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tv   Inside Story 2020 Ep 187  Al Jazeera  July 6, 2020 2:32pm-3:01pm +03

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is accused of driving his motorcycle into police officers during a protest last wednesday iran's atomic energy organization is acknowledged that last week's fart a major nuclear facility cause significant damage this could slow production of advanced centrifuges which are used to enrich uranium. at the oscar winning italian film and your morricone has died at the age of $91.00 a more county roots music for more than $500.00 films but he was famous for the haunting and original schools that were featured in speak 18 western classics the melodies in a fistful of dollars in the good the bad and the ugly are among his best work. all right you have to stay with all the headlines here on al-jazeera got more news coming up right after inside story after.
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another setback for the iran nuclear deal to her own triggers a disputes mechanism saying european powers all doing their part to keep the agreement alive and with the us determined to isolate iran is the deal worth saving this isn't sad story. hello welcome to the program on iran kong iran is expressing frustration with the efforts to save the 2015 u.k. deal it's triggered a mechanism to resolve issues with britain france and germany the iranian foreign minister sent a letter to european leaders on friday accusing them of not living up to their side
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of the agreement. says tehran is now triggered the dispute mechanism of the agreement 6 times the europeans russia and china have been trying to salvage the deal after the u.s. pulled out zarif says washington's maximum pressure campaign against iran has lost international support. u.s. actions at the economic measures of a bully in a better word these actions economic terrorism don't think of america as a superpower the nuclear deal was imposed on the us god willing history and the future will show that the deal is of documents of on a whole iran and it will be in future as well. meanwhile iran is threatening retaliation after a fire at its natanz nuclear site last thursday it's not clear what caused it but officials suspect a possible cyber attack the dispute between iran and newer pain signatories to the
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deal began after president donald trump abandoned the agreement in 2018 and we impose sanctions on iran to her on accuse the other parties of failing to save the pact and began rolling back its commitments in july last year after a few months later germany france and the u.k. established a barter system known as instincts to keep trading with iran and bypass u.s. sanctions but tehran says the process failed to protect its economy and threaten to scrap limits on enriching uranium in january the 3 european powers then triggered the dispute resolution mechanism to initiate discussions but they later suspended it. let's bring in our guests in tehran of our so slowly political writer and senior research fellow at the center for middle east and strategic studies in berlin going to more like a former german diplomat and director of the german institute for oriental studies
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in washington d.c. thomas countryman a senior u.s. diplomat and former assistant secretary of state international security and nonproliferation a warm welcome to you all i'd like to start in tehran with a slowly this in agreement that now has had its dispute mechanism triggered 6 times is a green meant that was made in 2015 the iranians and the international community apart from the u.s. have suggested that iran is actually stuck to the letter of the agreement the spirit of the agreement the u.s. says no clearly the u.s. is one of the big signatories to the deal and holds a lot of the cards is it time to rip up this deal and start again negotiate a new deal because the americans just aren't playing ball. well i think that the now many parties to the nuclear deal they are now seem odd because we are nearing the presidential election in the united states that the current you know in its
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that this current status it's not much beneficial to iran and iran is not pleased but the other hand also europeans are not happy with iran to do so and it's a comment meant under the nuclear deal what they are doing now is to wait for the presidential election in the united states they are hoping to see a different administration or policy in the united states in the months to come and that's why they are trying to somehow let's say through the situation in the main that they find a very out. but that they they have because the name. lotion have been. taking place for years you know to clinch the 2015 nuclear deal and the western countries europeans and even the united states saw that as a ground for further compromise from iranian side on other issues including the
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regional issues and that will be i think very difficult to. find an opportunity for a new negotiations in future if the this deal collapses and dies and i think that the j c p a a minute in a clear deal is in limbo or in call mark and the status quo cannot continue for longer for a good weekend it can survive for a limited time and it's important that the different parties to the l. try to save it by the practical commitments they can fulfill in future and it cannot continue as this very let's bring in thomas countryman in washington d.c. how the iranians read this administration wrong since it came into power there is a theory that suggests that the j c p o a the joint comprehensive plan of action should actually be ringing renegotiated and as long as it's called the t.c.p. of the trump comprehensive plan of action then trump would be all for it is that
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something that you've heard in washington circles. i haven't heard it exactly in those terms then no i i would not agree that the iranian government is misreading the trump government deep seated hostility towards iran is heater of the trumpet administration it is the primary foreign enemy that he has tried to concoct and inflate as a threat to the united states so i don't see that there is a realistic prospect of negotiating an agreement between iran and the iranian cup but between iran and the trump white house and for that reason i agree with what was just said i think the smartest thing that both iran and the other parties to the agreement can do is to show some strategic patience 4 months from now we may
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have a different american president and candidate biden has already said he intends to return to the deal and seek to improve it that would be a negotiating partner with which iran and the other parties could make some progress but the important thing is to show that patients the trumpet ministration will do everything it can to provoke iran into leaving that deal before november and the most effective response from iran and others is not to be provoked but to show the kind of determination and persistence that allows a beneficial deal to serve by even in its weakened state but tell me if there is a deal it was looking it was a good deal that both sides agreed to iran actually didn't do anything to come out of the deal even the european union and suggest that the iranians stuck to the pub
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the deal why should they trust the americans even if there was a change for them in iraq. i don't think there is a good reason to trust the trumpet ministration are i think that it is a parallel situation to what the united states faces that there was no possibility of sincere negotiation from the iranian side under president ahmadinejad but president rouhani with a different approach had a diplomatic triumph all 'd 7 countries benefited in terms of their national security in terms of their economy and in terms of their international prestige when they reached the j c.p.o. way agreement that all of those benefits economic political diplomatic are still there to be had with a different u.s. administration well that's bringing. in berlin you're
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a seasoned diplomat. is there a sense of frustration at the trumpet ministrations handling of the iranian issue within germany but particularly within the european union. yes of course there is and we had yesterday the declaration of the high representative of the rippin union were rel regarding the way and he made it very clear that the european signatories will do their utmost to be committed to a and to uphold it because as it was said ready before we need to wait we can't now leave it and it would be a pity if iran now would take the opportunity to leave it because there are certain things we are not happy about certain. difficulties for the inspectors to visit certain sites in iran and since
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a year as we all know iran has doubled its. different possibilities here to enrich iran to have more heavy water in stuart and other things but i think we can still talk about that and we should overcome this period of difficulties waiting at least until the elections in the united states in november hoping that with a different president in charice we can say we will have a much better playing ground then to speak seriously also about further. american engagement in the way or whatever new negotiations might take place then but at the moment it's very critical and therefore we should have patience and tried to do the best of us aslan into her on our guests in washington d.c.
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and in berlin suggesting that iran or counseling in fact that iran shows patient it waits and see what happens in the vomit something you yourself have actually said but there are there is a hard line elements within iran that is absolutely not willing to go along with that deal it says we need to stop trusting the americans and we need to go away and those voices are getting louder and they're putting zarif and rouhani under a tremendous amount of pressure. well the point that i said about the wait and see mode doesn't mean that we've been moving towards that direction easily because what you're seeing today in ron shows that the level of distrust toward the united states has increased to a great extent you're saying that the cost of any let's say a announcement on the possible or likely engagement with the united states especially thickly after the assassination of ukraine and commander of us and
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soleimani has increased to a great extent as well so in the run up to the presidential election in iran also we can see that competition between iran and let's say conservatives as well as the reformists or the moderates so this will somehow complicate the situation and i think on the american side that things will not be moving that easily as well so these are the dynamics which are dynamics which need to be taken into account and this makes it leslie somehow a lot of. their friends to think that these things will happen and the argument among the conservatives in tehran is that you cannot trust the united states because indeed to thousands in the tri state case of this century you engage with the europeans but the americans toss them then later you engage with
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the americans directly and then what happened they've been through from the nuclear deal they really impose sanctions and they assassinated your commander and your official they also did security measures against you so you cannot trust the united states and i think the distance between the american presidential election to iran and presidential election that time will be very telling and very important and we have to see and watch to see that. what will happen in that period of time because there can be computed between conservatives that reformists in the country and let's say that this survival of the nuclear deal cannot be that easy it's almost as interesting isn't it and there you are in washington d.c. listening to the argument in iran between the conservatives the moderates the hardliners except for and in america you have the very same voices you go full republicans were very well case towards iran trying to get all of these voices
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together trying to get all of these and trying to get an agreement together is going to be incredibly difficult but you seem to be optimistic than you seem to think that 4 months time might change things i am very much excuse me i'm very much struck by the parallels certain political situations in the united states and iran in both countries who have hardliners who make and then article of their ideology to say we cannot trust the other side and do everything they can to demonize the other side now politics does not take a holiday for anybody who's not in the u.s. and not in iran and so your os line is absolutely correct that the it will be very difficult having 2 presidential elections within a few months of each other to navigate that difficult political environment and
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yet i do think that there is a significant possibility of getting back to the agreement alternately improving upon the agreement but it depends upon whether the people in the 2 countries are prepared to reject the extremist hardliners and are prepared to prevent them from killing the deal for final in the next few months. in berlin it's interesting let's just talk about the. deal itself the mechanism for dispute has now been triggered 6 times is that a fault with the mechanism that was an it's been triggered that many times or is it just simply entrenched positions between the 2 countries between america and iran in this case. well i think his here is the entrenched position and of
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course it shows that we are not 100 percent happy how things are developing and but on the other hand side the confirmation by the high representative yesterday before yesterday and yesterday by the german foreign office that we will do everything to maintain the c.p.o. way and the dialogue which we have initiated in order to overcome these misunderstandings or also. the way how iran is acting and overacting sometimes and not fulfilling now 100 percent of the set limits which she should be or a has given and that is something which causes some headaches for us but of course we know it's important it's very important to our po'd this especially in the world of crisis we don't want a new crisis to develop neither in in the gulf nor in iran or other countries and
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we are all threatened by 19 by the pandemics and i think it's better that we do everything to help also iran to overcome this medical crisis and not now. you know allow iran. in the struggle between both sides the moderates and the heart sides the hardliners to get out i mean that would not be in the interest of iran quite frankly because they are not so many links which exist between iran and the european union we as germans have now the presidency of the opinion even the presidency of this a curate a council of the united nations so it is really our firm believe that we should do whatever is possible to maintain this and to talk about difficulties and find find some solutions to these difficulties to be overcome. oh you will come back here in
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just a 2nd won't the reaction here from. zarif particularly has been very critical of the european union's of the europeans generally for not stepping up and not doing more to save the 2015 nuclear deal the j c p a you heard our guest in berlin say well actually we are trying to save this deal do you think that iran tehran believes that. well you read them foreign minister today in parliament he was grilled by the member of parliament because the the policy of the administration to court this name and it means that the elites in the country are not happy with what the europeans have done on the europeans you know after 8 or 9 months they. came to the shingles and very idea the. stakes was a macand is them you know to come to and say through withdrawal of the united states but so far we have not seen
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a major transaction but by mechanics them and after diverse throw all of the united states americans re-impose sanctions against iran so iran saw that it cannot benefit the economic dividends of the d.l. and on the other hand they wasted time and they both times the europeans i mean you know to keep iran in the dia but in action they did nothing but what was happening was that the economic relations of the european countries with the run on was decreasing by say and this caused on after one year of patients to decide to reduce its commitments are needed in the clia deal and according to paragraph 36 of this same deal. tehran thought and belief that there was no balance after the u.s. withdrawal enix that and that's why they tried to balance the d.l. by making some reductions in the coming months and but they have kept the
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inspections i can say that more than 20 percent of all inspections of the i.a.e.a. divorce since the run and it's interesting the more than 90 percent of those inspections devoted to countries member of additional protocol again is devoted to evolve yet again so you run 10000 and its cooperation with the i.a.e.a. . but believes that there was no balance and they try to bring back the balance but i think this balance is somehow can be seen in a short period of time and it can not last for long and there needs to be some solutions to this problem. and we all running out of time there are there's another key question i want to come to all 3 of you with there are ghosts in the machine here though it's not just the european union it's not just the u.s. it's also russia and china is iran increasingly looking toward russia and china to
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be able to salvage the deal just very quickly can you turn can you tell us if that's the case. well iran has tried to get china and russia in the framework of the. bilateral relations with those countries that it is hoping that it can compensate that shortage or lack of those bilateral relations with those countries and the russians are countries like russia they have also expressed red and that's that if mechanisms like in stakes by europeans they become practical and they lead and cheese they already thought also use that for trade with the rant but in action i would say that the most of the blame has been pulled toward the europeans because on the other side and emeritus withdrew from the. russians and chinese i think there are a fair some who are to blame the united states and in reaction in the beginning that was also did think that the europeans very doing but the europeans are now using these new arrests and pressure in order to about sorry to cut you off earlier
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and we are running out of time and i do want to get reaction from the other guests as well thomas country down in washington d.c. nature of horrors a vacuum the americans have left a vacuum and is now russia and china that could well be the key players here reducing further the u.s. role is that concern. well it should be a concern for russia and china cannot by themselves say the j. c.p.o. way and for both russia and china the j.c. feel way is not a central issue in their very difficult relationships with washington i agree with that the european union is key the european union has tried to keep this deal alive i don't think that they've done as much as they can but i hope that they pursue for the next several months this approach of strategic patience
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that will at least keep the j. c. p. away on life support. in then do you think are you worried about the u.s. on a about the russia china role. not so much i mean ok china can do something in the economy buying oil from. iran and selling things russia head has its own problems economic problems we yes we could do maybe more but we tried but you know you have to understand in our system also our big companies are so much afraid of the u.s. sanctions against them when they continue to do business with iran that we only have a few small companies and others which have exported things like medical stuff and others to to juran but it's not the same it used to be but again it's it is the hammer of the american sanctions which our companies are more afraid of they're now
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anything else so even if the governments will encourage them to continue under the new system to do a certain limited business but we have indeed we have to wait we have to be patient for the next what is 4 or 5 months to see whether we have then a better deal on the american side with the new president where we could then continue to to revive the discussions on the way so all eyes are on november a fascinating discussion i want to thank all our guests about going to malacca and thomas countryman and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a.j. inside story for me in manhattan and the entire team here in doha and.
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hong counting the cost of pandemic decimates jobs pushing many experts stream told us he could have green recovery save the global economy set a goal flagpole has been try these crews accused of overfishing just meat processing crops may cause for the next pandemic trials of a cost on al-jazeera examining the impact of today's headlines i need to go to work because i need to make money risking our lives by going in setting the agenda
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for tomorrow's discussions racially charged social unrest on a scale not seen in decades international filmmakers who move cost journalists bring closure grounds to inform and inspire the carriages but you're here the story your city walk the path on al-jazeera. a global pandemic mass protests demanding change economic recession and geopolitical tensions not to mention the small matter of a looming election join me steve clemons in conversation with leading voices on the bottom line your weekly take on u.s. politics and society on al-jazeera.
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the. how again i'm in doha with the headlines here on al-jazeera india has overtaken russia to become the 3rd one instead country from the coroner virus pandemic and reporting the late 25000 new cases every day with nearly 700000 factions now confirmed nationwide elizabeth prana is in the capital new delhi she says the country is ramping up its efforts against the coronavirus the indian government says that it has is continuing to expand testing in fact it says that it's now tested 10000000 people at its testing 300000 people.

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