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tv   The Stream 2020 Ep 84  Al Jazeera  May 28, 2020 10:32pm-11:02pm +03

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after twitter labeled 2 of his tweets misleading for the 1st time tom says the company was stifling free speech and threatened to shut twitter and other social media outlets down brazil's president has accused his political opponents of seeking to oust him after his allies were targeted as part of an investigation into the spread of fake news on wednesday the supreme court approved police raids on the homes of business leaders bloggers and politicians accused of spreading lies. a shanty town of 4000 people near argentina's capital has been placed under lockdown for the next 2 weeks nearly 200 coronavirus infections were confirmed there the slum has been sealed off and many people may not leave without police permission those are the headlines and stay with us the stream is coming up next and i'll have more news for you in half an hour see you then of i.
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hi anthony ok welcome to the stream i want to see some pictures from the streets of hong kong on wednesday hong kong time why police are in the streets they are facing civilians and protesters in won't guns pepper spray penates now this protest may be a very rare thing in the future because there is a national security bill that he's trying to be pushed through and it will also relate to home call as well as mainland china and that is what we're talking about the possible impact of his national security bail on hong kong as if you have
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a perspective a point of view in your own jumping to the chat and you too can be in the street. that means she she to the guests to the guests can introduce themselves to you hello wilson welcome to the string tell everybody who you are. my name is also i'm a barrister based here in hong kong and i'm a member of the progressive lawyers group good to have you i know welcome to the stream tell everybody you are well i'm a bit of a mixture of many things i was a lawyer i was a politician and i was the and testament banker and now i'm in media so i've done all the bad things but i was also a member of the american civil liberties union and numerous other charitable groups which dealt with issues involving i immigrants. looking forward to having you in today's discussion and hello is that that. i am isabella stater i'm an editor with
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quartz news here in hong kong is a bear and i cover the whole region but specifically hong kong for the time being i look. isabella and wilson are both based in hong kong i know is in beijing wilson out on the streets out and about today through the weekend up to me what is it been like what's been happening on the streets. but we've missed seeing a lot of protests out on the streets and a lot of these are just ordinary people so 'd we've seen a lot of school children out we've seen a lot of elderly people we've seen in the above professionals out on the street and that's been met by a pretty harsh. police response so just today we have over 650 arrests we saw schoolchildren being rounded up into police vans or elderly people being pepper sprayed 'd and similar thing happened over the weekend where there was about 250
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arrests so there's been an attempt to protest 'd people phone call but that's not crackdown quite harshly by fully cute right police was in there was wilson the event was very this is a very choreographed event what you have here are the school children elderly and you know this the protests are not something that happens generically i mean they've also picked up people who've had bombs and centering things quitman to things like this so this is not something where you know a bunch of people now the numbers are way down but it's been quite clear that this has been stage managed so that you know the you know quite prominently the schoolchildren are being hustled off into buses not handcuffed but just escorted on but why were they there in the 1st place you know if we're somewhere else and somebody was using child soldiers people would be outraged and i think people should be questioning exactly what kind of movement does this kind of thing using
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these kids as puns. wilson the executive is the point because what is the one of the images and he said you. miss the stream i want is a shot is and is a tweet not in public and he says the threat to national security das primary school children go have a listen. well i think i know gives very well the view from beijing and the view there is basically a vast conspiracy theory where any sort of protest dissent is always because of mysterious foreign forces you know there's some black hands behind your maybe the cia maybe george soros maybe n.t.i. it's always these mysterious foreign 'd forces which are behind it but the truth is you know i've been there i've been protests i've been in many of these protests you know i think covering these protests i have friends who've been helping out as
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lawyers in these protests and the reality is almost overwhelmingly these are peaceful protests ordinary people 'd that come out you know there's people who organized this of course but it's not some mysterious black cat you know so this pro-democracy titian's here of course this politicians and you know trees toward nice but there's no evidence whatsoever that it's a mysterious plot as you know beijing's propaganda line which is to suggest gentlemen let me just bring in well you might very well limit that that's the time ratio there of just just give me just a tiny little pause i can bring as many inches about image an international perspective people watching these protests spring up again in hong kong how do you explain what is happening. well there was a lull because of the current a virus side say that if there wasn't a pandemic possibly the protests that have happened since jan last year would have been contained as whole time so many people thought that there was you know they
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were over the people had you know sort of had agreements as address but actually that wasn't the case so what's really happening now is sort of a restart of those process that stalled around jackanory when the pandemic sausage hits and hong kong and now they're coming back to life again. i'm going to show this to to use it and open a skis and i want to show this to you wilson which is feed become a breaking thread this is official document of the hong kong national security people and resolution these are some of the things that could be expected behavior per hipaa taishan of succession something state power terrorism and phone interference. that he can see. wilson festival why would this be necessary for hong kong. is completely not necessary i think that's the point so what we have here is a decision by big chain to introduce these very vague concepts of you know
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criticism or foreign interference from the mainland china where they're being used to suppress dissidents suppress activists and then import them across the border into our car and that's that you know that's the danger of this you know this decision by beijing and what's more were in is is that it's the fact that they are proposing to actually place mainland security agents in ha go to enforce these laws so after the laws are effectively there be no difference between your sofa the border north of the border would just become another city in china and that we no reason for any international businesses n.g.o.s 'd or media organizations to base themselves in. well in oh this is interesting you know wilson you always interject you 1st you said that i was. taking mr there's mysterious forces i don't think so i think it's a pro-democracy groups within hong kong or the mainstays if they're receiving money
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from foreign groups i don't have any evidence of that not saying that but you know what if you start looking at the tactics you know people showing up magically in different areas of the city obviously it is very very well choreographed and i don't think you can deny that you know even when you started mentioning the number of people who have been arrested the official police tally is 300 say 615 i don't know where that number comes from it's kind of like the days when people are saying there are 2000000 people on the street but mathematically it was impossible to hit that number of people in that physical area so you know the least throwing these things out there and saying that somehow it's there's no precedent for instance that there should be a national security law well if you're a barrister you know better you know are you know that an exterior required that hong kong assembly to pass a national security law that was never passed and now you have hong kong
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a city great city wonderful people has built an incredible reputation for international trade but trade based mostly coming in and out of china and it is declining every day that the protesters out there maybe a lot of the foreigners who say that they they you know they support what you're saying they're also taking their kids and their nannies and moving to singapore they're moving their money outside so this idea that you know nothing is happening everything is normal you know having these protests is good when the city of hong kong is is in dire straits something needs to happen unless there is order all you have is a mob in the streets doing unspeakable things attacking people all right bashing shall most people i don't mind is not i'm not saying i know he i hear your perspective is about i mean a sentence on x. 3. i think what i was right on call was supposed to have
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a constitutional obligation to enact what is called article 23 which has its own local legislator national security law but that's not what is happening here in a sense beijing's ran out of patience why has a sledge the chair not been able to pass this law for so long and it's just basically taken into its own hands which is goes back to what well so i say which is worrying because it's bypassing the autonomy that the cities have so let me just bring in here just show one who has been a guest in the stream before people in hong kong know him as a pro democracy campaigner he is very fee for what may be happening to hong kong as have this. hong kong or will be arrested by secret police face or trial and prosecution in mainland china is that of hong kong a lot of imprisoned in beijing or shanghai is that of hong kong s.k. are best on my merit there we are close and we call upon the international community to oppose the national secretely law with the energies of version
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regulation step even you call upon the city's leader to step down or just ask for free election will be recognized and has a version by active of beijing of crackdown on the holocaust protest movement is about a living hong kong to you have concerns about what may happen if this national security bill turns into a national security in your. yeah as a journalist and as someone who talks to. activists or just not even people who really do anything that sensitive i mean the issue being that you don't really know what could be sensitive in the way that people in china often just disappear or get agents visiting them at their homes or in the case of many journalists have not had the abuses or in you know just kicked out outright transgressions that they may not even realize that they had been conducting it's the vagaries of this law that really worry me as somebody who works in this profession and many other people who are not particularly political but also they don't know when they might say or do
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something that may have crossed the line that to me is the biggest worry. and let me just put this to you i know this is from the cool of enoch who is the new chief right now watching this discussion and and a coup is questioning if this is a diversion tactic by china to take its attention off the corona pandemic being investigated by other countries why isn't that a national security nor now. what's your thoughts about that well you know that is that's an excellent yes that's an excellent question i mean the timing comes into it because timing is always political and i think at this point to china feels that it's under attack on many different fronts whether it's general john kong kong taiwan the tibet south china seas they see people who are perceived not even if they actually are chinese being attacked in the cities around the world in countries that used to be friendly where there were no such attacks or very few of
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them and there's this kind of feeling that the people don't like us we have to watch out for ourselves and this is kind of what i hear from a lot of people here in beijing they just don't understand why everybody is acting this way and you know going back to what isabella said they feel that their own very strong legal grounds now remember. you know hong kong was how. and it over to china it was not handed over to hong kong hong kong is not a separate country there's a transition period remember everything here started with one event and that is the british coming in and seizing by force military force hong kong and then using a succession of kind of gun to the ear. proposed and up i mean agreements that were forced onto the chinese government to give 99 year leases so at the end of this period and it was all about the right to sell opium to the chinese because the
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british wanted t.v. and they couldn't pay for it and silver it wasn't enough so they came up with this idea that it would be better if there was some bilateral trade what they came up with was opium and they could grow it in other places and ship it to hong kong and earn money on well as i think his let's keep us up to date with what's happening nationally bringing it in this summer china is only going to no i mean you're you can't just you can't just say oh you know terrible things are happening now you have to know that if you if you don't know it's handed back to china after being forcibly taken you could see this as somehow this is a country that country out that is under attack by not going in and yeah i really authentic a sea of colonialism let me let me say this if in the south china morning post thailand is the chief executive of hong kong under the spotlight once again and this is what she sings here most and we are very free society so for the time being people have the freedom to say whenever they want to send me as interesting for the
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time being what he think of her i think under national security. she seems to be in agreement with it. but a cynic wish it would of course we haven't see any opposition from the government and i think that's exactly the problem you know that 'd the of their supposed tanami between hong kong and china you know that was what set out in the british 'd you know chinese joint declaration but what we're seeing now is a hong kong government which essentially just runs to the to another whatever beijing does and it's also interesting in when she answered she said for the time being and in fact when journalists questioned her further what acts pacifically would be because they're not you know for example 'd the annual 'd tenement
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massacre vigil appears to allow or just completely unable to answer and that's because even she doesn't know what's going to be in the draft law which is all being drafted up you know in a closed room in beijing. i would have been here yes she won she said china research of the human rights watch and she is thinking the worst of the situation of the hong kong has right now this is what she told the stream annia. a new national security law do you know deadly blow to the right people in hong kong in the past several days setting talking to activists and human rights lawyers in hong kong there are asking me whether they should believe the city they love still much because free thing you're not the crew to be prosecuted and go to jail for speaking critically the hong kong government for speaking critically of the chinese communist party and from going to the street to protest is about what do you him
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from protesters that you're speaking to. i got she younger one i think being arrested is almost sort of course i mean as. a 1000 more than actually were arrested so the chances of being arrested for just like standing around a protest is pretty high and the young people sort of like now i will never be able to come out again maybe some of the older people are a bit more for coming out you know that don't want to be arrested but the best they're doing what they might donate money to the. people who are stupid or. to do something needed. i think people feel pretty helpless because you know the fight is now with beijing and the hong kong government as wilson said it's pretty worrying it seems like the hong kong government the city in which this act is being implemented still doesn't know what's going to be in it so it just seems like something that's being you know for the people of hong kong with. really from
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people here see i know you sitting in beijing and wilson is in hong kong do you detect a difference of opinion coming through beijing compared to the people who are living in hong kong. oh absolutely i mean they don't understand it hong kong doesn't for instance it doesn't pay taxes to the mainland and fact it's the other way around money goes to hong kong not $1.00 penny of tax from hong kong goes and into the city and they've been able to maintain a very very generous tax. you know great in hong kong which is attracted a lot of people but you know this idea that somehow people are being rounded up on the streets at random yeah i think that you know both both isabelle and wilson want it better that not true you have to be caring about people not knowing where things are happening and beings like that so much obviously that if you're sound you're
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with a character and. not show up in greece and i have 'd quite a fun friends who live in hong kong and they eat chips actually took went down and took pictures of them and we were discussing it today the schoolchildren i said well it looks like a pretty much this is going to be the headline the propaganda maker for the day and he said i said aren't you concerned about being arrested he said no not at all and i mean this is what i don't understand there's this kind of both isabel mustn't you have to admit after a year of these protests the economy going down tourism leaving people losing their jobs where is hong kong's future it's fine for you know your friends who are lawyers and they have money those 2000000 they can leave but out to 7w5w have nowhere to go and if they have you know your jobs and there's no going or what is going to happen to them is there it is just you just i mean ignore that and
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say this is some sort of accidentally or not any i'm wondering if it's a felony do you have to admit that or have. well i think that once again we need a political solution here and that forcing something is not it's not a going to end the protests and it be it's not really going to make all these people who are you know upset at the local government and they don't really want to have you know the chinese communist party implementing roll directly from beijing over the. you know many many people since last year have shown that actually a majority of people support the protests in some way that conducted by universities professional polling organizations you can debate the veracity of them with the bias of but you know many people you know 5060 percent whatever figure are not happy something has to be done about them not being happy and i think ramming a lot of people's hearts and fix the problem is just a band-aid. i want to put together what do you what do you propose. i mean i'd like to hear. it i don't like this what would you propose doing while
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a normal functioning new legislature with you know multiple parties would have people assigned all to you or the. you just pointed out that it's not normally functioning it was required in 1907 to pass the security law it also under an extremely has to obey the laws of china has respect in the flag none of that is happening so if it is about the rule of law all right and you're proposing that quote things being normal then in that case you have to insist on both sides of equation you can say the rule of law is only for completing it to me when i want something as opposed to what things that i'm required to do for instance attacking both neither one of you supporting the use of beilenson against people you know box cutters and being used to attack policeman in cinderella vices that bloody stand off. in your system the good stuff part of democracy all part of normal out of the
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work i think ringback game i think listen to what i think what yeah i think one thing that i know keeps forgetting to mention is that in the basic law in the deal that was reached between the article people and china it was a guarantee that it was not readers of your clients the hong kong people that is famous it was the idea that completely incorrect there was no signature by the hong kong people it was a hand on me i never could finish or not and the argument. interrupts i mean it's not very helpful than teams and. you know we shouldn't get equal time. in the constitution which was actually drafted by beijing itself the basic law there's a guarantee that the end goal would be government by universal suffrage now the problem that has happened in the past 27 years is that there's been no moves no real moves towards this universal suffrage and that's caused the problem because
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you have this government that carrier and government which is essentially hand-picked by beijing it has no representative legitimacy its popularity hovers around 'd 20 percent so whatever it does is not a member sent to the hall there was i don't want to mention wilson you're already said i haven't will just take the science where it's you know issues that are not going to be you know and i'm curious because article $45.00 of the display of clearly any specific directive amnesty international guest said just because what was the end of the shah singh sneakers is the asia pacific directive amnesty international wilson n n it is about a ritual king and multiple king about i don't die a consequences for hong kong nicholas doesn't think include the same way as have a listen right he needs 2002 said it's the end of hong kong. i'm home is a lot of resilience i love a way to if not stop at least slow down the translation of this
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mainland of the dream concept into a legal system that is fundamentally a rule of law system designed to protect the basic right thing creating human rights. was a right at the end of the show so i just want to give you the final word if i may and it will be a sentence this national security in your bill excuse me will it become annoying your opinion. it will unless there is sufficient international pressure to tell beijing that this is a terror what a terrible idea. and as an international financial center wilson i know isabella thank you very much for talking to us about the national security bill the protests in hong kong by now the time is never enough times to pass subjects in the stream so we also have any extra be on the instagram likes some day 3 to
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wednesday at $1630.00 g.m.t. always invited and so watching everybody. business leaders just want to buy no prospal.
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business leaders just want to buy no prospal. provide the soundtrack for a. composer over $350.00 movie music for entertainment escape conflict. compose a. man. on al-jazeera
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. the hero. hello i'm barbara starr in london these are the top stories on al-jazeera the anger in minneapolis over the death of a black man in police custody is spreading across the united states with national protests planned for saturday civil rights leader all sharpton said the violence being experienced in the city the not begin with protests but rather when george floyd was choked to death of begging for his life the u.s. department of justice says its investigation into floyd's this is a top priority the man's for justice for floyd have led to 2 nights of violent
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protest in minneapolis riot police fired tear gas and rubber bullets thousands of people as multiple fires broke out across the city and shops were looted 46 year old floyd was filmed gasping for breath during his arrest or an officer kneeled on his neck for several minutes he died in hospital shortly after the officer and 3 others have been fired but many have called for criminal charges. and i got here someone said to me are you going to address the violence the violence on the dressin is how a man could hold a man down with me the news men come for 9 minutes that's when revival and stunt on. the pilot started on this car when this man was choked and can't begging for his life. so we must act in a way to get justice and to get fairness we're not asking for fame oh.

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