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tv   New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman  CNN  June 10, 2020 4:00am-5:00am PDT

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to strike a plea deal with eric chauvin, the officer who is charged in george floyd's killing. >> these laws need to be changed. no more hate crimes, please. someone said, make america great again, but when has america ever been great? >> philonise floyd set to testify before a house judiciary committee later today. >> in a period of four months, it has devastated the world. and it isn't over yet. >> the world health organization on cleanup duty, confirming asymptomatic spread is possible. >> what we need to better understand is how many of the people in the population don't have symptoms. >> announcer: this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. this is "new day." in the space of a little more than two weeks, change has begun in the u.s. 12 cities and municipalities have taken action to ban choke holds by police officers after george floyd's killing. and in just a few hours, floyd's brother will testify before the
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house judiciary committee on how to move forward from here. house democrats have already proposed sweeping reforms to policing. republicans are now drafting plans of their own. but president trump's contribution, so far, has been to spread a blatant lie about a 75-year-old peace activist who was shovedou and injured by a buffalo police officer. >> there are now developments this morning in the investigation of george floyd's death. minneapolis news station kmsp is reporting that derek chauvin, the officer who pinned george floyd to the pavement with his knee, to his neck, for nearly nine minutes, was in talks to plead guilty before he was arrested and charged with murder. those negotiations reportedly fell apart. meanwhile, there are calls for investigations about voting problems in georgia. a complete meltdown is what "the atlanta journal-constitution" called it after voters waited hours in line in the hot sun yesterday. absentee ballot applications never returned. so why did this all happen? and can it be fixed by november?
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let's begin, though, on capitol hill with our boris sanchez. boris, we are seeing actual plans for change now. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, john. philonise floyd set to testify before the house judiciary committee. he's going to tell his story and he is part of a list of witnesses that are set to build a case that systemic racism in law enforcement is real and needs to be addressed. that is something that president trump has not acknowledged. the president standing firm in his law and order stance, still deliberating whether or not he's going to address the issue on the issue of racial unity. aides to the president tell cnn that in recent days, they've tried to relay their own personal experiences with racism to the president. sources tell us that the president has been open to that. that he's been receptive. they also tell us that the president is open to some kind
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of police reform legislation, though the details of that remain murky. the president sending his chief of staff, mark meadows, and his son-in-law, jared kushner, to capitol hill yesterday, to meet with senator tim scott, who is leading the republican senate effort to build some form of legislation. a draft of that legislation was released yesterday. it is much more measured than the democrat version that was released on monday from democrats in the house. it includes a far-ranging set of motions, including anti-lynching measures, as well as a ban on choke holds nationally. the republican version does not include that. it essentially leaves a ban on choke holds up to local governments. we should point out, already, a number of local governments and municipalities have banned choke holds, have banned that practice. places like washington, d.c., new york, miami, et cetera. it is still a very wide-open question, what these two sides are willing to compromise on. and of course, what president trump will finally sign off on. john? >> boris sanchez on capitol
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hill. president trump is nowhere on this right now. hasn't said a thing about what he would expect or what he wants to see, and that's crucial. so joining us now, cnn "early start" anchor, laura jarrett, who covered the justice department for a while. bakari sellers is here with us, as well. he's the author of the book "my vanishing country." laura, let's put it back up on the screen so people can see these various proposals. the democratic proposal is in writing at this point. in addition, it includes significant changes to the qualified immunity enjoyed by police officers in terms of lawsuits right now. and you can see some of the ideas being kicked around by tim scott. doesn't go as far as the democratic plan, but a couple of things are notable, really to me, laura. number one is that republicans haven't been critical of the democratic plan yet. they're not bashing it the way that plans normally get bashed when proposed by one party or another, which indicates to me, they know that they have to come up with something, which is why you're seeing republican senator
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tim scott scrambling right now. they know that the country is calling for action now. >> yeah, they're reading the room. they realize they need to do something. and look, federal policy is important. it makes a lot of sense in tim scott's version to say to states, look, if you're not having officers turn on body cameras, that's a problem and we may have to withhold funding. but i think the concern for a lot of people is that these are just crumbs and really scratching at the surface of a much, much broader problem. that they will do these things, they will pack up and go home and say, you know what, our job is done. when in reality, a lot of the policing issues are happening at the local level. that's why we see so many states banning choke holds. and even in those cases, a lot of other people are saying, look, you know, some of these reforms we're seeing on the local level don't go far enough. in minneapolis, officers had to go through cultural sensitivity training and that still didn't help george floyd. >> and bakari, isn't it strange to hear nothing from the president? i mean, i know we're three years
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into this and nothing should surprise us, but silence, while these nationwide protests, while all of the polls suggest that the public sentiment has changed in the past two weeks. and you see congress taking action quickly, which is also striking. and nothing. no statement from the president other than these conspiracy theory, repugnant tweets. he gets them off of some fake cable network that finds them on a fringe website. that's the message he wants to put out. >> i'm not surprised. and i actually think that the country can better heal itself if the president stays out of this. i know that's kind of unique to say that we don't need to involve the president of the united states in one of the largest issues that it's facing right now at the most critical juncture we've had in the most recent 50 or 60 years, but that's the case.
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i am excited that tim scott is at the table. i am excited that tim scott is pushing forth ideas. and i know that these ideas may not go far enough to address the systemic racism that we have that's at the core of many of our systems in this country. however, tim scott does come with these experiences. i'm interested to see the testimony today from george floyd's brother. on the other hand, though, you actually have people in the republican party, we have to be mindful, who believe that -- who believe that systemic racism does not exist. dan bonjino is testifying on behalf of the republicans. you'll this message come out that says that systemic racism does not exist. that's why i'm happy that tim scott is at the table. to laura's point. now that jorgeorge floyd has be buried, will we be bold in trying to fix these solutions, or just nibble around the edges move on? >> laura, what's the difference? can i ask?
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if we can put up on the screen so people can see the various proposal sing tha s that are be what would count as a major structural change and what counts as nibbling around the edges? >> i think the qualified immunity issue is actually a huge deal. and it may sound like sort of legal mumbo jumbo, but it's a big deal. because what it means is essentially federal officers are off the hook, unless there has been a clearly established rule, which means that the supreme court has actually spoken on that issue, officers can point to that and say, look, i am not guilty in this case. and so i think there are actually legal rules that have allowed for a long time people not to be held accountable. but i also think that, you know, senators need to listen to their communities. and what their communities are asking for. and a lot of cases, it's not just reform measures. they want to radically change how policing is done. i mean, our tv screens are full right now of an enormous amount
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of police using force on citizens, even after the death of george floyd. and so i think they're trying to -- the protesters are really right to reimage what police would look like in this country. >> former vice president joe biden is trying to, i guess, well, be a voice for all of this and step into the void that president trump is leaving. so last night, he did talk about his view on systemic racism. listen to this. >> do you believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement? >> absolutely. but it's not just in law enforcement. it's across the board. it's in housing and it's in education and it's in everything we do. it's real, it's genuine, it's serious. look, not all law enforcement officers are racist. my lord, there are some really good, good cops out there. but the way in which it works right now, and we've seen too many examples of it. >> bakari, do you think that he's having some impact? do you think his voice is being
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heard in the middle of all of this tumult? >> yeah, i mean, that was pitch perfect. that is what people of color, black folk have been screaming for 40, 50, 60 years. i mean, alisyn and john, think about this. it took us seven years to get to the point where people would even say black lives matter. seven years. that's how long the movement has been going and now finally people are saying it and we're putting forth solutions and we have a candidate for president of the united states who acknowledges this. this moment is larger than george floyd. and that's the challenge. this is a -- this is a seminole moment in our country's history. and it seems as if joe biden is ready to tackle that moment, even with all of his flaws and even with some of his stumbles, he's ready to tackle the moment. on the flip side, you have to look at donald trump, who's ill equipped for this moment. and we talk about, where is donald trump? i know that the rock dwayne johnson had this amazing and
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lengthy video on social media asking, where is our leader? well, many times you don't want the arsonist coming back and doing something with the fire. and so we sit here today just thirsting for leadership, but that leadership has to have empathy. we have an empathy void in this country, one that donald trump cannot feel. and the question is whether or not people will support joe biden and he'll continue to lift this message up between now and november. >> the thing is, the president has to sign legislation. if congress passes something, the president has to sign it. so he can't be completely removed from this process. and in terms of what he's doing, we saw what he was doing yesterday with this just absurd, blatant lie about martin gugino, the 75-year-old peace activist in buffalo who was pushed to the ground, blood pouring from his head, suggesting it was some kind of conspiracy theory. i agree with you on the sense, bakari, it's not surprising from the president at this point. we've seen that before. just because it's not surprising doesn't mean that it's
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offensive. and it should be easy for politicians of any flavor or party to condemn such a statement. but look how not eased it was. look how hard republicans worked. look at the gymnastics that they performed, trying to avoid these questions yesterday. listen to this. >> what about the president's tweet, though? was that appropriate, sir? >> as i said, we are discussing in the senate republican conference, what response we think is appropriate to the events of the last two weeks. >> i just saw the tweet and i know nothing of the episode, so i don't know. i'm not as fixated, i guess, as some people. >> you saw the president's tweet this morning when he talked about this buffalo protester. >> i haven't read -- >> we have it for you here. >> you could have just said, it was bad, he shouldn't have done it. that took me less than three seconds to say. but each of those senators pulled a muscle trying to avoid a question there.
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laura, you can see them just -- it just seems like such an opportunity missed to take a stand. >> look, time and again, they have made their gamble that they don't have to say anything. and that he will do something else and the media cycle will move on and we will go through this over and over and over again. but the real test is what happens in november. and whether people are actually going to hold their elected officials accountable. we have seen already, trump's poll numbers are slipping, and the campaign knows it. even among white evangelicals, they don't like what they're seeing. the question is just what actually happens when people go to the polls. >> yeah. bakari, it has become just so notable when republicans now do speak out against the president's tweets. i mean, now it -- when mitt romney says it was a shocking thing to say, and i won't dignify it with further comment. when, you know, senator thune says, it's a serious accusation, which should only be made with facts and evidence and i haven't seen any. and when lisa murkowski says, it
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just makes no sense that we're fanning the flames at this time. this is not good. that is notable and do you think that is a shift? >> that's a good question, alisyn. the bar is so low. i remember back in the day when we actually were mad at a president for wearing a tan suit or using dijon mustard. i mean, that's where we once were. this is absurd and to applaud mitt romney or murkowski or actually having some semblance of character is -- i just don't want to applaud that. i think that the damage that donald trump has done to the republican party is something that's going to be felt for the next decade. i mean, i'm not the person to do it, and i'm not smart enough, but i wish there was someone who could come on this show and write a book on how donald trump has crumbled the moral fiber of the republican party. how he shifted the moral compass
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of this party. how he's lowered the standards and expectations of the white house from someone who was held to the highest standard, the 44th president, to someone who can literally, if he puts together a complete sentence we cheer for, and if people speak out against him being rude, we count that as a victory for that person. my, my, my, things have changed in just four years. and the bar is so low that it only takes a little bitty hop. maybe even john berman can get over it. >> even i can jump higher than that bar. bakari sellers, you have written a book, i should note, it's called "my vanishing country," now available in bookstores and now i hope that you feel bad for making fun of me that i've promoted your book. >> and his hopping skills. >> great to have you on. it has been called a complete meltdown in georgia. what happened yesterday when voters tried to cast their votes. what a mess. in line for hours.
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absentee ballots never delivered. what went on here? we ask the state's lieutenant governor, next. and now, there's boost mobility... ...with key nutrients to help support... joints, muscles, and bones. try boost mobility, with added collagen.
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officials in georgia are calling for an investigation after this scene played out at polling places yesterday. voters stood in line for hours after a cascade of problems with voting machines. the front page of the atlanta journal constitution calls it this morning a complete meltdown. joining us now is georgia's lieutenant governor, jeff duncan. lieutenant governor duncan, thank you very much for being here. i know yesterday wasn't easy. let me just tick through a litany of the complaints that voters had. poll workers struggled with the new machines. they didn't feel they had had enough training on the new paperless voting system. there were long lines. the touch screens didn't work. they had to process paper ballots by hand. many people never received their absentee ballots. voters had to wait multiple hours in line exposing them to a krooifr risk. how did georgia screw this up so badly?
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>> well, thanks for the opportunity to be here. and you know, the sun is starting to rise and we're starting to gather all the information necessary to figure out the things and the areas where we can improve. i know that here in georgia like many other states, there's a split responsibility between the secretary of state and the local county election offices. and certainly, they're all in that process of doing a deep dive and debriefing on opportunities to improve. you know, i think, you know, you describe many of the issues and the challenges that we faced. we have new machines that are implemented statewide. you've got obviously the coronavirus social distancing and then you've also had a wave of storms come through atlanta and the atlanta metro area. in my particular county, we had no issues. i voted with an absentee ballot. my wife and my 18-year-old son got to vote for the first time and they came home and said that they spent less than 20 minutes in their places. but certainly, we're going to go through a full review here and continue to look for an opportunity to put an even better foot forward in november. >> can you guarantee voters there that this will not happen in november? >> well, certainly, that's the
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goal, right? i think we can all learn from this and hopefully we can continue to really work on training. i think initial feedback is that we can continue to do a much better job as a state and as counties, individual counties, training the poll workers on the equipment and the processes. but also, i want to encourage everybody here in our state to take an opportunity to potentially volunteer. i think some of the feedback we got is there wasn't enough volunteers. and typically, those will be older folks, more on the retired side that typically volunteer in those polling centers and obviously with corona, that creates a little bit of an obstacle. >> it sounds like, as you said here this morning, that you're not that confident or entirely confident that this won't happen again in november. >> well, certainly, we'll do all that we can do to make sure we put an even better foot forward. those techniques will be better training, better education, and like we did in the business world, we'll do a deep dive into the project and understand the
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best foot that we can put forward and better techniques to implement as we go forward. >> let's talk about the ahmad arbry case. georgia is just one of four states that doesn't have a hate crime law. investigators say when ahmaud arbery was shot down, a horrible racial slur was uttered in the commission of that crime. and this week his mother is calling for georgia to change its ways, to change its laws, and she's calling on you specifically. let me play for you what she sai said. >> last year, georgia statehouse moved in the right direction, passing house bill 426, which will impose harsher sentencing for hate crimes. but the bill has been stalled for a year and state and senate leadership refuses to vote on it. chairman jesse sloan and lieutenant governor duncan, please do the right thing.
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state senators are going back into session. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle support this, pass a hate crime law. >> when she says, lieutenant governor duncan, please do the right thing, what's your response to her? >> i don't think there's anything more powerful than somebody's mother making an appe appeal. i'm a father of three boys and look at so many of these situations that continue to arise through the lens of being a father. how do i answer the questions for my own kids as to how does this happen? what's the remedy to this? and so house bill 426 is a bill that came over from the house, over to the senate and over the last four or five weeks, i've decided to try to become a subject matter expert. i've asked a lot of questions and brought in members of the african-american community, members of the democratic party into my office and asked them, what's the best way to move forward and quite honestly, i think we can do better than house bill 426. i've been told by an
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african-american gentlemen sitting in my office that house bill 426, if passed, would be the weakest hate crimes law in the country, and quite honestly, that's not good enough. this past sunday, we were sitting online watching church and our pastor made a comment. he said, it's not enough to not be racist. we've got to be anti-racism. as i look forward to the next 11 days to craft hate crimes bill that make georgia the worst place to commit a hate crime and the best place to love your neighbor. i call on my senators in the senate and in the house to approve the legislation and get it to the governor's desk. >> so you supporti a hate crime law and you believe in the space of two weeks you'll be able to get it done? >> i do. i think we're continuing to build consensus all across the senate. i hope to have a bipartisan effort with support from both parties, as we move forward. because, think about the mechanics of a hate crimes bill have to be just more than words on a page. as we analyze this, we need to
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make sure that we include things like data collection, uniform reporting, we need to make sure that there's an opportunity, potentially for civil resource. we've also got to make sure that we have the opportunity to, instead of just having a sentence enhancement and have it at the soul discretion of the prosecutor, that we actually give the victim to have the opportunity to have a separate charge of a hate crime and make that presentation in a court case. in a courtroom. it's a big ask, but i'm up for the challenge and ready to lead this effort. >> do you think ahmau ahmaud ar murder was a hate crime? >> i think to have to wait months and to watch the process not work, that's troubling also. so i think if we can train law enforcement and prosecutors to understand what is a hate crime, what are the right questions to ask, what's the right training
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to build an investigation around a hate crime? that to me is the way to make this thing continue to trend in a positive direction. >> but yes or no, as of what you know right now, do you believe that ahmhis murder was a hate crime? >> it looks to be a biased case. my job is to make sure we put 11 million georgians in the best position every day. it's important to me to make sure that all 11 million georgians don't fear for any sort of hate crime or bias-motivated crime. >> lieutenant governor duncan, thank you. we really appreciate you coming on this morning. >> thank you for the opportunity. the minneapolis city council is talking about dismantling their police department, as you know. we find out what that could look like from a city that has already done it successfully, next. in a safe place and your child safer.
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members of the minneapolis city council will announce their intentions to dismantle their police department. now, to some people, it might sound like a radical idea, but it wouldn't be the first city in the country to do it.
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the city of camden, new jersey, did it in 2012. joining us now is louis capella. sir, thanks so much for being with us. in 2012, camden disbanded its police department, dissolved it. why? >> we dissolved it because there was a fiscal crisis and there was a public safety crisis. the recession destroyed the financing of the state of new jersey and the city of camden and at the same time, you had a crime rate that was ranked number one in the nation. you had 67 murders in 2012. so change was needed. >> and just to people know, when we say, you dissolved the police department. people are saying, oh, if you dismantle or defund police, it's going to mean anarchy, it's going to mean, there's no law enforcement. the next people, did people wake up and there were no law enforcement or public safety officers on the street? >> not the case at all. for two years, we worked
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together with governor christie and our mayor, dana ray, to come up with a plan to develop a county police department that took the place of the city police department. and we were told all along, this will never work, it will never happen. the unions will fight you. but with the support from the governor on down, we were able to accomplish the absolute dissolution of the city department, which was not doing its job, which was failing misrabblely, and replace it with a county department that was focused on community policing. >> and i do know that about a hundred of the officers who were part of the city department became part of the county police force of about 400 people. so there was some overlap there. and you were talking about the homicide rate in 2012, so people can see the change over the last seven or eight years, it's a 62% decline in the homicide rate in camden, new jersey, since that change was made. that's a positive move. now, it all looks good and sounds good when you put that number up on the screen. but we should note that
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minneapolis is four times, five times the size of camden, new jersey. what are the risks? what does minneapolis need to know about the challenges of doing this? >> listen, the challenges will come, because change never comes easy. but if your philosophy in community policing is to engage the residents of your city in the development of a new force or in the reform of a new force, and you put that philosophy into practice, whereby the residents give you input on how you police, what kind of officers you hire, and you start building that trust with your residents and you have a relationship with your residents, you will see crime drop. a big part of why crime has dropped so drastically in camden city is the fact that our residents are now our partners. they trust or police. they see our police as guardians. our police officers have block parties. they go into the schools to read to schoolchildren. and each day, when there's a new
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officer hitting the street, he goes door to door in the neighborhood he is serving, hands out his card to residents and says, call me. if you need anything, give me a call. don't just call me in times of trouble. so we're getting a lot of information from our residents working out very well. there are still challenges, but we need those challenges. >> can that be done? why is that different than dissolving and rebuilding, than it would be to say, we're going to implement these changes. we're going to say, you have to go knock on doors and introduce yourself. >> for us it was easier because the rules and the relatigulatiof the city department were unsustainable. they were too expensive. our superior officers had very little discretion on how to even deploy officers. so at any given time, the highest number of police officers on the street in camden city were like 8 to 12 officers,
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which simply was a horrific situation and led to a high crime rate, so by wiping the slate clean, we are able to start with new union contracts, new rules and regulations and we took all the savings that we were able to garner and put them into hiring more officers. so we have tripled the number of officers on the street. and they are literally walking and biking the street every day. >> one thing i do want to note, the statistics i've seen, it hasn't led to a more diverse police force in camden county at this point, has it. >> it is a bit more diverse. we have about a 52% minorities make up our force. that number would be higher, but the current new jersey civil service rules and regulations prevent us from getting to the numbers we want to have. they employ these tests to hire police officers, to promote officers, and those tests, frankly, are racially biased, outdated, and really need to go away or be modified
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significantly. we are doing our absolutely best to make the force as diverse as possible. >> as people hear the debate about dismantling or defunding police forces around the country, what do they need to know? because it really does -- when you say the sentence, people go, huh? are you serious? that sounds scary. but what do people need to know? >> people need to know, first of all, we did not defund, we're actually investing more in our police department -- we're doing it smartly. we're investing in technology and in training. de-escalation training, community policing training. that's where funds need to be invested. so, listen, it's not one model fits all. you have to customize this model to your situation and facts, but if you start with the premise that people want to be treated with respect and people want to have input into their law enforcement service that's provided to them, i think you'll do well. >> all right, louis cappelli, great discussion.
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thanks for being with us. all right, we have breaking news on the future of the republican national convention. when will we hear an announcement about the new location? that's next.
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we have some breaking political news. president donald trump is ready to announce the new city where he will accept the republican nomination. cnn's jeff zeleny is live in jacksonville, florida, with the breaking details. what have you learned? >> alisyn, good morning. we are told that president trump is poised to announce the city where he will accept the nomination for his second term by the republican party. i'm told he will announce it as early as tomorrow, perhaps friday. he, of course, is doing this after he said he did not want the convention to be in charlotte, north carolina, after a bit of a dispute there with the democratic governor. and one reason that jacksonville
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is a leading contender, i'm told, not a final choice, but a leading contender is because this is trump country. here. is a republican mayor of course, a republican city council, as well as a republican governor of the state of florida. but we have spent the last several days here talking to trump voters, his base supporters about how they view his re-election. from front yards to a storefront campaign office, science of tig president's re-election are blossoming in trump country, which more than ever these days feels like a world away from washington. >> sometimes, you look at him and you go, okay, that may have been crossing a line, but he means well. he loves our country. >> reporter: here in jacksonville and northern florida, the trump army is mobilizing for november, promoting the president's record, and not dwelling on his rhetoric. >> for me, specifically, it's the judiciary. >> reporter: steve adams, a retired naval aviator, believes trump's most important legacy is building a conservative federal
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bench. that, alone, he says, warrants a second term. it's not that trump supporters aren't watching events unfold across the country. they simply view them through a different lens that many americans. from the photo op outside st. john's church last week. >> i thought he was displaying support for the christian church and that historic church, but i thought he was very, very brave to walk there. >> reporter: to the blistering criticism from decorated military leaders, like former defense secretary, james mattis, and colin powell. >> mattis has his opinion. powell has his. but there are so many, many republican leaders who are solidly behind the president. that he's going to continue to have a large base of support. >> reporter: the question is whether that base is enough to win. with one poll after another showing an erosion for trump among independents and women. dean black, the local republican
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chairman, says he doesn't believe those poll. >> i don't think independent voters are going to be turned off in way that's damaging to president trump and the republican party. >> reporter: in 2016, trump carried duyvil county, which includes all of jafl, cksonvilly slightly more than one point and neighboring st. johns county by 30 points. it's that combination he'll need to win florida again. >> i love jacksonville. i love it. >> reporter: jacksonville is now being considered by the trump campaign for the party's august convention, which prompted cries of outrage today. mayor lenny curry, a republican, removed a confederate statue early tuesday morning and hours later marched alongside peaceful protesters. >> one of the issues facing your city is president trump's re-election. does his rhetoric make it more difficult for you to do your job? >> i have no problem with doing my job. i signed up for this. >> reporter: the trump campaign's tv ads here address the president's style head-on. >> president trump's not always
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polite. mr. nice guy won't cut it. >> reporter: and that sentiment is echoed in conversations with one trump voter after another here. >> i have issues with his approach to things, but i don't feel the democratic candidate right now is very strong or would be payable to talk the nation further. so, come november, i probably will support him again. unless there's just a total collapse. >> reporter: so talking to so many trump voters, it is clear that they, indeed, are excited. the question is, has the president, will he be able to expand beyond his base? it is those voters in the middle, of course, and those who voted for him four years ago, are they excited or exhausted at the prospect of a second term for the president? but it is one of the reasons that jacksonville the being considered, i'm told, a top contender for the republican convention. the president wants to accept it in a place he's welcome. that means republican leadership and jacksonville certainly fits
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that bill. but john, i am told that the president again is likely to make that announcement as early as tomorrow, perhaps on friday in a presidential tweet. >> no doubt. presidential tweet. i bet you republican senators will react to that tweet. they'll see that one. jeff zeleny, great to have you in jacksonville. terrific reporting. thanks for being with us. we have a developing story this morning. president trump reportedly wanted to fire defense secretary mark esper because he didn't back the president's threat to use active duty troops to put down nationwide protests. "the wall street journal" says advisers talked him out of it. esper broke with the president last week, saying active duty troops should be used in a law enforcement role only as a last resort. the report says esper, aware of the president's anger, had actually started to prepare a letter of resignation. >> that's very interesting, john. thank you. all right, let's talk about how coronavirus spreads. do asymptomatic people spread it or not? the w.h.o caused a lot of confusion this week.
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professor aaron bromage helps us get the answers to so many covid questions, next. .
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they are compelled to step to the front lines. and into the unknown... for all of us. the world health organization tried to clarify the confusing comments about whether asymptomatic people can spread coronavirus. >> we do know that some people who are asymptomatic or some people who don't have symptoms can transmit the virus on. what we need to better understand is how may of the people in the population don't
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have symptoms and separately, how many of those individuals go on to transmit to others. and so what i was referring to yesterday in the press conference were a very few studies. >> okay. joins us now is our new cnn contributor, and professor, great to have you in the cnn family because you're a fount of knowledge on this stuff. we are glad to be able to rely on you and so what is the answer? how often are asymptomatic people spreading coronavirus? >> well, the problem with this, with world health authority communicating uncertainty is really difficult. that's what they were trying to get across yesterday with their message. we really don't have good data on asymptomatic people and it may be better to say asymptomatic. they never progress to developing any signs of disease.
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the estimates are around about 16 to 25%, but the problem is at the start of this pandemic we focused all our effort on the people that were sick or around people that were sick. and so our testing and tracing effort focused on them. we haven't put the effort into contact tracing those people that get near an infected person and never develop disease and look at what their role is in the change of transmission of the virus through our community. >> okay. so it sounds like we need to wait to get more information on that. in the meantime, let's just go through some back to normal activities that everybody is wondering that we can do now that so many states are reopening. all states are in a level of reopening. number one, hand shakes. are we ever going to shake hands again? >> i think so. i mean, i miss handshakes. they are risky to do now because
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we are so trained to shake hands, but this enrub our eyes our touch our mouth. it's going to take a while to come back. i remember watching a movie and two people shook hands and i was like, don't you know the rules, but it was a movie and it was filmed five years ago. i think we'll get back there eventually but it will take some time and we need to understand the virus better. we need a better treatment before normality with that type of thing comes back again. >> you know, one thing that i miss more than shaking hands is hugging people. my children have not hugged my mom for months. when -- are we allowed to hug people now or not? >> so the infection control person in me says no. but there are ways to do it if you're in a community where the current prevalence of the virus is quite low, where you can --
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you know, a child hugging a grandparent can hug them around the waist. their faces never come anywhere near each other. they do it outdoors, there are creative ways to do be able to do it and to do it responsibly and reducing the risk. >> i have heard that you can hug if you have a mask on and you turn your head away from the other person. >> yeah. i mean, if you do a proper hug where your faces go past each other and head on shoulders, as long as you don't turn your head towards the person that you're hugging and you're wearing masks. we are getting rid of the problem of those respiratory droplets going in someone's face so now we're just dealing with contact. it's the skin to skin, it's the hand to hand. you just make sure that you wash your hands, you make sure that you sanitize your hands after the hug. >> i'm starting that this afternoon. airplanes. are we allowed to go on airplanes now? >> yeah. so airplanes seem like they're just that perfect mix of lots of
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people in the enclosed space for the virus to run through, but inside the airplane they have incredible filtration and air exchange. they have had to do that for 15, 20 years because they know that potentially pathogens can move through that population very quickly. so they have had to put those things in place and they have been there for a long time. i think flying if you are at high risk, if you have high blood pressure, if you are overweight, it's probably not worth it under any almost circumstance. but if you have a good reason for flying, there's a necessity that you need to fly, there's a risk involved but i think you can take that risk if your own personal risk is lower because of your health and age. >> and you just keep your mask on throughout the whole flight? >> yeah. that's something that we really need to work out is all the airlines are requiring mask usage but i'm seeing some pretty variable enforcement on it, on
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planes. it really comes down to i protect you, you protect me. if we're only getting a few percentage of the -- it's more than 90% of the people are buying in but if a few people don't they're ruining it for everybody. so we have to work out how if we're going to lower our anxiety with a plane, we are expecting to see everyone wearing a mask. >> i'm asking you this next question on behalf of john berman. haircuts, is it safe now to go into a hair salon and get your hair cut? >> so i had a hair cut two weeks ago. i could no longer continue cutting my own hair. we did it a little differently. we went and visited our hairdresser. she had set up a chair out on the driveway and my entire family just went through and all had haircuts with her outside
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and it was great. it was low risk. we had one single pod unit coming in there. so she wasn't getting the chance of multiple exposures because we're considered just one single part. >> right. but i mean going into the hair salon. >> so into the hair salon is definitely going to be a little bit more risky. but again, it can be managed if you think about how to do it from the employer's point of view, we keep the number of people down, we don't have wait. we don't have long haircuts. we wear masks all the way through the procedure. through the haircut. it can be done. you just are assuming a high level of risk but you can mitigate that risk. >> you know i have a tv monitor in the studio here and you know entire careers were built off of helmets like this. this is nothing anything to fear, it's something to respect. >> i agree.
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i don't want you to change it, but you were wondering when to get a haircut. >> it wasn't me, but many viewers who seem to be concerned. deeply concerned that something was wrong. >> professor, thank you very much for all of the information and congratulations on your haircut. >> thank you. have a great day. >> you too. "new day" continues right now. >> a new report that former officer derek chauvin was in talks to take a plea deal before he was arrested. >> when we come out and march in the streets at the risk of our health, you should have taken the knee off his neck. >> the brother of george floyd will testify before the house judiciary committee. this virus is still out there it's in every state, it's very infectious. >> nationwide we are still averaging over 20,000 new cases every day. >> now we have something that indeed turned out to be my worst
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nightmare. this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> good morning, welcome to our viewers around the united states and around the world. this morning to an extent, change is here. 12 cities and municipalities including washington, d.c., have just moved to ban chokeholds by law enforcement officers. the police chief from one of the cities joins us live in a few minutes. today, the brother of george floyd will testify before the house judiciary committee. house democrats have just proposed sweeping reforms to plicing. republicans led by senator tim scott are drafting plans of their own. so the default position as we have said is reform and that is a very big change. there is one person though largely absent from the discussion, at least now, and that's the president. his contribution has been to spread this horrific lie about a 75-year-old man w


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