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tv   New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman  CNN  June 17, 2020 5:00am-6:00am PDT

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executive order encouraging police departments nationwide to adopt the highest professional standards to serve their communities. >> i appreciate the discussion happening but that's not enough. that's not the true reform. >> i think it's progress. it's the caboose, not the engine but it's on the right track. this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> welcome to our viewers in the united states and all around the world. jim sciutto is in for john berman, it is great to have him here. we begin with the trump administration trying to -- a new spin on the coronavirus pandemic trying to spin it as a success. mike pence, the head of the coronavirus task force published an op-ed that doctors said are riddled with misinformation. 21 states are reporting a new increase in cases. ten of them are seeing a spike of 50% or more, jim. >> folks, just look at the number, look at the facts.
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the senior cdc official tells cnn that the vice president is cherry pick data to misrepresent the truth and the american people need facts. but the last white house coronavirus task force briefing was more than seven weeks ago. but cnn has learned that the top doctors from the task force have continued meeting regularly and will in fact brief the vice president today. cnn's chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta has the breaking news. sanjay, do they plan to confront the vice president with the facts? >> i think that they're definitely going to present real data in terms of what's happening in this country right now with regard to these increasing infection rates around the country. i think it's kind of just extraordinary, right, the last task force meeting april 27th. the official one back at the end of april. this doctor's group essentially had to band together as an off shoot.
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the top doctors including dr. fauci, dr. hahn, dr. birx, to keep the emphasis on the science and the medicine. the coronavirus task force according to sources i talked to sort of started to focus on the reopening on the country. the economy, so that the doctor's group had to get together to keep the focus on the science and the medicine. they meet two to three times a week and then they brief the president. one of those meetings will take place today. these increasing infection rates around the country is going to be the topic of discussion. not decreasing, you know? so this is obviously a very important point and the fact that this doctor's group has to exist at all, a very important point. >> i'm not sure the vice president is get their message, sanjay. i mean, he said that cases in oklahoma have flattened. no, they're still going up. he sees this as a success story. i mean, he used the word with
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the governors -- no, in his op-ed, he used the word celebration. on our screen you see almost 117,000 americans have been killed by coronavirus. i got the impression that you took issue with some of the things that vice president penned in his op-ed. by the 24 tweets that you sent at 11:00 p.m. last night. what had you exorcised? >> i mean, there's a lot that was in that op-ed. again, we're talking about the vice president who is the head of the coronavirus task force. i mean, there's a lot here. we have made mistakes with handling this pandemic from the very start. i remember having conversations with you on this program earlier on where i'd say, you know, projections are 20,000, 30,000 people can die and you said that's very sobering and keep in mind, the other countries measure their death counts in
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the thousands. not the hundreds or hundreds of thousands. let's look at the specific things in the op-ed. the second wave is sort an overblown media driven panic. the reality is that if you look at what that really means in terms of second waves, it's worth pointing out that we're really never out of -- we haven't gotten out of first wave yet. the idea of talking about the second wave is something that may not even -- reality here. we're not sure we'll get out of the first wave. look at the united states versus italy, for example. where are we in terms of this -- the overall infection rates versus what's happened in italy? italy gives you a better idea of what the sort of wave would look like. the left is the united states. the right is italy. we have plateaued a bit here. it's very likely these numbers are just going to go back up. it's sort of shifted where the case counts have been in this country. primarily in the northeast. now in the south and the west,
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primarily. that isn't improving or creating sort of a wave. that is just actually shifting where the case counts are in the country. italy has had more of a true decline. we never got there in this country. >> yeah. and if you look at more broadly in europe, similar where you have that wave like look there coming down. i want to drill down on another point you made in contradicting the vice president here and that is on his contention that the only reason cases are going up in effect are because -- is because you're testing more and just as an example and this is one you cited, look at new york, which was the center of this. as testing has gone up in new york, recently, in fact, cases have gone down. testing in blue on the left. you can see them rising, cases in right in yellow going down. explain why the vice president is wrong saying that the cases are only going up because testing is going up. >> yeah. i mean, first of all, the data doesn't bear that out. there are states around the
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country including oklahoma, by the way, which is obviously in the news a lot, where the cases have continued to go up significantly. one-fifth of the entire case count in oklahoma happened over the last week. one-fifth. 20%. at the same time, test rates have actually gone down in that state. so that has nothing to do with testing. that is the same story in many states around the country. the amount of testing going on does not account for the increase in the number of cases. also, you look at hospitalizations, hospitalizations have gone up in many of the cases. that would not be because of increased testing. this is a counterintuitive point. but i think it's really important. as you increase testing, case counts should go down, not up. that's because you find people who are carrying the virus, you can isolate them and you can prevent further spread that's the whole point. it's not simply to just find more people and increase the case counts as with us suggested in the op-ed. it is to actually to ultimately decrease the pace at which the infection is spreading.
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we are not doing it adequately. yes, we have increased the testing, according to some of the data we need to be closer to 5 million. so ten-fold increase in testing. i can tell you personally because i'm talking to my colleagues at the hospital, it is still hard to get the testing. you may say you have symptoms, a doctor may have referred you for some reason and you may have a hard time getting a test. that's not the way it should be 5 1/2 months in this. we don't have a vaccine, we don't have a medication. we have seen how testing can be beneficial in other countries. 5 1/2 months into this, we are still not doing that. instead, we are hearing a discussion about the media is overblowing the panic. 120,000 people have died and how are we overblowing the panic here and not doing the fundamental things that need to be tone. >> sanjay, you took issue with
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the vice president praising president trump's modeling of social distancing. the vice president said president trump rallied the american people to embrace social distancing guidelines. what is he talking about? we see them stand right next to each other at the signing ceremonies. >> it boggles the mind. i mean, you should hear some of the discussions i get in the medical communities about this. i mean, the most basic precautions in the midst of a pandemic, a virus that's circumnavigating the globe, we will look back on this time with tremendous shame from the medical stand point. again, we don't have a vaccine, we are still working on therapeutics. the fact that we aren't taking basic precautions to try and slow the spread is mind numbing. i will tell you, you know, we've got increasing evidence about the effectiveness of mask.
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if i have the virus, you're within six feet of me. what is the likelihood i'll transmit the virus to? 17.4% according to "the lancet." this is what that study showed. so that's the likelihood. it's not inevitable i will spread it to you, but it's pretty high. what about when i wear a mask what is the likelihood of spread? the number actually drops to about 3.1%. so you get a six fold decrease in transmission by simply wearing a mask. if you're doing things outside it decreases by another 18 fold. my point is we have lots of data in terms what can actually help and at the white house, among coronavirus task force, you know, meetings and things like that, some of the basic precautions are still not being taken. >> one other point you made, sanjay, states reopening aggressively are not meeting the white house's own standards to do so, which is to show the
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decline in cases i believe over 14 days. so how can the vice president claim everything is hunky-dory, right, when those areas are not even meeting what the white house put out as guidance necessary before you reopen? >> it makes no sense. i mean, these were their own guidelines. 14-day decreased trend in terms of the overall number of cases. 14-day downward trend in terms of influenza-like illness, symptoms associated with coronavirus and having adequate testing in place to quickly identify people who are newly infected. i don't know that any state meets that requirement right now. this was their own data, this was their own criteria, and they got thrown out the window almost immediately and we're starting to pay the price. the numbers we see on the map as they have gone up in many cases
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in the country, they're going to continue to get worse. i hate talking about this stuff, pause when we looked at the models early on, i remember thinking, by august 4th they say 60,000 people would die. i remember think, boy, when we do math and we crunch the numbers it look like it will be a lot worse than that. we're almost double it's the middle of june. now 200,000 people by october 1st and sadly, i think it's going to be worse than that. you know, as high as the numbers are, we're not doing anything to try and really mitigate the spread adequately in so many places around the country. i know there are places in green right now. but i'm worried about the entire country because of what's not taking place right now. >> sanjay, we hear your frustration. we really appreciate you bringing us the facts this morning. thank you. >> you got it. thank you. what's wrong with this picture? well, a major change with the
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aunt jemima brand. remind me to call petsmart
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this just in. one of the ripple effects of social justice movements playing out across the country hitting the corporate world. quaker oats is retiring aunt jemima, that line of pancake mix and syrup that has been around for something like 120 years, maybe more. it is now seen as the face of
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the mounting criticism over racial equality. pepsico acknowledging the name which has been around for 130 years is based on a stereotype. the company has not said what the new brand will like or be called, but consumers can expect to see the change later this year. the news comes about an hour before senate republicans reveal their police reform bill. joining us right now, john harwood and cnn commentator bakari sellers. your thoughts? >> i'm glad that people are cognizant about what's going on around them. the change i hope permeates the halls of congress, let's hope it perm nates the states around the country. i like the removal of the confederate flags an statues and the removal of aunt jemima but
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we have to have statutory changes in order to have true, systemic change in the country and get rid of the racism. with aunt jemima gone, here's to you, uncle ben that's what we're look at next. these racial caricatures must go, so i believe uncle ben's is probably next. >> interesting. >> john harwood, you're seeing here as we have seen on over social justice issues the private sector leading the public sector. getting ahead of it, for instance on guns. you had the stores such as walmart stop selling big magazines when there was no national action. what is happening in terms of legislation now because you have major differences between the republican plan and the democratic plan. is there room where they will meet?
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is there overlap here? incentivizing change like banning chokeholds and the republican plan as opposed to requiring change and that's a big deal. >> well, there's subject matter overlap and if you listen to tim scott who was on our air last night, he seems genuinely interested in having that conversation with democrats. the question is how much of the republican caucus is going to go along with him. so in tim scott's bill, he has reviews of the practice of no-knock warrants, he does not outlaw them. he uses the carrot and stick of federal funds and the denial of federal funds as a lever to try to end the use of chokeholds. the house bill would ban those chokeholds. one thing what tim scott does not touch is the issue of
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liability -- legal liability for police officers. the qualified immunity that they now enjoy and one of the interesting pieces and back of forth, tim scott on behalf of the republicans have said that's a nonstarter in our caucus and we shouldn't talk about it, which is a way of saying, well, since we're against it, we can't have it in our bill. nancy pelosi has done the same thing on the issue of chokeholds by saying let's be reasonable. you have to ban chokeholds in a serious bill so they're sort of facing off against one another. the question is is there going to be space to make a deal? you can see the democrats saying, we can get a lot more done next year if we win the election, both the senate and for the president, than if we cut a deal with president trump now and that's going to conflict with the idea of getting some action immediately. >> well, what do you think? is there enough common ground in these two plans between democrats and republicans that you think they will be able to do something very soon?
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>> i think they will be able to do something mainly and i get criticized for this often because i do have faith in tim scott. you know, most people on social media, et cetera, you know, i served with tim scott in the state legislature and having someone you want to work with is frowned on for some reason. i disagree with him about the qualified immunity. that's something that's necessary. that is a great concern. that is something we need to do. link qualified immunity so they can no longer hide behind the shield. i wish the republican party would be willing to do comprehensive change. we are seeing culture move faster than a political process and unfortunately that always happens. but as dr. king talked about, we have to have the fierce urgency of now. at the rate we are seeing next weekend we'll be talking another police shooting. i hope i'm wrong, but at the
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rate we're going that's probably true. >> where is the president here, because his press moment yesterday -- not a conference where he announced this executive order, he said a lot of things. do you see him as changing his message at all in response to the enormous public show of dissatisfaction, of anger and outrage here or is he sticking on his please the base strategy? >> mainly the latter. he is making minimal accommodations to the breadth of public discontent on this. he continues to repeat he's a law and order president and his conception of what that means is a get tough, don't permit anything to get out of control. and so he -- it's clear that republicans in general and the white house in particular thinks they have to have some response to these protests and so you had
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kind of a de minimus response in the executive order. it's not nothing, but it's not a lot. it's less than what tim scott is proposing in the senate. it would try to lead police departments along for certaination and discouragement of chokeholds unless the police officer thinks his life is in danger. it's not nearly as proscriptive as tim scott's approach is. i think the administration's idea is that if the congress can't do anything as a back stop they will at least have done something and then he can get back to his original message. >> baccari, i know this is a long time coming and it's long overdue, but have you been struck by how in the past three weeks from legislatures, from state legislatures, to capitol
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hill, to the white house, to nascar to other sports to now aunt jemima, i mean the cultural wave, it does seem to be dovetailing. what are your thoughts as you watch all of that? >> so, yeah, i'm excited, alisyn. i mean, this warms my spirit. you have two sets of emotions here. i mean, watching young people -- i mean, the reason that aunt jemima is pulling this down, they went viral over the last 24 hours because of a young woman on tiktok. she reminded people of the symbolism of aunt jemima. watching bubba wallace, watching taylor swift and et cetera, i give taylor swift props, watching them raise their voices to speak out against injustice. this is what this country was built upon. but let me remind you and be
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clear to you and jim. the reason we're here, the reason we got to the federal housing act in 1968, the reason we got to the civil rights act and the reason that the confederate flag came down has always been because of black blood that's gone through the streets of this country. the reason we're here is because of george floyd, ahmaud arbery, breonna taylor. while i'm excited i'm sober in realizing how we got here. >> it's a good reminder. we're only three weeks removed from watching a man die on video over 8 minutes and 46 seconds. good to have you on. your thoughts. so how will police departments put these reforms into action. a police chief who testified about his own experience will join us next. right now is a time for action.
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i wouldn't like to live in a country that i'd be afraid to be stopped. so hopefully we can all understand that problem and fix it, but it is a problem. every black man -- virtual he every black man in america feels like if they get stopped by the police it's a traumatic experience. >> that was lindsey graham holding the big hearing on police reform. our next guest testified that law enforcement must do more to purge bad cops from the ranks. how can police departments do that? joining us is bart acevedo. you testified in front of the senate committee, so what was your message? >> i think that the message from the chiefs and myself personally is that we have to do a lot more. our community across this nation, all colors and faiths and social standings want more done in terms of police
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accountability and that starts with the national registry where we can track sustained compliance and criminal misconduct by police officers so no one can slip through the cracks and go to one agency to another, because we have 18,000 police departments in this country. >> is that the one thing -- if you had a magic wand and you could change one thing today, it would help the communities, help police officers, the country, is that it? >> well, the problem is it won't make a difference unless we do -- unless we do it comprehensively. i would start with that, i would start with the -- any manipulation of the neck you shouldn't be touching anyone's neck unless you're in a fight for your life where you're justified in shooting someone. that's something else that has to be done. so there is no one magic, you know, potion for this. we have to do a lot of things including looking at the statute of limitations when an officer commits a violation.
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some place it's the day of the event until the day of discovery so that's not consistent across the nation. we hope to get it done in a bipartisan or nonpartisan manner in this congress. >> i appreciate you talking about that comprehensive view that you see because obviously that's what congress and the lawmakers are trying to tackle. here's where the plans stand right now. so the ban on chokeholds that you just talked about, you think that there should be a ban on chokeholds i assume unless the officer's life is immediately in danger. the republicans feel that they would offer incentives to avoid chokeholds. democrats want to ban them. then there's the tracking police misconduct, we talked about that. the gop wants states to maintain that. the dems want a national registry. the change in qualified immunity, no, that's not part of the gop proposal. yes, in the democrats.
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the no-knock warrants, the gop want to collect state data and democrats want to ban it. is it time to end the qualified immunity for police officers? >> i don't think that ending it would be helpful because we don't want to create an environment where police officers are afraid to take action and in very dynamic situations. however, i think we have to take a close look to see what opportunities exist to tweak it, to adjust it, to make it easier to hold bad cops especially cops that act in an egregious, willful and wanton disregard for the rule of law and for the policies, procedures and the training that we provide them. so there's room to examine it, but we have to be careful that the police officer isn't so risk averse that the american people -- their safety is going to be greatly reduced. so we have some work to do in terms of that analysis. >> do you think that we are at risk of doing that? with all of this talk -- i mean,
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we heard from chief ramsey earlier who said this is demoralizing for the good police officers out there. the past three weeks of talking about the police excessive force, talking about how, you know, so many black men are dying at the hands of police, and we have seen some police officers in a couple of scattered spots resigning because it sounds like they don't like this conversation and don't like the feeling of sort of being under the spotlight. are you seeing that? >> we haven't. i think that in our department, we are a -- we are a very special department, we're a minority majority department. it's a home grown department and we always tell our people we don't get paid, we don't make our money for the good days or the easy days or the normal days. we earn our money and we prove our worth to this community during the challenging times. this is an opportunity -- historical moment where history is watching us.
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we have been telling our officers every time that we're about to deal with significant issues and it's an opportunity for the good police officers to stand up, speak up, and demand action from the congress and the state legislatures to do everything we can to get rid of our bad officers. it only takes one. all of the good work goes away. so we're not seeing it here. i think that our men and women see this as an opportunity to move the profession forward and unify with the community and i think they're hopeful that change is really actually going to come. >> chief acevedo, great to check in with you. thanks for your expertise on this. we know how to prevent the spread of coronavirus. doctors say you have to wear a mask and must socially distance. wait until you see how some people are -- well, ignoring those guidelines. we'll show you.
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well, you may have seen this yourself. more americans are ignoring guidelines to wear a mask and be socially distant to avoid spreading coronavirus. it's been proving both of those things help prevent the spread.
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this as 21 states see a new increase in new cases. rosa flores has more from florida. florida one of those states. kind of some denial about the numbers there. what's happening on the ground? >> you know, governor ron desantis maintains that the uptick here in the state of florida is due to outbreaks in agricultural communities and in prisons. however, mayors in his state in the epicenter say among other things that people are simply not wearing masks. coronavirus cases in florida jumped by nearly 2,800 monday. setting a single day record. >> no, we're not shutting down. >> reporter: and florida governor desantis said he's not shutting down the economy.
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instead, saying florida is open for business. hosting the first nascar race with fans this past weekend and a portion of the republican national convention set to take place in jacksonville in just over two months. >> i think i mentioned the other day outbreaks in agricultural communities. >> reporter: while desantis claims the uptick is due to outbreaks in agricultural communities and prisons, mayors in his state in the epicenter like in miami and miami beach say people are not wearing masks. >> we have to remind people they have to wear their masks especially when they're inside. they have got to exercise physical distancing. >> reporter: a florida health care worker says she and 15 of her friends tested positive after one night at a jackson beach bar. >> i think we were careless, we went out into the public place before we should have and we weren't wearing masks. >> reporter: florida international university infectious disease expert dr.
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ily marty warns that the case numbers could continue to spike as the state sees the impacts of scenes like these. >> just go ahead and shut down. >> reporter: for memorial day in daytona beach, florida, and large-scale protests showing many people not social distancing and not wearing masks. >> one of the ways in which we can help each other have an economy and at the same time work to get this virus out of the community is by wearing our masks. >> reporter: another state seeing an uptick in cases -- south carolina. >> like freedom. like a new life. >> reporter: governor henry mcmaster acknowledged people were not social distancing and says that he has no plans to shut down the economy. also digging in his heels, president donald trump pushing forward on a maga rally this weekend in tulsa. no masks required. despite an increase in cases there and a lawsuit demanding the rally to cease unless
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organizers commit to following social distancing guidelines. >> i have made it clear, i can't stand seeing people walking around without a mask. >> reporter: howard stern taking his frustration to the airwaves. criticizing people claiming that not wearing a mask is an american freedom. >> freedom doesn't mean you get to do whatever the [ bleep ] you want. >> now, the outbreaks in agricultural communities here in the state of florida could soon become the problem of other states. according to governor ron desantis, he says that many of the people infected are migrant workers and the season here in south florida is pretty much over. so jim, they're heading to states like alabama and georgia and according to governor desantis the florida department of health is now in communication with those states because these cases could be crossing state lines. jim? >> yeah, remember when florida was blocking people from other states that had outbreaks from coming in to florida. rosa flores in miami, thanks very much.
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here's what else to watch today. >> there's a place where a man born on the other planet makes a singer born to be a star. where a big bang meets a ba-da-bing. meets a guy named bing -- >> can i interest you in the sarcastic comment. >> it's where all hbo makes the greatest collection of movies and shows and new max originals for the family. hbo max, where hbo meets so much more. time now for the good stuff. during the pandemic, a toddler and a train conductor in massachusetts formed a special bond. 3-year-old jake loves trains so every day he would wait on the platform for the commuter train to come by with his buddy troy thornton on board. the two would s hello to each
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other. and the daily drive-byes did wonders for both. >> then like -- hi, jake! see you tomorrow. >> he makes my day more than you know. it would make me and sustain me. you forget all the troubles for that minute and it just carried you. >> that is one of the cutest things i have ever seen. all right. meanwhile, president trump has seen a lot of dissent from current and former military leaders, particularly after his controversial church photo-op. former defense secretary robert gates has thoughts on this. he joins us next. the good stuff, brought to you by sensodyne. number one dentist recommended brand for sensitive teeth. new sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth
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welcome back. the differences between president trump and the u.s. military are growing. the pentagon of course clashed with him on the use of force as you see here to violently disperse peaceful protesters outside the white house, leading to two top military leaders apologizing for appearing with president trump at this photo-op with the president outside a church across from the white house. joining me now is former defense secretary robert gates. he's the author of "exercise of power, a new path forward in the post cold war world." thanks to have you on. i remind people that you served
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george w. bush and president obama administrations. i want to if i can begin on these differences between the military and trump, breaking out into the public. because of course you have the differences over the photo-op, but some very substantive on the use of active u.s. military to respond to protests, on renaming bases that have been named for confederate generals, but also now on a current national security issue of u.s. troop deployments to germany. i wonder, are you concerned that there is a rift now between the commander in chief on the military on how to keep this country safe? >> well, i would divide the concerns between the military and the white house into two categories. the first that was the one that created the greatest amount of anxiety among retired military and probably active duty military was the call for the
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application of the insurrection act which authorizes the president to use regular army forces on the streets of america, and it's important to understand the distinction between the regular army and the national guard. the regular army is basically trained to do one thing and that's to kill our enemies. the national guard has other responsibilities there. they're in natural disasters, sandbagging, you have them helping with food handouts, food banks right now. they also can fight as they did in iraq and afghanistan, but they also some experience in crowd control and relationships with local law enforcement and they take off their uniform and go back home at night. they live in the communities where they get deployed so they know that -- it's their neighbors they're going to be dealing with and it was -- it was the threat of using regular army forces that i think concerned a lot of the former chairman and so on. the second was the appearance of
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the compromise of the apolitical ethic of the american military with the appearance in lafayette park of general milley and secretary esper. i think it -- i think basically, my opinion, i don't think they knew what they were getting into and general milley managed to avoid the photo-op there, but he was the president in lafayette park and he's acknowledged that it was a mistake and underscoring both in his public remarks and in messages to the troops the importance of maintaining the apolitical ethos of the american military. they don't work for one president or another, they don't work for one party or another.
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they're there for the american people. i think those are two issues. then there are the substantive issues that you raise, the question of withdrawing troops from west germany and so on. there i think, i mean, those are policy issues that presidents and senior military have all the time. i disagreed with president bush as president obama over whether to intervene in libya. the chairman of the joint chiefs with me on that. my worry about the west german decision is that it appears, at least, to be a decision to take troops out of west germany, out of a fit of pique with angela merkel because she didn't want to come to the g7 meeting that the president was going to host. there may or may not be a good reason to reduce the number of troops in germany, whether to re-assign them to poland or bring them back home or whatever. >> right. >> but that decision has to be
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carefully considered, it has to be in a strategic context and it has to be in consultation with our allies. >> secretary -- >> if it's not seen as something as a fit of pique. >> you know from experience that's not how the president makes decisions. we saw that. he withdrew or attempted to withdraw u.s. forces from syria via tweet with no consultation with the national security council or commanders on the ground. he withheld military assistance from ukraine over the objections of virtually everyone in the national security community who he's now successfully exiled from government. you had a senior defense department official resign yesterday after her advancement was blocked. i just wonder you know this president's habit is to get rid of people who stand in his way on decisions like this. i just wonder with the u.s. military here, are you concerned that he will keep firing, keep going forward like a bulldozer
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until he finds yes men who will do what he wants them to do? >> well, i think -- i think that he -- he will continue to do what he wants to do. the question is whether he will listen as he has. he did not -- he listened and did not use the insurrection act. so i think there are successes that people have been able to persuade him of an alternative course of action. in the case of syria, after all, that's what provoked the secretary mattis to resign. >> yes. >> so there will be these situations and, you know, the one thing that i will say about the presidents i have worked for, i had some very really disagreements with president obama, particularly toward the latter part of my tenure. whether it was going into libya or the way we handled egypt during the arab spring, so on.
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but he never shut me out. he always welcomed an alternative point of view. he always wanted to hear objections so he could weigh those objections. president bush was exactly the same way as were literally all of the other presidents that i worked for. this president doesn't seem to want to have that kind of a dialogue with his senior leaders, although i hear there's some incredibly spirited discussions in the oval office. so it's hard to know what goes on behind the closed door. >> you are right, there have been times when his advisers have been able to council him back. for instance, the fewer troops in syria, there are still troops on the ground in syria after those two withdraw orders. listen, i would encourage people to read your book, i have been through it. "exercise of power."
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it gets at the larger issues. what's the path forward to keep this country safe and some of the questions in public. secretary bob gates, thanks so much for joining the program this morning. >> thank you. thank you for inviting me. cnn's coverage continues right after this.
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good morning, i'm poppy harlow. glad you're with us. the pressure is building and has been building for weeks for actual action on police reform. in minutes, senate republicans will unveil their plan and an advanced copy shows by cnn shows it does not go as far as the house democrat's proposal. it does not include a federal ban on chokeholds. the republican plan incentivizes states to take action by holding back federal funds if they do not. this comes on what could be a very pivotal day in the case of the fatal shooting of rayshard brooks by police in atlanta. a decision on charges for one or both officers involved in the death could come at any moment. also this morning there are the facts on coronavirus and then there's the message from the
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white house. vice president pence says


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