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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  July 31, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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destructive california fire this. goes back as far as records have been held for nearly 100 years. as we mentioned as well, four of those have happened in the last two years. so, wolf, this is far from over. we are going to be dealing with this for the next couple of days. hopefully though by next week a paraphernalia change. >> jennifer thanks for that. thanks very much for watching, "erin burnett out front" starts right now. out front next breaking news. prosecutors call former trump campaign manager paul manafort a shrewd liar. his defense? blame his former deputy. plus a republican out with a campaign ad reading art of the deal with his infant son. teaching his daughter how to build a wall with her blocks, trump is stumping for him at this hour. and former governor christie
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todd whitman is my guest. let's if out front. good evening. i'm erin burnett. breaking news, a shrewd leader, how president trump's lawyers are painting paul manafort. a jury of six men and six women listening as heweller's team outlined its case describing manafort as a con artist who ran a global scheme to avoid paying millions in taxes. prosecutors say manafort made $60 million in ukraine and that he didn't report to it the irs. they say he had 30 bank accounts in just three foreign countries which he used in part to store untaxed income to spend on luxury goods like range rovers, a watch costing $21,000, a $15,000 custom made ostrich jacket. who doesn't need one of those, right? the defense hitting back saying manafort is the victim that he was taken advantage of by the man he trusted most rick gates, his right hand man in ukraine and his deputy in the trump
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campaign. the many of the strategy, blame it all on gates, the man who lived in against his long time boss, the man the government describes as the government's star witness. evan is live in virginia. you were there for the opening statements, the first witness. what happened? >> erin was a dramatic day, especially by prosecutors, as they began their opening statements by describing many of the as, quote, a man who believed that the law did not apply to him. essentially talking about the fact that he didn't file income tax -- accurate income tax statements for the years 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014. they went through all of his offshore bank accounts where he apparently according to the prosecutors hid millions of dollars that were paid by these ukrainian oligarchs that he was doing business with. they described as you said 30 bank accounts in three different
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countries. he owns seven homes, including in the hamptons, in florida, and here in alexandria, virginia. they said he spent half a million on fancy clothes. $21,000 on that watch and $15,000 on that ostrich jacket. essentially they made it clear that his extravagant life-style, their words, was going to be on trial here because they said this is what paul many of the was using these offshore banks accounts in cypress and in other places to hide the money from the irs. >> interesting, evan, because it doesn't sound like at least from what we heard today that the defense is going to be, no, we did pay our taxes. it sounds like it's going to be a defense of okay, fine but it's rick gates's fault? >> kind of a defense of blame it on that guy. rick gates was his deputy who worked closely with him not only in business in ukraine. but also remember, erin, he was his deputy working in the trump campaign. matter of fact he stayed on the
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trump campaign after paul manafort was fired. so blame it on rick gates. he was the one who was closely managing these business affairs and blame it on the ukrainian oligarchs who demanded that paul manafort set up these private secret bank accounts in cypress in the st. vincent and the grenadines in order for him to be paid by the ukrainian ole gashes. that's the defense in a nutshell. it's kind of an unusual defense. >> yeah. >> they also say that -- they also say that paul manafort met with the fbi in 2014 and he described these offshore bank accounts. he identified them and he also described that he had gotten paid $27 million in doing business with ukrainians. so we had the first witness already here because this is what's known as a rocket docket here in alexandria, virginia. we had the first witness. we expect in the last couple of days we will hear about the
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accountants and more details about the bank accounts. >> thank you evan. it's all pretty fascinating as evan says he says he me with the fbi is detailed $27 million that he was paid. the government is saying it was 60. so the numbers don't add up. the judge made it clear this trial not collusion or russia but make no mistake, it goes to the heart of mueller's investigation. take this, manafort was trump's campaign chairman. of course in the inner circle for the then candidate. manafort in the infamous tower meeting. manafort reportedly offered the provide quote private briefings on the campaign to a russian oligarch and putin insider. if his trial isn't going well and he is looking at spending the rest of his life behind bars he could flip on the president. this trial is front and center on president trump's mind. jeff zeleny is out front with how the president is following this trial. >> reporter: there two types of strategies here at the white
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house i'm told today. one in public they are trying to distance president trump from any of these proceed saying look paul manafort's business dealings were happening long before he became the campaign chairman and he was the campaign chairman for only a brief period of time. kellyanne conway said she was the winning campaign manager trying to distance and diminish paul manafort's role. make no mistake, two summers ago in cleveland at the republican national convention pout paul many of the the whole floor fight at the convention would have been much more pronounced. he helped the republican party accept donald trump. now i'm told that donald trump is watching the proceedings very carefully. as he was flying down to florida this evening where he is going to be holding a campaign rally tonight i'm told he was watching the proceeding on television. he has been asking for updates from his legal team, lawyers who are following this carefully. it's not about president trump. it's not each about the russia collusion investigation. but they are keeping such a
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close eye on it here at the white house. of course this is bob mueller's first public be case here. for the next three weeks they will say they are not watching, erin. privately i'm told they are. >> certainly are. because this may be about one thing but manafort is linked to a whole lot of other thing as well. jeff, thank you. i want to go to democratic congressman adam schiff of california, the ranking member on the select committee on intelligence. part of the russia investigation there. congressman this trial is not about collusion with the trump campaign and russia as you know. just about an accused shrewd lawyer who avoided taxes and bought a $15,000 as trip jacket. they are saying it's not connected with the rump campaign. is it that simple. >> no. if it were i don't think you would fine the president watching so keenly. this is donald trump's campaign manager who is pointing the finger at his deputy campaign manager. if the he is convicted, as you
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point out erin he will face substantial time if he is convicted on these charges. he may flip. that will be profoundly concerning to the president. we are already hearing conflicting reports about the easy were's knowledge and approval of the tower meeting that paul many of the sat in on. if he is facing time he may come clean about what he knows about that meeting. also if mueller were to be unsuccessful it is an opportunity to further bash him. i'm betting on mueller on this. these are very document-specific allegations that are i think firly easy to prove. >> when it comes to paying your taxes or not. as you point out, it should be document driven. but you know, the ostrich coat, the $21,000 watch, the fleet of range rovers. the list they are putting out goes on and on. you would think with all that he would just cooperate but he didn't, right? unlike other trump associates who have been charged right,
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flynn, papadopoulos, and rick gates. is it possible that manafort is not cooperating because he is not guilty? do you even entertain that possibility at this point? >> i don't entertain that possibility. i think what is going on here is, if paul manafort -- even if he cooperated with authorities, he was still looking at a very substantial amount of time given the weight of these charges. at his age he may have concluded he doesn't have that kind of time to spend behind bars. it is going to go all in for a pardon. he is going to be the last man defending donald trump and bet it all on a pardon. that may be where at least he's making his appeal. >> which is an interesting point. i want to ask you, the judge in the case, judge ill ellis is important. as you remember n may he told mueller's team, quote, you don't really care about mr. manafort's bank fraud. he basically accused prosecutors of only caring about many of the because he could lead to trump's quote prosecution or impeachment. that's were the judge's words. he asked for mueller's mandate,
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he looked at it and said okay this can go forward. he did do that. what do you think of him? do you think the trial will be fair? >> i certainly hope the trial will be fair. i was concerned by those comments because they didn't really go to any of the legal issues. it sealed like gratuitous political commentary which you don't expect from a federal judge. they you this look at the law, the mandate, the jurisdiction. all of that was clear. ultimately he ruled the right way but those kind of political comments i think are concerning. >> the first government witness on the stand today, as we were reporting, it is the rocket docket. 34 witnesses on that side. they want to bang through this. it could be two or three weeks. it was bernie sanders campaign strategy in to 16. divine was the first person on the stand. he worked with manafort in ukraine. he described his relationship with many of the as friendly, said he was impressed by many of the, saw him as a hard working
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guy. you are a former assistant u.s. attorney. what do you make of that? bernie sanders' former top strategist saying he is a hard working guy and impressed by manafort. >> i don't know the details of this, but paul manafort may be a very hard working guy and he may have worked very hard to hide his money and to fail to disclose his taxes. bear in mind that some of these charges pertain to money laundering that was going on while he was the campaign manager for donald trump. so it may take a lot of work to get that ostrich coat but it doesn't mean it was lawful work. it certainly doesn't appear so from the indictment. >> as the russia investigation continues and mueller obviously is very focus on the manafort case right now because this trial is his first. but facebook announces today they are shutting down dozens more facebook and instagram accounts believed to be run by russians. it sort of confused me congressman. you know, you have got facebook. mark zuckerberg comes and testifies before congress. they shut everything down and
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now they are still finding accounts that they need to shut down? even now. does that make sense to you? >> it does make sense because the russians aren't going to stop and they are not going to be as overt as they were in 2016. they are not going to use the same ip addresses to out of st. petersburg. we have seen continuing activity since the last election. it never stopped. i think we should view what facebook disclosed in combination with what microsoft disclosed within the week. that is both of these same vectors that appear in these two mueller indictments, the social media campaign and hacking. >> you belief it's new accounts not facebook willing incomplete but sort of a continued onslaught from the russians? am i translating it right. >> yes. >> okay. >> i think that's the case. we kept getting additional information from facebook about advertising and organic content from these original ip addresses from st. petersburg, but they are going to continue to learn about more as the russians move and hide and use other proxies. so this is going to continue to
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be rolled out to the public. you any i'm glad that facebook is doing this. they are going to have to continue doing it. the intelligence community is going to have to tin sharing information with the tech companies when they spot foreign actors on those platforms as well. next, the manafort jury. six men and six women. they are all white but three of them. her going to decide whether trump's former campaign manager spends the rest of his life in prison. plus, the president campaigning live in florida. you see him there at this moment. sources tell cnn trump is wouldered about democrats winning the house. night and trump calling the koch brothers a total joke. it is a battle of the giants. who is going to win? when did you see the sign? when i needed to jumpstart sales.
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milligram. frank rooney and carey cordero. ann, does the fact that this jury is so white matter? >> i don't think it matters. i mean first of all i think there is some diverse knit the jury, which we see. but the second point is what both sides want to do when they pick a jury is they are trying to find people that they think we will aligned with the way they see the world. the government wants people who follow the rules pay their tax who is think it's terrible that someone didn't pay their taxes. the defense i suspect is looking for people with proxies for being super conservative, more simple athletic and who heard this is a witch-hunt and is politically motivated. i think that's how you wind up getting people selected for juries. you never know. >> interesting, the first thing a lot of us will look at is racial component. est as you point out that's actually not the driver here for either side. carry, you live in northern virginia where the trial is
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happening where the jury pool comes from. the prosecutor went into detail about many of the's action traffic gant spending today. $60 million they say he didn't report to the irs. 30 bank accounts in three foreign countries that they used to buy that custom ostrich jacket, is it feathered? does it have bumps on it? how does all of this play to this jury, now that we know the gender and the general racial component of it? >> it is i agree with ann that the racial component is less relevant are. northern virginia and the eastern district of virginia where the case is taking place is highly educated. it is a diverse area but it's highly educated and we pay a lot of taxes in virginia and northern virginia. this is a community that pays its fair share, and more. i think the opulence that will be on display in the trial will definitely be something that resonates with this potential jury pool because this is an area where in virginia we have a
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car tax. we pay high property taxes federal taxes of course. so the lying and the tax evasion component of this case i think will be relevant to this jury. >> frank, many of the's team is blaming rick gates. >> yeah. >> which we were just talking about. it's interesting. not saying it didn't happen, saying this other guy did it. >> right. >> his attorney says quote this case is about taxes and trust. mr. manafort laced his trust in the wrong person, rick gates. now rick gates of course knows pretty much everything about paul manafort, right. >> yes. >> they worked together on this campaign, worked together before in ukraine. they have a long history together. bernie sanders former campaign strategist testified manafort is hard working but also said rick orkd for paul, paul was in charge. will anybody buy that gates was the mastermind? >> i think it's tough to sell that because you are talking about more than 60 million dollars mate over five or four years. you are talking about $15 million of taxes not being made and we are supposed to believe
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paul manafort never noticed that sort of savings in his financial flow? we are supposed to believe this guy who ran such a big business who traveled the world, lived that large who was that much of a master of the universe was completely content to just sign papers without reading then and hand them over to rick gates. >> hard to believe that i don't think that's going to be something the jury is going to be persuaded from and rick gates' testimony is going to be the moment of this trial. >> they are saying he is going to be the star in all of this. and blaming gates, ann, do you think it is a good defense. >> no. >> if it is the best defense. >> i think it's the latter, the best defense. if you -- gates is testifying and he is cooperating and he knows everything. he is the right hand man, the inside narrator of the entire scheme. so the jury is either going to believe him or not. if they believe him, manafort is guilty. so he has to chip away at his credibility. >> has going to be a paper trail proof of the bank accounts, proof of taxes not paid.
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>> this is not like a he said/she said type of crime. the problem for manafort is exactly what frank just said, he signed the tax forms. he got the opulent homes, got the ostrich coat or hat. >> i want there to be a picture of the coat. >> oh. >> it's hard to argue away i didn't know, right. >> i think gates is going to be the most exhaustively prepared witness in the history of witnesses. >> carry, the opening statements obviously significant. from the prosecution, key words, shrewd lie e $15,000 custom ostrich jacket. follow the money. he, manafort believed the law didn't pry to him. that's the prosecution. from the defense, two sides to every story, talented consultant, driving force in the candidacy of multiple u.s. presidents. that third one is true. paul manafort has been crucial in the candidacy of multiple u.s. presidents. who was more effective do you think carry in the opening
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states tchblts prosecutor's approach in the opening statement did track what they put in the indictment which is their theory that manafort is a liar, that the crimes that they are alleging he did involve lying, lying to banks. lying to the irs. lying to the treasury department. so his crime is the criminal act of lying on all of these different types of forms and compliance-related issues. the defense is going to have a hard time countering the documentary evidence that is going to be in this case. and then rick gates, his partner in business, verifying a lot of those documents, which is what i expect part of his role will be. >> frank, kellyanne conway today decided to take the tack of hey, i was the winning campaign chairman. forget the guy that came before me that delivered the actual nomination. you know, she said look the trial has nothing to do with trump. here's part of how she put night the judge has very strictly
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instructed no mention of paul many of the's role in the trump campaign, don't mention trump. don't mention russia, don't mention collusion. >> many of the as i pointed out, he was in the meeting with the admitted informant in trump tower. he provided meetings to a russian oligarch. he attended all of these meetings. you write in your op ed this trial has plenty to do with the president. >> if there was collusion with russia paul manafort might show about it. this trial is about tightening the screws on him and trying to get him to talk. >> you agree with junglis who called that out in may. >> there is another thing. i think this trial is a he radio miner of the company donald trump keeps of the kind of shady behavior that happens all around him. i think it's significant that this is happening at the same time that we have michael cohen in the news. americans are seeing who trump lets attach to him and how they operate in the world and how they cut corners and all of that. and these people are in some ways mirrors of the president.
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i don't think this is good for the president. i think it does end up hurting him. i tee he with kellyanne conway in that sense. as our coverage continues all of you will be with us as much as you can. up next, trump live at a tampa rally campaigning for ron de santis who is running for florida governor. wait until you see the trump mini me. >> ron loves playing with the kids. >> build a wall. >> and a longtime republican says it's time for her party to call for trump to step down. >> former governor christie todd whitman is out front. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.
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happening with rebound mueller. joining me now a panel. paul, let me start with you. de santis was an underdog. now he on the is. the president is on fire when it comes to all of these races. out of all the special elections and primaries out there that trump weighed in 17 we he weighed in have won, four lost. that's an impressive record. tampa bay times told cnn today de santiss rival was a shoe-in for the primary but trump has turned the tables. is he really the king maker? >> he is. in the republican party. look at brian kemp, of georgia. he was behind. he was outspent. he was running against a more experienced candidate. he did his job. okay? i don't want to take anything away from mr. kemp. donald trump put him over the top if you ask me. i think he is going the do that with de santis.
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he is embarrassing himself buy being so -- >> i'm going to play in a. >> de santis is not wrong to do that in the primary, here's the problem. in the nbc news "wall street journal" poll that came out among republicans president trump's approval rating is 88. but his approval among independents is 36. that's catastrophic. he is gold within the republicans but death with the independents. if he is campaigning in swing states and swing districts in the general election he is actually going to hurt his party. >> what do you make of that, rob. you get the far right trumper through the primaries and then you hit this independent black hole. >> all the republicans will going to go back. they are going to stick with the republican candidate. >> what about the independents. >> if the economy is doing well he has a shot.
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if you are open minded to the candidate running in the election then you have a shot. you can't have it both ways. i tell republicans this. you can't sit there and try to run from trump if you don't like some of the things he says because you are going to be tagged with it anyway and democrats aren't going to vote for you. you might as well embrace it and get across the finish line. >> it's sort of an accordion. how big is this, quote, unquote, independent. a lot of people say they are. how many really are? right. >> paul, i promised. i will now deliver on my promise. i am a person of my word. let me play ron de santis's the candidate for governor in florida, his most recent campaign ad which is garnering campaign attention. >> everyone knows my husband ron de santis is endorsed my president trump. but he is also an amazing dad. ron loves playing with the kids. >> build a wall. >> he reads stories. >> then mr. trump said "you're fired", i love that part. >> he is teaching madison to taub. >> make america great again.
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>> people say ron is all trump. but he is so much more. >> big league. so good. >> i just thought you should know. >> ron de santis for governor. >> okay, paul. >> first, the kids are undeniably cute. >> exactly. >> congressman and his wife should be congrate lated for having beautiful children. here's the problem, if you were to kick donald trump in the butt you would hit the, about of ron's head. it is hue hilliating for a accomplished person. >> humiliating? >> a little bit of both. it is not the way i would have gone. they are trying to outtrump each other. i don't think they need to do that because in the general election you do need to bring others into the camp. but you cannot underestimate. >> an ad like that let's be
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clear is not going to bring anyone into the camp. that is an ad for the people who love trump. >> that should have been a direct mail piece not something on television where everyone is going to see it. but i do think you know there is something good for de santis tonight when the republican president comes in and endorses you. we can talk about whether he should have or shouldn't have. but that's going to bring in a lot of money, a lot of resources, a lot of hype for de santis and that's going to help him out tremendously. >> you have the lego wall and the make america great thing. you would agree it is a bit belittling and perhaps funny rob to you. but he does sound like trump when it comes to substance and policy paul. that i think is what is significant and voters should keep in mind. let me show that. >> strzok was the driver behind exonerating hillary. i think rosenstein should have
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recused himself should have never been involved. the use of yes a spy was directed every bit as much against donald trump as it was against russia. it underscores the need why you need to have border security and an actual border wall. >> okay. the point i want to may be with that, paul, is all those interviews were on fox news. i believe every single one of them. this is not about local media and talking to vote understand florida. it's about doing it on fox news where the president can see you, hear you parrot his talking points then endorse you. >> and reach the core trump voters. a very start strategy for the primary. very smart. >> right. >> i think it's going to limit his ability to reach independents in the general. >> you are assuming that all the voters in the primary care enough about politics that they are going to be watching national cable as opposed to local. is that the assumption. >> hard core. >> hard core, yeah. general election that's not going to cut it. running an ad that's saying i'm more trump than trump.
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that's fine in the primaries. no independent is going to vote for that guy because he is close to trump. they want to know about health care and schools. >> penny wise, pound foolish. >> first you have to win the primary. then you can run in the general election and come up with a strategy for that. there is a at stake in florida. the redistricting is very important for the 2020 election and going forward. not only congress but the people who draw the.mas, that's the republican governor or the democratic governor. >> as a non-politician i think it's disgusting how both sides just run to their polls to get the peopleary. then you end up with more and more polarized people in congress and congress does nothing and we end up with all of this and whatever. >> i agree. >> whole thing independent could of disgusts me. up next the feud between trump and the koch brothers is exploding. who is going to win. john kelly had a foot out
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christina alesci is out front. that's tonight's money and power. when people act in protectionist ways, they erect barriers, which makes everyone worse off. >> reporter: those barriers include tariffs and immigration reform. billionaire charles koch's political network, which historically backs republicans coming out in force against president donald trump and complicating matters for republicans facing tough races in the mid terms. whaup of the koch noish's top officials saying over the weekend, the divisiveness of this white house is causing long term damage. trump hitting back at the kochs tweeting early tuesday, the globalist koch brothers who have become a total joke in real republican circles are against strong borders and powerful trade. i never sought their support because i don't need their money or bad ideas. the president picking a fight with its network of donors, which has pledged to invest more
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money in this midterm election cycle than ever before. up to $400 million. >> kevin, come out. >> reporter: the koch political machine making it clear it won't help congressman kevin kramer for now. the republican vying to unseat democratic senator heidi heitkamp in north dakota. one big reason? kramer voted for the $1.3 billion spend bill earlier this year. since 2010 the koch's have spent heavily on candidates who oppose tariffs and support government spending, among other issues. that puts republicans who may need koch money in a tough spot, especially which he former trump adviser steve bannon issued this warning tuesday. you take koch money, it's going to be toxic. candidates like marcia blackburn of ten depend and jim jordan of ohio both find themselves in the middle of a tug-of-war between trump and the kochs, according to daniel shullman who wrote
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about book about the koch brothers. >> jim has been a close ally of the president particularly on the russia probe. but on tariffs he's expressed some concerns about that. so he is to some degree walking a fine line on some of the stuff. >> reporter: the kochs did not get behind donald trump in 2016. instead, their network supported down ballot house and senate races spend being $250 million. none of it on trump. >> the kochs have, you know, they have a long game. and i think what the kochs are trying to do is remind the candidates that they supported of the issues that they were -- that they once held dear. >> reporter: a koch spokesperson today on the phone with me tried to down play the whole dispute between the kochs and the trump administration, but i'm not
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going to sugar coat it, erin. trump is actively trying to undermine koch influence here. and that is no surprise. some republican operatives i spoke to today say the koch influence has already been diminished because it's been pushing the -- the koch network has been pushing to reduce tariffs and the administration has done just the opposite. >> urch that. incredible in that reporting. you are talking about power, trump, who has access to money, about but willing to take on a $400 million donor. who else would be willing to do that. next a prominent republican calls on president trump to resign. >> chaing he is not quote fit to remain in office. and jeanne moos with the most recent polling on who is the better president. >> lincoln or trump. >> lincoln. >> lincoln on trump. >> lincoln. >> lincoln. >> lincoln or trump. >> lincoln. i'm captain obvious and hotels.com
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but, with more exercise and a change in diet, it can be reversed. i've tried exercising. it just makes me hungry. for bacon. i love bacon, too. and who really likes to exercise? not me. me neither! nobody! [both laugh] so, we're good? what? oh, you still have prediabetes. big time. new tonight, president trump asking his embattled chief of staff john kelly to stay by his side through 2020. this comes after weeks and months of rumors that kelly's demise was imen in. if one prominent republican has her way the president won't be in office that long. the former new jersey governor
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who served on george w. bush's cabinet writes in an op ed calling on my fellow republicans trump is clearly unfit to remain in office. quote i am a life long republican. i have campaigned and won as a member of the party. and i have served more than one republican president. we must put aside the gop label as hard as that may be and demonstrate the leadership our country needs by calling on the president to step down. not mincing words. not trying to hide behind nuance. that's a clear estimate. christine todd whitman is out front. i know this took a lot for you to write. you prospect a trump supporter. you came out and said look i voted for hillary clinton. now you are coming out with this step down. you are doing it now? what made you decide to do it now? >> the final straw for me was the way he behaved in europe for the eu and nato meetings where he basically dissed our allies and embraced putin. when you take the oath of office
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you agree and hold up your right hand and swear to protect the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic. putin is an enemy. he is not going putin is an enemy. but to fawn over him the way the president did, to set aside our allies, to throw everything into uncertainty for the people who are on our side in order to appear more closely aligned with something like vladimir putin, that's just not good for the country. >> so republican voters, as you know, strongly back president trump. paul begala was just raising this point. 88. our latest polling is 82%. no matter how you look at it, it is a stratospheric approval rating among republicans. >> that's the key. they're such a small percentage of the registered voters. >> but if you get all the republicans to vote for him, he could win again. >> but if you're only 29% -- yes, he can. oh, i don't doubt that he can.
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but if you're 29, and now i've heard 26% voters identify as republicans. so if you're talking yes, if you get that out, it's a serious bloc. but that's a small percentage of the overall potential electorate. >> you're talking about the trump base. >> the trump base. the republican base. those who self-identify as republicans now are between 26 and 29%. 30%. and 40 is democrats or independents or unaffiliated. that 40% is not even going to break 50-50. >> would you lead the party? >> i'm not in that 26 to 29. i'm an eisenhower republican. and those are not the ones they ever poll as identified republicans. >> would you leave the party, though as some have done? >> no, not right now. it still want to fight for the party. i believe in the republican party and what we used to stand for. i don't think that donald trump is truly a republican. i don't think he is truly a conservative and i don't think he is good for the country. >> you know, the thing, though, if he were to do what you're
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asking, to step down. fine, but if he were, that then means mike pence. and "new york times" columnist frank burn any who was just here a couple of minutes ago said getting rid of trump would be a mistake there are problems with impeaching donald trump. a big one is the holy terror sitting in the wings that would be mike pence. he is also a bigot, also a liar, also cruel. that's one person's very strong point of view. >> right. >> but let's be clear, mike pence has a very strong point of view on things like abortion. >> oh, yes. >> the law on -- >> genderer, right. >> and gay and lesbian relationships in indiana. he has a strong point of view. which his boss does not seem to have on those issues in the same way. would you be willing to take pence over trump? >> but i don't think he would tweet us into a war or a difficult situation. i don't think he would disrespect the constitution. i'm not a fan in the sense that i don't agree with any of the positions he has taken. >> but you would take those position over trump? >> for the next two years, i would live with those position.
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>> wow. let me ask you about hugh hewitt in "the washington post" said no matter what you think, the president has surrounded himself with superb cabinet members of his commitment to judges and the economy is cook. his point of view is he's done a good job. >> the economy is cooking, the best quarter since 2014 that was only four years ago under the much hated and reviled obama administration. >> yeah. >> so he has seen it before. he should take credit because he would get the blame if he didn't. if he were in there, there is no question about that. and as i say, some of the people that have pushed back against me have been very thoughtful. and those interest points that they raise. but that to me does not trump, to excuse that, trump what i see as a really dangerous undermining of the norms that are the basis of our democracy. this idea about false news, it scares me when the president of the united states will stand up and say don't believe anything you see or anything you hear. all news is fake.
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only believe me. that should scare people to death. that's not the kind of country we are. >> all right. well, thank you so much, governor. i appreciate your time. >> my pleasure. >> and thank you for coming and talking to me about it. and next, jeanne moos on trump's obsession with abe lincoln. of our new unlimited wireless plans. it comes with a ton of entertainment options. great, can you sign for this? yeah. hey, uh.. what's in that one? that's a shark. new and only with at&t, you can get unlimited data, 30+ channels of live tv, and your choice of things like hbo or pandora premium. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit att dot com. why people everywhere are upgrading their water filter to zerowater. start with water that has a lot of dissolved solids. pour it through brita's two-stage filter. dissolved solids remain? what if we filter it over and over? (sighing) oh dear.
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president trump declaring victory tonight over abraham lincoln. he just did it moments ago. here is jeanne moos. >> reporter: president trump seems to have a touch of lincoln envy. >> the late great abraham lincoln. >> most people don't even mow he was a republican, right? does anyone know? >> ah, yeah, but we didn't know this. president trump tweeted, "wow, highest poll numbers in the history of the republican party. that includes honest abe lincoln and ronald reagan. there must be something wrong. please recheck that poll." oh, there is something wrong, all right. false on the politifact truth-o-meter. even jimmy kimmel sent someone out to do research. >> lincoln or trump are, lincoln or trump. >> oh, lincoln. >> who is a better president, lincoln or trump? >> trump. >> trump. perfect. said the woman in front of a hooters.
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>> there is one itty-bitty problem. president trump, comparing his poll numbers to president lincoln's. abe lincoln was dead before polls started, read one exasperated tweet. lincoln died 71 years before modern scientific polling started in 1936. in lincoln's time, there row would have been only tiny local straw polls. president trump does have an 87% approval rating among republicans, but other presidents have topped that. what would lincoln say? conan once juxtaposed the animatronic abe with the real donald. >> i mentioned food stamps, and that guy who is seriouslily overweight went crazy. >> reporter: trump used points to score points against clinton. >> honest abe, honest abe never lied. that's the good thing. that's difference between abraham lincoln and you. that's a big, big difference we're talk about, some difference. >> reporter: call me crazy, but i don't think honest donald is
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the nickname history will bestow on president trump. when it comes to stature, even when you're saluting him, abe seems to turn everyone into the size of one of his shins. jeanne moos, cnn -- >> build that wall, build that wall! >> reporter: new york. >> build that wall, build that wall! >> all right. thanks for watching. anderson's next. good evening. we begin tonight with breaking news. fast breaking news. the federal court for the eastern district of virginia is known as the rocket docket, and today in day one of the paul manafort bank and tax fraud trial, it lived up to its name. a jury was picked. opening statements were made, and the first witness took the stand. as courtrooms go, that is happening at warp speed. mr. manafort, as you know, was chairman of the trump campaign. and as you may also know, the man he helped elect and the people surrounding him aren't exactly imbraesing him since robert mueller's grand jury indicted him. >> paul manafort is a nice guy.

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