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tv   Book Discussion on Chasing the Scream  CSPAN  March 31, 2015 9:22pm-10:40pm EDT

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the special war problems division. and this was a very special war problem and there really was a game of chess, you know and the japanese and german had their chests and we had ours. >> one question, i grew up in texas and there was a world war ii prison work camp and several of the people who were interned ultimately ended up living there marrying women integrating into the community. did any of that happen in this? >> absolutely. >> do any of the internees to stay in crystal city?
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>> yes, they have reunions all the time and i would like to thank you especially everyone from crystal springs, my aunt and my mother's sister. all of you guys and it's great to see you, thank you so much. [applause] >> you are watching booktv on primetime. a reminder that every weekend booktv teachers 48 hours of nonfiction books beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern on saturday. we invite you to find and like
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us online at facebook.com/booktv. >> this weekend at c-span cities tour has partnered with cox mitigations to learn about the history and literary life of tulsa oklahoma. >> what we are most famous for is being very much more than that, he was born in 1912 in oklahoma and so we are very proud to have this back in oklahoma. he was an advocate for people, for those people who were migrant workers from oklahoma, kansas, texas, during this era, who have found themselves in california literally starving and he solved this because between them where the haves and the have-nots. >> he recorded very few songs of his own. we have a listening station that
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features 46 of the songs in his own voice and that is what makes the recordings part of it. >> join us this weekend on c-span2 and on c-span3. >> all this week booktv on primetime. coming up next, the history of the 100 year war on drugs around the world. three years 30000 miles to report on the story. sumac i'm super thrilled to be hosting the first talk to we've ever hosted for a book.
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[inaudible] [laughter] >> this blew my mind. [laughter] >> that is terribly exciting and finally i'm excited to have a book it says something a little bit knew about the drug war and we all know that the drug war is bad and awful. i don't need to tell you that. and you know that the drug war is bad and awful. and it's really excited and we are able to look at the history and look at where we are today, talk to people and go to places and figure out a way to tell this story in a way that makes us giving us a different lens an object on something that we know is horrible. and something that gives us a way to deal with it and create a better future and i'm terribly sorry. i'm glad you all came out. [applause] >> thank you for coming. when the war on drugs was being
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launched, the man who launched it said that there was one place in the world that proved more than any other that it was going to work. he said if you look at this place, it would prove that if you crack down hard enough and you'd you arrested enough people and if you are consistently passed many would disappear. that place was baltimore. how is that working out for you? and i feel like i should kind of apologize for something. and the only hitman made it out and they made it out from prison there. i went out into a jack-in-the-box. do you know what this is
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[inaudible] and i went in there and said can i have a quarter pounder with cheese. and she said to me what why. and i said can i have a quarter pounder with cheese and she said do you speak english. [laughter] and i said i people invented that. and i had to talk about this we had a lot of drug addiction and my family. a couple of relatives were not able to be a part of this. and there were loads of basic questions that i have been loading onto.
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why would drugs stand in the first place, why would they care about it if it wasn't working. and what were the alternatives? i realized that they talked about it in an abstract way. and so we are talking with loads of different people and their our scientist that are fitting them to see if they like them. to the only country in the world that has decriminalized this with results. the main thing that i took away
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is almost everything we think we know about the subject is wrong. drugs are not what we think they are. drug addiction is not what we think. the drug war is not what we have been told that it is and the alternative is not what they think that they are. and so they have the stories of real people whose lives were changed. and so just about five or six of the people that i have talked about in the book are part of this. one of them in 1939. and she sang a song called strange fruit. and she said to me that you have to understand how shocking this was. we have african american women standing in front of an audience in a hotel where she was not allowed to walk through the front door, she went through the side elevator singing a song against lynching. that night according to her biographer billie holliday received a threat and a warning
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from the federal euro of narcotics. they said to stop singing this song. the man who ran the bureau was a guy who is the most influential person and no one has ever heard of him he was the founder. he took over the department of prohibition just as alcohol prohibition was ending. he had to find a new purpose for his department and he was driven by two strong hatreds, one was the hatred about it and the other was the hatred of african-americans. this was a guy regarded as a crazy racist by the crazy racist of the 1930s and he was the and -- he used the n-word. billie holiday was everything he hated with an african-american woman standing up it was a heroin addict, it he got that jazz was the kind of mongrel evil music that is a sign of
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chaos and he would write these memos where he would listen to the lyrics like he thinks he can walk across the ocean and that is what they do think when they use the drug heroin. but billy grew up surrounded by the smell of burning feces. she grew up in something you're a town. and billie holiday learn something. she made herself a promise. she was not allowed in a lot of stores because she was an african-american, should should never bow her head to any white man. she gets this threat and says in effect that screw you, i will sing my song, i will do what i want, and that is the point at which they began. they hated employing african-americans and they had a rule that they would be part of this organization and it was hard to send a white guy to stop
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billie holiday. so they employed a man called jimmy fletcher. and she sent them to prison. she said you needed a license to perform anywhere and they would not give it to her and they said what is the coolest things you can do to a person is to take away the thing that you love and that includes ads all over the world today. -- he said they're never going to work again, they have a criminal record area and when
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she was in the early 40s, she was taken to a hospital and they said they are going to kill me in there, don't let them. in a hospital she's diagnosed with liver cancer and they arrest her on a hospital bed. the last minute was still alive in that room eugene, he was an incredible man. they take away the candies and toys and everything that she has. she goes and she hasn't got any heroine. so she starts to recover. ten days later they cut the methadone and she dies. one of her friends that she had been violently wrenched from my. but she insisted on singing her song. she would go anywhere that they would have her no matter what they did. she always saying.
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it helped me to think about the addicts in my life. and it really helped me to know that the addicts can be heroes her friend said that billie holiday was a week, she was a strong she can be. and i wanted to understand how those dynamics continued through today. and there was one individual named chino hardin. his mother who was a crack addict was raped by an lapd officer who was his father. he was a child of the drug war in the purest sense. his mother debra said nothing was done to ferment the
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prevention. the distribution was a crime and when he's 13 he becomes a crack dealer on the corner. and you can understand the dynamics of what happens. i'm guessing with a liquor store on the street, it certainly isn't far away. so if we go into that if we go into that liquor store any of us tonight and we tried to steal the beer or vodka, and i apologize if any of you do that after i speak they will call the cops and they will come and take us away. the liquor store doesn't need to be violent. if we go to a local wheat dealer and we tried to steal their goods, they cannot call the police. right? the police will come and arrest them. they have to be terrifying. they either have to fight you or better yet established a reputation to be so frightening that you would not dare take
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them on. she is one of the most empathetic people that i know and she had to learn to be terrified. he had to learn to discipline his gang by ripping them out. he had to be aggressive and violent end they were talking about creating a culture of terror. if people still wanted to buy milk this is not about drugs, this is about prohibition they are not going to shoot any of the people in that wal-mart. the out all prohibition they were killing each other. what happens is they rise to the crips they talk about something with gang members it cost a million dollars per year.
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and so if you got any idea, were happy to talk about it. and so chino rises and starts using crack as he put it to me he said he wanted to know what my mother chose over me. so when he gets out of prison he starts to read about the drug war. and he discovers something that blows his mind this is not something that just happens in the world, it's not like a tsunami or a hurricane. this is a political choice and what happened to his mother what happened to him, all of that, it did not have to happen. he became a campaigner against the war on drugs. this includes shutting down the prison he was put in. and he succeeded. he was also very articulate in explaining how much this is still about what it was about what billie holiday. when he found out that billie
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holiday was a heroin addict, he also found out that judy garland was one. he told judy garland to take slightly longer vacations and that she would be fine. and that person called [inaudible name] was standing on the interstate 95 and maddux was a cop. she was arresting anyone she could find she had long hair and a hot temper they get to take away whatever they want and her best friend was lisa she was
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murdered by what she believed was a drug gang. and so that was why she went into it. but he was onto something. if you rest a rapist, the next week no one thinks that they're someone else on the corner but crucially leading to something more important.. the murder rate goes up if you bust the dealers. and what she discovered you trigger a war between rival gangs to control this. you start a turf war, there are 10,000 deaths per year in the united states, three 9/11's and
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there are a lot of people being caught in the crossfire. and they were hit in the crossfire and they didn't know what to do. they also believe very strongly that he was shot by the dealer couldn't he just thought it was the dealer and so she is -- i'm so proud to know her, such an extraordinary person. and i wanted to know what life is like on the supply. this dynamic that we are talking about, the dynamic of creating
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the right to put it, the war on drugs creating a war for drugs. and this was in el paso. [inaudible] and every morning i would walk across the bridge and you would walk across the bridge into what feels like an american city. and there is a 2% conviction rate and that 2% of them do it. the way it really helped me to understand the story there is to understand that they never sold drugs. they had no interest in it. she was 14 years old and then
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one day a guy shows up and he says i have a kid and i need some work, will you help me, is there anything i can do. and they said i can't give you a job. and so [inaudible] having an affair with my daughter, she's working, and you have not them. and she tried to get pregnant, but she tried to do this all the time and one day she turns up and ruby is not there. so her baby in there and survey
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says that ruby ran away, she went off with another man. and another individual says she didn't run off with another man and leave her child with you, i know she wouldn't do that and they said well, that's what happened. so she said have you seen my daughter and they just have to drive out out into the desert with them. and i hope that you can destroy the body. she says i can go and she goes to the police and says you have to do something. and they still don't quite understand why. they eventually campaigns managing to get this on trial. and so they break down and apologize to her and he admits what he did. and two weeks later he is acquitted. and he disappeared and she
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discovers that sergei works for the mexican drug cartel. so let's say five or 10% in the hands of armed criminal gangs selling drugs how this is going to be a lousy place to live, 70% of the economy is in illegal drugs and they can outbid this state. i was being shown around by one individual who was a correspondent who was killed by the police. [inaudible] in the age of prohibition she would not accept it. she decided to track down survey and she turns up to a detective that she spends three years tracking him all over mexico and she becomes a crack detective. and she walks across the desert
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and after three years she finds them. she goes to the police. and they go away again. and she goes and stands outside the governor's mansion and she leads a protest and she has become a symbol of everything. she stands outside and she makes this amazing speech about how people in mexico deserve justice. and in front of all of the police a man walks up and shoots her in the head. and a woman whose wages you pay the head of the drug enforcement agency, was asked about the 60,000 deaths of civilians in the last seven years and i urge you to look it up. she said that it was a sign of success on the war on drugs and when i went and talked to her i said to her stay with me with what she said. i said were your friends and
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she said we were terrified that sometimes your love is stronger than your fair. and it's something in the hope of that so i contrasted what she said that really stayed with me. another thing i wanted to understand was what causes drug addiction. if you would've said to me four years ago i would've said heroin causes heroin addiction. for 100 years we've been told a story that is so obvious that it has become part of our common sense. and we think that the first 20 people [inaudible] that we would physically need hair when that we would physically crave it. and that there may be something wrong with that theory and if
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any of us stepped out into the street and are hit by a car and we break, we will be taken to the hospital and it's likely that we will be given a lot of morphine which is harrowing. it's much better than street heroin which is five or 10%. you will be given out for a long time, that has happened at johns hopkins in any university in baltimore, it's happened at every hospital in the united states and the developed world people are being given a lot. and he wouldn't know is that your grandmother was not turned into a junkie by her hip operation. it's what we think about, if it's right, those people should be leaving as addicts but that doesn't happen. and so i didn't know what to do with it because it seems so weird. we talked to a man named bruce alexander and he explained to me
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that the addiction, the one that i believe has a series of experiments that were done early in the 20th century as few can go home and do them yourself, you get a rat and you put it in a cage and give it to water bottles, one is water and one is with heroin or cocaine. if you do that the rat will almost prefer the drug and almost always kill itself. so there you go addiction confirmed. until 1970 one individual says wait a minute, it's got nothing to do let's try this differently, so keep this experiment, he built rat park. it's got friends, tunnels, everything they could want in
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rat park and of course they tried this because they didn't know what was in it. but in rat park, they don't like the drug him and they hardly ever use it, none of them ever overdose, none of them ever use it in a way that looks compulsive i think there's a human experiment all around about this do what he does is he says this is the right wing theory that is flawed and the lettering theory is that it takes you over and hijacks your brain. he says that it's not a morality and it's not your brain. addiction is an adaptation to your environment. there was a fascinating experiment going on at the same time called the vietnam war 20% of american troops were using this. if you look at reports from the
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time they were really worried. they were like my goodness, all of these people are going to come back and we are going to have hundreds of thousands on the street. what happened? all of the study show that they came back and almost all of them just stopped. they did not go into rehab or withdraw they stopped because they got taken out of the jungle where you don't want to be and it's a nightmare and you could get killed at any moment, you go back to your nice life with your friends and your family and the equivalent had been taken out and be put into the second. and so i was in the war on drugs was based on the idea that the chemicals cause of the addiction and we need to physically eradicate them. so i don't think that's possible physically to eradicate these chemicals, we cannot keep drugs out as easily. we pay a lot of people good luck keeping it out of the united states, but you can at least understand that that has a
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philosophical appearance. but if that is not what causes addiction, the vast majority believe that those don't become addictive, it is isolation and pain, it is also the drug war that is built on the idea that what we should do without it is inflict more isolation and pain on them. in that reason they took me to this solitary confinement and there are desperate addicted women and i suddenly thought this is the closest you are ever going to get to a human reenactment of the cage that guarantees addiction. when they get out the site with billie holiday, they won't be able to work or do the things that they love. and i think it has deep philosophical applications. a guy says we shouldn't use the word addiction but bonding. human beings have an innate need to bond and the bond that we
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have is mostly with each other. but if you are deprived of the ability to bond with each other whether you're traumatized or cut off or humiliated or isolated, you will bond with something that gives you pleasure, that might be a roulette wheel but you will bond with something and if we want people to give up their bond, the moment that we talk about this we talk about how this could be individual recovery and we need to talk more about social recovery as well, something has gone wrong not with just individuals but a group. we have created a society where he number of our fellow citizens cannot bear to be present without being heavily medicated. the telling you to stories about the end of the war on drugs. good news, the war on drugs has begun to end. and i went to the places where it has begun to end.
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i thought that if i go there and it didn't work it could be the most oppressive and book ever written. but actually what i saw blew my mind. in the year 2000 the same time that we were standing outside baltimore a man called bud osborne was living on the streets near downtown vancouver. they have the worst concentration of attic in america. it was reported that the place at the end of the line people called it the terminal city. his friends were dying all around. so if you start to overdose, no one else sees you your body is found two days later. bob said that i have to do something about this, i cannot just watch all my friends die. and he also thought what can i do, i am a homeless street at and he had a very small and simple idea he got together the
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addicts and died when we are not using why don't we patrol the alleyways and have a timetable and if we spot someone, we will call an ambulance. and they started to do it. and a few months past and the overdose rate started to fall. that was great in itself but it also meant that the addicts got to think of themselves differently. and so they said they started to go to public meetings about the menace of the addicts and they would sit in the back and listen and they would say i think the were talking about us. and sometimes people would be really angry and they would say things like you leave your needles lying around. they say that is fine, we will extend it to collect them at the end of every day. then bob learned about
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frankfurt, germany. a place that you could go we could use heroin and then they said we are going to make it happen and they started to talk about this. picture that romney. a wealthy right-wing businessman. and they started to follow him everywhere they went saying that addicts will be taken to a local military base. and they started to follow him everywhere they went and they carried a coffin and the coffin said something like he will die and this goes on for two years and they start to get disillusioned because nothing is changing and people are still dying in huge numbers. one thing he said is that who are these people.
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and he just spends a lot of time with addicts. and his mind is blown. he had no idea. and so i learned when it comes back to this i hold a press conference and is the chief of police and corner, he has a chance to sam never going to talk about addiction again because they understand it better than anyone and we are going to openness first room in north america and have the most compassionate drug policy is in the things are going to change. they open the first injection room and they are so horrified. so there's a right-wing candidate in that candidate is beaten by a more liberal candidate who wins and keeps it open. the result are in 10 years later. overdose has gone by 80% and an
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average life expectancy has improved by 10 years. he only get stats like that at the end of the war which his likeness. bob died last year and he was only in his early 60s. but it takes a toll on you. they sealed off the streets to have a memorial service enormous crowds of people came and huge numbers of people knew that they were only alive because of what he had done. they think they are powerless and what can they do i want to tell you that you are so much more powerful than what you know. and this includes the saving of thousands of people's lives.
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it can never be taken away now. he did that by starting monday on one street with a bunch of alex. and i also wanted to go to the only place in the world that decriminalize all drugs from cannabis to crack and i wanted to the story about this. portugal had one of the worst drug problems in europe. 1% of the population. ..
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to be fair to them a stop on the panel comes back and says decriminalize everything but then here's the crucial next step, take all the money we currently spend on arresting drug users trying and imprisoning drug users. let's use all that money on really good judge treatment and it's mostly not what we think of drug treatment and united states. some of it is residential rehab and some of it is psychological support hugely valuable. the biggest thing is -- we could all be drinking vodka now. why are we? is because we have got something to do. we have meaning and purpose in our lives. we have things who want to be present for in our lives. the bully wants to be present for.
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game of the portuguese to criminalization was to make sure that every addict in portugal had something to get out of bed for so the biggest element of the program of subsidized jobs. say you had a problem and he used to be a mechanic. when you are ready they say if you employ this guy for a year we will pay half his wages. or microloans or groups of attics to sell businesses. the group of 15 attics addicts have this incredible support group. if you are one and 14 that have relapsed the other guys have a strong incentive to support you and get you clean. and it's been 14 years now and again the results are in. injecting drug use is down by 50% in portugal. although studies show addiction is down trade overdoses massively down and a guy named and i can't say portuguese names
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iis get them wrong. he led the campaign against the criminalization. he was the talk -- top drug cop in portugal and he is what a lot of people watching as we think and if you are criminalized will have all sorts of problems. and i'm paraphrasing everything i said would happen didn't happen everything the other side said what happened at any talk to me about how ashamed he was that he spent 20 years arresting and harassing drug users read and he hoped the whole world followed portugal's example. i don't want to get to -- i knew but i believe i've seen the future and it works. you know to wars began in 1914 two global wars. one is the war on drugs that hasn't ended and what is the first world war which lasted it it -- to 40 years. you know that some aging -- amazing images of the great enormity and france with all
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these graves stretched out for miles and miles. try to imagine if all the people from the war on drugs were buried in one place who would be there. you would have billie holliday and the song son she never got to sing. you would have leaves friends lisa and dead. he would have loved friend to die behind dumpsters. he would have a lot of people who were loved by people in this room. we have got a choice. we have got another century. we can fill that graveyard with far more people or we can choose a policy of love and compassion that will save a huge number of those lives. it's up to us now. thank you. thanks very much. [applause] so any questions? >> we have time for some q&a so
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if you would like to ask a question there are mics in the aisle right now. please line up and use the microphones. >> i would say two things, almost all the questions have been firm men so i'm going to police is that we have half women. you think there's a connection on the war on drugs and alien to my buddy meant illegal aliens and i started giving an answer like evil smuggling and mexican cartels. he said i mean extraterrestrials. i don't think extraterrestrials exist and he was horrified so as long as your question about that i will be very happy. if anyone wants to come because it's being filmed. if you just want to ask a question and come to the microphone. >> you mentioned a country that is legalize all drugs i believe. can you describe the country and how is that working out?
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as far as helping society and young people and how are they being educated for its usage? >> is an important distinction. decriminalization means you don't punish people for using. legalization into established a legal route to getting the drugs to portugal made decriminalize and it deals with some of the problems about others. the way i explain it is they shot down orange to the new black but they still have breaking bad traits i went to a country where they legalize heroin. i am also a swiss citizen in switzerland legalize heroin. this is really shocking because switzerland is really a right-wing country. when i was talking to someone about the war on drugs. he said i know we should do about the war on drugs. we should -- is that we are book is about? if you are a heroin addict you
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go to a doctor in the doctor will refer to the clinic and did not clinic you can go wherever you want to go and they will give you heroin. they will give you of whatever doesn't care when you asked for and you can't take it out with you but you can be given at there. one was unexpected. so they could carry on for as long as they want with a heroin and she's like yeah but the fascinating thing is almost everyone because their life stabilizes with the chaos of street is having to scramble for street use and all the prostitution most of them start to get their life together. they get jobs and they choose to reduce the heroin because their reality gets better. they choose to stay in reality longer and 70% of swiss people voted to keep that policy. probably because they're so much less street crime. street prostitution in to. there was much less mugging,
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much less violence so there was legalization. can we take a woman? i promise we'll we will come to you. thank you. hello. >> i work for a provider agency that does community-based alternatives for kids in juvenile detention. we use a rapper and advocacy approach. it's all about connections to you are helping to impose peace but last week that was in pennsylvania and harrisburg at the capitol talking to a legislator who very clearly was like people are attics and they make those choices and we have to punish them. what is a narrative that we can use for those of us whose experience tell us what you're saying in your book that we can use for naysayers and things like back? or positions of authority and power to make those changes? >> you may think it's like fluffy or feel-good or you want
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to have a thug kind of than what i think is great. >> that is sorely needed and really important. i guess what i would say is we have had a massive dehumanization and american britain and other places. there's no other minority i can think of where when they die lots of people say they brought it on themselves bear member went and the whitehouse guide or the kid from glee lots of people were saying they brought it on themselves. even a person at alton john guide wouldn't say good. it would be really extreme if they did that. it's about humanizing addicts and telling the story so it's about people coming out. like how did we change? 1963 the riots, two theaters in in -- 2000 years ago people were being persecuted. the defenders of people the pro-position was to say they are not evil, they are sick. that was the pro-position in people toga stories that people
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in their lives and incredibly people all over the world said i'm and i'm not the way you think i am. so partly stories about it coming out like you have black lives matter which is hugely important. i think we need the message addicts lives better. when the horrendous things i did for the book was i went to arizona the place about the chain gang and i interviewed to -- who works in prison right. tell me about something that shocked you. and she went through this long list list. somewhere down the who is she said there was a time i put that woman in the cage and cooked her. that was bad. i do the facial expression like you'd guys did just then today said sorry donna could you go back a second? there was a woman named marsha powell. she kept being arrested for having math or for prostituting herself to get mad.
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in her early 40s and one day she was in a prison and she was suicidal. the doctor didn't believe she was suicidal but to punish her for making noise they took her and put her in this cage in arizona, and exposed cage in the desert. and they left her there and she screamed and she begged for water and the guards mocked her and eventually she collapsed him by the time they called an ambulance she had been cooked. no one was ever criminally punished because addicts lives don't matter in our culture. and when they found the father of her children got the story of her life which is heartbreaking like billie holliday. she was a prostitute as a child. i think it's partly about explaining addiction is caused by pain and we need to tell a lot more real stories of real addicts and you know i think most people are pretty compassionate. most people are decent people and most americans had gold of you. if tell the stories i think that
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vindictive lets cook them in cages mentality will not thrive. thank you. thanks. hi. hello. >> i was wondering if you decriminalized everything in portugal do you think that the differences in american society that the same thing would work in the united states because it's a larger country with a more diverse society and social problems that they are lots of it in portugal? >> professor jeffrey miron said if you add up all the money spent on the drug weren't over taxes you would raise from drag jack city tax them the way we tax alcohol you would have ordered $3 billion a year. you could do what portugal did on steroids for $43 billion a year. that's an enormous sum of money so yeah transferring the money from something that makes addiction worse to something that helps people to turn around their lives absolutely would
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work. of course the details of the different than what works in mississippi may not work on the upper east side. we need to experience cautiously and be humble and say some of it will work in some of a while but i have to think it would work united states. we have parties in the legalization of marijuana in colorado and washington could i tell the story of how that incredible campaign by fantastic people was one in colorado. i think that's the short answer. can we go to a woman next? hello, come forward. i'm sorry, the light is blinding me. i literally couldn't see you at all. >> i've a question on the process of researching and i'm wondering the broader connections that you made great how much of that became clear as you are traversing geographic space and how much was part and parcel of the at analysis? >> no one asked me about the process of writing the book. i'm so happy. amygdala's book the riders like
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it if anyone wants to be a writer pleased by that book. it's amazing. has a brief analysis from thoreau. apparently i know nothing about nature either. apparently they want to find to be hibernate on the word is you look for a big jar catch the b. and hold that they're permanent. if you open the jar that be will freak out and find the direction of the hive so you cheese -- chased to be you lose it and catch another another be left that wants another be let that one can only do that 10 or 15 times you find the hive. that was basically the process of writing my book. i started with a list of people who i thought were interesting on the subject and i said well should i talk to? i found lee and i found so many people. it was a really fascinating process that led me and sometimes you would speak to a chain of nine people. you didn't get anything ported suddenly i would find lee. so that's the process.
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hi. >> hello. i was very interested to hear your take refreshing to hear that the fundamental cause of addiction is paid and the solution whether it's the dysfunctional solution or a societal solution would be providing bonding. i was just simply curious, have you -- do you have any familiarity with the sociologist rené brown and her work in the shame and the unspoken role that shame has in our society is almost a universal cause for disorder unhappiness and malcontent? i came across her work a number of years ago. she is also from texas and as you said you have had a chance to visit. it changed my life.
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to hear those words get again in a different context was something i felt like i wanted to take a moment and reference. >> you are the second to recommend this. i will definitely come i promise i will read it. >> a video on youtube a tedx talk that went viral. it was one of the most harrowing moments of her life to talk about shame because she herself is very introverted and struggles with it herself so there's a genuine nation -- nature to the way she comes across watching that was what led me to the rest of her work. >> there someone i wrote about in the book is a fascinating person. during the holocaust in the budapest ghetto there was a woman called judith marcase who is about to be murdered by the nazis. her parents have been murdered by the nazis in auschwitz but she didn't know it yet. she went up to christian stranger and to take my baby take him. the christian stranger did and that kid grew up to be a doctor
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and some people will know his work. he's a fantastic person. he started to work with hard-core addicts and what he noticed was there was one thing they all had in common. they all had horrific childhoods childhoods, sexual abuse physical abuse, far more then represented by the wider population. he himself had addictions. it was really pragmatic in his life. he would compulsively buy cds which you never listen to what is not quite crack addiction that he would abandon women in the middle of labor and go buy cds. he started think about the childhood chum he had and the childhood chum of these people. the adverse childhood experience study survey and they basically started -- on children and for
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every seriously traumatic event that happens to a child they are two to four% more likely to be an injecting drug user. what he explains as it's related to the shame they feel. when you are a kid the way we internalized the way our parents treatise. usually it's her mother piketty can be anyone. if you're upset and pain your mother reassures young columns you down. other times you reassure yourself. if you react to their crime with indifference or indeed hostility you will treat yourself like that as she that as you get older and you will be much more likely to need external soothing and external drugs. first i thought are these different theories but then it occurred to me if you go through childhood, it's much harder to trust the world.
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there a lot of people in the world that know this. you are much more likely to be isolated. shall we take a woman. hello. thank you for your question. >> i had a question about the u.n. convention on drugs and whether you had any opportunity to talk to anyone affiliated with the u.n. and changing policy internationally? >> yeah i interviewed the woman who used to be the head of one of the main u.n. drug agency's a british woman. the origins harry and slinger the man the place is rolling killing billie holliday was the crucial figure.
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he said i had made up my mind don't try to confuse me at the facts. and it's very important as global drug war is imposed from united states. the way it worked as at the end giving about mexico, mexico had a really good drug policy. they kept drug legal. there was a doctor and charge of drug policy. he said marijuana wasn't probably should treat alex with compassion. and mexico refuses so and slinger cut off off the supply for illegal opiates to mexican hospitals and they ripen and give me -- agony. britain resisted in some ways and basically the u.s. is dominant at the end of the second world war. it's one of a few things the u.s. and the soviet union agreed on. so these two superpowers unite to write this disaster, so the
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u.n. office of drug control is this body that imposes the drug war mainly funded by the u.s. under u.s. pressure. and one other thing about that analogy to the question but even the u.n. odc that threw me, if i said to you what proposed in -- proportion of currently illegal drug use doesn't do any harm to the user. you don't become addicted and don't have any health problems no harm at all it's 90% the overwhelming majority which is kind of hard to get your head around because if i said to you picture. ♪ user you picture yourself at a bar having a beer. if i say to you picture a cocaine user you picture an attic because the nature of the drug cocaine is no more likely to be addicts.
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it's because the drug war drives normal drug use underground so we don't see it. we just don't know about it. you would be pretty foolish if you were to come up to me and announce on facebook or anywhere that you are cocaine user. your boss is googling and you don't want that. so the drug war creates this weird effect to reinforce itself and distorts a picture of drug use that then needs the drug war itself. anyway that's my free association. >> we were talking to those folks. >> it's about talking to those guys and it the political change happens by talking to the people at the top. be honest i was never going to get that change. chomsky says he disagrees speaking truth to power. i don't need to tell the truth. he knows he is just a psycho. we don't need to tell the truth to those people. we need to make them change and the only way to do that is to
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bond together and demand it. >> a brilliant answer. thank you. [applause] >> i am doing a story right now about the impact of the war on drugs and a community that you call the ground zero for the war on drugs in baltimore and they are kind of addressing when he talked about how the conditions create the addictions and not the drugs. they are community that is kind of trying to keep the police away from what they are doing and the police have a new plan to send all these new officers into this community. are there other examples you know of for these types of holistic community-based efforts where community members are just trying to organize themselves prevent out the war on drugs is a federal policy but in baltimore to implement it by local law enforcement. i know there are laws in marijuana in maryland to
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decriminalize or legalize elsewhere but with heroin and harder drugs it seems like there's no end in sight. to legalize now were easing some of the punitive measures being faced. also the stats stuck out to me about how when you are rested one drug dealer there's so much more violence that results in it that and i know you said it's crazy to try to reason with people in power but it seems like people are just ignoring that her people in power are ignoring that are pretending that's not reality. >> that's a really interesting question. the best example is vancouver. a guy named matthew fogg i quote in the book a speech he gave. if you have got a law that is broken by half the population which the drug laws have been you can't put half of the population in prison. so what are you going to do?
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you are going to go to the most unpopular groups and he said in a speech he was a cop in d.c. and i'm paraphrasing. he basically went to his boss one day in said hey bost y. when we to drug raids do we only go to the black neighborhoods but i'm pretty sure whitefield to drugs. his boss said something like of course they do but why people get lawyers and why people know judges and white people know journalists. go for the low-hanging fruit. i'm all for moderate form but compassion in the framework of the drug war would get us very far. an incremental change is better. it improves one persons life really and i'm in favor of. i'm not one of these people who says things should stay bad to prove how bad they are. an incremental change is good but i don't tank, people say a shift in policing sure those things can be beneficial but ultimately if we have transferred drugs to armed
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criminal gangs and we have got drug lords against despised minorities is going to be awful. i'm sorry that's not more hopeful. and it's worth saying we talk about heroin legalization is different things for different drugs. no one wants there to be a crack i went to cvs. you have to understand that they have at the moment is anarchy. unknown criminals sell unknown chemicals to unknown users in the dark. we don't know what's going on. we already have so what we need to do is expand regulation legal preparation to cover that. we haven't done anything new. those webs of regulations exist for illegal drugs. we have one web for alcohol that i would encourage people to expand to cover cannabis and party drugs like ecstasy. we have a web of regulations by
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powerful sleeping pills at cvs much to my dismay because i have jet lag at the moment. that would have a preparation where you have to go doctor and to cover that you would cover things like heroin as they have been in switzerland so successfully. the things i crack and meth is hard to know. you might have an adaptation of the vancouver model for some safe spaces where you can use provided you didn't leave. but it's about, legalization doesn't mean and anarchic free-for-all. what we have now is anarchic free-for-all. legalization is a way of regulating and extending control. should we go to the next woman in the line. you are in fact the next one in line. >> i have a couple of questions. >> you want to just ask one because we have quite a few people. >> my question is came a little bit late so little bit wayside in the purity dresses but how did you come to this topic are your research and what is your
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background with drugs in your initial mentality before you started understand why drugs? 's been up to secretly we have addiction and my family and tranquilizer addiction and that was up to the national like a lot of people you have that background. i was eyes drawn to relationships with addicts and i was an on and off relationship with a person at a very good -- bad crack problem. >> would you consider the clinics in switzerland and also in vancouver to be analogous to methadone clinics are gigantic where -- or even nicotine patches? >> all those places prescribed it as well. the something as complex as human addiction you need to have a broad menu. anyone who says there's one solution to addiction and i found it and it's this is a
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charlatan and you should listen to them. addiction is complicated and different things will work for different people trade methadone should be on the menu abstinence-based treatment. there's a whole range of things. i don't want to take anything off the menu. i forgot to mention i've got to make in my speech. it's important to understand there is a chemical component to addiction. it's not like the story we are told is false. we actually know statistically from an experiment that people in this room would have taken part in what percentage is. we know menthol cigarettes are less addictive than tobacco cigarettes and a compelling part of tobacco is nicotine. when in the early 90s they invented nicotine patches there was this huge wave of optimism by officials who said great smoking is going to end because
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you get the drug you are addicted addicted to it that the filthy carcinogenic smoke. there are people wearing nicotine patches in this room wanting a cigarette. 17 the people that use nicotine patches can stop and 83% can't. that's also 17% is the camo component is enough to stop your addiction. that's a lot. you can stop 17% of smoking that's a huge number of lights. i'm not for a minute dismissing that the 70% is less than 83% and 83% as is all this other stuff we are talking about. there isn't that the woman next. let's just go for it. dan boozman. >> i like men but anyway. first of all thank you seriously. it's not just about the addiction are people who are seen as addicts. it's about the fact that you are creating a more vibrant conversation about pain in the human species and how is the
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human species we need to learn to face emotional pain and learn to deal with it and more intelligent ways because it affects all kinds of things. in baltimore county we have a school we call a consciousness school. we work with everything attics and non-addicts and all walks of life and we teach people how to bond with themselves. and with one another. we use holistic techniques medication breathing and movement and all kinds of things. i have the honor of being able to train what we call psychospiritual facilitators to help people people with these really departure themselves including addiction and not just addiction of substances but addiction to behaviors. i would just love to hear from you. i know what i say to people. i read your thing about love songs. you should be singing love songs to i know what i say to the people that i train.
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when i have a concern about whether loving these people too much is going to somehow make them codependent like to be manipulated by an addict. i know what i say to the people i train i would love to hear what you say. >> thank you for what you said and thank you for the work you do. it's a big question. when you are saying that i pictured the clinic in portugal they went to. i'm blanking on the name. the name is in the book. it was so amazing. i can't remember how much longer it was as i went to tent city in the chain gang. it was six months or something like that and there were all these addicts in this room and they were being massaged and taught to play trust games and how to express their feelings. i really wanted to fly back to arizona and grab those women take them to this clinic in portugal.
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i actually want to write more and research more about how we do the things were doing. come and talk to me afterwards because i would be really interested. i hate the concept of codependency. it's loving someone. you know that show called intervention. i think intervention is a deeply evil show. it is the importing of the drug were logic rate the idea that you should say it does connection is the main driver of addiction. the idea that you should say to addict i'm going to cut you off and we are always a group going to cut you off unless you go to rehab which by the way this worked very well. that's barbaric. that's the exact wrong thing to do. the thing to do with addicts in your life and this is very hard and i'm not saying it's easy and i find it reticular difficult for various reasons is to say ike unconditionally love you and whatever you do whether you were clean or whether you are using, what do you are sick or whether you are well i will always come
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and sit with you and be present with you. that's the only thing you can ever do that will help an addict and it will be really hard and a lot of the time you won't be able to stomach it but it's the only thing that's ever going to work. >> to develop a language that motioned codependency to love. >> thank you. >> we have time for two more questions. >> really am. hello. >> i'm currently homeless and a 2016 canada's mayor for baltimore. you have given me a lot of work to do for my platform including legalization of marijuana. my question to you is this which i find with any societal issue we have the money to do it tomorrow however if we end the war on drugs tomorrow with all of these great things that have been done in other countries where opposing capitalism. it's like trying to get the money out of politics so you are taking jobs away from billions of people in the prison
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industrial industrial complex etc. that facilitate the war on drugs so what are the steps to oppose that and eventually solve the problem? >> is a super interesting question. thank you. and i hope people vote for you. one the biggest backers of the anti-marijuana legalization california was the prison guards union and i found that so depressing. you are right some people will lose their jobs when in the wind drugs. order agents some cops although i can think of better things cops could be doing. prison guards. what i would say is let's retrain those people to provide compassionate love for attics. there are loads of stuff they can do. sometimes people say as well and this is a real concern actually. if you legalize it can have a huge number of young men who
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have made a reasonable living drug dealing. in some places is like taking general motors out of detroit. this is the case in baltimore. significant economic support. you would also be healing an enormous amount of devastation in the community with african-american men who are massively incarcerated. one thing it's very easy to lobby for his just pardons. governors governors and the president just a mass pardoning people for these harmless offenses. i don't think i totally answered your question but i got somewhere there. >> thank you. >> it's a man. hooray. you are going to give a really test us around question to compensate. >> i first want to say thank you for your talk. sort of piggybacking off of the last question there is a recent
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speaker here who wrote a book called drug war and capitalism boca singh on mexico and colombia superimposing this talk about the drug war on movements within the global capital and looking at in particular mexico where there is a correlation between the police and the cartels and a huge part of his labor organizers and people who are sitting on a really rich resources. again it's like literature on the influence of the private prison system in united states and how that benefits but also perpetuates the lobby for there were on drugs here could i wonder whether you think there is any sort of solution and the states without addressing that influence on politics and whether you did any research on the differences in places that do legalize drugs and comparing
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their prison industries and their influence as well? >> that's very interesting. there are loads of things to come out with that. one thing i thought of when he said that is a story i covered in the book. it's a crazy story and it tells you loads about the drug war. when drugs were first banned 100 years ago in 1914 there was a big loophole that went into the law. it said this doesn't cover addicts. they can go to the doctor and get their drugs. basically the swiss model and loads of doctors began prescribing heroin. that loophole was shut down by harry ansley state-by-state or when the last places to shut it down with california because it was popular. the mayor stands in front of the clinic and says you will not shut this down. the story of why was shut down in california turns out the local chinese drug gangs were really annoyed that a nevada
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drug addicts had to come and buy drugs from them but in california they could go to the doctor and get them. so they bribed the federal narcotics agents to introduce the drug war. they paid them to crack down. at the birth of the drug war armed criminal gangs are paying for it to be introduced or that tells you something about who benefits from the war on drugs. and you are totally right that dynamic is insane in mexico. i remember the guy who went to texas and have been unfortunate jack-in-the-box incident you know rosalia surprise somebody by saying of all the people i met for the book he was the one i felt the most sorry for beauty grew up in laredo on the texas side of the border which is basically the same the same side as the wave on the mexican side. when he was 13 days to go back and forth over the voter -- voter. between the ages of 13 and -- he
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killed people in ahead of them and horrendous stuff. he would talk about how in mexico he would go out with the police on his murder sometimes and they would accompany him. so you are right there is a nexus there. that's not like the united states in the same way. there some people who are conspiratorial and that's not the case in america. in terms of doing it to get the influence out of politics, yeah every problem this country can't be solved until you do deal with the corruption problem. why are we not dealing with local warming? why are we not dealing with the health care crisis. that is why obamacare isn't good but not that good so you're absolutely right. that's a much bigger question than just the drug war. you are absolutely right, we can do with the drug war without dealing with that. one last thing you asked what was the difference

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