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tv   Inside Story 2018 Ep 149  Al Jazeera  May 30, 2018 2:32pm-3:01pm +03

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if a russian journalist living in kiev. was shot and killed in his apartment in the ukrainian capital ukraine's prime minister has blamed russia for the shooting police in kiev say the forty one year old dissident could have been targeted because of his job. workers in greece have walked out of their jobs in protest against extending austerity measures as part of the bailout agreement with foreign lenders labor unions have called for a twenty four hour general strike it will disrupt flights public transport and close schools as well hospitals will only emergency stuff. those are the headlines on al-jazeera inside story is coming up next statement.
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libya's rival leaders agreed to hold elections in december the decision came at a conference in paris organized by the french president so with this and libya's years long crisis and what does friends have to offer this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. it was a meeting held in paris in the hopes of a breakthrough for the political crisis in libya and late on tuesday french president announced that rival libyan leader had agreed to hold elections in december libya has seen years of violence and instability to rival governments
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compete for influence and power present called tuesday's agreement and essential step towards reconciliation calling the conference historic it was attended by several figures including prime minister phases of the united nations backed government in tripoli and renegade general. backs the tobruk based administration here's some of what the french president had to say. sit upon your for is the first time that in this format all of the leaders some don't acknowledge each other mutually have met and agreed to work together and together approved a joint declaration it is a new if i can step it's an important one and which makes it possible what is about to come because. i ask everybody to stop fighting in libya to put an end to the bloodshed we want to call on everybody to stop the military escalation in burner
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and we hope to be able to reach a solution that will allow us to open our collie doors and secure them for people safety we reaffirmed our opposition to terrorism if the foreign interference continues in our country this will never be a success we need to have unity between the countries in the region and libya will take strong measures against those who interfere with the democratic process libya's rival factions signed a united nations bacteria to form a unity government into thousand and fifteen after months of talks in morocco and a nine member presidential council forms a government that is based house of representatives becomes the mainly just letter and the state council asked as a second consultative chamber a few months later than your government of national accord led by prime minister phases took office in tripoli but it was opposed by a renegade general here if i have to who is backed by the administration in the end year round of talks headed by the united nations ovoid us stand selami began in
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tennessee last september where the rival groups failed to reach a consensus the un says broke agreement is the only sustainable framework for a solution and has called for elections this year. let's bring in our guests in tripoli. because he is a political analyst and senior advisor to the negotiating team of the high council of state joining us on skype from. in poland russia chief foreign correspondent fall of figaro daily newspaper and the cambridge rian and smith managing director of libya analysis welcome to your son how would like to start by asking you this question this is not the first time that the international community is trying to stitch together an agreement for libya why is the paris conference different this time. it's really not
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different and it's not the third time that the international community tries to forge an agreement there was a serious attempt at forging an agreement in spirit as your report mentioned and it came out with the libyan political agreement which produced the current government of national accord what's happening in paris now this is the second round that mccrone tries his hand at this he failed miserably in his first attempt when he coupled saraj and after iran claimed on the twenty fifth of july of last year that this is a great step towards peace in libya and we know what happened now this is a second attempt is probably better than the first one but it does not produce an agreement it's not a was not an attempt at producing an agreement and he admitted himself in the post conference press briefing that nobody signed anything it was
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a declaration and we hope that everybody will commit to what. has told the security council in his briefing two weeks ago that we are heading towards elections. where no so the parties have agreed now to. form. to have elections presidential and just lots of elections in december do you think that this is something that could potentially pave the way for stability and reconciliation in libya. you know this is the kind of our west the knife tea that we so elsewhere in the middle east in iraq for instance that finking that democratic elections can make a state first you need to have a state a real strong state strong institutions strong all of law and
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then and suddenly only after you can have. democratic elections elections do not create is table state just by the by my ocado miracle. so. it's probably needed of course to have elections but i don't think that number one and the conditions on the ground zero. exist for a electoral process where cities like free a lot susceptible to be intimidated and number two even if this election's held i don't think that it will make baith sells a strong state so it's it's just a half a in measure it's not i think that ok we hope that america will it's going
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to happen but i'm not sure that it will re-enter and i mean for the french president this is a in this toric moment but you know as many say the reality on the ground is quite differently if i have to for example recently said when he returned back how that he told people don't trust the internet the democratic institutions you have to ultimately trust the military is this something that could just give you an idea about what could happen next in the future. exactly and if we look at the meeting between set hours and after hosted by my client in july last year there are a lot of nice things said a lot of agreements made. on the ground nothing changed i think that will be a similar reality here alternately all of the parties in libya because it has an salamis plan everyone's expecting elections to happen at some point of view we now have a date but i think that have to smoke evasion here whether he wants to go for a presidential position or whether just to increase his power you know this is
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a great way to do it to go along with the idea that elections are happening but you know it's a very distant thing from agreeing to elections on a set date to actually implementing them putting all the prime frameworks in place having their security having the institutions in place and actually this could be a very good way for after all other actors to actually act as spoilers so you know that they have been set if those dates are not met then maybe they're so good excuse for after so our so well you know the framework hasn't worked now i'm going to come in and try a military approach to the country so i think yes we have to be quite skeptical of actually the implementation of this agreement and actually the motivation for some of the actors of kind of signing up and taking part in the summit today explain to us. the international community the u.s. and the friends implement the new framework i mean we're talking about elections the country is too politically divided there is a government in tripoli there's another government in the east there's a prime minister in tripoli and that is highly behalf. how can the libyans set
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aside those differences. ok let's let let's remember what the sense of them said in his briefing two weeks ago he told the security council two important things that amending the political agreement between the house of representatives in the east and the high state council and the west is dead that process is dead i participated in all the attempts in tunisia and we didn't get to any agreement the second thing he said that in his next briefing which would be in july he will let the council know whether we're going to go to a referendum on the constitution and then elections or we're going to go to some type of election presidential and or parliamentary elections. this meeting in paris we're going to go to elections so there's nothing really new about this the only
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thing is that was censored imus said in july he's going to let the security council know which way he's going to go this declaration says answered by september the these parties will decide how they're going to hold these elections and hopefully by the tenth of december we'll have elections these elections to be very difficult to conduct you cannot now run for example a presidential election i mean is half of going to be able to come to the west and run anybody that's supposed to have to can go to benghazi and run a campaign for president the south is completely out there is no credible force there to safeguard any election so conditions are very grave and as you guessed suggested elections are not a panacea there's a great debate about whether elections can for can create a state we tried elections three times now we tried them in two thousand and twelve
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we tried them in two thousand and thirty with the argument two thousand and fourteen and here we are running i mean against a backdrop of what someone has been saying about the grim reality a libya work could be the best move forward for the international community to bring about stability to libya. it's very difficult and i think it's quite important that first this conference because very neighborhood countries are there so they're very concerned you know. i'm in niger. but then it is very difficult and we should. probably agree on a framework or how you can. reinforce the state it will be very difficult because. the vision of libya about algeria is not of the
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same vision that the vision of libya egypt egypt through of star wants to get it to keep its influence see it in nato in the east of libya but i think that if we can have some kind of agreement between the different states that. we need a framework a common framework and the beginning of this framework would not to be elections actually it would be a real unifi a ship of the army i say and i think that yes and i think that we don't need all leaders i mean. you know after i's already quite auld and i think we need a new generation of officers to show up and after you have a real unified army may even be you can build
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a state and maybe you can all elections that will be significant that you would have a real not political meaning rayon and the unification of the security forces and the army in particular is a central issue for the international community but then again we're back to square one how can you unify and on me against the backdrop of the mistrust between the east and the west people in the west hate khalifa haftar people in the east have no trust in the political institutions in the west. yeah and i think this is one of the major challenges that libya is going to have to get past you know whether it's elections or we conciliation or whatever kind of political agreement you know comes out down the road having the source security institutions under control having the militias under civilian state control is one of the priorities you can't really have rule of law or any kind of stability without the kind of accountability that comes from having these state security structures under
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the control of a civilian state as you mentioned the egyptian led military reunification talks have been going on for last two months have had some success and they have managed to make some western and eastern elements i think that is a positive starting that saying that can be built upon it hasn't got some of the involvement of some of some of the western militias but equally we've seen within the west some of these militias that previously fought against each others in terms of arthur who are now starting to have some reconsideration at a local level as you said though that the real challenge at the moment is that sometimes libya can almost feel like two separate countries at the moment between east and west and really it's finding a way to bridge that gap. person not convince the elections at this moment is the way to do that because actually you might just find it ceding more division and actually each faction seeking power for their own. in their group rather than for the for the cookie but i think that something can be worked towards and i think there are some some good foundations to work on salahi have been involved in
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all the terms post two thousand and eleven to force unity and put it to the conflict in libya why is it impossible to reach that goal is it because of the very nature of the libyan society or is it because of regional interference. ok first if i may i want to address your guest's comment about first having to create an army i think this is just like he suggested that elections don't create a state an army at least our experience in the arab world and in the third world and army never creates a state it creates a new prison for the population does the history of the arab world have to her has always insisted that the military has to rule the country for a period of years to create stability is that what we want and besides we need
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security forces to secure the country but not necessarily an army not necessarily definitely not have to run his history in the in the area so what we need now is consensus political consensus what has delayed the these consensus and this solution is regional interference the egyptians the immoralities the saudis and the french the french got their soldiers killed fighting on the side of hazard they did that in benghazi last year the egyptians are bombing the hell out of libya everywhere every once in a while. every time there is a terrorist attack in egypt the immoralities have built a an airbase in marriage and they are supplying have to with with weapons that that's documented by the team of experts for the security council and every
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report so what we need to do is stop this interference regional interference in libya and there we may make some progress i mean when the. missile mccrone says that there is a need for unifying libyan institutions and at the same time. he brain then added you know. his chief of staff as two separate. delegations each would over thirteen members and they. enter osh and you're talking about unifying the legal institutions i see your point ron no the french president i'm unaware mccrone is clearly trying to inject new momentum into the french forming policy by trying to bring all the parties a libya to go shoot a settlement does he have the stature the leverage to convince key regional
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players who have been meddling into the affairs of libya to put an end to that meddling i think. he has. started to share the very hardworking knowledgeable. and well respected man in the in europe. in the us to live in russia the problem is that it's a very difficult task let's see if you have to for instance one of the fishes blacks. to not difficult for you to make its tissue soup from this acquired but if you want to trust for all the fish soup into and that cryo it will be much more difficult for you and it's exactly what happened when not stuck with you and frauds unfortunately in two thousand and eleven you started
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to meddle in the liver interval. and created it with the british and they thought this mess. they made efficient for an acquired so now you know as a french president not fulfil. it feels a bit responsible for the huge gulf that you have in libya to try to do something but it's not slow difficult whereas when you have that destroyed their case that it was very bad yes sure it was cruel and sore but that leaves the widest the at least there was security at least you could travel from tripoli to benghazi at night nothing nothing would happen to you ok just you could not punish but the western that fought in glutinous do not like. critical dictatorship and we can understand that but they forgot something that this father in in this part of the world of it
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was that. but it because dictatorship they say on iraqi face always worse than a nike there is civil war they just we just forgot that now it would be stream lee extremely difficult to build a new libya because at least got a he he he was you nineteen all this try as a matter of fact i think it will be only one when you have tonight all this all this ok. and we would have been that way and consider it just to do. libya has become a hub for human trafficking. broad to kill groups. warlords creating huge concerns for the region for the international community and for europe. no one seems to be willing to go. together and solve this problem yeah i mean obviously
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there we should mention as well of see this causes a huge problems for the libyans themselves as well but you know i mean these are really difficult issues to solve and part of the problem is you mentioned the migrants when with all the sort of smuggling of drugs and weapons and ideologies and extremist groups that goes on in the saddle region the problem is it's not just libya yes libya is a key part of that problem but actually to be able to solve the issues it needs help from lots of other countries it needs other countries that are bordering those two to help out and i think you know for example in libya that the south is a much forgotten region actually a lot of the so destabilizing impacts in terms of the smuggling routes and where some of the the weapons are you know seen a resurgence of isis recently where a lot of the migrants coming through is in the south of libya and you know they are really showing their forgotten in the political settlement in the security settlements and economically as well and i think that's the other thing that's key to to note in some of these situations they're not just security related they're
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not just political there's also an economic a strong economic element to all of these and actually that's becoming an engineering problem that actually to be able to destroy some of these kind of war economies actually to get rid of those vested interests is very difficult because there's a lot of people in libya and outside who actually are owning a lot of money from that the current chaos in the country and it becomes even more difficult then to to undermine those and rebuild. salam do you believe that the time is the still there for the libyans to unify the institutions the financial institutions build confidence and trust among themselves and try to internally come together and solve their problems do you think it's too late and that the only way out is international intervention in a way or another now we need international help to do this definitely but it's all for a wrong to lay the blame to the international community because what it did in two
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thousand and eleven what we are suffering now is due to forty two years of what total to tell italian regime that's not forget that the international committee interfered in two thousand and eleven and we thank them for that yes they failed in their follow up but didn't want to get involved in state building and so on but the blame squarely on get there if it's forty two years of one man rule and the situation we're in all thought it through to say that ok we'll either have to settle for a dictatorship or to carry a regime or the alternative is chaos no we refuse to acknowledge there we say that we have another way of doing it we deserve and we expect a democratic system i mean where we don't have to be condemned as arabs to either dictatorship or chaos as some think that somehow they are not deserving or they
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come out to handle it. smith thank you very much indeed for your contribution to the program today. and thank you too for watching you can see the program again and its time by visiting a website. discussing go to our facebook page facebook dot com for was last a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on today's story about the whole team here by phone now.
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