahead of us.
12:05 am
>> i told you to speak in english. the guard is going to think we are doing something. people are screaming outside. i want to push the bus back. [speaking in native tongue] but where do we go? that's why i'm here. they broke my father's legs, gangs killed my son. i just want to be together, us. so many years old apart. [speaking in native tongue] >> my mother told me that the most important thing is freedom. kindness and doing good for others.
12:06 am
[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] freedom comes from deep inside, all the pain of the world lives there. the 2nd we close the pain from our guts we shall be free and in that moment we have to fill ourselves up with all the pains of wrong beings, to free them, all of them. the guard is coming. well, now what?
12:07 am
maybe they will take us to another detention center. eat come out before, blanket, toilets, water, each other a while. [speaking in native tongue] we are nothing command we come from nothing. thatthat nothing is everything if you feel it with love. we are everything. because we come from everything. [applause] thank you so much. thank you so much. and if the man with the chokehold, and if the man with the chokehold pulls a standing man down why does
12:08 am
he live? and if the dead man is gone what is your eyes? and why is there clicking sound, the sound the soul makes when it leaves? and if the woman stays why is she the crucible of fire all white issue the voice and if the voices never heard why does it resound for nine generations point even if it was a teen with a swagger why is he still prone? the governor spoke on both facing the masses, why they still scorched with thirst. if we march why does the street divine. take my water. if all laws of freedom for you for me why do we not speak? and if the tree stands behind you green the last two limbs of swollen the blood why does it not suffer.
12:09 am
why does it blossom. this is from my 1st book. let me tell you, it was so much fun to write this book. because just coming out all burly and nectar he and tie-dyed out and filled with aspect words trying to unite all the nations and put all latin america together back again like humpty dumpty latino latina. and this is what the poem sounded like. a lot of long hair and a big guitar. this is what they sounded like. and i'm going to choose one that is back here. there is no title here. they are just coming out of things. titles gotten the way. no page numbers because pays number start us down.
12:10 am
you don't really want to read the page number when you read the poem. i have it they're anyway? too much ink. and the criminals -- they were given a special day on the book. people say how come you are using paper? a timeterm we want to use for all of latin america united. all of it into one nation. one heart, one earth. read burning rain, rain, jewel rising polling it's on: you like. blake blazing acres soulless sons and ripples on us. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] nude and naked.
12:11 am
[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] the red dawn of blazing heart. [speaking in native tongue] one people. [speaking in native tongue] celestial earth and song. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue]
12:12 am
thank you so much. >> are your microphones -- >> let's see. is it on? zero, great. i no that both really want to talk to the audience. here what you guys have to ask them. yet to that microphone it would be easiest.
12:13 am
think about that.that. in the meantime i will start off of the question. anytime i encounter the lord of poet laureate i am reminded of shelley's famous thought that poets of the unacknowledged legislators of the world. you guys have both now been in dc of their. >> legislating. >> the poet laureate's office is actually in the library of congress right on capitol hill thanks to the supreme court. i wonder, if not show his grandiose vision what do you see the role of poetry in the public sphere?
12:14 am
>> the readings in her reflections. all awards. to bring the foam as far as possible and to include the voices and lives. >> that's the kind of thing is sitting laureate says. >> you imagined utopian. >> a moment of solidarity. really tell our truths. stories, lies.
12:15 am
shannon, not bury them, not ignore them, not deny them that's what it was about. >> i loved your poetry. when you read the poem immigration lawyer never heard the story many times. it explains tells the story. the immigrants. so many problems. that's a big problem. it seems that the republican are very anti- immigrant.
12:16 am
all the immigration lawyers and everyone else who is in favor of immigration, immigration gets a bad so many republicans and the fox news people using immigrant and criminal the simpsons. and i grieve campbell. >> that was not my personal assertion of belief. you are commending the poem which i agree entirely. just checking to make sure.
12:17 am
>> thank you very much. english and spanish. let the poem being one of the other. and also just in your role as poet laureate and the multiple languages o'malley recognize them as american language just english and spanish with all the other and whether poetry has a function in that education of that recognition.
12:18 am
very specifically whether you think the poem should always be in both english and spanish so that the english only reader can understand the poem, just not reading the spanish parts of whether you think that at some point we can just write in both english and spanish. >> you know, thank you. speak many languages in use many musics to express ourselves. when we get interviews. get all poetic, hanging out. there's a lot of music and ways of speaking a speech. of course there is language. let'slet's let them all flow. the thought them all flow. let us take the feathers off as much as possible. just too many feathers puttering around.
12:19 am
and you know it is good to be free. it is what it is all about. poetry is a free space, free zone. just and encouragement. and encouragement for all of us to free up especially language. when we choke a language rich of your people. we choke a language we are choking an entire people command entire history. just choking up. even if it is just one word, another language, even if you don't speak that language, get that word and put it in their. free it upfree it up a little bit. given a little milk. a little water. it's a good thing. free up our languages and free up our peoples by using as much language and language art as possible. not easy to do, and you did a wonderful job. both of the languages were kind of simultaneously present, not know way that
12:20 am
made it clear. it is a hard trick to pull off. another question. >> thank you. >> i really enjoyed the readings. but on the same lines about multilingual, i am a mother of many other. raising kids that are multilingual actually speak spanglish, and it is very -- i really appreciate what you are doing, mr. herrera. i no you're also working in creative roles for these children who are overseen. they struggle a lot to find books of quality and spanish year in the united states. i live here in south florida. i come every year with my kids just to get a chance to get good quality books in
12:21 am
spanish for them to practice their skills in spanish. and i just wondered what is happening. you know, here we are in a nation that many people speak other languages. i don't see it as a handicap. they see it is a wonderful opportunity for many people to raise the kids multilingual, not only in spanish but you can teach the many languages. maybe support and i know i'm not the only one to really support more. thank you so much. >> do you know anything about that? >> a specific initiative that would be equitable? >> you know, there is the day of the children.
12:22 am
pat mora is one of the great promoters of that, also a children's book writer. and she does a day of the children, bilingual books, and it is not necessarily in every city. we promote it in our local community. the day of the children is one way to go about it. and also remember that you are the initiative. everyone here is the initiative. so as you feel that that is important in your online i now, you feel it is a good cause to open up the doors for children's books and multilingual children's books, if you believe in and feel it and can sense it right now, than get yourselves going and find ways, create small groups. you know how good you guys are. you guys are fabulous. ..
12:23 am
wth an interesting case study lieve sh because one with curly f constraint and a political decision and what it was for bubbliciousre pros more freedomo discuss some of the pros andsome cons for being a poet laureate.g i noticed some sarcasm in some o of her comments earlier about being in a position.ry, you i want her to explore the. libet
12:24 am
this is a very, certainly if yoe guys say this liberates you but u'll be you write something that very offensive you giunta a lot of political pressure, you getbili. called a step down or blue suree credibility. representing the government and being a representative of the government that does all the things that it does -- >> yeah, that's an excellent question, and i know that these guys have strong feelings. >> juan and i were actually talking about that a little bit. when i was invited to be the poet laureate, george bush was the president. and i was very reluctant to say yes to the position because i thought i don't want any part in this government. and i had to think that over. and what i thought, what i decided -- first of all, it is not a government position. i mean, it is, you are, you are paid not by the president or not by a political party or anything like that, you are an agent of
12:25 am
the library of congress. your check comes from the library of congress. your office is in the library of congress, and it is not one political party or another, and it is not -- doesn't represent the presidency. be -- thank god. [laughter] but i also felt, i thought about it, and i thought should -- is it a good thing to have, to have, to be dissuaded from accepting a position, from advocating for poetry, for representing poetry, for embodying poetry because, because of political oppression? because of distaste in that way? and i thought really it would have sort of been letting, letting them win to not take position. and that it was an act of freedom and assertion in the
12:26 am
power of poetry to go ahead and to do it and to be as free as i was. and being as free as i was -- although you did call me sarcastic -- [laughter] was to be the eccentric person that i am and to embody the fact that, you know what? poets are only who they are. they aren't -- they can't become some artificial person or some ambassador exclusively. they are these strange people who stayed home a lot and wrote, you know? [laughter] and now find themselves in this weirdly public position. [applause] >> that's well said. extremely well said. [laughter] that's well said. and it's a great question. you know, for me it's putting -- i agree with kay, and my focus is stepping aside from my biases. my focus is stepping aside from my biases and kind of crackling
12:27 am
into a new self. as i really have -- i'm changing as i move along. because i'm in more communities, and i'm listening to more stories. young people come up to me and ask me about what shall i do with my manuscript? young latinas ask me, you know, well, you know, i feel some microaggressions on this campus, and i, you know, can you tell, can you help me? and on and on. or simply this is my poetry book, this is what i'm doing, or i meet young teachers who are totally ecstatic, they're just great, raring to go, they just love teaching, and i meet them, and they just pour all these shovels of inspiration on me. i go, oh, she's just so inspired. she's a brand new teacher, and. >> e wants to give, you know, work with her students.
12:28 am
and i go all right, you know? i'm inspired, and i'm ready to go to the next place. but it's about putting aside my biases and my old severals and being -- selfs and being open. it's very challenging, but it's a good challenge. it's a challenge i want to face. >> did either of you ever feel -- i think part of the question implied there was kind of an official constraint in the job. did you feel constrained in your writing or in your ability to represent literature? >> i think one of the things that happened is it really takes your time. i mean, you are distracted from writing, and i think for the period of time that you're the laureate you're pretty much busy hoofing it around. and the one thing i felt was i think juan and i are very different in this. juan is much more socially engaged than i ever was. and i never particularly thought -- and sort of i'm kind of the poster child for poetry
12:29 am
not being a helping profession. i don't, i don't think of it as a helping profession. [laughter] and, therefore, i sort of embodied that. and there is a certain amount of pressure exerted by the library of congress or for the high brain of -- librarian of congress to do something socially useful. and i'm very concerned about this confusion of social usefulness in poetry. i don't think it's inevitable. i don't think it's an automatic thing. i think it can be, but it doesn't -- absolutely doesn't need to be, doesn't have to be. so that's kind of an answer. >> well, you know, the shoulds are always a problem. so you're right. but, you know, for me it's growing up as a farm worker child and across california being kind of shut down in many ways and kind of just gaining all that steam and combustion for years and years and years, i just had to come on out sooner
12:30 am
or later. and i also noticed that many others wanted to speak also. so then my poetry became, because of my generation, became a vehicle for them and for you and also more me. i mean, it's -- for me. it's a circle. it's not this or that. but i love poetry in all its aspects. in its private aspects, experimental aspects, its public aspects and its rugged, bohemian, tie-dyed out aspects. >> another question. sorry to keep you waiting there. >> so a comment and a question. first, to pick up on the prior comment, the poem about the migrants is so beautiful not only because it seems to me it comes very naturally from you, but in the dialogue between the
12:31 am
two, it expresses something which one doesn't see often at all. in the news there are statistics, and even when a journalist interviews somebody, it's a question and an answer perhaps. whereas you're getting inside. and so in a very unique way, i think, you give voice to something that's hugely important to be given voice to even though it seems to me that you weren't intending to be socially useful. but it fulfills both those things beautifully and importantly, i think. and i have a question for kay, if i may. there's so much wonderful humor in each of your poems, i sort of want to get a little more of that by asking something like in
12:32 am
what other ways in your life other than the poetry the humor finds expression or if for some reason you couldn't have been a poet, what other forms might your personality as so beautifully expressed in the humor have taken or come out as? >> well, thank you, thank you for that. you know, when i was starting to write poetry, i felt constrained by the fact that humor really budget seen as a -- wasn't seen as a legitimate form of poetry at the time. there was no rhyme, and there was no humor. and i was very interested in sounds and humor and wit. i mean, wit in the larger sense of, you know, the gray cells. and i was reluctant to be a poet because i didn't, i didn't think
12:33 am
that i could find a way to write that had a prayer of success. i actually would have liked to have been a stand-up comedian. [laughter] but i didn't really have the character for it. i mean, i'm not public enough. so it really wouldn't have suited me. but there is, there is that in me. >> we have one more question. >> good afternoon and thank you. this is a two-pronged question. my worst -- first question is how you were introduced to poetry, what were your introductions to poetry and, second, this is a concern as an educator. there's a crisis in some, maybe all public school systems across the u.s. some schools don't have a fully-equipped school library or one at all. and that's not to say that the teachers aren't using quality
12:34 am
literature in the classroom, but perhaps some teachers k-12 don't teach poet tally at all. and so i'm wondering how they, students, in their primary years, maybe some even in their high school years -- i'm hoping they're being introduced to poetry at that time -- are being introduced to poetry. so perhaps for part two you might share some of your strategies as to how, and this might be some grandiose vision that you have of how young people can be introduced to poetry. so, first, your introductions and, secondly, what we might do, educators and families have their own rule in the home -- role in the home, and that's another issue, literacy in the home, about how we can get poetry -- >> you're absolutely right, poetry has been extremely drastically reduced in the standard curriculum in public schools steadilyover the last -- steadily over the last hundred
12:35 am
years, the diminished of poetry. but anyway, let me put it to our poet laureates what your, a, your own kind of genesis as a poet or how poetry maybe entered your life and then what are some thoughts how to keep it vie broont with especially -- vibrant with especially kids who may not get exposure to it? >> you know, i'll answer briefly. i had almost no exposure to poetry as a child. and i, i don't feel dismal about these things. i think there are appetites in us, and sensitivities. there is in us something that wants something, and it keeps seeking for it until it finds it. and you don't have to necessarily be presented with it as a child. i mean, of course, it would be vastly superior if we were, we were rained with poetry. but i think that a certain kind of mind will, will have to have
12:36 am
it and will find it and will always seek it. i mean, like, in my childhood i just liked the way people used language. i was always listening for the word that i hadn't heard or the strange expression. i remember a student said -- i was a kid, and somebody said dow don't have to -- you don't have to broadcast it. and i thought, oh, my god, what a beautiful thing to say. [laughter] you don't have to broadcast it. i was a loudmouth, apparently. but i think the sensitive man acquires language, acquires -- sensitive mind acquires language, acquires a great trove of potential, and it doesn't frighten me that things aren't perhaps at one moment or another not going well. >> and do you believe that crosses all economic boundaries, all types of demographics? >> do i think that's happening everywhere? >> yes. you're saying that the mind
12:37 am
wants to -- >> oh, yeah. i mean, i think it's so unpredictable, particularly in community colleges which is where i spent my lifetime teaching remedial english. you absolutely don't know who's where. i mean, such promise, such surprises come out of the most unlikely places. and poets are always coming from weird spots. they never come, they never come from where they're supposed to, and they usually have a story of not having been particularly encouraged. >> that makes a lot of sense. i can, i can definitely relate to that, you know? i never even took a poetry class, you know, until i was in the workshop later on, but that was a workshop. i didn't even know what that was. >> yeah. >> i just kind of -- there i was all of a sudden. but you said you liked the word "broadcast," and that's how it works. you know, i like to do a lot of, with middle schoolers and high schoolers, i like to do, i've used a million phrases for it,
12:38 am
but it's up to like a word-a word-a-thon. because, you know, it's hard to get the words out. it's kind of, okay, well, what am i going to write, you know, therefore? how do i start, you know? so i'll create two lines of students with little pieces of paper and a pencil and the line in the middle that everybody has to walk slowly through til they get to the other side and then join the lines. and as they walk through the external lines, the twor very tight lines, shoulder to shoulder like a tunnel, like a gauntlet, everyone and's having a conversation with everybody else. like if i'm facing you on the line, hey, how you doing? amazing, wow, could you believe that reading? what happened? i don't know, it was like orange and red and blue and wild. but everybody's doing that, and the person who is walking by is just listening and taking words that they like and adding words that come to them as they note these words that they like while
12:39 am
they're moving. so i think physical movement, word-a-thon or just a lot of conversations flying across the brains and ears of young peoples. and they're taking them down because it's okay, you can take them down, and then add your own words. and everybody does it, and everybody completes it, everybody's successful. and when they read them, they're wild poems. and there's no failer in that project. be -- i also want to do that with sports. so as they're kicking the soccer ball, they're yelling out words and picking up words. so we have movement and games and language. and also when i was in new york city, i noticed these two young -- three young children like, you know, they were, like, doing homework very seriously with their headphones on. and i says, oh, yeah, music. you've got to have music just flashing through your brain now these days, this generation. music flashes through your
12:40 am
brain. so while you do things. so i would recommend put on headphones and write. [laughter] i think that's going to be a lot of fun. i tried it the other day, it was fabulous. so those are ideas for you. [applause] >> please join me in thanking our wonderful panel for a delightful conversation. [applause] >> we have another session beginning at 5:00. we ask that you, please, exit to the left. thank you. [inaudible conversations]
12:41 am
[inaudible conversations] >> and as the moderator just said, there is one more panel coming from miami-dade college here in miami, and that's going to be leonard pitts and joy-ann reid, and that will begin in about ten minutes or so. you know what? we've got about ten minutes, we're going to introduce you to somebody you probably have seen before in our coverage here in a minute, and but we also want to hear from you. what have you seen this weekend? what are you reading?
12:42 am
what would you like to see on booktv? this is kind of a booktv-centric open phones segment. 748-8200, remember, the area corrode is 202. 742-8201, and we're also going to put the text message number as well, and you'll see that. that's only for text messages, and you can text that to us, and we'll try to get to those as much as possible. but in the meantime, we're going to introduce you to somebody. now, if you've watched us over the many, many years that we have covered the miami book fair, if you watched -- you've watched us, you've seen this gentleman. this is mitch kaplan. he is the founder, chairman of the board of the miami book fair, he's also the own or of books and books. mr. kaplan, where'd you come up with the idea for this fair? >> guest: well, peter, first of all, before i answer that question, i just want to tell you how thrilled we are to have you here once again. it's been too many years to even remember how many years that you've been coming and covering
12:43 am
beautifully the miami book fair, and we thank you for it. the miami book fair came together as an idea from dr. eduardo padron who's the president of miami-dade college, and he called a number of us very young booksellers about 34 years ago. he called us together and said in the old mickey rooney way, let's put on a book fair. and the whole idea was to bring interest to miami again, because miami in the early '80s was a place that was suffering. the boat lift had just happened, there was a lot of economic downturn here. we had just come out of a period of a lot of racial strife. and so the idea was to create a festival about ideas, about books, about things that are very essential in people's lives that would incorporate and would thread together the entire
12:44 am
community. we wanted to create a big tent under which all the disparate parts of miami -- which is one of the most diverse communities in the country -- could all feel comfortable under. and that was the genesis of the miami book fair. so in the very first year, i was a two- it was a two-day festival, and we had about 75 or 100 authors, and it worked. people came. and people felt very good about it. people in miami felt very good about it. and they wandered downtown, they strolled the streets, they did all of these things. and it gave us the impetus to go on and expand it, change it. but the whole notion of the big tent is something under -- the notion of the big tent is something that has never changed. the idea that we want to reflect the diversity that is miami, being the kind of city that it really is. and that's basically been the driving force behind what we've done all these years.
12:45 am
but it is -- i always call it miami-dade college's gift to miami. >> host: and we are on the campus of miami-dade college -- >> guest: we are, indeed. >> host: using their facilities. >> guest: well, miami-dade college is the largest country in the college. miami-dade's college has over 160,000 students. this is only one of the, i think, close to 11 campuses that miami-dade college has. it may even be more than that. but it's at least 11 campuses. and so it provides amazing opportunities for students here in dade county. they have an honors college, for instance, where kids who are in the honors college, they spend two years here, they're then recruited by colleges like harvard and yale and smith, and you can start off here if, you know, if you're not wealthy, if you're an immigrant, if you don't have a lot of money, this is a place in which you can feel like you can get a really great education as well. >> host: mitch kaplan, this
12:46 am
year's book fair, how many authors, how many attendees? give us a snapshot. >> guest: well, we have over 600 authors this year. out of those 600 authors, i would say that, oh, maybe 40% of them, 50% of them, 60% of them are poets and fiction writers, people writing about water, rain, global warming, other kinds of things. lots of different things. the other thing we do is we have invited the long list, the entire long list of the national book award folks were here this weekend in all the different categories. so they all presented. we have over 18 rooms going at one time with events happening in all of those rooms. so we present a huge cross-section of what's being published in a given year. >> host: now, i'm going to call
12:47 am
you out here because you came over to chat with me, and we weren't going to talk about this, but i want to make sure to correct the record. you saw something in the peggy noonan be interview that we did yesterday -- >> guest: right. >> host: -- that i said that you said, peter, you know what? you were wrong. >> guest: well, you know, to tell you how crazy i am, i mean, i'm here all day helping to run the book fair, and then when i go home at mid night i watch you guys all over again. [laughter] because one of the ironies to help run a book fair is you don't get to see very many events. so i saw your interview with peggy noonan who's a charming, charming woman who gave an amazing event in chapman, and then i heard you engage her in a conversation and tell her that this book fair doesn't invite very many conservative authors. and that just struck me as so wrong, because as the programmer of the book fair, i know that that, first of all, isn't the
12:48 am
case, and i know it's never our intention to be a political book fair. our intention is to present a broad cross-section of what's being published. and over the years we presented bill o'reilly, lou dobbs -- >> host: george w. bush. >> guest: we've had george w. bush. we've had his father. in the really early days before george bush, we had his father. dick cheney was here last year. we had -- marco rubio's been here: >> host: he was here last year, and booktv covered him. so i'm glad we had a chance to correct the record. >> guest: joe scarborough, judith miller, i could go on and on and on. because one thing i'm extremely -- the entire programming group is extremely sensitive about is this idea of representing miami. and what we always say is it's
12:49 am
something for everyone. we have no agenda. we want to present the best of the best and have everyone feel like this is their book fair no matter who they are, no matter what their political stripe is. >> host: well, i'm glad we had the chance to correct the record. you mentioned miami and the importance of it being held here, mitch kaplan. what's a book you would recommend as a bookstore owner and a longtime resident about miami? >> guest: that's a great question. there's a number of really good books written about miami. there is one by an author that you had on earlier, gerald posner, called miami babylon. doesn't sound as severe as it is, but it gives a history of miami. there's another fabulous book by an author named t.d.alman who you probably had at one time called miami: city of the future. there's one by david reef called going to miami.
12:50 am
there's one called saving miami beach which talks about the growth of miami beach and what's happened with it. there's also some remarkable, there's joan didion's book called miami. [laughter] there's fiction about miami that is more true to form about miami at one time. for instance, there's a marvelous, marvelous fiction writer named charlie wilford who wrote a book called miami blues. elmore leonard wrote a book called la br, ava -- >> host: what about if somebody reads -- >> guest: i was just getting to carl. >> host: were you? >> guest: carl you yet, with carl you get a flavor of the extreme of what miami can be and what it can do. there's also another book by a guy named les standford, and les has given you, basically, a history of henry flagler and how
12:51 am
miami came to be. and now there's a new book out by a woman on george merrick, one of the founders of miami, and carl gables -- and coral gables. she founded coral gables. her name is parks. and she's a remarkable historian. so there is quite a library of books about miami that suits everyone's taste as well. >> host: well, this is the first time we've moved our set out here to the main intersection -- >> guest: and you can feel the humidity of miami. >> host: you can feel the humidity of miami right now, but what do you think of the location? what do you think of the backdrop? >> guest: i think this is perfect. i think to have you among the people who are coming here is a marvelous addition to what you've done. and i think the authors have appreciated it as well. because they're seen, they know that people will then see them on c-span later on, or they can turn their -- they can go to --
12:52 am
you're on >> host: dot-org as well. everything today and yesterday at the miami book fair is already available on our web site, mitch kaplan, thank you. as always, we appreciate your hosting us concern. >> guest: and if peggy's listening, we can reassure her not to worry -- [laughter] that she's invited back and other conservatives will be coming back too. [laughter] >> host: and we appreciate miami-dade's hospitality and your hospitality as well. >> guest: thank you, peter. >> host: look forward to seeing you next year. >> guest: and thank you for doing the call-in. i happen to love watching that myself. >> host: well, you know what? we do have a call, a couple calls on the line, but let's start with hugh in ashland, virginia. hugh, what have you seen this weekend? what are you reading? what do you want to talk about for booktv? >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call.
12:53 am
i'm having such a wonderful venue, i enjoy the book fairs as you travel around the country, and it really gives people a flavor of the cities that you visit and the authors that come there. such an educational opportunity. you don't get anywhere else, especially being able to pull this stuff up from the archives. it's just phenomenal. i'm not currently reading anything, i'm just enjoying watching book span and seeing all the wonderful guests, but i do have a suggestion for upcoming venues and shows, and that would be to do more books, authors writing about spirituality, creativity and science. they're all blending, and it can be something that can manifest a future and the present if we can really work with these technologies and raise the consciousness globally. i think that mr. kaplan is doing that beautiful with the miami
12:54 am
book fair, and i will leave a message for him after, and i just thank you both. and, again, for everything that's happening that's so beautiful. >> host: well, i will make sure to tell mr. kaplan that you had those kind words for him, and do you know what? we're going to have to go in just a minute. i want to get to a couple of the text messages. somebody's reading the devil's chessboard, and here is somebody who's reading a graphic novel, ben -- [inaudible] a graphic novel. he spoke at a previous year's miami book fair. please air this or invite him back. mitch kaplan, graphic novels. have they become more and more of a part of a book fair and a part of -- >> guest: they have been exploding. under the direction of list set mendes who works with me on the marketing side of this, lisette has a particular interest and has always had a particular
12:55 am
interest in graphic novels. and i can remember the are first author we had was art spiegelman. and from art we then started finding that the market was growing and growing and growing. and we have one room dedicated purely to graphic novels. we have, this year we had the author of zippy, we have charles kochman who came from abrams who was the one who founded, who found the wimpy kid. and we have chip kidd and jon leg by sam mow has just written -- >> host: and he's speaking in this evening. >> guest: he'll be here in this evening. >> host: he won't be on booktv, he's one or two off from what we cover, as you know. >> guest: yeah. we also have the best american comics, the author of that who put that together. so graphic novels is now firmly ensconced at the miami book fair as well. >> host: all right. max in tallahassee, i think you're going to be the last
12:56 am
word. hi, max. >> caller: ing hi, how are y'all doing today? i've been reading, i'm reading a novel that is now 70 years old. i've read it three times x i'm reading it the fourth time, and that is ayn rand's the fountainhead. i think that is one of the most important books ever written. >> host: why do you think so? >> caller: well, i mean -- yeah, you can have, there's plenty of people who disagree with its premises, but i think that you just look at the legacy of people from -- i mean, i'll give you a good example. i heard p.j. o'rourke talking about him this morning, is bob dylan. i know he's not a bob dylan fan, but the fountainhead is all about the concept of individualism and the pursuit of one's own happiness and the pursuit of their own destiny, and if everyone read that novel, i think the world would be a
12:57 am
much happier place. >> host: thank you, sir. mitch kaplan, do you still sell at books and books ayn rand books? >> guest: we do, absolutely we do. >> host: and that was that -- >> guest: i couldn't hear him. i have nothing in my ears. >> host: sorry. fountainhead is what he's read, and he reads it over and over again. >> guest: sure. >> host: does that still sell in a bookstore at 70 years old? >> guest: it was written in the '40s, i believe -- >> host: right, yeah. >> guest: because the film came out around then. or am i thinking of something else? >> host: no, you got it. >> guest: i think it was in the '40s. there are certain authors that are read year in and year out. jack kerr back is one of those authors, iowan rabid is another -- ayn rand is another one of those authors. they speak to particular youth at a particular time in their lives, and the fountainhead does still sell quite, quite well. >> host: what are you currently reading? >> guest: i am currently, right
12:58 am
now, reading the book by -- it's, i'm late to it, but it's a marvelous book called "being mortal." and you've probably had -- it is a phenomenal book. >> host: and he has been on booktv. >> guest: i'm sure that he has. >> host: it's been a bestseller, so he has been on booktv, so you might follow mitch kaplan's recommendation for this book, or you can watch him on booktv. all right, mary buford, south carolina, 30 seconds left. go ahead, mary. >> caller: hi, i am mary, and i am currently reading divine hearing plus divine wealth equals a divine life. and i heard the gentleman say earlier that more books on spirituality should be offered, and this is what this writer writes about. all of her books is on
12:59 am
spirituality dealing with things that christians go through and how they can be encouraged to go through these things with faith and deliverance from the lord. >> host: thank you, mary in buford, south carolina. again, as a bookseller, spirituality books. do they do pretty well? that's what mary's reading. >> guest: it's one of the biggest, it's one to one of the strongest sections in most bookstores. we call it mind be/body/spirit. and, in fact be, we have an event going on today in the auditorium at 6:00 with brian weiss and lara lynn jackson who's written a book on aura and other lives, many lives, many mast ors, that sort of thing as well. so that market is very, very large. >> host: mitch kaplan, as
1:00 am
always, thanks for being our gracious host. than to >> host: mitch kaplan, as always thanks for being a our gracious host. thanks to miami-dade college and the president of miami-dade college for his graciousness as well. we appreciate it as always. >> guest: peter, thank you for being part of this. we would know what to do with israel if you guys were not here. so we thank you for being part of it all. >> host: all right. one more life panel from this years miami -- before i turn to the panel of