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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  June 19, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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put together that overwhelm the world. he was right. even if it didn't butterfly effect into the politics. can any of us say our lives wouldn't be better if we were conscientious about practicing kindness. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" starts now. >> you said it, brother. even the conversations we have here. people take it out of context. some of the guys in studio said you didn't get a chance to say everything you wanted to say. we need to give people more lee way in conversations. because that's the way you discuss things and we know that. when we go and talk to people in person. we say, this is the difficult conversations that you have. not everything is perfect. we're not perfect. the wrong word or take something out of context.
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lately people are way too out there and crazy. and divided. >> look at themselves. they need to the expression be the change that they want to see. we're mean. people are mean. one of the things i love most about our friendship. if it didn't work on tv. sure, we don't agree about things and we don't get angry. i love him, he's my friend. if we don't agree we talk it out. off camera. people abandoned that. they think if they're angry and hostile they're right and strong. and wrong. >> speaking of hos time. you were mad when you figured out my fiancee is an inch taller than you. this weekend. >> he is shorter than i say i used to be. it has done my dirty. thanks for bringing that up.
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>> i have an important guest. cory booker. i have to get to him. see you soon. >> great guest. >> this is "cnn tonight" i'm don lemon. joe biden just came out with a really strong defense to the controversy over comments he made at a fundraiser. while touting his campaign theme about his long record of bringing opposites sides to the to get things doeb. he talked about working in the senate in the 1970s with mississippi sooner james oh east land and georgia senator. avid seg gre gagsists and civil rights. saying this. i was in a caucus with james eastland. he never called me boy. always son. guess what? at least there was some civility. we got things done. we didn't agree on much. we got things done. we got it finished. today you look at the other side
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and you're the enemy. not the opposition. we don't talk to each other anymore. his rivals pouncing on his remarks and saying he should apologize. senator booker is here now. he said you don't joke about calling black men boy. men like james use words like that. in the racist policies that accompany them for white sprem si and strip black americans of human humanity. tonight biden is saying booker owes him an apology. senator booker joins me now. thank you so much. listen, i said he came back strong. i don't know if you think the defense was strong. what do you think specifically? >> i was surprised he didn't apologize. and i should have known better and should apologize. >> i couldn't have disagreed with him more.
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he was a segregationist. i disa greeed with the views. as i led the judiciary committee i was able to talk about the vote rights act and pass the act while when i was a young senator. when he was the chairman. he voted against it and beat him in the vote rights act. the point is you don't have to agree. you don't have to like the people in terms of their views. you simply make the case and beat them. without changing the system. apologize for what? he should apologize. he knows better. there's not a racist bone in my body. i have been involved in civil rights my whole career. period. period, period. >> are you going to apologize? >> the vice president said i should no better this is what i know. as black man in america i know
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the harmful and hurtful use of the word boy. to dehumanize and degrade. segregation through laws and language. deeply wounded this nation and the present day manifestation of the work can be seen in black and brown communities like the one i go home to. i know that somebody running for president of the united states somebody running to be the leader of the party, should know that using the word boy in the way he did can cause hurt and pain. we need a presidential nominee and leader of the party. to be sensitive to that. the last thing is i know that i was raised to speak truth to power. and that i will never apologize for doing that. and vice president biden shouldn't need this lesson. and at a time when we have from the highest office in the land,
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a divisiveness. racial hatred and bigotry. he should have the sensitivity to know that this is a time i need to be an ally and healer. and not engage in words that will harm folks. this is deeply dispinted. he didn't apologize until the next day. and whether i'm running for president or not. as many people today have been on juneteenth. calling out for the vice president to acknowledge his words were harmful and hurtful. >> that means no apology. >> no. >> what do you make of the defense of the original vote rights act and his work he's done with civil rights? >> again, i don't understand why he needs this lesson. i know you know this. when he says almost jokingly remember he was mocking a southern accent when he said it. they didn't call me boy. they called me son. they call young white man son is because these racists can see in
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him themselves. the reason why they call black men boy, was an attempt to establish the other. to dehumanize and degrade. for him not to understand this and why people would take a deep offense to the way he used and dredged up this awful language, and this is the thing that we need leaders that can bring us to more healing and more understanding. we all say in politics things we regret or didn't come out right. the fact he's not apologizing. >> and correct him. in his remarks. part he says he didn't call him boy. a seen your adviser says thoeld the story countless types and usually phrases it he never called me senator. he called me son. would it matter if he told it differently? >> the guy running to be the head of the party. a significantly diverse and wonderous party. doesn't understand or
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acknowledge he made a mistake. whether the intention was there or not. that was stunning to me. he's falling back into the defensive crowds that people say which is cory called me a racist. im not racist. it's not what i said and not what i'm calling him. this is the problem. he knows better. and at a time of the donald trump never apologizes for anything. and creates that kind of i think toxic sentiment that you never apologize. i know joe biden. he's better than this. this is a moment he should have spoken to the issue. allowed everybody to learn and move on. those are the things that unite leaders and heals and helps would do. and this is a disappointment. >> you're not comparing what biden said to the comments of -- >> again. absolutely not. i know joe biden. i'm saying that for him not to
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acknowledge how many people are taking this as hurtful. to dredge up that word to use it in the way he did. >> simple, i should not have said that. would have been fine. >> even if he could have helped acknowledge what it brings up. acknowledge the issue. >> you know symone sanders. saying something similar on twitter. joe biden does he make a point that you need to sometimes work with people who disagree with? so that's basically what she said. >> again, anybody knows my campaign knows the way i work. i work across the aisle all the time. this is not what we're talking about. we're talking about racial issues in america. and how there are still hurt and harm, issues to be dealt with. and for someone to show the lack of understanding or sebs sensitivity to know when they made a mistake.
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and fall into the defense and say i'm not apologize that i should apologize to him? is a problem. >> this is i think you find yourselves in a very unusual position. meaning the democratic party. especially the candidates. when you have trump in the white house. who never apologizes and says whatever he wants to say. no matter what. and then i don't know what the former president thinks about this. he says what he's concerned about is democrats in the firing squad. circle firing squad. you will beat each other up more than the person you're running against. meaning donald trump. is there some truth in it for this particular issue? >> this is beyond politics. if i was not a candidate, i would call this out. i have had the reality of having a father -- the indignity to
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watch another man call my father boy. to have myself have older men when i was a man to use those kind of terms. these are the kinds of things that cause hurt and harm. these are the kind of things we should have an expectation of somebody who running for the president of the united states seeking to be the leader of the party. can speak to. this is not about our politics or presidential campaign. or a firing squad. this is a sensitivity. this is an issue that we need to speak to in this country. not sweep it under the rug. if you want to put it in political context, there are communities like the one i live in that want to believe that we're going to have someone that's going to fight for them. he talks about his sterling civil rights record. he should speak to his record. as someone who has seen what the 1994 crime bill did, in communities like mine. this is a time not to try to
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fall back into sweeping statements. talk to the issues that are still causing harm and hurt. the language and the legislation and for biden not to understand that he should be talking to the issues as someone who he aspires to be that can heal the nation. bring it together. not to do the insults rhetoric. >> it's problemic that he asked you to apologize. what do you mean by that? >> the fact he is has said something that an african american man can find very offensive and turn around and say i'm not a racist. apologize to me. as opposed to angela davis used to say, it is not in a time of racism it's not enough to say i'm not racist. be antiracist.
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what we need from a presidential candidate, from each other, is to be allies. to be seeking understanding. to be seeking empathy. none of us are perfect. we'll say things that are wrong. to recognize that and take the step to admit to that. for his posture to be to me i have done nothing wrong, you should apologize. i'm not a racist. is so insulting and so missing the larger point. he should not have to have explained to him. it shouldn't be a lesson that somebody running for the president of the united states should have to be given. >> thank you for addressing that. talking about something you addressed today. you testified today along with coats and glover. before a house panel on reparations for slavery. >> the stain of slavery was not just inked in bloodshed but in the overt state sponsored policies that fuelled racism and have disadvantaged african
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americans economically for generations. >> so what do you think, this hearing fell on juneteenth. emancipation day. celebrates end of slavery. and introduced a bill on the senate side. to do what? >> it's calling for a larger commission. bring the best mind to america together to study the legacy of slavery. the legacy of many of the overtly racist policies that stemmed from it. white supreme si. jim crow. and thousands were lynched up to 1950. laws to exclude african americans or disadvantage them. g.i., social security. that led to the savage inequalities that we have today. the disparities in wealth. healthcare. in education opportunities. and this is something that we're
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saying is bringing folk together to study it, come up with proposals to address it. people who are trying to under mine this saying it's about one person taking money from one and write checks. that's not what this is about. understanding when you have savage inequality. it hurts everyone. it under mines the well being of the country. the wealth and success of the country. we all have a moral obligation given the ugly past to figure out a way to balance the playing field and prosper better. and address injustice and have a nation -- >> what's interesting. people are saying it's not going to work. before studying the problem. they want the solution before the bill is even put into the floor. to try to figure out how to do it. you have to figure out how to do it. to figure out the solution. am i wrong? >> you're right. brilliant folks are coming together. why are we prejudging this.
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and afraid of folks sitting down and having conversations. we should have had this hearing a long time ago. >> mitch mcconnell dismissing the idea. >> i don't think reparations for something that happened 150 years ago for whom none of us current living is responsible is a good idea. we tried to deal with our original sin of slavery. by fighting a zcivil war and passing civil rights legislation. we elected an african american president. i think we're always a work in progress. and this country. but, no one currently alive was responsible for that. >> so after him saying that, the only african american republican senator tim scott backed him up saying he doesn't think
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reparations are plausible. >> i'm not sure what first of all what he said. it doesn't need to be addressing. to equate democratically electing african americans. that he said he would do everything possible to make him not successful. the out rage of the statement. but to say reparations are not plausible assumes that we have a common definition of what the word means. and the way i look at it, we are dealing with historic systemic patterns of racism that manifest today in inequality. we should not believe health out comes, the criminal justice system, financial well being should stratified based upon race. unless you believe somehow different racial groups are inferior. the fact we have cities like boston where the average white family has $240,000 of wealth.
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and the black family has $8. speaks to some larger tectonic causes that we have to address. >> the wealth gap in america. the study shows the median white household is ten times wealthier than the black one. i have to ask you. you're proposing baby bonds to help with the racial wealth gap. do you see that in reparations? part of the same conversation. >> i say to folks let's bring together a study for people in the best mind of the country to make proposals. again, i'm not going to wait. i want to do it had right now to deal with income gaps. a nation where 40% of the country has very little wealth. to negative wealth. to pass onto families. paychecks help you get by. wealth helps you get ahead. in this society as we use tax codes to move wealth. to get more wealth. that's what the tax code does.
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let's have something that says if every child in america gets a child savings account. depending on your family's income. you get $2,000. by the time they're 18 they'll have 40, $50,000 to invest. to create generational wealth. from going to college, starting a business, buying a home. what that does because you have disproportionate income for families often seen in race is that this is actually going to virtually eliminate the racial wealth gap. ideas like this are policy ideas i have been putting forward. i fought to end the crack cocaine disparity. i led it from the democratic senate side. and when we got the disparity retro active. it released thousands from jail. 96% of them were black and brown people. so i was consideration that that was going to have a racial impact because the laws in a
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criminal justice system filled with racial bias. those laws were having that negative racial out come. solving these things, putting forward common sense solutions. whether it's baby bonds. or reform to the criminal justice system. would help balance the playing field. i'm open. as we should be. to the best ideas to get the country to the point where we are nation of liberty and justice for all. that doesn't help black folks, it makes us all wealthier as nation. and again, i started my testimony by talking about the seven people shot. about a few hundred yards from where i live last night. i imagine other senators don't have this in their community. i live in a community below the poverty line. there were no headlines about seven people being shot. we have communities right now that were walled off by red lining. and racist mortgage policies.
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we're seeing these problems today. the person that was killed in that community, we are the possibility the potential of the child. when we address inequality and the under lining of things that held back or under mine the success of folks. we all will benefit from the genius of children and the endless possibilities of that human beings in the country have shown. when they have a fair shot. >> that needs to be studied when studying reparations. >> thank you. come back for a longer time. >> i'm grateful for the opportunity. >> thank you, senator. joe biden is a front runner among democrats in the polls. but do his remarks put him as odds with the democratic party of 2019? a lot to talk about. straight ahead. do you have a tr? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip.
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is much adieu about nothing. >> i couldn't have disagreed with jim eastland more. he was a segregationist. i ran for the united states senate because i disagreed with the views. and many senators at the time. i led the judiciary committee and talking about the voting rights act. i passed the act while when i was a young senator when he was the chairman. he voted against it and i beat him. the point i'm making is, you don't have to agree. you don't have to like the people in terms of their views. but you make the case and beat them. you beat them. without changing the system. >> are you going to apologize? >> for what? >> he called for it. >> cory should apologize. he knows better. there's not a racist bone in my body. i have been involved in civil rights my whole career. period. period, period. >> a senior adviser says had
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told the story of being called son by the senator many times. he usually says he called him son and not senator. because he didn't respect how young he was when he became a senator. the biden retelling the story. and substituting the racially charged term boy. for senator. changes the way it lands of because of the way white people demean black grown men calling them boy. which didn't end with segregation. it happens today. and aid say he has been warned to drop the story. he could get into trouble. they sensed it wouldn't be popular with voters to say he was civil with segregationist. it's an issue for him. it raises the question is he done deaf. out of step with the 2019 democratic party. he's going directly after president trump. labeling him the divider in chief. but he's being called out by
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democratic not trump. who did an interview. and didn't go onto attack mode over it. but, as we just saw with senator booker, bideens rivals wasted no time criticizing him today. and they're ebb titled to do so. >> to cotle the reputation of segregationists. of people who had their way. i would not be standing here at the united states senate. is just it's misinformed and wrong. >> i'm not here to criticize other democrats. it's never okay to celebrate g segregation. never. >> democrats want to be to beat donald trump who said far far worse things. out right racist. and call those out. trump never apologizes. democrats are showing the elector they will be playing by different rules. many different rules. rules president trump doesn't
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tonight, joe piden fighting off critics and defending comments about working with segregationist senators in year past saying there's not racist bone in my body. good to have you on. we have a lot of ground to cover. biden is firing back at booker. i want to play this again. watch this. >> are you going to apologize? >> for what? he should apologize.
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he knows better. there's not a racist bone in my body i have been involved in civil rights my whole career. period, period period. >> karen, it's not just he's doubling down. it's not just booker. it's harris and sanders and so on. why do you think he doesn't see an issue with the remarks? >> he's trying to -- clearly his staff has tried to say to him this isn't a good example. if you're using an example of working with people across the aisle, there are better more modern examples. from the his time as vice president to obama. how about his relationship with mccain? the other piece having been a young child pulled over on a dark road in virginia, with my father and the police officer called him boy. was the most terrifying moment of my life. so to not understand that it is the terrorism that that word em
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bodies. that is what is so out of stop. particularly a time when donald trump is someone who we believe is inflaming and talk about it all the time, inflaming so much of the sort of -- like charlottesville. this kind of against each other. >> doug, a liltle bit more. watch this. >> i could not have disagreed with jim more. he was a segregationist. i ran for the united states senate because i disagreed with the views of the segregationists. and many senators at the time. as i led the judiciary committee -- the voting rights act. i passed the act while i was a young senator he was the chairman. i beat him in the act. the point is you don't have to agree. you don't have to like the people in terms of their views. but you just simply make the case and beat them. you beat them.
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without changing the system. >> does he make a point? >> to some extent. it remind me of a conversation in 2016. i told him my job was for jessie helm. and emphasized we worked together on a lot. and agreeing with karen having worked for eric canter i know how closely they worked on the violence against women act. that's something he could talk about. talk about john mccain. that's bipartisan and gets under trumps skin. something he's been trying to do. it would be a good way. >> before biden spoke to reporters tonight he spoke at a fundraiser and i want to reach this exchange. that he had. read this exchange he had with the audience. biden, thanks for letting me play in this contest. it's going to be pretty ugly.
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the audience member says take them on. he says here's the deal, i'm not going to participate. how long do you think he can stay above the fray and not participate? >> you can't -- it's not about staying above the fray and not participating. when you actually make an error either in judgment or in your comment like when you talk about the hyde act. he realized whether it was a political mistake or change of heart. he recognized it and made the course correction. that is not the same thing as being pulled down into the mud with donald trump and his barrage of lies. it is about acknowledging who we are in 2019, and the fact that we have to be a party that stands in opposition to the kind of hate amongering that we see from the president. >> thank you for your time. we'll have more to discuss. thank you so much. should descendants of slaves get paid reparations? it's coming to a conclusion on
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joe biden comments about working with civilly with segregationists senators rubbing democrats the wrong way. it comes as congress holding a hearing to consider legislations to make reparations for slavery. this testimony is powerful. >> yesterday when asked about reparations. mitch mcconnell offered a familiar reply. america shouldn't be held liable for something that happened 150 years ago. since none of us currently live are responsible. this proffers a strange theory of governance. that american accounts are bound
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by the lifetime of the generations. well into the century the united states was still paying pensions to the heirs of civil war soldiers. we honor treaties that date back 200 years. despite nobody being alye that signed the treaties. many of us would love to be taxed for the things we are solely and individually responsible for. we are american citizens. bound to a collective enterprise that extends beyond our individual and personal reach. it was seem ridiculous to dispute the founders or the greatest generation. on the basis of a lack of membership in either group. >> the senate majority leader is not alone in opposing reparations. >> there are serious questioning about this from all sides of the political spectrum. and honest and sincere questions. putting aside the injustice of monetary reparations from skurnt taxpayers for the sins of a
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small americans from many generations ago. let me finish. the fair distribution of reparations would be nearly impossible once one considers the complexity of the american struggle to abolish slavery. consider this. tens of millions of today's non-african americans descended from people who arrived in the country after slavery ended and can't be held responsible for its legacy. >> the conversation continues right after this break. with doctor corn el west. h lash. see a denser, thicker-looking lash fringe in just 4 weeks. i would highly recommend it to anyone. with lash serum solution, 7 out of 10 women saw fewer lashes lost during makeup removal. my husband has noticed a difference. i really love lash serum. over 10,000 women have tried it and love it. try new lash serum solution.
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slavery. motions strong on both sides of the issue. good evening to both of you. john just showed up. he he's just in the building. let's have the conversation. it's serious and important. dr. west you heard the majority leader argument and many people make that same argument. it was 150 years ago. no one today is responsible. is that what reparations is about? >> no. reparations is about truth and it's about justice. condition of truth allows suffering to speak. justice what does fair bs look like in america. that's precisely what we heard this morning. i thought brother coats was wonderful. the sister was magnificent. danny glover was strong and cory booker was wonderful. i must say that brother biden ought to be shamed of what he
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said about brother cory. let me put that out right now. in this the spirit of this. talk about reparations. brother john and i for example we might disagree. we recognize we could be wrong. we are open to counter arguments and we learn and listen. and look like brother biden didn't want to learn or lesson. he tightened up and became dogmatic. let's look at the yulology. and the crime bill of 84. let's look at ways in which you could have been wrong and given a chance to say you could be wrong and you're sorry about that. no, he backs up and without this spirit we're not going to get too far about reparations or any other issue. >> dr. west says you may disagree on this issue. you say the great society is reparation enough here and how programs from the 1960s make
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reparations for slavery. and all other injustice since. that is makes up for that. explain that? >> i don't disagree with the idea of reparations. if somebody said should there be reparations /sin terms of jim crow, even in terms of red lining, i would say, yeah. and i honestly believe. this is not some debate team think. it happened. if anybody wants to say i'm just a linguist and i don't know my history, well, frankly, i do know my history. if anyone wants to look at one example, what happened during the great society and you look at all the programs and how much money was put in. those were reparations, they didn't happen to use the word, but that was already tried and the fact is social history is complicated, and i think that what we need to do now is do all sorts of things that can help poor black people be less poor. it's not that we don't have work to do, but the idea that we need to get, frankly, a bunch of
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mostly white people in business clothes to say i'm sorry and to cut some checks, i don't think it would be very effective, and the main thing, briefly, is that i'm afraid based on how people felt after the great society and also the fact that i think that we as a people have a battered psychology because of all the terrible things that happened to us and it can be hard to have a self-directed sense of identity. i think that after reparations happened, if it happened, then immediately practically before the ink was dry on the legislation, the smart thing would be to say reparations was just the beginning, that they better not think they can treat us like animals for 400 years and pay us off. the idea would be for smart black people and fellow travellers to say that reparations really weren't that important. don, this is the problem. if that's what it would be like, and, frankly, i really do imagine that that's what it would be like. nobody would want to say america has turned a corner, that the shoe has dropped, that mesh has come to terms. the idea would be, be wary.
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it's not over and that didn't matter. if that's what people are going to say, why do it? why not just fight black poverty and then have a little thank you session afterwards where people say they're sorry and cut some checks? >> go ahead, dr. west. >> no, i think that part of it is just having the courage to acknowledge that we happen to have a fragile experiment in democracy that's founded on two monstrous crimes against humanity. dispossession of land and the near annihilation of indigenous peoples and enslavement of precious african peoples. now, that doesn't exhaust all of america. that's the worst of america. there is the best of america, but first it's that acknowledgement. as long as you live in denial, you're not going to get there. that's the issue of truth. let's be truthful about who america has been and who it is, and the fact that jim crow as the great orlando patterson says was neoslavery pure and simple that inspired naziism, it
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inspired hitler, it inspired german fascism. so you had another 90 years of neoslavery and that constituted an intraictal part of the possibilities of our precious white brothers and sisters from europe to come in and move to the front of the jim crow bus while we're pushed to the back after having built the country with our free labor enslaved upped these vicious circumstances. let's just come to terms with that truth. but let me just say this quickly, though, because there is a lot of talk about slavery as the original sin. we got to get off that. that is not true. we can't talk about black suffering in such a way that it downplays the treatment of indigenous people. the slavery became center, of course, because it was our labor that would build the country and generate all of these possibilities in terms of sustaining what we understand american democracy in its truncated form is all about. >> don, all i think is that,
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yes, all of what brother west said is true, but i think that this reparations issue is a really interesting turning point. you know, i've been saying for 20 years now that i think reparations already happened. you know, i could get behind this idea that we would have to have what i would internally call new reparations, and i would apply my pen and my voice to it. i might surprise a lot of people. i could try to get behind this. one must change. one must be open to things. but i really do think that the people who are arguing for this need to consider what it would feel like to admit, not that things are perfect, but that america had turned a corner and as brother west says, that we have come to terms. when are we ever going to come to terms? as a black person, i would like to feel whole. if this isn't going to be constructive, we shouldn't do it, but i'm afraid that a lot of black people in the united states would be uncomfortable with the idea that something really significant had been done. because i think a lot of us feel
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that being victims is the only way that we are legitimate, and that's because of what happened for 400 years. i understand. but it worries me. let's do reparations and allow that it mattered and be whole or let's just not do it. >> i've got to go. >> this is fascinating, brother don. >> if you can respond in ten seconds. >> but i do want to say this, i do want to say this, william dougherty. yvette cornell and tony amore. the legacy of queen mother moore. it's something that we must come to terms with so that the voices are able to come together, accenting the specificity of the black condition but also as citizens. this is why brother bernie's so important. we need redistribution of wealth based on citizenship, but we've also got to come to terms with these monstrous crimes that don't have to deal with citizenship. i know you don't have enough time. it's a beautiful thing on your tv show. >> well, listen, i got to say,
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and john you said, listen, dr. west, you always say profound things. you talked about the black psychology and how we were beat up -- you said as a black person i would like to feel whole. i think you make some really great points with that because when you talk about having the sort of psychology that you say that would move us forward, a lot of people resist that. and i've gotten beaten up for that. >> i've seen it. >> so have you. so has dr. west. a lot of us do when we talk about those things. listen, this conversation is to be continued. >> i hope so. >> it was fascinating. we'll be right back. -and we welcome back gary, who's already won three cars, two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don't have to buzz in. it's not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 -- [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 -- [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann -- [ ding ] -brahms' "lullaby," or "wiegenlied."
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this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. democratic front-runner joe biden fighting back and refusing to apologize tonight for talking about the civility of two well-known segregationists. biden was discussing his long record of bringing opposite sides together to get things done and brought up working with mississippi senator james o. eastland and georgia senator in the 1970s, both segregationists and opponents of civil rights. biden at one point saying, "i was in a caucus with james o. eastland. he never called me boy. he always called me son. well, guess what? at least there was some civility. we got things done. we didn't agree on much of anything. we got things done. we got itin

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