>> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day." up first, president trump reversing course, recommitting the u.s. to the war in afghanistan. he did not offer specifics about troop levels or a timetable. the president did not give benchmarks for how to measure success. >> the accoupresident attemptin clean up his controversial response to charlottesville, calling on americans to come together. he was talking about the military, and the home that they deserve to return to but it was obviously about that and more. this as the president heads back on the campaign trail with a big rally in phoenix tonight. will he hold true to his message of unity. let's discuss with cnn political analyst david gregory, cnn politics reporter and editor at large for cnn chris cillizza and international correspondent clarissa ward. great panel for this discussion.
clarissa we had nikki haley on, the ambassador to the u.s., one-time governor of south carolina. had a couple of important things to say. one, this is so much different than what has been decided in the past, and afghanistan and pakistan aren't on the travel ban because we know enough about the people who are traveling from those countries wanting to come into the u.s. what do you make of those two notions? >> well i think let's start with the first notion. i think president trump had a really piece of fancy footwork that he had to do here. he had to basically justify why he was doubling down on a war that he has continuously disparaged, and how it was going to be different in his handling than it was under president obama, whose handling of afgh afghanist afghanistan he's consistently disparaged. while he was sort of successful in the first part of that endeavor elucidating to an american audience why this is important, isis, al qaeda, safe havens, pakistan, nuclear power,
a lot of reasons why we can't allow it to become a vacuum but speaking to kninickkki haley's why or how is this substantially different from president obama's approach. i didn't hear a lot of details, i didn't hear any detail about the specifics of how it would be different. president obama also talked about pakistan. you got to play a more positive role here, a more responsible role. no more harbors of terrorists. you can talk like that 'til the cows come home but how do you make pakistan play a more responsible role. probably not by dangling the threat of india as president trump did. you can talk about wanting to improve the afghan national army, about wanting afghanistan to take the lead, about them having to take responsibility. this is the type of rhetoric we have been hearing for more than a decade. the reality is it's much tougher to put it into practice and we didn't really get any insight into how president trump intends to do that. >> before we get to david gregory and chris, because you reported so often in afghanistan, is the premise
correct, is the premise right that if the u.s. ends this war and leaves, that it would instantly become a haven for terrorists? >> let's be clear. the u.s. has a lot of bad option here. you are damned if you do and you a damned if if you don't. there say legitimate argument to be made that a complete and abrupt withdrawal from afghanistan could have tremendous implications for the security of the u.s. going forward. at the same time, there has to be a clear and coherent pathway to something better, to something more sustainable, and the only thing i think we heard kind of wedged into the speech there that was a sort of nod to what that might be was when he talked about the possibility of a reconciliation with the taliban at some point in the future. ultimately the taliban does have a lot of support in afghanistan. that's hard for some of us to get our head around, but it's a reality. >> it's a reality because as you know and you've taught me over the years, they provide a lot of the necessary services that the
government cannot and that really just drives a lot of the goodwill for them on the ground. so let's set up this second proposition, which is the consistency of the policy. if afghanistan is so important, if pakistan is so fundamental to the harboring of terrorists and a need for change, why aren't they part of the travel ban? here's what nikki haley said. >> you know, i think the travel ban was based on certain threats, and more importantly it was based on the fact that if. we didn't have enough information. the goal was always, and the goal continues to be for the president to keep americans safe, and any country where we don't have enough background, we don't have the background checks, we can't ensure that americans are going to be safe, that's how those countries were picked. if there are other countries, and we have enough information, they weren't put on the travel ban. >> david gregory, we're talking about the two countries that were fundamental in the reckoning of 9/11. you have afghanistan, which was the warehouse, and the laboratory for bin laden, and you have pakistan, which is
where he was hiding, despite everything that pakistan authorities told us. what do you make of nickki hal y haley's answer? >> well, i mean i think it points to some of what is missing in the travel ban policy, which is coherent policy and a realistic assessment of the threat. this was always designed by the obama administration to deal with certain loopholes for potential terrorists who could exploit some weaknesses, particularly in great britain, if they had dual passports and get into the united states. so i think it just speaks to that piece. i'd like to make a broader point about afghanistan as well. i think what we have to realize is that president trump is now heyn to the national security establishment. ever since 9/11 the basic proposition has been that we cannot allow another safe haven to develop in afghanistan or elsewhere, because we saw what happened on 9/11. i don't think it's possible for there to be some sort of beautiful political outcome in
afghanistan. president bush didn't think so at the end of his term, general petraeus, our commander of forces whom i interviewed in afghanistan, when he took over, said he hoped for an afghanistan good enough. the truth is, i think the taliban as awful as it is, is going to be part of the future of the government, but i think we're coming to the realization that just as previous administrations may have learned the damage of getting out of iraq without any residual force left a certain amount of room for isis to develop. here there's going to be a commitment to staying put in afghanistan long enough and strong enough to at least hold it together, and not allow it to degenerate further into a terrorist state as it once did. >> chris cillizza, it's interesting to read the back story in terms of how president trump came around to this way of thinking when we been so adam ant it was time to immediately get out of afghanistan, there had been a tremendous loss of blood and treasure but now his
generals convinced him of that, so i think we have a little bit of sound related to this. listen to this. >> my original instinct was to pull out and historically i like following my instincts, but all my life i've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the oval office, in other words when you're president of the united states so i studied afghanistan in great detail and from every conceivablconceivabl after many meetings over many months we held our final meeting last friday at camp david with my cabinet and generals to complete our strategy. >> chris, it's interesting on so many levels of you get to see the window into who influences
the president people say it's often the last person in the room. bannon out. the general mcmasters and mattises of the world were able to convince him. >> historically i like to follow my gut or instinct is the most trumpian statement of all-time, truer words have never been spoken. yes, look, i think you had two colliding things here. you it donald trump's instinct which heing aknowledged and tweeted about which is to get out of afghanistan, nothing to be gained there for the united states and his adherence and loyalty to as he regularly puts it, my generals. he had made clear in the campaign and then as president that he thought barack obama didn't listen enough to the generals, was making decisions that he shouldn't have been making, he should have been deferring more to his generals, so you have those two things clashing. this is i think sort of a refreshing thing for a president to say.
donald trump does a lot of odd things that i think are bad politically. i actually think that clip that you played was donald trump unorthodoxy in an appealing way. essentially saying, look, yes i have said many times before that i think we need to get out of afghanistan, that it's useless for us to be there, a waste of time, money and human lives, but i'm president now. i spent a lot more time studying it now, and i've reached a different conclusion. now, he didn't really outline a lot of what that conclusion was, but i think showing the work in that way is something that the american public can appreciate. i think politicians do themselves a disservice when they try to paint abrupt reversals as consistency. so actually that piece of what he was doing in sort of showing us, being transparent yes i changed my mind and here is why was useful rhetorically speaking.
>> clarissclarissa, there is on part of the service of the media is to point stuff out like this to the public. this is a clever speech last night. we're no longer about duration. we're about results. >> yes. >> we heard that the beginning of this 16-year campaign. we're going to go in there and make this stable and then we'll leave. it failed. so much so that it had to become about duration. now we're back to where we started. >> right. >> people need to understand, that can only mean that we're there longer. if it's results oriented it can't be short. it's got to be long. >> it's got to be long and also if you're going to say this is going to be a conditions based exit, when we finally do exit, i think you need to talk about what the conditions are, what's the standard, what is an acceptable level of security, what is an acceptable level of competence of the afghan army. at what stage is it politically and from a security point of view viable for the u.s. to actually exit afghanistan. >> we're nowhere near it right
now. fair point? >> we're definitely nowhere near it. we're further away than where we were a few years ago. in terms of who has the momentum on the battlefield it's the taliban. when we talk about reconciliation or power sharing or decentralized form of government in afghanistan we can't talk about that right now because the taliban doesn't have an incentive to come to the negotiating table. if there was one thing that it was important for president trump to show the taliban, it was okay, you know what? the u.s. is going to be here. we're going to be here for a while. it's incumbent upon you to come to the negotiating table because we're not going anywhere. for the american people that means more american servicemen and women are going to potentially die and that's a huge responsibility. >> so david, very quickly to tonight. >> but the reality is -- >> quickly? >> the reality is that afghanistan has not exported terror the way that it did prior to 9/11. the taliban has been, has had momentum for a long time, that's ebbed and flowed but as clarissa says it's mostly been in their
favor. but only a u.s. presence i think the military will argue guaranties an intelligence flow and can at least contain that somewhat, and i think that's the thing that, after 16 years, we have to get our heads around, that this is never going to be about, you know, great governance in afghanistan. there's been so much corruption in successive administrations. it's about the power of a u.s. president to at least keep the lid on looking like a semipermanent presence there. that's what the president outlined last night. we have all this opacity around what the standards are for us ultimately to get out. i don't think they know yet. >> david, quickly on to tonight, all of this will be very interesting to hear if tonight in arizona, if the president at this campaign style rally, the one where he goes off prompter and sort of feeds off the crowd and vice versa, if if he still touches on all of these points or what his language will be. what are you expecting? >> well, i mean you know, i've become more cynical about this unfortunately, to see him in
front of a teleprompter is a different president and to see him ad libbing, who is the real donald trump? when it comes to afghanistan or when it comes to trying to repair the damage that he alone is responsible for after charlottesville, is he going to whip it up because he's out at a campaign style rally or not? he needs to find a consistent voice of leadership, something he has not found even if he gave a speech that was, you know, more establishment policy on afghanistan. >> david, chris, thank you, clarissa, great to have you here in studio with us sharing your lorpg. thanks so mu thoughts. the navy updated the search for ten missing sailors after the "uss john mccain" collided with a oil tanker in the south pacific. listen to this. >> -- any damaged parts of the ship. the divers were able to locate
some remains in those sealed compartments during their search today. additionally, the malaysian navy has reported that they have located potential remains. they are working to confirm and identify those remains. as more information comes in, we will make it available. while the search and rescue efforts continue, i sincerely thank our singapore partners, our malaysia partners and everyone who has responded with urgency, compassion, and tireless commitment. four of the five sailors injured were medically evacuated by a singapore navy helicopter to a hospital in singapore for non-life-threatening injuries. the fifth injured sailor was transferred -- >> you hear the breaking news there but it is a tragic update, they have identified the remains of some of those ten missing sailors. >> and look, it's horrible news, but closure is important in these situations and whether
it's the "fitzgerald" or "uss cole" or now the "mccain" those compartments are tricky. lot of them are submerged, they have to be pumped out. it's hard after a cataclysmic event like that to track everybody. it takes time. >> the admiral also said that the actions of the sailors on board saved more lives. navy investigators are looking into what caused the crash, this is the fourth crash involving a navy ship this year. >> three of those four involved private vessels. why? why that pattern? that's something they have to study as well. we now have a new strategy in afghanistan and of course there are a lot of questions. why our experts say president trump may be promising something he can't deliver. next. where's jack? he's on holiday. what do you need? i need the temperature for pipe five. ask the new guy. the new guy? jack trained him. jack's guidance would be to maintain the temperature at negative 160 degrees celsius.
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the president says he wants to continue the fight against terror. he did not give a timetable. he said this would be about benchmarks for success. let's discuss with retired u.s. army colonel steve warren and cnn global affairs analyst and former deputy secretary of state tony blinken. so mr. warren, welcome to the team. it's good to have you here at cnn. what did you hear last night? did you hear something new and different that the american people should be optimistic about? >> thanks very much. it's great to be here. what i heard was the president describe a strategy that looks and sounds to me an awful lot like the last strategy we've been using for the past several years. maybe with some of the roughest edges filed off, some of the edges that perhaps the military, the generals didn't like, things like increased authorities to attack terrorists throughout afghanistan, increased authority
to flow troops in, lots of good words about no interference from washington and honorable and enduring outcomes, these things, but i think at its base the substance remains largely unchanged. >> tony, nikki haley says it is really different because the decisions that were made this time by the president were decisive in a way and results oriented in a way that the obama administration was not. >> you have to distinguish between the form and the substance. on form it was a good speech, well written and well delivered and probably the product of something we haven't seen a lot of, which is a really deliberative process to get to the speech and disciplined by the president in delivering it. but on the substance, i very much agree with steve, it is a little bit of old wine packaged in a new bottle and the president promised something he simple can't deliver which is total victory. the fact is we have a strategy not to lose in afghanistan but not a strategy to win, by win
meaning defeating the taliban. that's not happening on the battlefield. at our peak we had 100,000 troops in afghanistan. this takes us from 8,000 to maybe 1,02,000, 13,000. ultimately we have to have some kind of political accommodation. it's awful hard to get to when the taliban has the momentum but that's the way out. that requires diplomacy as well as force. and unfortunately the president has gutted the state department at the very time we need to see that kind of diplomacy. >> for some context for people, because the situation has gotten worse, where do you believe the obama administration fell short? >> look, this is a problem that has been going on now for, getting to year 17 of this conflict. i think we should be setting discreet limited understandable goals, one making sure that afghanistan is not a haven for terror, a place from which we and our partners can be attacked
and two doing what we can to keep the governments going. that's the limit of what we can accomplish. if we're clear about the goals, modest and explain to the american people that it's going to take a lot of time and look, we're kind of stuck. the president's right, if we pulled out precipitously we would leave a vacuum. the place would collapse. the flipside of that coin, chris, is that we're going to be there for a while. he should level with the american people about that. >> right, and the irony of course is that candidate and certainly citizen president trump would have hated that speech last night. steve warren he wants us out. he shared a opinion then a lot of american people have, this is called the graveyard empire for a reason, that government has been ineffective for a reason, the taliban is needed by the people there for a reason, and you're not going to fix it unless you own it, and the american people have no appetite for that. another issue has come up about policy consistency. we had nikki haley on, ambassador to the u.n. now obviously and i asked her if afghanistan is so treacherous,
if pakistan is so unstable, why aren't they on the travel ban? and her answer was well we know enough about the people who want to come to america from those two places that they didn't need to be on it. that seems to be a real eye popper to are me. for you, steve? >> it is interesting see how the government selected certain nations for a travel ban and left others off and you wonder whether or not our intelligence is that robust inpakistan, for opposed to some of the other countries. it's interesting to see how we approach those things. in afghanistan, we heard the president talk briefly about leveraging pakistan, using the diplomatic component of national power. what we didn't hear anything about is kind of the larger, in my view, presence of for example china, who share a border with pakistan and shares a border with afghanistan, and where was
the mention of china, how we use china to create some calm in the region. i didn't hear it. >> tony obviously it didn't get done under the obama administration, it didn't get done under the bush administration. any time you look up afghanistan for a book you're going to hear the phrase "graveyard of empires" since the soviet union and we can go back to what the u.s. did to undermine the soviet union when they were in afghanistan. it hasn't worked out. even though the president of the united states nows that had a change of mind if not of heart what to do there the message to the american people should be the same. you can't get out of this place. if you get out it will almost certainly devolve to a state where it once again becomes a bazaar of the worst kinds of people who will be able to do whatever they want, like a huge? >> i think that's the reality an hone honesty. can we come to a sustainable place?
is there a presence that advances our interests, does what's necessary that we can sustain financially and also in terms of the human resources. the hard truth is sending more forces in means we're going to lose more lives. we have to wrap our minds around that as well. steve put his finger on something really important which is you have to have a regional strategy here and it's china, but it's also russia, it's also iran as well as of course pakistan and india. if we're not working to get all of those players moving toward the same objective and they have different competing interests, it's going to be very hard to really get to a stable place. >> there's no question about it. i'm telling you, i've never traveled anywhere with the u.s. military where they were more unsure of who to trust and where it's safe and where it isn't than afghanistan. that hasn't changed from when i was there to this day. tony blinken thank you, steve warren good to have you on the team. >> pleasure to be here. how do president trump's most passionate forrers feel about his changing stance on afghanistan?
north korea? go ahead, tell us what's funny. >> kaboom! what are we waiting to are? i like the way he's handling north korea. >> afghanistan and north korea, i ask them about both. more of our must see voter panel ahead. it's time for the biggest sale of the year with the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your every move and automatically adjusts on both sides to keep you effortlessly comfortable. and snoring.... does your bed do that? the new 360 smart bed is part of our biggest sale of the year where all beds are on sale. and right now save 50% on the labor day limited edition bed, plus free home delivery. ends saturday! no splashing! wait so you got rid of verizon, just like that? uh-huh. i switched to t-mobile, kept my phone-everything on it- -oh, they even paid it off! wow! yeah. it's nice that every bad decision doesn't have to be permenant!
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president trump announcing that more troops will be going to afghanistan. this is a major shift from his position before taking office when he felt the u.s. should immediately get out of afghanistan. so how do the president's most passionate supporters feel about this change and other recent news events? i sat down with a group of trump voters from florida, pennsylvania, michigan, alabama and georgia, some of whom even volunteered for his campaign, to see how they feel today and to get the pulse of the people. the president is going to increase troop levels in afghanistan. show of hands who is comfortable with that? everybody would like to see troop levels go up in afghanistan. tell me why, bobby. >> i think it's a serious problem that we've kind of not taken that seriously in the last eight years of obama. and this is what he said he was
going to do, that he was going to -- >> no he didn't. president obama was increasing troop levels. president trump then donald trump tweeted we should get out, this is silly. we should rebuild the u.s., we should leave afghanistan immediately. we have wasted an enormous amount of blood and treasure in afghanistan we he wanted to get out. >> how many generals did he ta you can to before he tweeted that? >> none. >> he didn't have the information at that time. >> why is he tweeting about it? >> because he can. because he can. >> so then he didn't know what he was talking about. >> no. he didn't have the facts. >> he didn't have the information he has today, which is completely different. >> we have generals and military experts and we have to trust what they say. >> had obama listened to them in iraq, we may not be here with isis. >> president obama had way more troops over there. >> donald trump at the time didn't like that. >> still doesn't. >> the general said send 4,000 over there and we'll try to end it. >> don't you think president
obama was trying to end it? >> he pulled out too soon. >> president obama had a surge as well. >> right. >> he was trying to do the right thing as well. >> he surged afghanistan? >> yes, 2011, so now president trump will be trying a surge. >> you had a lot of military people saying obama didn't listen to them, he was ignoring what they said, a lot of military generals people came out saying that, he was not paying attention. >> i am i understand. i'm trying to understand the consistency it's bad when president obama does it, it's good when president trump does it. >> no. >> we have generals and military experts and we have to trust what they say. >> they know what they're is saying. >> okay, north korea. >> ha, ha. >> tell us what's funny? >> kaboom, what are we waiting for? no. i like the way he's handling north korea. >> how is he handling it? >> tough. he has to be tough because he's dealing with craziness, and i think -- >> talk about that -- >> i think our commander in chief has been a lot more disciplined.
if can he do that. >> it's almost chilling there is a video of president trump being interviewed and then civilian donald trump in 1999 and he was asked about north korea and he said what are we going to do, wait for them to have missiles pointed at us before we act? look at the situation now, where the nuclear program escalated to. kim jong-un has run around unchecked in that part of the world for a long time. >> some people you hear talking about president trump's mental instability. congress com jackie spear, her tweet "the president is showing signs of erratic behavior and mental instability that place the country in grave danger. time to invoke the 25th amendment." >> whatever. >> looking for her own 15 minutes of fame. >> president trump is smarter than anybody in this room. >> amen. >> he has made millions of dollars, he knows what he's doing, and for her to think he's mentally -- what in the world? why would you think that guy is mental.
he ain't mental. we had two choices hillary and him. if hillary is the president right now what do you think would be going on in north korea, what do you think the stock market would be doing? >> what do you think would be going on? >> north korea the guy would probably already have done it. i know the stock market wouldn't have gone up. >> trump is the world's biggest troll and everybody falls for it every day hook, line and sinker. he loves controlling the narrative. public enemy number one, republicans hate him and democrats hate him. you know why they hate him? because he threatens their existence. >> how is this good for the country? >> because that's for the media, the media to chew on and make everybody go hysterical while he's there getting things done. >> i don't find his twitter to be productive, i think it draws away from a positive message coming out of his administration. they have accomplished so much in terms of the economy, the stock market's up around 18%, unemployment is down to around 4.2%, which is the lowest since 2001, nearly 20 years.
i wish he would tone down the twitter to focus on what his administration accomplished. >> twitter is an effective means for him to communicate directly with his supporters bypassing the media getting his message out. >> republicans like senator tim scott, people speaking out saying they think the president sort of doesn't have the stability, the moral authority is what senator tim scott said to be a leader. >> they think if they do this now they'll get reelected. that's why i voted for trump. i'm for business and they bring this stuff up, civil rights. i went through civil rights in the '60s in alabama. this ain't nothing. they got 100, 200 people up there, and everybody is blowing it up. those people don't represent trump and neither, they don't represent hillary. >> if hillary was president they'd still be protests of taking down the statue and white supremacists and neo-nazis. eight years we heard obama say we can't refer to terrorists as
islamic radical terrorists because it empowers them and increases numbers. for eight months i heard the left called trump supporters white supremacists and nazis with no fear that will increase their numbers and empower them. >> the acknowledgment president trump was so angry president obama wouldn't call it for what he thought it was, why didn't he call out neo-nazis. >> if saying radical islamic terrorists empowers the terrorist and increases their numbers then why calling us white supremacist and nazis doesn't increase their numbers or empower them. >> how do you know? >> then why don't you stop saying it? >> exactly. exactly. >> your logic, hold on your circular logic is confusing. if president trump wants evil to be called out, why didn't he call neo-nazis by name at first? >> he didn't have all the facts. >> he didn't know the facts. >> because he just came out, it just happened. >> if you learned something there, stick around for
tomorrow. coming up, our trump supporter also talk about charlottesville. they have a lot to say, they have very strong feelings about that. here's a little preview. how many of you show of hands were troubled by the president's response to the violence in charlottesville? none of you minded how president trump responded? >> no. >> okay. wait until you hear what they think about charlottesville, and who they think was at fault. it's fascinating, and we follow it to its complete conclusion, and we'll show you how a conspiracy theory is born. we also are following another story for you, attorneys in missouri are hoping newly discovered dna evidence can spare the life of their client. they only have until midnight tonight to halt his execution. the race against time, next. [woman 1] huh. can't find my debit card.
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non-life-threatening. a man from missouri is set to be executed tonight, despite new dna evidence that may prove he is not the person that brutally stabbed a woman to death two decades ago. cnn's scott mcclain is live in missouri with more. tell us about this story, scott. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. if the state of missouri has its way, the next time marcellus williams goes to sleep, he won't wake up. he is inside this prison south of st. louis waiting to executed by lethal injection in less than 12 hours from now. his lawyers say that new dna evidence shows he's innocent, but it is not clear whether that evidence will convince the u.s. supreme court to stop the execution. >> it's an innocent man getting murdered and it's not right. >> reporter: marcellus williams jr. was only 8 when his father was arrested for murder. almost two decades later marcellus williams sr. is scheduled to be executed at 6:00 tonight for the state it's justice, to his son it's murder.
>> the victim being a white woman, him being black, muslim, a towering figure, they're going to make an example. >> reporter: williams was convicted of killing 42-year-old felicia gale inside of her home in 1998. she was found with more than 40 stab wounds and a kitchen knife still lodged in her body. the case hinged on the testimony of two other criminals, williams former girlfriend and the cell mate he bunked with serving time for an unrelated crime. williams was also tied to stolen items from gale's home. and nearly all-white jury convicted williams of murder, sentenced him to die. but now the defense has new dna evidence it says proves williams is innocent. what does the dna evidence show in your mind? >> that he did not hold the murder weapon and the murder weapon was found in the victim's body. >> reporter: it was enough to delay the first execution date while experts examined the dna on the knife. the first would not exclude
williams but three other analysts including greg hampekian said the evidence is enough to rule him out. >> this knife was handled rigorously. it was rubbed, and friction is what transfers dna. so whoever handled this knife likely left dna. it is not march lel succeellus . >> reporter: the state supreme court disagreed, allowing the execution to ag ahead. now at the 11th hour an appeal to the u.s. supreme court. josh holly said based on the another non-dna evidence in this case our office is confident in marcellus williams' guilt. as he waits for a decision the younger williams says his father is at peace with whatever comes next. >> i mean if tomorrow is his last day i'll be with him and watch, to be there for him and support him in his last time, his last hour. >> reporter: the supreme court is expected to have a decision
later today. if it rules the execution can go ahead, then williams will have only one lifeline left, the governor, who has yet to comment on this case. and even if williams is to be eventually exonerated for this crime as his lawyers hope, he has almost no chance of walking free, because of separate convictions for unrelated crimes, chris. >> appreciate it, thank you very much. let us know where that story develops. it's got a very compressed time line. another legal story called a cold-blooded attempted murder of an ohio judge but it really took a twist. the gunman is dead because the ambush turned into a shoot-out with the judge and a nearby probation officer returning fire. now police want to know if this shooting is connected to a high profile rape case. cnn's alisyn kosik has the story. >> reporter: shortly after 8:00 a.m. monday morning a judge in jefferson county, ohio, was ambushed according to authorities as he was making his
way to court. joseph braziss was short several times at point blank range in the stomach. >> this was cold-blooded attempted murder on a judge, and that's not the way it's supposed to be in america. >> reporter: the judge sitting in the county since 1980 was armed at the time, and returned fire along with a probation officer who happened to be outside. the suspected shooter, nate richmond, from steubenville, ohio, died at the scene. police are waiting for forensic analysis to determine who fired the fatal shot. >> if any judge could do it, he could. he's an avid sportsman, a hunter. he loves guns. he hunts deer hunting, pheasant hunting, duck hunting. he's a sportsman and i urged him years ago to carry a gun. if you're sitting on a bench you have to carry a gun because there are so many nut cases out there that want retaliation. >> reporter: a second man waiting in the alleged getaway car was hit by a ricochet
bullet. authorities have not filed any charges against him at this point. richmond was the father of steubenville football player malik richmond, one of two teens convicted in 2013 of raping a 16-year-old girl, a story that generated national outrage. records show richmond had a lengthy criminal history. on the day his son was convicted he had this to say. >> i 'm malik's father. throughout my life i've been through a lot of struggles. i'm an ex-alcoholic. i haven't had a drink in 12 years. i thank god for that, because when i drunk alcohol, it caused a lot of my problems, destroyed my life. >> reporter: authorities are still investigating a motive, but say they've seen no connection with his son's case. >> there's absolutely no reason to believe there's any connection whatsoever between
malik richmond and the actions of his father today. >> reporter: the judge underwent surgery at the university hospital in pittsburgh. he's in stable condition. alison kosik, cnn, new york. >> we have some news that has broken in the past hour. the u.s. navy confirming the divers found some of the remains of the ten missing sailors on that warship that was involved in a collision. what is causing these crashes? we will ask the former navy secretary, next. portunity salest before it ends. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months if you lease now. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. no splashing! wait so you got rid of verizon, just like that? uh-huh. i switched to t-mobile, kept my phone-everything on it- -oh, they even paid it off! wow! yeah. it's nice that every bad decision doesn't have to be permenant!
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morning. alisyn, thank you. >> what's your response to this news that's broken in the past hour that not surprising but obviously terribly sad for all of these families that some of the remains have been found? >> well the navy is a family, and the fact that we've lost sailors just shows how dangerous a job these great patriots do day in h and day out protecting us. it's a dangerous job, whether we're at war or peace. and but i also think that the chief of naval operations did exactly the right thing ordering a standdown, and an investigation not into this crash, only, but, what's going on? because we've had two of these deadly crashes now. >> yeah. >> in the seventh fleet, which is the most -- it's one of the busiest places we've got with north korea and the south china
sea. >> what do you think is goes on? what it behind these collisions? >> i think one thing, when i got there in '09, from 2001 to 2008 our fleet got gutted. it went from 316 ships down to 278 ships. we simply didn't have enough ships to do all of the jobs we need to do. so our deployments are getting longer and closer together, and we were just wearing out our equipment. wearing out our people. and that's one of the reasons i focused on building ships. i built twice as many ships in seven years that i was there than in the previous seven year, but it takes a long time to get those ships into the fleet. so if there was a steering casualty, that may be the fact that we have been running our equipment so much. and but there should have been a backup, and we train on that. and so it may also point to the fact too we've been wearing out
our people. and we've got to get these ships in the fleet and we've got to keep building them. the last budget that got put in didn't have enough ships in it. >> let me ask you about that. there's obviously a school of thought, one is that you don't need to keep building ships. you need to fix the ones you have, in fact the navy times in february wrote a somewhat scathing article about your tenure at the navy and i just want to read a portion of it because what they're thinking is this. under former secretary the navy made a policy of directing money away from operations and maintenance in order to keep funding shipbuilding. an effort to arrest the decline of the fleet's size which has dropped from more than 500 to today's 274. they're saying now the navy's leadership is lining up behind a message, fix our fleet, focus on
war fighting then grow the navy. did you build ships at the expepgs of maintaining the others? >> absolutely not. we didn't sepd a ship out that wasn't correctly maintained. but, if you keep that operational tempo, you're going to start wearing some stuff out. the nafy resets in stride, but we never cheated on maintenance, never cheated on operational monies. in order to build ships. but you have got to, got to, got to have more ships. or you're simply not going to be able to do the jobs. and what we're trying to do, because of this decline that the fleet just fell off the cliff, what we're trying to do is do the same thing that we had always been doing but with many fewer ships. but there was no, absolutely no loss of sh did sh in terms of time or in terms of effort are 0 in terms of focus on
maintenance, or on operations. >> but doesn't -- >> you've got to do those things together. >> is understood but the fact they say it suffered a staring casualty, doesn't that say is suffered a maintenance problem? >> as i said, we've been running these ships hard but one of the ways to keep from running these ships so hard, no matter how well you maintain them, is they're going to have mechanical problems unless you have the time, unless you have the ability to have enough ships out there, and so building the fleet had to be the first priority. maintaining the fleet also had to be right there. >> one more thing that i want to run by you, mr. secretary. this admiral -- one of the spokes people -- richardson had
another theory he tweeted out. to clarify, the possibility of cyber intrusion or sabotage. no indications but review will consider all possibilities. do you think that if there was a staring casualty that there could have been some sort of cyber intrusion or hack? >> um, i think john richardson's got it right. i mean i don't know what the situation is but you've got to look at the possibility of cyber. we're so network now, we're so dependent on cyber that that's possible. but a staring casualty is not one of those things that you think about when you -- when cyber. but when you have a staring casualty, one of the things we train on all the time is if you have a staring casualty, and what do you do then and how do you quickly get staring back with one of your alternative systems. i think that's why he's looking
at every possibility. >> understood. former secretary of the navy, thank you very much for being here with all of that fgs information. >> following a lot of news. let's get after it. >> hour troops will fight to win. conditions on the ground will guide our strategy. >> i think what you saw last night is something the president beliefs in and will follow through with. >> victory will have a clear definition. attacking our enemies, obliterating isis. >> just some nibbling around the edges. >> there is no room for bigotry and no tolerance for hate. >> i do believe that he messed up on tuesday. >> president trump has back on the campaign trail tonight with a rally in arizona. >> you're going to go to phoenix and make a