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tv   Reliable Sources  CNN  January 17, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PST

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to my fellow americans, today we're united in welcoming home sons and husbands who in lonely prison cells have endured an absolute nightmare. they never gave in and they never gave up. at long last they can stand tall and bring deep the fresh air of freedom. as a nation, we face real challenges around the world and here at home. many of them will not be resolved quickly or easily. today's progress, americans coming home, an iran that's rolled back its nuclear program and accepted unprecedented monitoring of that program, these things are a reminder of what we can achieve when we leave with strength and wisdom, with courage and resolve and patience. america can do and has done big things when we work together. we can leave this world and make it safer and more secure for our
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children and grandchildren for generations to come. i want to thank, once again, secretary kerry, our entire national security team led by susan rice. i'm grateful for all the assistance that we received from our allies and partners. i'm hopeful this signals the opportunity for iran to work more cooperatively with nations around the world to advance their interests and the interest of people who are looking for peace and security for their families. thank you so much. god bless you. god bless the united states of america. >> where do you see this relationship going -- >> president obama speaking in the cabinet room of the white house this morning. speaking for just over 15 or 16 minutes heralding two big steps when it comes to iran. one the implementation to remove
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all the potentially weaponized material from iran that could be used for a nuclear weapon while sanctions against iran are lifted that could be roughly 100 billion dollar in assets being returned to iran. at the same time talking about how these relation, this thaw in relations between the united states and iran has allowed much progress when it comes to very, very difficult situations when it comes to americans being held starting with the ten sailors held roughly three days ago or so and then released but also with the five americans that were released that we knew about, including the former u.s. marine held for four and a half years. the washington post reporter held for a year and a half. the christian pastor held for three and a half years.
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then two individuals that the united states did not know much abo about. somebody who's disappearance was not reported although he's been released. he's staying in iran for now and then a fifth individual, a researcher who was studying and held. that was another situation that had not been reported. often times these cases are not brought to the attention of the media because it's easier for those negotiating for their release if there is not public attention brought to the situation. let me bring in fareed as a victory for diplomacy and the obama approach for dealing with enemies. he talked about strength and wisdom.
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he also slipped in a small reference to a financial dispute resolved in which the united states will be releasing some money to the iranians. i hate to put you on the spot, do you know what he's talking about with that situation? >> i did not. the united states has been able to freeze certain moneys that -- certain revenues that iran gets. presumably this is one of those. i think it's important to remember when people talk about iran getting all this money, the united states giving iran all this money, the vast majority of the money they're getting is theirs. it goes like this. iran sells india or south korea oil. for the last two years when iran has sold india or south korea oil, the indians or south koreans have paid for that but it's been frozen in an account in an indian bank or south korean bank because of the u.n. sanctions. not the american sanctions, the
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u.n. sanctions that have been put in place. now with these u.n. sanctions lifted, that money that was money paid by india or south korea to iran will now go back to iran. in some cases, it's a lot less than people think because the iranians desperate and frustrated did barter agreements. with the chinese, for example. the chinese owe the iranians a lot of oil money but they gave them some stuff. infrastructure equipment in return. that's the 95, 99% of the money we're talking about. there are a few places where the united states had directly gotten some iranian revenues, not directly, indirectly, and presumably the president is talking about that. >> fareed, one thing the president did not mention in his
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speech, as far as i could tell was the fact that a few weeks ago iran broke, violated a treaty when it came to a ballistic missile test. the united states, this weekend, the treasury department announcing some further sanctions against individuals in iran. there is a compartmentalization and these americans unjustly held in iran and being released. there's also much more progress, much more work that needs to be done. >> i think you put it exactly right. this is a compartmentalized relationship. the nuclear deal has been put into one program into a shrink wrap mode.
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whether it's the release of these prisoners, the hope is that each compartment begins to open up. the president and the secretary of state very clear that is not their expectation. that is their hope. the president making the final plea as he has in the past to the iranian people and this was about next month's elections in iran both for the parliament and the assembly of experts saying help us to open up your country. help us to integrate your country into the world. there's a lot of subtle efforts to open up the compartments but for now they remain sealed. >> there's going to be much, a lot of time to debate the merits of the obama diplomatic effort and republicans have been criticizing it for years and i'm sure we're going to be hearing much more about that. brian, let's take a moment as
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the president did to talk about the families that have been reunited. these americans held against their will in iran. the former u.s. marine held for four and a half years. jason rezaian of the washington post and two other individuals that we didn't know much about. i know you've been covering the jason rezaian case since it happened. this is the washington post bureau chief who has been detained for a year and a half. he's now finally on his way back to the united states. what are you hearing from your sources at the washington post? they must be overjoyed. >> absolutely. a day they have been waiting 545 days to have happened. each of these men were in iran
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for different reasons. he would have been writing stories today about this deal. instead, he's on the way to europe. expected the land very shortly. i think it's worth reflecting on the fact we haven't seen any photos of videos of him since his deposititention. we're showing pictures on the screen before july of 2014. we haven't seen the other men. we haven't had physical evidence of how they are doing, what their condition is. that's why these medical check ups are so important. it seems this is a reflection on the media news cycle. the hyper speed environment where we are in. there's instant decisions, instant critiques and instant reactions to news. we saw that earlier in the week with the sailors that were in iranian custody briefly. some of the comments don't look so good on sunday, several days later. same is true for the comments made last summer, last fall. there was so much understandable concern about these men that were being held in iran.
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some of the judgments and critique of the administration don't sound so right now that we're aware of these 14 months of secret negotiations. seems there's a clash between this hyper speed news environment where we all want answers instantly and these slow pace of diplomacy. >> that's right. there's been criticism from the right and left. one of the hikers detained in iran who was freed in 2011 when former secretary of state hillary clinton on saturday, heralding the deal, talking about how great these americans were being free and talking about the need for sanctions against iran for violating the ballistic missile treaty they signed for firing that missile. that former hiker writes very critical of secretary clinton for putting this deal, because the americans weren't out of iran yet, putting it in peril.
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there's obviously a great sensitivity about it. >> i thought it was wise when we heard hillary clinton trying to address that question. you were bringing up shane bower's case. it makes the democratic debate even more interesting to see them in the wake of this news this morning. >> let's take a moment to look at this u.s.-iranian relationship going forward. obviously, iran still a state sponsor of terrorism according to the u.s. state department. iran in violation of the ballistic missile treaty. yet, obviously, today is a day of reckonning. it's a day where the relationship is better than it has been since the 1970s.
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>> absolutely. since 1979 since the revolution. it's paid dividends already. my own suggestion would be for those that want to criticize the president for diplomacy for this approach, there are other places you could look. you could say the reset with russia didn't work well. you would argue that perhaps the diplomatic pressure with israel backfired. this is a case where it strikes me it clearly has yielded benefits. i have a personal experience here. i was the editor of newsweek international when iran took one of our journalists and put him in prison. he was the longest serving american journalist put in prison before jason was. it was hellish to try to figure out way to get him out because the united states had no one to talk to because the united states had no relations. i spoke with secretary clinton.
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i spoke with people at the state department time and time again. finally, i had to go to the canadians because he had a canadian passport. that proved to provide some avenues because the canadians had relations with iran. the simple fact that john kerry have negotiated a lot together, know each other, trust each other to a certain extent makes an enormous difference when these kinds of things crop up, and they will crop up. it's important to remember that iran and the united states still have an adversarid vaddversaria relationship. if a hiker strays into france by police take, it doesn't matter who knows whom. it's a friendly country. the guy will come back. it's when you have these tense relations that you need
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diplomacy. >> thank you. there's going to be a lot to discuss and celebrate. stay with cnn for the coverage about this historic day. i'm going to throw it to brian who will pick it up and resume his show, "reliable sources." we have a lot to discuss about the media angles on this story and what his experience has been like in prison and what will happen next for the others detained. we'll talk about that and the choices by some news outlets not to report on the prisoner swaps. more on that in a moment.
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at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like working from home equals not working. numbers look pretty good, how's it on your end dave? oh, the numbers look so good. dave, dave's on it.
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a special edition of "reliable sources" as we cover the breaking news about the american prisoners who are now leaving iran now believed to be in the air flying to europe. we want to talk about what
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happens next. we know that jason is with his wife and my mother. a part of a historic flight. one of newly released men made the decision to stay in iran after his release. the rest are on the plane. when we get where they have landed, we'll let you know. we'll talk about what will happen for jason and the other detained americans that are free. the expectation is they will spend a few days at a military facility in germany and return to the united states. the washington post is celebrating this morning. for 545 days this newspaper has been tirelessly campaigning for the freedom of their reporter. you see this morning the owner of the post weighing in on twitter saying wheels up and out of iranian air space. the hashtag is notable. it says jason is free. the campaign hashtag for 18 months was free jason.
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the top editors of the post are already in europe. they fly to europe on friday in expectation of this news on saturday. for the families involved, all the families, it's a relief to know their loved ones are on the way out of iran. we heard from the brother of jason that you may have seen. here is his statement from this morning. the whole family says they are relieved that jason is on his way home. it's talented journalist who is doing his job fairly, accurately and lawfully. after nearly a year and a half of delays jason's release has brought indescribable relief and joy to our family. this might manightmare is appron end. what you didn't know is the secret negotiations were happying. these talks were ongoing. at some news outlets, including cnn, were aware of the talks but chose not to report it for fear
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it could disrupt talks in a negativew way. let's bring in two experts. the head of news at npr and joel, the executive committee to protect journalists. i want to say something off the top. 199 journalists around the world were imprisoned last year. as of today, there are 19 journalists still in jail just in iran. >> actually, 18 now that jason is released. there are 18 left. they have covered the country from a variety of perspectives. there's a crackdown under way in iran. we need to celebrate jason's release. this is not breakthrough in terms of press freedom or human rights in iran. >> let's discuss how difficulty it is to report from the country. jason is an extreme example. >> iran's extremely difficult country to operate in.
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in 1948, the united nations said that gathering and sharing information was a fundamental human right. iran is clearly one of a number of countries in the world that's not close to recognizing that right. one of the things we'll be watching is what happens now. does it become even more difficult to operate. do they accept visas. as joel was pointing out, the people in prison are not mostly international journalists like jason. they are local journalist who is have been arrested because of things they did inside irairan. >> those cases get a lot less press attention. that's the sad truth of the situation. i'm wondering if you can talk to us about the last 18 months. we're talking about the future. let's go back in time to the efforts ongoing to secure jason's release. ten days ago you and the head of other news outlets sent a letter to john kerry urging the government to do more. at the time, did you know about these secret prisoner swap
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talks? >> i think you have to put it into two pieces. we did not know about the specific details of the last minute talks. it was publicly known, not just to journalists, but it was public information that iran offered a swap and the united states had at first rejected it and the united states was having separate side bar talks. secretary kerry said he was working on the issue. what was secret and what was publicly known need to be separated a little bit. it was not a secret this idea was on the table. some news organizations, i gather, this was not true of us, know more detail about what was happening in the last week or two. >> it's rare for a news outlet to sit on information, to put a lid on information. the huffington post, cnn, the wall street journal and the washington post were aware and made choices not to report it. let me share a statement from cnn. cnn said in statement last night
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like all of our colleagues in immediamedia who were aware, wet report on this information in order to avoid any possibility of interfering with the negotiations. the decision was made by cnn following a request from the u.s. government to withhold the information so as not to jeopardize the possible release of those being held. >> it makes sense the washington post was aware of these talks involving one of these mep. was this the right call? >> i wouldn't second guess this one.mep. was this the right call? >> i wouldn't second guess this one.emep. was this the right call? >> i wouldn't second guess this one.nmep. was this the right call? >> i wouldn't second guess this one.. was this the right call? >> i wouldn't second guess this one. if you're going to put lives in danger but what you publish, you need to be extremely careful. that was the test applied here. i was very deeply involved at the ap in a story about robert levinson who is one of the people still missing in iran.
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we don't know if he's dead or alive. he was sent in by a rogue group at the cia. it was a scandalous situation. it was an extraordinary story and it was an enormous public interest in publishing it. we held that story for quite a long time any way because levinson's family and the government worried he would be put in danger by publishing that story. even though there was a strong interest in publishing, we waited a while. we decided, and i think we made the right call that the public interest in knowing how badly the cia handled that situation outweighed the possible of a risk to levinson, which we judged to be considerfully redu redur reduced. >> i want to put a graphic that we produced. it showed where other journalists are being held today. the number 198 now after jason's release today. is the situation for journalist in these difficult parts of the world getting any less difficult
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or getting worse in. >> it's getting worse. one way to consider this is jason is a correspondent for the washington post. this is unprecedented. no journalist has ever been held for international correspondent for this length of time. it's unprecedented. if a journalist working for the washington post is subject to this kind of treatment, imagine what local journalists around the world, the kind of pressure they are under. they are the ones who are bringing us the news. now in iran, it's a network of of local journalists who inform the international correspondent. that's how the news gets out. this crackdown affects the people in iran, but it really affects people around the world who want to understand what's happening in that country. >> this is an extremely important point joel is making. the old days of the swashbuckling who came in, those days are over. more and more we are dependent
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on well-trained, well-educated journalists in their countries. they know the countries better than any of us did and they are the future of journalism. the impunity with which they are being imprisoned but murdered this many countries is very frightening. >> jason is a dual citizen of iran and american. iran said he's only an iranian citizen. they wouldn't respect the dual nationality. you made the point where he was a political hostage. we didn't use the word hostage very often. you didn't hear the government say it, but i'm hearing more people use that word. >> that was my frame work all along. i had different ways of describing it. i said it was a judicial kidnapping. he was a judicial hostage. this is typical behavior. when someone is put in jail,
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they want something in exchange. we should celebrate that he is free. we should congratulate the in r international campaign. we have to accept that this was a -- he was a judicial hostage and he's free today because the ransom was paid. >> thank you both for being here this morning. next, what might be next for jason and the other men that are on the way out of iran right now. we'll speak to three journalists who were held. one was kidnapped. two were held by iran. we'll hear their stories, next. i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far.
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545 days. that's the amount of time jason rezian spent in prison in iran. charged with ridiculous claims with no proof. he was at times unable to see his family. there was no clear resolution in sight. we know these secret talks, these secret prisoner swap talks led to his release and several other americans in iranian custody. reflect on the fact he got married in april 2013 and arrested in july of 2014. he's spent more time as a married man in jail than with his wife. right now they're together on a flight to europe and eventually back to the united states. i have two guests who can tell
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us what this experience may be like. david is a reporter for reuters, previously at the new york times. he was kidnapped in 2008 by the taliban and escaped after nearly eight months in captivity. she was sentenced to eight years in prison only to have her sentenced overturned in may. you were in the same prison as jason was for a shorter amount of time. what happens today? what happens tomorrow for him? >> well, everybody's case is a little different. i just needed time to be with my family and loved ones and feel safe and free. he needs time to be with his loved ones and maybe to enjoy some basic freedoms that you don't get in prison that you probably never appreciated before just walking down the street. talking on the phone. shutting off the lights at night. >> when he was interviewed by
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anthony bourdain, he talked about missing burritos. >> he'll probably get plenty of those. >> you were able to free yourself and escape and you wrote about the experience. >> he'll be thrilled. i remember kissing the sidewalk in front of the apartment building with my wife. she was upset by that. she was like couldn't you have kissed the floor of the lobby. it might have been cleaner. he'll write. it was a cathartic thing to write about it. i didn't write at all for weeks. i sat around my family. none of this is jason's fault or our fault but i apologized to them quite a bit. it's a nightmare for editors and families. it's the kidnappers, the irani n
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iranians that are at fault. >> i'd like to imagine he was writing a story in his mind all the time as way of processing or getting through what was going on. we don't know that for sure. let me bring in one more guest now. he's an editor of iran he was jailed in 2009. you were held for 118 days. "rosewater" was based on you. what would you say? >> i have advice for the media. i would like my colleagues in media to leave jason and the other released prisoners alone for a while. i'm sure that jason will be writing something for washington post in a couple of weeks, in one month. he will write for washington post for sure because of everything they've done for him. i would like to ask -- i beg my
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colleagues in media to leave them alone. no one knows what stress they have gone through. they have to relax at the moment. they have to be with their families. they have to have their private moments. they have to get their thoughts together, their lives together. i don't know jason personally, so i don't have any advice for him. i have a lot of advice for my colleagues to leave these prisoners alone. >> david, we were discussing in the last block, this issue of news organizations, including cnn keeping it secret even though we knew about the prisoner swap talk. when you were kidnap, i and many others were aware of the situation. it was never reported. it was always kept a secret. lately there's been talk about whether that's the right strategy or not in journalist kidnappings. do you think, in this case, involving iran and jason, do these news outlets make the right decision? >> i think they did in keeping these quiet.
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the basic ideas if it's going to cause harm, you don't publish the information. the pattern we see is when governments hold people and the situation is getting worse as joel simon said, it's outrageous how long jason was held. news organizations need to be aggressive about pressuring the governments to let people go. we have a responsibility, we're not very popular and we need to get it right. do these kind of black outs in the most rare circumstances. we're all trying and the public doesn't believe us so much. it's an honor to be in this profession. these events remind us of that. >> one last question, you're a working journalist every day. would you return to iran under these conditions? >> probably not at this time. i hope i can one day. knowing journalists are still in
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jail there. i have a friend there. for people like me, i don't think it's the best time but for other people it's totally fine. >> thank you for being here. coming up, the democratic candidates for president gathering in south carolina. their first debate of 2016. why do the party powers pick a sunday night on a three-day weekend? the dnc chair joins us after the break. this is sheldon, whose long day setting up the news starts with arthritis pain and a choice.
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welcome back. we're standing by for any information about jason rezian or any other american prisoners who have left iran. tonight in charleston, south carolina, bernie sanders, hillary clinton and martin o'mallel will debate. you could be forgiven for not knowing there was a debate. the last one was held on the saturday before christmas. their gop counter parts have paced off six times. these are the ratings for all the debates so far. the red bars are the ratings for the gop debates topping at 25. the blue bars are the lower rated democratic debates. even the fox business debate a few days ago. it had 11 million viewers which is higher than the recent democratic debates. sanders and o' malley have been
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vocal about wanting more debates. some clinton advisors are regretting that and wishing they had pushed for anymore debates. would anymore be added to the schedule. let's ask dnc chair. i don't know you've said you don't want an explosion of debates. are you considering adding one or two more? >> we're thrilled to be here in charleston, south carolina for our fourth democratic primary debate over dr. martin luther king weekend. this was a very important and specifically appointed reason that we brought our debate here to charleston, south carolina and had it over this weekend. our main debate partners, the congressional black caucus asked us to host the south carolina debate over this martin luther king weekend. then, when we had the tragedy of
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the emmanuel nine happen, it became even more poignant and important. we're proud to be hosting this debate and gives us an opportunity to talk about the issues that are critically important to the african-american community and helping people reach the middle class and draw the really stark and clear contrast that we have from the republican debate which was blocked from the mother emmanuel church and yet all of their candidates, criticize president obama for having the nerve to suggest and adopt policy that would prevent people who shouldn't have guns to get them. >> you're scheduled in charleston, why a sunday night? sunday night is downtown abbey night. there's so many great shows on. don't you think it will hurt your ratings? isn't it in your interest to have high ratings? >> we're very proud that we have had record viewership for our
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democratic primary debates. 58 out of the -- our debates have vested the viewership of 58 out of the last 61 primary debates in 2008 and 2012. in fact, our first debate, beat at least two of the republican debates and our last debate compared to the republican last debate was just a little bit less than theirs. even the debate on the six days before christmas had almost as high a viewership as our prior debate. we have had a collection of robust viewership that has broken our records for prior debates. we've had a much more substantive and serious discussion where americans have chance instead of watching the food fight happening on the other side of the aisle, get to hear our candidates talk about how they will move forward. >> it sounds to me like you're not wiggling at all. there's no indication you may
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add some to the calendar in the next couple of months. >> it's important we have the candidates have a variety of opportunities to be seen by voters. we have had candidate forums and additional forums going forward. >> that's what frustrates me. the black and brown forum. you couldn't see the ratings. they were so low on the fusion network. i feel like your voices aren't getting heard the way they could be if there were more events. >> we believe strongly the opportunity for voters to see our candidates and make sure we're not pulling them off the campaign trail every other day to prepare for a debate. voters can get the up close and personal look and make sure unlike in late erp pr primaries there's a big collection, we're giving them an opportunity to have the really up close and personal kick the tires time and a lot more debates will take away from that.
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there's no number of debates that will satisfy everyone. i did my best to make sure, along with my staff, and debate partners to come up with a schedule to maximize the opportunity for voters to see our candidates. >> i agree with you. there's no amount that would satisfy everyone. on the other hand you're next debate is february 11. it's after iowa and new hampshire. seems to me like we're learning a lot more -- >> keep in mind they have a dozen candidates. we have three. i understand that they've got a reality tv star that is attracting a lot of train wreck. you know you shouldn't watch but you can't help yourself type interest. on our side, we're getting record viewership for our debates. we've had three and this is our fourth. that's paubecause voters really care about the issue. they care about how hearing how candidates will continue to build on the job growth that
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we've had. the 70 straight months of private sector job growth and how to pull us out of the worst economic crisis and continue moving us forward. they like watching in the same way they like watching a train wreck. >> t minus nine hours. thank you for being here. >> looking forward to it. thank you. up next, is sean penn a journalist? why am aeven asking that question? we'll talk about the context for that question for his being magazine article this "rolling stone" and we'll hear from the publisher right after this. it's a fact. kind of like reunions equal blatant lying. the company is actually doing really well on, on social media. oh that's interesting. i - i started social media. oh! it was defiance is in our bones. citracal pearls. delicious berries and cream. soft, chewable, calcium plus vitamin d. only from citracal.
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that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. now i can download my dvr recordings and take them anywhere. ready or not, here i come! (whispers) now hide-and-seek time can also be catch-up-on-my-shows time.
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for the first time since that controversial interview with mexican drug cartel leader "el chapo" was published this time last week in "rolling stone." >> when you get the story that every journalist in the world wanted, there's a lot of green-eyed monsters that are going to give you a kiss. >> those are jealous journalists. >> yes. of course there's people who don't like me out of the gate. not without controversy. fair enough. at the same time, you know when journalists who want to say that i'm not a journalist, womell, i want to see the license that says that they're a journalist. >> i do love that answer from mr. penn. so how should we be viewing him and does it matter if he's a journalist or not. joining me now, the former ted tore and chief of "people" magazine. let me start with the publisher
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of "rolling stone." i was able to speak with him on the phone the other day asking about his position about this article. let me put on screen what he said to me. he said this was on of the biggest scoops in "rolling stone's" history. he said some people would have given their first born child to get this story. kelly, he says anyone would have done the same thing, meaning anyone would have let "el chapo" read the story ahead of time and then suggest or demand changes. this drug lord didn't actually want anything changed in the article. do you believe it was unethical for the magazine to offer story approval in the first place in. >> yes, absolutely. a controversial figure like "el chapo," you can let him know what his quotes are. you can let him do an accuracy check on the story and address his concerns that way, but you don't need to let him read the story ahead of time. it changes the way the reporter interacts with the source when
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you know that that's a condition. so that was a huge mistake. >> i know that you don't think penn qualifies as a journalist. duke do you think it matters, the label journalist or activist or writer? >> not so much, really. i actually think he has a point there, that it's not -- we aren't a licensed profession. however, the editor of the magazine, he has a job to do and he needs to make sure whichever reporter he's sending out, that that person has the magazine's audience in mind. that means acting journalistically and giving them a story that will inform them and help them understand the situation a little better. that's where "rolling stone" failed. >> larry, you've been in this position. if sean penn had come to you with this opportunity, what would you have said to him?
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>> you would have sat down and figured out a way to do this. he is absolutely right that people do get a chance to look at quotes. the fact -- >> ridiculous why? >> because alexander hamilton was a journalist. we don't label these people -- you don't have to go to some guild to get approved. i think the failure is absolutely with the editors and the story. part of me feels sorry for "el chapo," it's like bad warmed over hunter thompson stuff. i don't think sean did his job. let's figure out a way to get this. i think to kind of slice a little bit thin with what kelly was saying, the sin is not necessarily letting someone see the story. the sin would have been do you change the story based on what he asked for. ultimately, the idea is to give the readers a clear view of what
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happened. "rolling stone" said he asked for approval and we gave it to them. the readers can decide themselves if the story's worth it. >> was it worth it? >> no, it wasn't worth it. the cloak and dagger stuff is not there. the idea that he sat for seven hours without a pen or pencil and then had to recreate it, i don't think it really paid out of. he didn't know what was going to happen. but any editor would have said, you have "el chapo," let's figure out how to do this. >> penn wanted to start a conversation about the drug war, but instead the conversation was about sean penn. shouldn't he have known that was going to happen? >> oh, absolutely. yeah. pi mean, you can't write a self-indulgent 10,000 word piece and expect to achieve some intellectual masterpiece. if he really wanted to do that, he would have been working with an editor who was capable of
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helping him get there. and maybe he was a little too ambitious in the first place. writers can't go from zero to 60 without any experience. and nothing that sean penn has written in the past suggested that he was capable of achieving the article that he set out to do. >> kelly mcbride, larry, thank you both for being here this morning. still ahead, a cable news channel shutting down after just two and a half years. find out why right after this. ♪ while you're watching this, i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets.
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al jazeera america bold attempt to take on cnn and the bbc is shutting down. we're working on an in-depth story about what went wrong. also sign up for our "reliable sources" news letter and join us this time next week for the program. "state of the union" with jake tapper starts right now. back-to-back. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are both here just hours before they face off at the debate. >> secretary clinton and her campaign now know she's in serious trouble. >> the race tightens with the first votes just days away. >> senator sanders has some very big ideas, but he hasn't yet told anybody how he would pay for them. >> could clinton lose iowa again. >> i know it's make-or-break time. >> both democratic candidates will be here in minutes. plus -- republican front-runner donald trump the gloves are off as he and ted cr