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tv   Frederik de Klerk  Al Jazeera  October 15, 2017 10:32pm-11:01pm AST

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hopes into this movement we will use all our strength and all of our fight to bring about change in this country i invite you to go on this path with us there is much to do to establish a new style new culture of politics in this country. the final assault has begun to reach out i still find to still holed up in pockets of northern syrian city over iraq u.s. backed syrian forces say almost all civilians and about two hundred seventy five i still fighters have left iraq under a deal that was brokered by tribal leaders to take. iraq's kurdish leadership has rejected baghdad's demand that it cancels the outcome of last month's secession referendum as a precondition for talks to resolve the dispute iraqi president ford mussulmen iraqi kurdish president massoud barzani met to discuss the military standoff between their forces in the disputed city of kirk. voting is underway in venezuela as all twenty three states elect a new governor as the original vote is the first since a new super body was created by president nicolas maduro that has powers to over
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rule opposition m.p.'s and amend the constitution. kenya's opposition leader raul a dingo has called on his supporters to continue protests despite a government ban on demonstrations it was addressing a rally in mumbai and we want to all this and all the election set for the twenty six top al jazeera is next he said. you. would see. the stages now he promised himself to get for the fewest countries apartheid system
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and its nuclear weapons program. those were the two major goals for drink the city for himself as he became south africa's president in one nine hundred eighty nine. after negotiations was nelson mandela apartheid was indeed dismantled but the people here still dealing with its aftermath half of the population live in poverty the fear of violence is in demick and the political leadership is constantly facing corruption allegations. today on talk to all dizzy about former president de klerk and what happened to the lofty goals of the one nine hundred eighty. s. . but we begin with nuclear weapons today as the world is dealing with north korea and looking for a way out it may be with remembering that south africa was the first country to
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voluntarily dismantle its nuclear bomb. we start by asking him what prompted his country to develop the weapons in the first place why did you need the bomb and did you really believe that one day you might have used that bomb and against whom i don't think we needed the ball. but some of my p.t. said it's just that i don't think it was everything to incent to use the bow they wanted to use it as a deterrent and to strengthen south africa's international position when i became at a fairly young age minister mineral and energy affairs i was informed about this cabinet never knew about our atom bombs being made at that un dabo so at the time it was
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a secret thing it would be only mean to me need to know basis people knew about even ministers even minister us but as minister of mooing energy affairs i had to know because helen dollar fell under me and then. the year when i knew him in the richmond plant fell under me so that to inform me at that point i decided quietly in my heart if ever i'm in a position to rid south africa of those bombs i would do so well who was your reaction first reaction when you learned when you were informed about this i mean were you shocked i was i was quite shocked although rumors were flying around in your mind internationally and in south africa but i was quite shocked to know that that we've started on that project when i became president six and a half of those bombs have been made. and one of the first things i did was to call
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that same group on the need to know basis together and said we're going to sign the n.p.t. . let's plan now we do it we're going to demolish those bombs and we're going to open up all our facilities for full inspection. and that is what we did south africa. was just about the only country that voluntarily gave up its nuclear weapons how do you think the world would. get countries like north korea and israel to give up the us i don't think there's any quick fix for that situation or a simple recipe what i do believe ynys a nuclear weapon free world are advocated and i have done so from many platforms in the past years those who have it
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legitimately in terms of international law and agreements need to be part of the solution the basis on which for instance the usa england france and russia where now to have it and continue to have it but others not has fallen away that was how the balance of power was at the end of the second world war that balance of power i have changed fundamentally so the starting point for a big review of the whole issue of. nuclear weapons lies in a new debate but not just a debate in a new round table discussion to review and revise existing agreements
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with a view to reach a new agreement which says all those who have legitimately and illegitimate will get rid of it in an organized methodical way which won't disturb the balance of power they need to reach a new agreement on d. nuclear. there has been speculation that south africa cooperated with is well on its nuclear weapons program. this is an allegation dick lick me that denies no confirms i really can't help feeling that you've got i know about the end of geisha means that there was close cooperation i was never part of such calls but i should and i never had information which justify such allegations. but in a recent interview with south africa's former intelligence minister randy
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casseroles told us he's will and south africa were close partners it helped south african apartheid create seven nuclear devices talk about they concern of the device from iran in terms of the safety they showed no no competence and no come said responsibility in terms of putting nuclear devices in the hands of an apartheid monster that was threatening the very lives of all the african people of this entire region i wasn't involved in anything like that and i have never been properly informed about anything like that so i can't take it for. there have also been reports that south african is will work together to test missiles capable of carrying nuclear weapons i'm not aware of any tests having mean done on south africa and so on. nuclear weapons yes i don't know to what
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extent is that i was involved but we did start to develop in the western cape. program. which never really fully got off the ground. it was built on the on the south coast of the western cape. while in our free zone. i know because i used it in the past that way which contained a boeing seven hundred seven and the like but not being involved i can't give any details information about that. the code word for the nuclear program was blamed on them as with the word that means the school or the final is a word that could also be used to capture the end of the apartheid system.
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when did you realize that it was time of linda and of the story for the whole apartheid system the regime itself that it was time for it to go i did not have a sudden moment when i had one night went to bed and thought separate development as we preferred united on to call apartheid is that i policy and the next morning i woke up and said it was all wrong and i eighty six i was convinced in my heart that we need to undertake far reaching and very fundamental steps to change this situation that process taught that that based on moral grounds or was it just for programmatic reasons that you realise that it was that there's no way there was no way to win that war and i think against the majority of the most of us it was a model. in the end i realized that the
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old system has failed to bring justice to all the people of south africa in my younger days i believe separate development nation states. some forming something like the european union a south african union could bring justice to everybody when i admitted to myself it has failed to do so i came to the conclusion one cannot continue with a policy which you knew leads to injustice to a majority of all the people in the country and therefore that we had to stop trying to make separate development apart take more acceptable self an ing a d n and softening it then we had to abandon the whole concept of the vision. and in its place put a new concept of inclusive it. and that was the vision which was developed within
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the national party in nineteen eighty six nine hundred eighty seven we then went to the white electorate in eighty seven was in the election asking for in broad terms every form mandate then i became a leader of the national party in one thousand nine hundred ninety i no longer had to look for a new vision i've already embraced a new vision of one united south africa with all south africans having a vote of equal value but a new south africa in which they would be known the racialism a new south africa in which no one group would be able to dominate and suppress another group a new south africa with
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a strong constitution which could prevent the misuse of power by any future government it is with that vision that i ended the presidency in one thousand nine . and i saw my challenge and accepted that chapman's that that vision needs to be implemented in practice within one of office within five years. when i first made the civil years ago he looked forward to a practice. today south africa is facing one political corruption scandal after another often involving the country's leadership. the fear of violence is widespread so is inappropriate and many poor blacks are still living in shantytowns what went wrong since the time we met when you were sold to this think about the future of south africa well let me start out by saying i'm very concerned
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about the present state of affairs but i haven't lost all my optimism i still believe that the damage which has been done in the past ten fifteen years can be the path it will take quite a number of yes but we have not been damaged beyond repair you ask what went wrong what doing to wrong is firstly that in the field of economic policy making we have diverted from very good well balanced economic policies which resulted in five percent even up to five percent and we'll go to in the early two thousand and the late ninety nine. and we have the stuff. and undermine investor confidence we no longer getting the
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new investments will be quiet to maintain economic growth without economic growth we can begin to address the problem of extremely high unemployment. what went wrong is. we had new political leadership in the passing of president zuma and under him corruption i flourished and cadence have been drawn together. in the teaching themselves a small elite are all being the state institutions like the electricity supply commission like the south african airways and other parastatals. in directly or not at your money through going up transactions and. sort of. procedures which are not being followed so
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bad leadership. has led us to a point where the president of the country has lost these credibility. with those who don't support the a.n.c. i think it has fully lost. but within the ruling party the african national congress there's been more than one motion of no confidence. in him from his own people the a.n.c. being torn apart by faction fighting at the moment and we don't have clear well balanced kind of bow and morally sound political leadership in south africa it's tragic but it might change.
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my political prism cook and now boiling in south africa that says an explosion can be avoided but only if the a.n.c. as we know it is radically changed. what i think will happen is the a.n.c. will split because you have in the same party through red communists. you have people committed to free enterprise and you have people with totally different ideological and policy principles in which they believe too many contradictions within the same party absolutely and that cannot last so i see how we talk like us and i think that will be healthy for self and within the end within the a.n.c. itself apart from the communist party apart from core sort of so when that
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split us it will put south africa in the position that it can normalize its politics away from the racially based polity. dogs principle but he says for politics away from ethnically diverse in politics dogs policy driven politics where people who believe in the same things irrespective of racial color can take cans and work together because they believe in the same things it will be around for a ride to get to that point quite a rough ride here but i believe that is when we will be break through to come a want us and we in south africa will get on course again to fulfill its tremendous potential how do you interpret you know things like black life matters black lives matter in the united states and are we seeing the same thing in south africa
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differently well racism is a problem in south africa it didn't disappear with the agreements which we reached and with our new constitution which is committed to normal racialism it exists on all sides there's white racism and there is black racism. and in that sense of the word yes it's a problem like it is you know america still. but like it is in europe and other parts of the world too and racism is not unique it just manifests itself in a different way in different countries south africa. copied many ideas from the united states after the end of the racism system like the affirmative action when do you think we would see an end to
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these code. system based on color and based on race when are we coming to see employment employing. somebody just for the me fact that he or she a good solution let me first say the ease a need and a room for affirmative action and black economic empowerment in south africa that need is acknowledged in the constitution which we need go sherrington and the constitution as it stands at the moment says a balance need to be struck between merit education training experience on the one hand and the issue of black economic empowerment and black affirmative action. that balance has not been struck in south africa why
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because the powers that be are developing policies which says it expect of man it blacks must be appointed and the seven percent each in their reach it way in each state department must be achieved even though properly trained available people from a particular group are not available. if a country has only so many engineers let's say sixty percent of the engineers are white and forty percent of qana. then you can say seventy five percent of the jobs must be for engineers of color on it only twenty five percent of all whites they aren't sufficient literary and people of color to full the posts so in an unbalanced way affirmative action has led
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to that service the liberty has led to bad management has led to losses has led to. mal administration of budgets not because the people involved are people of color but because they haven't been turned sufficiently for that job so that's not a point that do they not specialists but they are put into specialist positions we can just carry on and carry on for ever on that basis there needs to be an organized in the meantime we are experiencing a brain drain not only of white south africans emigrating but also black and colored and indian and south africans emigrate because they feel that they are not given sufficient opportunity within the economy and the industry of south africa
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itself being a president and commander in chief certain operations both military and intelligence have to be authorized from use what with the the toughest and the most painful places that you had to authorize yet you had to you did authorize them well the saddest one was i had from both the defense force and the police it a few to bow evidence according to them. that house in the old town sky since sky was being used as a cache and that arms from that house have been used in deeds of terror on the basis of that evidence i wanted to cross border offensive to clear up that house but i said it must go and in and with minimum
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violence and we must prevent people being killed if at all possible what you said this was around about ninety ninety two i can't remember there exactly. and what happened they went in they killed some youths who were there were trained soldiers. and to this day people are holding it against me i did it on the basis of objective evidence and it is the project which went totally wrong i apologize for it and we saw it to eat that there were some. that the families of the people were somehow or another helped along. but i in my time we started with their owing from where we were. we started demilitarizing the whole situation in south africa
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in my time i wasn't involved in major operations outside to inside our borders which i had to authorize i had to normalize their own of police and normalize not only of the army in no longer playing a political role whatsoever but in just doing what their main tasks are the police to protect all south africans. their safety and their property and their security me to protect our borders and to assist wherever necessary in my job but i welcome to home life when you were president i could fall asleep wake up the next morning fresh for the new challenges but what did get me up now and then was the great that he sponsibility and realize ation that in many big
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issues there are no easy choices and that whatever choices you make will also have a thought from boston to of consequence some negative consequence and one needs to live with that the president thank you so much for talking to all this you up. with.
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us. the nature of news as it breaks recall intended and unintended way. our quick. poll during the hurricane with detailed coverage this is what remains of what you can find read by the nigerian army hundreds like these have been just for in the past few months from around the world there are also hundreds of thousands of arabs that have arrived here in recent years freeing rice or they feel very let down by the baghdad government. by provocative oh is it a listen when they're online we were in hurricane winds full almost like thirty six
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hours these are the things that has to address or if you join us on set i'm a member of a complex one but we struck up a relationship this is a dialogue tweet us with hostile a.j. stream and one of your pitches might make the next show join the global conversation at this time on al-jazeera al-jazeera is a very important force of information for many people around the world when all the cameras have gone i'm still here go into areas that nobody else is going talk to people that nobody else is talking to and bringing that story to the forefront. hello there in london the top stories on al-jazeera a massive bomb attack in the center somalia's capital on saturday is now reported
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to have killed more than two hundred people.


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