tv Squawk Alley CNBC March 8, 2017 11:00am-12:01pm EST
welcome back to "squawk on the street." a quick market check here as bond yields rise on the back of that strong adp report. rate-sensitive sectors are getting hit. take a look at utilities, the worst-performing sector in today's trade, down more than 1%. nat gas prices also not helping the story as prices rise here, hitting a two-week high. big-percentage losers in the utility space, nrg energy, firstenergy, pinnacle west and sempra. carl, back to you. >> thank you, seema mody. good morning. it is 8:00 a.m. at tesla
headquarters in palo alto, 11:00 a.m. on wall street, and "squawk alley" is live. ♪ good wednesday morning. welcome to "squawk alley." i'm carl quintanilla with jon fortt, sara eisen at post 9. obviously, a busy day, even though the markets aren't showing a whole lot of volatility. the president is going to sit down with some infrastructure ceos at 12:30 eastern time. attendees include tesla's elon musk, apollo co-founder josh harris, real estate moegle richard lefrak and david tepper
making waves on "squawk box" this morning, discussing the new regulation atmosphere in washington. >> they're going to give you less regulations for obamacare. they're going to give you a tax cut. everything is this -- everything is neutral to positive that can come their way, versus an atmosphere for the last 16 years, let's call it, that's been regulation, regulation, regulation. >> joining us this morning, ben mandel, jpmorgan global strategist, michael kacannon. i don't know if you heard what tepper said, but he's talking about growth breaking out in every corner of the world, central banks who are going to need to get a lot more serious and make a turn. we'll see what the ecb does tomorrow, but are you there? are you that optimistic about what he called smooth sailing ahead? >> i'm not sure about smooth, but these are all part and parcel of global reflation trades, okay? so, let me be clear, they're not trump trades, they're global reflation trades, and we see those as having three drivers.
one is the global growth environment, pickup in nominal global gdp and earnings as a result. two, low downside risk from lower session risk. and three, you can imagine a policy overlay on top of trumpo the fed. so, we see flashing green lights on lower risk and global growth. policy, once you average out the negative and positive notes over the next few months is more or less neutral, okay? so you don't have to be a big believer in tax reform to get on board with reflation trades. >> he did say, though, tepper, that is, this morning that we shouldn't do any crazy trade policies. is that bullish argument he and others are making ignoring which direction the white house is going on trade? >> i think you definitely see that as a downside risk, okay? so, what are upside risks to the economy? big boost from tax reform, potentially infrastructure spending, although we're not holding our breath on either of those things. what are the downside risks? it comes largely from an
inward-looking, slightly more antagonistic economic diplomacy. >> i guess why does it seem like the market is pricing in the upside risks and not the downside risks? >> i'd say the market is somewhere in the middle. i'd say you can't have an outright fail on tax reform at this rate, but otherwise, the expectations aren't extremely high. part of that has to do with the calendar, right? i mean, the tyranny of the calendar. we have affordable care act reform ahead of that. we have the debt ceiling coming up. we have all the confirmations. we have the drafting of a tax deal and making its way through congress. so, there's a lot that needs to happen before you get to that up side. so, i actually think that it's more tempered than you think. >> speaking of the calendar, michael, goldman's out with a note -- if republican lawmakers are unable to reach a consensus on health legislation by this say late may or june, we would expect them to shift their focus to tax reform, and that would be no easy task because of the promises that were made.
but does the challenges it faces in this very early going suggest that it would run up against that tight deadline? >> well, if you remember, the obama administration said that it wanted to do health care reform in just a couple of months, and that took 15 months, more than a year. i think that's overly optimistic to think that, either that republicans are going to be able to get a health care bill together by may and to the president's desk, or that that will end the work they have to do on health care. because if you look at the bill that they are pushing right now, it preserves the core elements of obamacare that are making health insurance markets so unstable and causing them to collapse so far in the eastern half of tennessee, where 43,000 americans are not going to have any coverage next year. >> right. >> republicans are going to have to come back again and again and again and try to patch up obamacare if they don't repeal it in full, and this bill does not. >> michael, pretty safe to say you hate this republican
proposal to kind of patch up or fix obamacare, but it seems the central problem is this -- how do you get healthy people to pay for health insurance? from your perspective, what is exactly the right way to do that? >> the first thing you do is you repeal obamacare in full. that will cause health insurance premiums to drop for most of the people affected. so, healthy people will see their premiums fall. they will be able to afford coverage better than they can now. more people will enroll in coverage. a lot of people will then not be able to afford coverage because they'll be not able to afford premiums. that's a fairly small problem and you block grant the medicaid program so states can give that to truly needy people. there are a lot of people enrolled in medicaid who don't need to be there. there is a lot of fraud that would be gotten rid of if we block grant to medicaid.
and you expand health savings accounts so you can move the money that employers are now controlling and spending on our behalf, using to pick our health benefits. you give that to the workers who earned it. let them choose health insurance that meets their needs, that's portable, stays with them from job to job. that will reduce the problem of pre-existing conditions, and they will put downward pressure on prices because they'll be spending their own money rather than spending their employer's money, and that's how you make health care more affordable for the most vulnerable. >> so, ben, it looks like that's probably not going to happen the way he out lines it, so how much of a risk is that? how much of a drag on the economy, on the markets, if this blows up? >> i mean, i think it's a negative signal, for sure, right? i think it prices into the general view on risk even more so than the idiosyncratic effect on the health care sector and the rotation story we've seen. this is all about the global reflation trade, and the fact that you've seen -- you know, as i mentioned, the first two drivers of reflation firing on all cylinders is an offset to that. so, you know, you can't have an
epic fail on trade policy, you can't have an epic fail on tax reform, of which health care is a precursor. but other than that, neutral outcomes will be welcome. >> we're going to find out what the calendar can hold over the next few weeks and months. ben, michael, appreciate your time very much. thanks. >> thanks for having me. we do want to check in on the markets at this hour. the dow right now trading down about 19 points. caterpillar is the biggest drag on the dow. the s&p and the nasdaq stay positive. nasdaq actually outperforming, up 0.4%. a blowout jobs number out of adp this morning, 298,000 new jobs compared to estimates calling for about 189,000 created in the private sector. you also have doubleline capital chief executive jeffrey gunlocke weighing in on interest rates and the fed. >> you may start to go old-school and start to see more sequential fed rate hikes. and if we are going to go old-school, what's happened historically, precredit crisis, the fed gets into sequential
hiking mode and they keep doing it until something breaks. >> we will see what the fed does next week and what the main jobs report on friday looks like. i mentioned caterpillar, that is a big mover to the down side today. a new government report accusing them of accounting fraud to boost its stock price, according to "the new york times," and that stock now is down a little more than 1%. it's actually not doing as bad as some might have thought, carl, because you have more talk of infrastructure coming from the white house, and caterpillar's considered a key beneficiary. >> we're awaiting arrivals for that very meeting. when we come back, snapping back. why david tepper is a fan of snapchat. the stock is bouncing back a little today. peter thiel's warning for silicon valley. we'll break down what he said in houston. and the ceo of adidas on the record. we'll get his take on europe and how you can get the latest fair of yeezy sneakers, when "squawk alley" comes back.
what they're currently doing in their advertising. pull some research, create a great story. trying to figure out some way of building some kind of trust in a very quick moment. you have to love to work with people. our goal, without a doubt, is that all customers are satisfied before they leave. ♪ shares of snap getting a little bounce. the stock was set to open lower. that was before apple management's david tepper weighed in on the company and its ipo this morning on "squawk box." listen. >> i'm not jumping through the hoop to buy at $21.80, but should it go down closer to the original offer price, i would love to buy the stock there. i'm a believer in the company. it's a valuation question to me. for me, i'm in the nowhere land of valuation right here. you know, you can call that, you
know, $19 to $23 or whatever, $24, that you know, you don't touch your position. and up near $30, it's too high for right now. one day it may be $30, one day it may be $100, but today it's too high at $30. >> all right. today it's at $22, which i guess is still that no man's land. farhad manjoo of "the new york times" is joining us along with christina norman, former open wa oprah winfrey network ceo and mtv. good morning to both of you. christina, you're a media network. where does snap fit into this ecosystem in terms of its importance? it seems like they embraced content at a level most tech companies have not. most seem to hold their nose, say okay, we'll do content if we have to. snap's into it. >> well, definitely, but also they're really into superserving their audience. if you're going to reach millenials, you've got to be on snarnsion and that's what we've seen from a lot of our clients. they're interested in finding ways to play there and into
finding the right opportunities to be there. what's so great about snap is that the environment is completely it riotive, so you don't have to do the same thing all the time. >> is it a problem that growth seems to have slowed down with instagram copying some of the features? >> it is early days, for sure, so i think we're seeing people responding to the offering out there, advertisers still really trying to figure out what the right way for them to be in that space is. a lot of trial and error, a lot of test and fail, and i think we're going to see some interesting innovations and interesting executions coming out of that. >> and farhad, we asked kara swisher a few days ago what she thought was the most important metric to watch on snap. she said revenue. is there something else that you're looking at to sort of gauge it? i mean, we could watch the stock, but we know that's all over the place. >> this is not a metric so much as just watch what they create, watch the products they create. i think one of the interesting things about snap is that they're the most sort of
imaginative, innovative consumer tech company out there right now. they're coming up with the ideas that everyone else is copying, and everyone else is copying them for a reason. it's because they're just doing crazy things, things people didn't expect would work online, and i think that's what's interesting about them. i think it's true that it's a problem for them that other companies that have bigger audiences are copying them, and apparently, kind of like stealing their thunder. what's interesting, i think, about snap, though, is that, like, it's just really hard to think of any other company that's coming up with sort of so many new and novel kind of features, products, just ways of doing things online. and if they can continue that, i think, you know, like that could serve them well in the future. i think that's the difference between them and twitter, for example. like, twitter for a long time just languished on the product, and snap hasn't, which i think is, you know, that's why i'm kind of optimistic about them in the long run. >> i'm not so sure, farhad, investors would be happy to buy a company that sets trends that
everybody else can then copy. i thought your piece today was interesting on why this company's calling itself a camera company and what the future of that is. what'd you learn? >> yeah, so, they've been calling themselves a camera company, which is a little bit odd, since they only sell one camera so far, and you know, they're known for an app. but i think what they mean is they are on the forefront of this trend of the whole world moving to visual culture, basically. we're talking through pictures, we're using emoji and, like, animation and videos. and snap is sort of leading that way. and when they say they're a camera company, i think they mean that they're going to lead with visual elements. and you know, a number of other companies are doing that. obviously, youtube is doing that, instagram is doing that. >> right. >> but snap has sort of tapped into it and led with it from the start, and i think that's sort of -- you know, they're part of this larger cultural trend, which i think bodes well for them in the long run. >> what insolates them from competitive copycats, other than
the fact that they're cool? >> i don't know that they need to necessarily be insolated. you don't just use one thing. you use a lot of different things. and i think they'll find their place with their consumers. but what's interesting about them being a camera company is you invite everyone in that way. and i think they've been able to invite advertisers in, users in, in a tactile, immediate way, and in a very, you know, a way that really allows them to prove their worth and their value in someone's life-long term. >> do you think -- we've heard a couple of people this morning use an mtv comparison. do you think there's truth in that? >> well, i don't know if there's a truth in the comparison. i think that snap has the benefit of seeing what everyone else has done before them, and they're smart, so they've seen what twitter's done, they've seen what mtv's done, they've seen what content works, what devices and hardware they need to invest in, and i'm excited about their future as well. >> it is exciting to see what they'll come up with next. christina, thanks for joining us on that. >> thank you. and venture capitalist paypalko founder and trump
supporter peter thiel speaking last night at the sierra week keynote session in washington. his outlook on the economy. >> i think the tide on globalization is just going out. >> really? >> it's going out on all these different dimensions. so, if you have movement of people, i think, and immigration is getting more restrictive, not just in the u.s. but throughout the western world. i think movement of trade, i think that's -- you know, i think there's big headwinds there through goods, movement through people, movement through goods, movement through capital, which is mainly through banks. banks are going to get more regulated. and then even movement through information where i think there may be some headwinds for, you know -- >> even though -- >> designed to survive a nuclear war, but even so, i think there are a lot of regulatory challenges that silicon valley's going to be facing from western europe and elsewhere in the years ahead. so, i think the tide on
globalization is just going out in a pretty big way. >> farhad, that strikes me as kind of a weird argument from an early facebook investor. just in barcelona last week at mobile world congress. reed hastings of netflix was arguing that global niches are what's powering products like netflix. how do you square those two, somebody who's investing in the internet, in global technology, arguing that the tide is going out on globalization? >> yeah, mine, he's a board member of facebook, and facebook is the globalization company. so, it is odd. i mean, mark zuckerberg a couple of -- a month ago, wrote this huge manifesto, sort of arguing that he wants to create this new global social fabric to ease the pains of globalization. and so, it's odd. and the other odd thing about thiel's comments is that he voted -- he was the main supporter in silicon valley for a candidate who in many ways,
like fought globalization on all the dimensions that he's talking about, so -- >> maybe that's less odd because -- tactical. >> it's hard to tell if he's against this or for this. he's sort of smartly bet on, i think, kind of all eyes on this question. so, it's possible that, you know, he'll benefit either way. but it is an odd comment, i agree. >> we also -- aditi roy did a great report about how his company that he backed may have a role in the immigration crackdown from the new administration. what else do you hear about thiel's role at this point within the administration? >> i've heard him described, and it seems like this is true, that he's trump's brain in the valley. i mean, he has become sort of the lead for tech policy questions, and even policy questions that it seems like aren't related exactly to tech but may be in the future, like he's sort of become the point person for what's going to become the future of the fda, for example.
this idea of having looser regulations and having, you know, like a lighter hand of the government on all aspects of the economy, tech and other nontech things, it seems like that is, you know, where thiel is leading. >> right. >> and he definitely seems to have influence there. i mean, his recommendations on a number of regulatory ideas seem to be in favor. >> yes, influence, for sure. farhad manjoo of the "the new york times," thank for joining us. always good to see you. >> thanks. when we come back here on "squawk alley," thousands of women taking off work today to promote equality in the workplace and highlight how valuable women are to the economy. plus, much more from my interview with the ceo from adid adidas. his take on european politics, the u.s. consumer, and what is perhaps the hottest shoe right now on the market. that would be the yeezy. and take a look here at the price of oil at session lows after inventories rose more than expected. wti crude down almost 2%. the dow's down 14%.
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thousands of women across the country joining in solidarity, going on a one-day strike from paid and unpaid work. it's being called a day without a woman. our aditi roy is in san francisco with the latest on that. good morning, aditi! >> reporter: good morning to you, carl. that's right. we're here at san francisco's city hall, where hundreds of women will be gathering here for a rally later on this morning. now, according to the center for american progress, if all paid working fwhen the u.s. took a day off work, the country would lose nearly $21 billion of gdp. here in california alone, the state would lose nearly $2.8 billion. no doubt, much of that money comes from silicon valley, where many companies come out with diversity reports every year. here's a snapshot of how women are doing at three of the big tech companies. overall, women make up 33% of the workforce at facebook, 31% of all google jobs, and 37% of
the jobs at twitter, according to those companies' most recent diversity reports, but those numbers drop when you look at technical jobs within those companies. at facebook, women fill 17% of tech positions, 19% of google's tech jobs, and 15% of those positions at twitter. and taking a look at women in management positions at those companies, facebook reports 27% of senior leadership roles are filled by women, at google, 24% of leadership roles are filled by women, and twitter says 30% of its leadership positions are occupied by women. and how does that compare to fortune 500 companies? a recent study found that only 4.2% of fortune 500 ceos are women, and the fortune knowledge group also found that in 2016, the number of women ceos actually declined at fortune 500 companies. it was 21 last year, and that was down from 24 the year before. sara, back to you. >> still a lot of work to be done.
aditi roy, thank you, in san francisco. shares of adidas are surging this morning. the company issuing a surprisingly upbeat outlook, also raising its 2016 dividend. the stock up more than 9%. i spoke with the company's ceo, kasper rorsted, on everything from european politics to the u.s. consumer to kanye west. listen. >> i think it's many things. it is being retro, you know, in our lifestyle business, but it's also bringing new technology into our shoes. we're bringing sophisticated running technology in. it's getting cool looks through our co-creators with us within our company with kanye west and lee west. so, it's a number of activities that are hitting different market segments at the same time, and also really staying true to the roots of our company. we are a sporting goods company. >> i wanted to ask you about the political environment back in europe, facing an election in germany and of course the big one coming in france.
do you forecast we'll continue to see a wave of populism sweeping what we saw here in the u.s. and what you've started to see in europe? are there going to be regime changes? >> you know, it's clear that the populist paths of the different countries are getting a bigger weight than they've had before, and all indications also gives reason to believe so. europe is in a low-growth environment. you know, the european economy grows are 2% to 2.5%, so slow growth and really never recovered from a growth standpoint since 2008, but despite that fact, we grew 20% last year in europe. so, within our industry, there are still huge opportunities for growth, despite a very, i would say volatile political environment. >> well, it certainly helps to have a weaker euro. do you expect that to continue? >> i think long term, it will not continue. if we look, the euro is still stronger now than when it was introduced initially towards the dollar, so it's right that the dollar strengthened, but that is not going to be, for us, that
has very little indication. we source most of our products into asia and we report the euro, but we don't speculate in currency, and i don't think, you know, consistent weakening of the european currency or the euro will help the european economy. it is going to be reforms. it's going to be labor market liberalization. these are the things, investment in high-tech infrastructure, allowing digital to really make an impact on the overall economy in europe. that will change europe, not the currency rate. >> and finally, how do i get the latest yeezys? they're impossible to get. >> you call me. yeah, no, the good part is the yeezys are extremely hot. and this is the most sought-after shoe brand right now in the entire industry. >> i can vouch for that. very difficult to get a pair of yeezys, but also indicative -- and the reason i brought it up -- of what's working for adidas right now. you heard the ceo, kasper rorsted, guys, talking about how they're hitting the sweet spot on a number of trends when it comes to sneakers in what is a
pretty rough retail environment. we talk about it all the time, for retail earnings, especially over the last holiday season and also for some of its competitors like under armour and nike. both stocks negative over the last 12 months. adidas moonshot, up 80%. >> you mentioned their 4x advantage -- forex advantages, but people liked the comment about the retro chic, the style advantages they've built in over the last few years. >> they have. they nailed it. at first it was this everything is popular in athleisure and that's why nike and under armour were growing so fast, double-digit growth, a standout in the otherwise apparel slump, but that's changed more into a fashion-forward trend. i call it retro chic because that's the stan smiths. it's an old sneaker, but they brought it back. they had this originals line, which continues to be a growth driver for the company, and that really points to the fact that it's on trend. >> very nice. good interview today, sara. >> thank you. let's get to the european close in the uk and across europe. seema's back at hq. seema? >> i like that, retro chic!
let's look at european stocks here, carl, rebounding after four straight days of losses. investors bracing for tomorrow's european central bank policy meeting. the question is, will mario draghi indicate that the central bank is looking to wind down its bond-buying program, given the rise or the rebound, i should say, in european growth? now, the prospect of higher rates not just in europe but in the u.s., that's helping the financials in europe rebound today. the stoxx 600 banke index on pace for its best day since march 1st, a gain. politics, british chancellor phillip hammond unveiling his forecast for the uk, seeing 2% gdp growth in 2017, up from the previous forecast. the budget includes a tax increase on the self-employed and company owner-managers. but keep in mind, his forecast for 2018 and 2019 remains a bit uncertain. now, this morning on "squawk
box," barclays' ceo offered his take on the brexit aftermath and the eu's future. listen in. >> i think a unified european union is important for all of us, and hope that the eurozone and the european union experiment continues to be a success. i think all of us, whether it's here in new york or in london, benefit from political stability. >> and let's take a look at the euro versus the dollar since the brexit. you can see it is down 6%. highly in focus tomorrow again as we wait for mario draghi and those comments. back to you, carl. >> seema, thank you very much. when we come back, walt mossberg takes a shot at what he calls the gang of five in big tech. that would be facebook, apple, amazon, microsoft and google. why he says their time at the top won't last forever.
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good morning, everybody. i'm sue herera. here is your "cnbc news update" at this hour. pimco is replacing the full slate of managers on its total return active exchange traded fund, once the largest managed bond etf. it now has assets of $2 billion, down from $5.2 billion in 2013. managers scott mather, mark kiesel and maher warra are replaced by jared brohm, snyder and dan heiman. on international women's day, u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres calling for the
widespread empowerment of women. >> i've seen women the great victims of poverty, of conflict and violations of human rights in different parts of the world. the protection of women in these circumstances is absolutely essential, but i believe that the only way to make that protection effective is to give full priority to the empowerment of women. >> one wall street firm is also marking international women's day by placing a bronze statue of a young girl facing off the iconic charging wall street bull. state street global advisors is behind that move, part of an effort to get companies to add more women to their boards of directors. that's the "news update" this hour. i'll send it back down to you, carl. state street has three female board members and 23% of that firm's population are females executive vice president. so, there you go. >> we just talked to the ceo a moment ago about that statue. a really good interview.
thank you, sue. >> sure. the new tech oligarchy. walt mossberg recalls a conversation with schmidt, who referenced a gang of four, ruling tech. he revisits this and adds one more name to the gang. executive editor of "the verge," walt, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> it's a really provocative column. you're essentially talking about this oligopoly and what it means for what used to happen in garages in the valley. >> right. so, the point is, we have google, we have apple, we have amazon, we have facebook, and the one that eric schmidt didn't mention back then is microsoft. so, i think there's kind of a gang of five, and they are obviously the big platform companies. i go through in the column and talk about how, basically, we have evolved into a pattern where, sure, there are start-ups
still, as there always have been in silicon valley and in other tech centers, but a lot of them get snapped up every year, as you know, scores of them by each of these big players. many of them, like in the case of apple, they don't even announce most of the ones that are not legalee material. you know, so, they either get snapped up or whatever it is that their product is becomes a feature that is replicated at one of these companies' platforms. and i make the point that i use these companies' products all the time. i like their products. but is it healthy? i wonder if it's healthy for so many years to have such a concentrated group of powerful, powerful companies. >> well, walt, it's jon. i read this column. i love it because it's provocative, but i took the exact opposite tack. it seems to me that this is perhaps the most healthy i've seen the valley in a while. i mean, i remember 15 years ago,
everybody was scared of just microsoft. now you've got five different companies that you can be scared of. you don't have to go to just amazon for cloud services. if you're snap, you can go to google, maybe do a little amazon, if that doesn't work, go to microsoft. you can run your app in apple's app store, or if that doesn't float your boat, go over to google or maybe try the web if none of that works. i mean, isn't that really healthy? >> it's healthier. i couldn't agree more, jon, it's better. and actually, eric schmidt in the quote i used made this point -- it's better than when there was really only one platfor platform, to the point in those days where the government actually sued them for antitrust because they were it, and they were doing some things with that power that the government thought violated antitrust, and as you know, that case was settled. so, it's better, but it's still five companies that are getting -- that in my opinion
have only gotten more powerful since 2011 when eric schmidt made his comments. and i am just raising the idea that concentrating power, even in five companies, while better than one, is still concentrating power. you can't -- i used an example of snap, and i know you guys have talked yourselves out about it, but just think about this one thing. we all know they turned down -- evan spiegel turned down a $3 billion acquisition offer from facebook, which is one of the gang. and he wanted to build his own thing. but he, in their s.e.c. filings, they said we're totally dependent on the google cloud, google being another member of the gang -- >> right. >> and although they didn't say it, we all know they're dependent on apple and google's
app platforms, which involve a tax and which involve rules that can be changed at any time. >> so, walt, i'm trying to just listen to you and piece together some sort of investment implications from what you're talking about. clearly, the gang that you're talking about have been good bets for the markets. >> yeah. >> they like big, dominant companies, also thinking about amazon there. but i wonder if there's a risk that's not being accurately reflected around monopoly and antitrust concerns where eventually there will be an inflection point where regulators -- and we've already started to see this in europe -- are going to start to come after them? >> you know, i didn't get into that. it's an interesting point. clearly, when you have a concentration of power, governments get curious and interested, and it could happen, but i'm not willing to predict it. i just don't know. all i know is each of these companies has its own origin
story. it is kind of romantic. several of them have been made into movies. but the comparable companies today coming up, a lot of them are really just coming up with the hope of being sold to one of these big guys, and that's -- it just a different thing than it was in the legend that we all know about, well, somebody's in a dorm room, somebody's in a garage, and they're going to become steve jobs or they're going to become jeff bezos or they're going to become bill gates, you know. i think it's different, and i think this is a situation that we have to -- it's a lens through which we have to look at tech, particularly consumer tech, more and more as we go forward. >> yeah, that's certainly a language that a lot of tech would-be founders and co-founders can understand. it's a great read, walt. good to see you. thanks for fleshing it out on tv a little bit. walt mossberg joining us from "the verge."
>> i always love to be here. when we come back, why it's back to school for one of harvard's most well-known dropouts. dow's down 17. rick santelli, what are you watching? >> i'm watching price discovery in a pit with people. what's something worth? that's what all these people are trying to figure out. but imagine i'm mario draghi, and all of a sudden, i'm the biggest bid all the time! what's something worth? whatever mario wants to pay. that's what we're going to talk about after the break. ♪
i'm scott wapner. coming up today on "the halftime report" from here at the new york stock exchange, two of the best investors of our time in a disagreement over the market. carl icahn concerned, david tepper says buy. we debate that. plus, tepper talking about several big names today, including apple, snap, allergan and should you buy those stocks? and the reporter behind a nirp and explosive report that's forcing caterpillar shares lower today. "the halftime report" noon eastern. guys, carl, we'll see you in just a few. >> nice to have you in the house, scott. thanks. let's get to rick santelli in the meantime, get "the santelli exchange." rick? >> thanks, carl. you know, let's continue our topic of value. value's one of those intangibles. you know, you go buy something at the store that costs 99 cents, but on the way out, if somebody wants one and offers you $3, it's worth $3. but the next person when he's done using it most likely will have a harder time finding
another person to pay $3 or more. so, what is value? value is what the next person is willing to pay. the problem is, as you take that to the nth degree, now you're talking about bubbles and tulips, because up-to-the-minute ultimately, that dynamic can get out of control. what's worse is when they're not in control, it gets out of control, so hence, we arrive at tomorrow's ecb meeting. mario draghi is going to cut quantitative easing but extent t extend the window. we can debate how much tightening or loosening that is, but initially, the facts are less buying. now, negative interest rates. believe me, in all the months that i've been following this topic, i have yet to bump into somebody who says, hey, santelli, don't you just love those negative interest rates! no. the best i can tell you is i've bumped into people who say things like, i bought them because mario was buying them,
and then i sold them to somebody who was saying mario's going to buy them more, mario's going to buy them again, mario's going to pay and bring down the negative rate on what he's allowed to purchase even more negative. that's the reason you buy it. call it the greater fool's theory, but it isn't really a greater fool's theory. it's only a greater fool's theory when the last buyer standing can't find another person. he is the fool. and we are coming close to that. who in their right mind would want to own those securities? they want to own the good ones! there's a problem there, because the goods securities -- and i put good in air quotes -- as i look at trillions of dollars of "good" securities on the balance sheets of central banks, i wonder if they are as good as they used to be, but that's another discussion for another "santelli exchange," because in the end, if all the good ones are gone, two things happen, okay? if you want to make money, even the good ones can get too expensive, and if you want to
make money buying things that aren't good, we're back to the greater fool's theory. how is all this going to end? look at these charts. this is a chart starting in 2013 of 10s and bunds. and you know i monitor the spread, but this is even more important, because if you look at the southern securities of europe that aren't as good as bunds, what you arrive at is, is that ultimately, the good securities are going to follow. our securities are going to follow bunds and bunds is going to be part of a spread getting rid of the junk. how will all this end? arm in arm! that's why we watch the spread. carl, back to you. >> all right, rick, thank you for that. rick santelli. keeping our eye on this market, getting a little more interesting than the early going. dow's down 23. goldman has lost its gains, but oil is what's getting a lot of people's attention. hit 52 a few moments ago, that's a session low after the inventory data. we'll keep our eye on that. and when we come back, tesla's bet on solar. an exclusive look at the new technology, next.
first, it's not just snap and regulation, apple's david tepper also weighing in on apple and his concerns about that company. >> i think the stock's up since we sold, we trimmed it. i think when we trimmed it, we were probably, like i said, we were a little concerned about what china policy might be in the beginning of the year. because there was a lot of rhetoric and a lot of things that were -- it was the only thing specifically -- it wasn't kept, but wasn't exactly as trump said. so waiting for that shoe to drop with china, which it never did for several years. in all of th, is the stuff that matters? the stakes are so high, your finances, your future. how do you solve this? you don't. you partner with a firm that advises governments and the fortune 500, and, can deliver insight person to person,
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cities la making a big bet on solar energy. our phil lebeau is exclusively in hawaii with a look at the new technology. aloha. >> aloha. as sunrises go, this is interesting. i'm standing in front of nearly 50 acres of solar panels. about 55,000 solar panels. why are we here? because alleges later on today, they will formally announce, though the project is already up and running, that this is where tesla, in conjunction with hawaii's utility company, will have the solar panels working with tesla power packs in order to generation even here for kauai. nearly 55,000 solar panels generating electricity that would be stored by 272 tesla
power packs. those power packs are already discharging electricity to kauai's uat this time company. that's what they need at night. currently or before this project was up and running they were burning diesel generators a the night in order to power much offal aisle, with about 33,000 customers. for tesla, this is part of the whole vision of the tesla gigafactory, which has been expanding battery production. there's some debate about how much growth investors can focus on when it comes to industrial battery production, working with utilities, where do you look at tesla and say look, at the end of the day it's primarily an electric car company. j.d.straubel, he's the manb hind the project. we don't get to hear from him often, but when we do, it's interest. we'll have him at 4:30.
tesla over the last year up 24%. it's pulled back a bit from the all-time high, but this is part of the overall vision. i know we talk will electric cars for good reasons, but it's the overall vision as being sustainable energy company, this is what elon musk is talking about when he sees tesla in the future, working with utilts and energy storage. back to you. did you pitch or newsdesk on going to hawaii, or was this an assignment? [ laughter ] >> they came to me. they said you know what? you look like somebody who needs to go to kauai. >> there are easier place toss shipped this many solar panels. why in hawaii? >> reporter: perfect environment. it's contained, 33,000 customers. it's a good place to go bigger in scale and the idea is
mark zuckerberg to speak a this year's commencement, getting advise from a fellow ceo and former harvard commencement speaker. >> they know we didn't actually graduate, right? >> oh, that is the best part. they actually give you a degree. >> you don't even have to go to class? >> no, no, you put that on your resume and it looks great. >> can you help me figure out what we're going to say? >> yes. we can work on it together. let's get more snacks. >> you get to wear the hat and everything? >> some humor. >> brilliant entrepreneurs, i don't think such great actors, but -- >> very microsoft sales meeting. they have -- >> it's interesting to watch zuckerberg, you know, read into his behavior. we talked about that long manifesto about the future of the internet. there was actual speculation of what business leader will get
into politics and just watches his activity and, that go broader than just ceo of facebook. >> these are often trophies about globalization and the future, but he says this time will probably stand in the international contrast. >> and. watch oil and watch the ten-year up for eight strike days. let's get up to post 9. welcome to the "halftime report." i'm tom wapner. stocks rallying to record highs since election day, but have they gone too far? some starting to think so, but not one of the greatest investors of any era, who says the trump rally is not even over. with us stevenwise, it will livan than, josh brown, jon najarian. carl icahn telling cnn last night the market has run ahead of